Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void

You know its funny, battle.net is full of Terran plays with all these toss and zerg nerfs, yet not a single Terran remains in the HDH tournament. I'm not on board with any void nerf, rather im not on board with any toss or zerg nerf unless they revamp reapers.

[quote name='dcm1602']Nothings that effective vs em though[/QUOTE]
I was playing with that unit matchup thing that crotch linked earlier, and through a couple of test runs, Equal resource value of hydras for every voidray always beat them in any scenerio of upgrades and phase charge, whether they started the battle phase 3 or phase 1. Same goes for marines. Stalkers however, won against phase1, but lost against pre-charged voids. Also if i recall, prior to the the patch that removed their phase 2 and revamped the VR, it was actually weaker against light armor with a phase 3 damage of 8 (now its 10). People were complaining they weren't doing enough damage to light...

In an actual skirmish, if your opponent is using voidrays, dont ever use bcs or thors or anything with high hp for them to charge off of. Without them, its really difficult for them to phase up since all your small units will die relatively quick.
 
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[quote name='Magus8472']http://www.youtube.com/huskystarcraft#p/u/7/s0eu0VRyM-4

It's worth watching, if you haven't seen it.[/QUOTE]

Only part 1 was showing up for me... so i couldn't see all of it. but i DO see where the game was going based on part 1 - queens are AA. Transfusion also makes them very resilient against attacks, if you have enough of them.

Queens are at best a defensive unit. They DO have 150 HP, but you can't use queens in a base raid. IF you were trying to go on the offense, you couldn't pick off AA when you attack. perhaps that is by design, but it is a limitation that only zerg have. Terrans have T1 marines, protoss have T1.5 stalker.

Zerg have T2.5 hydra as their only ground based offensive STA/STS unit. with the recent roach nerf, Zerg really aren't the swarm anymore; they have no 1 food units. zerglings are half a food, but everything else is 2 or more supply.

I think they should swap the hydra and roach in the zerg tech tree; reduce hydra damage and HP, reduce cost, reduce to 1 food, make roach more expensive, give them their armor and better regen again.
 
[quote name='Tony208']if no skilled noobs are pwning with Void Rays I wonder what those Koreans can do with a Ray[/QUOTE]
the top korean player says you can counter rays with 4 marines and a viking
 
[quote name='kainzero']the top korean player says you can counter rays with 4 marines and a viking[/QUOTE]

So to kill 1 void ray (2 units) you need to use 4 marines and a viking (6 units).

I see some potential problems with that.
 
[quote name='dcm1602']So to kill 1 void ray (2 units) you need to use 4 marines and a viking (6 units).

I see some potential problems with that.[/QUOTE]
Void Rays are three food, no? And they come out slower than four Marines and a Viking? And they cost more gas than all that?
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Void Rays are three food, no? And they come out slower than four Marines and a Viking? And they cost more gas than all that?[/QUOTE]

Ah yeah they are 3 supply not 2.

So its 250minerals and 150 gas 3 supply for 1 VR, vs 350 minerals 75 gas 6 supply for their counter.

Maybe its just me but id gladly sacrifice a little gas to save on all the supply cap.

I mean im really not going to whine about VRs much since I play protoss, but theres no doubt in my mind theyre definitely the best unit in the game and by a significant margin.

And if their best counter requires the other guy to have twice as many units as you, well thats not much of a counter in my opinion.
 
I've found that battlecruisers aren't too bad against void rays if you use the yamato cannon, just have to kill them as fast as possible.
 
By the time your opponent pops out void rays, you should already have a sufficient supply of units anyway. How hard is it to mass light units against them?
 
[quote name='KhaosX']By the time your opponent pops out void rays, you should already have a sufficient supply of units anyway. How hard is it to mass light units against them?[/QUOTE]

Hard. That is the point. Voids have a range of 7 and their damage type is really efficient. If they position right, your light units can't all even shoot them.. and they pick your units off faster than they should be able to.

Someone who is really good playing voids against someone who is really good with anything else.. the voids almost always have a greater than even chance to win.
 
[quote name='KhaosX']By the time your opponent pops out void rays, you should already have a sufficient supply of units anyway. How hard is it to mass light units against them?[/QUOTE]

Protoss can get VRs out REALLY fast while popping out a zealots.

Gateway - Zealot spamming

While adding a cybernetics core then your starport.

Zealots should be more than enough to hold off any rush till you get your first VR up. Add in the chronos power from the nexus and you can get a VR up real quick. Plus 1 VR should be more than enough to crush MOST rushes.
 
I think the problem is the amount of resources/effort you need to counter rays
that guy in the video was about to mass queens because he saw rays
just like running away from mass Raven missiles is a lot of micro work
it's a lot easier to spam missiles on a bunch of units than it is to select those units to run away
 
[quote name='dcm1602']Ah yeah they are 3 supply not 2.

So its 250minerals and 150 gas 3 supply for 1 VR, vs 350 minerals 75 gas 6 supply for their counter.

Maybe its just me but id gladly sacrifice a little gas to save on all the supply cap.

I mean im really not going to whine about VRs much since I play protoss, but theres no doubt in my mind theyre definitely the best unit in the game and by a significant margin.

And if their best counter requires the other guy to have twice as many units as you, well thats not much of a counter in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
if we go to BW, TvZ standard, there's a point in the game where zerg has 1100 mins, 1100 gas, 22 supply. (mutalisk harass).

To stall it, you need turrets (75 minerals each) a ton of marine medic, stim. To fully counter it you need irradiate, which requires factory/port.

Granted, I can't beat VRs but I would rather try to stop it than to force balance changes.
 
Well I think the eventual change were going to see with VRs is reducing their min damage,and increasing their max damage. So that theyll still fill the exact same role of having their damage increase with time, and theyll still be JUST as effective as taking out bigger units/buildings (ie keeping roughly the same average damage).

And this would solve the issue of them decimating weak units which is supposed to be their counter.
 
[quote name='TravistyOJ']Oh bother. Just when I got some decent achievements, they will be lost forever.[/QUOTE]

So we loose our achievements?
 
[quote name='JolietJake']What is the point in that? To make some changes and then open it back up?[/QUOTE]

I'm thinking what they create once this initial phase ends will be the shipped game, then they will open it back up with the shipped game settings, allowing time to create a day one patch to fix any balance/general issues that will be in the game.
 
[quote name='Mag215']So we loose our achievements?[/QUOTE]

eventually, yes. It was sort of given that everything would be wiped before the game's actual release
 
I have no interest in learning what my APM is in SC2.. i still think it's a somewhat pointless metric in this game. I see people trying to jack up their APM by adding a lot of useless clicks, while I just play the game and do the extra movements when required.

I'm sure there are a lot of worse players than me with vastly superior APMs.

I get that the idea is you're paying a lot of attention to your game, but if you set your units to move or attack right the first time you don't necessarily need to divert them a million times like I see people doing to try to inflate that metric... good use of hotkeys and control groups make micromanagement of groups AND maintaining unit production a hell of a lot easier than in the first game.

I see people overmicro a lot in this game because they're too worried about some phantom statistic that says how 'good' they are. Just because someone gives a move order 47 times in a minute rather than the one time that is necessary doesn't make them a better player.

In SC1 i think it was more important because group movement and controls, along with peon management were factored into the value. In SC2, much of the tedium (that required the extra clicks) is automated brilliantly.
 
[quote name='Oktoberfest']eventually, yes. It was sort of given that everything would be wiped before the game's actual release[/QUOTE]

I still wonder about the 'beta' specific achievements - such as "I'm loving the beta" and "Beta Crusher".

Because they are specific to the beta, I really wonder if there'll be some code, or carryover to the final release. There hasn't been anything official about any of that, but I still wonder.

I could have sworn that after one of the more recent wipes that the 'I'm loving the beta' achievement was already unlocked when I recreated my identical character. We'll see when the final game comes out though!
Another thought is that Blizzard is keeping track of who gets the achievements. People who unlocked more of the achivements were more active in the beta. Perhaps they'll give priority to the active players in future testing.

The only other option is that those were just for fun, and will go away forever. While it is the most likely reason, I'd like to hope that they served some kind of purpose.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']I have no interest in learning what my APM is in SC2.. i still think it's a somewhat pointless metric in this game. I see people trying to jack up their APM by adding a lot of useless clicks, while I just play the game and do the extra movements when required.

I'm sure there are a lot of worse players than me with vastly superior APMs.
[/QUOTE]
To me APM is like the 40-yard dash at the NFL scouting combine. It's a raw number that's somewhat useful.

My micro and early game play need a lot of work. But when the game kicks in the mid-late game, my ability to macro and manage multiple bases (which manifests itself in APM) usually gives me a huge advantage.

My APM rises as the game goes on, not the other way around like all those spammers. It's always fun to watch a game and see someone hit 180 APM in the beginning and bottom out to 60 average in the end.
 
Its a good way to warm up I guess. A person who just apm spams will react better to a rush 3 minutes into the game as opposed to one who doesn't. But it seems to me as the game draws out, there really isn't much of an advantage.
 
[quote name='kainzero']To me APM is like the 40-yard dash at the NFL scouting combine. It's a raw number that's somewhat useful.

My micro and early game play need a lot of work. But when the game kicks in the mid-late game, my ability to macro and manage multiple bases (which manifests itself in APM) usually gives me a huge advantage.

My APM rises as the game goes on, not the other way around like all those spammers. It's always fun to watch a game and see someone hit 180 APM in the beginning and bottom out to 60 average in the end.[/QUOTE]

That seems logical enough. The modernizations in SC2 absolutely made the necessity of the mad clicking LESS important.. the ability to queue at multiple buildings, set rally points for multiple buildings at once, and setting peons to minerals/gas automatically seriously reduced the number of required clicks to be good compared to Starcraft, where you had to eagle-eye every peon pop to make sure you were being efficient.

The simple modernizations in SC2 are the things I like most about it.. I can focus on the strategy rather than the logistics of managing a base. I still find I do a bit of clicking when micromanaging or during the initial base builds, but SC2 is a WAY less punishing game than SC1 ever was.
 
whew.. just ordered almost $900 worth of parts to slap together for this game (and others). hope it's worth it. :) guess i'm a bit late joining the party it seems.
 
Technically it's much easier to micro and macro in SC2, but SC2 is much faster-paced than BW, so APM will matter eventually (once people start to actually figure the game out)
 
I think I just found my true calling as Zerg. I'm not as bad as I thought I was with the race. I just played as zerg for the third time in the beta and I enjoyed it. After playing all fo my 1v1 placement matches, I'm now understanding why people keep saying Platinum is very watered down. I just got placed into a Plat league when, in my opinion, I'm a gold. I'm not that good, but somehow I'm a platinum player.
 
[quote name='kainzero']battlechicken drops but joe still wins the game for everyone[/QUOTE]

Yeah. my internet connection just dropped. I don't know when the cable company fixed it, but it was down for at least an hour - I went to sleep not long after that.

To be fair, when it dropped me I had tanks, hellions, and rines out in my base, and I was harassing the zerg pretty effectively (i got at least 20 lings, 7 drones, and 2 queens).

My base was reasonably well developed, so managing it after it kicked me didn't require superhuman reflexes. ;)

I still think we should have SCV rushed!
 
well to be honest the opponents sucked. watching the replays, zerg had like 4000 minerals and 2000 gas and an extra expansion, but decided to build two spawning pools?

i wanted to horse around with mass ravens but i screwed up.
 
[quote name='kainzero']well to be honest the opponents sucked. watching the replays, zerg had like 4000 minerals and 2000 gas and an extra expansion, but decided to build two spawning pools?

i wanted to horse around with mass ravens but i screwed up.[/QUOTE]


Ravens are awesome. I hear the changes to HSM made them slightly less awesome.. it can't kill an ultralisk or anything but you can demolish a mineral line.

I see people say "bring back the science vessel, ravens suck" and I wonder what they're smoking.

Raven basically have dark swarm! they couldn't BE much more awesome.
 
I'm really just waiting for a nerf to siege tanks... they're so ridiculous. I almost just want to leave the game at the start whenever I'm faced against a Terran
 
All you need are some air to ground units. Even then, some stronger ground units can take them our pretty easily. That's one reason i hate playing terran vs terran, a few stimmed marauders can easily kill a tank.
 
Tanks are only hard on Zerg who don't have a good ground counter.

Ravens are underrated, they are really good if used correctly. They are so annoying when you're Zerg, no good counters for them.
 
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