Purchasing a Videogame store: What would make you want to come to my place?

[quote name='MichiganGamer']Hi,

I am a software developer with my own company and I was thinking of developing a flash based, very cool looking application that video store owners such as yourself could embed in your store website and it would allow for the following:

1) FOR GAMERS:
-complete out of the box social networking site for gamers to chat, search for gamers in their area by genre, zip code, blog, write articles, etc.



2) FOR STORE OWNERS

- ability to add/remove/edit info on events
- ability to add/remove/edit info on tournaments
-ability to add/remove/edit info on specials/contests
- ability to add/remove/edit a "video game release calendar" by platform and/or by wishlist
- using this site, store owners would gain deep insight into what games their customers carry and/or want and the store owner can offer trade ins based on what their customer has or wants - so you can create special offers targeted to each customer by a drag and drop front end that will create a custom email to send to your customers to bring in their trade ins and receive newer games or $$....this is something no store owner has today - visibility into buying patterns and what their customers want and my product would give that to you
- ability to get detailed reports, one of which would be on each of their customers and who has what games, wants which games, etc.

I was thinking of offering this service to store owners for a monthly fee. So for everything I wrote there, except the last 2 points, I would charge them $29/month. If they wanted the ability to get detailed reports and see which customer has what games, I would charge them $49/month.

Basically, this is an out of the box social networking site for gamers and for store owners to get detailed views of their customers, their buying patterns, and also offer them customized deals that they can't get by selling their warez on CraigsList for example...and you get all this without having to code this yourself or anything and best of all it's customized to gamers and the gaming community. Your customers get to be part of a social networking site that pays them to play games online, participate with others online for points and exchange those for $1 off or whatever that $ amount might be and do much more to bring traffic to your site. To get an idea of what the front end would look like, please visit www.doof.com - this is how I would build out the front end in flash.

I wanted your thoughts on the following:

1) as a store owner, what else would be interesting from a store owner's perspective - what other things would make you want to subscribe to this product ? what features aside from the ones I mentioned would be useful for your daily business? what kinds of reports or features to gain more insight into customers?

2) to get that level of insight into your customer and offer out of the box services to your customers and not have to maintain the software, upgrades, etc and yet get new features added often and allow your customers the ability to know about contests, tournaments etc all from a convenient back end admin module would you be willing to pay $50/month if it brought traffic to your site and gave you the detailed insight?

3) from the gaming community, I would be curious to know what else would you want in the social networking site? what features would make you want to join and participate?

Please let me know.[/QUOTE]

Looks very interesting but I would need to view what the final version would look like. The website stuff is an odd variable because it is hard to say how many people would be invested into this system. I think though it would be better if multiple stores had this connected instead of just a single store. The reason is that having it in place to bring on people who may not have a PNT store near them or as we expand to communicate with other stores will help. I will PM you about some ideas.

The online games thing may be interesting to open up very light casual gamers to games. But thanks for the information.
 
[quote name='rlse9']This might have been mentioned somewhere in the 38 pages of this thread but I'll just mention it in case someone didn't. You just mentioned that you clean all of the used discs before selling them. I read, I believe on a different message board, that someone would occasionally bring their scratched up games to Blockbuster and for a couple dollars they'd use their cleaning/repairing machine to return the game to working condition. Offering a service like that would be a good idea, not that you'd make tons of money from it but it would get people in the store and give people another reason to shop at your store over a Gamestop.[/QUOTE]

Yeah this is actually a service we provide, but I think there is an issue with cleaning Blu-Ray disc currently, but I doubt many of them are too scratched. Alot of the time we can offer this as part of a bundle or coupons to offer free disc cleaning to bring people into the store.
 
I don't think games are being hit by the economy, if anything, the games industry is growing. It seems to be the one thing people are spending money on, while cutting back on everything else. As people stay home more, they game more, hahaha! Obviously the economic crunch will mean people looking for cheaper games and used games instead of buying all new games on release date, which should bring more business to your store. Also probably more hand-me-down systems from family to family or child to child which means people will be looking for those older N64 and PS1 games which Gamestop does not stock anymore. Not everyone wants to shop on ebay for older games, which seems to be the only source of them for me since there are no stores here that sell them. Ebay is quickly gaining a reputation as being scammer heaven. Families are not going to visit shady pawn shops either.

It can be much more cost effective for a middle class family, especially one with young kids that don't care what games they are playing as long as they get to play to use a hand me down or older generation system even if they have to pay a little more than collectors like to pay for the games. People will also want to trade in their old systems towards an upgrade instead of just throwing them away or being told they are worthless by gamestop, yup some people believe that a system is worthless if gamestop does not take it. Then they can purchase a current generation system and everything they need to start playing for less than if they were to purchase everything new. Gamestop doesn't offer this service in full because they don't take every system available for trade.

I don't like the idea of having different "themed" stores, because as you stated you don't know what the gaming demographic of your area is. The FPS model will turn off families, which are lucrative spenders. You will have families in pretty much every area I think. If you had a RPG/Japanese model here, you wouldn't do very well because those types of games don't sell around where I live (I know because I can find them on the shelves when they are gone in many other areas). I also see what people buy at these stores, and its not JRPG's. An urban or FPS themed store would probably do very well here, but you would still turn off some customers. You would manage to turn off some customers no matter what if you were theming a store to a particular type or genre of game. The gaming industry is one of hot opinions and lots of fanboyism.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']I don't think games are being hit by the economy, if anything, the games industry is growing. It seems to be the one thing people are spending money on, while cutting back on everything else. As people stay home more, they game more, hahaha! Obviously the economic crunch will mean people looking for cheaper games and used games instead of buying all new games on release date, which should bring more business to your store. Also probably more hand-me-down systems from family to family or child to child which means people will be looking for those older N64 and PS1 games which Gamestop does not stock anymore. Not everyone wants to shop on ebay for older games, which seems to be the only source of them for me since there are no stores here that sell them. Ebay is quickly gaining a reputation as being scammer heaven. Families are not going to visit shady pawn shops either.

It can be much more cost effective for a middle class family, especially one with young kids that don't care what games they are playing as long as they get to play to use a hand me down or older generation system even if they have to pay a little more than collectors like to pay for the games. People will also want to trade in their old systems towards an upgrade instead of just throwing them away or being told they are worthless by gamestop, yup some people believe that a system is worthless if gamestop does not take it. Then they can purchase a current generation system and everything they need to start playing for less than if they were to purchase everything new. Gamestop doesn't offer this service in full because they don't take every system available for trade.

I don't like the idea of having different "themed" stores, because as you stated you don't know what the gaming demographic of your area is. The FPS model will turn off families, which are lucrative spenders. You will have families in pretty much every area I think. If you had a RPG/Japanese model here, you wouldn't do very well because those types of games don't sell around where I live (I know because I can find them on the shelves when they are gone in many other areas). I also see what people buy at these stores, and its not JRPG's. An urban or FPS themed store would probably do very well here, but you would still turn off some customers. You would manage to turn off some customers no matter what if you were theming a store to a particular type or genre of game. The gaming industry is one of hot opinions and lots of fanboyism.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but it is also trying to get people into the store because it is not a big brand name, so I have to work on that aspect of making people know that these older systems and games are still alive.

Those game store concepts are from another videogame franchise. I do think it is possible to do something like that as a one off but harder as a franchise. I do think it is possible to do a kid and family geared videogame store but it would have to be done exactly right. Toy stores are not suriving and I used to work at Toys R Us and I always thought they could to a side store just for videogames. Problem is that kids get older so you would tend to loose your customers as they age and not think the store is cool.

Thats why you want a really great blend for young and old. Typically if you have a cool looking store everyone wants in, old or young.
 
Cellphones, Ipods and other electronics are just outpacing the toy industry. Kids have to have these because all their friends do, and this cuts into the toy budget, or in some cases eliminates it completely. Then when kids get these things they no longer want toys, and this is happening at younger and younger ages, I have seen cell phones advertised for ages 5-12. My cousin got an Ipod for her 8th birthday, so no toys were purchased there. Kindergarteners see their older siblings with MP3 players and they want them too, so then they are purchased instead of purchasing toys. Parents also have to pay for systems, games and music subscription plans and cell phone plans, all of this cuts into the toy budget. Toys are salable to very young kids and babies who aren't yet into this though. It basically boils down to the fact that kids are growing out of toys earlier and faster than ever before, and graduating to electronics instead of toys.

The toy market is trying but from what I have seen all the stuff in the toy department is just an inferior version of electronics that are out, your better off just buying the real thing for your kid. They are trying to make video game systems such as hyperscan and miuchiz but these are failed concepts at best and they just don't sell to very many people because everyone buys a nintendo ds or another real system. There are stacks of hyperscan systems on the shelves now here, unsold. Every time I see kids and parents shopping for toys the parents are trying to encourage the kids to buy video games that they will actually play instead of a toy they want but will stop playing with in 5 min. Perhaps the toys of today aren't as fun as older toys?

I remember when EBgames had the EBkids branch, there was one of these stores here, and they stocked things like pokemon games, and other games that kids would want, plus electronics geared towards kids. I don't think it did so well because the store closed in a short period of time. It was also directly across from an EBgames store, so they just decided to go with the one store instead of 2.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']Cellphones, Ipods and other electronics are just outpacing the toy industry. Kids have to have these because all their friends do, and this cuts into the toy budget, or in some cases eliminates it completely. Then when kids get these things they no longer want toys, and this is happening at younger and younger ages, I have seen cell phones advertised for ages 5-12. My cousin got an Ipod for her 8th birthday, so no toys were purchased there. Kindergarteners see their older siblings with MP3 players and they want them too, so then they are purchased instead of purchasing toys. Parents also have to pay for systems, games and music subscription plans and cell phone plans, all of this cuts into the toy budget. Toys are salable to very young kids and babies who aren't yet into this though. It basically boils down to the fact that kids are growing out of toys earlier and faster than ever before, and graduating to electronics instead of toys.

The toy market is trying but from what I have seen all the stuff in the toy department is just an inferior version of electronics that are out, your better off just buying the real thing for your kid. They are trying to make video game systems such as hyperscan and miuchiz but these are failed concepts at best and they just don't sell to very many people because everyone buys a nintendo ds or another real system. There are stacks of hyperscan systems on the shelves now here, unsold. Every time I see kids and parents shopping for toys the parents are trying to encourage the kids to buy video games that they will actually play instead of a toy they want but will stop playing with in 5 min. Perhaps the toys of today aren't as fun as older toys?

I remember when EBgames had the EBkids branch, there was one of these stores here, and they stocked things like pokemon games, and other games that kids would want, plus electronics geared towards kids. I don't think it did so well because the store closed in a short period of time. It was also directly across from an EBgames store, so they just decided to go with the one store instead of 2.[/QUOTE]

The odd thing is that while kids are loosing interest, collectors that tend to be older are craving these things. Problem is that these tend to cost alot more then they should. I myself have been collecting alot of figures, more so than when I was a kid. There is this sort of retro feeling when you see a GI Joe or in my case Marvel or other comic book figures. Its sort of sad that I don't really think that alot of these kids will really get the same feeling when they grow up. There are a few cartoons out there that are pretty good but in the 80's it was about the cartoon and toy package. Getting your HE-MAN figure while watching Masters of the Universe was something special.

We will have to wait and see.
 
I know, I see many more older people in the action figure aisle at the stores than the kids picking through the figures to add to their collection. Lots of adults go to TRU for the figures only. Ive sold a few figures on ebay, and they always sell quite well. There is definitely a market for these, but they are becoming more of an old-school retro feeling collectors toy rather than something that children play with and create scenarios with.

We can go back and collect the things from our youth but you are right, I don't think the kids of today will be able to. Much of the stuff will be obsolete, either that or dead and non-functional. The Wii ain't gonna be around in 20-30 years, even if it is much of the online functionality will be gone. Much of the stuff kids play with today is based entirely on online worlds, such as the wildly popular webkinz, theres no way they will be able to go back to that in 20-30 years because it will just be gone or so radically changed that they won't care. Whereas there are still Apple II's and other older computers and if you hook them up they are still able to play the disc based games I grew up with. Sure they could collect the stuffed animals again but without the online world they are pretty meaningless. Todays game systems aren't lasting 20 years like the older ones did. My NES will probably outlast me, and it was a hand-me-down system from a yard sale.
 
[quote name='SaraAB']I know, I see many more older people in the action figure aisle at the stores than the kids picking through the figures to add to their collection. Lots of adults go to TRU for the figures only. Ive sold a few figures on ebay, and they always sell quite well. There is definitely a market for these, but they are becoming more of an old-school retro feeling collectors toy rather than something that children play with and create scenarios with.

We can go back and collect the things from our youth but you are right, I don't think the kids of today will be able to. Much of the stuff will be obsolete, either that or dead and non-functional. The Wii ain't gonna be around in 20-30 years, even if it is much of the online functionality will be gone. Much of the stuff kids play with today is based entirely on online worlds, such as the wildly popular webkinz, theres no way they will be able to go back to that in 20-30 years because it will just be gone or so radically changed that they won't care. Whereas there are still Apple II's and other older computers and if you hook them up they are still able to play the disc based games I grew up with. Sure they could collect the stuffed animals again but without the online world they are pretty meaningless. Todays game systems aren't lasting 20 years like the older ones did. My NES will probably outlast me, and it was a hand-me-down system from a yard sale.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but then again, Videogames may be slightly different. We don't really know what the culture will be like for them when they are our age because they may be looking back on the Playstation as we look back on the NES. Crash might be their Mario.
 
BTW on this topic, we mentioned it before but we can carry action figures based on videogame characters through a vendor. I noticed a few Resident Evil and Assassins Creed figures but honestly do not know how well they would actually sell. Might actually be too nich for the market.
 
Hey everyone, just got a quick update. We will be getting our loan money on Wednesday, been a long time due and a long process but I feel very good about the future of the store. While it may have taken a very long time to get to this point, I feel it has only made us stronger.
 
[quote name='Flyersfan']Congrats man.[/QUOTE]

Thanks :)

We have already started to build up our inventory. I have purchased 6 Rock Band sets (3 for Xbox 360 & 3 for PS3) and a Wii. We hope to have a health amount of Wii's when we do open up. These things are heavily allocated and hard to get through a vendor so we are actually buying them from big box stores if we can. Kinda of exciting though because this is just the beginning.

The one thing that will come as a major shock is ordering new software. You can't just order games you think would sell right away because you want a nice variety. I do have in mind though not to order alot of "old" current gen games. The reason behind this is that I may get these used in stock. But you do want a healthy amount of games, especially after my initial experience with a PNT on their first day. You want to have the game in stock for the customer, even if you have to go down the street and buy it.

Right now as it is looking, I hope to be opened by July 4th which shouldn't be a problem. This will give us enough time to plan for a grand opening which would be in time for Madden 2009 for a big tournament and would be a good time to build up excitement for the store and the upcoming football season.
 
We have finally signed the loan, officially the deal is done and we can move forward with the build out. It has been almost a year or maybe more since I started this process so it takes alot longer than I thought, but hopefully that will help alot of people understand the process.

Look forward to supply pictures of the buildout and opening.

Thanks to everyone for their comments and support.
 
Congratulations. I can't wait to hear about the actual managing of a good game store. I can tell from reading this(for months) that you have put a TON of work into it, and I really hope things keep going your way. Well done.
 
[quote name='hufferstl']Congratulations. I can't wait to hear about the actual managing of a good game store. I can tell from reading this(for months) that you have put a TON of work into it, and I really hope things keep going your way. Well done.[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

I hope that maybe this will inspire more people to possibly open their own store. I was surprised when I started to get questions and PM about that. Its about time as gamers have been getting older and now we have the opportunity to create a better experience for all videogamers rather than the one we have become accustomed to. It takes alot of work, but I would bet that for many people one of their dream jobs would be to work in a videogame store... besides alot of people that work at Gamestop. ;)

I think having a new voice in the market will only help gamers, we have seen Gamestop swallow alot of different stores including EB Games and we all suffered. Lack of competition hurts the industry. Only thing I think they need is an online store front, just as a way to help customers because I am not really sure there are a ton of sales online or thats what they want, but Gamestop has that and so do a ton of other stores.
 
Hello everyone,

It has been a somewhat interesting weekend. There has been a lot of backlash against PNT Corporate recently that started with the handling of GTA IV and Mario Kart Wii. Both launches did not go over smoothly due to not having the product and additional shipping charges for Mario Kart Wii.

Honestly, this is the first time that I have been worried about the future of PNT because I have not seen a mass amount of venting of frustration from other store owners. I am hoping that all this venting will bring out a positive with the company. I still believe in the Play N Trade brand and feel it is the best route in owning a videogame store.

I thought I would share this to be fair and balance because there may be a people that think I work for Play N Trade. I do not. Most of the problems listed from franchise owners do not directly effect customers but the bottom line in making every store profitable and run successfully. We have all noticed a number of post of stores closing do to a variety of reasons. It is quite possible that they could have been helped better by corporate.

All this talk has made me reconsider purchasing a new car for a car wrap to promote my store. Instead I will use that money to build up my working capital and any unknown future expenses. Possibly down the road I will do this because I do feel that there is an extreme positive with it, but right now for just opening up, might not be the best thing.

Also I pretty much wiped my Xbox Live friends list clean other than a few people here and there. So I need new friends! If anyone wants to add me, my gamer tag is bingbangboom

Thanks :)
 
Hey, I have read most of this post and found a lot of interesting information.

However, I had some questions:

1.) I was wondering how you are looking at cash flow.

2.) How many employees are you looking to hire. Wages. Full-time? Part-time?

3.) Do you know or have any information about being an Area Controller. Mainly, how much is the initial fee?

4.) Kind of a continuation of #1 And I know you say that the majority of money comes from used games. But how much will you pay for new inventory? For example GTA4. Sells for say $60 but your cost is??

5.) I guess to just wrap this up neatly, I feel that in order to start any basis you have to have some projections on cash flow and compare that to things like lease, salaries, utilities, royalties, ect. How did you base your cash flow projections. I have heard (through random sites) that PnT is not very out going with these items nor do they even give out average store gross sales for stores. They simply state that each store is different and blablabla. I read here that a GS will do 1.1 mil to 900k a year in gross sales, but what are there yearly expenses? What is their profit margin. Surely this info must be out there as I doubt anyone is going into this blind.

I know you are not open yet, but any help here would be great.

6.) Also, have you hoped for the best and prepared for the worst? And what I mean here is, what happens if your business fails? I imagine you can sublease your space. I also imagine that you can sell back your inventory and monitoring systems to PnT? Basically, I am wondering, if all does not go well, I assume that you can recover some of your initial start-up costs through returning inventory and such

Not trying to be negative in anyway, but as I have looked into several business opportunities, these are some of the things come up and I have seen little information on this from PnT.

Thanks again for any info!!

Hope all is going well!!!
 
Something else I wanted to mention:

1.) My partner and I are looking at 2 main areas, both right by (same mall area) on a Best Buy.

Now some may think this is a bad idea, but as I hear you say, trade-ins are the #1 way to make money in the PnT area, so it's not such a bad thing if people buy their games at BB and trade them into me. Then with great customer satisfaction I can turn these trade-in customers into my customers.

What do you think?

Also, what do you feel is better location wise. In a mall with GS or in a surrounding mall just out side the main mall complex but by the BB, but still on the main mall property. Keep in mind, the rent inside the mall is 2x as much.

Thanks again!!!
 
[quote name='CKISSM']Something else I wanted to mention:

1.) My partner and I are looking at 2 main areas, both right by (same mall area) on a Best Buy.

Now some may think this is a bad idea, but as I hear you say, trade-ins are the #1 way to make money in the PnT area, so it's not such a bad thing if people buy their games at BB and trade them into me. Then with great customer satisfaction I can turn these trade-in customers into my customers.

What do you think?

Also, what do you feel is better location wise. In a mall with GS or in a surrounding mall just out side the main mall complex but by the BB, but still on the main mall property. Keep in mind, the rent inside the mall is 2x as much.

Thanks again!!![/quote]

Mall rent will kill you and honestly, going in near a GS just doesn't sound like a great idea, especially with so many around. Best Buy wouldn't have much of an affect on your used game sales, which is where you make your money. People are going to preorder there and at GS though. At my old store we used to try and undercut the corps by $5 or $10 dollars on new games, which means making jack shit on them, but obviously your used sales would have to offset that.
 
[quote name='CKISSM']Hey, I have read most of this post and found a lot of interesting information.

However, I had some questions:

1.) I was wondering how you are looking at cash flow.

2.) How many employees are you looking to hire. Wages. Full-time? Part-time?

3.) Do you know or have any information about being an Area Controller. Mainly, how much is the initial fee?

4.) Kind of a continuation of #1 And I know you say that the majority of money comes from used games. But how much will you pay for new inventory? For example GTA4. Sells for say $60 but your cost is??

5.) I guess to just wrap this up neatly, I feel that in order to start any basis you have to have some projections on cash flow and compare that to things like lease, salaries, utilities, royalties, ect. How did you base your cash flow projections. I have heard (through random sites) that PnT is not very out going with these items nor do they even give out average store gross sales for stores. They simply state that each store is different and blablabla. I read here that a GS will do 1.1 mil to 900k a year in gross sales, but what are there yearly expenses? What is their profit margin. Surely this info must be out there as I doubt anyone is going into this blind.

I know you are not open yet, but any help here would be great.

6.) Also, have you hoped for the best and prepared for the worst? And what I mean here is, what happens if your business fails? I imagine you can sublease your space. I also imagine that you can sell back your inventory and monitoring systems to PnT? Basically, I am wondering, if all does not go well, I assume that you can recover some of your initial start-up costs through returning inventory and such

Not trying to be negative in anyway, but as I have looked into several business opportunities, these are some of the things come up and I have seen little information on this from PnT.

Thanks again for any info!!

Hope all is going well!!![/quote]

Uh, I don't know about PnT, but I can tell you that usually when you get that inventory, you're stuck with it. Most distributors have a short time period to return stuff. I would assume PnT is like most franchises, you pay your royalty fees (typically for nothing other than the name :p ) and your inventory has nothing really to do with them.
 
[quote name='CKISSM']Hey, I have read most of this post and found a lot of interesting information.

However, I had some questions:

1.) I was wondering how you are looking at cash flow.

2.) How many employees are you looking to hire. Wages. Full-time? Part-time?

3.) Do you know or have any information about being an Area Controller. Mainly, how much is the initial fee?

4.) Kind of a continuation of #1 And I know you say that the majority of money comes from used games. But how much will you pay for new inventory? For example GTA4. Sells for say $60 but your cost is??

5.) I guess to just wrap this up neatly, I feel that in order to start any basis you have to have some projections on cash flow and compare that to things like lease, salaries, utilities, royalties, ect. How did you base your cash flow projections. I have heard (through random sites) that PnT is not very out going with these items nor do they even give out average store gross sales for stores. They simply state that each store is different and blablabla. I read here that a GS will do 1.1 mil to 900k a year in gross sales, but what are there yearly expenses? What is their profit margin. Surely this info must be out there as I doubt anyone is going into this blind.

I know you are not open yet, but any help here would be great.

6.) Also, have you hoped for the best and prepared for the worst? And what I mean here is, what happens if your business fails? I imagine you can sublease your space. I also imagine that you can sell back your inventory and monitoring systems to PnT? Basically, I am wondering, if all does not go well, I assume that you can recover some of your initial start-up costs through returning inventory and such

Not trying to be negative in anyway, but as I have looked into several business opportunities, these are some of the things come up and I have seen little information on this from PnT.

Thanks again for any info!!

Hope all is going well!!![/QUOTE]

1. Cash Flow is hard to predict because you don't know your base. You try to use numbers from other videogame stores ala Gamestop but more reserved.

2. I will be hiring my brother and myself. Beyond that it will just be possibly one full time and a few parttime employees. Would be around minimum wage with some incentives and room to grow as the business grows.

3. I honestly do not, sorry.

4. Your cost varies on a few different factors. Mainly it is which vendor you use and how it is shipped to you. Sometimes shipping is free if you order a certain amount. Typically for a $60 game you would pay around $50-$55 for a game. Another thing to think about is how fast a game will sell and that you can restock it. You don't want to order too many especially from a vendor that does not offer price protection.

5. They do not give any solid numbers because it is really hard to. I can honestly say from the past weekend of emails, numbers are all over the place. You have stores doing a million a year and you have stores that can't break $15,000. So it really depends on you and how much you try to be successful. They do tell you this. You need to figure out the rest of the expenses yourself but again, you have to work very hard and be on top of everything. Just because it is a videogame store, doesn't mean you can sit back and relax.

6. Yeah I have looked at that but honestly, if I go out of business... there will be very little to recover because most of it will go to the bank and other expenses. It is something I know that can happen, but I am actually the smartest person on the planet. Well... maybe not, but I am cocky and confident in the product and my ability. Sure there will be a learning curve but that comes with anything. Just because it is a Play N Trade store... it is actually YOUR store. They are there for support but beyond that it is up to you.

Hope that helps :)
 
[quote name='CKISSM']Something else I wanted to mention:

1.) My partner and I are looking at 2 main areas, both right by (same mall area) on a Best Buy.

Now some may think this is a bad idea, but as I hear you say, trade-ins are the #1 way to make money in the PnT area, so it's not such a bad thing if people buy their games at BB and trade them into me. Then with great customer satisfaction I can turn these trade-in customers into my customers.

What do you think?

Also, what do you feel is better location wise. In a mall with GS or in a surrounding mall just out side the main mall complex but by the BB, but still on the main mall property. Keep in mind, the rent inside the mall is 2x as much.

Thanks again!!![/QUOTE]

I would say stay out of malls right now. Alot of the stores that are struggling are the ones inside malls and this is due to the rent and more people buy NEW instead of USED in a mall. Once the brand grows then you can open inside a mall and benefit on the name and better profits on new games.

One problem with going somewhere where there is a Best Buy is that they may block you out on your lease with the landlord. I would look for the best location with visablity and where you can grow. That is very important. Also look for tenants that will help you draw traffic. Cell Phone stores help alot (Official stores, not the side ones so much), electronic stores and youth oriented stores.

But I wouldn't recommend going into a mall at least right now.
 
[quote name='mike.m']Uh, I don't know about PnT, but I can tell you that usually when you get that inventory, you're stuck with it. Most distributors have a short time period to return stuff. I would assume PnT is like most franchises, you pay your royalty fees (typically for nothing other than the name :p ) and your inventory has nothing really to do with them.[/QUOTE]


Yeah, you basically want to flip the software as soon as possible. It is not like a Best Buy where you can just buy shovelware. Gamestop typically doesn't carry much new product instock. You may have one or two copies, but you don't want to have more than that other than a new release or popular game. You want to flip that and sell it and make incentive to get it traded in.
 
All Good to know.

I sat through a webinar yesterday. And they stated that they don't give out financial information.

I also talked to a buddy of mine who works for a national liquidation company (hope I never have to work with him..lol) and he said that PnT probably can't give out that information because they stores are not THEIR stores. They belong to the franchisee.

However, he did state that PnT should be able to give out royalty information and that through these numbers people would be able to make a basis for cash flow.

I realize that no 2 stores are alike. And when I hear that some stores close down, this doesn't bother me one bit because you never know WHY they closed.

Maybe they over stocked, too high of rent, poor location, poor management, not following procedures on business licenses and permits, ect, ect.

In terms of our number 1 location, there is the Best Buy, an AT&T Store, 2 restaurants (a Jason's Deli, and a HuHots which is a mongolian grill both very high traffic), a Borders, a Sportmart, Office Depot, Home Depot, and a Guitar World. I know some of these are business that some people may never heard of, but you get get the gist of them based on the name.

The only problem is that the space may be too big. It's 2500 sq/ft. However we had some ideas for the extra space. First we were going to create a larger office area there for our base of operations as we want to become Area Developers as well. We also want to create a tournament room. Maybe call it the Hall of Champions. I know the name is not totally original, but hey. Anyway, we would have 3 walls with 3-4 monitors per wall, plus vending machines for weekly tournaments. We have a couple of other ideas how this say 500 sq/ft space would be helpful. Mainly it would keep our store from getting over crowded during weekly tournaments. And we really want to push the tournament aspect.

We also want to create a "guild" affect with our base customers. Create a place where people in the area get to know one another as opposed to just some voice over the internet. Have sign-up boards for different games.

IDK if these are good ideas. I just like thinking out side of the box. I am also going to go with the whole grade/report card concept. I am going to try (I don't even know if it's possible) create a mobile PnT where I can go to say a local high school football game, have a couple of screens going and hold raffles or something. These games draw weekly crowds of 5000-10000 people in the community. Let kids play the games on the mobile screens, hand out flyers, answer questions ect.

I also want to go into schools and promote the store that way. Build a client base that will grow as we grow.

If I have to spend..what 2% on advertising, I would rather spend it like this than on TV ads.

Maybe these are dumb ideas...but we are just in the development stage and it's fun to think about. Also, I live in one of the few states that does not have a PnT franchise, or even one in development. So we would be the first to tap into this market. Could be exciting IF PnT really takes off. Set up 2-3 stores over the course of 1-2 years, and then develop the rest of the state.

What do you think?!?!?!
 
Me again.

Anyone heard of this Gamer Doc?? Another NEW video game franchise...Are we about to see some type of video game store outbreak here?!?!?
 
[quote name='CKISSM']All Good to know.

I sat through a webinar yesterday. And they stated that they don't give out financial information.

I also talked to a buddy of mine who works for a national liquidation company (hope I never have to work with him..lol) and he said that PnT probably can't give out that information because they stores are not THEIR stores. They belong to the franchisee.

However, he did state that PnT should be able to give out royalty information and that through these numbers people would be able to make a basis for cash flow.

I realize that no 2 stores are alike. And when I hear that some stores close down, this doesn't bother me one bit because you never know WHY they closed.

Maybe they over stocked, too high of rent, poor location, poor management, not following procedures on business licenses and permits, ect, ect.

In terms of our number 1 location, there is the Best Buy, an AT&T Store, 2 restaurants (a Jason's Deli, and a HuHots which is a mongolian grill both very high traffic), a Borders, a Sportmart, Office Depot, Home Depot, and a Guitar World. I know some of these are business that some people may never heard of, but you get get the gist of them based on the name.

The only problem is that the space may be too big. It's 2500 sq/ft. However we had some ideas for the extra space. First we were going to create a larger office area there for our base of operations as we want to become Area Developers as well. We also want to create a tournament room. Maybe call it the Hall of Champions. I know the name is not totally original, but hey. Anyway, we would have 3 walls with 3-4 monitors per wall, plus vending machines for weekly tournaments. We have a couple of other ideas how this say 500 sq/ft space would be helpful. Mainly it would keep our store from getting over crowded during weekly tournaments. And we really want to push the tournament aspect.

We also want to create a "guild" affect with our base customers. Create a place where people in the area get to know one another as opposed to just some voice over the internet. Have sign-up boards for different games.

IDK if these are good ideas. I just like thinking out side of the box. I am also going to go with the whole grade/report card concept. I am going to try (I don't even know if it's possible) create a mobile PnT where I can go to say a local high school football game, have a couple of screens going and hold raffles or something. These games draw weekly crowds of 5000-10000 people in the community. Let kids play the games on the mobile screens, hand out flyers, answer questions ect.

I also want to go into schools and promote the store that way. Build a client base that will grow as we grow.

If I have to spend..what 2% on advertising, I would rather spend it like this than on TV ads.

Maybe these are dumb ideas...but we are just in the development stage and it's fun to think about. Also, I live in one of the few states that does not have a PnT franchise, or even one in development. So we would be the first to tap into this market. Could be exciting IF PnT really takes off. Set up 2-3 stores over the course of 1-2 years, and then develop the rest of the state.

What do you think?!?!?![/QUOTE]

I don't really believe that PNT will approve a store at 2500sq ft. If you read early on, I had trouble trying to get a store that was 2000 sq ft. It also hurts you and I have seen stores loose money on that. I would have liked a larger store, but right now do not go with it. See if it is possible to sublease the place down to 1500 and not 2500.

Also I would forget the extra office space and tournament room, again if you have space you want to have as much as you can to drive sales and make money. You do your tournaments on the sales floor with those tvs in your store.

You also don't want to go with vending machines because its not high margin. Monster is an approved vendor and they supply you with a free cooler. The Monster drinks have a large mark up.

Also the mobile PNT is a good idea for marketing. That is what I am planning to do but remember it is for marketing so when you open you have to use it otherwise it is a waste.

The location sounds pretty good, if you want you can send me some pictures of the location and I can give you some feedback.

GamerDoc was mentioned before, it was actually started by someone that was employed by PNT a few months ago. It looks iffy considering that he has not run the store yet. It is also themed stores so its very hit or miss.
 
I went to the only MO location in Manchester, MO (at the intersection of Manchester Road and Highway 141) and I was not very impressed. It just looked like a bunch of high school kids in there hanging out. The one worker was trying his best to be professional but all his friends were in there cussing and everything just hanging out and playing the systems.

Also many of their prices did not reflect any recent drops, or what the game even cost coming out. For example, Project Sylpheed was NEVER $60 brand new. Microsoft and Square set that game at the minimum price point of a new 360 game, $40, when it first came out. I realize they can't drop it to what I got it at Circuit City, but it should not be over $40.

The only thing in there I saw that looked interesting was this third-party device that had the top-loading connectors to play both NES and SNES games. Is this device any good?

Also St. Louis area is a bad market for video game stores because so many places sell games, and it's really overloaded with Gamestop's, even after they cut some stores after the Gamestop/EB merger. I work near a really good Gamestop and Game Crazy and most of my purchases go there, plus I have a really cool independent store near where I used to live where I still get my comics, and they sell new/used games also.

I would be very worried if Play N Trade was not able to get GTA 4 and Mario Kart Wii for launch as that's the reason I don't buy that many games from the independent store, as they never get games at launch and many times it takes up to 1 week for them to get new releases.
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']I went to the only MO location in Manchester, MO (at the intersection of Manchester Road and Highway 141) and I was not very impressed. It just looked like a bunch of high school kids in there hanging out. The one worker was trying his best to be professional but all his friends were in there cussing and everything just hanging out and playing the systems.

Also many of their prices did not reflect any recent drops, or what the game even cost coming out. For example, Project Sylpheed was NEVER $60 brand new. Microsoft and Square set that game at the minimum price point of a new 360 game, $40, when it first came out. I realize they can't drop it to what I got it at Circuit City, but it should not be over $40.

The only thing in there I saw that looked interesting was this third-party device that had the top-loading connectors to play both NES and SNES games. Is this device any good?

Also St. Louis area is a bad market for video game stores because so many places sell games, and it's really overloaded with Gamestop's, even after they cut some stores after the Gamestop/EB merger. I work near a really good Gamestop and Game Crazy and most of my purchases go there, plus I have a really cool independent store near where I used to live where I still get my comics, and they sell new/used games also.

I would be very worried if Play N Trade was not able to get GTA 4 and Mario Kart Wii for launch as that's the reason I don't buy that many games from the independent store, as they never get games at launch and many times it takes up to 1 week for them to get new releases.[/QUOTE]

Sorry about that your PNT experience was a negative one. Thats the problem with a franchise, they are not owned by one person so it is really up to the owner to make it great and not let that happen.

Pricing needs to be constantly updated but I know there are tools out there I can check daily for price drops and changes to be right on top of that cause you also want to be on top of a trade in price.

If not then you end up getting hit hard. Say a game valued at $60 gets traded in when it is now dropped to a $30 game, they may get the value for the $60 game for trade in credit.

Also that topload system works pretty well. There is a Play N Trade branded one that is white and blue, sort of matches the Wii. They actually function better than the originals due to updated video cords and the top load is always better.
 
Also the issues with GTA IV and Mario Kart Wii were talked about recently. Basically there was some "politics" with Take Two Interactive regarding pre-shipments. In addition, stores did not order enough because they thought they had enough through multiple vendors. The CEO mentioned that he secured 1000 more copies of GTA IV and offered it to all the stores but only got 100 requested back. After that it was too late.

The Mario Kart Wii was an issue because of the shipping cost. I can tell you that dealing with Nintendo for everyone is always a bitch. But luckly there is a local vendor that does pretty good with Nintendo products. So I can just drive there and back to get the products I need and avoid the shipping cost... although there is gas cost.
 
Okay, I got the key yesterday and here are some pictures of inside the location. We won't have a ceiling, so the plan is to paint everything black. It is going to look huge and be epic, hope you guys can imagine what I see when I look at the space. That is my brother in the pictures btw, used him as a sense of scale for the building.

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Btw, I got more information about the "politics" that forced many PNT stores to get their GTA IV shipment late. Apparently there were a few stores that broke the release date for Smash Bros Brawl and Gamestop Corp. mentioned this to Take2. Take2 did not want that to happen so the penalized all the PNT stores that caused the vendors to ship them later than expected so stores could not do a midnight release on the biggest game of the year. I don't know which stores broke the date but it sucks because all stores are independent, but they all got hurt.

Hopefully something like this does not happen in the future.
 
What is your time table for opening and what is the cost to finish all of that?

You said it was what..2000sq/ft??

Are you going with the wood floor as I thought you mentioned earlier??
 
Man, I am excited for you. I think it is partially because I can see a direction I can go, when I am able to open my own.

The one thing that absolutely frightens me about opening one down here in Dallas, is that Gamestop's headquarters is located IN Dallas, so this place is riddled with GS everywhere. Apparently though, there is a PNT store located relatively close to me, so I am going to go there, probably tomorrow, and see how the business is.

Good luck, my friend!
 
Is that I have absolutly no idea what kind of cash flow these places are capable of. And that scares me. Kinda hard to throw 20ok into a business with no feed back on what these stores can generate with the proper management.

I understand why PnT can't tell this type of info beacuse they don't own these stores. But I have been told they should be able to tell people the royality numbers that they have collected. And if they are unwilling to do that then I should worry.

I have yet to ask this, mostly because I already feel I know their answer which will be some sugar coated way of saying no.

Anyway, I would be the first to open one in my state which is exciting, but putting a business plan together without discussing cash flow seems to be a majot conflict for me.
 
The store is 1600 sq ft and I will be going with epoxy sealed floor, basically what you see at Home Depot and stuff. Its just the original concrete with a sealer. I figure it is cheaper, would work well with the colors and easy clean up.

I hope to be open in about 2 months from the start of the GC process. I have two months until the landlord gets that stuff up and ready with the location aka the back door. I honestly do not know the price yet for the build out. I know I saved some money with a few things like not having a ceiling and my exterior signage being flat wood instead of illuminated.

As far as numbers go, it really depends on the store. You honestly have a big gap from stores not doing well to stores reaching over a million. They were just talking numbers recently but I cannot divulge those numbers on here.

They do have a plan to raise all the store sales and help out struggling stores. PM me if you want more information on that. I know too that when I did my sales plan, I may have over estimated it, but hopefully I can keep on it.
 
Not sure if anyone mentioned this(not reading through 39 pages lol)

But right now in my hometown DBQ, IA of about 60,000 people, that houses a gamestop and EB and one indy place and a Gamers paradise i think its called.

If you have an extra room or some space, gamers paradise is a lan of bigscreen tvs and consoles that kids come and play and pay per hour. Supposedly this place is doing fairly well, (its still in business after a year :p)

Just an idea to expand on the tournament thing, this will bring in a little extra revenue as well as getting locals to the store.
 
[quote name='DesrucLous']Not sure if anyone mentioned this(not reading through 39 pages lol)

But right now in my hometown DBQ, IA of about 60,000 people, that houses a gamestop and EB and one indy place and a Gamers paradise i think its called.

If you have an extra room or some space, gamers paradise is a lan of bigscreen tvs and consoles that kids come and play and pay per hour. Supposedly this place is doing fairly well, (its still in business after a year :p)

Just an idea to expand on the tournament thing, this will bring in a little extra revenue as well as getting locals to the store.[/QUOTE]

Some stores have done something similar bug I think it goes against the PNT idea. You can play any game you want and then charging someone to play it privately is a little weird to me. I can understand doing a private tournament, but just a play room.

Also that is extra sq ft that could go to merchandise product but if no one is using the room then its not making any money.
 
Thing is what keeps parents from turning you into a daycare if you don't charge to play? If someone leaves a kid by themselves there do you call the cops after a bit?
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']Thing is what keeps parents from turning you into a daycare if you don't charge to play? If someone leaves a kid by themselves there do you call the cops after a bit?[/QUOTE]

I will have to handle that situation when it happens, but honestly I don't have too big a problem with it unless it becomes a problem. If not they would just bring their kid to one of our competitors. If they keep coming, more than likely they will buy something. Also it is a way to get the parents to interact with their kids with playing the games together. If you get the parents and kids, well thats just another customer vs. just the parents.

Also another thing I have noticed is as gamers have got older, they get sort of slanted in that "parent" shopping mode by other stores. So you have a kid, you want to buy a game for yourself. But employees think your buying something for your son or daughter, its all about customer service.

If it becomes a problem you just have to talk to the parents and explain that it might be a safety issue and security issue.
 
Got a few more questions..lol

So what is your time frame for opening???

And how long has it been since you started this process?

And what do you feel is the minimum amount of time need to open a PnT?

If my partner and I do this we would want to be open by say Oct, in time for the shopping season.
It may already be too late for that, IDK. We have been doing research and have scouted locations, just looking for a bit more info before we pull the trigger.

Also, do you think it is possible for a new store to have two managers/partners? I mean I know that is what you and your brother are doing, but right now we both have jobs, and we are worried that we may not be able to cover our current salaries if we both open/share a store.
 
[quote name='CKISSM']Got a few more questions..lol

So what is your time frame for opening???

And how long has it been since you started this process?

And what do you feel is the minimum amount of time need to open a PnT?

If my partner and I do this we would want to be open by say Oct, in time for the shopping season.
It may already be too late for that, IDK. We have been doing research and have scouted locations, just looking for a bit more info before we pull the trigger.

Also, do you think it is possible for a new store to have two managers/partners? I mean I know that is what you and your brother are doing, but right now we both have jobs, and we are worried that we may not be able to cover our current salaries if we both open/share a store.[/QUOTE]

I started this process around last April and I also wanted to be open for last holiday season. It ain't going to happen no matter what people tell you. There are so many things you really need to go through, I would just let it flow out and let the process work itself out. You also may not want to open right at the holiday season for a few reasons.

One is that you won't have the inventory you need to really take advantage of the increased customers. Also you might not have your staffed fully trained for the incoming rush. You don't know your customer or the business yet.

I plan to open in around two months or so, again depending on the process.

As far as your partner and such. It really depends on what you want to do. I know that I will have to decrease my pay and im only a department manager. I will be investing more time and effort for less money, but that is a sacrifice I have to make.

The splitting of power also could be a problem. When you create your company you really need to have a chain of command and when it comes down to it, who makes the choices. If you do 50 50, you might have problems down the road. Work out who is good at what and what you may need. I can tell you that you don't need two full time store managers.
 
get one copy of every RPG being done. new at least. because you need to get people into your store and if they think or KNOW you will have something that gamestop sold out of / didnt get, then then slowly start to come into your store on a regular basis.

If you dont have something, dont tell someone to piss off....ever. EVER! find out how much they would pay for it and FIND IT. Ebay, cragislist, CAG, your own collection, do WHATEVER you have to to get them the game. Because when you find a copy of Dragon Warrior 3 for that guy even though you dont even SELL NES games, you got a customer for life.

Give people who sign up for tournaments 10 percent off used games on the days of the tournament on top or discount cards or whatever else. get them use to actually BUYING stuff from your store.

..... its to late at night thats all i got
 
[quote name='Narynan']get one copy of every RPG being done. new at least. because you need to get people into your store and if they think or KNOW you will have something that gamestop sold out of / didnt get, then then slowly start to come into your store on a regular basis.

If you dont have something, dont tell someone to piss off....ever. EVER! find out how much they would pay for it and FIND IT. Ebay, cragislist, CAG, your own collection, do WHATEVER you have to to get them the game. Because when you find a copy of Dragon Warrior 3 for that guy even though you dont even SELL NES games, you got a customer for life.

Give people who sign up for tournaments 10 percent off used games on the days of the tournament on top or discount cards or whatever else. get them use to actually BUYING stuff from your store.

..... its to late at night thats all i got[/QUOTE]

I agree, unlike most owners I know about the industry. So I know about games most don't which can hurt you. I can't order one of every game though. I will stay away from certain games that I deem well, crap. No need to fill my shelf with shovelware. If it sells that is a different story, but alot of those games end up dropping in price rapidly.

We can also get games if requested and try to hunt down older games.

Surprisingly, I don't see alot of stores offer an added bonus to participating in a tournament besides actually playing. They may run a special but it is throughout the week and not just for members of the tournaments.
 
Hey guys, know there hasn't been much posted on here lately. Right now we are working on getting a quote from a General Contractor on our build out. We have started the rollout for our fixtures and Dell products. Another thing we are working on is getting our permits and business license from the state and township. Hopefully those go smoothly but from what I heard, they are very strict in the area.

One thing I have seen recently that is sort of odd with alot of other owners is sending out their excess inventory to be transfered to other stores. The odd thing is typically the quanity is fairly low meaning one or two pieces of a new product. Now they say excess so it could mean additionally inventory and they are keeping a few pieces. But I highly doubt this and think they just want to move this product out of their store.

Problem is that with that, you are paying for additional shipping and no price protection. The odd thing is they try to get other stores to buy product that may not sell. I honestly don't know why they just don't mark these games down and sell them to the customer. I haven't heard of a single store really try to do this that has had an excess inventory list.

Most these titles I think would fly off the shelf if they were marked down slightly just to get rid of them and they would still be above cost for most of them. Just odd. The store near me is at least doing 30% off select titles that have a green dot.

It also shows to be very careful with what you are purchasing because it may not sell fast enough. I think though with getting rid of all these titles it is a disservice to the customer that may be looking for this title but now you don't have it in stock. I might understand if you have a few used copies but in this mass amount, it is just very odd.

I have been slowly working on the website also and hope to have that fully up and running when we do open. Check it out at http://www.playntradepa.com

I am starting to put additional features that PNT offers vs. other competitors. It is something that many stores don't take advantage of and something customers appreciate.

Tell me what you think about anything :)
 
Offering a bonus for participating in a tournament isn't a bad idea. If it's a one day chance to get a discount people are likely to buy something right then since they can't come back the next day or the day after. For example, I just bought a watch off of mlb.com because they had a 20% off code that only lasts through the weekend. Since it was there and I knew it was going to expire soon and didn't know when there'd be another one, I just went ahead and bought it. Had the coupon lasted for another week, there's a good chance I would have put it off then forgotten about it completely and not bought it for months. 10% isn't anything special or anything, but it might be enough to encourage people to buy more just because it's offered and they're there and they don't know when it might be offered again.
 
I've started to make some big purchases lately including the 9 Tvs but I will not be getting them through Dell due to cost and money issues. Instead I will have one 42" LG and eight 32" Sharp Tvs. Im sure they will look very slick and we plan on getting our G.C. Quote in the next few days. Hopefully this entire process will not delay us too long. I am hoping for either a late July or early August opening.
 
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