The Christmas Creature Wrestling Thread

That's a pretty frightening thought, though it's something we probably all could've guessed.

I'm very happy about those Smackdown spoilers, by the way.

In regards to one of them, though... why do they keep putting guys that need momentum against Big Show? I love Show, don't get me wrong, but he really isn't a good person for anyone to feud with. Really, how many people come out of a feud with him looking strong? It's sort of like feuding with Taker... it seems high profile, but it usually kills any forward momentum you had.
 
Can't say I agree on the UT comparison - Jeff Hardy really made his mark as a singles wrestler in a ladder match v. Taker in 2002(ish) on Raw.

Before Cena and Orton, it was Triple H, Batista, and 1-2 other people who were literally in every PPV main event since like 2005 or earlier.

I think about how few PPVs I order anymore. The last WWE PPV show I ordered was ECW One Night Stand 2006. I have not ordered a single WWE show in almost 5 years. I haven't ordered a TNA pay per view in roughly the same period save for one-off in 2009.

WWE's PPV business is down 10%+ from 2009-2010. They're not doing porrly in the sense that they're not making money, but WWE is on a slow downward arc, business-wise. That's in spite of the entire 2000's being a decade of the "downward cycle" (as people in the business like to fool themselves is a real guaranteed thing) from the Attitude/WCW/ECW era.

(also, going forward, let's call it that, because it sure wasn't just "WWF ATTITUDE" that was great during that period).

From a fan's standpoint, it's easy to see that WWE is not the dominant PPV behemoth it once was. UFC is kicking the living fuck out of WWE, with over half of 2009's UFC PPV events selling more PPV buys than Wrestlemania. WWE staved off this decline financially by kicking their perpetual fans in the dick - there are a group of knuckleheads who will buy any WWE PPV no matter what - probably to shut up their screaming bastard of a 7-year old. They kick those fans - the loyal fans - in the dick by raising PPV costs to $45 per show - per shitty, throwaway I-bet-you-can't-tell-me-the-main-event(s)-of-this-year's-Elimination-Chamber PPV. They're charging fewer fans more and more to be fans. That's not a sustainable model. This year's WM sold fewer PPV buys than any WM since WM 20 - and that trend will certainly continue, given the lack of star power going into WM27.

But it's easy to sympathize with WWE. They're making money, and that's all that matters, yes? They are afraid to take big chances and risk that profit; it's easy, and lazy, to avoid taking big chances to improve the company in the long run. It's the old adage about asking people if they want $50 now or $100 in a year - almost everyone will take the 50, even if it's more sensible that we wait for the 100.

I gotta spoiler this since it involves SD:
You can see why creative swapped Morrison with Orton now. Miz is an unproven commodity as champ, Edge is not over, and SD lacks babyfaces. They had to move someone new into that title slot for this month's title match. Another Edge/Kane match would have been too much, so much so that even WWE saw that. But they didn't want to risk putting too many big changes in the main event scene - Miz/Morrison and Ziggler/Edge. I can somewhat sympathize with that - they want to make sure the knuckle-dragging mouthbreathing fans who cheer for Orton order the show. But they also get to move Ziggler into the main event scene, and Morrison gets a semi-bump due to his match Monday. So for WWE, you can see how Creative saw they painted themselves into a corner with two main event feuds that didn't spend enough time in the oven, so to speak, and responded accordingly with Orton.

Let's be honest, this year's WM is going to be super shitty.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I gotta spoiler this since it involves SD:
You can see why creative swapped Morrison with Orton now. Miz is an unproven commodity as champ, Edge is not over, and SD lacks babyfaces. They had to move someone new into that title slot for this month's title match. Another Edge/Kane match would have been too much, so much so that even WWE saw that. But they didn't want to risk putting too many big changes in the main event scene - Miz/Morrison and Ziggler/Edge. I can somewhat sympathize with that - they want to make sure the knuckle-dragging mouthbreathing fans who cheer for Orton order the show. But they also get to move Ziggler into the main event scene, and Morrison gets a semi-bump due to his match Monday. So for WWE, you can see how Creative saw they painted themselves into a corner with two main event feuds that didn't spend enough time in the oven, so to speak, and responded accordingly with Orton.
[/QUOTE]

I thought Morrison was getting "the Jeff Hardy rub", due to Hardy's semi-push into the main event scene at Royal Rumble 2008 vs. Randy Orton. Hardy lost that match (as I expected Morrison to), but it's looking more like
Ziggler
is getting that rub instead of Morrison this year. I can't complain though, I like them both. I wish they would figure out what the fuck they want to do with Morrison though, because the more they toy with his pushes, the weaker they make him look -- and sooner or later, he'll be getting the MVP/Shelton Benjamin treatment.
 
hydro - I wouldn't say Morrison isn't getting the rub at all, you have to remember Jeff got the push in January but didn't win the title until December of that year. I think they're pushing
Ziggler
as well, but I doubt Morrison is returning to mid-card hell.

myke - Yeah, it does look like WM is going to be lackluster show this year. Especially since it looks like we won't have UT, HBK, or a Money in the Bank ladder match.

With Orton and
Ziggler
both presumably in title matches at the Rumble now. Who would you say the odds on favorite is? They were two of my top picks. Now it looks more like Cena unless they actually do something with ADR or potentially Morrison.
 
Cena's only won one Royal Rumble, so Cena. There's nobody else who stands a chance - remember, balance WWE's reluctance to make major changes with their need to make major changes. No way anyone other than Cena will win.
 
The question is, are the other people in matches going to also be in the Rumble? Cuz if they are, I'm saying Nexus gangs up on Cena, eliminates him, then lets Punk win. Maybe Wade's involved here somewhere also.
 
Honestly, I don't think Cena will win the Rumble. Why, you ask?

He'll win in the Elimination Chamber, and enter Wrestlemania as champion.

He's been in the last 3 WM main events as the challenger, and the 2 prior to that as champion.

There's really no fucking way he enters as challenger and wins the belt AGAIN, right? ... RIGHT?!?

Also, came across this in my youtube escapades. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhzwhAYy5hA
 
You guys do bring up an intriguing point - of all the "on the cusp of the main event" guys they need to elevate to be WM main event ready, CM Punk is awfully close.

Which means CM Punk in a WM main event. I'll honestly say I never saw that coming when I first saw him years and years ago - and even when he joined WWE, I figured they'd fuck him up like they do everybody else. It wasn't until his feud with Jeff Hardy that it struck me that WWE really saw something in Punk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iBpKt2ITYM

1) TNA wrestlers in wrestling matches!
2) Holy fuck, Manabu Nakanishi and Strongman are HUUUUUUGE
3) Hector Garza sighting!
4) Masato Tanaka sighting - and man, he's in great shape from the looks of things.
5) WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUCK at that diving spot around :30 in?

I'd love to watch this show. I may just have to get back into puro a bit more.
 
Hiroshi Tanahashi might do a better Orton pose than Randy does

Also.... Jeff? How is he even able to leave the country in his current situation?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iBpKt2ITYM

1) TNA wrestlers in wrestling matches!
2) Holy fuck, Manabu Nakanishi and Strongman are HUUUUUUGE
3) Hector Garza sighting!
4) Masato Tanaka sighting - and man, he's in great shape from the looks of things.
5) WHAT THE FUUUUUUUUUCK at that diving spot around :30 in?

I'd love to watch this show. I may just have to get back into puro a bit more.[/QUOTE]

That looks epic. I haven't been into anything puro since the early 00's.

Also, Yuji Nagata sighting!

Masato Tanaka is one of the toughest motherfuckers I've ever seen. He's taken more botched moves from Mike Awesome than anyone I've seen -- hell, even Vampiro was one and done. Haha.
 
Yeah, Tanaka's been in great shape the last many years.

For those of you who have missed the last 11 years of puro, watch Kobashi-Nagata from NOAH from, I think, 2003. It's a stellar match. And, one of the best matches of 2010 is Goto-Nakamura 1 from G1 CLIMAX 2010. I recommend it over most matches from 2010 because it features, one of my favorites, Shinsuke Nakamura.

Wrestle Kingdom 5 is gonna be great. Devitt and Ibushi are going to tear down the house, and probably put on one of the best matches of 2011--in January.

Prince Devitt is probably my favorite wrestler in the world. That says a lot considering how puro promos work. He simply won me over with his wrestling. Ya know how Jericho and Benoit were the big foreign talents in the 1990s? That's what Devitt is, right now. I have yet to see him cut a sports entertainment-type promo, but his ring work is out-of-this-world. I cannot praise him enough.

Oh, and Nakamura-Shiozaki is another match to keep an eye on. Nakamura plays a perfect heel--and he does most of it through his wrestling--which is incredible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNy3PfLzGcQ

Keep an eye out for the Boma Ye at the end. I love that move.

Edit: WK5 was yesterday. Ha! Oops. I gotta watch those matches!
 
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hydro - i hadnt thought about that. i do kinda hate the option of cena v punk at WM because cena wont lose. (see myke and his "mouthbreather" defense) trying to think of anyone else, if he was healthy enough i wouldnt mind seeing christian win to challenge edge for the title. remember how good their match on raw was last year, id love to see that on a bigger built up scale.

there is another option, the rumble has been used as a super secret return and win option. has anyone presented the triple h return and win option yet?

neociso - sorry i kinda reverted back to my old no caps and no punctuation today
 
Not really too much of a fan of them Americanizing it with the hype video but it is interesting to see how much things have changed since I last followed in '03.
 
I was listening to the Wrestling Observer/FFW podcast, and one of the hosts on there was going on and on about how Mr. Kennedy sucks. He mentioned that Kennedy fucked up big time in some tag match involving him, Orton, HBK, and HHH, where it got to the point that all three other guys were visually and genuinely pissed off in the ring. The host could not get over the fact at how bad Kennedy messed up. He went on a rant about it too. He said after that match he knew Kennedy was done in WWE.

He also said that after Kennedy botched that move big time on Orton, Orton went to the back and said how much Kennedy sucks, and then HHH, HBK, and Cena all came up and vouched for that.

Can anyone elaborate on this? I can't seem to recall what tag match that was, or that particular backstage incident.
 
[quote name='Blackout']I was listening to the Wrestling Observer/FFW podcast, and one of the hosts on there was going on and on about how Mr. Kennedy sucks. He mentioned that Kennedy fucked up big time in some tag match involving him, Orton, HBK, and HHH, where it got to the point that all three other guys were visually and genuinely pissed off in the ring. The host could not get over the fact at how bad Kennedy messed up. He went on a rant about it too. He said after that match he knew Kennedy was done in WWE.

He also said that after Kennedy botched that move big time on Orton, Orton went to the back and said how much Kennedy sucks, and then HHH, HBK, and Cena all came up and vouched for that.

Can anyone elaborate on this? I can't seem to recall what tag match that was, or that particular backstage incident.[/QUOTE]

I don't know if everybody vouched for Orton but it was basically Kennedy's first match back after being injured and he dropped Orton (who was the champion at the time) wrong almost re-injuring Orton's collar bone

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3UbJk7ciRA
 
[quote name='Blackout']I was listening to the Wrestling Observer/FFW podcast, and one of the hosts on there was going on and on about how Mr. Kennedy sucks. He mentioned that Kennedy fucked up big time in some tag match involving him, Orton, HBK, and HHH, where it got to the point that all three other guys were visually and genuinely pissed off in the ring. The host could not get over the fact at how bad Kennedy messed up. He went on a rant about it too. He said after that match he knew Kennedy was done in WWE.

He also said that after Kennedy botched that move big time on Orton, Orton went to the back and said how much Kennedy sucks, and then HHH, HBK, and Cena all came up and vouched for that.

Can anyone elaborate on this? I can't seem to recall what tag match that was, or that particular backstage incident.[/QUOTE]

The latter of the two was Kennedys first match back after injury when RAW moved to LA after the whole NBA Playoff incident and Kennedy hit Orton with what I believe was a very sloppy suplex and this was considered the straw that broke the camels back as he was later released that week.
 
Yeah, I remember that match where he almost messed up Orton. Did anyone see that other tag match though? The host made it sound like an absolute train wreck.
 
[quote name='Blackout']Yeah, I remember that match where he almost messed up Orton. Did anyone see that other tag match though? The host made it sound like an absolute train wreck.[/QUOTE]

I don't know when it could have been unless they had a house show after that Raw incident I posted.
 
While everyone points to that incident, it had to be a combination of factors. Kennedy seems to harp on the fact that 'Randy got him fired', which I find hard to believe. I mean, really, as much as Orton is the 2nd in line to Cena, does anyone think he has enough power to go into the back and just have someone fired?

I've always assumed that some combination of higher up guys simply weren't comfortable with him in the ring, and it eventually gave. It also never helped that he seemed to be riding on the "Rey Mysterio Train of Perpetual Injury". Literally every single time that Kennedy got a push, he went down with an injury. Christ, his fault or not, the bulk of his last 3 months of TNA storyline have been ABOUT him being injured. It's tough to put your company in the hands of someone like that.

It's also pretty jarring to think that he went from a great program with Taker, a ringing endorsement and mentoring relationshp with Stone Cold, and one misdiagnosis away from being WWE Champion to being dismissed from the company. It's why I refuse to believe it's as simple as 'Randy got me fired because he's a whiny bitch'.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']I don't know when it could have been unless they had a house show after that Raw incident I posted.[/QUOTE]

The host said it happened before the Orton incident. It must have been televised too.
 
I don't see Triple H winning the Rumble...returning and tossing Sheamus? absolutely. Then he can get thrown out by Punk/Nexus. This sets up the Elimination Chamber match with Sheamus/Triple H/Miz/Orton/Punk/Cena to keep them from having their one on one matches too early.

Morrison can win the Rumble and I guess sit out EC, since I hate when they give away the Mania main event the month before.

On the Raw side Wrestlemania would look like..

WWE Championship - The Miz vs. John Morrison vs. Randy Orton
Cena vs. CM Punk
Triple H vs. Sheamus
US/IC Title Unification - Daniel Bryan vs. Alberto Del Rio
 
I can't explain the logic, but I see Triple H as being above winning the Rumble. As in, his persona is so big that it would be beneath him to be in it at all, let alone win and go to Wrestlemania.

I don't like that idea, but hey, I'm just reacting to what WWE has taught me to think of HHH.
 
I read the SmackDown spoilers. I think the news it contains concerning
Wade Barrett
is fairly significant. Apparently,
Barrett attacked the Big Show, after the number one contenders featuring McIntyre-Show-Cody-Dolph. Barrett is said to be joining the SmackDown show, and not feuding with CM Punk. I'm glad that Barrett will still be a heel. Guy is a natural heel. We definitely don't need another awkward face, like Randy Orton.
 
Dammit, Orndorff is one of my favorite old-school guys. His work against Hogan was as good as Piper's and really needs more recognition. Get well soon.
 
I'm curious if they are actually pushing Drew McIntyre again, or if they are just aiming to have him make out with Kelly Kelly on TV for a while to stick it to his wife.
 
Here's hoping for a good diagnosis for Mr. #1derful.

Chase, do you remember which thread it was in that you posted all of those puro links?
 
[quote name='diddy310']I'm curious if they are actually pushing Drew McIntyre again, or if they are just aiming to have him make out with Kelly Kelly on TV for a while to stick it to his wife.[/QUOTE]


WWE must really want to push him. Vince and Co. would never be that vindictive!

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
 
[quote name='neocisco']For those with HDNet, can anyone confirm that ROH did not have a show this last Monday?[/QUOTE]
ROH did. And it was pretty good.

Benjamin and Haas wrestled some young guys in a squash match. Mark Briscoe wrestled Edwards for the TV Title, some new guy named Mondo wrestled Grizzly Redwood and Castagnoli wrestled Homicide.
 
Barret on sd is hella lame. I really wanted to see cena/wade take on CMexus. Hopefully wade makes nexus wolfpac in the next few weeks and storms back on raw
 
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[quote name='steve nash']*ruins point of spoiler tags*[/QUOTE]

We've all been using spoiler tags for a reason
 
I'll second mogamer with that ROH was very good this week. Of course it helps doing the show in a different city with a fresher crowd that isn't used to the routine of a typical ROH taping.
 
I realized I forgot to mention this while the No Mercy discussion was happening, but AKI now exists as Syn Sophia. And yes, people do keep e-mailing them about making more wrestling games, but they have said that no studios are asking for them.
 
[quote name='Mr. Beef']I realized I forgot to mention this while the No Mercy discussion was happening, but AKI now exists as Syn Sophia. And yes, people do keep e-mailing them about making more wrestling games, but they have said that no studios are asking for them.[/QUOTE]

One would think they could take all these emails and, I don't know, take them to a studio and talk about making one. Even if it's unlicensed, make it Fire Pro-style.
 
@Mr. Beef & HydroX: That's a shame, the Aki engine always seemed like a pretty versatile engine to me. I imagined, back in the late 90s, that it could very well have been used for different types of games besides wrestling.

They really could just port the engine as a bare bones, create-a-game type arcade title like LBP for PS3. They'd just need to add community rating-type moderation and they wouldn't even need to put in work after if they're lazy, I'm sure it'd be a hit. It would hardly cost them a thing, would turn them a nice profit and would shut everyone up for good.

It sucks when game companies don't listen to their fans. I'm sure a lot of people want a new Aki engine wrestling game. What has that company done lately, I could've swore I read R2R, but didn't that game suck(not judging, I didn't play it)?
 
They made a couple of Ultimate Muscle games that were JPN only after FFNY. They pretty much only make portable games now. They still have the engine buried in their archives, ready to be used at any time.

I can understand the Smackdown games not using them (to an extent) since those games are going for the "sim" look. But for the other games coming down the pipeline (WWE Arcade, or whatever it's called), they could easily hire Aki/SS and make something special. Or better yet, re-release the older games on the Virtual Console or straight up remake them for XBL/PSN/WiiWare. I would pay full price with a smile on my face if that happened.
 
[quote name='Stonecoldfreak1']The games still sell and it's all they care about.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. They go w/ a new developer and they're going to put a wrench in the plans of an annual title to release - which means lost revenue.

Moreover, wrestling isn't all that popular right now, so it's not really worth the risk to invest the money in a license that's tepid-but-profitable.

THQ did try that w/ Xbox, and we got the super-super-dismal Raw, Raw 2, and WM21 out of it. Risk ain't all it's cracked up to be.

For all the complaints about SvR, is it that you think it's bad, or you think it's stale? If it's the latter, consider yourselves fortunate, as that means you're savvy enough of a consumer to wait to purchase the game at $30 or less instead of $60 at release. Hell, I just picked up SvR 2010 for 360 for like $11, and for that price, I sure enjoy it. Odd thing, though: I swore they had DLC for SvR 2010 - but the 360 marketplace has nothing for any title other than 2011. The DLC wasn't PS3 exclusive, was it?

For SvR 2011: do any of you know if the dreaded CAW "crotch blur" is finally gone from this version? It has been a constant nuisance in trying to make decent CAW tights (e.g., Razor Ramon) for years and years.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Bingo. They go w/ a new developer and they're going to put a wrench in the plans of an annual title to release - which means lost revenue.

Moreover, wrestling isn't all that popular right now, so it's not really worth the risk to invest the money in a license that's tepid-but-profitable.

THQ did try that w/ Xbox, and we got the super-super-dismal Raw, Raw 2, and WM21 out of it. Risk ain't all it's cracked up to be.

For all the complaints about SvR, is it that you think it's bad, or you think it's stale? If it's the latter, consider yourselves fortunate, as that means you're savvy enough of a consumer to wait to purchase the game at $30 or less instead of $60 at release. Hell, I just picked up SvR 2010 for 360 for like $11, and for that price, I sure enjoy it. Odd thing, though: I swore they had DLC for SvR 2010 - but the 360 marketplace has nothing for any title other than 2011. The DLC wasn't PS3 exclusive, was it?

For SvR 2011: do any of you know if the dreaded CAW "crotch blur" is finally gone from this version? It has been a constant nuisance in trying to make decent CAW tights (e.g., Razor Ramon) for years and years.[/QUOTE]

2010 only had Stone Cold. Last I checked (like a week ago), he was still up. If they've taken him down, it literally was in the past few days.

Anyway, I'd definitely call the SvR series stale. They're honestly not bad, which baffles me when people call for a new developer every year. Maybe it's a symptom of still even being a WWE fan now, since it's the same thing with the actual product... it's a comfort thing. It's safe and inoffensive. I play it out of habit, even though I cop to actually being excited about 2011.

Problem is, you hand the reigns to a new developer and it's a total crapshoot. For every No Mercy and Day of Reckoning, there's 15 Thunders, Impacts, AAAs, Backstage Assaults, WM21s, and Hardcore Revolutions. Really, outside of Smackdown, Day of Reckoning (both) was the last time I was really impressed by a wrestling game. I think that's what worries me... there's enough good in SvR that I'm not sure that tossing it away is a great idea.

I realize that with that mindset, I'm part of the problem. However, unless the former AKI team is going to announce that the new WWE game is nothing short on an HD revamp of No Mercy, I'm not sold. Honestly, outside of them, name a developer to hand the licence to. It'll end up at a big company, and I'm not sure that's going to help. Activision, EA, etc. aren't going to put their best teams on a wrestling game, which is the next point...

Wrestling doesn't really sell anymore. It's not a hot commodity. The games perform decently, but the market is nowhere near other sports games, and that's always going to hamper development and marketing.

I'm not sure that all made sense together, but fuck it.
 
Didn't 2010 have Vader, Bourne, DiBiase, and The Bushwhackers too?

Edit: I take that back, that was 2009. Doink as well.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Bingo. They go w/ a new developer and they're going to put a wrench in the plans of an annual title to release - which means lost revenue.

Moreover, wrestling isn't all that popular right now, so it's not really worth the risk to invest the money in a license that's tepid-but-profitable.

THQ did try that w/ Xbox, and we got the super-super-dismal Raw, Raw 2, and WM21 out of it. Risk ain't all it's cracked up to be.

For all the complaints about SvR, is it that you think it's bad, or you think it's stale? If it's the latter, consider yourselves fortunate, as that means you're savvy enough of a consumer to wait to purchase the game at $30 or less instead of $60 at release. Hell, I just picked up SvR 2010 for 360 for like $11, and for that price, I sure enjoy it. Odd thing, though: I swore they had DLC for SvR 2010 - but the 360 marketplace has nothing for any title other than 2011. The DLC wasn't PS3 exclusive, was it?

For SvR 2011: do any of you know if the dreaded CAW "crotch blur" is finally gone from this version? It has been a constant nuisance in trying to make decent CAW tights (e.g., Razor Ramon) for years and years.[/QUOTE]

Hey, I liked Raw and WM21! They had their issues, but I had more fun with those than any of the next gen Smackdown games.
 
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