Struggling to Get By On 250K

[quote name='Sporadic']
Agreed but that isn't really what they are talking about. (Also, offt-opic but where did your Dad work? My Dad did the same thing for Bellsouth. I did a little bit of phone work after Katrina in New Orleans.)[/QUOTE]

True to an extent. Though I think most of them--like me--where more referring to stable, decent paying blue collar jobs as sometimes seeming better than our stressful jobs. I don't think anyone's foolish enough to envy a back breaking, crappy paying job that doesn't make ends meet as that's clearly a ton more stressful.

My dad worked for Verizon (was C&P or something like that when he first started, then Bell Atlantic I think, then Verizon bought it) in West Virginia. Worked there for 30 year (mid 20s to mid 50s).
 
[quote name='Msut77']dmaul, many of the jobs you are talking about are pretty rare and getting rarer and aren't easy to get into by any means. I personally happen not to find answering a blackberry after hours occasionally that stressful.
[/QUOTE]

For sure. But we're just talking relative stress, not availability. :D

For me a lot of the stress is being in a field where you have to be a workaholic to thrive, and not really being a workaholic. That and just the constant evaluation--peer reviews for publications, competitive grant applications (and being judged on bringing in money), teaching evaluations, annual reviews, the tenure review etc.

Plus just having to spend so much time on teaching when it counts so little in job security and career progression.

I wouldn't mind occasional after hour phone calls, paid over time etc. It's the pressure in academia to need to work nearly constantly to get ahead that grinds on a person, combined with being salaried and the wages being pretty pathetic if you make the mistake of estimating an hourly wage!
 
http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/09/24/new-rule-for-the-internets-six-figure-income-division/

It is:

1. If you make a six-figure income, you are not allowed to argue on the Internets that you are poor.

2. You are not allowed to argue that you feel poor, which as we all know is just like being poor.

3. You are not allowed to posit the argument that if you hang around with people who make more than you, then you are allowed to have your wee little heart sing the Poverty Song because, after all, you make less than all of them and your life is sad.

4. You are not allowed to use your own poor money management skills as evidence of how challenging life is for those, like you, with six-figure incomes.

5. You are not allowed to use New York City, San Francisco or Los Angeles as an excuse for your piteous cries.

6. If you do any of the above, individually or severally, when the Internets call you out for being clueless, entitled, ignorant and an embarrassment as a human being — and they will — you will not then complain how your words were misunderstood and/or taken out of context and/or that people missed the real point of your argument.

7. This rule applies equally to any defending the right of those with six-figure incomes to mewl about their awful lot in life.

Note to the Internets: This new rule is effective immediately. Please feel free to enforce it. Direct all complaints here. They will be dealt with appropriately.
 
I have to give these folks credit, it takes a lot of balls to cry about how you're getting pinched when unemployment is this high, and millions of Americans are barely hanging on financially. It takes even more to be surprised that there is a bit of backlash over it.

What, you thought we'd all agree with you? :rofl:
 
Indeed. The whining is absurd. I'm only pulling around $65K, which is a pittance compared to these jokers.

And I'd never remotely think of complaining about feeling poor because I live in a city and a lot of my friends are a lot better off than I am financially. I make a damn good salary relative to most of the country. I don't have to worry to pay bills, break my back with physical labor etc.

I'll whine about the stress. But I won't whine about the money or make some absurd argument that I'm poor and coudn't handle a 3% tax increase etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't think it's that cut and dry. Plenty of blue collar jobs are steady and pay a decent wage. Keep in mind there are skilled trades--we're not talking just crappy factory jobs and other low paying crap that make it stressful to make ends meat.

My dad worked for the phone company splicing and repairing phone lines. Hard work with all the pole climbing, being out in the weather etc. But other than occasionally getting forced over time after storms etc. it was an 8-4 job with nothing to worry/think about on nights and weekends.

Pay was pretty good--about what I make now (but over 12 months rather than 9) and in an area with much cheaper cost of living.

He's one of the most stress free people I 've ever known. Just put in his hours, and came home and enjoyed family, working in the garden etc. as the job was secure, not stressful, and paid more than enough to easily pay all the bills. And retired in his mid-50's with plenty in the bank/retirement accounts to live comfortably off. My mom only worked part time here and there.

Point being, not all blue collar folk are stressed out and worrying about paying the bills etc. There are low stress jobs out there that provide plenty of money to live comfortably on. Blue collar/=lower class. There's a large chunk of solidly middle class families with blue collar jobs.

And I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder if I'd be happier with a decent paying, lower stress job like my Dad had. Be it blue collar or white collar work.

Of course we have it much better off than anyone with an unsecure job, with low wages and not benefits that make just getting by stressful as fuck. But that's not all blue collar jobs.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='dmaul1114']True to an extent. Though I think most of them--like me--where more referring to stable, decent paying blue collar jobs as sometimes seeming better than our stressful jobs. I don't think anyone's foolish enough to envy a back breaking, crappy paying job that doesn't make ends meet as that's clearly a ton more stressful.

My dad worked for Verizon (was C&P or something like that when he first started, then Bell Atlantic I think, then Verizon bought it) in West Virginia. Worked there for 30 year (mid 20s to mid 50s).[/QUOTE]

You know what this sounds like? Your father was in a UNION. So if course he had good benefits, a decent living wage, and enough to retire on. Not that I'm knocking it, it's a good thing.

And with all the bizarro anti-union crap that's been going around for the past 30 years, now you have this:

[quote name='Msut77']dmaul, many of the jobs you are talking about are pretty rare and getting rarer and aren't easy to get into by any means.[/QUOTE]
 
Gordon Gekko: The richest one percent of this country owns half our country's wealth, five trillion dollars. One third of that comes from hard work, two thirds comes from inheritance, interest on interest accumulating to widows and idiot sons and what I do, stock and real estate speculation. It's bullshit. You got ninety percent of the American public out there with little or no net worth. I create nothing. I own. We make the rules, pal. The news, war, peace, famine, upheaval, the price per paper clip. We pick that rabbit out of the hat while everybody sits out there wondering how the hell we did it. Now you're not naive enough to think we're living in a democracy, are you buddy? It's the free market. And you're a part of it. You've got that killer instinct. Stick around pal, I've still got a lot to teach you.
Click to expand...

Scary.

Movie was a bit boring for me though. And the woman in it had a man chin.
 
[quote name='Msut77']http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/09/24/new-rule-for-the-internets-six-figure-income-division/

It is:

1. If you make a six-figure income, you are not allowed to argue on the Internets that you are poor.

2. You are not allowed to argue that you feel poor, which as we all know is just like being poor.

3. You are not allowed to posit the argument that if you hang around with people who make more than you, then you are allowed to have your wee little heart sing the Poverty Song because, after all, you make less than all of them and your life is sad.

4. You are not allowed to use your own poor money management skills as evidence of how challenging life is for those, like you, with six-figure incomes.

5. You are not allowed to use New York City, San Francisco or Los Angeles as an excuse for your piteous cries.

6. If you do any of the above, individually or severally, when the Internets call you out for being clueless, entitled, ignorant and an embarrassment as a human being — and they will — you will not then complain how your words were misunderstood and/or taken out of context and/or that people missed the real point of your argument.

7. This rule applies equally to any defending the right of those with six-figure incomes to mewl about their awful lot in life.

Note to the Internets: This new rule is effective immediately. Please feel free to enforce it. Direct all complaints here. They will be dealt with appropriately.[/QUOTE]

Excellent.
 
[quote name='dohdough']You know what this sounds like? Your father was in a UNION. So if course he had good benefits, a decent living wage, and enough to retire on. Not that I'm knocking it, it's a good thing.

And with all the bizarro anti-union crap that's been going around for the past 30 years, now you have this:[/QUOTE]

Yep it was a union job. And I'm 100% a pro union person.
 
I am the person featured in this thread. |:

I would like to let all you haters know, I have had to fire the guy that used to wash my dick, I hope that you and the government are happy now!!!
 
Ummm I'm far from conservative. Fiscally maybe, but that's where it stops. I was just saying that your utopian scenario of Trader Joe's only works when you have a business model that targets those who have tons of expendable income and not much in the way of knowledge about value.

I was able to make $40k a year at an *American* car dealership (the ones that almost went belly up to give you an idea of how little profit they make to be able to pay salaries) sitting in a chair sending generic e-mail scripts to customers who "might" want to buy a car from us. Meanwhile my mother makes almost 1/3 of that doing backbreaking manual labor.

If we're truly being fair, I would be the one making shit pay. That's why I say that someone doing unskilled grunt work at a Trader Joe's making between $40k to $60k is generous and can only be afforded by people who spend their money there out of a need for status.

It's kinda like the whole pro-Target/anti-WalMart crowd when they don't realize that they treat their employees BETTER at WalMart and the goods are almost always cheaper. Yet because of the popular sentiment, they think Target is some sort of bastion of civil rights.
 
[quote name='davo1224']That's why I say that someone doing unskilled grunt work at a Trader Joe's making between $40k to $60k is generous and can only be afforded by people who spend their money there out of a need for status.[/QUOTE]

redovalbeer2.jpg


Status. I has it.

[quote name='davo1224']It's kinda like the whole pro-Target/anti-WalMart crowd when they don't realize that they treat their employees BETTER at WalMart and the goods are almost always cheaper. Yet because of the popular sentiment, they think Target is some sort of bastion of civil rights.[/QUOTE]

Who thinks that? If I 'm forced to choose, I'd goto Target because it's clean, the goods are better quality, and I don't have to wait half-an-hour to checkout. Nothing to do with how they treat their workers.

BTW "bastion of civil rights" doesn't mean what you think it means.
 
[quote name='davo1224']Ummm I'm far from conservative. Fiscally maybe, but that's where it stops. I was just saying that your utopian scenario of Trader Joe's only works when you have a business model that targets those who have tons of expendable income and not much in the way of knowledge about value.
[/QUOTE]

Where are you getting this notion that trader joes is expensive though? A lot of things like produce and some meats etc. are cheaper there than they are are the local Kroger/Publix/Giant/Food lion etc.

The organic stuff is cheaper than the equivalent products at those stores as well for the most part.

Whole Foods Market is the one where everything is very expensive relative to other grocery stores. Fresh Market is pretty pricey as well. Trader joes has some stuff over priced, but for the most part it's as cheap or cheaper than the chain grocery stores since they carry a lot of generic and off brand stuff.

[quote name='camoor']
Who thinks that? If I 'm forced to choose, I'd goto Target because it's clean, the goods are better quality, and I don't have to wait half-an-hour to checkout. Nothing to do with how they treat their workers.
[/QUOTE]

Same, I know most retail stores treat employees crappy in terms of pay, benefits etc.

I choose where to shop based on convenience. I want clean stores, with decent customer service, shorter lines, that keep things in stock etc. etc.
 
Indeed!

I seldom shop there as it's just too pricey. I'll go every once in a while for steaks or fish as they're meat department kicks ass. Costs an arm an a leg, but just much better quality than the grocery stores.

The fruit and veggies are usually better as well--a lot fresher, but just not worth the price.

I go to Trader Joes more often as the produce is better than the grocery chains and often cheaper or the same price, and they have a lot of good frozen seafood for pretty cheap (cheaper than the non-frozen fish at the grocery stores and taste is just as good IMO).
 
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Yeah, that's a new one for me. In MD the counties near me didn't allow alcohol in grocery stores, so no beer and wine at whole foods.

The ones here in Atlanta have it though. I don't buy there often though since I'm not big into wine and the closest Whole Foods happens to be across the street from a great liquor store with a much better beer selection and lower prices. The Trader Joes closest has a pretty poor beer selection so I usually don't bother with it.
 
Why discuss when we can just slap a labels on people and use ourselves as proof that popular opinion doesn't exist?

And by-the-by, if you're thinking I meant bastion instead of say, champion, I didn't.
 
[quote name='davo1224']Why discuss when we can just slap a labels on people and use ourselves as proof that popular opinion doesn't exist?

And by-the-by, if you're thinking I meant bastion instead of say, champion, I didn't.[/QUOTE]

What the fuck are you talking about
 
Reminds me of an article I read a year or two ago where this Lawyer and his Doctor wife were complaining about how they were under like $200,000 worth of student loans or something like that. Meanwhile the two of them were making like $300,000+ a year. I can not recall the exact amounts, but I can recall him whining that he could not pay off the incredible student loan debt....yet he made in a year well past what his student loan debt was.

The problem is two fold. First off Americans in general, rich and poor alike, do not want to sacrifice. Everyone feels that the other person should pay. Second off Americans, rich and poor alike, have no fucking clue how to spend money anymore. If that guy would have been willing to sacrafice for just ONE year....just one fucking year, then he could have gotten out from under debt. If you make $300,000 a year and your student loan is $200,000 then the math leaves $100,000 on the table. So common sense says there is no reason you can not just pay off your student loans and have enough to live VERY comfortably on for a year. Id wage everything I have in my bank acount though that they felt that just because they are making $300k they need to live like every other idiot making that amount. They ran out and bought a half a million dollar house a new car, took a nice vacation etc etc. Then at the end of the year when they are paying more on their mortgage in a month then I do in 5 years, began complaining about student loans holding them back and making them poor.

It is just hilarious and sad at the same time. As I said while the rich whining about being poor are the worst, those of us that are truly poor are just as bad. As some of you know until just the last year I was collecting SSI for disabilty. Anytime I had to go to the state offices for interviews for renewing benefits or for personal reasons there were always people sitting and waiting while texting on a $300 phone. People who are poor are the exact same, they live above their means and then love to complain that they are late on the rent because of rich people soaking up all the money. My brother has no health insurance because "he can not afford it" , but that did not stop him from buying a motorcycle and running out and crashing it 3 or 4 times at which point he had to go to the hospital and bitched that he did not qualify for income assistance.

I could give millions of examples like this just from family and friends of my family. I am posting this because while the examples of rich people whining, especially right now, are incredibly infuriating, it seems people at this board often forget that liberals are ALMOST as bad. We love to portray a poor struggling middle class, but truth is that while the rich are taking far more then a fair share, and while policies currently are hurting the middle class, truth is the middle class is hurting itself just as much if not more by feeling each and every member of the family needs their own car and HDTV. It is not just the rich that have forgot how to sacrifice or what being "poor" truly is.
 
[quote name='mykevermin'](on that note, fuck you, Pennsylvania liquor laws - TJ's here can't carry Two Buck Chuck).[/QUOTE]

Hey now! You guys have Drive-Thru liquor stores! It's a fair trade, IMO. Plus, Two Buck Chuck in NJ is actually Three Buck Chuck. Boo!!!
 
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