Resident Evil 5, N'Gai Croal and the ugly reaction

[quote name='w00t_culafi']sigh...now every other person is attempting badass posts instead of cheapass posts[/quote]

Do you care to elaborate on just what the hell that's supposed to mean?
 
A way Capcom could fix this is by adding another black hero, but it doesn't seem like they care too much. What is with Japan, and their carelessness?!

Like N'gai said, can't exactly say it's racist, but it doesn't make sense to put out a trailer like that given America's history.

I'll be looking forward to this game, but it upsets me that there are rarely any worthy black heroes these days. In that way the industry is years behind movies, and even they still have a problem with race.
 
I think the criticism is very misplaced. I mean the two points seem to be

1. the imagery has history
2. That imagery could cause problems for the game outside the gaming world.

Well no shit N'gai. You've pretty much pegged most fucking games out there. I am not sure why a game in a "black" village requires a dissertation by the developer explaining "I know it looks like that but it really means this" moreso than any other game.

To me, an impoverish black village is an "image" that is not racist. N'gai is bringing a ton of his personal bias into the discussion. If that setting (pre-zombie) generates fear in a gamer, the gamer has the problem. That's not to say an image can't be racist but not every image of a black person is.
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']Do you care to elaborate on just what the hell that's supposed to mean?[/QUOTE]

for every insight, there is a post like #46
 
I'm not going to dive into this impossible issue, but instead just say that if this game doesn't get every talking head all righteous when it comes out, then clearly, it's a Rockstar-witch hunt world we live in. The announcement trailer alone should've incited mindless protesting, given that people went to arms over a game about a white kid in a boarding school that they knew nothing about. Maybe it's the whole plane-ticket-to-Japan thing....

I'll also add that the knee-jerk defensive and defiant reaction from gamers here and elsewhere about this issue is sadly predictable. N'Gai deserves a little bit more thought in the average response, I think.
 
As far as this issue goes, it boils down to a couple of things.

N'Gai Croal is stirring up contreversy where there is none, to get some media exposure for himself.

That, in and of itself, is bad enough.

Then you have all the gaming blogs - Joystiq, Kotaku and 1up - editing specific portions of the interview to be sensationalistic and elicit an emotional response.

I checked 1up, Kotaku, Joystiq, Gamespot, Magicbox, Gamespy and IGN today, as well as two horror news sites who also cover gaming - DreadCentral and BloodyDisgusting, and Kotaku, 1up and Joystiq were the only ones to go with a story about this.

What they did was take portions of the interview, out of context, and use it to sensationalise the issue to generate hits on their websites.

Joystiq was the least offensive of the three, with 1up hamfistedly tying the interview with the RE5 producer to N'Gai's comments in such a ridiculous way that it looked like a high schooler wrote it.

Kotaku actually had the balls to chew their commenters out after only printing parts of the article, including the same sensationalist headline that Joystiq used.

Gamespot had a link to an article about the issue when it was raised the first time, in the interview they printed with the RE5 producer, but nothing more.

So Joystiq, Kotaku and 1up are the worst offenders, along with N'Gai.

I noticed that my comment privleges were shut down on Kotaku after I said the above in the Kotaku forums, so apparantly criticism is subject to censorship on that site.

If these people want to be taken seriously as journalists, because that's what they refer to themselves as - game journalists, then I'm starting to think they should be subject to the same kinds of rules and regulations as regular news media in some regards.

The kind of crap that 1up, Joystiq and Kotaku pulled today was *worse* than anything Fox news has ever done.

I'm going to have to start rethinking where I get my gaming news from.
 
Can you think of a non-kiddy blockbuster videogame that didn't feature a hostile environment? I'm talking action games, not the "Sims", Rock Band or Phoenix Wright.

GTA 3, Gun, Res Evil 1-4, Yakuza -- all are just chock full of people of a specific race from a specific geographical area who are just out to kill you.

Jesus I was playing "Call of Duty" and the first scene is a crazed Russian soldier screaming "Shoot the German, shoot the German, your mother is crying for you to kill the German!!" I'd love for someone to compare the ratio of German heroes to German villains in videogames - I'd bet big that it's not even close. Yet I think we're all mature enough to know that all of the real German soldiers in WW2 were not evil automatons and moral judgment can't be meted out in such black and white terms. (The current Pope was part of the Hitler youth, wrap your head around that...)

People lament the fact that videogames aren't set in Africa but if blockbuster videogame environments are any guide it's no big honor. Res Evil 5 is just further proof of this. Besides, it's also simply not true. Where do you think all those Egyptian games are set (Protip: Egypt is not part of the Eurasian continent). Likewise I've played at least a few games with levels set in modern Africa (Hitman games, Civilization for example)
 
BTW 50 Cents new game will have him going to the Middle East to shoot everything up for, of all things, a diamond-encrusted skull. So I guess that's OK, but poor villagers taken over by a zombie parasite in Africa is over the line. Makes sense :roll:
 
For like the fiftieth time - it isn't the setting of Africa or fact that the antagonists are black alone that is causing the racist debate. Otherwise, any gang-banger game would be getting the same treatment.

It's the iconography and negative view toward the villagers (pre-infection - though that isn't proven) in the beginning of the trailer that is making certain people like N'Gai take a second look. Jesus Christ. If you guys read the freaking article, that was pretty obvious. You're all attacking straw men.
 
[quote name='insertcleverthing']For like the fiftieth time - it isn't the setting of Africa or fact that the antagonists are black alone that is causing the racist debate. Otherwise, any gang-banger game would be getting the same treatment.

It's the iconography and negative view toward the villagers (pre-infection - though that isn't proven) in the beginning of the trailer that is making certain people like N'Gai take a second look. Jesus Christ. If you guys read the freaking article, that was pretty obvious. You're all attacking straw men.[/QUOTE]
It's a horror game. Of course the trailer is going to start with a sense of unease and a negative attitude.
 
Honestly, I don't know what people want at this point. Would it be better if they just panned through an African village with kids playing and had the main character muse about how he respects the African-American (gotta use the longest term possible to be accepting) race and culture?
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Honestly, I don't know what people want at this point. Would it be better if they just panned through an African village with kids playing and had the main character muse about how he respects the African-American (gotta use the longest term possible to be accepting) race and culture?[/quote]

Hopefully they have time to make a mod where the zombies attack Chris with uplifting singing, hugs, and bouquets of Hibiscus flowers.
 
It is racist ,however, to assume that nobody that worked on the game was of African descent (and by extension, that anyone who was of African descent and worked on such a game would find such images racist and would inform Capcom).
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Honestly, I don't know what people want at this point. Would it be better if they just panned through an African village with kids playing and had the main character muse about how he respects the African-American (gotta use the longest term possible to be accepting) race and culture?[/QUOTE]

Followed by 5-8 hours of butchering them? Yes
 
people really need to stop bringing up Jews/Holocaust. Everytime someone wants to make a point they will bring up Nazi Germany as their example. Really just annoys me. Really there are no comparisons with genocides even though there are similarities it just feels to me its in bad taste.

On to N'Gai, he is really jumping the gun being as he has played a total of 0 minutes. I can see where he is coming from, but he is being prejudice when it comes to RE5. Prejudging the game before it is even complete.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']people really need to stop bringing up Jews/Holocaust. Everytime someone wants to make a point they will bring up Nazi Germany as their example. Really just annoys me. Really there are no comparisons with genocides even though there are similarities it just feels to me its in bad taste.[/quote]
Welcome to Godwin's Law.
 
[quote name='akilshohen']One thing that hasn't been mentioned, is why are all the villagers dark skinned? There is such thing as a light skinned African. Just a though.....[/quote]


Well I'm sure the dark skin is indicative of where the story takes place. People that live in the northern parts of africa magrhab have a lighter skin then those from central africa like people from Chad, Congo, Somalia etc. Just like Southern Spaniards and Italians have a darker skin then their fellow countrymen of the north.


and on the whole racism comments. (I haven't read the whole thread) Its just poppycock. I could give some validity to his comments if the game was made by rockstar or bungie but it was made in Japan. Since when is americans insecurities about racism pushed upon other societies?
 
[quote name='insertcleverthing']
It's the iconography and negative view toward the villagers (pre-infection - though that isn't proven) in the beginning of the trailer that is making certain people like N'Gai take a second look. Jesus Christ. If you guys read the freaking article, that was pretty obvious. You're all attacking straw men.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm...yep iconography for setting up a Horror zombie game. Let's see RE1-4 were horror zombie games...that alone should debunk the whole "negative view" idea. I guess maybe the villagers should run up to Chris and give him flowers and candy with smiles? I don't know about you but if I saw some dude in my village with guns a-blazing dressed like him I'd probably give him evil eye dirty looks too. It's all about setting up for what's to come. Setting the mood. We'll probably find out later in the game that these people aren't even human or some shit.

The other funny thing is your everyday average video gamer (of every race) who doesn't read video game sites will probably just pick up the game and take it for what it is...a video game where you shoot zombies.
 
I was sooooo offended by the over-the-top racism in Lost Planet! C'mon! Those poor defenseless Akrid!!!! I mean, is Capcom even aware of the history of the Intergalactic Bugsian-American Race? Didn't they watch Starship Troopers???? Play Starcraft??? Call Johnnie Cockroach! Stop the Olympic torch now! Delay the Game! AO Rating!
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']I think it's about time African Americans did. The truth of the matter is there are no African Americans living today who have ever been enslaved for a single day like their ancestors were in the past.[/quote]

But there are *many* blacks living today who couldnt eat in certain restaruants, couldnt pee in certain bathrooms, couldnt attend certain schools, couldnt legally married certain people ( e.g. misenegation), were beaten, had dogs sic'ed on them, were pelted with fire hoses, etc., including many people of my parents generation. Hell, the area I live in now, just about 40 years ago was still mostly segregated (ever see 'Remember the Titans'?). There is a still a legacy of racisim in this country.

That aside, I personally didnt see much racisim in this trailer (and yes, I'm black). Similarly, I saw nothing wrong with the LeBron 'Vogue' cover. But my problem is not with N'Gai's 'racisim' claim but his premise that Capcom needed to have 'cultral advice' for this trailer.

Specifically, as is shown by the comments to the thread, the overwhelming majority of people who viewed the trailed had no such baggage of 'racisim' with them. The audience that Capcom basically showed the trailer to, needed no such 'cultural tweaking'. The audience understood the context of the videogame, and thus were not predisposed to the see the trailer as 'racist'.

I think Mr. Croal underestimates Capcom in knowing who the audience is. Quite frankly, people of my parents and grandparents generation, more specifically Blacks in America of this age, who were more directly affected by the institutional racisim in America ARENT WATCHING E3 TRAILERS. Thus, for the most part, the whole arguement is moot. Those most likely to be 'offended', arent going to see it anyway. Hence, no need to consult a 'black' for the trailer.

Now if this was a Super Bowl Commercial, maybe we'd have an argument. :cool:
 
[quote name='Grave_Addiction']There are countless other races who have experienced much worse crimes against them (American Indians, Jews, etc.), and you don't hear them making ridiculous claims of racism any time they're race is involved in any sort of potentially questionable material.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, while you may have a point to make, it is derailed by comments such as this. You should really go read some history books. I think your understanding of the history of Africa is sorely lacking.
 
N'Gai may, may, have a point regarding the race issue (I'm as of yet undecided), but his comparisons to the Holocaust are absolutely ridiculous. That argument is central to setting. In one, you're fighting villagers in (what we can assume is) their natural setting, while in the other you'd be fighting the imprisoned victims of a continent-wide genocide. Big difference. If N'Gai had argued that it'd be the same as killing zombie Jews in Israel it would have been an apt comparison, but then that would pretty much kill the argument he's trying to raise. N'Gai's statement is just as insensitive to race as the supposed material in the trailer.

As far as the question of why all of the zombies are dark-skinned, it is just a matter of what location in Africa the game is set in. My step-mother is an Ethiopian immigrant, and she claims that the northern area of her country is predominantly dark-skinned, while the southern area is light-skinned (a result of centuries of mixed relations with Greek, Jewish, Roman, British, and Egyptian invaders). I guess one could argue that these villagers are in a remote location- far from an area where such relations would likely occur.
 
kanye_west-1.jpg
 
[quote name='homeland']Well I'm sure the dark skin is indicative of where the story takes place. People that live in the northern parts of africa magrhab have a lighter skin then those from central africa like people from Chad, Congo, Somalia etc. Just like Southern Spaniards and Italians have a darker skin then their fellow countrymen of the north.


and on the whole racism comments. (I haven't read the whole thread) Its just poppycock. I could give some validity to his comments if the game was made by rockstar or bungie but it was made in Japan. Since when is americans insecurities about racism pushed upon other societies?[/quote]



I think if you plan on marketing a game in America you should probably invest some effort into understandinghow it will be recieved there.


it reminds me of something that happened in one of my classes.

I was attending a school with a lot of international students from Europe and Asia. We were storyboarding a short film and one of my classmates had a film idea boarded out. His film started with a lot of happy people playing a laughing together and having fun in a park. Suddenly a giant foot comes from the sky and stamps on them. The camera pans up and we see a man in a KKK hood standing and laughing at the destruction.

Some of the class just stood there, stunned. (but many students from other countries didn't have much of a reaction.) This guy was from Norway and knew nothing about America's history, he thought the hooded character looked funny, like an evil clown and would be a good ending.

I felt bad for the guy, he had no idea of what was behind the imagery he was using.


I'm not trying to equate the two situations but when that happened it really struck me how different cultures can have some pretty drastic misunderstandings if they are not careful.
 
They live in Africa, therefore they are African. Not African American. For those calling the villagers African American, stop trying to be so politically correct.
 
[quote name='doc_zaius']I think if you plan on marketing a game in America you should probably invest some effort into understandinghow it will be recieved there.


it reminds me of something that happened in one of my classes.

I was attending a school with a lot of international students from Europe and Asia. We were storyboarding a short film and one of my classmates had a film idea boarded out. His film started with a lot of happy people playing a laughing together and having fun in a park. Suddenly a giant foot comes from the sky and stamps on them. The camera pans up and we see a man in a KKK hood standing and laughing at the destruction.

Some of the class just stood there, stunned. (but many students from other countries didn't have much of a reaction.) This guy was from Norway and knew nothing about America's history, he thought the hooded character looked funny, like an evil clown and would be a good ending.

I felt bad for the guy, he had no idea of what was behind the imagery he was using.


I'm not trying to equate the two situations but when that happened it really struck me how different cultures can have some pretty drastic misunderstandings if they are not careful.[/quote]

So should they release the original version of the game as they intended their story to be told to the rest of the world but for the american release change the zombies to another skin tone?

I just don't get how knee jerk our society is. Yes I know the past is horrible and its lingering effects are still relevent today but not everyone in the world is subject to Americans race issues. They have a cartoon in france called Kirikou. The main character is a little African boy that runs around naked saving his village Its a descent little cartoon, nothing degrading it just takes place in the past. But nothing like that would fly here as just a quick look could come off derogatory.

kirikou.jpg
 
I don't see why N'Gai is surprised. We do a poor job as a whole in conveying the true weight of history in public schools, so why would the racial struggles in our country be any different? You only need to spend 10 minutes in any public place in America to realize the lack of real struggles in last 25+ years has lead to a majority of people not appreciating the struggles that we had to go through to get where we are today.

On a positive note this thread made me think of the reperations skit from the Chapelle Show. I had visions of Black Zombies playing craps for a giant pile of brains. Then Thriller popped in my head and they started dancing. I need to go to bed....
 
[quote name='camoor']Remember Turistas?

Alot of similarities with this controversy.

I guess horror movies can only be set in industrialized countries such as Japan and USA.[/quote]

Go, hot white kids!
 
So what's the problem with the game..... a white man is shooting some Zombies? and the Zombies are black.

Black people, (such as myself) have more to worry about, than some damn pretend zombies getting shot in a game. I played GTA Sanandreas, and I was a little offended by the game, due to all the streotypes, and cursing. (more than what was needed, more than what was in GTA Vice City) So I didn't play it. If you don't like it don't play it.
 
Ugh. Seeing the fuss this one person is making about the game is making me cringe in horror at the thought of the inevitable shitstorm that's going to come when they start really publicly promoting the game as it get's closer to release. The news networks are going to have a field day. Like the Mass Effect sex fiasco, but a hundred times worse.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Ugh. Seeing the fuss this one person is making about the game is making me cringe in horror at the thought of the inevitable shitstorm that's going to come when they start really publicly promoting the game as it get's closer to release. The news networks are going to have a field day. Like the Mass Effect sex fiasco, but a hundred times worse.[/quote]

I hear ya. I'm still wondering why N'Gai's opinion on the matter is even newsworthy and why anyone should give two shits about it.
 
Maybe because he is a respected game industry critic?

I would hope anyone who follows the industry or visits the blogosphere (man, I hate that term) would at least know his name. he's been on the MTV gametrailers and G4 circuit and I believe he's visited the major networks (CNN, Fox, etc.) at least a few times though I could be wrong.
 
...but I had a change of heart after I saw this inviting post:

[quote name='insertcleverthing']

By the way, the french are notoriously xenophobic...[/QUOTE]

But are the japanese really xenophobic? And since this game is targeting an audience outside of japan (and if you want to see videogames continue to evolve) shouldn't we want to engage in a dialogue about the common experience we're all going to share?

When I heard that Resident Evil/Bioshock 5 would take place in Africa, I figured it would be done to show off new lighting effects. The producer even says so in an article on gamespot. What makes me uncomfortable is that the very real contrast in skin tone has seperated Americans in the not-too-distant past. Denying the truth will not change it. It just makes it fester and then people rant.

When you play video games, especially single player affairs, you are immersing yourself in an experience the game creators want you to have. The world and it's denizens have been created for YOU. So if an experience makes you uncomfortable, sometimes the best thing to do is talk it out.:)
 
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[quote name='rhymetimesfine']But are the japanese really xenophobic? [/quote]
As someone who has been to Japan and currently works under a Japanese boss who immigrated here (on an H1B Visa), I can say undoubtedly, without question - YES! Yes they are. -For the most part, as far as generalizations go, blah, blah, blah, etc.

I'm not really arguing the game is racist anyway. I only came in here to defend N'Gai and his rationale behind his comments since he's a smart guy with good opinions (from what little I know about him). Every other post has been like "OMG! The game is racist just becuz it has blakc zombees? How stoopid!!one!"

Yeah, that's not the freaking point he was making there people. Still isn't.

Like I've said before, I'm holding judgment until I play the game in which I case I pretty much expect the game design reasoning behind the iconography to be totally acceptable (i.e. they're all already infected/brainwashed).
 
[quote name='insertcleverthing']I'm not really arguing the game is racist anyway. I only came in here to defend N'Gai and his rationale behind his comments since he's a smart guy with good opinions (from what little I know about him). Every other post has been like "OMG! The game is racist just becuz it has blakc zombees? How stoopid!!one!"

Yeah, that's not the freaking point he was making there people. Still isn't.[/QUOTE]
But I still think his points suck.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']So what's the problem with the game..... a white man is shooting some Zombies? and the Zombies are black.

Black people, (such as myself) have more to worry about, than some damn pretend zombies getting shot in a game. I played GTA Sanandreas, and I was a little offended by the game, due to all the streotypes, and cursing. (more than what was needed, more than what was in GTA Vice City) So I didn't play it. If you don't like it don't play it.[/quote]

^That's how I see the game, just another game by capcom about zombies and suvival horror.
 
Reading the original article and the comments, Croal is saying it's racist without actually saying "it's racist" and going to great pains to tell everyone he's not saying it's racist. Whatever, dude.
 
[quote name='Heavy Hitter']Reading the original article and the comments, Croal is saying it's racist without actually saying "it's racist" and going to great pains to tell everyone he's not saying it's racist. Whatever, dude.[/QUOTE]

No, what he is saying is that it's culturally insensitive. There's a difference. He actually makes an extremely reasoned argument that obviously many here have not read, as he addresses many points raised in this thread within the interview.
 
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