Struggling to Get By On 250K

Well, then, if legality is the threshold used to determine whether or not we can complain about something, I expect you to immediately rescind all of your comments about teacher pay.

Also, :rofl: at the idea of 180 working days a year.

R-O-fucking-L.

My point stands: I summarized your arguments and can cite your words to defend them. You can't, and haven't, done the same for me.

Also, of course you're from New Jersey. That reminds me: how can you tell if someone from New Jersey is mentally handicapped? The license plate on their car says "Garden State."
 
I think it's funny that the rich convince people much less affluent than them that their taxes are somehow a bad things for those breaking their backs to give them their third car and Hawaiian vacations. You people know the game is rigged and you'll never be in their situation, right? That they've effectively sealed you from ever being in their positions, and their pandering to you is nothing but bullshit designed to manipulate your emotions?

Do the sheer facts of CEO salaries and this generation making less money than their fathers and the widening gap between the rich and poor simply run through your heads like melted butter?
 
[quote name='Strell']I think it's funny that the rich convince people much less affluent than them that their taxes are somehow a bad things for those breaking their backs to give them their third car and Hawaiian vacations. You people know the game is rigged and you'll never be in their situation, right? That they've effectively sealed you from ever being in their positions, and their pandering to you is nothing but bullshit designed to manipulate your emotions?
[/QUOTE]

That's correct; the system is rigged. But who are the truly rich people? Let me tell you, it's not the guys making 200-250K per year.

On a percentage basis, if you make $200K taxable, you are essentially in the same tax bracket as someone who makes a few million (33% vs. 35%). Hell, with my tiny salary, I'm already in the 25% tax bracket! The big guys can afford these rates... but if you are paying this at $200K, while paying a mortgage, various other taxes and fees, and trying to send your kids to school, it just makes it that harder to advance in station.

If you want to go after someone, go after the Goldman Sachs and Lehman Brothers, et al. crooks. Tax the guys making millions at 50%. Tax the so-called "non-profit" and "religious organizations." Stop bailing out the "too big to fails." Stop the quid pro quo of government bribes (oh, I meant campaign contributions...).

Oh, and with all of this, tell the Fed to stop printing copious amounts of money...
 
[quote name='Strell']I think it's funny that the rich convince people much less affluent than them that their taxes are somehow a bad things for those breaking their backs to give them their third car and Hawaiian vacations. You people know the game is rigged and you'll never be in their situation, right? That they've effectively sealed you from ever being in their positions, and their pandering to you is nothing but bullshit designed to manipulate your emotions?

Do the sheer facts of CEO salaries and this generation making less money than their fathers and the widening gap between the rich and poor simply run through your heads like melted butter?[/QUOTE]

Are you still arguing that being rich is an inalienable right? Not everyone is going to make $250K a year, but you know what? That has nothing to do with some ceo making millions. Has there ever been a time where the majority of the country made $250,000 a year? Again I would like to point out that if we divided the CEO's ENTIRE salaries (let alone 4 more percent) up among all of a companies workers, I'm willing to bet that the workers still won't be making $250K a year. Pick a company any company, and do the math.

May I ask how these "rich" people are preventing me from going to school, getting a job, getting the training I need, getting a promotion?

Let me reword it, what are these "rich" people taking away that they enjoyed to help them become wealthy?
 
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[quote name='camoor']Oh no, they'd never get yelled at, according to JaveryH they're having a blast all day. Just listen to tunes, mop the floor a little, and go home at 5 on. the. dot.

It's so fun and easy, not like JaveryH's job - why sometimes he even gets asked to work a little overtime by his boss. Those lucky minimum wagers, they have it so good we should just raise their taxes instead.[/QUOTE]

No, I mean they get laid off, benefits cut, fired only to be offered to be rehired at lower pay, hours cut, and generally treated like pawns instead of human beings.
 
[quote name='BigT']On a percentage basis, if you make $200K taxable, you are essentially in the same tax bracket as someone who makes a few million (33% vs. 35%). Hell, with my tiny salary, I'm already in the 25% tax bracket! The big guys can afford these rates... but if you are paying this at $200K, while paying a mortgage, various other taxes and fees, and trying to send your kids to school, it just makes it that harder to advance in station.[/QUOTE]
The $200k taxable point is kind of bullshit though. Someone making $200k taxable is probably making closer to $300-$350k. The guy in the article says he pays about $100k in federal taxes, which would put his taxable income at $375k or so, but then he goes on to list a metric ass load of deductible expenses.

That's the problem with this dude and most like him. The Bobs and Knoells shit on the poor for trying to cheat by trading $10 in food stamps for some purple drank, but they don't see what the rich do because they don't see the rich. Rich Americans are the real entitlement queens. Their taxes haven't been lower since humans harnessed steam power, we just finished a decade in which the poor financed the biggest transfer of wealth in our history via the Bush tax cuts, and their investments (as well as just about every financier job on the planet) were just saved by massive government intervention.

And they complain.

Back to the guy in the story, a perfect example. He's either lying about his income by at least $100k, or he's lying about the amount he pays in taxes. We might chalk it up to a mistake or misunderstanding, but the guy is a frigging U of C prof.

You're right. A quarter mil isn't ultra rich. But right now, they sure as shit aren't part of the solution politically.
 
[quote name='BigT']
On a percentage basis, if you make $200K taxable, you are essentially in the same tax bracket as someone who makes a few million (33% vs. 35%). Hell, with my tiny salary, I'm already in the 25% tax bracket! The big guys can afford these rates... but if you are paying this at $200K, while paying a mortgage, various other taxes and fees, and trying to send your kids to school, it just makes it that harder to advance in station.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, there needs to be a lot more tax brackets for higher incomes. The 35% bracket is too large and covers too many income levels. Through some in there at 500K, 750K, 1 million, 1.5 million, etc. to get up to a higher cap for top brackets.
 
[quote name='jputahraptor']CEO's pay is legal, bitching about it being unfair does not make it illegal so get over it.[/QUOTE]

I think we need to start small with you. Big words aren't getting through to that noggin.

Legal =/= Just.
 
[quote name='camoor']I think we need to start small with you. Big words aren't getting through to that noggin.

Legal =/= Just.[/QUOTE]
Yes it does, and everything that is illegal is wrong to do also. /herp
 
[quote name='camoor']Oh no, they'd never get yelled at, according to JaveryH they're having a blast all day. Just listen to tunes, mop the floor a little, and go home at 5 on. the. dot.

It's so fun and easy, not like JaveryH's job - why sometimes he even gets asked to work a little overtime by his boss. Those lucky minimum wagers, they have it so good we should just raise their taxes instead.[/QUOTE]

C'mon. Really? All I said was that there are many days at work where I'd rather be mindlessly mopping the floor with my headphones on instead of sitting at my desk. Way to spin it.
 
[quote name='camoor']I think we need to start small with you. Big words aren't getting through to that noggin.

Legal =/= Just.[/QUOTE]

how much do you think mopping a floor should pay?
 
[quote name='javeryh']C'mon. Really? All I said was that there are many days at work where I'd rather be mindlessly mopping the floor with my headphones on instead of sitting at my desk. Way to spin it.[/QUOTE]

I'm going to assume you've worked retail before so you know very well that you never just mindlessly complete one task unless you're handicapped. Most of the time you are mopping the floors, ringing customers, stocking shelves and preparing to close.

Keep this thread going, it's pure gold.
 
[quote name='javeryh']C'mon. Really? All I said was that there are many days at work where I'd rather be mindlessly mopping the floor with my headphones on instead of sitting at my desk. Way to spin it.[/QUOTE]

Your lawyer tricks won't work on me. We all know what you meant in the context of the conversation, don't try and wiggle out of it now.
 
[quote name='camoor']A fair wage with benefits. Really depends on where you are.[/QUOTE]

what is a fair wage with benefits?
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I'm going to assume you've worked retail before so you know very well that you never just mindlessly complete one task unless you're handicapped. Most of the time you are mopping the floors, ringing customers, stocking shelves and preparing to close.[/QUOTE]

Sorry. I should have said some days I'd rather be doing 3 or 4 mindless tasks instead of sitting at my desk - and yes I've worked at retail before (it sucks but let's not pretend you have to actually use your brain).
 
[quote name='camoor']Your lawyer tricks won't work on me. We all know what you meant in the context of the conversation, don't try and wiggle out of it now.[/QUOTE]

Everyone could just be like me and get a decent paying white collar job with bennies that lets you listen to headphones at your desk.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Everyone could just be like me and get a decent paying white collar job with bennies that lets you listen to headphones at your desk.[/QUOTE]

I have just that. Outside of teaching, most of the time I'm at my desk (home or office) working and listening to music.

But it's still stressful as hell at times with the publish or perish nature of academia, dealing with student bullshit, crap service work etc.

So I can see Javeryh's point as I do have days that I'd rather be sweating in the saw mill, or doing crap retail work as at least back then it was a max of 8 hours to suffer through with no thinking/worrying about work when I clocked out.

I wouldn't make the switch back to that kind of career by any means as I usually enjoy my work, and like the salary and benefits. But there's no denying the stress and long hours (when you're salaried) suck at times.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I have just that. Outside of teaching, most of the time I'm at my desk (home or office) working and listening to music.

But it's still stressful as hell at times with the publish or perish nature of academia, dealing with student bullshit, crap service work etc.

So I can see Javeryh's point as I do have days that I'd rather be sweating in the saw mill, or doing crap retail work as at least back then it was a max of 8 hours to suffer through with no thinking/worrying about work when I clocked out.

I wouldn't make the switch back to that kind of career by any means as I usually enjoy my work, and like the salary and benefits. But there's no denying the stress and long hours (when you're salaried) suck at times.[/QUOTE]

Don't know man, either the grass is always greener doesn't apply to me or my former retail job was just that crappy but I don't miss it one second.

My job also doesn't expect *much* more than 40 hours out of me anyway and even then usually only when it is crunch time.
 
Like I said, I wouldn't go back to those days. Just at the most stressful days I miss having a stress free job/life!

But I don't think most blue collar jobs are like academia or a law firm job like Javeryh's in terms of expectations, stress, long hours with no extra pay etc. Having to land grants to pay your 3 month salary over the summer as we're on 9 month contracts etc.

But it's just a trade off. Academic jobs offer a ton of flexibility in what you work out, when you put in your long hours etc. that you don't get in other careers. But your also constantly being evaluated which makes it very stressful--especially before tenure. Though I know many full professors who are much busier and more stressed out than me! But also plenty who slack off and don't give a crap after getting to full.
 
[quote name='Knoell']what is a fair wage with benefits?[/QUOTE]

A fair wage would be calculating your benefit to the corporation and paying you accordingly.

A living wage is one where you can afford to rent a reasonable place, a reasonable car, food, utilities, and medical care. It would be setting up a situation where the average blue collar guy wouldn't have to constantly worry about bills or getting wiped out by a medical emergency.

We should pay a fair wage, but the very least we can do as decent human beings is pay a living wage.

If the business plan is sound, paying a fair wage works for everyone. Happy, healthy employees are productive employees. I can point to Trader Joes - an excellent supermarket in my neck of the woods:

Trader Joe's pays above-union wages: as of 2010, full-time crew members starting at $40–60,000 per year and store managers earning in the "low six figures." It contributes an additional 15.4% of each worker's gross pay into a company-funded retirement plan. As of 2004, pay for entry-level part-timers was $8 to $10 an hour.
Trader Joe's also offers health insurance benefits (dental, vision, and medical) to part-time employees and their dependents. Part-time employees must work 900 hours per year (an average of 20 hours per week) and be employed for a minimum of three months consecutively to qualify. All part-time employees are evaluated every six months with the possibility of a pay increase. They also receive a 10 percent discount on items bought at the store.
...
In February 2008, Businessweek reported that the company has the highest sales per square foot of any grocer in the U.S.; two-and-a-half years later, Fortune magazine estimated sales to be $1,750 in merchandise per square foot, more than double the sales generated by Whole Foods.
Click to expand...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trader_Joe's
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I have just that. Outside of teaching, most of the time I'm at my desk (home or office) working and listening to music.

But it's still stressful as hell at times with the publish or perish nature of academia, dealing with student bullshit, crap service work etc.

So I can see Javeryh's point as I do have days that I'd rather be sweating in the saw mill, or doing crap retail work as at least back then it was a max of 8 hours to suffer through with no thinking/worrying about work when I clocked out.

I wouldn't make the switch back to that kind of career by any means as I usually enjoy my work, and like the salary and benefits. But there's no denying the stress and long hours (when you're salaried) suck at times.[/QUOTE]

This is exactly what I was trying to say.
 
[quote name='camoor']Trader Joe's...[/QUOTE]

Trader Joe's is also a hipster store. I was always amazed in college when people would praise it for being so low priced when it's on par with high-priced supermarkets.

Paying someone who works there between $40k-$60k isn't fair either. That's being too generous.
 
[quote name='davo1224']Paying someone who works there between $40k-$60k isn't fair either. That's being too generous.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. fuck those people. They should be serfs of Trader Joe's. How dare that hipster company try to take care of their employees. Don't they know that they are a business? In case you don't know, you pseudo-pinko-intellectuals, that means you make as much money as possible at the expense of everybody else.

I wonder what their shareholders have to say about that gross misuse of funds? I mean health care, for mindless labor grunts?!? :shame:
 
[quote name='javeryh']This is exactly what I was trying to say.[/QUOTE]

So, kind of like how people wish they were kids again? Where you go "man, I wish I didn't have to work anymore and I could just hang out with my friends all day in the woods" but you forget all of the bad stuff like having no choices, getting "punished" when you said you didn't want to do something, being bored out of your mind with nothing to do besides walk around outside or play the one video game your parents bought you for the 50th time, wanting to do stuff but being unable to do it, etc, etc.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Exactly. fuck those people. They should be serfs of Trader Joe's. How dare that hipster company try to take care of their employees. Don't they know that they are a business? In case you don't know, you pseudo-pinko-intellectuals, that means you make as much money as possible at the expense of everybody else.

I wonder what their shareholders have to say about that gross misuse of funds? I mean health care, for mindless labor grunts?!? :shame:[/QUOTE]

People say the same thing about Costco being "too generous", hasn't really hurt them any.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']Exactly. fuck those people. They should be serfs of Trader Joe's. How dare that hipster company try to take care of their employees. Don't they know that they are a business? In case you don't know, you pseudo-pinko-intellectuals, that means you make as much money as possible at the expense of everybody else.

I wonder what their shareholders have to say about that gross misuse of funds? I mean health care, for mindless labor grunts?!? :shame:[/QUOTE]
$8 to $10 dollars an hour is not any better than what walmart pays. Or are we not talking about the guy mopping the floor anymore?

Also, what area is trader joes in?
 
[quote name='davo1224']Trader Joe's is also a hipster store. I was always amazed in college when people would praise it for being so low priced when it's on par with high-priced supermarkets.

Paying someone who works there between $40k-$60k isn't fair either. That's being too generous.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Knoell']$8 to $10 dollars an hour is not any better than what walmart pays. Or are we not talking about the guy mopping the floor anymore?

Also, what area is trader joes in?[/QUOTE]

This is the problem, most of the conservatives on this board just make stuff up.

Here we have an interesting case of the fabrication going too ways - one conservative says that Trader Joes is too generous, the other says they treat employees just like Walmart. It's like a Republican choose-your-own-adventure.
 
[quote name='camoor']This is the problem, most of the conservatives on this board just make stuff up.

Here we have an interesting case of the fabrication going too ways - one conservative says that Trader Joes is too generous, the other says they treat employees just like Walmart. It's like a Republican choose-your-own-adventure.[/QUOTE]

they pay part timers $8 to $10 dollars, under your ideals shouldn't they be paid more?

And quit arguing points I didn't make. I didn't say wal-mart treated them the same, I said Wal-mart pays that amount. It is like a "choose-what-I-think-they-really-meant-adventure" :roll:

Furthermore I just looked up these $40 to $60K salaries you, or wikipedia claim they pay because I was wondering how a grocery story can pay that much.

Here's what I found. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Trader-Joe-s-Salaries-E5631.htm

Its like a make-up-your-own-facts-adventure. While they pay upper management quite well, you guys should be furious about what they pay the box boy. I think they still pay everyone great though, and good for them for doing it that way.
 
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[quote name='Knoell']they pay part timers $8 to $10 dollars, under your ideals shouldn't they be paid more?

And quit arguing points I didn't make. I didn't say wal-mart treated them the same, I said Wal-mart pays that amount. It is like a "choose-what-I-think-they-really-meant-adventure" :roll:

Furthermore I just looked up these $40 to $60K salaries you, or wikipedia claim they pay because I was wondering how a grocery story can pay that much.

Here's what I found. http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Trader-Joe-s-Salaries-E5631.htm

Its like a make-up-your-own-facts-adventure. While they pay upper management quite well, you guys should be furious about what they pay the box boy. I think they still pay everyone great though, and good for them for doing it that way.[/QUOTE]

So what - since I think workers should be treated fairly, you think I'm some kind of Che-loving Marxist who isn't going to be happy until we're all singing hymns to the centralized planning system? No, I just happen to be a capitalist with a heart.

I'm not saying the company is perfect (no company is). However if all companies treated their low-level employees like Trader Joes, America would be a better place.

It's true I don't know what percentage of part-timers they have on the payroll, and after looking at your pathetic site I still don't know. Glass door is a site where anonymous posters can post anything, you have a sampling of ~50 posters. Yet you treat it as verified fact. Is that really the best you can do?
 
[quote name='camoor']So what - since I think workers should be treated fairly, you think I'm some kind of Che-loving Marxist who isn't going to be happy until we're all singing hymns to the centralized planning system? No, I just happen to be a capitalist with a heart.

I'm not saying the company is perfect (no company is). However if all companies treated their low-level employees like Trader Joes, America would be a better place.

It's true I don't know what percentage of part-timers they have on the payroll, and after looking at your pathetic site I still don't know. Glass door is a site where anonymous posters can post anything, you have a sampling of ~50 posters. Yet you treat it as verified fact. Is that really the best you can do?[/QUOTE]

Is wikipedia the best you can do? At least I have actual salaries, which if people lied, I would bet they would put their's on the high end. My job at my work is actually on there and it is accurate.

Here is a few more, not to mention the numbers on these sites fall in line much better with average retail salaries than $40-$60K

http://www.careerbliss.com/salary/manager-at-trader-joes-salaries-331729/
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Trader__Joe's_Company/Hourly_Rate/by_Job

Here is where you are again trying to prove a point I am not making. I am not stating that "Trader Joes" is a bad place to work, or that they overpay their workers. I was stating a fact that $8-$10 dollars is what Wal-Mart pays, which you guys consider garbarge, and also that low level employee's at "Trader Joes" do not start at $40,000, and certainly don't make it to $60,000. Maybe if you include benefits.

Still it seems like a great place to work, there is no denying that.
 
People are talking about Trader Joe's like it's Whole Foods Market.

It's not a discount store like Aldo or something, but it's more or less mostly generic organic food and is a hell of a lot cheaper than Whole Food's.

They aren't always in nice areas either. The closest one to me in Atlanta is just in a so-so area in-between a middle class residential area in one direction, and straight up ghetto area a little in the other direction. The one where I lived in the DC area was similarly located. They're not stuck in upper class neighborhoods as I doubt that clientele is big on buying generic food on average.
 
I think minimum wage should vary based on how much your company makes in gross revenue. If you are a multinational company posting billions in profits you shouldn't be paying your customer service reps 7.25 per hour with no benefits. If you're a struggling small business you have less leeway so it should be a lower and less constricting requirement. This would also foster competition and even the playing field for small businesses which conservatives claim to love.
 
That's one option, though to me it makes more sense to tie it to cost of living.

A lot of states/counties take care of it by having higher than federal mimimum wages since there COLA is high, but many don't.
 
Yeah minimum wage law is ridiculous because the government has to carry the costs through food stamps and public housing. Public housing ties into high crime rates which leads to more costs.

As a nation we shift costs from corporations to the government which in turn fall on the people the government is supposed to be helping. I think restricting large corporations would not only strengthen local business and the economy, but also help the environment and general happiness our citizens.

We need:

1. Single payer healthcare (you can still go to an expensive doctor if you're rich, I never understood the problem people had with this).
2. Higher minimum wage... just because goods from China and other slave nations are cheap doesn't mean 7.25 is worth as much as 7.25 in 2000.
3. More restrictions on huge corporations (how do we expect mom and pops to compete with stores that manufacture their own goods in Chinese factories?).

Increasing minimum wage will cut spending on government support programs. Public health care will bring costs down because their is no profiteering. Restricting companies will increase revenue and bring more manufacturing back to the U.S. (we just need to make sure it's clean somehow).
 
I'm just wondering... I see all of these posts. I just wanted to know if someone took the time to call in the Whhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-bulance!? Luxuries like private school and housekeeping/yardwork = unnecessary. If you have time to write an article or letter or whatever it is, you have time to start a mower and go. I'm guessing he's paying for 2 brand new high end cars. I'm sure they aren't used Kias. Switching to a less luxurious car, public schools, and doing your own labor would result in THOUSANDS of savings every year. We're talking 2nd mortgage savings.

What a baby. America IS expensive. It's also one of the few places you can live the life you do and still feel entitled enough to bitch about it. You invite Obama to look at your budget. Then let lower middle-class families invite you to look at theirs. Then you can apologize for wasting Obama's time.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']People are talking about Trader Joe's like it's Whole Foods Market.

It's not a discount store like Aldo or something, but it's more or less mostly generic organic food and is a hell of a lot cheaper than Whole Food's.

They aren't always in nice areas either. The closest one to me in Atlanta is just in a so-so area in-between a middle class residential area in one direction, and straight up ghetto area a little in the other direction. The one where I lived in the DC area was similarly located. They're not stuck in upper class neighborhoods as I doubt that clientele is big on buying generic food on average.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I see all types there - I have no idea what that one guy means about a "hipster store". Maybe he's thinking of Whole Foods.
 
[quote name='camoor']Yeah I see all types there - I have no idea what that one guy means about a "hipster store". Maybe he's thinking of Whole Foods.[/QUOTE]

It's just the typical dig at people who buy organic food etc. Basically a jab in line with Palin's complaints about "latte sipping elitists" etc.

Though I will say the Trader Joe's around my last to locations were in parts of town that had lots of young professionals etc.--so lots of Prius drivers etc. So I guess that's part of the "hipster" thing I suppose.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']So I can see Javeryh's point as I do have days that I'd rather be sweating in the saw mill, or doing crap retail work as at least back then it was a max of 8 hours to suffer through with no thinking/worrying about work when I clocked out.[/QUOTE]

This.
 
There is always someone making more than you who struggles with money and someone making less than you who lives just fine.
Most of America could get by spending $13000/yr on housing/utilities, $6000/yr on food, $2000/yr insurance, $2000 day-day-supplies and $7,000 transportation, so say $30,000 after taxes. And that would be a nice home, and the food, especially if you cooked meals at home, would be high quality.
So a $45K job in most areas for a single person are going to be enough, more than enough really. If you want an iphone, or hbo, expensive vacations or a bmw, you have to make choices and sacrifices. And people often lead happy, fulfilling lives making less than $45k and making different choices.

But the thing is, while luxury goods can sometimes be of dubious quality, in most cases, the value is there because you are getting a superior product. And superior products are deservedly expensive. They require more time, higher input costs, increased labor, better employees and so on. If I am a furniture maker, and I am good at my craft, make a great product that lasts a long time and offer excellent customer service, Hancock & Moore, for example, I should be charging $3000+ for a couch. Now if you are making $45k, that high level of good is usually going to be out of your price range. You will be more inclined to shop at ikea, or a thrift store or take a chance on an internet furniture company. Any of those options will certainly get you a couch upon which you can sit. And certainly nobody needs a $3000+ couch. But then what are you saying on the supply side?

Should no one be making nice things? Should a furniture maker not be making the best possible piece of furniture and providing excellent customer service? Certainly those in the upper income need to make sacrifices, but luxury goods do not imply garbage, just with a higher pricetag.
Is the cutoff $250k? Is there a cutoff? Maybe that isn't the issue, but it is disheartening to see people attacked if they want to buy nice things. Because those nice things, when they are well made, produced by competent people, and built to last, deserve to be purchased. There should never be a stigma attached to quality goods.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']This.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='Sporadic']So, kind of like how people wish they were kids again? Where you go "man, I wish I didn't have to work anymore and I could just hang out with my friends all day in the woods" but you forget all of the bad stuff like having no choices, getting "punished" when you said you didn't want to do something, being bored out of your mind with nothing to do besides walk around outside or play the one video game your parents bought you for the 50th time, wanting to do stuff but being unable to do it, etc, etc.[/QUOTE]

This?
 
Like I said, I wouldn't go back to those old crappy jobs as I remember all the negatives.

Just that there are definitely days that I wish I had a low stress, 9-5 job that wasn't on my mind nights and weekends (and never had to work nights and weekends). But at the end of the day I'll keep my flexibility, salary, benefits and not having to break my back with physical labor (or put up with idiot customers), so I'd never really go back to those days. But it was nice in say summers during college of just working part time and going home and truly having nothing that needed done. Unlike now where there's always papers to be written, data to be cleaned an analyzed, class lectures to prepare for, assignments to grade etc.

That said, there are decent paying, white collar jobs that fit that bill--so those are the type I more contemplate switching to. i.e. getting a job in a research wing in a government agency etc. They pay more to boot! But for now I'll stick with it for the flexibility of my work, and knowledge that it's gradually getting easier.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']This?[/QUOTE]

No.

Just that it is understandable to wish you had an 8 hour day where you punch out and that is it. A set schedule. Salaried people often don't have that whether it is a retail manager, a lawyer, a member of the armed services, a or a public school teacher, or a college professor. Regardless of salary or political points of view, hours worked in the US annually are some of the highest in the world.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']So, kind of like how people wish they were kids again? Where you go "man, I wish I didn't have to work anymore and I could just hang out with my friends all day in the woods" but you forget all of the bad stuff like having no choices, getting "punished" when you said you didn't want to do something, being bored out of your mind with nothing to do besides walk around outside or play the one video game your parents bought you for the 50th time, wanting to do stuff but being unable to do it, etc, etc.[/QUOTE]

No. It's more like it would be nice to be able to have one goddamn day in my life where I didn't have to think about or stress over work. It would be nice to not always reachable by blackberry/iphone and it would be especially nice to not be expected to respond with 20 minutes no matter the time of day or night and no matter if it is the weekend or if I'm on vacation or if it is Christmas morning. It would be nice to not wake up to angry emails that were sent in the middle of the night because I didn't respond right away. It never ends. All I was saying and dmaul and Guile were agreeing with (I think) is that instead of the stress all the time it might be nice once in a while to work for 8 hours (with a lunch break!) and go home and not think about anything.

Now, I know what I signed up for and it has allowed me to live a very comfortable life so far (other than the fact I'm probably shaving years off of my life from the stress) so no real regrets (yet) but it's still nice to think about other ways of life every now and then.
 
arguing that you have more stress - period - or more work-related stress compared to blue collar folks is preposterous.

the natural end of things here is resources - money. yes, perhaps you love what you do more than the honey dippers who rinse out port-o-shitters; I love what I do and I don't make shit.

But I'd argue the stress is the ability to retain and make money (and make more money) in said job. I don't have performance-related stress precisely because it's what I chose to do for a living. I like what I do for a living; but I stress out over being able to pay the bills every month, not work. In terms of the things I afford that I could live without (internet, netflix...probably something else), I can't help but think that living the life of someone on an hourly wage, where I'm more prone to being stressed out over something like affording groceries and paying my electric bill than I am now, it is most certainly not a less stressful existence.
 
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[quote name='javeryh']No. It's more like it would be nice to be able to have one goddamn day in my life where I didn't have to think about or stress over work. It would be nice to not always reachable by blackberry/iphone and it would be especially nice to not be expected to respond with 20 minutes no matter the time of day or night and no matter if it is the weekend or if I'm on vacation or if it is Christmas morning. It would be nice to not wake up to angry emails that were sent in the middle of the night because I didn't respond right away. It never ends. All I was saying and dmaul and Guile were agreeing with (I think) is that instead of the stress all the time it might be nice once in a while to work for 8 hours (with a lunch break!) and go home and not think about anything.
[/QUOTE]

That is what I am agreeing with.

The turnover at my place of employment is high because of the insane hours and workload. The reason I stick with it because the area I live in has the highest unemployment in the state of Virginia. Unless you are an RN is extremely difficult to find work here. I'm saving up to move for just this reason.


Myke, I can't speak for javeryh, but I have been blue-collar and white so I can speak from experience. I have worked in two factories. One was Pluma Textiles and the other Springs at the end of an assembly line both doing grunt work. I know everyone is different, but only my retail management job I have now has stressed me enough to make me want to hurt myself. I don't bottle up the stress as much anymore though and try to open up to friends and family about it. Do other people have it worse? Sure. But it is unfair to dismiss a person's personal experiences like that. I wouldn't dare judge you as a professor for example because I have never been one and I know you had to have had a lot of stress and work your ass off to get to where you are today.

Truth be told, I should follow my own advice and never have commented at all about the people in the OP.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']arguing that you have more stress - period - or more work-related stress compared to blue collar folks is preposterous.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's that cut and dry. Plenty of blue collar jobs are steady and pay a decent wage. Keep in mind there are skilled trades--we're not talking just crappy factory jobs and other low paying crap that make it stressful to make ends meat.

My dad worked for the phone company splicing and repairing phone lines. Hard work with all the pole climbing, being out in the weather etc. But other than occasionally getting forced over time after storms etc. it was an 8-4 job with nothing to worry/think about on nights and weekends.

Pay was pretty good--about what I make now (but over 12 months rather than 9) and in an area with much cheaper cost of living.

He's one of the most stress free people I 've ever known. Just put in his hours, and came home and enjoyed family, working in the garden etc. as the job was secure, not stressful, and paid more than enough to easily pay all the bills. And retired in his mid-50's with plenty in the bank/retirement accounts to live comfortably off. My mom only worked part time here and there.

Point being, not all blue collar folk are stressed out and worrying about paying the bills etc. There are low stress jobs out there that provide plenty of money to live comfortably on. Blue collar/=lower class. There's a large chunk of solidly middle class families with blue collar jobs.

And I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder if I'd be happier with a decent paying, lower stress job like my Dad had. Be it blue collar or white collar work.

Of course we have it much better off than anyone with an unsecure job, with low wages and not benefits that make just getting by stressful as fuck. But that's not all blue collar jobs.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Like I said, I wouldn't go back to those old crappy jobs as I remember all the negatives.[/QUOTE]

I know, that wasn't directed at you but at the people quoting sections of your posts. Where they are only remembering the good things while ignoring/forgetting about the bad things.

The aftermath of working that physical job where you come home and your body is killing you, the money worries, the possibility of having to get another mindless shitty job on top of your current one to make ends meet, living in a shitty apartment/area.

[quote name='dmaul1114']My dad worked for the phone company splicing and repairing phone lines. Hard work with all the pole climbing, being out in the weather etc. But other than occasionally getting forced over time after storms etc. it was an 8-4 job with nothing to worry/think about on nights and weekends.

Pay was pretty good--about what I make now (but over 12 months rather than 9) and in an area with much cheaper cost of living.

He's one of the most stress free people I 've ever known. Just put in his hours, and came home and enjoyed family, working in the garden etc. as the job was secure, not stressful, and paid more than enough to easily pay all the bills. And retired in his mid-50's with plenty in the bank/retirement accounts to live comfortably off. My mom only worked part time here and there.

Point being, not all blue collar folk are stressed out and worrying about paying the bills etc. There are low stress jobs out there that provide plenty of money to live comfortably on. Blue collar/=lower class. There's a large chunk of solidly middle class families with blue collar jobs.[/QUOTE]

Agreed but that isn't really what they are talking about. That type of work isn't mindless [or I guess I should say entry level?]

(Also, off-topic but where did your Dad work? My Dad did the same thing for Bellsouth. I also did a little bit of phone work after Katrina in New Orleans.)
 
Of course we have it much better off than anyone with an unsecure job, with low wages and not benefits that make just getting by stressful as . But that's not all blue collar jobs.
Click to expand...

dmaul, many of the jobs you are talking about are pretty rare and getting rarer and aren't easy to get into by any means. I personally happen not to find answering a blackberry after hours occasionally that stressful.

Anyway:

http://whatever.scalzi.com/2010/09/26/tax-frenzies-and-how-to-hose-them-down/

Todd Henderson has been ground into a pulp throughly by dozens of people but the above is still pretty epic.
 
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