Terry Funk's wrestling topic

[quote name='pittpizza']Nobody has done this yet for wrestling. What is the attraction (besides the chicks who look like porn stars)?[/quote]

Very few people who've watched pro-wrestling for years are in it for the women. They're just new-age eye candy for the casual 18-35 male demographic.

Speaking personally, I enjoy wrestling for the sheer athleticism of the competitors. They have my utmost respect for getting into the ring day in and day out, putting their bodies on the line for my entertainment.

Back in the day when most of us were younger, these guys were like real-life superheroes in a classic struggle of good vs. evil. You'd see your favorite guy get beaten and battered by the villain, and then with the support of the crowd, make a comeback towards the end of the match and, 9 times out of 10, defeat the villain and save the day to the roar of a crowd. And to top it all off, they didn't even appear to be hurt afterwards.

I hope that didn't sound as corny as I made it out to be :lol:
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Meatwad doesn't pretend to be real. He was never a competitive sport and never purported to be a "real" competition. Plus he is animated and in a cartoon. Your analogy fails.

Of course I am going to get bashed in here, I came in here specifically to flame the hell out of all of you and wrestling in general. It kind of reminds me when Borat when to the Texas rodeo and began speaking about how much better Khazakastan was than the US.

Seriously though, all flaming and previous stupidity aside, I really don't get it (or NASCAR). I realize its popular and, at least now, realize that fans don't think its real. I guess this is what I dont get: If you know its fake then where is the enjoyment?

I love the steelers, UFC, boxing, and sports in general, but if I knew that it was all fake and the outcome of any given game/match/bout was predetermined it would ruin it for me and I would lose all interest because what attracted me to the sport is now lost (namely, the anything-can-happen and competitive feel).

So what is so great about wrestling that makes it so entertaining when there is no sport in it?[/quote]

attention%20whore3.jpg
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Nobody has done this yet for wrestling. What is the attraction (besides the chicks who look like porn stars)?[/QUOTE]

Actually, I'm thoroughly uninterested in the cheesecake on the show.

It's pretty silly to act as if wrestling is the only indefensible tv show on the planet (let me merely state that only idiots who mistake a common recollection of pop culture for humor watch Family Guy - OH MY GOD! PETER MENTIONED "KNIGHT RIDER!" THAT'S FUNNY!).

Wrestling is part soap opera: when the characters and storylines are interesting, the conflict the ensues is compelling programming. Is the fix in? Yeah, but don't be a tool and think every sports event you've seen in your life was legitimately contested, from steroids to biased calls to gambling NBA refs...the defining point between "sport" and "nonsport" is more blurry than your logic that I need to justify my watching of wrestling. On any given day, I can turn on ESPN or Fox Sports and see billiards, poker, golf, or darts. Would you call those sports merely because they are uncontested? What about bungee jumping, or hanggliding, base jumping, rock climbing? The only "contest" in those events is to not die.

I'd like to see John Daly get in a wrestling ring and find out how much of an "athlete" he truly is. Anyone with a physique and consuming habits resembling John Belushi is NOT an athlete, as far as I'm concerned.

So, when the show is compelling, fake or not fake, it's compelling TV. There have been very few compelling characters or storylines over the past several years, but that doesn't keep me from watching. Like a junkie, I'm waiting for my next "fix." It may never come, but I keep thinking it will. If you've never marked out, you wouldn't get it.

Most important as far as the "fake" aspect is concerned, wrestling does not tell you it is fake. The program is sculpted so as to hide the scripting from the viewer. The viewer acts and reacts to the stimuli they are presented with: like watching a movie and believing that Tom Hanks has AIDS, or that Harrison Ford really is a space bounty hunter, you react to what you are presented with, which is a scripted program devoid of its blooper reel. It's pretty basic social psychology. To the contrary, then, if it's so simple, I challenge you to watch an hour of ECW TV tonight, and predict the outcome (winner, loser, and type of match ending) for the 3-4 matches tonight. If you cannot predict it with 100% accuracy, then your claims about "the fix" are moot, since you cannot see them either. Right? Right.

Also, don't fail to realize that wrestling, even if fake, is an art form. When done poorly, it's a terrible thing to watch, like third graders trying to put together their very first play/pageant. When done well, you won't be able to discern what is fake and what is real. You'll tell yourself "I know wrestling is fake, but GODDAMN that totally looked real/looked like it hurt!" That doesn't mean you'll take a liking to it, but you'll appreciate what it is.

Lastly, I'd like to have a laugh at your belief that UFC lacks any "pro wrestling" elements to it at all. Do you agree that, when Chuck Lidell surprised UFC by winning the LH title, that the didn't "feed" him guys in PPV matches they KNEW he would annihilate, for the purpose of making him appears to be an unbeatable champion? Like that Brazilian babaloo motherfucker? That dude was a joke and didn't deserve to wipe the mat at that show, let alone face Liddell. He was a JOBBER, a concept derived from pro wrestling. Moreover, I'll see if I can recall the name of the book on the history of pro wrestling, which explained how pro wrestling became fake: in short, it was because genuine wresting matches were boring as shit at the time: if you've ever seen a 15-minute roll-on-the-mat-and-put-me-to-sleep match in MMA, then multiply that by 8, and imagine what that would be like at 2 fucking hours.

Lastly, I saw this interview with Chad Johnson on ESPN last week and was amazed by how much it resembled a pro wrestling interview:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siIkMT25ImQ[/media]

Compare it with this:
...erm, anyone find a link to the JR/Mankind interview from 1998?
 
Yes, ZD, Yes you are.

Sorry Halo5, I dont know what an x-pac is and I really dont plan on sticking around this thread (to the joy of many I;m sure since my purpose here was to instigate).

I finally was provided with some of the info I was looking for. Although its not for me, now I at least get what some people enjoy about wrestling even though the fans themselves know that the winner is predetermined. Its the soap opera stuff I suppose and I'm not a fan of soap operas.

I dont know if you were trying to imply that because most people don't know what the outcome of a match will be, that means it is not fixed. I'll just go ahead and assume that thats not what you're saying because that is stupid. Just because I (and prob. most of the tools on this board) can't pick who will win ECW fights does not mean that the winners aren't picked before the fight even starts.

And how can you be uninterested in those wrestling chicks!? Are you serious, they are some of the most gorgeous girls on TV. If its from an "I enjoyed this great old thing before it went mainstream" point of view then I can relate. I liked Green Day alot 10 years ago, but then they went on MTV and it was all down hill from there.

I never said wrestling was not a sport or that golf was. What I was getting at was that "sports" are at least competitive. THe PGA doesnt get together and say "OKay now this championship everybody needs to bogey the 17th and par the 18th so that Tiger can win." I am not interested in getting into a debate on the correct definition of "sport". I don't know if there is one litmus test that you can use to define somethign as a sport or not, but I can tell you that the winner and loser of a "sport" IMO are not/should not be predetermined. While we are on the topic of things I never said, I also never said UFC lacks any "pro wrestling" elements to it at all; you did.
 
But you've artfully dodged my points about UFC. Nicely done, but don't think I didn't notice.

As for the matches not being fixed, that's not what I said. What I'm saying is that it doesn't matter, because what you see on TV doesn't hint at the fix being in. It's pure Erving Goffman frontstage/backstage at its finest. If I think you're a cunt, but I talk to you like you're a nice person, you're only going to find out I think you're a cunt if someone else tells you I mentioned it. In the meantime, you're still going to react to what you're given.

The fix doesn't matter, because you can't possibly react to the show as if the fix was there. Only after the fact can you say "well, ok, it's obvious that Triple H was going to win"...but the truth of the matter is this: you genuinely have no idea that he was going to win. You also had no idea that Snape killed Dumbledore until you read through "Half Blood Prince," but still enjoyed the ride along the way, and remained surprised when such an event did happen. Right? Right. Wrestling is not the only thing that is scripted out there in this world, and there are scripted things out there that you enjoy and are surprised by. What I can't get is how you can enjoy programming that shares many parallels with wrestling, but somehow can't get over wrestling's scripted nature as a point of wanting to watch it. Imagine the shows you'd have to no longer watch based off of that criterion!

Now, if you said "well, the characters are two dimensional, sexist and racist/ethnic stereotypes, homophobes, and engaged in petty feuds of either unbelievably simplistic or unbelieveably convoluted and unlikely," I'd shake your hand and say "I fully agree with you, good sir. Let us share some Yeunglings and watch Ring of Honor videos." But, since you have to go the "it's fake" route, I'm merely pointing out that (1) it's a silly point of criticism given what you, and most other people watch, (2) given how you react to those shows that are fake and predetermined in writing, you should know damn well that the fix being in on wrestling is psychologically irrelevant, and (3) there are plenty of damned good reasons to dislike wrestling, but "it's fake" simply is not one of them.
 
Well, the characters are two dimensional, sexist and racist/ethnic stereotypes, homophobes, and engaged in petty feuds of either unbelievably simplistic or unbelieveably convoluted and unlikely.

Whose buying the first round?

Back to some seriousness though, I didn't/wouldn't really know about those problems about pro-wrestling's characters but now that you mention it I can see them.

As to your UFC points, I really dont know enough about it to go round for round with you there. Are you saying they gave Lidell an easy fight so he could win easily? Even if this were true, a mismatch of skill and ability is not as bad IMO as the dude losing on purpose, which is what happens in wrestling.

And to me, saying that it being fixed is psychologicaly irrelevant is untrue. At least as it applies to me because even though I may not be able to predict the outcome, it makes me know that everything that appears before me is just a song and dance. Its really no different than a play or any other of the myriad shows/books/fiction you mentioned. I understand your point that it is inconsistent to have a problem with wrestling being fixed and not mind it in other shows/movies/books but there is a big difference. Wrestling is competetitive where 2+ people are duking it out to be the victor and they sell it as if its real. Its inaccurate to compare an actor acting off of a script in a movie with a wrestler who is supposed to be trying to win a "competitive" match no matter what. Its all fluff, smoke and mirrors and makeup with no substance to me. Another big difference is that it used to be real. The old stuff with substance that you said was boring which I will call "real wrestling" interests me more even though there is far less show to it.
 
Trust me, we like the "wrestling chicks". If Kelly Kelly, Mickie James, Gail Kim, or Michelle McCool came a knockin' on my door, they would be welcome for as long as they like. Lord knows I have no problems viewing nudes of any Diva....

But we have more respect for the atheltic abilty of the actual wrestlers and not just eye candy. It's no different than the respect for Jackie Chan's stunt work. Wrestling has the elements of a movie, a comic book, and sports all in one package.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Well, the characters are two dimensional, sexist and racist/ethnic stereotypes, homophobes, and engaged in petty feuds of either unbelievably simplistic or unbelieveably convoluted and unlikely.

Whose buying the first round?[/QUOTE]

It doesn't work like that (unless you're buyin' all night).
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']If the diva search "result" is Jericho coming back and telling them to both take a hike, he will truly have saved us.[/quote]

I loved that the crowd booed that whole segment. You could hear a guy yell "who cares" when they announced the winner.

Pittpizza, you're saying you're here to instigate. But it looks like you're just trying to get us fired up by trolling.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Yes, ZD, Yes you are. [/quote]
That's not witty.

Fact is you're flame baiting and I'm surprised people haven't been more willing to contact a mod. Nothing Myke, myself, or anyone says is going to change your point of view and the only thing interested in is riling people up.

You are an attention whore.
 
ZD I could go all day with the "I know you are but what am I" line of debate, but I wont.

Guile, wrestling lacks the single most important element of sport: competition.

Myke, I think we're too far geographically to be buying each other beers. I live pretty far from undesirable.

Everybody else, okay, I admit it and have admitted it from my first post: I am not a fan of wrestling and stopped by this thread to (1) tell you all how stupid i think it is (accomplished) (2) fire some people up and debate and argue and flame/get flamed a little (accomplished) and (3) find out what it is exactly that fans enjoy about wrestling (accomplished). But thats all done now so I'll go ahead and bugger off!
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Guile, wrestling lacks the single most important element of sport: competition. [/quote]

Yet people watch Field of Dreams, Rocky, The Great White Hope, etc...

Those lack real sports competition, yet sports fans love it. Especially Rocky...

Once again, non-wrestling fans try to put the square peg of "sports realism" into the round hole of "sports entertainment".

They are seperate things that borrow elements from each other. Look no further than Terell Owens, Ali, or Dennis Rodman. In "legitimate" sports, they used "pro wrestling style" commentary and antics to simulate entertainment. Just like pro wrestling has weight classes, title history, and even a hall of fame to simluate realism.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Guile, wrestling lacks the single most important element of sport: competition.[/QUOTE]The Godfather lacks the single most important element of the broadway musical: a rousing song and dance routine.

How could ANYONE enjoy The Godfather??? It's not a real musical!!!!

:D
 
[quote name='pittpizza']
If its from an "I enjoyed this great old thing before it went mainstream" point of view then I can relate. I liked Green Day alot 10 years ago, but then they went on MTV and it was all down hill from there.
[/QUOTE]

OMG you must have been so underground listening to green day back in 1997, I mean... you probably even own the Dookie CD...

I hope you were exaggerating (i.e. you really meant 15 years or something), but based on the content of your posts in this thread... .I kinda doubt it
 
[quote name='zzl365']OMG you must have been so underground listening to green day back in 1997, I mean... you probably even own the Dookie CD...

I hope you were exaggerating (i.e. you really meant 15 years or something), but based on the content of your posts in this thread... .I kinda doubt it[/QUOTE]

Dude, I liked Green Day before American Idiot :roll:
 
Allright I tried to leave but since people keep mentining and quoting me I guess that means you want me to stick around. I'll give you a hint if you don't want me to stick around: dont quote or mentioin my posts.

[quote name='monkeydeew']wait, does this mean santa and the easter bunny arent real either?[/quote]

Spoken like a true wrestling fan who has a hard time telling whats real and whats fake.

And sports movies are different than wrestling because they don't pretend to be real competitive sports. Because of this, anymore arguments that wrestling is just like movies, books, broadway, or any other scripted form of entertainment are moot because these don't pretend to be a competitive sport.

The Godfather never pretended to be anything; can't say the same for wrestling which is 90% pretending mixed with 10% bodybuilidng and athletic/gymnastic ability.

As to the greenday timing, I was in 6th grade when I became a fan so I guess that was...yeah about the time of Dookie 1993/94. I still stand behind my statment and say that after they got on MTV it was all downhill from there.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']And to me, saying that it being fixed is psychologicaly irrelevant is untrue. At least as it applies to me because even though I may not be able to predict the outcome, it makes me know that everything that appears before me is just a song and dance. Its really no different than a play or any other of the myriad shows/books/fiction you mentioned. I understand your point that it is inconsistent to have a problem with wrestling being fixed and not mind it in other shows/movies/books but there is a big difference. Wrestling is competetitive where 2+ people are duking it out to be the victor and they sell it as if its real. Its inaccurate to compare an actor acting off of a script in a movie with a wrestler who is supposed to be trying to win a "competitive" match no matter what. Its all fluff, smoke and mirrors and makeup with no substance to me. Another big difference is that it used to be real. The old stuff with substance that you said was boring which I will call "real wrestling" interests me more even though there is far less show to it.[/QUOTE]

I don't dislike lawyers because of all the myriad reasons to dislike them; I dislike them because they're grown up versions of those students who try to make counterarguments to widespread social patterns with anecdotes.
 
You like to make an awful lot of claims for something you don't like. So, either you're bluffing in your knowledge of what wrestling is, or you simply do like it but fail to admit it.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I don't dislike lawyers because of all the myriad reasons to dislike them; I dislike them because they're grown up versions of those students who try to make counterarguments to widespread social patterns with anecdotes.[/quote]

Ad hominem and off topic maybe? I was just trying to explain why its pych. relevant to ME personally. Not once in this thread did I make a counterargument to a widespread social pattern, however I have been explaining my personal views on wrestling...to the shegrin of many.

And you're right!!! Im a closet wrestling fan! I can't wait to go home and get my fix(ed).
 
fuck your ad hominem. Your ad hominems started when you hopped in here questioning why someone of my superior intellect would watch such drivel.

And I don't care what is or isn't relevant to you personally. Just like your myriad "this is what I see in front of my face" claims in whatever thread became that long ass discussion on recidivism rates, you tend to argue from the perspective of someone who has seen a tree, but won't admit to the existence of forests.
 
I have an extra ticket for the Ring of Honor Philly show this Friday (11/2) if anyone is interested in it. It's General Admission and for $13, that's how much I paid for my tickets and is a steal considering GA is $25 at the door.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Allright I tried to leave but since people keep mentining and quoting me I guess that means you want me to stick around. I'll give you a hint if you don't want me to stick around: dont quote or mentioin my posts. [/quote]

Hey, now.

Don't run a red light then look with shock as the po' po' pulls up behind you.
 
[quote name='Midnite']I have an extra ticket for the Ring of Honor Philly show this Friday (11/2) if anyone is interested in it. It's General Admission and for $13, that's how much I paid for my tickets and is a steal considering GA is $25 at the door.[/quote]

You'll probably have a much better shot of getting rid of it at the venue unless you want to pick me up and drop me off at my house in Jersey. I'll even cover gas lol.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']You'll probably have a much better shot of getting rid of it at the venue unless you want to pick me up and drop me off at my house in Jersey. I'll even cover gas lol.[/QUOTE]

I thought I'd offer it here before trying to sell it at the venue.

Wish I could help you out on a ride, I have no idea what traffic is going to be like friday on 95 north from Baltimore.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Lastly, I saw this interview with Chad Johnson on ESPN last week and was amazed by how much it resembled a pro wrestling interview:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siIkMT25ImQ

Compare it with this:
...erm, anyone find a link to the JR/Mankind interview from 1998?[/quote]

Is this the one, myke?
[MEDIA]http://youtube.com/watch?v=IhNZxasj5II[/MEDIA]
 
You know this just occured to me after looking at a bunch of pictures from the weekend Halloween parties.. has it been brought to attention that Matt Hardy's v1 hand gesture is actually the shocker!? :lol:
 
[quote name='CouRageouS']You know this just occured to me after looking at a bunch of pictures from the weekend Halloween parties.. has it been brought to attention that Matt Hardy's v1 hand gesture is actually the shocker!? :lol:[/QUOTE]

Why do you think Lita dumped him? She's too classy for that sort of thing.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']fuck your ad hominem. Your ad hominems started when you hopped in here questioning why someone of my superior intellect would watch such drivel.

And I don't care what is or isn't relevant to you personally. Just like your myriad "this is what I see in front of my face" claims in whatever thread became that long ass discussion on recidivism rates, you tend to argue from the perspective of someone who has seen a tree, but won't admit to the existence of forests.[/QUOTE]

First, I think you may need to look up what ad hominem means. I may have a head start in latin comparatively speaking but wiki works wonders.

Second, obviously you do care. Just because I am critical if I see someone point to a solitary tree and say "Look! A forest!" does not make me wrong. When I don't have the statistics and research memorized or available, I go from experience.

Halo, last time I checked Star Wars or any other movie or book or play etc. (unlike wrestling) never was real, and never portended to be an actual competitive sport.

Guile, I'm not shocked. I was actually being a little benevolent and was simply trying to give a hint and help out those who are getting upset/annoyed that I don't like wrestling because it's fake (or that people are responding to me).

Also I should probably say that if you like wrestling, go for it, enjoy it! Who am I to tell you what to think about something, be an individual and make your own mind up about what you like and what you dont. I appreciate those of you who took the time to explain what you like about it and how you could still like it even though you know its rigged. It was wrong of me to come in here and say "You're an idiot if you like wrestling." That only applies to NASCAR.
 
[quote name='pittpizza']
Halo, last time I checked Star Wars or any other movie or book or play etc. (unlike wrestling) never was real, and never portended to be an actual competitive sport.
[/QUOTE]

Did you not claim to like Stephen Colbert? I have never seen him break character either. It may be a different "genre", but if you think wrestling is crap because it's "pretending to be real but isn't" (i.e. they don't roll credits saying Terry Bollea as Hulk Hogan, etc) , how could you enjoy The Colbert Report?
 
Last time I checked whether any play,book, movie, etc is real is never actually mentioned in said play, book, or movie, but w/e.
 
[quote name='Zen Davis']I'm annoyed by the fact that people are even willing to respond to Mr. Moron.[/QUOTE]

Go to User CP
Under Control Panel on the left then under Miscellanious click on "Buddy/Ignore List"
On the Ignore Side put pittpizza on it then hit the Update Ignore List button.

Problem solved.

Oh, and pittpizza....

Ignore +1
 
I wish he'd just say the real reason he doesn't like wrestling, all of his reasons so far are shit.

In the end, it all comes down to " sweaty men in tights" and " it looks so fake".
 
[quote name='pittpizza']It was wrong of me to come in here and say "You're an idiot if you like wrestling."[/QUOTE]
HA HA YOU WERE WRONG
 
[quote name='pittpizza']Yeah, thats fair. I realize im not gonna make any friends in here by raggin on wrestling.

At the very least I can explain what I like about the stuff I watch. I like family guy because the show makes me laugh, stewie is fuckin hilarious, and the type of comedy they have is really edgy. I like the hist/disc. shows becaue they're educational and usually about stuff I'm interested in.

Nobody has done this yet for wrestling. What is the attraction (besides the chicks who look like porn stars)?[/quote]

You like family guy because you take things at face value. The reality is the show has no plot whatsoever and the jokes are repetitive and interchangeable. While I'll admit the show has its moments, and I'll watch it from time to time, I certainly don't think of it as well written, "fuckin hilarious" or "edgy" by any means. I can see where people with the mental capacity that you've displayed thus far would really get into that show though: it makes references to things you're familiar with from your childhood, so you can relate to that, it's trendy amongst pop-culture, so you can relate to that, and it doesn't take any intelligence to get the jokes, so you can relate to that too. Sadly said, it's people with your mentality that re-elected Bush.
 
Yeah, I am sure there are a few people with some modicum of intelligence that actually enjoy wrestling even though its fake. And Beef, I already informed this thread how to make me STFU, yet people keep coming back for more. I love it.

I also think its funny how people feel they need to inform everybody they're ignoring me, like the best way to win is to just ignore somebody. I suppose ignorance is bliss but I am more of a knowledge is power person. It doesn't surprise me people in the wrestling topic prefer ignorance over discourse.

Punk Rave, lemme repeat myself and clarify my opinion for you since you dont seem to understand it: What I don't (didn't) get about wrestling was how people could still enjoy it when they know the outcome is fixed from the get go. When people challenged me that movies are fixed from the get go I responded that movies (unlike wrestleing) don't purport to be a competitive competition.

I have, however, come to realize that people like wrestling becasue of the show aspects to it: the lights, outfits, makeup, girls, etc... not because of the competitive aspect which is why people enjoy "real" sports. I am not saying the two dont share similarities, they do, they just dont have the core element of sport which is competition for victory.
 
wtf..


wwe.com removed presale info for mania.. does that mean that the presale is cancelleD?

wtf.. ticketmaster.com says presale is thursday....

Internet Presale Info

Priority Presale:

Start:Thu, 11/01/07 10:00 AM EDT
End:Fri, 11/02/07 05:00 PM EDT
 
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