The Auto Industry Bailout Thread

[quote name='willardhaven']
Yet people are still churning out babies while countless people are starving around the world. I would love to hear a religious person's take on the world at large.[/QUOTE]

I am sure you'll disagree, but I believe the population of the world is mostly irrelevant to suffering.

There will always roughly be the same percentage suffering, starving, and in poverty. It's required for the type of economic and social systems in place for most of the world.

The problem isn't population, it's the control mechanisms in place for the population.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I think what many people are worried about is that even with a loan/bail out there still seems to be a solid chance at least one or two of the companies will still fail and where out the bail out funds and still stuck paying unemployment to a bunch of unskilled laborers.

I don't think the bailouts going to get them to stop making crappy cars that people will buy over Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas, Subarus, etc. overnight.[/QUOTE]

If a bail out was done properly though they would stop making crappy cars and compete. Republicans balk at higher fuel standards and green tech being mandatory but if the industry would have adopted these standards a few years ago dont you think that cars might have sold a lot better these last 2 or 3 years? Honestly a bail out doesnt HAVE to be a bad thing....it will end up being a bad thing but it doesnt have to be.
 
It could be a good thing if they given them money with the stipulation that so much of it has to be used to raise MPG, work on plug in hybrids, alternative fuels (Honda has a hydrogen car coming out soon) etc.

But like you said, the republicans are too stupid and stubborn to put a bill like that through.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I am sure you'll disagree, but I believe the population of the world is mostly irrelevant to suffering.

There will always roughly be the same percentage suffering, starving, and in poverty. It's required for the type of economic and social systems in place for most of the world.

The problem isn't population, it's the control mechanisms in place for the population.[/quote]

I don't completely disagree since I was just kind of ranting, shooting from the hip there.

I completely disagree with accepting the economic and social status quo.

I don't want to derail the topic though, so forget that I brought it up.

Anyway, government bailouts are not an answer, they just put off the inevitable. DMK points out one of the major problems of the U.S. and the world at large: disproportionate earnings.

We need some kind of revolution...
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']What about the fact that the 200-300 million people are going to draw $100s of billions more from the government and government programs such as food stamps and unemployment then the bail out would cost us in the first place.[/quote]

I'm against that too and I'm sick of settling for the lesser of two evils.
 
[quote name='rickonker']I'm against that too and I'm sick of settling for the lesser of two evils.[/QUOTE]

Too bad. Thats all you can do is settle for the lesser of 2 evils less you want to create a third lesser evil or are willing to do as Williard is suggesting and tear the system to pieces(which I am all up for but the US population as a whole is not yet).
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Too bad. Thats all you can do is settle for the lesser of 2 evils less you want to create a third lesser evil or are willing to do as Williard is suggesting and tear the system to pieces(which I am all up for but the US population as a whole is not yet).[/quote]

It's simple for me; I oppose both evil options. If you're suggesting I should advocate for the auto bailout to try to avoid another kind of bailout, I'd say that's a waste of time. I doubt willard and I would agree on the actual solution though.
 
I think it's clear that the bailout is the worse of the two evils. Because you are rewarding, thus essentially planning for, failure and future failure.

Lots of people on unemployment sure will suck. But I have more faith in those people to find and/or create something good and useful and productive with their time than I do 3 corporate giants that have proven to be incompetent.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
Lots of people on unemployment sure will suck. But I have more faith in those people to find and/or create something good and useful and productive with their time than I do 3 corporate giants that have proven to be incompetent.[/quote]

Logic and basic human consideration have no place in a corporate government silly.

But yeah, I agree.
 
I am not against giving GM some help to prop them up, but they should be forced to renegotiate all union contracts and cancel or vastly reduce their programs where they pay union employees not to work. They should get rid of pensions, and get rid of health insurance for their retirees, etc... (I mean, who else, other than gov't employees gets such perks)... if they do these things it may be actually economically feasible for them to build smaller cars with less markup.
 
[quote name='BigT']I am not against giving GM some help to prop them up, but they should be forced to renegotiate all union contracts and cancel or vastly reduce their programs where they pay union employees not to work. They should get rid of pensions, and get rid of health insurance for their retirees, etc... (I mean, who else, other than gov't employees gets such perks)... if they do these things it may be actually economically feasible for them to build smaller cars with less markup.[/QUOTE]

Eliminating pensions ends up harming people who've done nothing wrong, nor contributed to the currently poor state of the auto industry.

It's akin to advocating that rape victims get chastity belts so they won't get raped again.
 
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