The 2008 MLB Season Thread (Update: Phillies Won)

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[quote name='dafoomie']90 million is about an average payroll... It would stand to reason that if your payroll were below average, your team is more likely to be below average.

That you can name 4 teams that are competitive despite a below average payroll shows that its not impossible. Cleveland will probably win the division while spending $60 million less than Detroit, and the Sox will probably win theirs despite spending $76 million less than the Yankees. I'll also take the Brewers at $81m over the Cubs at $121m, and Colorado (68m) and Arizona (66m) are probably both better than the Dodgers (118m not incl. the manager)[/quote]

I never said it was 'impossible' just showed you need to spend money in Baseball. Cleveland is a very good team, The Red Sox still spend a shit load of money.

The only downside of trying to compete agaisnt the 'big money teams' is everyone knows CC Sabathia is leaving the Indians after this season, which means they have to keep stock-piling more talent.
 
[quote name='dracula']


Consavative bet is on the tigers winning the AL and the brewers in the NL. But that can change, the red sox, angels, mariners, yankees, indians all figure to be in the mix in the AL. The NL is garbage this year. I guess the mets look solid, and maybe whoever comes out of, the NL central- the cubs and brewers could get it done. IMO the Nl looks weak this year[/quote]


The tigers have no bullpen..personally i wonder if they will even make the playofss as magolia ordonez will most likely not play like he did last year....I picked the tigers to take the wc, but unless the shore up there bullpen even if they are able to hold off the angels, yanks, and bluejays for the WC, they won't make it far without some people in the bullpen..pitching wins in the playoffs, and the tigers have a mediocre closer, and no setup/middle relief help. The redsox for the entire 90's and early part of this decade as well as the yanks recently show that hitting can't win in oct.
 
[quote name='bigdaddy']This year... and the last several.[/quote]

I wouldn't say the NL is garbage, the pitching is leaps and bounds better than the NL than the AL.

Hell, i'd take the NL West pitching alone vs the AL.
 
I don't know about that...first all it is all speculative as the pitcher hits in the NL and is a gimmee out...and if you conceded that the hitting is much better in the AL, then the pitchers you really can't compare.

While not every al team has a deep staff, most of the aces are in the AL...beckett, sabathia, holliday, and carmona to name a few. Who does the NL have as legit established aces...santana? His numbers were horrible late last summer and a lot of scouts were ? if he would be a decent pitcher going forward....webb, I would love to see him in the AL east or central...jake peavy is a stud pitcher..young looks solid but hasn't put up solid numbers for that long...

Yes I know you love the giants and there young pitching, but they could turn into shit, it has happened before with young pitching having a good season or 2. Jeff Francis is/should not be considered a #1 pitcher on any team looking to win the WS...the redsox proved that last fall....the diamondbacks have webb, and he is good but I would love to see him play in the AL east or central and see what his numbers are....the dodgers ace is penny..come on he is going to be spending a fair amount of time on the DL, he always does...derek lowe...really derek lowe, we let that piece of shit leave the al a couple seasons ago...

a perfect example of pitching is bronson arroyo...a solid #5 pitcher in boston...he is the #2 guy in cin...he hasn't gotten any better ...the league is just weaker...
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I don't know about that...first all it is all speculative as the pitcher hits in the NL and is a gimmee out...and if you conceded that the hitting is much better in the AL, then the pitchers you really can't compare.

While not every al team has a deep staff, most of the aces are in the AL...beckett, sabathia, holliday, and carmona to name a few. Who does the NL have as legit established aces...santana? His numbers were horrible late last summer and a lot of scouts were ? if he would be a decent pitcher going forward....webb, I would love to see him in the AL east or central...jake peavy is a stud pitcher..young looks solid but hasn't put up solid numbers for that long...

Yes I know you love the giants and there young pitching, but they could turn into shit, it has happened before with young pitching having a good season or 2. Jeff Francis is/should not be considered a #1 pitcher on any team looking to win the WS...the redsox proved that last fall....the diamondbacks have webb, and he is good but I would love to see him play in the AL east or central and see what his numbers are....the dodgers ace is penny..come on he is going to be spending a fair amount of time on the DL, he always does...derek lowe...really derek lowe, we let that piece of shit leave the al a couple seasons ago...

a perfect example of pitching is bronson arroyo...a solid #5 pitcher in boston...he is the #2 guy in cin...he hasn't gotten any better ...the league is just weaker...[/quote]

I'm not talking about the Giants. You keep saying 'I'd love to see them in the AL Central' to compare. Like you said you can't. But here's a list of aces in the NL:

Dan Haren
Brandon Webb
Brad Penny
Jake Peavy
Ben Sheets
Carlos Zambrano
Cole Hamels
John Smoltz
Aaron Harang
Roy Oswalt

And I wouldn't put Carmona at 'ace' status yet.
 
Josh Beckett took an entire year to adjust from the weaker NL to the AL. AL lineups are murderous, NL lineups are weak. They make pitchers look better than they are.

Guys like Jeff Suppan can be top of the rotation guys over there but are mediocre 5th starters in the AL.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Josh Beckett took an entire year to adjust from the weaker NL to the AL. AL lineups are murderous, NL lineups are weak. They make pitchers look better than they are.

Guys like Jeff Suppan can be top of the rotation guys over there but are mediocre 5th starters in the AL.[/quote]

Or, the pitching is hideous in the AL which makes the hitters a shit load better....?
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Or, the pitching is hideous in the AL which makes the hitters a shit load better....?[/QUOTE]
None of the recent World Series's, All Star Games, or Interleague play would support your theory.

The bottom of NL lineups are trash, its not just the pitcher hitting. They don't have anything like Manny/Ortiz, or Jeter/ARod/Abreu/Giambi/Matsui/Cano.

Bronson Arroyo went from an average AL pitcher to 4th in the NL in ERA. Look at Clemens the years before and after he went to the NL, nowhere near the same numbers.
 
Pedro out 4-6 weeks. I wouldn't expect him back until sometime in June. They brought up Nelson Figueroa and right now he is in the bullpen. I think they will go with a 4 man rotation until they need to add a fifth which is not until next Saturday. Hopefully El Duque will be ready by then but who knows how long he will last. There is talk they might go after someone like the recently released Vargas. This is what the Mets get for trading away guys like Kazmir and Bannister.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']None of the recent World Series's, All Star Games, or Interleague play would support your theory.

The bottom of NL lineups are trash, its not just the pitcher hitting. They don't have anything like Manny/Ortiz, or Jeter/ARod/Abreu/Giambi/Matsui/Cano.

Bronson Arroyo went from an average AL pitcher to 4th in the NL in ERA. Look at Clemens the years before and after he went to the NL, nowhere near the same numbers.[/quote]

In interleague stats in 2007, the Pads had 3.53 ERA. While the lowest for the AL was LAA with a 3.72

With overall, the AL did lead.
 
I think it's ridiculous to state that the NL is 'trash'. There may be more legitimate WS winner contenders in the AL, but that shouldn't disparage the NL because of it.

I also disagree that NL lineups are trash compared to the AL. They're just different. Made for play in two different leagues. You tend to stick the worse batters before the pitcher, because in some of these manager's minds, they think 'who cares, the pitcher is an automatic out'.

I also disagree with the 'no potent lineups' card, as well. When healthy, who doesn't fear the Mets lineup? Two players who can get on and steal bases, plus Wright, Delgado, Beltran, Alou (say what you want, but he can still punish mistake pitches)...

The Cubs are going to have a potent lineup if Fukudome lives up to the hype. The Brewers can slug as well.

I'll certainly put the Braves there as well. The key there will be Kelly Johnson, who needs to consistently get on base.

Johnson (speed)
Escobar (speed, pop)
Jones (25-30 HR, .300 avg)
Tex (30-40 HR, .300 avg)
McCann (20-30 HR, .300 avg)
Frenchy (30 HR, .300 avg)
Diaz (20 HR, .300 avg)

I'm not sure there's another lineup in the NL that it's expected of. That's the reason most people were picking us to win the East again.
 
last years padre's had 2 studs going for them in peavy and young...the redsox played san diego, in san diego and didn't have much offense going for them. Being a fan of a coast team, you should know that going on opposite coast long road trips takes a toll on your team....they gave up 63 runs in 15 games....they played the mariners in 2 series...and this was before the mariners got on a roll...they played boston and baltimore in san diego and then they played away against tampa...it isn't like they had an faced any of the decent teams besides boston...they were 6 - 9 overall vs the al
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I think it's ridiculous to state that the NL is 'trash'. There may be more legitimate WS winner contenders in the AL, but that shouldn't disparage the NL because of it.

I also disagree that NL lineups are trash compared to the AL. They're just different. Made for play in two different leagues. You tend to stick the worse batters before the pitcher, because in some of these manager's minds, they think 'who cares, the pitcher is an automatic out'.

I also disagree with the 'no potent lineups' card, as well. When healthy, who doesn't fear the Mets lineup? Two players who can get on and steal bases, plus Wright, Delgado, Beltran, Alou (say what you want, but he can still punish mistake pitches)...

The Cubs are going to have a potent lineup if Fukudome lives up to the hype. The Brewers can slug as well.

I'll certainly put the Braves there as well. The key there will be Kelly Johnson, who needs to consistently get on base.

Johnson (speed)
Escobar (speed, pop)
Jones (25-30 HR, .300 avg)
Tex (30-40 HR, .300 avg)
McCann (20-30 HR, .300 avg)
Frenchy (30 HR, .300 avg)
Diaz (20 HR, .300 avg)

I'm not sure there's another lineup in the NL that it's expected of. That's the reason most people were picking us to win the East again.[/quote]


they aren't trash, but they are the b league..the big key for the mets is for them to stay healthy, and you can't factor that out of the equation...wright is a legitmate hitter...but reyes struggled in the 2nd half, his year on year numbers declined and reports out of spring training was that he isn't the same player he was 2 years ago...no bounce in his step...how can you be like that and be on a team that should be a in the running to be the NL champ...and delgado's productive days are far behind him

the cubs have a very good stud in soriano, but he is streaky...lee gets hurt, ramirez is another stud..but good pitching can pitch around that...foukadome is a ?

i think you are greatly overestimating the braves...you are giving them all career years...some will pan out..but come on

Johnson (speed) 9 sb in 800 +++ ab's ...not much speed there..

Escobar (speed, pop) has a grand total of 5 homers and 5 sb in 326 mlb ab's

Jones (25-30 HR, .300 avg)..solid player but he is almost 36

Tex (30-40 HR, .300 avg)...low 30 homers if he is healthy..had tendacy to be very streaky hitter...both him and haffner were players the redsox scouted but both have stretches where they can't touch the baseball

McCann (20-30 HR, .300 avg) had off year last year, hope he bounces back to his rookie season numbers

Frenchy (30 HR, .300 avg) has 2 season..one hit for avg 2nd hit for power, never hit .300 or 30 homers in 2 full seasons

Diaz (20 HR, .300 avg) i will give you a .300 ++ hitter..but 20 homers come on...in 309 games played, he has 21 homers...

and I like the braves...growing up as a kid I collected baseball cards...Picked up several packs of the 1988 score baseball cards at a local store with a friends....opened the packs in his mothers card, and tom glavine was the first card in the pack...noticed on the back of the card that he was from MA (not many mlb players come from New England) and that he liked hocked (I love hockey as well)..been rooting for the braves ever since..and my favorite player growing up finished off his career there..in wally "world" joyner .I think the braves will win the nl east as I don't think much of the mets, or the phillies
 
[quote name='ryanbph']The tigers have no bullpen..personally i wonder if they will even make the playofss as magolia ordonez will most likely not play like he did last year....[/quote]

with addition of miguel cabrera, magglio wont have to.

I picked the tigers to take the wc, but unless the shore up there bullpen even if they are able to hold off the angels, yanks, and bluejays for the WC, they won't make it far without some people in the bullpen..pitching wins in the playoffs, and the tigers have a mediocre closer, and no setup/middle relief help.
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For the tigers, lopez, brazado, jones, and seay all have an ERA under 4.00. they could use zumaya as a setup man if he comes back down the stretch. The rest of their pen is garbage. I would say their starting pitching is their weak spot. After verlander, it looks pretty

The redsox for the entire 90's and early part of this decade as well as the yanks recently show that hitting can't win in oct.
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Generally I would agree with that logic, but if the offense is good enough, it can overcome mediocre pitching.

Look at the 2002 anaheim angels. They simply outscored everyone

Game 1: Yankees 8, Angels 5
Game 2: Angels 8, Yankees 6
Game 3: Angels 9, Yankees 6
Game 4: Angels 9, Yankees 5

Game 1: Twins 2, Angels 1
Game 2: Angels 6, Twins 3
Game 3: Angels 2, Twins 1
Game 4: Angels 7, Twins 1
Game 5: Angels 13, Twins 5

World Series
Game 1: Giants 4, Angels 3
Game 2: Angels 11, Giants 10
Game 3: Angels 10, Giants 4
Game 4: Giants 4, Angels 3
Game 5: Giants 16, Angels 4
Game 6: Angels 6, Giants 5
Game 7: Angels 4, Giants 1

For the games they won, they averaged between 7 and half and 8 runs per game.
And 8 runs per game in the WS.

weak
 
[quote name='ryanbph']they aren't trash, but they are the b league..the big key for the mets is for them to stay healthy, and you can't factor that out of the equation...wright is a legitmate hitter...but reyes struggled in the 2nd half, his year on year numbers declined and reports out of spring training was that he isn't the same player he was 2 years ago...no bounce in his step...how can you be like that and be on a team that should be a in the running to be the NL champ...and delgado's productive days are far behind him

the cubs have a very good stud in soriano, but he is streaky...lee gets hurt, ramirez is another stud..but good pitching can pitch around that...foukadome is a ?

i think you are greatly overestimating the braves...you are giving them all career years...some will pan out..but come on

Johnson (speed) 9 sb in 800 +++ ab's ...not much speed there..

Escobar (speed, pop) has a grand total of 5 homers and 5 sb in 326 mlb ab's

Jones (25-30 HR, .300 avg)..solid player but he is almost 36

Tex (30-40 HR, .300 avg)...low 30 homers if he is healthy..had tendacy to be very streaky hitter...both him and haffner were players the redsox scouted but both have stretches where they can't touch the baseball

McCann (20-30 HR, .300 avg) had off year last year, hope he bounces back to his rookie season numbers

Frenchy (30 HR, .300 avg) has 2 season..one hit for avg 2nd hit for power, never hit .300 or 30 homers in 2 full seasons

Diaz (20 HR, .300 avg) i will give you a .300 ++ hitter..but 20 homers come on...in 309 games played, he has 21 homers...[/QUOTE]

You hear and see a lot more things by following a team - things that Wikipedia isn't going to tell you.

Johnson was converted from LF and had Tommy John surgery. Two huge factors in his lack of production. When you don't get on base, it's hard to let your speed come into play. And stolen bases isn't the primary byproduct of speed, and isn't what you're most concerned about. It's 1st to third on base hits to the outfield.

We traded away an All-Star .330 shortstop in order to give Escobar a shot. There are some who are saying he'll be the best SS in the majors, not just the NL East. I've not known the Scheurholz/Wren team to make a bad trade for a position player in the last ten years. Once Escobar gets adjusted to playing every day, watch out.

Chipper, aside from nagging injuries, is seemingly ageless. .337 and 29 HR in 134 games? Let's wait for him to actually have worse numbers before the age train comes into play.

Tex has averaged 34 dingers a year, and this is a contract year.

McCann was nagged all of last year with an ankle problem. Look for him to regain form, if he can put down the Varsity dogs.

Frenchy - by all accounts down in Orlando, he's put both together. He added 20lbs of muscle, and is already shown better patience at the plate. I don't know of anyone who watched him in-person this spring that doesn't expect him to put everything together this year.

Diaz - maybe the dingers were a stretch, but he hasn't played every day for how many years now?
 
[quote name='dafoomie']90 million is about an average payroll...
[/quote]

the number on the left is the total team payroll, the number on the right is the average team PR

1-N.Y. Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567***********
2-Detroit 138,685,197 4,622,840**********
3-New York Mets 138,293,378 4,609,779*****
4-Boston 133,440,037 4,765,716************
5-Chicago White Sox 121,152,667 4,487,136
6-Los Angeles Angels 119,216,333 4,110,908***********
7-Chicago Cubs 118,595,833 4,392,438***********
8-Los Angeles Dodgers 118,536,038 4,233,430****
9-Seattle 117,993,982 4,538,230************
10-Atlanta 102,424,018 3,414,134
11-St. Louis 100,624,450 3,049,226
12-Toronto 98,641,957 3,522,927
13-Philadelphia 98,269,881 3,388,617***********
14-Houston 88,930,415 3,293,719*********
15-Milwaukee 81,004,167 2,793,247*********
16-Cleveland 78,970,067 3,037,310**********
17-San Francisco 76,904,500 2,651,879
18-Cincinnati 74,277,695 2,971,108************
19-San Diego 73,677,617 2,376,697************
20-Colorado 68,655,500 2,640,596*************
21-Texas 68,239,551 2,353,088
22-Baltimore 67,196,248 2,099,883
23-Arizona 66,202,713 2,364,383************
24-Minnesota 62,182,767 2,487,311***********
25-Kansas City 58,245,500 2,240,212
26-Washington 54,961,000 1,895,207
27-Pittsburgh 49,365,283 1,898,665
28-Oakland 47,967,126 1,713,112
29-Tampa Bay 43,820,598 1,460,687
30-Florida 21,836,500 661,712

It would stand to reason that if your payroll were below average, your team is more likely to be below average.
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I count 9 teams above $90 million payrolls, and 8 teams under $90 million that have a realistic shot, that is parity. I guess that might be partly skewed because none of the NL west teams can really be counted out, except for the giants. I guess you could argue that the bluejays and chisox have a shot, but i think they would be lucky to finish 3rd because their divisions are so tough. not that they are bad teams, but there are too many good teams ahead of them to give them much of a realistic chance.


That you can name 4 teams that are competitive despite a below average payroll shows that its not impossible. Cleveland will probably win the division while spending $60 million less than Detroit, and the Sox will probably win theirs despite spending $76 million less than the Yankees. I'll also take the Brewers at $81m over the Cubs at $121m, and Colorado (68m) and Arizona (66m) are probably both better than the Dodgers (118m not incl. the manager)
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the really odd thing about this is that the marlins are at 21 millions. hell there are a few players making more than that-giambi, arod, and maybe matsuzaka if you count the $50 million the sox paid for the right to sign him

its true that they only get a few hundred fans each night, but they still get some revenue sharing and advertising and so on.
 
[quote name='dracula']with addition of miguel cabrera, magglio wont have to.



For the tigers, lopez, brazado, jones, and seay all have an ERA under 4.00. they could use zumaya as a setup man if he comes back down the stretch. The rest of their pen is garbage. I would say their starting pitching is their weak spot. After verlander, it looks pretty



Generally I would agree with that logic, but if the offense is good enough, it can overcome mediocre pitching.

Look at the 2002 anaheim angels. They simply outscored everyone

Game 1: Yankees 8, Angels 5
Game 2: Angels 8, Yankees 6
Game 3: Angels 9, Yankees 6
Game 4: Angels 9, Yankees 5

Game 1: Twins 2, Angels 1
Game 2: Angels 6, Twins 3
Game 3: Angels 2, Twins 1
Game 4: Angels 7, Twins 1
Game 5: Angels 13, Twins 5

World Series
Game 1: Giants 4, Angels 3
Game 2: Angels 11, Giants 10
Game 3: Angels 10, Giants 4
Game 4: Giants 4, Angels 3
Game 5: Giants 16, Angels 4
Game 6: Angels 6, Giants 5
Game 7: Angels 4, Giants 1

For the games they won, they averaged between 7 and half and 8 runs per game.
And 8 runs per game in the WS.

weak[/quote]

besides the yankee series, they also pitched fairly well....they also had a kick ass bullpen to make up for the weak back end of the rotation..krod was unhittable and percival was still a solid closer.. in some of those games they scored 7 ++ runs, they would have still won if they had only scored 4 or so..they had 2 really bad outing vs the giants...i don't remeber the series that much, but I do know that if you get a big lead pitchers groove stuff to get the game going quicker.
 
This isn't directed to anyone here, but I do have this beef:

Well, if they stay healthy...

No shit. It's not as if there's a team out there that could, or wants to, cope with a lot of injuries. I hate that qualification, it's a bullshit qualification.

I will say that I know of no rotation that is as deep as the Braves, though. Smoltz, Glavine, Hudson, Hampton, and this kid Jurrjens. And if any of them need a start or two off, I believe there are 5 starting pitchers at Richmond that won nine games last year in Atlanta (I'll have to check on that statement, but I thought that's what I heard, and it doesn't surprise me). So Smoltz starting on the DL, Hampton going on the DL, even Glavine going on for a stretch - we won't have to panic and make a stupid trade or look for a cast-off on the waivers, like NY might have to do.

Kotsay, I could really care less about on offense. As long as he sucks up 90% of the balls that he should catch, then that's great. Jordan Shaefer will probably get called up before September to get some CF time for next year.

Also, our bench is ridiculous. There's no huge names on there, but they are all solid defensive players who aren't going to come in and strike out every time they're called upon. Hopefully, Spiezio will be in playing shape for September call-ups to give us a nice vet, much like Franco was for those years.
 
[quote name='dracula']the number on the left is the total team payroll, the number on the right is the average team PR[/QUOTE]

You mean per player, right?

the really odd thing about this is that the marlins are at 21 millions. hell there are a few players making more than that-giambi, arod, and maybe matsuzaka if you count the $50 million the sox paid for the right to sign him

its true that they only get a few hundred fans each night, but they still get some revenue sharing and advertising and so on.
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It's not near enough to survive, and put a product out on the field people will show up for. The Marlins need a new owner, a new ballpark, and a new mindset. Otherwise, they'll be in San Juan in a couple of years.
 
I disagree about the marlins...they have won 2 world series in the past 10 years...both times they got ride of the majority of the team...they don't need to spend a shit load of money, as long as they make the right moves in dumping players that are out of there price range...there stadium does suck and they need a new one...but the fans need to show up regardless...it isn't like they were packing the stadiums the seasons that they were winning...The a's went for years being a contender with a really small payroll...the twins did the same thing...both teams made some mistakes on keeping players too long or not getting the best deals possible for the stars...It would be ideal if the ownership ponied up some money to keep there players...It would be ideal if they had a better stadium, but I don't think they would get the fans if they did have all of that. IMO they should be moved out of the state...2 MLB teams in florida is too many.

The redsox have a big payroll...but it is quite possible that cutting $10 mill off the payroll they will compete for the al east and WS this year...It is very possible that they let manny walk at the end of the year and replace him with moss which would be another $20 million off the payroll...schillings $8 mill contract will also be off the books and most likely replaced with a young pitcher (masterson/bowdin/buckholtz if he doesn't play much at the mlb level this year)..it is entirely possible the sox payroll next year will be close to 100 mill..down a shitload from the 06 payroll, and they could still compete..IMO payroll isn't a key to a winning organization, it is the scouts and minor league development system...you draft the right players, and develop them you will be fine and should be able to compete each year.

and dice k if you include the $50 mill posting, i don't think he would be over $105 for 5 years ( i think he got a 54mill 5 year deal or in that range) so no he wouldn't have a $21mill per season salary with the posting....personally i don't think you can count the posting fee as part of the salary...boston didn't have any relationship with the japanese leagues, very little to no scouting, and there team souveniors didn't sell...getting dice, they sold a shit load of sox junk to the japanese public..they have developed a great relationship with the japaneses pro leagues, and they have tv revenues coming in as they air redsox game over there now...and they have japanese company ad revenue coming in that wasnt' there before. $50 mill was a shit load of money to speak to him. They have made that up with the revenue they have/will generate from the asian markets, never mind the ability to get japanese players to come to there team.

as for if they stay healthy, some players get hurt more often and it hurts there value...in boston cocco crisp has been hurt every season he has been here for several weeks...trot nixon was the same way...harden with the a's couldn't get traded, even though he is a great pitcher, due to constant injury problems..shit mike hampton is a perfect example...

as for contract years..yes most players have great years, but some don't due to pressure. Andrew jones, and the way zambrano pitched before he signed his contract last year are great recent examples.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']You mean per player, right?[/quote]

it looks like thats the team average from the 25 guys that made each team on opening day, if thats what you mean.

It's not near enough to survive, and put a product out on the field people will show up for. The Marlins need a new owner, a new ballpark, and a new mindset. Otherwise, they'll be in San Juan in a couple of years.
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I would love it if the marlins, devilrays, pirates and royals got contracted. I dont know if the players association would go for that. Then again, maybe they would, it could mean more fat contracts because none of the cheapskate owners are around.


I will say that I know of no rotation that is as deep as the Braves, though. Smoltz,
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smoltz is already on the DL, it sounds like you are saying that if he stays healthy, he could be good this year.

;-)

[quote name='CocheseUGA']This isn't directed to anyone here, but I do have this beef:

Well, if they stay healthy... No shit. It's not as if there's a team out there that could, or wants to, cope with a lot of injuries. I hate that qualification, it's a bullshit qualification.[/quote]

I agree completely

Glavine,
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glavine posted a 4.45 ERA, 1.41 WHIP and a Batting average against of .281 last year, and at 42 years old he is just getting worse. He is not someone I would want on my team.

Hudson
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,

Yeah, so that looks like 1 good pitcher.

Hampton
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Hampton missed all of the past 2 years after destroying his shoulder and arm, if he can stay healthy this year, maybe he could be pretty good. But dont hold your breath

and this kid Jurrjens.
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so if you want to call 1 good pitcher, 1 injured pitcher who is 41, a 42 year old pitcher who is ridiculously past his prime, 1 pitcher who missed the past 2 years with a potentially career ending injury, and a rookie with potential, if you call that the best rotation in the league that is pretty funny, if anything they are the most porous pitching staff in the league.

I guess you can include chuck james, who is also injured. But if he can stay healthy, he could be pretty good this year.
 
[quote name='dracula']
I would love it if the marlins, devilrays, pirates and royals got contracted. I dont know if the players association would go for that. Then again, maybe they would, it could mean more fat contracts because none of the cheapskate owners are around.


[/QUOTE]

At least the people in Pittsburgh show up to the games.

smoltz is already on the DL
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Which I already stated. Really, they just pushed his first start back. He says he feels fine.


glavine posted a 4.45 ERA, 1.41 WHIP and a Batting average against of .281 last year, and at 42 years old he is just getting worse. He is not someone I would want on my team.
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As relied on to be the #1 starter for the majority of the year. We don't need that. He's a fine #3, and good for another 200 innings this year. Which is the main thing we need. Take away his last three starts, and he had a pretty decent year.

Hampton missed all of the past 2 years after destroying his shoulder and arm, if he can stay healthy this year, maybe he could be pretty good. But dont hold your breath
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As I said, follows the team.

Hampton had a terrific spring, with zero arm issues. If he makes 30 starts, I think the Braves would be happy.

so if you want to call 1 good pitcher, 1 injured pitcher who is 41, a 42 year old pitcher who is ridiculously past his prime, 1 pitcher who missed the past 2 years with a potentially career ending injury, and a rookie with potential, if you call that the best rotation in the league that is pretty funny, if anything they are the most porous pitching staff in the league.

I guess you can include chuck james, who is also injured. But if he can stay healthy, he could be pretty good this year.
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I never said best, I said deepest. Read it again.
 
Crap! 0-2 start for the Cubbies. On another note it's great to see the Royals start 2-0 against one of the largest payrolls in the majors.
 
Don't anyone ever bring up the atrocity of the 2002 World Series. I literally have nightmares of Dusty Baker taking out Russ Ortiz and that mother fuckin' rally monkey.
 
Mussina is turning into the pitcher we were afraid of. He's like an old dog, you love everything he's done for you in the past, but it's time for him to be put down.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I disagree about the marlins...they have won 2 world series in the past 10 years...both times they got ride of the majority of the team...they don't need to spend a shit load of money, as long as they make the right moves in dumping players that are out of there price range...there stadium does suck and they need a new one...but the fans need to show up regardless...it isn't like they were packing the stadiums the seasons that they were winning...The a's went for years being a contender with a really small payroll...the twins did the same thing...both teams made some mistakes on keeping players too long or not getting the best deals possible for the stars...It would be ideal if the ownership ponied up some money to keep there players...It would be ideal if they had a better stadium, but I don't think they would get the fans if they did have all of that. IMO they should be moved out of the state...2 MLB teams in florida is too many.

The redsox have a big payroll...but it is quite possible that cutting $10 mill off the payroll they will compete for the al east and WS this year...It is very possible that they let manny walk at the end of the year and replace him with moss which would be another $20 million off the payroll...schillings $8 mill contract will also be off the books and most likely replaced with a young pitcher (masterson/bowdin/buckholtz if he doesn't play much at the mlb level this year)..it is entirely possible the sox payroll next year will be close to 100 mill..down a shitload from the 06 payroll, and they could still compete..IMO payroll isn't a key to a winning organization, it is the scouts and minor league development system...you draft the right players, and develop them you will be fine and should be able to compete each year.

and dice k if you include the $50 mill posting, i don't think he would be over $105 for 5 years ( i think he got a 54mill 5 year deal or in that range) so no he wouldn't have a $21mill per season salary with the posting....personally i don't think you can count the posting fee as part of the salary...boston didn't have any relationship with the japanese leagues, very little to no scouting, and there team souveniors didn't sell...getting dice, they sold a shit load of sox junk to the japanese public..they have developed a great relationship with the japaneses pro leagues, and they have tv revenues coming in as they air redsox game over there now...and they have japanese company ad revenue coming in that wasnt' there before. $50 mill was a shit load of money to speak to him. They have made that up with the revenue they have/will generate from the asian markets, never mind the ability to get japanese players to come to there team.

as for if they stay healthy, some players get hurt more often and it hurts there value...in boston cocco crisp has been hurt every season he has been here for several weeks...trot nixon was the same way...harden with the a's couldn't get traded, even though he is a great pitcher, due to constant injury problems..shit mike hampton is a perfect example...

as for contract years..yes most players have great years, but some don't due to pressure. Andrew jones, and the way zambrano pitched before he signed his contract last year are great recent examples.[/quote]

I wholeheartedly believe payroll has a MAJORITY to do with winning.

The Red Sox would've never got Beckett/Lowell had the Marlins been a team who could actually afford them.
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I disagree about the marlins...they have won 2 world series in the past 10 years...both times they got ride of the majority of the team...they don't need to spend a shit load of money[/quote]

when the marlins won in 1997, they had the 5th highest payroll in the league at $53 million, the yankees were #1 with $63 million.

http://www.baseballchronology.com/Baseball/Years/1997/Payroll.asp

Thank you for proving my point for me.

In 2003, they were #20 in the league in PR, at $63 million

http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0721/1583823.html

They made one of the most improbbable pennant runs you will likely see. At the trade deadline, they were 8 teams ahead of them in the wild card race. Then they trade for ugeth urbina who at the time was a solid closer. They get career years out of mark redman and carl pavano, and call up miguel cabrera at age 20 and finish the season 80-82.

Just about any other year, that wouldnt be anywhere near enough to get the wild card. Essentially they caught every possible break, they had the second most unlikely pennant run(i think the rockies last year have that title) in the past 20 years.

So they had a year where they were one of the highest payrolls in the league, and win a WS, and a year where they finish under .500, and put together a miraculous WS run where it took a miracle for all of those things to get them to win it all.

Now if you are saying every low PR team would need a miracle like the 2003 marlins, I might agree with that.

If you are saying that their front office is so brilliant, and that is why they finished 80-82, well I dont think that the front office was brilliant. They caught every possible break.

The a's went for years being a contender with a really small payroll...
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As an A's fan, i can tell you that the PR was never that small. Maybe in 2001, i think it was about 30 million, but again, the largest was about 100 million, not 200 million, rememer those numbers are inflated, with, well, inflation.

the twins did the same thing...
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their PR was never that small either. They were both in the bottom half, but they were not miniscule

both teams made some mistakes on keeping players too long or not getting the best deals possible for the stars...It would be ideal if the ownership ponied up some money to keep there players...It would be ideal if they had a better stadium,
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the oakland a's have already broke ground on a new stadium in fresno, ETA 2010 or 2011

but I don't think they would get the fans if they did have all of that. IMO they should be moved out of the state...2 MLB teams in florida is too many.
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Where do you want to move them? portland? las vegas? sacramento? Those are all towns that have no baseball stadium, and have repeatedly voted down baseball stadium initiatives, just like miami.

and dice k if you include the $50 mill posting, i don't think he would be over $105 for 5 years ( i think he got a 54mill 5 year deal or in that range)
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check your math, mate:
54 million +50 million= 104 million

and $104 million divided by 5= $21 millions

so no he wouldn't have a $21mill per season salary with the posting
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yes of course he would. Do the math.

as for contract years..yes most players have great years, but some don't due to pressure. Andrew jones, and the way zambrano pitched before he signed his contract last year are great recent examples.
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for every player that has a great contract year there are ten more than dont have career years. If you want to make that arguement BEFORE the steroid ban, then yeah, guys would get on the gas, and have be more likely to have a career year, and stop before it completely destroys their body.

I have no idea what the point of your post was, but you obviously are very young or dont follow baseball, and dont remember the 1997 and 2003 seasons, or for that matter the years that the recent years when a's and twins were contenders. And you seem to think the marlins would do better in las vegas. Or portland. or sacramento. All places that have no baseball stadiums.

And youre saying the bosox arent really paying that much for dice-k, even tho they are spending more money on him than the entire marlins roster, at least according to your own math.
 
you can't tell me that the marlins got robbed in that deal...hanley ramirez is on the verge of being one of the best offensive players in baseball.....annibal sanchez could be a solid 3 pitcher on a contending club if he could loose some weight and not have so many arm issues. I have no idea about the 2 or 3 other players that they got in the deal as well and where they are. The marlins also got a shit load of good prospect in getting rid of cabera and dumping willis.

I think mike lowell is a very hard worker..but without the friendly confines of the green monster, he would not have had the resurgence he has had. Playing 81 games at fenway, a dead pull hitter, has added a couple extra homers and about .030 - .040 points to his average...you take the fact that the monster has helped his average and the fact that it has boosted his confidence you get the player that he has been in a redsox uniform. His last year and a half in florida he was horrible and he was a throw in to get rid of the contract. During his last season in Florida he had no fucking idea why he couldn't hit, and even went to taking out 1 contact lense while batting to see if that would help him. He was a mental mess and looked done as a player.

As for payroll, the indian, the rockies, the diamondback, are all under $90 million this year, and they all were in the playoffs last year. You could throw in the padres as they had a 1 game elimation. The angels I would imagine were close to 90 million as they did add hunter and garland to there team. The phillies also had to pony up some money for there current players and added bullpen depth which probably put them over 90mill.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Don't anyone ever bring up the atrocity of the 2002 World Series. I literally have nightmares of Dusty Baker taking out Russ Ortiz and that mother fuckin' rally monkey.[/QUOTE]

I was at game 2, when the won 11 to 10.

i was also there for game 6, oh man, that was unforgettable. it was the sixth or 7th inning and the giant fans around me were going insane and talking all kinds of shit. And then the top blew off. the unthinkable happened, everything turned to shit and scott spezio is going to be forever remembered as a hero in anaheim.

The giant fans around me went from being loudass fools celebrating and talking all kinds of shit, then some were crying, some just sat there in shock. It was a thing of beauty. That was absolutely fantastic.

You cant put all of it on dusty baker, rob nen still got the blown save. Anytime a giant fan gets all uppity, i have to bring that up. :D
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Don't anyone ever bring up the atrocity of the 2002 World Series. I literally have nightmares of Dusty Baker taking out Russ Ortiz and that mother fuckin' rally monkey.[/quote]

How about his brilliant move to let things go in the infamous "Bartman" game until the Cubs were dead and buried?

How in the world does Dusty keep getting manager jobs in the majors?
 
[quote name='dracula']I was at game 2, when the won 11 to 10.

i was also there for game 6, oh man, that was unforgettable. it was the sixth or 7th inning and the giant fans around me were going insane and talking all kinds of shit. And then the top blew off. the unthinkable happened, everything turned to shit and scott spezio is going to be forever remembered as a hero in anaheim.

The giant fans around me went from being loudass fools celebrating and talking all kinds of shit, then some were crying, some just sat there in shock. It was a thing of beauty. That was absolutely fantastic.

You cant put all of it on dusty baker, rob nen still got the blown save. Anytime a giant fan gets all uppity, i have to bring that up. :D[/quote]

I was 12 when I went to the game where JT dragged Dusty's kid off the plate.

Scott Spezio is a big fat-$$$$$$-douchebag.

Still, great series though.
 
I am 32 ...been following baseball since 1986...

I never said the twins/a's/and marlins had the lowest payrolls...I just said they didn't have the highest and maybe I should have been more specific when I said small, meaning no where close to the yanks...and when they won the 2nd world series as unprobable as it was, they had the 20th out of what 30 or so teams.

I wasn't talking about the a's stadium I was responding to coechesle comments about the marlins stadium being shitty...and they do need a better place to play, should be in a dome.

I am a big proponet of shrinking the league...they expanded to fast, and there isn't enough good talent to go around...They won't get rid of teams, and I think a team in the carolina's would flourish. They have solid attendance at most minor league games. Yes it is minor league, but florida has a shit load of baseball games to go to besides the 2 mlb teams. There is a lot of elderly living in the state that most likely don't want to waste there money on going to a baseball game


as for the contract year comment...it was a response to cochesel...he said texeria would have a great year due to a contract year...I was just pointing out that having a great year in contract years isn't a given. Some players do, some do not


and yes, for a good part of the 90's and early 2000's I didnt' get to watch/follow baseball all that much...I was in college, partying, and working 40 hours a week from 94 - 98...from 98 untill 2003 or so I was working 80 - 90 hours a week..I didn't get to watch baseball all that much, only went to a few games, and didn't get to watch sportcenter/access the web like I have had since 03
 
according to msnbc...dice k is a 103 million dollar man

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/21314710/

so that is less then 21 mill per season

and I think I have made valid points on why you shouldn't count the posting fee into his salary per year...besides the fact MLB doesn't

if you break it down the way mlb does...he what a $10 mill a year player..that is cheaper then gil meche, barry zitto, jason schmidt etc..they made money with the relationship with the asian market on the posting fee, and will continue to make money
 
[quote name='ryanbph']you can't tell me that the marlins got robbed in that deal...hanley ramirez is on the verge of being one of the best offensive players in baseball.....annibal sanchez could be a solid 3 pitcher on a contending club if he could loose some weight and not have so many arm issues. I have no idea about the 2 or 3 other players that they got in the deal as well and where they are. The marlins also got a shit load of good prospect in getting rid of cabera and dumping willis.

I think mike lowell is a very hard worker..but without the friendly confines of the green monster, he would not have had the resurgence he has had. Playing 81 games at fenway, a dead pull hitter, has added a couple extra homers and about .030 - .040 points to his average...you take the fact that the monster has helped his average and the fact that it has boosted his confidence you get the player that he has been in a redsox uniform. His last year and a half in florida he was horrible and he was a throw in to get rid of the contract. During his last season in Florida he had no fucking idea why he couldn't hit, and even went to taking out 1 contact lense while batting to see if that would help him. He was a mental mess and looked done as a player.

As for payroll, the indian, the rockies, the diamondback, are all under $90 million this year, and they all were in the playoffs last year. You could throw in the padres as they had a 1 game elimation. The angels I would imagine were close to 90 million as they did add hunter and garland to there team. The phillies also had to pony up some money for there current players and added bullpen depth which probably put them over 90mill.[/quote]

I'm not saying they 'got robbed', but that trade would've never been made had the Marlins been a team who continually spent money.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']At least the people in Pittsburgh show up to the games.[/quote]

they have a new stadium, and unless they get their act together, that wont be able to draw 23000 per game and will be in the same situation as the marlins.

As relied on to be the #1 starter for the majority of the year. We don't need that. He's a fine #3, and good for another 200 innings this year. Which is the main thing we need. Take away his last three starts, and he had a pretty decent year.
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Why is it ok to take away his 3 worst starts? is it OK to take away his 3 best starts? his numbers wont look that great if we take away his 3 best starts. If we take away his 3 best starts he didnt have a good year at all.

Hampton had a terrific spring, with zero arm issues. If he makes 30 starts, I think the Braves would be happy.
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yeah, like you said, if he can stay healthy, which in his case is a huge IF. Would you be happy if his arm falls off in may or june?

I never said best, I said deepest. Read it again.
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OK I get it, well by that logic, every team has a lot of depth at SP, because they have 5 or 6 pitchers who can go out and take the mound and be a below average MLB pitcher who will not give them a great chance to win. Why does having a lot of below average pitchers, or players with injury problems, give them depth. that doesnt really give them much depth, does it? I guess we just have different definitions of depth
 
[quote name='ryanbph']I am 32 ...been following baseball since 1986...

I never said the twins/a's/and marlins had the lowest payrolls...I just said they didn't have the highest and maybe I should have been more specific when I said small, meaning no where close to the yanks...and when they won the 2nd world series as unprobable as it was, they had the 20th out of what 30 or so teams.[/quote]

That is about what you would expect a low spending team to finish after calling up someone like cabrera. A phenom like cabrera comes along maybe once every 20 years.


I am a big proponet of shrinking the league...they expanded to fast, and there isn't enough good talent to go around...
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YES, that is the first sensible thing you have said.

They won't get rid of teams, and I think a team in the carolina's would flourish. They have solid attendance at most minor league games.
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What makes you think that charlotte, or another city would be willing to build a new baseball stadium? Or are you saying they should use one of the minor league stadiums?

It is a no win situation no matter how you spin it.

Yes it is minor league, but florida has a shit load of baseball games to go to besides the 2 mlb teams.
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So does california. So do most of the middle american states that have baseball teams. It doesnt seem to affect any of their attendance numbers.

and yes, for a good part of the 90's and early 2000's I didnt' get to watch/follow baseball all that much...I was in college, partying, and working 40 hours a week from 94 - 98...from 98 untill 2003 or so I was working 80 - 90 hours a week..I didn't get to watch baseball all that much, only went to a few games, and didn't get to watch sportcenter/access the web like I have had since 03
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so why are you talking about how brilliant the marlins front office was in the 1990s? or about baseball in general? Go to games. Check some information out on google, why come in and say all this nonsense?

and I think I have made valid points on why you shouldn't count the posting fee into his salary per year...besides the fact MLB doesn't
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why does that 50 million dollars count? if it doesnt count, does that mean that the red sox never paid the money? Regardless of whether it "counts" or not, they red sox are paying 21 million per year to have matsuzaka on their roster,

if you break it down the way mlb does...he what a $10 mill a year player..that is cheaper then gil meche, barry zitto, jason schmidt etc..they made money with the relationship with the asian market on the posting fee, and will continue to make money
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when boston made that deal with matsuzaka, they specifically said, "the most we will give you is 5 years $54 million, if you dont want that contract, go back to japan". They would have paid more for him if not for the posting fee, they made that plenty clear. Is zito overpaid? hell yeah. At least meche and schmidt put up good numbers, of couse schmidt is apparently made of glass.

I never said the twins/a's/and marlins had the lowest payrolls...
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You said that the a's and twins were contenders when their payroll was "REALLY SMALL". It wasnt.

The marlins didnt win because they were somehow great with money, or that they created a blueprint for small market teams.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']I was 12 when I went to the game where JT dragged Dusty's kid off the plate. Still, great series though.[/QUOTE]


I remember that! i remember thinking, why the fuck is dusty bringing his kids into the dugout?

I never really liked barry bonds, i am glad the angels won that series.
 
[quote name='dracula']I remember that! i remember thinking, why the fuck is dusty bringing his kids into the dugout?

I never really liked barry bonds, i am glad the angels won that series.[/quote]

Eh, we love Bonds out here. Dusty's kid was the 'highlight' I guess of the Series.

VELDEZ IS PITCHING. FEARRRR HIM.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Eh, we love Bonds out here. Dusty's kid was the 'highlight' I guess of the Series.

VELDEZ IS PITCHING. FEARRRR HIM.[/QUOTE]

OH man, i actually have sympathy for you frisco fans this year. and shouldnt you be saying "Ph33r him" instead of 'fearrrr him"?

edit, i think people disliked the giants mostly because we disliked bonds. Now, baseball fans are indifferent about the giants. at least i am.
 
[quote name='dracula']right. they finished 80-82. That is about what you would expect a low spending team to finish after calling up someone like cabrera. A phenom like cabrera comes along maybe once every 20 years.[/quote]


they still won...with a below avg payroll



[quote name='dracula']
What makes you think that charlotte, or another city would be willing to build a new baseball stadium? Or are you saying they should use one of the minor league stadiums?

It is a no win situation no matter how you spin it[/quote]

I never said that charlotte would build a stadium..You said where should they go..IMO the carolina's would flourish with a mlb team...as for the city paying for it, while it might be acceptable for most of the country, here in New England the ownership is responsible for building a stadium. IMO that is the way it should be, why the fuck should taxpayers fund a millionaire from making more money





[quote name='dracula']
so why are you talking about how brilliant the marlins front office was in the 1990s? or about baseball in general? Go to games. Check some information out on google, why come in and say all this nonsense?[/quote]

I am sorry, fenway has the highest priced tix in the country and are damm near impossible to buy from the redsox, so then you have to pay an inflated price on the highest priced seasts in the country...1 - 2 games a season with friends is plenty

so I was wrong about the marlins payroll in there first world series...having the top payroll doesn't guarantee a winning season..you yourself said that 8 or 9 teams with below 90 mill payroll have a shot at winning there division this year...I was just commenting on the belief that high payrolls doesn't guarantee a team will win...IMO the mets won't make the playoffs, and there payroll is thru the roof..the yanks are in a similiar situation...

I never said anything about the a's and there stadium..I was talking about the marlins, maybe I wasn't clear, but the post went up after coechsel post...I thought it should have been easy to see I was talking to him without having to quote him..

104/5 is 20.8...last i checked that is less then 21...hey maybe my math is wrong..but use your calculator...and according to msnb in the article I linked using google, it is 103 which is 20.6 per season

What nonsense, besides the mistake about the marlins payroll have I made....The marlins have a bad stadium with a horrible fanbase, why should they stay there...


why would you need to use inflation numbers...it doesn't make a difference..you should look at it in comparable to other teams spending from the same year, and not compared to what it is in todays value

[quote name='dracula']
why does that 50 million dollars count? if it doesnt count, does that mean that the red sox never paid the money? Regardless of whether it "counts" or not, they red sox are paying 21 million per year to have matsuzaka on their roster, [/quote]

it isn't part of his salary..you can't spin it any other way..they made a huge bid to guarantee that he wouldn't go to NY and to get revenue from asia. They accomplished both. They are paying dice k about $10 a season..that is what your revenue list is showing...they made/will make there money back on the posting fee


[quote name='dracula']
when boston made that deal with matsuzaka, they specifically said, "the most we will give you is 5 years $54 million, if you dont want that contract, go back to japan". They would have paid more for him if not for the posting fee, they made that plenty clear. Is zito overpaid? hell yeah. At least meche and schmidt put up good numbers, of couse schmidt is apparently made of glass.
[/quote]

you have no way of proving that if they won the bid with a $35 million bid, that they would have paid him more. They set values on players, and don't pay outside there box. They let pedro, lowe, and damon go because they didnt' feel it was a good value for them. They have the money and could have kept them if they wanted too. I highly doubt they would have cleared $60 mill on dice k on a 5 year deal.

Meche did put up decent numbers, but that lucrative signing by the royals set the rate for mediocre pitchers that offseason...and drove up the value of pitchers across the board
 
[quote name='dracula']why does that 50 million dollars count? if it doesnt count, does that mean that the red sox never paid the money? Regardless of whether it "counts" or not, they red sox are paying 21 million per year to have matsuzaka on their roster,



when boston made that deal with matsuzaka, they specifically said, "the most we will give you is 5 years $54 million, if you dont want that contract, go back to japan". They would have paid more for him if not for the posting fee, they made that plenty clear. Is zito overpaid? hell yeah. At least meche and schmidt put up good numbers, of couse schmidt is apparently made of glass.[/QUOTE]
Matsuzaka's posting fee + salary ($103m) is still cheaper than Barry Zito's contract ($126m).

Its not so much about spending the money as it is about wisely spending the money. Matsuzaka is not only younger, healthier, and better, but half of his cost (the fee) does not apply towards the luxury tax.

The Marlins are currently the biggest disgrace in Baseball. The owner fields a minimal team and profits from revenue sharing.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Matsuzaka's posting fee + salary ($103m) is still cheaper than Barry Zito's contract ($126m).

Its not so much about spending the money as it is about wisely spending the money. Matsuzaka is not only younger, healthier, and better, but half of his cost (the fee) does not apply towards the luxury tax.[/quote]

now THAT is a valid point.

The Marlins are currently the biggest disgrace in Baseball.
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definitely. The steroids scandal is bringing down the game as well. Lets not forget the running hot dogs in milwaukee, they have to be up there. And the chi sox tv commentators.

The owner fields a minimal team and profits from revenue sharing.
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If jeffrey loria played videogames, he would be on the "request a cheapass deal" forum about 10 times a week. hell, he may already be on there.

Baseball needs a salary cap. that way there is a salary floor, as well. Like in the NBA, donald sterling(the clippers owner), he would try to field a team that had a payroll of 5 million total. But the salary minimum is in the $40 millionish so he pays the minimum.

edit If donald sterling played videogames, he would be on here right next to loria, if they are not on here already
 
[quote name='dracula']

Baseball needs a salary cap. that way there is a salary floor, as well. Like in the NBA, donald sterling(the clippers owner), he would try to field a team that had a payroll of 5 million total. But the salary minimum is in the $40 millionish so he pays the minimum.

[/quote]


total agree with salary cap...but the players union is too strong in the MLB...It is the strongest union out of of the pro sports leagues...the mlb can't even pass reasonable drug testing policy due to the players union not agreeing with it...

and it isn't a valid point that the redsox are getting a return on investment of the posting fee but opening up channels in Japan...since the posting fee, they setup a training facility in japan, repaired any bad blood about stealing kevin millar from a japanese league team, and have received revenue from ads/tv/and souveniors from japan that wasn't there before.

As bad as the marlins ownership is in florida, I don't think they would have a fanbase that could support them if they got a newer stadium, and was a middle of the road spending club. I also believe they are a year or 2 away from competing again...They have a lot of young potential stars, that on a big market team would be in AAA or AA that would still be developed

As for your previous comment about cabrera being a once every 20 year type of player, maybe he will be. Many scouts compare him to manny ramirez, and he has came up about as a regular about 13 years ago....arod is not only great offensively, he was a solid ss....pujols has put up solid numbers for 7 years...has 3 more season almost 150 more homers, and a better ba in the 3 more years he has over cabera. He also is only 3 years older..if cabera improved his ba by 20 points per season and added 15 - 20 more homers then he would be in same class as pujols...while pujols isn't a great fielder...it isn't like that is a strong point of cabera
 
[quote name='Ugamer_X']Mussina is turning into the pitcher we were afraid of. He's like an old dog, you love everything he's done for you in the past, but it's time for him to be put down.[/QUOTE]

What has he done for the yanks? He gave most of his best to the Orioles, I only remember a few good seasons with the bombers
 
[quote name='ryanbph']

I think mike lowell is a very hard worker..but without the friendly confines of the green monster, he would not have had the resurgence he has had. Playing 81 games at fenway, a dead pull hitter, has added a couple extra homers and about .030 - .040 points to his average...you take the fact that the monster has helped his average and the fact that it has boosted his confidence you get the player that he has been in a redsox uniform. His last year and a half in florida he was horrible and he was a throw in to get rid of the contract. During his last season in Florida he had no fucking idea why he couldn't hit, and even went to taking out 1 contact lense while batting to see if that would help him. He was a mental mess and looked done as a player.
.[/QUOTE]

Mike Lowell had a big year last year because he stopped being stubborn and started spraying the ball around the field more. Granted the monster gave him some cheap homers. But look at his splits http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3972&type=batting&year=2007
granted the Fenway numbers are better(and who doesn't hit better there?) his away numbers are not all that bad
 
i thought the only reason why the marlins had a high payroll that year is because 1 year baseball owner Wayne Huizenga wanted some sort of championship on his mantle.HE did it, sold them to the scum you know now as Jeffery "Donald Sterling is my idol" Loria..you have what you see. Although I think they will be good in 2-3 years...its not going to be enough to keep the fans in the seats.
 
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