Purple Flames
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slidecage is the anthropomorphic personification of Poe's Law.
Rich dont pay enough but poor people dont pay any and people fine with that
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']Have you ever cited a single god damn source in your entire life?[/QUOTE]
Jeez I was hoping you would ask if he's ever taken an English class in his life. Your grammar is
ing atrocious slidecage. I imagine talking to you and speaking to someone who sounds like they have rocks in their mouth.
Fix your spelling, punctuation et al then you might be taken even a mote more seriously.
Also do yourself a favor and ask someone to rip that radio out of your car and block all the Conservative talk stations. If not that use the RNC talking points you get, shred them and use them for kindling in your fireplace.
I don't love either candidate, especially Obama(I like STRONG Black men like Malcolm X and to a lesser extent MLK Jr.), but even Obama isn't tossing out bags of money to welfare recipients.
The amazing thing here is you're falling for the same tired shit some poor, stupid Black people were saying why they were voting for Obama("I'm getting Obama money."). You somehow latched onto that comment and assumed all poor Black and White people are like that. That, or you heard it on Rush Limbaugh and made like Oliver Twist asking for gruel and even licking the bowl before he asked for more.
I mean wake the up man. You want to educate yourself? Read Amy Goodman, Jeremy Scahill, Jerome Corsi, Naomi Kline, Kevin Gray, Frank Joyce, Howard Zinn, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Savage, Noam Chomsky(even though from what I heard a lot of his stuff is NWO Propaganda there is some stuff in there that isn't that crap). Who else? Max Weber and Nietzsche are definite. Ludwig Wittgenstein is worth some reading as well, if only for the sheer fact he REALIZED his Logical Positivism(is that the right one?) was full of crap and changed it after observing a group of schoolkids for a number of years.
Jeez I was hoping you would ask if he's ever taken an English class in his life. Your grammar is
ing atrocious slidecage. I imagine talking to you and speaking to someone who sounds like they have rocks in their mouth.Fix your spelling, punctuation et al then you might be taken even a mote more seriously.
Also do yourself a favor and ask someone to rip that radio out of your car and block all the Conservative talk stations. If not that use the RNC talking points you get, shred them and use them for kindling in your fireplace.
I don't love either candidate, especially Obama(I like STRONG Black men like Malcolm X and to a lesser extent MLK Jr.), but even Obama isn't tossing out bags of money to welfare recipients.
The amazing thing here is you're falling for the same tired shit some poor, stupid Black people were saying why they were voting for Obama("I'm getting Obama money."). You somehow latched onto that comment and assumed all poor Black and White people are like that. That, or you heard it on Rush Limbaugh and made like Oliver Twist asking for gruel and even licking the bowl before he asked for more.
I mean wake the
up man. You want to educate yourself? Read Amy Goodman, Jeremy Scahill, Jerome Corsi, Naomi Kline, Kevin Gray, Frank Joyce, Howard Zinn, Christopher Hitchens, Michael Savage, Noam Chomsky(even though from what I heard a lot of his stuff is NWO Propaganda there is some stuff in there that isn't that crap). Who else? Max Weber and Nietzsche are definite. Ludwig Wittgenstein is worth some reading as well, if only for the sheer fact he REALIZED his Logical Positivism(is that the right one?) was full of crap and changed it after observing a group of schoolkids for a number of years.
confoosious
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Woah woah woah. Did you just ask someone to read something? But it's so much easier to watch tv!!
Friend of Sonic
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Haha when I was in a list of forums, I saw a small portion of this topic title from the preview of the last post in Cag Vs. and knew immediately this was a Slidecage topic.
cindersphere
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Wow, came back from a broken computer to this. I am saddened.
mykevermin
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[quote name='Sarang01']You want to educate yourself? Read...Michael Savage[/QUOTE]
...buh?
...buh?
[quote name='mykevermin']...buh?[/QUOTE]
I was referring to his medical books specifically since he has a Ph.D in Holistic Medicine. He has written around 10 or more of them. The only one currently in publication is one on taking care of your kids medically.
He also has a book on stories about his childhood. Regardless how you feel about Savage's political take he's an excellent storyteller.
I was referring to his medical books specifically since he has a Ph.D in Holistic Medicine. He has written around 10 or more of them. The only one currently in publication is one on taking care of your kids medically.
He also has a book on stories about his childhood. Regardless how you feel about Savage's political take he's an excellent storyteller.
mykevermin
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Well, then say Michael Weiner, since I don't believe he's published any nutritional books under the "Savage" name. Just crap.
this topic got WAY OFF TRACK so lets try to put it back on the Tracks again
Lets take two people over a 2 year span
YEAR 1
PERSON A makes 100 million a year and pays 1 % tax (okay lets all SCREAM THEY ARE NOT PAYING ENOUGH) they will pay 1 million in taxes
PERSON B sits on their ass all day and can draw section 8 housing. get food stamps and welfare AND PAY NOTHING IN TAXES but have a child and even though they DID NOT PAY A PENNY IN TAXES they will get a tax return CHECK
YEAR 2
Person A makes another 100 million and pays 1 million in tax
Person B still sitting on their asses and under obama does not have to look for a job to keep getting welfare and decides I need more money so i just have another kid even though i cant afford the one i have now and get DOUBLE the refund check at the end of year
so in two years what have these two people done
PERSON A Might of earned 200 Million but paid 2 million in taxes
PERSON B earned no money sat on their asses all day. Got free housing. Got free food stamps. Got a check every week for doing nothing and GOT A REFUND CHECK ON TAXES THEY NEVER PAID
so someone tell me why PERSON A is the BAD GUY and PERSON B is so loved
Lets take two people over a 2 year span
YEAR 1
PERSON A makes 100 million a year and pays 1 % tax (okay lets all SCREAM THEY ARE NOT PAYING ENOUGH) they will pay 1 million in taxes
PERSON B sits on their ass all day and can draw section 8 housing. get food stamps and welfare AND PAY NOTHING IN TAXES but have a child and even though they DID NOT PAY A PENNY IN TAXES they will get a tax return CHECK
YEAR 2
Person A makes another 100 million and pays 1 million in tax
Person B still sitting on their asses and under obama does not have to look for a job to keep getting welfare and decides I need more money so i just have another kid even though i cant afford the one i have now and get DOUBLE the refund check at the end of year
so in two years what have these two people done
PERSON A Might of earned 200 Million but paid 2 million in taxes
PERSON B earned no money sat on their asses all day. Got free housing. Got free food stamps. Got a check every week for doing nothing and GOT A REFUND CHECK ON TAXES THEY NEVER PAID
so someone tell me why PERSON A is the BAD GUY and PERSON B is so loved
[quote name='Clak']"Holistic medicine"...:lol:
Isn't this the guy who once said autistic kids just need to be slapped around some?[/QUOTE]
Michael Weiner Savage is a pathetic wet queef stain in the nation's collective panties. He's been banned from entering the UK because he's an extremist who tries to incite violence. He is the offspring of a donkey and a pig, then born with an extra chromosome.
I fear I've been too subtle. I don't care for him much.
Isn't this the guy who once said autistic kids just need to be slapped around some?[/QUOTE]
Michael Weiner Savage is a pathetic wet queef stain in the nation's collective panties. He's been banned from entering the UK because he's an extremist who tries to incite violence. He is the offspring of a donkey and a pig, then born with an extra chromosome.
I fear I've been too subtle. I don't care for him much.
Did you even read what I posted slidecage?
Your statement is a broad generalization towards people on Welfare. Your statement on rich people seems to be quite minimized.
You say 1% of a rich persons worth as if they were really paying something, if their tax is that low. Consider the cost of the commons(clean water, streets, bridges, roads in good shape, etc.). That basic stuff I mentioned costs more than 1% of a rich persons tax burden considering their use of it is above what even a person on Welfare will use it for. Someone using the Commons for subsistence purposes should not be expected to pay a tax burden on par with or greater then a rich person who is using it for luxury purposes(see anything relegated to entertainment purposes above transportation). What I am saying is that anyone shopping for groceries should not be expected to pay any sort of tax on that food(pre-prepared food in the store such as Deli Meats and Cheeses, etc. do not count). This is truly a human need and should be treated accordingly.
If the tax gap isn't being covered by removing the food tax then adjust the percentage on other items accordingly.
Slidecage you are also erroneous in your assumption that the rich man creates all that wealth separately. Whether you choose to argue their heavy use of the Commons as subsidized by the government facilitates this or by a more scientific example. I'm thinking someone complaining, or showing frustration on something may inspire someone to create a product that no one has ever created. In this society itself will always bring the genius mind to a conclusion or some money-making opportunity they may never have conceived of.
For the Welfare person specifically I'm sure I could do logistics to prove the 50" or up TV with 1-3 TV's argument is bullshit especially 2 and up unless your argument is taking into account good closeout sales or they're somehow starving themselves. Let us not forget having clothing in good condition as well.
edit: Berzirk I can't say Savage's rampant Zionism and Homophobia endear myself to him but I highly respect his medical credentials. If you heard him talk about his childhood stories you would have to recognize he is extremely talented on that end, even if you didn't respect him. If you did not come to this conclusion I would just label you a hater.
Your statement is a broad generalization towards people on Welfare. Your statement on rich people seems to be quite minimized.
You say 1% of a rich persons worth as if they were really paying something, if their tax is that low. Consider the cost of the commons(clean water, streets, bridges, roads in good shape, etc.). That basic stuff I mentioned costs more than 1% of a rich persons tax burden considering their use of it is above what even a person on Welfare will use it for. Someone using the Commons for subsistence purposes should not be expected to pay a tax burden on par with or greater then a rich person who is using it for luxury purposes(see anything relegated to entertainment purposes above transportation). What I am saying is that anyone shopping for groceries should not be expected to pay any sort of tax on that food(pre-prepared food in the store such as Deli Meats and Cheeses, etc. do not count). This is truly a human need and should be treated accordingly.
If the tax gap isn't being covered by removing the food tax then adjust the percentage on other items accordingly.
Slidecage you are also erroneous in your assumption that the rich man creates all that wealth separately. Whether you choose to argue their heavy use of the Commons as subsidized by the government facilitates this or by a more scientific example. I'm thinking someone complaining, or showing frustration on something may inspire someone to create a product that no one has ever created. In this society itself will always bring the genius mind to a conclusion or some money-making opportunity they may never have conceived of.
For the Welfare person specifically I'm sure I could do logistics to prove the 50" or up TV with 1-3 TV's argument is bullshit especially 2 and up unless your argument is taking into account good closeout sales or they're somehow starving themselves. Let us not forget having clothing in good condition as well.
edit: Berzirk I can't say Savage's rampant Zionism and Homophobia endear myself to him but I highly respect his medical credentials. If you heard him talk about his childhood stories you would have to recognize he is extremely talented on that end, even if you didn't respect him. If you did not come to this conclusion I would just label you a hater.
[quote name='Sarang01']
edit: Berzirk I can't say Savage's rampant Zionism and Homophobia endear myself to him but I highly respect his medical credentials. If you heard him talk about his childhood stories you would have to recognize he is extremely talented on that end, even if you didn't respect him. If you did not come to this conclusion I would just label you a hater.[/QUOTE]
That's like saying a Klansman is a great dentist. I have zero respect for Weiner, he's lower than a pig, his words disgust me, his whiney accent makes me want to punch babies in the kidneys, and he's a hate/fear-mongerer. He's worse than Rush IMO and that's saying a lot. I hate Michael Savage Weiner. The label is accurate.
Charles Barkley said it best, "See he's really smart, but he's a dumbass."
edit: Berzirk I can't say Savage's rampant Zionism and Homophobia endear myself to him but I highly respect his medical credentials. If you heard him talk about his childhood stories you would have to recognize he is extremely talented on that end, even if you didn't respect him. If you did not come to this conclusion I would just label you a hater.[/QUOTE]
That's like saying a Klansman is a great dentist. I have zero respect for Weiner, he's lower than a pig, his words disgust me, his whiney accent makes me want to punch babies in the kidneys, and he's a hate/fear-mongerer. He's worse than Rush IMO and that's saying a lot. I hate Michael Savage Weiner. The label is accurate.
Charles Barkley said it best, "See he's really smart, but he's a dumbass."
[quote name='slidecage']so someone tell me why PERSON A is the BAD GUY and PERSON B is so loved[/QUOTE]
I can play this game too:
Person A is a multimillionaire businessowner who inherited his company from his father and uses every loophole he can possibly find to pay far less in taxes than any of his workers. His company also benefits from millions of dollars a year in subsidies, tax breaks, and refunds from the government while paying a tax rate substantially lower than small businesses thanks to off-shore tax havens.
Person B is a single-mother who, at the age of 32, has contracted a rare and debilitating form of multiple sclerosis. It progresses fast and the mother, who up until this point has been making a healthy income and contributing to society, becomes bedridden, losing all forms of income, while her medical costs quickly eat through any savings she has. She gets put on welfare and now has to try to make ends meet on significantly less money than she was previously making while dealing with her lowered quality of life.
So tell me why Person B is the bad guy while person A is so loved?
Neither of our examples are painting a complete picture, however. I would definitely concede that there are plenty of people out there who are taking advantage of the welfare system, but you should concede that not everyone is like that, that there are plenty of people out there that are benefiting from it who have little choice and would much rather they didn't have to take a hand out. Despite what you may think, it's not as glorious as it might sound.
I can play this game too:
Person A is a multimillionaire businessowner who inherited his company from his father and uses every loophole he can possibly find to pay far less in taxes than any of his workers. His company also benefits from millions of dollars a year in subsidies, tax breaks, and refunds from the government while paying a tax rate substantially lower than small businesses thanks to off-shore tax havens.
Person B is a single-mother who, at the age of 32, has contracted a rare and debilitating form of multiple sclerosis. It progresses fast and the mother, who up until this point has been making a healthy income and contributing to society, becomes bedridden, losing all forms of income, while her medical costs quickly eat through any savings she has. She gets put on welfare and now has to try to make ends meet on significantly less money than she was previously making while dealing with her lowered quality of life.
So tell me why Person B is the bad guy while person A is so loved?
Neither of our examples are painting a complete picture, however. I would definitely concede that there are plenty of people out there who are taking advantage of the welfare system, but you should concede that not everyone is like that, that there are plenty of people out there that are benefiting from it who have little choice and would much rather they didn't have to take a hand out. Despite what you may think, it's not as glorious as it might sound.
No offense to you, but why exactly are you heralding his "medical credentials"? The man isn't a MD, and as you said, his degree is in "holistic medicine", which in and of itself makes me suspicious. Brings forth memories of an Indiana Ayurveda "doctor" telling me about my "energies" and such. More than likely he's as full of shit when it comes to medicine as he is with politics.
Oh I forgot, Penicillin didn't come from mold. It came from something wonderful a Pharmaceutical company cooked up. Give me a break.
I'd be more willing to listen to a person with a Ph.D in Hollistic medicine then the average doctor who came out of Medical School nowadays. One need only consider they'd likely sound like a Pharmaceutical schill after being nice and indoctrinated to it.
Whating energies? I'm talking about cures that come from nature and proactive means of preventing something by eating well. You talk as if Eastern Medicine is full of shit. I'd be willing to argue that if common sanitary practices were used back when disease was frequent the death rate would be substantially lowered. In the process this propagandic nonsense that has plagued Western Medicine on plant cures likely since the mid-20th Century would largely be nonexistent.
I'd be more willing to listen to a person with a Ph.D in Hollistic medicine then the average doctor who came out of Medical School nowadays. One need only consider they'd likely sound like a Pharmaceutical schill after being nice and indoctrinated to it.
What
ing energies? I'm talking about cures that come from nature and proactive means of preventing something by eating well. You talk as if Eastern Medicine is full of shit. I'd be willing to argue that if common sanitary practices were used back when disease was frequent the death rate would be substantially lowered. In the process this propagandic nonsense that has plagued Western Medicine on plant cures likely since the mid-20th Century would largely be nonexistent.[quote name='slidecage']this topic got WAY OFF TRACK so lets try to put it back on the Tracks again
Lets take two people over a 2 year span
YEAR 1
PERSON A makes 100 million a year and pays 1 % tax (okay lets all SCREAM THEY ARE NOT PAYING ENOUGH) they will pay 1 million in taxes
PERSON B sits on their ass all day and can draw section 8 housing. get food stamps and welfare AND PAY NOTHING IN TAXES but have a child and even though they DID NOT PAY A PENNY IN TAXES they will get a tax return CHECK
YEAR 2
Person A makes another 100 million and pays 1 million in tax
Person B still sitting on their asses and under obama does not have to look for a job to keep getting welfare and decides I need more money so i just have another kid even though i cant afford the one i have now and get DOUBLE the refund check at the end of year
so in two years what have these two people done
PERSON A Might of earned 200 Million but paid 2 million in taxes
PERSON B earned no money sat on their asses all day. Got free housing. Got free food stamps. Got a check every week for doing nothing and GOT A REFUND CHECK ON TAXES THEY NEVER PAID
so someone tell me why PERSON A is the BAD GUY and PERSON B is so loved[/QUOTE]
Well holy shit, I guess we can shutter up the congressional budget office, we've got slidecage on the job!
The amount of taxes you pay doesn't make you a good or bad person. Hell, I'm sure you're paying your fair share and I still hate you. Of course, by siding with the party that has no interest in you paying lower taxes (or hell if Romney has his way you're gonna pay a higher rate than him and his buddies) you've already shown yourself to be pretty self-loathing so I guess hating you is something we can both agree on.
Lets take two people over a 2 year span
YEAR 1
PERSON A makes 100 million a year and pays 1 % tax (okay lets all SCREAM THEY ARE NOT PAYING ENOUGH) they will pay 1 million in taxes
PERSON B sits on their ass all day and can draw section 8 housing. get food stamps and welfare AND PAY NOTHING IN TAXES but have a child and even though they DID NOT PAY A PENNY IN TAXES they will get a tax return CHECK
YEAR 2
Person A makes another 100 million and pays 1 million in tax
Person B still sitting on their asses and under obama does not have to look for a job to keep getting welfare and decides I need more money so i just have another kid even though i cant afford the one i have now and get DOUBLE the refund check at the end of year
so in two years what have these two people done
PERSON A Might of earned 200 Million but paid 2 million in taxes
PERSON B earned no money sat on their asses all day. Got free housing. Got free food stamps. Got a check every week for doing nothing and GOT A REFUND CHECK ON TAXES THEY NEVER PAID
so someone tell me why PERSON A is the BAD GUY and PERSON B is so loved[/QUOTE]
Well holy shit, I guess we can shutter up the congressional budget office, we've got slidecage on the job!
The amount of taxes you pay doesn't make you a good or bad person. Hell, I'm sure you're paying your fair share and I still hate you. Of course, by siding with the party that has no interest in you paying lower taxes (or hell if Romney has his way you're gonna pay a higher rate than him and his buddies) you've already shown yourself to be pretty self-loathing so I guess hating you is something we can both agree on.
cancerman1120
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Clak']No offense to you, but why exactly are you heralding his "medical credentials"? The man isn't a MD, and as you said, his degree is in "holistic medicine", which in and of itself makes me suspicious. Brings forth memories of an Indiana Ayurveda "doctor" telling me about my "energies" and such. More than likely he's as full of shit when it comes to medicine as he is with politics.[/QUOTE]
I have a Ph.D. in pharmacology but I still would not be trying to administer too much health advice since my training is in research and not actual application of medicine.
My brother-in-law has been convinced by someone from his church that "ionized water" is better for him and since he was diagnosed and treated for colon cancer this past year he going to buy an ionizer (upwards of $2,000) for his family. When he was diagnosed last year he wanted to first try this Protocel stuff that people from his church were pushing on him. I had to basically beg my sister to convince him to do chemo first and eventually with our prodding and the doctors he did. He is definitely in that fundamental conservative Christian group. It is crazy they are so anti-science and anti-government that they are more willing to believe this pseudoscience BS since some they know at church says it works. I am trying to get my sister to make him reconsider this ionizer crap (says it makes your water more alkaline and rearranges water molecule so it hydrates better) so I hope he will change his mind. All I told him was as soon as that water hits your stomach the gastric acid basically neutralizes and when it enter the blood stream the body keeps it at neutral pH but I doubt it will matter what "science says". Sorry for the tangent.
I have a Ph.D. in pharmacology but I still would not be trying to administer too much health advice since my training is in research and not actual application of medicine.
My brother-in-law has been convinced by someone from his church that "ionized water" is better for him and since he was diagnosed and treated for colon cancer this past year he going to buy an ionizer (upwards of $2,000) for his family. When he was diagnosed last year he wanted to first try this Protocel stuff that people from his church were pushing on him. I had to basically beg my sister to convince him to do chemo first and eventually with our prodding and the doctors he did. He is definitely in that fundamental conservative Christian group. It is crazy they are so anti-science and anti-government that they are more willing to believe this pseudoscience BS since some they know at church says it works. I am trying to get my sister to make him reconsider this ionizer crap (says it makes your water more alkaline and rearranges water molecule so it hydrates better) so I hope he will change his mind. All I told him was as soon as that water hits your stomach the gastric acid basically neutralizes and when it enter the blood stream the body keeps it at neutral pH but I doubt it will matter what "science says". Sorry for the tangent.
Oh no problem, I've got family like that too. Won't listen to their doctor, oh but so and so from work said.....
They're the same people who have been convinced that chugging orange juice can cure damn near any sort of infection. Hell my own mother went through an herbal medicine phase, echinacea this, st. john's wort that. Can you imagine if any of that worked how much money the pharmaceutical companies could make selling it? If echinacea did jack, Pfizer would be selling it by the bottle and have ads for it plastered everywhere.
Don't even get me started on the vitamins, oh the vitamins...
They're the same people who have been convinced that chugging orange juice can cure damn near any sort of infection. Hell my own mother went through an herbal medicine phase, echinacea this, st. john's wort that. Can you imagine if any of that worked how much money the pharmaceutical companies could make selling it? If echinacea did jack, Pfizer would be selling it by the bottle and have ads for it plastered everywhere.
Don't even get me started on the vitamins, oh the vitamins...
Hopefully if he gets radiation treatments he doesn't decide to be stupid enough to try and have kids afterwards cancerman. One can only worry how bad the genetic aftereffects would be, the kid being riddled with allergies, Asthma or Diabetes when it is non-existent in the family tree.
Don't put Hollistic and Homeopathic people such as myself in that camp. I have no problem with stem cells as long as they are not used to cure Cancer. Curing a disability where there is definite paralysis and the nerves are destroyed that's fine. Using stem cells and giving royalty money(to people who never created said stem cells) to companies for curing Cancer when I'm sure there is a plant cure(royalty free, hint, hint) is ridiculous.
edit: Clak oh man we should never question our doctor right? Forgive me if I think that we might find out something they don't know since they've left Medical School. Doctors are not infallible and while they may know more then most patients any doctor worth their weight in salt should listen to you if you've done some research. I'm not referring to someone who is talking out of their ass either but who has actually looked around, done research and the doctor has dismissed them. I don't think most doctors are Romantics though and don't carry a heavy respect and reverence for Nature accordingly.
Clak are you this absurd? The Pharmaceutical companies have frequently tried to discredit things like herbs that(testing by the FDA, who've been in the back pocket of the Pharmaceutical industry for years) work even moderately BECAUSE they work moderately or more. They can't make money off royalties off of said herbs so the margin for making money off of them, even high quality, is slim to none given the amount of competitors you have. Even if it's a big industry and makes millions each year, how much money do you think goes to the companies that are not giant?
Do you think it's a coincidence that Aspirin is widely used BECAUSE it needed a buffering process to take in concentrated form? That buffering process happened to be patented by one company for decades, Bayer, so they made a fortune off it because they were the only option for taking it in pill form. This is likely why Aspirin is taken seriously as a plant treatment. Do you think that only Aspirin(Willow or White Willow Bark I believe it's called) or Caffeine are the only legitimate plant derived treatments and cures for various ailments? I'd call bullshit and say that's ridiculous.
Don't put Hollistic and Homeopathic people such as myself in that camp. I have no problem with stem cells as long as they are not used to cure Cancer. Curing a disability where there is definite paralysis and the nerves are destroyed that's fine. Using stem cells and giving royalty money(to people who never created said stem cells) to companies for curing Cancer when I'm sure there is a plant cure(royalty free, hint, hint) is ridiculous.
edit: Clak oh man we should never question our doctor right? Forgive me if I think that we might find out something they don't know since they've left Medical School. Doctors are not infallible and while they may know more then most patients any doctor worth their weight in salt should listen to you if you've done some research. I'm not referring to someone who is talking out of their ass either but who has actually looked around, done research and the doctor has dismissed them. I don't think most doctors are Romantics though and don't carry a heavy respect and reverence for Nature accordingly.
Clak are you this absurd? The Pharmaceutical companies have frequently tried to discredit things like herbs that(testing by the FDA, who've been in the back pocket of the Pharmaceutical industry for years) work even moderately BECAUSE they work moderately or more. They can't make money off royalties off of said herbs so the margin for making money off of them, even high quality, is slim to none given the amount of competitors you have. Even if it's a big industry and makes millions each year, how much money do you think goes to the companies that are not giant?
Do you think it's a coincidence that Aspirin is widely used BECAUSE it needed a buffering process to take in concentrated form? That buffering process happened to be patented by one company for decades, Bayer, so they made a fortune off it because they were the only option for taking it in pill form. This is likely why Aspirin is taken seriously as a plant treatment. Do you think that only Aspirin(Willow or White Willow Bark I believe it's called) or Caffeine are the only legitimate plant derived treatments and cures for various ailments? I'd call bullshit and say that's ridiculous.
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[quote name='Sarang01']Oh I forgot, Penicillin didn't come from mold. It came from something wonderful a Pharmaceutical company cooked up. Give me a break.
I'd be more willing to listen to a person with a Ph.D in Hollistic medicine then the average doctor who came out of Medical School nowadays. One need only consider they'd likely sound like a Pharmaceutical schill after being nice and indoctrinated to it.
Whating energies? I'm talking about cures that come from nature and proactive means of preventing something by eating well. You talk as if Eastern Medicine is full of shit. I'd be willing to argue that if common sanitary practices were used back when disease was frequent the death rate would be substantially lowered. In the process this propagandic nonsense that has plagued Western Medicine on plant cures likely since the mid-20th Century would largely be nonexistent.[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between discovering something in nature that can be proven to work, taking that and synthesizing it, and using it to fight infection. Comparing god damn penicillin to some herbal cure is so ridiculous I shouldn't have to explain why it is. Eating well has absolutely nothing to do with medicine, that's nutrition. You don't need medicine to eat well, just common sense. As far as ayurveda goes, you look it up, if you really follow the holistic stuff, you should know about it. Personally when I went to a clinic in India I could barely keep from laughing. Poor people being convinced that this clinic could cure cancer with herbal medicine and spiritual nonsense. Trust me, if I ever get cancer I'd rather go to John Hopkins than some place like that, indoctrinated doctors and all.
I'd be more willing to listen to a person with a Ph.D in Hollistic medicine then the average doctor who came out of Medical School nowadays. One need only consider they'd likely sound like a Pharmaceutical schill after being nice and indoctrinated to it.
What
ing energies? I'm talking about cures that come from nature and proactive means of preventing something by eating well. You talk as if Eastern Medicine is full of shit. I'd be willing to argue that if common sanitary practices were used back when disease was frequent the death rate would be substantially lowered. In the process this propagandic nonsense that has plagued Western Medicine on plant cures likely since the mid-20th Century would largely be nonexistent.[/QUOTE]There is a difference between discovering something in nature that can be proven to work, taking that and synthesizing it, and using it to fight infection. Comparing god damn penicillin to some herbal cure is so ridiculous I shouldn't have to explain why it is. Eating well has absolutely nothing to do with medicine, that's nutrition. You don't need medicine to eat well, just common sense. As far as ayurveda goes, you look it up, if you really follow the holistic stuff, you should know about it. Personally when I went to a clinic in India I could barely keep from laughing. Poor people being convinced that this clinic could cure cancer with herbal medicine and spiritual nonsense. Trust me, if I ever get cancer I'd rather go to John Hopkins than some place like that, indoctrinated doctors and all.
[quote name='Clak']Oh no problem, I've got family like that too. Won't listen to their doctor, oh but so and so from work said.....
They're the same people who have been convinced that chugging orange juice can cure damn near any sort of infection. Hell my own mother went through an herbal medicine phase, echinacea this, st. john's wort that. Can you imagine if any of that worked how much money the pharmaceutical companies could make selling it? If echinacea did jack, Pfizer would be selling it by the bottle and have ads for it plastered everywhere.
Don't even get me started on the vitamins, oh the vitamins...[/QUOTE]
Hey, I chug oj when I'm sick! It helps to keep me hydrated and give me some energy from all the sugar.:lol:
[quote name='Sarang01']Hopefully if he gets radiation treatments he doesn't decide to be stupid enough to try and have kids afterwards cancerman. One can only worry how bad the genetic aftereffects would be, the kid being riddled with allergies, Asthma or Diabetes when it is non-existent in the family tree.
Don't put Hollistic and Homeopathic people such as myself in that camp. I have no problem with stem cells as long as they are not used to cure Cancer. Curing a disability where there is definite paralysis and the nerves are destroyed that's fine. Using stem cells and giving royalty money(to people who never created said stem cells) to companies for curing Cancer when I'm sure there is a plant cure(royalty free, hint, hint) is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Holy balls, man. At least learn a little about the actual process of cancer and it's conventional treatments before you start talking shit about it. After reading that mess, it's obvious that you literally have no clue about what you're saying.
They're the same people who have been convinced that chugging orange juice can cure damn near any sort of infection. Hell my own mother went through an herbal medicine phase, echinacea this, st. john's wort that. Can you imagine if any of that worked how much money the pharmaceutical companies could make selling it? If echinacea did jack, Pfizer would be selling it by the bottle and have ads for it plastered everywhere.
Don't even get me started on the vitamins, oh the vitamins...[/QUOTE]
Hey, I chug oj when I'm sick! It helps to keep me hydrated and give me some energy from all the sugar.:lol:
[quote name='Sarang01']Hopefully if he gets radiation treatments he doesn't decide to be stupid enough to try and have kids afterwards cancerman. One can only worry how bad the genetic aftereffects would be, the kid being riddled with allergies, Asthma or Diabetes when it is non-existent in the family tree.
Don't put Hollistic and Homeopathic people such as myself in that camp. I have no problem with stem cells as long as they are not used to cure Cancer. Curing a disability where there is definite paralysis and the nerves are destroyed that's fine. Using stem cells and giving royalty money(to people who never created said stem cells) to companies for curing Cancer when I'm sure there is a plant cure(royalty free, hint, hint) is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Holy
balls, man. At least learn a little about the actual process of cancer and it's conventional treatments before you start talking shit about it. After reading that mess, it's obvious that you literally have no clue about what you're saying.[quote name='Sarang01']Hopefully if he gets radiation treatments he doesn't decide to be stupid enough to try and have kids afterwards cancerman. One can only worry how bad the genetic aftereffects would be, the kid being riddled with allergies, Asthma or Diabetes when it is non-existent in the family tree.
Don't put Hollistic and Homeopathic people such as myself in that camp. I have no problem with stem cells as long as they are not used to cure Cancer. Curing a disability where there is definite paralysis and the nerves are destroyed that's fine. Using stem cells and giving royalty money(to people who never created said stem cells) to companies for curing Cancer when I'm sure there is a plant cure(royalty free, hint, hint) is ridiculous.
edit: Clak oh man we should never question our doctor right? Forgive me if I think that we might find out something they don't know since they've left Medical School. Doctors are not infallible and while they may know more then most patients any doctor worth their weight in salt should listen to you if you've done some research. I'm not referring to someone who is talking out of their ass either but who has actually looked around, done research and the doctor has dismissed them. I don't think most doctors are Romantics though and don't carry a heavy respect and reverence for Nature accordingly.[/QUOTE]No, doctors aren't infallible, but they have more education than you get with a week of doing research on the internet.
Don't put Hollistic and Homeopathic people such as myself in that camp. I have no problem with stem cells as long as they are not used to cure Cancer. Curing a disability where there is definite paralysis and the nerves are destroyed that's fine. Using stem cells and giving royalty money(to people who never created said stem cells) to companies for curing Cancer when I'm sure there is a plant cure(royalty free, hint, hint) is ridiculous.
edit: Clak oh man we should never question our doctor right? Forgive me if I think that we might find out something they don't know since they've left Medical School. Doctors are not infallible and while they may know more then most patients any doctor worth their weight in salt should listen to you if you've done some research. I'm not referring to someone who is talking out of their ass either but who has actually looked around, done research and the doctor has dismissed them. I don't think most doctors are Romantics though and don't carry a heavy respect and reverence for Nature accordingly.[/QUOTE]No, doctors aren't infallible, but they have more education than you get with a week of doing research on the internet.
[quote name='dohdough']Hey, I chug oj when I'm sick! It helps to keep me hydrated and give me some energy from all the sugar.:lol:
Holy balls, man. At least learn a little about the actual process of cancer and it's conventional treatments before you start talking shit about it. After reading that mess, it's obvious that you literally have no clue about what you're saying.[/QUOTE]
They often times don't, can't tell you how many people I know and have met like him. They read inconclusive studies on the internet, or hear something from someone they respect, and take it to be the truth. And in a pre-existing distrust of doctors and you get this. They seem to hang out at GNC a lot.
Holy
balls, man. At least learn a little about the actual process of cancer and it's conventional treatments before you start talking shit about it. After reading that mess, it's obvious that you literally have no clue about what you're saying.[/QUOTE]They often times don't, can't tell you how many people I know and have met like him. They read inconclusive studies on the internet, or hear something from someone they respect, and take it to be the truth. And in a pre-existing distrust of doctors and you get this. They seem to hang out at GNC a lot.
GNC? Give me a break.
I just have a healthy respect and reverence for Nature which I believe is absent from many doctors. I will also question one if I feel it's necessary. I would ask how many doctors treating Hodgkins Disease know that stage one can be cured by a plant from the Rainforrest known as the Rosey Periwinkle.
I was originally going to put in Gene Therapy for that explanation but remembered it doesn't work for the Paralysis explanation. Bottom line, I would be more open to both Gene Therapy and even Stem Cells in anything if some company didn't receive a royalty check based upon patenting something they never should have been allowed to. As it stands it doesn't even look like that is fixing itself sadly.
For radiation treatment we know it destroys the body, especially the immune system, so to me the odds are if you have kids after undergoing it that they will likely have some malady, be it terrible or a terrible nuisance jumps up substantially. Better you store your semen or eggs beforehand and if you're a woman afterwards get a surrogate to bear your child.
For the Herb explanation if you can't read between the lines that there is money in selling something patented and subsequently legitimied(z key ised), be it a mixture or a buffer, I pity you.
I'm very disappointed in you of all people dohdough given I'd expect you to have a healthy sense of questioning for anyone in a position of authority and to not even place them into a God position.
I just have a healthy respect and reverence for Nature which I believe is absent from many doctors. I will also question one if I feel it's necessary. I would ask how many doctors treating Hodgkins Disease know that stage one can be cured by a plant from the Rainforrest known as the Rosey Periwinkle.
I was originally going to put in Gene Therapy for that explanation but remembered it doesn't work for the Paralysis explanation. Bottom line, I would be more open to both Gene Therapy and even Stem Cells in anything if some company didn't receive a royalty check based upon patenting something they never should have been allowed to. As it stands it doesn't even look like that is fixing itself sadly.
For radiation treatment we know it destroys the body, especially the immune system, so to me the odds are if you have kids after undergoing it that they will likely have some malady, be it terrible or a terrible nuisance jumps up substantially. Better you store your semen or eggs beforehand and if you're a woman afterwards get a surrogate to bear your child.
For the Herb explanation if you can't read between the lines that there is money in selling something patented and subsequently legitimied(z key is
ed), be it a mixture or a buffer, I pity you.I'm very disappointed in you of all people dohdough given I'd expect you to have a healthy sense of questioning for anyone in a position of authority and to not even place them into a God position.
[quote name='berzirk']That's like saying a Klansman is a great dentist. I have zero respect for Weiner, he's lower than a pig, his words disgust me, his whiney accent makes me want to punch babies in the kidneys, and he's a hate/fear-mongerer. He's worse than Rush IMO and that's saying a lot. I hate Michael Savage Weiner. The label is accurate.
Charles Barkley said it best, "See he's really smart, but he's a dumbass."[/QUOTE]
This explains a lot about Sarang actually.
Charles Barkley said it best, "See he's really smart, but he's a dumbass."[/QUOTE]
This explains a lot about Sarang actually.
[quote name='Clak']There is a difference between discovering something in nature that can be proven to work, taking that and synthesizing it, and using it to fight infection. Comparing god damn penicillin to some herbal cure is so ridiculous I shouldn't have to explain why it is. Eating well has absolutely nothing to do with medicine, that's nutrition. You don't need medicine to eat well, just common sense. As far as ayurveda goes, you look it up, if you really follow the holistic stuff, you should know about it. Personally when I went to a clinic in India I could barely keep from laughing. Poor people being convinced that this clinic could cure cancer with herbal medicine and spiritual nonsense. Trust me, if I ever get cancer I'd rather go to John Hopkins than some place like that, indoctrinated doctors and all.[/QUOTE]
I brought the argument of Penicillin specifically because I believe there ARE doctors that dismiss cures in Nature off hand, thinking every cure will come out of pill form in a Pharmaceutical lab that has no connection to Nature or a fleeting one at that. Some even go so far as to show a level of contempt with Nature.
The reason I, again, bring up eating well is I broach the question: Will the doctor prescribe a pill instead of suggesting a better diet that might alleviate some of the symptoms or eliminate them entirely? We know Rickets is a Vitamin D based deficiency for example.
Part of your feeling that a Natural/Herbal cure is laughable I would argue was due in part to the fact that the treatments during the Middle Ages didn't work. It's not a fair argument to make that all of them didn't work when you consider the fact disease was RAMPANT during this time for the fact that common sanitary practices we take now were not applied. In the process preventable infections were all the time ravaging the human immune system. Sadly, even in the early 20th Century in parts of America we could argue those practices were not observed which I suspect is likely why the early Flu Epidemic was so bad.
In terms of Ayurvedic medicine it broaches the question how much of that is just read directly from the Rig Veda or some other Vedic text. I would have to look into the background to see how much of it is truly legitimate.
I brought the argument of Penicillin specifically because I believe there ARE doctors that dismiss cures in Nature off hand, thinking every cure will come out of pill form in a Pharmaceutical lab that has no connection to Nature or a fleeting one at that. Some even go so far as to show a level of contempt with Nature.
The reason I, again, bring up eating well is I broach the question: Will the doctor prescribe a pill instead of suggesting a better diet that might alleviate some of the symptoms or eliminate them entirely? We know Rickets is a Vitamin D based deficiency for example.
Part of your feeling that a Natural/Herbal cure is laughable I would argue was due in part to the fact that the treatments during the Middle Ages didn't work. It's not a fair argument to make that all of them didn't work when you consider the fact disease was RAMPANT during this time for the fact that common sanitary practices we take now were not applied. In the process preventable infections were all the time ravaging the human immune system. Sadly, even in the early 20th Century in parts of America we could argue those practices were not observed which I suspect is likely why the early Flu Epidemic was so bad.
In terms of Ayurvedic medicine it broaches the question how much of that is just read directly from the Rig Veda or some other Vedic text. I would have to look into the background to see how much of it is truly legitimate.
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Trancendental
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[quote name='Sarang01']I brought the argument of Penicillin specifically because I believe there ARE doctors that dismiss cures in Nature off hand, thinking every cure will come out of pill form in a Pharmaceutical lab that has no connection to Nature or a fleeting one at that. Some even go so far as to show a level of contempt with Nature.[/QUOTE]
I don't agree everything you said but I have to say I fully agree with this.
I kept going to the doc and specialists because I had chronic sinus pain and they kept giving me antibiotics and nasal sprays. Then I got fed up and started experimenting with my diet - and I found out that I was somewhat lactose intolerant. 10 years of suffering because I didn't really understand what doctors are all about.
Now I understand that if it isn't life-threatening, docs typically offer only short-term quick-fixes. They seem to know little outside how to cut you up, sew you up and which antibiotic to give you. It's great, but it's only a piece of the puzzle. If you want to be truly healthy then you have to do the research yourself.
I don't agree everything you said but I have to say I fully agree with this.
I kept going to the doc and specialists because I had chronic sinus pain and they kept giving me antibiotics and nasal sprays. Then I got fed up and started experimenting with my diet - and I found out that I was somewhat lactose intolerant. 10 years of suffering because I didn't really understand what doctors are all about.
Now I understand that if it isn't life-threatening, docs typically offer only short-term quick-fixes. They seem to know little outside how to cut you up, sew you up and which antibiotic to give you. It's great, but it's only a piece of the puzzle. If you want to be truly healthy then you have to do the research yourself.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Sarang01']Part of your feeling that a Natural/Herbal cure is laughable I would argue was due in part to the fact that the treatments during the Middle Ages didn't work.[/QUOTE]
I think for cures to the bad stuff like cancer or hardcore bacteria, modern medicine has the market cornered.
But I have found excellent organic teas for soothing my throat when cough drops couldn't cut it, organic herbal remedies for boosting my immune system, etc etc To dismiss all herbal remedies is to be missing out on something that could make your life immeasurably better.
I think for cures to the bad stuff like cancer or hardcore bacteria, modern medicine has the market cornered.
But I have found excellent organic teas for soothing my throat when cough drops couldn't cut it, organic herbal remedies for boosting my immune system, etc etc To dismiss all herbal remedies is to be missing out on something that could make your life immeasurably better.
Do you really know that the stuff "boosts" your immune system though? I mean besides just not getting sick since you started taking it. See, a lot of crap is marketed as having that same effect, and I'd bet money most of it's bull. What is this tea you drink? Anything you add to it? I only ask because it's pretty common to use tea with honey and lemon for a sore throat. There's a difference thought between something that can sooth pain and a legitimate cure though. Smoke pot and you'll feel better, but I can't think of anything it cures.
Trancendental
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[quote name='Clak']Do you really know that the stuff "boosts" your immune system though? I mean besides just not getting sick since you started taking it. See, a lot of crap is marketed as having that same effect, and I'd bet money most of it's bull. What is this tea you drink? Anything you add to it? I only ask because it's pretty common to use tea with honey and lemon for a sore throat. There's a difference thought between something that can sooth pain and a legitimate cure though. Smoke pot and you'll feel better, but I can't think of anything it cures.[/QUOTE]
The tea is called "Throat Coat", bad name for an awesome product
http://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Medicinals-Throat-Coat-bag/dp/B00014DMBE
Camomile tea works great too in a pinch.
The product DOES help me heal - because it soothes my throat and lets me sleep and I don't have any nasty side effects like drowsiness (IE nyquil). I dont think the tea "cures" me but I'm taking it to relax and reduce swelling/irritation in my throat.
I take echinacea with gold root every once in awhile and mostly eat organic. Scientists have proven that organic food contains more vitamins and minerals then the conventional crap.
The tea is called "Throat Coat", bad name for an awesome product
http://www.amazon.com/Traditional-Medicinals-Throat-Coat-bag/dp/B00014DMBE
Camomile tea works great too in a pinch.
The product DOES help me heal - because it soothes my throat and lets me sleep and I don't have any nasty side effects like drowsiness (IE nyquil). I dont think the tea "cures" me but I'm taking it to relax and reduce swelling/irritation in my throat.
I take echinacea with gold root every once in awhile and mostly eat organic. Scientists have proven that organic food contains more vitamins and minerals then the conventional crap.
This thread is hilarious and although slidecage is crazy I don't disagree 100% with the point I think he was trying to make. Probably 98%... but just like I think they should be closing some of the tax loopholes on the super-rich, in a perfect world there should also be some sort of rule against buying a 60" plasma TV if you are on welfare.
yourlefthand
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[quote name='camoor'] Scientists have proven that organic food contains more vitamins and minerals then the conventional crap.[/QUOTE]
Throat Coat tea is great, but your last assertion needs some support:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food#Nutritional_value_and_taste
Throat Coat tea is great, but your last assertion needs some support:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_food#Nutritional_value_and_taste
[quote name='Javery']This thread is hilarious and although slidecage is crazy I don't disagree 100% with the point I think he was trying to make. Probably 98%... but just like I think they should be closing some of the tax loopholes on the super-rich, in a perfect world there should also be some sort of rule against buying a 60" plasma TV if you are on welfare.[/QUOTE]
The same argument was used against radios, fridges, and microwaves. Sorry, but those items simply aren't as prohibitively expensive as they were a few years ago. Even if someone on assistance spent $1,000 on a tv and bought a new one every 3 years, that still adds up to less than $1 a day and it's a cheap form of recreation that mitigates some of the social isolation effects of poverty. Even beyond that, a one time expenditure of $1k or even 2k isn't going to magically put them in poverty nor is not spending that money going to magically take them out of it. We're not talking about a brand new BMW M3 here.
The same argument was used against radios, fridges, and microwaves. Sorry, but those items simply aren't as prohibitively expensive as they were a few years ago. Even if someone on assistance spent $1,000 on a tv and bought a new one every 3 years, that still adds up to less than $1 a day and it's a cheap form of recreation that mitigates some of the social isolation effects of poverty. Even beyond that, a one time expenditure of $1k or even 2k isn't going to magically put them in poverty nor is not spending that money going to magically take them out of it. We're not talking about a brand new BMW M3 here.
[quote name='dohdough']The same argument was used against radios, fridges, and microwaves. Sorry, but those items simply aren't as prohibitively expensive as they were a few years ago. Even if someone on assistance spent $1,000 on a tv and bought a new one every 3 years, that still adds up to less than $1 a day and it's a cheap form of recreation that mitigates some of the social isolation effects of poverty. Even beyond that, a one time expenditure of $1k or even 2k isn't going to magically put them in poverty nor is not spending that money going to magically take them out of it. We're not talking about a brand new BMW M3 here.[/QUOTE]
Really? I couldn't disagree more. Sorry welfare people, buy a 20" CRT and deal with it. That dollar a day could be going towards food and other necessities. You don't need a 60" flatscreen to mitigate the social isolation effects of poverty.
[/QUOTE]Really? I couldn't disagree more. Sorry welfare people, buy a 20" CRT and deal with it. That dollar a day could be going towards food and other necessities. You don't need a 60" flatscreen to mitigate the social isolation effects of poverty.
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ID2006
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[quote name='camoor']...Scientists have proven that organic food contains more vitamins and minerals then the conventional crap.[/QUOTE]
Since you brought it up, I'll just post this here. I read it a few weeks ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19465692
Since you brought it up, I'll just post this here. I read it a few weeks ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19465692
[quote name='ID2006']Since you brought it up, I'll just post this here. I read it a few weeks ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19465692[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Fewer pesticides, sure. More nutritious? Not really.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19465692[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Fewer pesticides, sure. More nutritious? Not really.
[quote name='Clak']Exactly. Fewer pesticides, sure. More nutritious? Not really.[/QUOTE]
Yep. Read that study as well. And organic food still has pesticides as it blows over from other farms etc., just lower levels of them and not enough research on how much safer that makes it. And it doesn't matter much for things where you don't eat the peeling anyway.
There are environmental benefits to supporting organic farming though--less pesticide usage, better soil maintenance etc. As well as social issues--cage free animals, often better treatment of employees etc. But that requries looking into the farms it's coming from, buying locally etc. as a lot of organic stuff is just form the big companies who do what it takes to get the organic label, but still use near slave labor etc.
Yep. Read that study as well. And organic food still has pesticides as it blows over from other farms etc., just lower levels of them and not enough research on how much safer that makes it. And it doesn't matter much for things where you don't eat the peeling anyway.
There are environmental benefits to supporting organic farming though--less pesticide usage, better soil maintenance etc. As well as social issues--cage free animals, often better treatment of employees etc. But that requries looking into the farms it's coming from, buying locally etc. as a lot of organic stuff is just form the big companies who do what it takes to get the organic label, but still use near slave labor etc.
[quote name='Javery']Really? I couldn't disagree more. Sorry welfare people, buy a 20" CRT and deal with it. That dollar a day could be going towards food and other necessities. You don't need a 60" flatscreen to mitigate the social isolation effects of poverty. [/QUOTE]
That's my position too. They have also issued numbers that show that some of the lowest income people spend more on apparel than other groups. Of course it's highly socially biased, but effectively they were saying based on income, poor people are buying more jewelry, more expensive clothing, and more expensive footwear than middle class households for example.
[/QUOTE]That's my position too. They have also issued numbers that show that some of the lowest income people spend more on apparel than other groups. Of course it's highly socially biased, but effectively they were saying based on income, poor people are buying more jewelry, more expensive clothing, and more expensive footwear than middle class households for example.
cancerman1120
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[quote name='Sarang01']I brought the argument of Penicillin specifically because I believe there ARE doctors that dismiss cures in Nature off hand, thinking every cure will come out of pill form in a Pharmaceutical lab that has no connection to Nature or a fleeting one at that. Some even go so far as to show a level of contempt with Nature.
The reason I, again, bring up eating well is I broach the question: Will the doctor prescribe a pill instead of suggesting a better diet that might alleviate some of the symptoms or eliminate them entirely? We know Rickets is a Vitamin D based deficiency for example.
Part of your feeling that a Natural/Herbal cure is laughable I would argue was due in part to the fact that the treatments during the Middle Ages didn't work. It's not a fair argument to make that all of them didn't work when you consider the fact disease was RAMPANT during this time for the fact that common sanitary practices we take now were not applied. In the process preventable infections were all the time ravaging the human immune system. Sadly, even in the early 20th Century in parts of America we could argue those practices were not observed which I suspect is likely why the early Flu Epidemic was so bad.
In terms of Ayurvedic medicine it broaches the question how much of that is just read directly from the Rig Veda or some other Vedic text. I would have to look into the background to see how much of it is truly legitimate.[/QUOTE]
I do not have contempt with nature. In fact most of my career has been in the area of Natural Products. I started studying chemicals produced by sponges and ascidians (sea squirts) and that lead me to more plant based chemicals. I deal with a lot of medicinal chemists that tweak these compounds trying to produce something new that is more efficacious with less toxicity. Although the direction or cancer therapy is changing (more anti-body based therapies) the majority of chemotherapeutic agents are either direct natural products or a derivative of them.
Where I part ways with the "natural" and "holistic" medicine people is that I rely on experimentation, placebo control studies, and direct observation that is repeatable and reliable statistically to do my job. The natural medicine group relies on conjecture, testimonials and low-science IQ to peddle their cures. I am not saying there is not a benefit to living healthy, eating right and exercising but that is not medicine.
The reason I, again, bring up eating well is I broach the question: Will the doctor prescribe a pill instead of suggesting a better diet that might alleviate some of the symptoms or eliminate them entirely? We know Rickets is a Vitamin D based deficiency for example.
Part of your feeling that a Natural/Herbal cure is laughable I would argue was due in part to the fact that the treatments during the Middle Ages didn't work. It's not a fair argument to make that all of them didn't work when you consider the fact disease was RAMPANT during this time for the fact that common sanitary practices we take now were not applied. In the process preventable infections were all the time ravaging the human immune system. Sadly, even in the early 20th Century in parts of America we could argue those practices were not observed which I suspect is likely why the early Flu Epidemic was so bad.
In terms of Ayurvedic medicine it broaches the question how much of that is just read directly from the Rig Veda or some other Vedic text. I would have to look into the background to see how much of it is truly legitimate.[/QUOTE]
I do not have contempt with nature. In fact most of my career has been in the area of Natural Products. I started studying chemicals produced by sponges and ascidians (sea squirts) and that lead me to more plant based chemicals. I deal with a lot of medicinal chemists that tweak these compounds trying to produce something new that is more efficacious with less toxicity. Although the direction or cancer therapy is changing (more anti-body based therapies) the majority of chemotherapeutic agents are either direct natural products or a derivative of them.
Where I part ways with the "natural" and "holistic" medicine people is that I rely on experimentation, placebo control studies, and direct observation that is repeatable and reliable statistically to do my job. The natural medicine group relies on conjecture, testimonials and low-science IQ to peddle their cures. I am not saying there is not a benefit to living healthy, eating right and exercising but that is not medicine.
Paco
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[quote name='Javery']Really? I couldn't disagree more. Sorry welfare people, buy a 20" CRT and deal with it. That dollar a day could be going towards food and other necessities. You don't need a 60" flatscreen to mitigate the social isolation effects of poverty. [/QUOTE]
Sorry but I gotta disagree with you. I rather have them watching BET, MTV, and the Liberal media then causing an Uncle Ruckus on the streets rioting and looting. Let them have their TV as long as it keeps them from going outside and mugging me.
[/QUOTE]Sorry but I gotta disagree with you. I rather have them watching BET, MTV, and the Liberal media then causing an Uncle Ruckus on the streets rioting and looting. Let them have their TV as long as it keeps them from going outside and mugging me.
[quote name='cancerman1120']
Where I part ways with the "natural" and "holistic" medicine people is that I rely on experimentation, placebo control studies, and direct observation that is repeatable and reliable statistically to do my job. The natural medicine group relies on conjecture, testimonials and low-science IQ to peddle their cures. I am not saying there is not a benefit to living healthy, eating right and exercising but that is not medicine.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, it doesn't have to be that way. The FDA or other agency needs to come in and regulate supplements just like they do medicine so that we have the same quality of experimental studies of vitamins and supplements that we do for medical drugs before they can go on the market.
That said, I'm a believer in both to some extent. I take a good bit of vitamins (multi, B and C, Glucosamine/Condroiton, probiotics, fiber) and seem to get sick less since I started that, notice some improvement in knee pain from the Glucosamin, and the probiotics and fiber pills seem to help with my irritable bowel and reflux problems some.
But I also have no qualms going to the doctor when I get a sinus infection or chest cold and getting some anti-biotics and inhalers/steroids (if I'm wheezing) as not much over the counter stuff seems to help when I get really sick. If it's just a simple cold I just pound the fluids, up the vitamin B and C and try to get a lot of rest.
Where I part ways with the "natural" and "holistic" medicine people is that I rely on experimentation, placebo control studies, and direct observation that is repeatable and reliable statistically to do my job. The natural medicine group relies on conjecture, testimonials and low-science IQ to peddle their cures. I am not saying there is not a benefit to living healthy, eating right and exercising but that is not medicine.[/QUOTE]
To be fair, it doesn't have to be that way. The FDA or other agency needs to come in and regulate supplements just like they do medicine so that we have the same quality of experimental studies of vitamins and supplements that we do for medical drugs before they can go on the market.
That said, I'm a believer in both to some extent. I take a good bit of vitamins (multi, B and C, Glucosamine/Condroiton, probiotics, fiber) and seem to get sick less since I started that, notice some improvement in knee pain from the Glucosamin, and the probiotics and fiber pills seem to help with my irritable bowel and reflux problems some.
But I also have no qualms going to the doctor when I get a sinus infection or chest cold and getting some anti-biotics and inhalers/steroids (if I'm wheezing) as not much over the counter stuff seems to help when I get really sick. If it's just a simple cold I just pound the fluids, up the vitamin B and C and try to get a lot of rest.
bread's done