Rich dont pay enough but poor people dont pay any and people fine with that

[quote name='Richard Kain']But all I have to do is point to Greece's current predicament as an example. Greece went the welfare state route, and now their entire country is on the verge of collapse, and it's implosion is seriously threatening the economic stability of the European Union. We now have a practical example of what happens when a government attempts to "provide" for its people.
.[/QUOTE]

Where do you even begin to point out everything thats wrong about this?
So in your mind: Social programs and an above average minimum wage in Greece caused the Global Financial Crisis?

You know its almost like an Idiocracy moment. " I see Austerity Measures taking place - That Must've been the problem"
What are Electrolytes? - Brawndo has Electrolytes
 
love how this is almost 28 pages long yet Not a single point to say why they should be allow to sit on their asses just having children and think the rest of the people should take care of them

They have no jobs they just have children YET they get tax refunds every year and noone throws a fit about it
 
[quote name='slidecage']love how this is almost 28 pages long yet Not a single point to say why they should be allow to sit on their asses just having children and think the rest of the people should take care of them

They have no jobs they just have children YET they get tax refunds every year and noone throws a fit about it[/QUOTE]

Because I don't want little kids walking around begging me for money like they do in India?
 
[quote name='slidecage']love how this is almost 28 pages long yet Not a single point to say why they should be allow to sit on their asses just having children and think the rest of the people should take care of them[/QUOTE]

Yeah you guys get on it geez
 
Yeah, amazing how no one jumps to defend a worst case scenario. He really showed us! No need to pay attention to any of the rest of the thread where welfare and its problems and benefits are discussed in more detail. Nope. Gotta stick with a myopic point of view with a single example. I know I have been put in my place.

(And, as people have pointed out already a few times, they wouldn't get a tax refund unless they had filed taxes the previous year and earned over a certain amount. But that doesn't matter, because why do facts matter when no one defended his neighbor?)
 
[quote name='slidecage']love how this is almost 28 pages long yet Not a single point to say why they should be allow to sit on their asses just having children and think the rest of the people should take care of them

They have no jobs they just have children YET they get tax refunds every year and noone throws a fit about it[/QUOTE]

Already explained - they have to live next to you.

Yes I'm being serious.
 
[quote name='Cantatus']Yeah, amazing how no one jumps to defend a worst case scenario. He really showed us! No need to pay attention to any of the rest of the thread where welfare and its problems and benefits are discussed in more detail. Nope. Gotta stick with a myopic point of view with a single example. I know I have been put in my place.

(And, as people have pointed out already a few times, they wouldn't get a tax refund unless they had filed taxes the previous year and earned over a certain amount. But that doesn't matter, because why do facts matter when no one defended his neighbor?)[/QUOTE]

Simple. The children are claimed by the family member that does have a job (brother, sister, aunt, oldest daughter, etc.)

That's how the wealth is redistributed. You can only get so much back anyways; if you have kids laying around dormant that you're not collecting on you might as well let others claim them as dependents.

But that's just hypothetical---because we all know it doesn't happen. It's a myth like welfare fraud/abuse
 
Unless someone is fraudulently taking benefits, there are no welfare queens. You can't support any easy lifestyle just by having more kids. Slidecage, assuming your neighbor example is accurate, reporting is a more effective action than ranting online, for example:
http://www.dss.cahwnet.gov/fraud/PG269.htm
No one actually on welfare wants to be on welfare, no one in poverty thinks they are living the good life. People want to work and tie their own self-worth and pride to being able to have a job, and support themselves and loved ones.
Unfortunately, there are corrupt individuals. They can be both poor, they can be wealthy. The evil of someone like Angelo Mozilo is going to balance out, in monetary terms, the entirety of the individuals fraudulently taking welfare benefits.
Both need to be brought to justice, but fraud is a different discussion than the morality of fairness in progressive taxing policies.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Simple. The children are claimed by the family member that does have a job (brother, sister, aunt, oldest daughter, etc.)

That's how the wealth is redistributed. You can only get so much back anyways; if you have kids laying around dormant that you're not collecting on you might as well let others claim them as dependents.

But that's just hypothetical---because we all know it doesn't happen. It's a myth like welfare fraud/abuse[/QUOTE]

Or, it's possible one of them works from home. Or, Slidecage just doesn't have all the facts. One hypothetical is just as good as the other, which is why Slidecage trying to boil this entire debate down to just his neighbors is utterly absurd.
 
[quote name='Cantatus']Or, it's possible one of them works from home. Or, Slidecage just doesn't have all the facts. One hypothetical is just as good as the other, which is why Slidecage trying to boil this entire debate down to just his neighbors is utterly absurd.[/QUOTE]

I doubt the government tracks this statistic but I would be interested to see the number of households receiving welfare that have a non biological parent outside the household claiming the children on their tax returns.
 
If you collect food stamps it isn't reflected in a tax return.(non taxable income) Maybe I'm just confused on what you consider a welfare recipient. (or you are)
Parents who submit children in the household to increase a snap have to supply their social security number.
So , pretty sure multiple people aren't receiving food stamps on the same kids.

What is a ' non biological parent outside the household' ? Just "this asshole"? So , "This asshole" is a welfare recipient that's claiming kids that aren't his or hers? What sort of welfare is this person receiving? SNAP? He's not claiming the kids to collect a higher snap , he's just claiming them to get a larger tax return?

The answer is . No , theres no way to track things that aren't happening.
 
[quote name='EdRyder']If you collect food stamps it isn't reflected in a tax return.(non taxable income) Maybe I'm just confused on what you consider a welfare recipient. (or you are)
Parents who submit children in the household to increase a snap have to supply their social security number.
So , pretty sure multiple people aren't receiving food stamps on the same kids.

What is a ' non biological parent outside the household' ? Just "this asshole"? So , "This asshole" is a welfare recipient that's claiming kids that aren't his or hers? What sort of welfare is this person receiving? SNAP? He's not claiming the kids to collect a higher snap , he's just claiming them to get a larger tax return?

The answer is . No , theres no way to track things that aren't happening.[/QUOTE]

No.

This is what I'm describing.

Mother has several children (3+). Mother does not work and therefore doesn't have income taxes to file and isn't eligible to receive the Child Tax Credit.

However anyone that passes the "relationship test" can claim the child:

Relationship Test: To claim a child for purposes of the Child Tax Credit, they must either be your son, daughter, stepchild, foster child, brother, sister, stepbrother, stepsister or a descendant of any of these individuals, which includes your grandchild, niece or nephew. An adopted child is always treated as your own child. An adopted child includes a child lawfully placed with you for legal adoption.

...and earn the income tax credit.
 
So she has three children already that shes receiving welfare from (like snap) And then she's going to claim extra kids or relatives that aren't hers to receive EIC. She'd still have to submit socials for those kids and nobody else but her can be claiming them.
And another thing is , you'd still have to take in enough income to justify claiming the child. You cant really claim 6 kids as dependents and make $10 G's. The tax preparer will let that ride but the IRS will nab you quick.
Maybe thats the list you're thinking of "People who are going to be audited" Accuracy penalties(75% of your underpayment plus ,the longer ago you got away with it the more the penalty adds up) on top of being banned from EIC for like a decade
 
What I'd like to know is how someone could be so ignorant of the tax codes to think that a dependent could be claimed by two people. This "discussion" shouldn't even need to go further than this fact. How the fuck is someone going to get extra SNAP if they don't have the dependents to claim while having someone else claim them to get the child credits? Between the IRS and child services, how the fuck would people get away with it en masse?

GBAstar, you are one ignorant motherfucker.
 
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[quote name='dohdough']What I'd like to know is how someone could be so ignorant of the tax codes to think that a dependent could be claimed by two people. This "discussion" shouldn't even need to go further than this fact. [/QUOTE]

What can I say? I tried. Dude asked for long answers ..

Truth is people do (try) to claim dependents multiple times (for tax purposes not snap benies)
They get caught though.
Say married couples who file separately instead of jointly: Then each parent claims the same kid/kids. Even if they get caught they can BS their way out of it. The "I didnt know" maneuver. (not I didnt know it was illegal but , I didnt know my husband was claiming them)
Its a pretty big fraud among military couples where I live. They get married young and dumb and they're poor. Thats the reality of it (I know, it isnt what GBA was talking about at all)
And more so GBA , you started out saying "welfare recipient" and then that element dissolved from being a factor in your response.
 
[quote name='Clak']Since I actually studied how search engines work in college, let me clue you in a bit to what doh is trying to tell your dumb ass. You see what Google lets you see, no differently than what the news outlets choose to tell you. If Google wants to bury something, they can. If they want to make it more prominent, they can. Google has come under fire in the past by accusations that they've done just that. Is it easier to publish something on the internet than television, of course it is. Does that mean it will get any real exposure? Nope.[/QUOTE]

Hmmm, something tells me that although Google can manipulate search results, you still get an exponentially larger amount of independent results than 10 news channels broadcasting exactly what they think you want to hear.

However, you studied search engines so perhaps you are right. Internet is
 
[quote name='Clak']You bring so much experience and expertise to a thread knoell, please continue.[/QUOTE]

No if I am wrong, please expand on your point that the internet is just as controlled as network news. You guys seemed to bash someone as if this was a clear point that any idiot would understand.
 
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