PS3 EE Chip removal gives way to quality rerendering PS2 Titles (Possiblity)

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blueaurora

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Given the recent news of the Emotion chip being removed from playstation 3's and going with a full software emulation they no longer have the excuse that hardware makes it unable to up the resolution of Ps2 titles. They have admitted to upconverting ps1 titles but discounted the possibilities of ps2 upconverts due to the EE chip.

There is a compatibility issue to be dealt with for sure but their is a gray area here that could be exploited that could sell a ton of ps3s alone. The emulation team would have a heck of a time encoding it but hey at this point why not. They need a leg up above the competition.

Just a thought.
 
Displaying an upconverted image yes. The emotion engine chip only renders what it was meant to render and then the ps3 upconverts the image produced. I am talking about native rendering of the polygons at 720 or 1080. Textures would look the same just more defined lines.

(The only point I was making is they could get rid of the jaggies!)
 
[quote name='refusedchaos']i have it on and it still see jaggies[/QUOTE]

True, but its less noticeable than before.
 
yeah, the smoothing needs to be improved.


the good thing is they plan to make upscaling "30-40%" better. whatever that may mean.
 
[quote name='refusedchaos']i have it on and it still see jaggies[/quote]

It generally depends on the game... some look really great, some don't seem to be helped by it very much....
 
i was playing a smackdown game a little while ago and i cant tell if it looks better or not... i have upscaling set to full and smoothing on but the game still looks a little blurry and jaggy-rific..

does the ps3 not stretch the image.. i noticed that there were black bars on the left/right side of the screen.
 
Not the black bars again.........

Anyway, the OP is talking about rendering in a higher resolution rather than upscaling. (you should change the title)

Might be possible with software emulation, the engineers talked about it.
 
Its not possible because you can't go higher than the source material. If that amount of detail is not there on the disc then its not there for you to see. The best you will get is upscaling so just be happy with what you got.
 
[quote name='Purkeynator']Its not possible because you can't go higher than the source material. If that amount of detail is not there on the disc then its not there for you to see. The best you will get is upscaling so just be happy with what you got.[/quote]No, you CAN render in higher resolutions.

PS1 games do that on PS3 now, as well as PSX emulators on PCs for years.

It's like changing the resolution on a PC game.
 
Yeah I know that. I am saying there is not going to be anything better than the current upscaling the PS3 will do. You can output a 640x480 game at 1920x1080 but it "guesses" or "fakes" those extra pixels, there is nothing the system can do about missing information. If you want a true 1920x1080 game you have to get a PS3 game.
 
When connecting polygon A and B they make a point. If rendered at higher resolutions the connection point is less noticeable. This is similar to old arguments at running 2 - 16x AA vs. just running it at a higher resolution. Running at a higher resolution would help in this area but not to the effect off supersampling or something to that effect.

I am glad dallow sees what I am talking about. That was getting frustraighting for a minute there. It is possible. Native rendering at a higher resolution in conjunction with smoothing could make a very noticable impact. As said earlier it wouldnt make them look any higher quality as textures can't be changed.

The possibility exists.
 
If they did do emulation, wouldn't they have to individually emulate each game like the 360? If that's the case, I think I'll keep my PS2 until they clear things up.
 
If you're worried about owning a PS3 with the EE preventing you from accessing software emulation, don't worry about it. Sony will probably either disable the EE completely or give you an option to switch between EE and Software emulation in the future with a firmware update.
 
I agree with the OP, if you play backwards compatible games on the 360 you'll see just how great software emulation can make games look. It it still upscaling, but it's upscaling at the original source instead of rendering the game at 480i/480p and then re-rendering it at a higher resolution with crappy "smoothing" added on later.

[quote name='Vinny']If they did do emulation, wouldn't they have to individually emulate each game like the 360? If that's the case, I think I'll keep my PS2 until they clear things up.[/QUOTE]

The PS2 is far less powerful than the XBox and therefore much easier to emulate. If you check the European PS3 backwards compatibility list (which has always been software only) you'll see they already have around 75% of PS2 games working.

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/
 
Looks like the "end of the world" cries for BC (backwards compatability) when the EE removal announcement was made were bogus. 75% of a huge library is a good number, and it looks like Sony's BC team wasn't just sitting around.

Has anyone here played games with software emulation? I'd love to see screenshots to see if software emulation is still rendering at the original resolution and scaling up, or rending at a higher resolution.
 
The 75% number was well known during the "end of the world" cries-- the problem is if stuff you want to play (specific niche titles or the like that may never get proper BC) is in that 25%, you're out of luck.

I think of it this way-- when the 80GB units come out in the US, they'll be missing the EE and they'll never be able to get it. The 60GB units have everything the 80GB units do (except 20GB more on the HD). The 80GB is missing stuff. If the software emulator becomes THAT good that it delivers on all the promises of this thread, Sony can make it available to 60GB owners (and/or 60GB owners will need to demand it) - but they can never make the EE (and 99%+ish compatibility) available to 80GB owners.
 
Yeah but as a 360 owner I can tell you software emulation can also be crappy. Many XBox games on the backwards compatibility list have major bugs or are almost unplayable at one time or another. I would much rather have hardware emulation. I may not get 1080i or every game, but I know every game will run as smooth on PS3 as it did on PS2.
 
I too understand what you're saying, but you still can't get past the original textures. Granted, they may be able to smooth them a little better, but the original Tekken will still look like shit because it wasn't designed to be played on as powerful a system.
 
Just thought I'd bump this topic to ask if anyone else has heard about software rendering at higher resolutions. I'm just about to get a PS3 and I'll be going through a bunch of PS2 games I missed. If such a feature were added soon, it'd be great for me.
 
If they're ever going to release such a feature I'm willing to bet it'd be part of a firmware upgrade and thus, every PS3 that downloads the firmware would receive it.

In a related note, today I played the original Gran Turismo. It was so fugly my eyes bled. That and I couldn't get the stupid PS3 to continually recognize analog control within the game.
 
[quote name='Halo05']If they're ever going to release such a feature I'm willing to bet it'd be part of a firmware upgrade and thus, every PS3 that downloads the firmware would receive it.

In a related note, today I played the original Gran Turismo. It was so fugly my eyes bled. That and I couldn't get the stupid PS3 to continually recognize analog control within the game.[/QUOTE]You press the PS button and switch to analog mode. You gotta do that for PS1 games that support analog.
 
I did, it switched itself off after I left the options menu and went racing. I'll try it again today but I think it might just be an issue with GT.
 
[quote name='Justin42'] The 60GB units have everything the 80GB units do (except 20GB more on the HD). The 80GB is missing stuff. If the software emulator becomes THAT good that it delivers on all the promises of this thread, Sony can make it available to 60GB owners (and/or 60GB owners will need to demand it) - but they can never make the EE (and 99%+ish compatibility) available to 80GB owners.[/QUOTE]
Just to make certain, is it correct to say that all 60GB units released in NA since launch have the EE? Hence, if I'm shopping for a PS3 in the States and I want to make certain the EE is there, all I need to worry about it that I'm getting one of the 60GB models?
 
Sony has said all US 60GB models have the EE.

Your decision is whether or not you trust Sony. But since the compatibility list hasn't been updated (yet) to show any changes (and the 80gb isn't quite out) and it appears there is a disclaimer on the 80gb box, it appears to be the case.
 
As far as the 360 emulating original xbox games goes- Microsoft did not go for upping the resolution they are just wanting to make it work. As we all well know XBOX emulation isn't something Microsoft even really cares/cared about in the first place. It costs a lot of money to develop a maintain.

The original XBOX is easier to emulate than a PS2 as the CPU the games are coded for a X86 cpu. That is the bread and butter of all computing. PS3's EE chip and its general processing units were not as straight forward and standardized as the XBOX's P3 architecture. Sony just has a higher rate of compatible games in Europe because they knew their release titles were not strong enough to gain a foothold early and most likely sunk a lot of money into emulation.

Sony would have to work pretty hard to pull it off but if they had quality programmers that were assigned the task to do it then they could do it. This again would be a trump card no one could ever match but be extremely expensive.

It was mentioned above that the firmware update would be for all PS3's whether it has a EE chip or not. I disagree with that comment. While they could code to give you the option to turn your EE chip off they still have to engineer a separate update to non-EE PS3's. So they could enable the higher resolution rendering but not using the EE chip and going all software. It wouldn't be difficult but it would just take a few more days to produce.

My whole initial comment was geared to point out they are more inclined to do such a thing. They save money with the consoles chip removal and can have an excuse to put that money into improving emulation and rerendering at the higher resolutions we all want.

With the bible thumping awesomeness that is the Cell chip they can part the red sea- this should be like chewing gum to it! :lol:
 
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