Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void

Today I was asked something of a philosophical question by one of my opponents during a 4v4:

"WHO THE HELL BUILDS A PF IN THEIR MAIN?!!"

Despite their early attacks. We won.

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Who attacks the guy with the PF in his main?[/QUOTE]

Also a valid question.

Also, you should hop on.

~HotShotX
 
We have to decide on a day and time and all get together to play, at least 6 for a full team.
\
I wish I'd saved the replay, but in one of the games I played yesterday my entire team was wiped out save for one Leviathan, dude managed to hold off the remaining 4 people on the other team for quite a while, even took one of them out I think. He eventually lost, but I couldn't believe how well he held out.
 
[quote name='Clak']We have to decide on a day and time and all get together to play, at least 6 for a full team.
\
I wish I'd saved the replay, but in one of the games I played yesterday my entire team was wiped out save for one Leviathan, dude managed to hold off the remaining 4 people on the other team for quite a while, even took one of them out I think. He eventually lost, but I couldn't believe how well he held out.[/QUOTE]

Look up Flagship Battle, it's the spiritual successor to Star Battle, as in they took their idea and vastly improved it.

It should show up in the second page of customs.

~HotShotX
 
you know, i've given star battle a shot several times now and I found it to be a little bit dull compared to the standard game. I can absolutely see why people may like to play it, but I don't think that mod is for me.

Are there any other popular mods you would suggest i try? I haven't done much with the mods since there weren't many good ones right before I took my long break, and I haven't been back long since it ended.
 
Today's Penny Arcade seems rather relevant to this thread.

1187426273_pB6an-L.jpg
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']you know, i've given star battle a shot several times now and I found it to be a little bit dull compared to the standard game. I can absolutely see why people may like to play it, but I don't think that mod is for me.

Are there any other popular mods you would suggest i try? I haven't done much with the mods since there weren't many good ones right before I took my long break, and I haven't been back long since it ended.[/QUOTE]
Star Battle reminds me of the old Star Trek Armada games, in fact if someone made a Star Trek mod for SB I would scream like a woman.
 
[quote name='Clak']We have to decide on a day and time and all get together to play, at least 6 for a full team.
\
I wish I'd saved the replay, but in one of the games I played yesterday my entire team was wiped out save for one Leviathan, dude managed to hold off the remaining 4 people on the other team for quite a while, even took one of them out I think. He eventually lost, but I couldn't believe how well he held out.[/QUOTE]

I may have played with that same guy. I ended up 2 v 5 with me and him vs the rest with both our vessels down. He ended up killing almost everyone on his own except at the very end where it came to a showdown between him and a void. Unfortunately he was fighting 2 guys and the difference between victories was just a few hundred hp.
 
Man, since the patch I've either:

1) had the worst luck ever
2) the matcher is broken and I'm getting games with people way better than me
3) I've randomly become terrible at SC2.

For my terran games, it's absolutely 3, but I played pretty damn well my protoss and zerg games but I kept losing last night. Unfortunate.
 
I'm starting to think my whiny rant may be somewhat accurate.. i started checking the placements of the people in the various games I played last night, and every game I lost - which was most of them last night - I was paired with a low gold against chosen-team high diamond players.

I'd hold my own, but my partners would get wiped out by a 7 pool, or some other form of easy-to-combat early aggression and I'd lose - I was genuinely frustrated with my games last night. Perhaps I just need to stop 2v2r, since the elements of randomness are more frustrating than fun as of late.
 
Tried flagship battle over the weekend, it's meh. Star Battle is way more fun and populated. I really like the capture point type game mode where you have to cap the vespene geysers. I like that you accumulate minerals a lot faster, doesn't take forever to upgrade like the normal version, unless you're off farming a lot.
 
1.3 patch notes

http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/1213111662

Balance
GENERAL

Players can no longer hide units by setting them in a close proximity patrol (Viking flower).

PROTOSS

Mothership
Units leaving the Mothership's Vortex are now un-targetable and immune to damage for 1.5 seconds.

High Templar
Khaydarin Amulet upgrade (+25 starting energy) has been removed.

Zealot
Charging Zealots will now hit fleeing targets at least once.


TERRAN

Battlecruiser

Movement speed increased from 1.406 to 1.875.

Bunker
Build time increased from 35 to 40 seconds.

Tech Lab
Stimpack upgrade research time increased from 140 to 170 seconds.


ZERG

Infestor
Health increased from 90 to 110.

Fungal Growth
Stun duration decreased from 8 to 4 seconds.

Damage increased by +30% vs. armored units.

Now fires a missile instead of being instant cast.
Click to expand...

Huge blow to Protoss. Goodbye Archon Toilet and severely nurfs High Templar.
 
Enormous protoss late-game nerf in the form of the removal of the HT's amulet. And now the mothership has lost about its only interesting tactical option.

At least the custom games navigation and observer UI have been improved.

But still. fuck. +30 time on stim... eh, sure, I'll take it, but holy god damn.

And I have no idea what's up with the fungal changes.

EDIT: This is a bit odd to find shunted away in the "bug fixes" section...

# An alert has been added when MULEs expire.

# An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.

# An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know motherships have recall, too, but... no. fuck that. I'm not gonna get the most expensive unit in the game to do something a god damn arbiter can.
 
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[quote name='The Crotch']Enormous protoss late-game nerf in the form of the removal of the HT's amulet. And now the mothership has lost about its only interesting tactical option.[/QUOTE]
i dunno why they just made it more bio ball friendly

meh
 
[quote name='kainzero']i dunno why they just made it more bio ball friendly

meh[/QUOTE]

Yup, no point in even teching up to HT anymore, every Protoss late game now is gonna use Collsi.
 
Well.

If I'm lucky, maybe it'll be like the whole "fungal no longer hits air" thing of the old PTR. At the very least, I'd expect the amulet to get nerfed to some sort of a "faster energy (re)generation for HT" thing or something.
 
en-mass, voids are arguably the most powerful air unit. equal supply voids vs equal supply any other air unit, voids win, i'm fairly certain. The move speed gave them a little too much power as a harassment force in addition to being the most powerful air unit... so I can see why they removed the void speed upgrade.

The energy boost to HTs I can also somewhat understand.. with the ugprade they pop out with the ability to use their most powerful ability, making them viable as an "oh shit" warp-in response to an incoming attack. Removing the energy bump makes it so they have to be a more strategic long-term choice, which I like. HOWEVER, it seems strange to me to make HT less viable at creation than Ghosts or Infestors - all of them should have the energy bump removed, or none of them should.
 
[quote name='Clak']Wtf is with all the toss hate lately. First they take away the speed upgrade for voids, now this? fuck....[/QUOTE]

Although I don't agree with the HT nerf, you have no right to complain as a Toss :p. Toss constantly roll me over with their Colossus/VR army. As a Zerg, I can't do shit about that. It's either I end up getting too many Corruptors and my ground army is lacking, or I don't get enough Corruptors and I get rolled by the Void rays. It doesn't really help that Voids are the counter to Corruptors either -_- and that's our only unit that can kill Colossus effectively.
 
I usually hear that beating colossus+void as a zerg generally comes down to "make way too many corruptors, engage them as far from your base as you can, then go hard on roaches and as many hydras as you can afford."

You go in expecting to lose your initial army - hence the need to engage far from home. If you're on Steppes or some shit... eh, good luck.
 
i don't want a storm nerf (although i actually really appreciate it, warp-in storm is bs) but i'd rather terran have some other unit combo that's effective

instead we just get "now you can bio ball harder!"

also i don't think this makes HTs useless. storm is still disgustingly good and easy to use.
 
so, new maps, eh?
i kinda want to start playing seriously again, but...

1: i feel like if i wanted to play 1v1 RTS seriously i'd just play BW because it seems more fun.
2: mvc3 feeds my competitive spirit right now.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']I usually hear that beating colossus+void as a zerg generally comes down to "make way too many corruptors, engage them as far from your base as you can, then go hard on roaches and as many hydras as you can afford."

You go in expecting to lose your initial army - hence the need to engage far from home. If you're on Steppes or some shit... eh, good luck.[/QUOTE]

The only problem I have with that is that the Protoss army is pretty much on my doorstep or destroying one of my expansions while I wait for my roaches/hydras to pop. These new maps seem to help that quite a lot, but small maps or engaging too close to my base is a huge problem.

As for other things that need a nerf... Marauders anyone? :p Maybe marines? It's disgusting how good marines are late-game versus anything. 50 minerals should not be that good against any T2.5-T3 unit. I think it's hilarious how marines w/ medivacs take 5 shots for an Ultralisk to kill and the splash damage isn't even that great.
 
Looks like BCs just became a viable unit for me again, now that they aren't slow as shit and can actually react to an attack.

I suspect the MS/HT nerfs are going to result in a lot more DTs being made. Storms are nice, but Archons on their own aren't very effective without the toilet option, imo. This also affects the baneling version of the toilet.

~HotShotX
 
You want me to use DTs? Get rid of the Dark Shrine.

You want me to use Archons? Make them massive.

Not to say that I haven't ever used DTs to great effect. In particular, I recall mixing a few DTs in with a push against a zerg and barely breaking through with an army that woudl have otherwise been flattened while simultaneously bringing a warp prism into his natural and main, laying invisible, sword-wielding goodness in his mineral lines. fuck, that was a good game.
 
Man. I'm just sucking it up in my 2v2r games lately. I've been demoted to gold from diamond, and my win/loss ratio changed to like 40% from 60%. Since the patch that changed the matcher, i get a LOT of games where it's me and someone who's much, much worse at the game than me against a matched team who are about as good as I am.

I'll usually do well, holding off the initial several pushes almost single handedly, but eventually I'll get overwhelmed because my econ can't keep up with what they're spitting out. My partner will then leave, and suddenly I'll have 2000 minerals and 1000 gas with no infrastructure to build anything.

It's happened so many times in the last few weeks.. I'm thinking some of it has to do with the time of night I play, which is in the window of 11 pm and 2am - I believe the skill level of people playing SC2 on a week-night at 1 am is higher than the dinner crowd because SC2 fanatics will play long into the night, while casuals don't.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Yeah, storm didn't need a nerf so much as things that are strong against storm needed a buff.[/QUOTE]
storm was also balanced in BW because of the difficulty it took to use them. they were also used against metal in BW TvP, but it was hard to use effectively as you had to sneak in a shuttle and make sure they don't get sniped by tanks, then you had to individually target each storm.

now that they've taken away the difficulty it's actually quite easy to storm everything so it's more broken. amulet upgrade just made it so much easier and storm is just so effective against everything anyway.
 
Well, HTs Vs Thors.

Can you kill their escorts? Sure. Can you kill the thors? No. Never. fucking never. Storm just doesn't do it. It's like an arbiter trying to shoot a zealot to death, only the zealot has a giant fucking gun.

Besides that, simply shuttling an HT around in a fight is much harder because terran anti-air units are far, far more prevalent than they ever were before. You never saw goliaths and turrets in BW that match the marines and vikings of today.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Well, HTs Vs Thors.

Can you kill their escorts? Sure. Can you kill the thors? No. Never. fucking never. Storm just doesn't do it. It's like an arbiter trying to shoot a zealot to death, only the zealot has a giant fucking gun.

Besides that, simply shuttling an HT around in a fight is much harder because terran anti-air units are far, far more prevalent than they ever were before. You never saw goliaths and turrets in BW that match the marines and vikings of today.[/QUOTE]
that's a terrible analogy. you sure as hell don't see hts in BW storming tanks on their own either, it's just that having them around to do damage made them melt much faster

as for shuttling an HT, you don't need to do that anymore in SC2 because you can just warp them in, siege tanks aren't as big a concern as they were in BW so you don't have to fly around to find that sweet spot, the psi storm range is big enough so they don't have to get dropped in close to do it, etc.
 
And in Brood War, your tier one guys could fight without tier three units from time to time.

I get into HT vs thor fights plenty, actually. Over-make HTs, storm the cunts off of his infantry while the lesser gateway units evaporate in standard fashion, and suddenly it's two of the slowest units in the game staring each-other down.

That's protoss nowadays. A bunch of really weak units huddled in front of/underneath a bunch of super fucking powerful units.

And as far as prisms go: building one of those really does feel like throwing 200 minerals (and precious robo bay time) into marine/viking fire. It's a pretty deeply ingrained part of the SC2 protoss mindset at this point: our enemies (well, mostly terrans) are always building cuntloads of anti-air, so why in the fuck should we be making more things for them to shoot?

That, and the fact that until chargelots, DTs, or HTs, protoss... don't really have dangerous drops. Marauders can snipe buildings like motherfuckers. Hellions or banelings can demolish a worker line. Marines can just be all-around badasses. Zealots and stalkers can... I don't know. Pew pew a bit, then retreat.

Now, dropping in a main near the ramp while the main army is at the natural and forcefielding the choke? That can do some good.
 
[quote name='Clak']I've all but stopped playing normal matches, customs are just more fun to me.[/QUOTE]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. Customs are hella fun.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']I'm powering through Valkyria Chronicles right now.

See y'all later.[/QUOTE]
me too!
i have to finish vc2 before my import vc3 comes in, haha.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']In a ladder FFA:

Opponent: "What can counter that many Thors?"
Me: "More Thors."
Opponent: "Lol, fair enough."

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]
thor or way more stim marauders, maybe? If the marauder ran in so they could all shoot the thors and then stimmed, i'm pretty sure stimmed marauders could win.. equal supply for equal supply.

I'm trying to figure out (in my head) if battlecruisers against mass thor would win without yamato. I think that one would depend greatly on the upgrades, but in either case it would be a really, really long battle.
 
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