RPG Thread XVII - Talk of RPGs past.

[quote name='ActionKazimer']Playing Persona 3 for the first time. Just got
Koromaru.
Pissed now that he's not in Arena. Would have made finding a Kanji alt so much easier. Naoto works though.[/QUOTE]

Dude. Yes, man. It would have cool. If only they would make some DLC for the game. Persona 3 is such a great game. :)
 
Rumour has it that the Kickstarter for Numenera: Torment is nigh as fuck.

These next few years are gonna be an odd blend of anticipation and fear.
 
23 some hours into Persona 2. Still only half way (based on the FAQ) done. This game is going to take forever. I'll shoot for the end of March to be done.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']23 some hours into Persona 2. Still only half way (based on the FAQ) done. This game is going to take forever. I'll shoot for the end of March to be done.[/QUOTE]

That's certainly much better than Persona 3, which took me 130 hours to finish.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']180 for me[/QUOTE]
Just shy of 140 for me (main game) plus 40+ for The Answer.

Planning on playing Persona 4 later this year, but not looking forward to the time investment...
 
[quote name='TheLongshot']That's certainly much better than Persona 3, which took me 130 hours to finish.[/QUOTE]

That's just a rough estimate. If I do some grinding it might put me in the 60 hour range.

I think the only RPG I spent over 100 hours on was Final Fantasy X. (Monster capturing sidequest)
 
[quote name='kainzero']in terms of actual time and not in game hours, i think persona 3 took me 1 or 2 years to finish.[/QUOTE]

SMT Nocturne took me 3 years to finish (with the true demon ending), but I refused to restart and got stuck a couple times which lead to extended breaks, haha.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']not bashing ME just saying to relax a bit. last thing we need is kids in 2107 being told that Bioware was the Shakespeare of gaming. you guys ever think about that shit? like, how history is going to document all this? like is Halo going to take a seat next to Super Mario? that's fucked up.[/QUOTE]


This is the kind of shit that makes it hard for me to sleep at night :D

I feel like you and I could have deep convos that will blow minds. The only problem is that we would always "forget" to record our sessions.
 
[quote name='kainzero']in terms of actual time and not in game hours, i think persona 3 took me 1 or 2 years to finish.[/QUOTE]

Actual time for me was about 6 years, but I spent a lot of time not playing it, as happens with a lot of RPGs.
 
In response the the SMB/Halo comments, the art of video games is fairly young next to literature, might want to hold off on setting up a canon, however here comes a text wall...

I'm not whiteknighting for Halo or ME, because I couldn't give a shit about either, but the notion that SMB is somehow video gaming's "Shakespeare" might be stretching it a bit. IMO the Grand Adventures of the Italian Plumbers are more of an achievement of marketing than entertainment/storytelling (in a narrative or interactive sense).

I think in identifying a kind of literary canon for gaming, you have to be very discerning. It'd be a real pain in the ass as a thought exercise.

The rise of game criticism gets in the way -- ME2 is an example of that, how the criticism at times has served corporate interests far more than critical inquiry. The corporate servitude is to an extent you don't see in literary circles. There are schools of thought that bias reviews of novels, but in games (and movies/TV) it's so much worse, it's so clearly an extension of the corporate marketing dollar. Perhaps that's why some hesitate to put the Art tag on games...in terms of film, for those people games are generally more blockbuster than art house.

To bring it to the thread topic, RPGs are sometimes the kinds of games people point to as the representative "artsy" examples. I think there's a lot of really good stories told in RPGs that would have been hard to tell in novels or film. I sometimes wonder if my involvement, as a player, actually made the narrative of the story more moving to me, or if that's just something I tell myself because I'm justifying getting my mage to lvl 99 so I could see the cool flame spell. I don't know.

One thing I like about the "Games as Art" question is how messy these questions are...I like that in games my role in "authoring" the narrative is much more explicit than it is in film/literature/art. That's something people in those media forget, even though they'll parrot comments about Heisenberg and whatnot. In games it's unavoidable, especially in a game that isn't particularly linear: the player can and will (and *should*, in the good games) warp the story. That's interesting, and it can be really rewarding.
 
i don't like the concept of shakespeare in videogames because story often takes a backseat to the actual game at hand

games being... objective based with obstacles and decision making required, etc.

in that case it would be more like a puzzle or a sport

and you wouldn't say that michael jordan is the shakespeare of basketball
 
I don't get comparing stuff to Shakespeare because, frankly, outside of his sonnets, it was pretty bad. Also, playing through Mass Effect 1 on the PC for the first time, probably about 10th time overall. Such a great atmosphere and tension-driven narrative. Noveria is awesome, the mustic, everything on that planet is awesome. Except the Mako, fuck that thing.

Also, I will destroy you, Enemy is everywhere and hold the line.
 
What if by "Shakespeare" Panzer actually meant the quality of simplicity, or the ability to express to the user a pure experience?

Did you need a tutorial to play Mario? How did you know that the goomba's were enemies? When was the first time you learned that the pipe dwelling plants were called "Piranha Plants"? Or what about the "tricks" that were used to deceive you, specifically that the bushes and clouds in the first Mario game were the same but just colored differently?

In regards to Shakespeare, no person have I ever read or heard knew how to throw out the puts downs, the show stoppers, the burns, the slams, THE TRUTH like the man Shakespeare.

[quote name='Shakespeare']Frailty, thy name is woman![/QUOTE]


Or maybe I read into Panzer's post a little too much.


BTW, new ME3 dlc is hilariously funny.

"Hey Shep! Earth is being attacked, but you need some R&D. Go take your team to this pimping pad and have fun! Don't worry about those giant things trying to destroy the galaxy."

"Ladies and gentlemen! We are your VILLAINS for this DLC! WE are faceless and nameless! The gods of the ex machina have placed us here so that you are given a reason to have your old friends reunite(will totally save you in some instance or another) one last time!"

Purely conjecture, but I don't think I am too far off.
 
Pure fan service, because EA knows they can sell this. Surprised that they just didn't release a stand alone ME game in an alternate universe like Yakuza: Dead Souls.
 
[quote name='j-cart']BTW, new ME3 dlc is hilariously funny.

"Hey Shep! Earth is being attacked, but you need some R&D. Go take your team to this pimping pad and have fun! Don't worry about those giant things trying to destroy the galaxy."[/QUOTE]

You must think Final Fantasy XIII is the best RPG ever made, because it's the only one that prohibits you from doing any sidequests until after the main villain is dealt with. :lol: ;)
 
[quote name='j-cart']What if by "Shakespeare" Panzer actually meant the quality of simplicity, or the ability to express to the user a pure experience?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'm surprised this has to be stated. A game is a game, you don't pick out the written dialogue and start judging it as a "story." That's a real boring way to look at the medium.

Shit is interconnected, man. J-cart gets it.

and you wouldn't say that michael jordan is the shakespeare of basketball
Click to expand...

i would understand why if you did, though. let's not think too hard about this stuff.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']You must think Final Fantasy XIII is the best RPG ever made, because it's the only one that prohibits you from doing any sidequests until after the main villain is dealt with. :lol: ;)[/QUOTE]


Or it tells me that a giant fucking turtle is stronger than Orphan and that I "can't" level up until I beat this lesser villain.


[quote name='panzerfaust']Yeah, I'm surprised this has to be stated. A game is a game, you don't pick out the written dialogue and start judging it as a "story." That's a real boring way to look at the medium.

Shit is interconnected, man. J-cart gets it.[/QUOTE]


Let me inside your head (look as deep as you need to on that one) ;)
 
[quote name='Indignate']There were/are much better writers out there than Shakespeare.

I don't know any, but let me ask Crotch.[/QUOTE]
What, you mean, like... Chris Avellone and John Gonzalez?
[quote name='kainzero']and you wouldn't say that michael jordan is the shakespeare of basketball[/QUOTE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvjDr8KKtsE
[quote name='Ryuukishi']You must think Final Fantasy XIII is the best RPG ever made, because it's the only one that prohibits you from doing any sidequests until after the main villain is dealt with. :lol: ;)[/QUOTE]
While I'm normally Chief Complainer of the Sidequest Diversions fuck Up the Narrative Brigade, there are ways to implement them gracefully without gating content heavily. Dragon Age 2 and Baldur's Gate 2 both put "raise a shitload of money" as a very early plot objective to justify your fucking around on sidequests and shit. It kinda-sorta didn't work in either of them (BG2 set the amount so low that you could carry on with the main plot after doing only a tiny fraction of them and DA2 didn't have a main plot to really carry on with), but the concept itself is sound.

The Fallout series did something a lot more interesting, though. The PC in those games had a Rousseau-esque innocence to them, fresh out of their vault or isolated village. Abandoning the search for your missing neighbours in favour of collecting debts in New Reno or sabotaging whisky stills or whatever actually works when the corrupting force of the outside world is a core theme of the game. Of course, New Vegas totally abandoned that setup, but I can't really blame Obsidian for that; don't need four games with the exact same philosophical underpinning.
 
I always find it funny when people talk and compare things to Shakespeare like it is some high art sort of thing. Shakespeare was the popular entertainment of his time, which has managed to stand up to the test of time. That's really what the benchmark should be: games that stand up to the test of time, of which SMB certainly applies.

I think the problem comes in when we compare with other mediums and we only compare on a "story" level, when that is just one aspect of gaming (and perhaps the weakest part of gaming) while people ignore the gameplay.
 
It's a false comparison. It's like painting about music.

Shakespeare is just words words on a page. A game has "words" (story) but is also a visual expression, puzzles, controls, feedback, etc, etc.
 
[quote name='eldergamer']It's a false comparison. It's like painting about music.

Shakespeare is just words words on a page. A game has "words" (story) but is also a visual expression, puzzles, controls, feedback, etc, etc.[/QUOTE]

Funny thing is, Shakespeare isn't just words on a page either, tho typically that's how many experience his work.
 
Yeah, if you're just reading Shakespeare (unless it's one of his poems, arguably), that's really not the ideal way to experience his work.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Um. Y'know Shakespeare... wrote a bunch of plays, right? Things that, traditionally, aren't just words on a page?[/QUOTE]

It's not a play until it's performed. Until then, just words on a page.
The play is a wholy different experience than reading the words. Go see a poorly acted version and see what you take away from it.

Gaming analogy:
Playing a game with horrible lag. (ie, something is keeping you from experiencing the pure intent of the work)
 
[quote name='eldergamer']The play is a wholy different experience than reading the words.[/QUOTE]
Well, yes. That's kind of the point. You aren't supposed to just read the words. The words exist to give direction, not to be read for the sake of reading them.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Well, yes. That's kind of the point. You aren't supposed to just read the words. The words exist to give direction, not to be read for the sake of reading them.[/QUOTE]

Yet how do most people experience Shakespeare? Do they go attend a play or read it for the sake of reading it. (Classroom assignment)
 
You're supposed to do both. My school took us to plays, and we studied the language so we knew what the hell was going on. But he is a playwright, and that's what he's famous for. You'll at least watch a film or something, because without stage direction, costume design, etc... you are largely missing the point of the text.
 
Totally irrelevant. We read them because it is more convenient to read them, but they were not made to be read.

EDIT: Literature written in the form of plays that are meant to be read, not performed, do exist. Relatively uncommon, yes, but they exist.

Torment Kickstarter starts tomorrow.
 
Speaking of drama, I'm still playing Tales of the Abyss, and drama bombs have been steadily going off everywhere! For instance, I just learned that
Sync is a clone replica of Ion!
I was half-expecting him to be a clone replica of Guy up until that point, given an earlier scene where Sync's mask came off, even though that wouldn't have made much sense...

DUN DUN DUN

And then, it turns out that
Ion is ALSO a clone replica of Ion!

OMG WTF BBQ

I expected drama bombs in this game because, c'mon, it's fuckin' Tales, but it seems like Abyss is top-loaded with them.

Also, I gave up on the drawing minigame afterward that needed Mieu after a few tries, and just took the easy way out. Wonder if I should reload and attempt it again :razz:
 
[quote name='blueshinra']Speaking of drama, I'm still playing Tales of the Abyss, and drama bombs have been steadily going off everywhere! For instance, I just learned that
Sync is a clone replica of Ion!
I was half-expecting him to be a clone replica of Guy up until that point, given an earlier scene where Sync's mask came off, even though that wouldn't have made much sense...

DUN DUN DUN

And then, it turns out that
Ion is ALSO a clone replica of Ion!

OMG WTF BBQ

I expected drama bombs in this game because, c'mon, it's fuckin' Tales, but it seems like Abyss is top-loaded with them.

Also, I gave up on the drawing minigame afterward that needed Mieu after a few tries, and just took the easy way out. Wonder if I should reload and attempt it again :razz:[/QUOTE]

Haha, more to come.

I think you get a title for Tear if you beat that mini-game.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top