Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void

[quote name='Clak']Not necessarily, but once you hit a kind of critical mass of units, what's really the point in building more than you need? I mean you could start expanding like crazy, but then that's more resources to spend. I've built pylon farms before just to rid myself of excess resources. But the way the game scores things does seem to encourage keeping low resource levels.[/QUOTE]
I have no idea what you mean by critical mass...

There's always something to get. And if there isn't, then you should've won (or in the process of winning) already.

The only time you should be stockpiling resources is if you're at 200/200.

@The Crotch: Let me know when you wanna play if you need PvT practice, then. I don't think I'll log onto B.Net on my own so you'll have to let me know beforehand.
 
[quote name='Gamehead']IMNestea vs ChoyafOu Spoilers

In game 1I could not believe that Nestea held that push in game 1. Artosis and Tasteless said he was done as Choya was moving in. That defense was one of the best back and forth that I have seen in the GSL. It was only a handful of units each encounter, but was very awesome. Choya played much smarter than he did in previous games, but could not stop Nestea at all.
[/QUOTE]
That was pretty crazy. No way I would have thought he'd win that.

On unrelated note, does anyone get annoyed at people who pronounce zealot as "zea-lot"?
 
[quote name='kainzero']I have no idea what you mean by critical mass...

There's always something to get. And if there isn't, then you should've won (or in the process of winning) already.

The only time you should be stockpiling resources is if you're at 200/200.

@The Crotch: Let me know when you wanna play if you need PvT practice, then. I don't think I'll log onto B.Net on my own so you'll have to let me know beforehand.[/QUOTE]
Do keep in mind this usually happens in matches against the computer, but it does happen, and while I may have been able to win a little faster had I built more, it gets to the point when you have more than enough units and building anything else would just be to rid yourself of excess resources. I mean if I'm sitting on 3000 resources and in the process of destroying my enemy, am I supposed to back off long enough to build more units or something? That'd be ridiculous. The reason i think it happens is that mid game I need resources badly and quickly, so I expand and build lots of gatherers. Closer to the end game I've got them, but I haven't reduced my collection rate. Basically I could either build more buildings for the sake of it, or slow my collection rate by sending gatherers to die.

I mean just as an example, I ended a game with 12 gateways, 2 robos and 2 stargates. and I still could have built more. This doesn't usually happen in games against a human player, and I can see why you'd think it shouldn't.

edit- Day9 is my hero.
 
Ah shit, forgot about the GSL. Did I miss anything? It's NaDa Vs Foxer. Is this game one? fuck, better be game one.

EDIT: Games!

NaDa Vs Foxer (MarineKing) Game 1:
Missed the beginning, but after Foxer dropped NaDa while taking his third, the two terrans began trading armies and SCVs rapidly.

Things progressed to both players losing their everythingbuttheirarmies - Foxer floated an orbital away but had no production facilities and a smaller army. NaDa had a starport and other buildings with a superior army but no command center. NaDa eventually felt safe enough to start killing his own units to get the supply to make a viking.

However, at the same time, Foxer hid his command center and started mining. He, too, killed his own units to start making SCVs. With the last of NaDa's supply depots destroyed, his dwindling forces and not-quite-good-enough scouting were unable to stop Foxer from clawing his way back into the game. Foxer rebuilt (using the supply drop feature of the OC for, like, the first time ever), and with his bunkers, marines, and last medivac, he held NaDa's final push. Game one goes to MarineKing.

Game 2:
Foxer hides his second barracks and drags a crapload of SCVs with him. It arrives as NaDa has a marine and a reaper. NaDa mis-manages his units and lets them get surrounded by the SCVs. Game two goes to MarineKing.

Game 3:
Wall-in for Foxer, who gets his gas before expanding while NaDa goes for a one-barracks expand before his double gas.

Then the GOM player crashed.

Okay, where were we? Right. NaDa's making cloaked banshees and siege tanks with siege mode. Foxer's making marines. Of fucking course. NaDa loses his first banshee after only four kills, though the second one at least delayed Foxer's attack.

Foxer later drops, killing numerous depots and a starport. Foxer takes his third at the gold, and another base trade ensues. NaDa manages to kill off most of Foxer's army yet again but JESUS fuck NADA LIFT YOUR fuckING COMMAND CENTER OFF YOU BASTARD. Why do you keep doing this? fuck, man.

Okay. Foxer still has CCs. NaDa at least has the money for another CC this time. After a stimmed charge, he drops one of Foxer's CCs. Foxer tries to go for mass banshees to take advantage of NaDa's nonexistent detection, but he he over-invested in production facilities. NaDa does a cautious push with half of his army, but it is eliminated. Foxer loses his first banshee after zero kills, and expands to NaDa's gold (NaDa being up at Foxer's natural now).

The two base-trade again forcing more floating. Ultimately, NaDa's tank-heavy army is unable to deal with Foxer's more mobile marine-medivac composition. Game three goes to Foxer.

Game 4:
NaDa is eliminated.

Game 5:
Shame. I was cheering for NaDa.

IdrA Vs Jinro:
Jinro won. Missed those games; fuck. He'll play Foxer, then. Nestea is the only zerg left amongst a pile of terrans.
 
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[quote name='Clak']Do keep in mind this usually happens in matches against the computer[/QUOTE]
oh okay

but then, why does score really matter against the computer?



@The Crotch: I'll be home in about 3 hours, i can play 1 or 2 games.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Sounds good.[/QUOTE]

Call me on Skype when you do, I'm in as well.

(Looking to kick ass with Hydras and Nydus, OMFG it's so effective.)

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Hmm. It would help counteract their mobility issue, but nydus worms? Really?

Anyway, I'll hop on soon.[/QUOTE]

"Nydus Worms: Every Zerg unit might as fucking well be air."

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='kainzero']oh okay

but then, why does score really matter against the computer?



@The Crotch: I'll be home in about 3 hours, i can play 1 or 2 games.[/QUOTE]
2v2 matches with a friend against the ai.;)
 
things to work on:

-build bunkers when i 1 rax expand. oops. more bunkers, not more barracks.
-commit to a rush, don't 3 rax expand.
-similarly, the timing for ghosts ends after the expand
-teching to vikings is more important than creating a bioball after the expand
 
Correction: teching to vikings is more important if I've gone robo.

In that games, I sure as fuck had gone robo.

EDIT: And really, I think of it more as teching to medivacs, which is a natural part of bio play, anyway. The vikings don't really need to come out 'til you see the colossus den.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Correction: teching to vikings is more important if I've gone robo.

In that game, I sure as fuck had gone robo.[/QUOTE]
My plan was
3rax rush --> expand --> emp ghost timing attack before colossi/hts came out --> tech to medivacs and/or vikings

but it turns out
-3rax rush became expo defense because i expanded too early. probably should fit in the ghost timing attack before the expo.
-you attacked before ghost was out, let alone had enough for emp, which damaged me pretty badly
-that attack left me confused, because there was a window when i should've attacked after, but i was too apprehensive so i bioballed instead of deciding to either tech or attack
-got run over by colossi

i don't even think you can say "medivacs = bio play" because quite frankly with terran there is nothing else but bio play
 
[quote name='kainzero']
i don't even think you can say "medivacs = bio play" because quite frankly with terran there is nothing else but bio play[/QUOTE]
What about 1/1/1? Or the marine-tank thing that's getting more popular?

All involve bio to an extent, but saying that terrans are limited to MMM with the odd ghost seems a little short-sighted.

EDIT: Or this. Terran air is fucking awesome.
 
I stopped playing starcraft 2 i got annoyed by all the cheap **** people were doing. I had one game where I got a proxy pylon + cannons+ mass warped stalkers in my base. And in another I got worker rushed how can you counter worker rushes? it seems only like just micro god i hate people that ruin the game.
 
[quote name='spiderman4657']I stopped playing starcraft 2 i got annoyed by all the cheap **** people were doing. I had one game where I got a proxy pylon + cannons+ mass warped stalkers in my base. And in another I got worker rushed how can you counter worker rushes? it seems only like just micro god i hate people that ruin the game.[/QUOTE]
Proxy pylons are usually given away by odd scouting timings (if they scout at all) and scouting probes making frequent trips to the same piece of fog. Ignore the cannon and pull ~3 workers per cannon. Send your first few units to the enemy mineral line. If you're really in shit, lift off (terran) or build a forge yourself (protoss) and cannons to prevent their cannons from advancing.

Worker rushes? Defender's advantage should give you more workers in virtually any situation. If you're zerg and they aren't, you can just attack-move into their workers and win handily, as zerg workers win in 1:1 fights with no micro. SCVs have to be a bit more careful, either avoiding engagement until they have a decent numbers advantage or a marine to help or they could engage and use mineral walking to dance wounded workers back (and autorepair, if you wish). Protoss lose to all other workers in straight-up fights, but with shield regeneration, you can easily pull back once your shields are burnt out then re-engage when they're up. Just don't get your ass surrounded - shoulnd't happen, as they shouldn't be outnumbering you - and you'll be fine.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']What about 1/1/1? Or the marine-tank thing that's getting more popular?

All involve bio to an extent, but saying that terrans are limited to MMM with the odd ghost seems a little short-sighted.

EDIT: Or this. Terran air is fucking awesome.[/QUOTE]
I feel like all of these are all just timing attacks, nothing "standard."

If the game lengthens after the opponent holds, guess what... bioball.
 
you counter the cannon rush by scouting. If you catch it before they warp in a pylon, it is painfully easy to defend using 3-4 peons per pylon/cannon. If you don't catch it until they have cannons phased in, it is more difficult but can still be held back using ranged units.

You counter a worker rush with your own workers -which you should have MORE of, since the enemy had to run the workers in to attack you. In the vast majority of cases, workers rushes are cake to beat, and your first attack unit(s) should be coming in at about the same time.

There are may be strategies that should be weakened through game balancing, but nobody is ruining the game by doing cannon or worker rushes.

Edit: Crotch replied similarly to me! Being late to the party is what I get for drafting my message and not submitting for an hour.
 
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tried logging in this evening to discover my account was locked for irregular logon activity. thing said it'd send me an email and gave me a link to go to, but the link just went to a page not found and i never got an email.

i haven't played starcraft for a while, is that enough to get them to lock my account? so damn obnoxious. unlocked it by resetting my password but why did this happen in the first place.
 
There is not one, and while I can't speak for others, I've no interest in joining one.

GSL semi-final spoilers:
MVP 3-1 over Nestea, Foxer 3-1 over Jinro. TvT finals in 5 days.

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKXXP-0H8ak

Now, for me, it's the banshee that deserves all the hatred, not the fucking bioball. I don't like marauders "as units" (just like how I dislike void rays "as units"), but it's the banshees that I truly despise.
 
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I've been playing around with the phoenix since the last update, man they're awesome for early harassment. I'd usually used voids and sometiems carriers in the past, ignoring the phoenix. Now that they build faster though, getting a good sized group out doesn't take long at all.
 
Yeah. Takes less than a minute to get two out of one stargate if you fire off some chrono boost. Phoenixes are bitching as fuck, even if they are the weakest of the air superiority fighters.
 
Yeah well I don't know how Starcraft clans work really. If it were all managed in the UI like it is in WoW I'd do it myself. Was just wondering if we had anything like that already in place here.
Anyway I'm mainly playing SC2 over all other games right now. I do have a vent server if anyone wants to put together a team. I'm still fighting my way out of Gold in 1v1, primarily as Zerg.
I have some good ideas for 2v2 that I think could get even higher than Gold but it's hard to get a good partner in random quick matches.

Also here's a couple links that might help you guys out:

http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/General_2v2_strategy
http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4330673/

Add me if interested, DeadOfKnight.656
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1452199/1/DeadOfKnight/

NOTE: I'm in Hawaii which is 2-3 hours behind west coast time and 5-6 hours behind east coast time (no DST here).
 
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Finals of the first proper GSL season are starting right now. MVP Vs Foxer in a TvT.

EDIT:

Game 1:
Scrap Station. Marine King fast expands off one barracks, forcing an expo out of MVP. MVP goes heavy barracks while Foxer turtles and goes for siege tanks and vikings. Foxer loses some SCVs and is forced to lift off until siege finishes. MVP transitions back in to a more normal setup. Both players try to harrass the other, but fail spectacularly. MVP expands to the gold, but loses workers to a blue flame hellions.

The two armies trade shots and end up stalled out at the Xel'naga. MVP holds his ground until he can bring his viking count up above Foxer's, then resumes the attack, Foxer panics and charges ahead, losing huge numbers of units and SCVs. Foxer tries to double expand, but he just doesn't have enough stuff to stop MVP from a-moving his units forward.

The two players played each-other's style off the hop, and it worked far better for MVP than it did for MKP. Game one goes to MVP.

Game 2:
Metalopolis. Cross positions. Foxer hides a fast expand behind the fog vents of another main, while MVP goes for a more normal fast expand - and, like a total fucking boss, MVP spots it and sends marines. Foxer floats off to the gold and reinforces with marines. Foxer goes on to take his natural while MVP goes for drops on the main while pushing the gold, killing bajillions of workers. Tanks at the watchtower force Foxer to pull back from his own gold, and he goes for MVP's natural with his marine army. MVP manages to hold it and counters. Foxer desperately sends his whole army at MVP's base, but MVP prepares for it perfectly.

MVP up 2-0 on Foxer so far.

Game 3:
Xel'naga Caverns. MVP hides a barracks while Foxer fast-expands. MVP hits just as Foxer's command center finishes, but Foxer's superior marine control keeps him alive. MVP adds on more barracks and gets his expansion mining before MarineKing, who adds on a factory. MVP attacks again, barely taking out the command center without losing a single marine. Foxer's lone advantage being tech, he attacks MVP with marines, SCVs, medivacs, shields and stim - unfortunately, waiting for the SCVs gave MVP just enough time to finish up shields and stim.

MVP is now at 3-0.

Game 4:
Blistering Sands. Foxer fast expands and throws down a bunch of barracks while MVP builds a factory. MVP rushes with marines and a hellion, but it fails miserably. Foxer tries to sneak in and hit MVP's rocks, but loses his attack force to siege tanks. Stim done, MVP charges Foxer's main, crushing the weakened army.

4-0 MVP.

Game 5:
Foxer's second time getting second in the finals. Yellow, much? MVP, meanwhile, is the first terran GSL champsion, after getting second place three seasons in a row.

Game 6:
Foxer absolutely did not look "on". He had tried to change things up from his previous games, and it worked horribly. MVP, on the other hand, was absolutely on top of fucking everything.

Game 7:
Notably, MVP prepared for the infamous base trades that wrecked NaDa very well - prepping units, pulling SCVs, and being ready to lift off at the drop of a hat. Damn fine work.
 
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[quote name='The Crotch']Also, OSL:

Fantasy > Stork. fuck.
[/QUOTE]
This is way more important than GSL!

Ugh.
Game 1: Stork gets a huge advantage, then squanders it on a really poor attack. Decides to tech to carriers after he lost that army, so he doesn't have anything to defend with. He tries some cute tricks but in the end he got run over by an army twice his size.

Game 2: Same stuff as Game 1, except Fantasy gets a wraith, wraith kills shuttle, 5 fact timing push to end the greedy 3rd Nex build. W/o shuttle/reaver, Stork can't do anything.

Game 3: Seems like Stork was just asking to be dropped, especially that odd Observatory placement. He didn't defend it very well, didn't defend anything very well, and lost convincingly to Fantasy carrying on with multi-front battles.

Damn you Fanta. I hate you.
 
Heh. I've been too busy to play much lately, but I did some games last night.

That first PvZ was probably the worst I've played in fucking ages, but I kept blindly stumbling into doing the correct thing - your mutas are on the move while my army's out? Every fucking stalker I own accidentally runs into them on the way! - until my opponent just got frustrated and quit. I think he thought that I was ahead of him 'cause I kept doing things right, but really, I was doing things right so god damn badly that he still had a big lead when he quit.

EDIT: Also, he may not be the new Grrrr, but fuck yeah Kiwikaki: http://day9tv.blip.tv/file/4692379/
 
BattleChicken Jr. is making it hard to play games I can't stop playing immediately lately. I'd love to play some games this weekend, though, if people might want to set some time aside to do it.
 
[quote name='HotShotX']I watched Husky's cast of that game, and HOLY fuck was it insane.

~HotShotX[/QUOTE]
you need to cast more games of me and crotch







as well as games between me and "the crotch" on starcraft 2
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']BattleChicken Jr. is making it hard to play games I can't stop playing immediately lately. I'd love to play some games this weekend, though, if people might want to set some time aside to do it.[/QUOTE]

I'm up for some games this weekend. I haven't had the chance to play with any CAGs yet but am always up for some team games. Skizye.469
 
I'll play some 1v1 games too if you guys are around my skill level (diamond). I've been playing 1v1 a lot lately, I just figured most CAGs are more casual players who prefer team games.
 
Well, "diamond" is a pretty huge area. I'm a low diamond player whose been letting his bonus pool fly up a lot lately. Kain's low diamond, Chicken's low diamond, Balphon's low diamond...

So, uh, yeah, there's a decent pile of low diamond around. There's a group of people that I sometimes play with that will do 1v1s with observers en masse from time to time, but we're severely lacking in terrans.
 
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