Sony strikes HUGE blow against online piracy.

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o2012o

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http://psp.ign.com/articles/106/1069716p1.html

I am ALL for this policy, and it seems to put consoles on the same playing field as PC games (in regards to CD keys).

Used games have never been truly possible on PC because of unique serials, and, while I enjoy used games as much as the next person, I have no problem with adopting a license model. The fact that Sony is allowing players to buy a serial number for $20 is a pretty nice olive branch, considering there is no such option in PC gaming.
 
An IGN forum poster commented:

Whats with the bs of $20 entitlement vouchers. Why not just give game stores entitlement vochers for FREE to give with the used copies they sell.

I think that is a good idea as well. It would just have to be heavily policed.
 
[quote name='whoknows']Entitlement vouchers ruin it. At least if you plan on ever buying it used or trading for it.[/QUOTE]

They absolutely impact the used market, but this is sorta what it's come to for PSP.

Perhaps if this system expands to PS3, they will give each copy a few uses per serial number.
 
I could see if the voucher was $1 just for verification purposes but they are effectively making the game, at a bare minimum, $20 forever. So even if the game tanks and is $10 used at GS 6 months from now it will still be $30 used. This is also gonna piss off a LOT of people who don't know this info when buying used.
 
Your header is a little over the top.
"Sony's first test at discouraging pirates from downloading PSP software." in the article and so far its only one game. not so HUGE in my opinion.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']I could see if the voucher was $1 just for verification purposes but they are effectively making the game, at a bare minimum, $20 forever. So even if the game tanks and is $10 used at GS 6 months from now it will still be $30 used. This is also gonna piss off a LOT of people who don't know this info when buying used.[/QUOTE]

If the voucher was only a dollar, than the game would be just as easy to pirate as PSP games already are. Something needed to be done, and I can't think of anything other than licenses.
 
[quote name='Arakias']Your header is a little over the top.
"Sony's first test at discouraging pirates from downloading PSP software." in the article and so far its only one game. not so HUGE in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Nah. I think my header is pretty much fine. Setting a precedent is huge... because it's a precedent.
 
That is not a "HUGE blow against online piracy." Your headline sucks. This is stupid and uninteresting. Piracy will go on unaffected.
 
Well, sucks for used buyers. Seeing how many games are pirated on PSP though. I think Sony just about had enough.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']That is not a "HUGE blow against online piracy." Your headline sucks. This is stupid and uninteresting. Piracy will go on unaffected.[/QUOTE]
This.

Piracy will go on pretty much unaffected.

Someone will come up with a key-gen somewhere down the line, just like with Computer games.
 
Title should read: "Sony strikes HUGE blow against used game sales."

Sony has been very proactive about blocking people with custom firmware from accessing PSN at all for about the last year so this voucher scheme has pretty much no effect on the average PSP pirate.

Also, the PSP hardware has been fairly pirate proof for the last year and a half. What software are all these people with legitimate hardware buying? I was under the impression that PSP software sales are still a wasteland but I really don't follow PSP sales so I might be wrong.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']This.

Piracy will go on pretty much unaffected.

Someone will come up with a key-gen somewhere down the line, just like with Computer games.[/QUOTE]

Oh really? That easy? So where is the keygen for PSN cards?
 
[quote name='Mojimbo']Title should read: "Sony strikes HUGE blow against used game sales."

Sony has been very proactive about blocking people with custom firmware from accessing PSN at all for about the last year so this voucher scheme has pretty much no effect on the average PSP pirate.

Also, the PSP hardware has been fairly pirate proof for the last year and a half. What software are all these people with legitimate hardware buying? I was under the impression that PSP software sales are still a wasteland but I really don't follow PSP sales so I might be wrong.[/QUOTE]

Since you haven't followed psp for a while, let me notify you that piracy has not been stifled at all over the last year and a half. Custom firmware is alive and well.

I suppose I used the word "huge" because it is a pretty desisive blow against anyone who wants to play games online. As for the average psp pirate, yeah, it won't have a huge effect.

Let's pretend that geohot's ps3 exploit bares fruit. Now Sony can protect ps3's multiplayer games from piracy. To me, once again, that is huge.

I wouldn't put something like this past Microsoft btw. An example has been set (albeit small.)
 
[quote name='o2012o']Oh really? That easy? So where is the keygen for PSN cards?[/QUOTE]
I've never heard of a keygen for PSN cards, actually. I figure those are like MSP cards and they have to be linked to an actual purchase. I'm not going to pretend to know how to actually do it, but I know that it's pretty easy for people to make keygens for PC games with unique registration codes, so I figure they'll make a keygen for this game and any other games like it.

This is not a huge blow against piracy.
 
[quote name='CaptainJoel']I've never heard of a keygen for PSN cards, actually. I figure those are like MSP cards and they have to be linked to an actual purchase. I'm not going to pretend to know how to actually do it, but I know that it's pretty easy for people to make keygens for PC games with unique registration codes, so I figure they'll make a keygen for this game and any other games like it.

This is not a huge blow against piracy.[/QUOTE]

Keygens aren't as magical as you think. That's all I'll say.
 
[quote name='o2012o']Keygens aren't as magical as you think. That's all I'll say.[/QUOTE]
The ones people I know use seem to work about 90% of the time, so I figure that they'll be able to crack this game.
 
The way I see this is that pirates will always get around things like this and as such all that this will really hurt is the used PSP game market. Which is as bad as piracy for sony, but will just hurt those of us who actually want to buy PSP games.
 
What I'd like to see is the code to be tied to each UMD so you could buy used and just pay the price for the game with the code. Why can't they do that? This really pisses me off and makes me enraged even more against pirates. I'm not happy with Sony but I can see this is what it has come to from all those asshats with custom firmware PSP's not paying for their software.
 
[quote name='J7.']What I'd like to see is the code to be tied to each UMD so you could buy used and just pay the price for the game with the code. Why can't they do that? This really pisses me off and makes me enraged even more against pirates. I'm not happy with Sony but I can see this is what it has come to from all those asshats with custom firmware PSP's not paying for their software.[/QUOTE]

That seems like a sound idea. That way, if someone pirates a copy that has a specific serial, only one person can be using it at a time.
 
[quote name='clockwork-zombie']The way I see this is that pirates will always get around things like this and as such all that this will really hurt is the used PSP game market. Which is as bad as piracy for sony, but will just hurt those of us who actually want to buy PSP games.[/QUOTE]
The used game market doesn't help Sony out at all with the kind of software sales they get, so they don't really have any reason to worry about that. Like what EA's been doing recently, it's more of a way to persuade people to buy new copies than to just punish the used market. I'm sure they don't expect to actually sell many $20 vouchers because of this. Besides, one title doesn't make much of a dent, so this doesn't really mean much until most of the games that are coming out are using the same system.

Also, the online community isn't exactly an active one, so many games either lack people to play with or have glitchers that ruin whatever chance there is to have fun. I wonder what the local wi-fi options are for SOCOM FTB3, as the AdhocParty app on the PS3 could be the way to circumvent that restriction depending on what the game offers.

I can't even begin to guess what these people that buy the systems do with them, whether it's pirating, not using the system, buying used games they've missed, rarely buying a new game, or being an actively purchasing games like the four other major consoles right now. The active userbase has to be a small percentage of the ~10 million total units that have sold since it launched in the US, so price drops probably have to happen on the systems (it'll be three years since the last drop in April) and games (no more $40 games) along with a new marketing push to have a chance at reviving the public's interest in the system.
 
[quote name='o2012o']Keygens aren't as magical as you think. That's all I'll say.[/QUOTE]

That's true Keygens aren't as easy as most people think. But once you figure out Algorithm, people will abuse the hell out of it. Generally hackers will look at multiple codes to find a pattern. Next they have to figure out an appropriate Mathematic equation to generate codes. If several of tested codes work, they will start making a program to generate codes.



[quote name='o2012o']That seems like a sound idea. That way, if someone pirates a copy that has a specific serial, only one person can be using it at a time.[/QUOTE]

It still doesn't prevent piracy, it just makes it harder. If it's any like PC programs, once you go online it checks serial code. This doesn't bold well for games that don't relay heavily on online content, which is large sum of games. People just won't go online. That's one of reasons why Sony invented Psp Go, so people can purchase games through internet and monitor fraudulent activities. Too bad their marketing and overpriced items caused downfall of Psp Go.


Of course, there are several ways to off set this by removing some off content of game and offer it as DLC or have exclusive DLC codes for purchasing new games
 
[quote name='fatbeer']That's true Keygens aren't as easy as most people think. But once you figure out Algorithm, people will abuse the hell out of it. Generally hackers will look at multiple codes to find a pattern. Next they have to figure out an appropriate Mathematic equation to generate codes. If several of tested codes work, they will start making a program to generate codes.





It still doesn't prevent piracy, it just makes it harder. If it's any like PC programs, once you go online it checks serial code. This doesn't bold well for games that don't relay heavily on online content, which is large sum of games. People just won't go online. That's one of reasons why Sony invented Psp Go, so people can purchase games through internet and monitor fraudulent activities. Too bad their marketing and overpriced items caused downfall of Psp Go.


Of course, there are several ways to off set this by removing some off content of game and offer it as DLC or have exclusive DLC codes for purchasing new games[/QUOTE]

Alright. Allow me to clarify my whole point. Online multiplayer is a huge factor nowadays. Perhaps this won't save the PSP, but I am reading the part of the article where it says that Sony may implement this across the board. They are clearly doing this just in case someone actually gets custom firmware running on a PS3.

Furthermore, Microsoft has had a problem on their hands for years with people being able to not only play downloaded 360 games but also playing them online. What Sony has done with this experiment can be used just as easily by Microsoft to combat a good portion of piracy on their console. There are a million and a half keygens that work for single player games, but getting those games to work in online multiplayer is a whole different story.

So yeah, it doesn't prevent piracy in terms of single player, but it absolutely punches people who would want to play their ill gotten gains against other people online right in the gut. I do regret what I titled the thread, but it's got a ring to it now and it stays.
 
[quote name='o2012o']Alright. Allow me to clarify my whole point. Online multiplayer is a huge factor nowadays. Perhaps this won't save the PSP, but I am reading the part of the article where it says that Sony may implement this across the board. They are clearly doing this just in case someone actually gets custom firmware running on a PS3.

Furthermore, Microsoft has had a problem on their hands for years with people being able to not only play downloaded 360 games but also playing them online. What Sony has done with this experiment can be used just as easily by Microsoft to combat a good portion of piracy on their console. There are a million and a half keygens that work for single player games, but getting those games to work in online multiplayer is a whole different story.

So yeah, it doesn't prevent piracy in terms of single player, but it absolutely punches people who would want to play their ill gotten gains against other people online right in the gut. I do regret what I titled the thread, but it's got a ring to it now and it stays.[/QUOTE]

Thing is, it'll only prevent pirated games from playing on legit servers. If the person is smart/capable enough to get custom firmware and pirated games on their system, they're smart/capable enough to follow directions on how to connect to a non-legit server. Of course, these servers may not be able to do everything, depending on the amount of work the server actually does.

For example, if someone wants to play Phantasy Star Online online on their Dreamcast (even though servers were closed over 6 years ago), they can (if they spend the ten seconds to google it).

So, as others have said, I see it affecting used game sales far more than it'll affect pirating.
 
[quote name='o2012o']If the voucher was only a dollar, than the game would be just as easy to pirate as PSP games already are. Something needed to be done, and I can't think of anything other than licenses.[/QUOTE]

What does the price of an online verification voucher have to do with how easy the game is to pirate?
 
I see this as a big ass clusterfuck more than anything else. It's a perfect example of why I won't be getting a PSP (not that I was in the first place) and it's why I don't back digital delivery. As for PC gaming I won't even bother at all because it's hard enough to make sure the damn pc can play the game let alone piracy issues.

I really hate to be backing M$ but at least with their xbl there's no question about piracy and technical issues. You also don't spend countless hrs downloading crap or filling out stuff.
 
[quote name='Malik112099']What does the price of an online verification voucher have to do with how easy the game is to pirate?[/QUOTE]

I think the point he's trying to make is if the voucher cost was $5 or less it wouldn't deter pirates enough from downloading the game and paying the money to play online. With the cost being $20 though, pirates will just play the single-player campaign if they even bother to download a pirated version and sometime down the road a bunch of used copies of the game will be returned to Gamestop and/or a lot of arguments will be coming from clueless users because little Johnny can't play the game online without paying $20.
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']I think the point he's trying to make is if the voucher cost was $5 or less it wouldn't deter pirates enough from downloading the game and paying the money to play online. With the cost being $20 though, pirates will just play the single-player campaign if they even bother to download a pirated version and sometime down the road a bunch of used copies of the game will be returned to Gamestop and/or a lot of arguments will be coming from clueless users because little Johnny can't play the game online without paying $20.[/QUOTE]


That still doesn't make sense. The point of the voucher is to deter pirates. $20 is ridiculous for regular consumers. $1-$5 would be easier to swallow AND the pirates might just say "fuck it, its only $2 to play online" and pay for it.
 
Look, Sony and Nintendo need to do something with their handheld systems. Piracy is killing their bottom line because it's simply too easy to pirate. It's sort of like the music industry several years back with Napster. It was so easy that almost everyone used it. Now you can use torrents and other things, but it's hard enough that a lot of people would just rather pay the $0.99 to get the song. Remember how easy it was to pirate on the Dreamcast? Far too easy to prevent most people. Now, you can still pirate on the Xbox 360, but it's hard enough that most people don't bother. It's saved sales on the PS3 this generation.

In other words, yes people will always pirate. These companies are concerned with making that so difficult that the majority will not. They know they'll always lost a certain percentage of sales to a small group.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']Thing is, it'll only prevent pirated games from playing on legit servers. If the person is smart/capable enough to get custom firmware and pirated games on their system, they're smart/capable enough to follow directions on how to connect to a non-legit server. Of course, these servers may not be able to do everything, depending on the amount of work the server actually does.

For example, if someone wants to play Phantasy Star Online online on their Dreamcast (even though servers were closed over 6 years ago), they can (if they spend the ten seconds to google it).

So, as others have said, I see it affecting used game sales far more than it'll affect pirating.[/QUOTE]


This may slow down piracy, until the pirates figure everything out, then it will be business as usual. PC DRM is a lot more sophisticated than this and it hasn't been stopped. Hell, people have figured out how to pirate Steam games and play them online.

DRM's biggest reason for existence today is to deter used game sales. It has none next to nothing to stop piracy.
 
[quote name='elwood731']Look, Sony and Nintendo need to do something with their handheld systems. Piracy is killing their bottom line because it's simply too easy to pirate. [/QUOTE]

Nintendo's bottom line? LOL! If the PSP is having trouble, it's because of Sony's poor planning and marketing.

It's sort of like the music industry several years back with Napster. It was so easy that almost everyone used it. Now you can use torrents and other things, but it's hard enough that a lot of people would just rather pay the $0.99 to get the song.
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It's still rather easy to obtain music for free. It's just that the music industry got off their collective asses and discovered that people will buy music if sold digitally.

Remember how easy it was to pirate on the Dreamcast? Far too easy to prevent most people.
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Piracy was bad for the Dreamcast. But it was Sega's stupid past decisions that killed the Dreamcast and nearly themselves in the process.

Now, you can still pirate on the Xbox 360, but it's hard enough that most people don't bother. It's saved sales on the PS3 this generation.
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It doesn't take much knowledge to pirate on the Xbox 360 or the Wii. I always see ads on my local craigslist with people offering to mod consoles. It has become a cottage industry. So you can always spend a few bucks and have it done for you. And yet game sales for both the Xbox 360 and the Wii are pretty good.

In other words, yes people will always pirate. These companies are concerned with making that so difficult that the majority will not. They know they'll always lost a certain percentage of sales to a small group.
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The console industry is just taking a page from the pc gaming industry. Trying to kill used sales. But I feel that the gaming industry is killing themselves. The more they use DRM the more they complain about piracy. Lots of gamers have moved on to consoles because they can get deals on used games, keeping their costs down. Yet, until the recession, console game sales were growing at a huge rate. The industry is too blinded by and jealous of the success of GameStop to see that used game sales are the gateway for many users.
 
[quote name='mogamer']Nintendo's bottom line? LOL! If the PSP is having trouble, it's because of Sony's poor planning and marketing.[/quote]
Yes, Nintendo's bottom line in software sales. Sure, they're doing wonderful when it comes to hardware sales, but not so great in software. And what kind of non-sequitur is it about Sony's marketing? The PSP has sold millions worldwide, is the most successful handheld not made by Nintendo, and is still not exactly making money. Almost anyone will tell you this is directly tied to low software sales for a system with lots of greats games.

It's still rather easy to obtain music for free. It's just that the music industry got off their collective asses and discovered that people will buy music if sold digitally.
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So people only stole music then because they couldn't download it legally? Then why hasn't all piracy stopped? There's no logic in this.

Piracy was bad for the Dreamcast. But it was Sega's stupid past decisions that killed the Dreamcast and nearly themselves in the process.
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Again, not at all related to what is being talked about. No one said piracy killed the Dreamcast, only that it was incredibly easy to pirate for. Simply burn a CD with no hacks or mods.

It doesn't take much knowledge to pirate on the Xbox 360 or the Wii. I always see ads on my local craigslist with people offering to mod consoles. It has become a cottage industry. So you can always spend a few bucks and have it done for you. And yet game sales for both the Xbox 360 and the Wii are pretty good.
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Game sales for the Wii are not particularly good. That's why many third-parties are abandoning it. This is not all due to piracy by any stretch, but pirating on the Wii is certainly easier than any other system out there (except maybe PSP).

As for modding an Xbox, it is still harder to do than most people know how or want to bother with. That's the point. You've always been able to buy modded systems, but most people don't go that route (looking outside the hardcore, geek crowd).

The console industry is just taking a page from the pc gaming industry. Trying to kill used sales. But I feel that the gaming industry is killing themselves. The more they use DRM the more they complain about piracy. Lots of gamers have moved on to consoles because they can get deals on used games, keeping their costs down. Yet, until the recession, console game sales were growing at a huge rate. The industry is too blinded by and jealous of the success of GameStop to see that used game sales are the gateway for many users.
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And many gamers are too blinded to see that companies are not waging a holy crusade on used games. In the PC realm used sales have never been as big as they were on consoles, so I'm not exactly sure where this sentiment comes from all of a sudden. If anything, PC users have many more options for purchasing games today than ever before, and "evil DRM" like Steam provides them easy access to that collection from anywhere they want. That seemed unthinkable less than a decade ago.

As for the consoles, I have yet to see any company try to stop used game sales. What most people are crying about is stuff like EA packaging extra content with new versions of games. I can't even begin to fathom the issue with this. As far back as the Super NES days I can easily remember getting bonuses if you bought the game new (maps, etc.), and that even extends to the PC.

The issue with Sony and the PSP here is different, I agree. I don't even think the price point is right, but I can certainly understand their perspective. I think as some others have stated that around $5 would be more reasonable, but I can even understand those upset by that. Still, Sony has to do something to recoup some of their losses due to piracy.

Kicking your feet and screaming that you're inconvenienced by companies who have been inconvenienced by gamers like you pirating their software is silly and solves nothing. Microsoft knows some people will always pirate their software (Windows, Office), but they make it as much a pain as possible to try to cut down on those numbers. Does it stop it? No, but it very much does curtail it to some level among the non-hardcore users. If gamers want someone to blame for all this, they need to look at themselves as well.
 
[quote name='DarkNessBear']They really should make a mandatory CD key for all games (console) and that are checked online to enable play.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, I wouldn't mind seeing this in the future and hope it certainly adopts.

Look at the 360, it's also rampant with hackers/cheaters/pirates.
 
[quote name='elwood731']The PSP has sold millions worldwide, is the most successful handheld not made by Nintendo, and is still not exactly making money. Almost anyone will tell you this is directly tied to low software sales for a system with lots of greats games.[/QUOTE]

It's only been in the last couple of years that there has been a lot of great games coming out. Inertia has a lot to do with products. If PSP games got a cool reaction from the start, if will affect sales down the road.

So people only stole music then because they couldn't download it legally? Then why hasn't all piracy stopped? There's no logic in this.
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Like you said a certain amount of piracy is a given. But a lot of people stopped because there are now easy and legal means to download music. Look at how successful Apple and Amazon are in selling digital music.


Again, not at all related to what is being talked about. No one said piracy killed the Dreamcast, only that it was incredibly easy to pirate for. Simply burn a CD with no hacks or mods.
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It wasn't that easy. You have to make the disc "bootable" for the copy to work. Obtaining iso's online back when dial-up was king was pretty tedious. And the Dreamcast is always used as the poster child of how piracy can kill a product. You mean that wasn't the reason why you mentioned it?


Game sales for the Wii are not particularly good. That's why many third-parties are abandoning it. This is not all due to piracy by any stretch, but pirating on the Wii is certainly easier than any other system out there (except maybe PSP).
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3RD parties are leaving the Wii because most 3RD party games are shit. Even casual gamers will only put up with so much.

As for modding an Xbox, it is still harder to do than most people know how or want to bother with. That's the point. You've always been able to buy modded systems, but most people don't go that route (looking outside the hardcore, geek crowd).
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You don't have to be a hardcore geek to obtain a modded console. Most people only charge $30 here to mod someones console. And it doesn't take much time to do it.


And many gamers are too blinded to see that companies are not waging a holy crusade on used games. In the PC realm used sales have never been as big as they were on consoles, so I'm not exactly sure where this sentiment comes from all of a sudden. If anything, PC users have many more options for purchasing games today than ever before, and "evil DRM" like Steam provides them easy access to that collection from anywhere they want. That seemed unthinkable less than a decade ago.
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Well I feel differently about that. Back in the early 90's used pc games were easily found. Hell, EB Games was still selling used pc games into the 2000's. But all of the protection schemes made it more risky and major chains dropped it. Now I find plenty of older used pc games at flea markets and yard sales. But I only buy newer used games if I know that I can play it no matter what. I myself, have no problem with companies trying to protect themselves and their product. But as can be seen, pirated material is easy to obtain. PC DRM has only affected used game sales. Why else would a corportion spend millions of dollars on a product that doesn't do what it advertises? Maybe because iDRM is there to do something that these companies don't want to bring up? Remember, many developers have said that used game sales are the same as piracy.


As for the consoles, I have yet to see any company try to stop used game sales. What most people are crying about is stuff like EA packaging extra content with new versions of games. I can't even begin to fathom the issue with this. As far back as the Super NES days I can easily remember getting bonuses if you bought the game new (maps, etc.), and that even extends to the PC.
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I have no problem with that approach. I think it's pretty good myself. Giving people more value for their money is always good.
 
[quote name='mogamer']It's only been in the last couple of years that there has been a lot of great games coming out. Inertia has a lot to do with products. If PSP games got a cool reaction from the start, if will affect sales down the road.[/quote]
Inertia has nothing to do with it. Look at PS3 sales. And the PSP system has been selling, just not the software. To say piracy is nto a big issue for the PSP is just hiding your head in the sand.

Like you said a certain amount of piracy is a given. But a lot of people stopped because there are now easy and legal means to download music. Look at how successful Apple and Amazon are in selling digital music.
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And people would still pirate if it was as easy as Napster made it. People don't buy music simply because iTunes exists, they do so because it's more convenient than the alternative. It got to be more convenient by shutting down Napster and other services. It still can be done, but not easily for the mainstream.

It wasn't that easy. You have to make the disc "bootable" for the copy to work. Obtaining iso's online back when dial-up was king was pretty tedious. And the Dreamcast is always used as the poster child of how piracy can kill a product. You mean that wasn't the reason why you mentioned it?
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Actually, I mentioned it because it's notorious for possibly being the easiest console to pirate for during its heyday. Compare it to, say, the NES and SNES which are easy today, but weren't so much at their sales peak. Please read my actual words instead of inserting these little side arguments that have nothing to do with being said.

And yes, the DC was incredibly easy compared to most consoles.

3RD parties are leaving the Wii because most 3RD party games are shit. Even casual gamers will only put up with so much.
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Again, so what? You said they had good sales, I was pointing out they do not. Not even for good third party titles. As noted, this is not due (entirely) to piracy, but it certainly plays a part for a console that's a snap to pirate for.

You don't have to be a hardcore geek to obtain a modded console. Most people only charge $30 here to mod someones console. And it doesn't take much time to do it.
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You don't have to be, but who isn't doing it? If you asked the average person buying Madden, Call of Duty, etc. they wouldn't begin to know how to do so. They might say they heard you could pay someone, but didn't really know much about it. Again, you're making a mistake people on here do all the time, which is to assume the average person buying video games is like them. If you're on this site, you're outside of the mainstream.

Well I feel differently about that. Back in the early 90's used pc games were easily found. Hell, EB Games was still selling used pc games into the 2000's. But all of the protection schemes made it more risky and major chains dropped it. Now I find plenty of older used pc games at flea markets and yard sales. But I only buy newer used games if I know that I can play it no matter what. I myself, have no problem with companies trying to protect themselves and their product. But as can be seen, pirated material is easy to obtain. PC DRM has only affected used game sales. Why else would a corportion spend millions of dollars on a product that doesn't do what it advertises? Maybe because iDRM is there to do something that these companies don't want to bring up? Remember, many developers have said that used game sales are the same as piracy.
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Used games were never really huge in the PC market until maybe years later. Not like the console market of buy a game at launch and flip it a week later for credit. DRM does stop many from stealing games. Go back 20 years and it was as simple as copying one disk to a blank one (part of the reason the used market died in the first place). Pirating computer games isn't so easy anymore. Sure, it can be done, but as noted DRM has made it more difficult to do. The casual person doesn't fool with it, and the hardcore pirate keeps it up like they would no matter what. Of course, the outcome is the honest hardcore gamer gets punished in the process.

The point being that neither side is innocent in this fight. Gamers are crazy if they believe this is a battle that companies picked with them completely unprovoked. They're also crazy if they believe that these measures haven't been somewhat successful. This whole cry about used games is something that has really just come up in the past couple of years on both sides. Honestly, if anything the stupidity of gamers makes me annoyed because it makes it more expensive and more of a burden to play legitimate games.
 
The reason software wasn't selling on the PSP at the beginning was a lack of quality and price. I had a PSP at launch in 05 and bought a few games. It wasn't until 2006 that some quality games came out (Syphon Filter and SOCOM.) By 07 I had sold my PSP (got a 1/2 case of the new VS System set.) Also the price of games was an issue as all new PSP titles started out at $40 and didn't drop for about a year.

When you have a system that has a lack of software and what software available is too expensive, then you have people trying to find something else to do with it, hence the piracy. Why will I buy a $40 game when I can download every single SNES, Genesis, N64, PS1 game I want and play it on there?

The software drought continued through 07 and 08 as quality titles were few and far between (GoW, R&C, second Syphon Filter, second Fireteam Bravo, FF VII Crisis Core)

It wasn't until 09 that the drought of quality software ended, but everything was $40 at launch, the DS had become a juggernaut with most of its software (minus Nintendo and Square Enix produced games) being $30 or less new, your unit costs more than your biggest competitor who's outselling you 3 to 1 most months, the IPhone/IPod Touch had lots of games for under $10, you confused/pissed off your main market and potential new customers with the PSP Go fiasco, and the pirates overran your platform because you thought 2 good games a year was enough to keep the owners of your system satisfied.

Look at the beginning of the PS3. For the first year the only good game for it was Resistance. But the software started to trickle out in 07 with Heavenly Sword, Ratchet, and Uncharted, then all the third parties started to figure out how to program for it and got the multi-platform games to be equivalent on both platforms (Bayonetta is now the exception vs. the rule,) MGS 4 came out, then they finally figured out people like the whole gamerscore thing so they came up with their own system.

Also the price of the system has been cut in half since it first launched so its now affordable and compares at least favorably or many would say better than the XBox 360.

It's probably too late for the PSP, but if Sony does try again, then their hardware needs to be cheap ($170 at launch with memory stick and then drop in a year or so) and games should be no more than $30 at launch, and have your platinum hits program be $15 games. Also you need to work with the third parties so that there's more than 2 or 3 quality games coming out for it each year. Your name's not Nintendo, so you can't get away with that.
 
[quote name='o2012o']They absolutely impact the used market, but this is sorta what it's come to for PSP.

Perhaps if this system expands to PS3, they will give each copy a few uses per serial number.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's my concern.

I"m as anti piracy as it gets, and 100% support companies taking measures to stop it. They just have to find ways to make things harder on pirates without hurting legit users.

Myself, I get most of my games off Goozex, and pretty much every game gets traded on Goozex when I'm done with it.

I don't collect games, seldom ever replay games, so I have no use to keep games around after beating them. If the industry moves to schemes that prevent trading, selling etc. (be it DRM, entitlement codes, going to download only etc.) I'd been done with gaming as I'm not into it enough to spend money that I can recoup some of down the road.
 
Funny PS2 still got one of the best protection against backups online, as the key is on the disc itself. There are ways to get around that but it is a lot of work for most people
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']The reason software wasn't selling on the PSP at the beginning was a lack of quality and price. I had a PSP at launch in 05 and bought a few games. It wasn't until 2006 that some quality games came out (Syphon Filter and SOCOM.) By 07 I had sold my PSP (got a 1/2 case of the new VS System set.) Also the price of games was an issue as all new PSP titles started out at $40 and didn't drop for about a year.

When you have a system that has a lack of software and what software available is too expensive, then you have people trying to find something else to do with it, hence the piracy. Why will I buy a $40 game when I can download every single SNES, Genesis, N64, PS1 game I want and play it on there?

The software drought continued through 07 and 08 as quality titles were few and far between (GoW, R&C, second Syphon Filter, second Fireteam Bravo, FF VII Crisis Core)

It wasn't until 09 that the drought of quality software ended, but everything was $40 at launch, the DS had become a juggernaut with most of its software (minus Nintendo and Square Enix produced games) being $30 or less new, your unit costs more than your biggest competitor who's outselling you 3 to 1 most months, the IPhone/IPod Touch had lots of games for under $10, you confused/pissed off your main market and potential new customers with the PSP Go fiasco, and the pirates overran your platform because you thought 2 good games a year was enough to keep the owners of your system satisfied.[/QUOTE]
The quality software issue was pretty much over by the time Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops was released near the end of 2006, as evidenced by the number of quality games that came out in 07:

Ratchet & Clank: Size Matters
Puzzle Quest: Challenge of the Warlords
Monster Hunter Freedom 2
Burnout Dominator
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions
Crush
Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow
Castlevania: Dracula X Chronicles
Silent Hill: Origins
SOCOM: Tactical Strike

A little more than two games there, though 2008 was lighter because publishers were getting fed up with piracy and weren't making anything until Sony showed some commitment to fixing the situation with the PSP Go. Here's what came out in 08:

Wipeout Pulse
Patapon
God of War: Chains of Olympus
Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee 2
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Space Invaders Extreme
Secret Agent Clank

And these games came out in the first half of the year, which is where the drought begins in the US. Of these games, maybe three or four did well in the US and that's not really an issue of there not being enough quality releases to buy.

Nobody with a DS or PSP expects, or at least should expect, iPhone-style pricing on the games. They're completely different markets with one offering controls that actually work for most of the games that are made for it versus having to figure out what kinds of games are able to be played on the system.
 
But Frisky you have to agree with me that $40 MSRP for a handheld game is a bad business decisions when your biggest direct competitor, who has a 5-1 sales advantage against you and has its own piracy problems, generally releases games for at least $10 less, right?
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']But Frisky you have to agree with me that $40 MSRP for a handheld game is a bad business decisions when your biggest direct competitor, who has a 5-1 sales advantage against you and has its own piracy problems, generally releases games for at least $10 less, right?[/QUOTE]

I disagree with this statement. Most DS games get released for less money because they're third-party shovelware. The titles you'd actually want to buy are equivalent to that of the PSP.

And for every quality game that gets released for a few bucks less on the DS, there's an equivalent on the PSP.
 
If this makes used games cost $20 more via a fee we gotta pay to fuckin' Sony, then Sony can suck my balls and I'll sell everything Sony branded I own.

But if it's just for PSP and to stop 'zomg pirates', then whatever since it doesn't affect me.
 
As usual the legitimate consumers get screwed. Sounds like Ubisoft is going to release their games with DRM that requires an online connection at all times regardless of whether it's a story mode or MP too. I believe this will kill the used market and it will do more to drive people toward piracy than ramp up new sales than anything. I realize the new game price point has increased because of the production involved, but between the economy and abundant supply of quality titles there's no way that this will equal that much more sales of $60 games.

http://www.joystiq.com/2010/02/17/ubisoft-drm-doesnt-sound-like-such-a-good-idea-anymore/
 
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[quote name='MSUHitman']But Frisky you have to agree with me that $40 MSRP for a handheld game is a bad business decisions when your biggest direct competitor, who has a 5-1 sales advantage against you and has its own piracy problems, generally releases games for at least $10 less, right?[/QUOTE]
I've already mentioned that the price point is one of its issues:
so price drops probably have to happen on the systems (it'll be three years since the last drop in April) and games (no more $40 games) along with a new marketing push to have a chance at reviving the public's interest in the system.
Click to expand...
Because people aren't buying the games as it is, continuing to charge that much is just going to keep them from buying the games.
 
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