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[quote name='Survivalism']Let's completely no-sell the WWE champion's finisher. Nice one, Cena.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't be right unless he did....

remember...THIS IS CENA! Its in his contract to no-sell everything in sight!
 
[quote name='PhrostByte']Second rate diamond cutter! Feel. The. BANG![/QUOTE]


Truth!

[quote name='Survivalism']Let's completely no-sell the WWE champion's finisher. Nice one, Cena.[/QUOTE]


Can you imagine the collective heat Cena would get from burned Cena fans, Orton fans, and smart-fans-who-would-still-hate-Cena-regardless-of-a-heel turn for no-selling every single move? That could be incredible.

Unwise business decision, perhaps, but I'm still hyping myself up for a Cena heel turn at Survivor Series.

P.S. I loved Piper's promo with Cena. The difference in passion and delivery between Rowdy Roddy Piper and John Cena is like night and day.
 
So, predictions for Sunday?

I'm going to go with Cena helps Barrett win, then turns on Barrett and accidentally helps The Miz win the belt.

Orton can punt Cena on Raw the next night and send him off to do his movie. He can turn when he comes back.
 
Well, whatever happens Sunday, it had better deliver because it seems like the only thing they're really selling the show on.

I find it kind of sad, by the way, that Roddy Piper sold this storyline better in 5 minutes than WWE has in 5 months.

Overall, I was a fan of that Raw. It was great fan service for those of us who hate the current product, but it also had a good mix of newer stuff that wasn't terrible. It didn't really help build interest in the PPV that much, but WWE has made it pretty clear that you're only ordering this if you care about the Barrett/Cena/Orton story. Ultimately, I enjoyed this more than any other Raw in years, and I admit there are a few times where I honestly marked out (Sexual Chocolate, motherfucker), and it felt good to actually be honest-to-god excited to watch wrestling again. I had that stupid shit-eating 5-year-old grin on my face for a lot of this, and I wish WWE could find a way to inspire that every week.
 
[quote name='diddy310']So, predictions for Sunday?

I'm going to go with Cena helps Barrett win, then turns on Barrett and accidentally helps The Miz win the belt.

Orton can punt Cena on Raw the next night and send him off to do his movie. He can turn when he comes back.[/QUOTE]


B-b-but I want it (heel turn) now!

That is a more reasonable estimation, Diddy. In the span it would take John Cena to leave, film his film, and return, the Miz could cash-in his title shot, win, then lose it to whoever. I could have sworn I read that WWE is thinking about extending the Nexus angle to 'Mania. Miz-Orton-Barrett for a few months works. Cena returns, turns, then feuds with Orton, with the feud hitting its apex at WrestleMania 27.

Sheamus-John Morrison is interesting. This is a good feud for both participants. Sheamus fills in the gaps in his character that WWE missed by rushing him into the main event. John Morrison become active, and bides his time until a return to the inevitable Miz-Morrison feud.

I believe it's safe to assume that Santino and Kozlov will be fed to, the inactive-even-though-they-have-a-match-on-Sunday, Justin Gabriel and Heath Slater. I'd love to see them win the belts, even if they soon drop it back to Gabriel-Slater.

Chris Masters looks so out-of-place amongst the others in the graphics for the traditional Survivor Series elimination tag match. So does Tyler Reks, but at least he looks like a killer hobo that the heels hire when they need someone to do some stabbing.

And 007, you're right: Piper sold the story better in five minutes than anyone else did in five months. Thanks to Piper, I actually ended up really hyped for the main event. John Cena definitely emotes better as a heel. He sounded so bland compared to Hot Rod.
 
The Cena heel turn is being saved until they have some sort of super face to work off of Cena... who is it? Is it someone already in the company? Miz or Bryan? Who knows...
 
[quote name='007']Well, whatever happens Sunday, it had better deliver because it seems like the only thing they're really selling the show on.

I find it kind of sad, by the way, that Roddy Piper sold this storyline better in 5 minutes than WWE has in 5 months.

Overall, I was a fan of that Raw. It was great fan service for those of us who hate the current product, but it also had a good mix of newer stuff that wasn't terrible. It didn't really help build interest in the PPV that much, but WWE has made it pretty clear that you're only ordering this if you care about the Barrett/Cena/Orton story. Ultimately, I enjoyed this more than any other Raw in years, and I admit there are a few times where I honestly marked out (Sexual Chocolate, motherfucker), and it felt good to actually be honest-to-god excited to watch wrestling again. I had that stupid shit-eating 5-year-old grin on my face for a lot of this, and I wish WWE could find a way to inspire that every week.[/QUOTE]

winner winner chicken dinner, though I did turn the show off when I realized the final segment was the Piper's Pit. It wasn't a great show as a wrestling product, but it was the sort of thing that's fan service like Family Guy is - it triggers the part of your brain that marks out for memories (a-HA! THEY SAID CAPTAIN AND TENNILLE! I REMEMBER THEM! THAT'S FUNNY!). To that end, it was fine.

I think what WWE still needs is fewer, longer matches - including those with consequences. Survivor Series should be a "Big Deal" PPV, not a "big fuckin' deal" PPV - yet it largely is (not helped by the deluge of multi-person elimination tags in past months' shows and PPVS).

I really enjoyed this show, but please don't think that I suddenly have faith in the WWE product - though I'm sure you did no such thing.
 
Loved the show, was great to see all the legends. And the return of JR to call Danielson/Swagger was wonderful. Also really liked Santino/Koslov tonight.

Also, anyone see Shannon Moore's title? Same people that did Hardy's made him one too. It won't be used in TNA though.

DILLIGAFweb-12-916x435.jpg

I actually kinda like his. :p Shame it's Hardy's that we see on TV.
 
The show dragged on quite a bit at times, but I did love the old school motif - they went a bit overboard by having EVERYONE wear the "WWE Licensed Old School Gear", but the Dusty dance-off WITH AKSANA DANCING WHILE TRAPPED UNDER A NET, Danielson-Swagger WITH JR ON COMMENTARY, and closing angle with Piper were fantastic. Piper was fucking buys with his promo. Dude ruled it, he put the WWE Title over as THE biggest thing in the world, and that's something they haven't done in a long time. It's amazing how much more effective the approach of "make it seem important" is than "it doesn't matter - everyone gets it at some point" is. He would be perfect as a manager for a guy who can get it done in the ring, but can't talk - like a Gabriel, but perhaps someone like Husky, with some history in the business due to his heritage, would be better.

Mae calling Laycool sluts and bitches was awesome - I was astonished that didn't get bleeped out. That's one area the PG approach has helped - making cussing seem memorable. And she got have to have one more "match" of some sort in yet another decade - with this being the NINTH DECADE she's competed in. Regardless of match quality, that's pretty amazing. WWE really a classy job using the legends well, and I loved that they tried to have them give rubs to new guys - using Tito, who hasn't aged much at all, and Chavo Classic, to try and give their stamp of approval on Alberto was smart. JR did his best to sell Swagger and Danielson as being special when the point of doing so wasn't being undercut by Cole. I did mark out huge when JR thwacked his hat though - that ruled. Still, I hope that wasn't the last match JR calls. He was awesome tonight. I'd say take Grisham off of SD, and Cole while you're at it since he just takes away from J.R's work, and have Striker and J.R. do SD.

This was an amusing show that was more effective at selling the PPV's main event than I thought it would be, and had tons of fun stuff in it, like the return of Sexual Chocolate, Tony's rambling stories, and the Lord Alfred Hayes soundbytes - probably would have been better to just use stock ones than try and make new ones with an impersonator though, as that sounded awful. Cody demanding that Goldust not breathe on him ruled, and man did Aksana amuse me greatly by dancing with that goofy net on her. I liked them having Ted Jr. refuse the Million Dollar title again. Shame he didn't completely denounce his hand me down gimmick entirely, as he still had his autotuned theme when he attacked Danielson.

Screens -



















Quotes -
Cole - Tonight is VINTAGE RAW!
Cole - Here’s Mel Phillips - or Justin Roberts.
Gene - Tonight, Raw goes OLD SCHOOL.
Bob Orton - Gene, Randy’s not here yet. I think he didn’t know we were starting an hour early, but I talked to him on his cell, and he’ll be here shortly. I don’t care about John Cena’s career - if it ends, that’s fantastic. I don’t care if Randy gives Barrett the RKO then turns out and gives Cena the RKO.
Barrett - Listen carefully old man, your prediction about your son’s chances Is as phony as that cast on your warm. I’m gonna beat Randy Orton and become something you never were - WWE Champion. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t owe anything to the old school - I got here through my own hard work and Initiative. It’s going to come to fruition on Sunday when Cena raises my hand and awards me as WWE Champion. I want you healthy to see what I accomplish on Sunday. You too, Okerlund!
(Miz’s theme hits) Cole - FINALLY, SOME SANITY!
Miz - Really? It’s just that simple, is it? Last week, when I told Orton I’d be on his team, he didn’t thank you. He just stared me down with those squinty Orton eyes - like those. That was a bad move, because I changed the landscape of the main event, just like I can change the landscape of WWE by cashing in my contract. Maybe, just maybe, I might do It when Randy arrives here tonight. That would change things for you, Barrett, because then your match wouldn’t be for the WWE Title, and Cena will be in Nexus forever.
Cena - You manage to ruin everything you’re involved in - you’re not cashing anything in tonight. Wade, tonight, I’m gonna protect you. It’s not for you, it’s for me. Miz will cash in nothing tonight because I challenge him to a match right here tonight. The normal Miz is looking to Riley and complain, but Miz, If you’re as awesome as you say you are, accept!
Miz - I ACCEPT!
Gene - THERE YA HAVE IT, MIZ-CENA TONIGHT!
King - You can’t get anymore old school than Vickie.
Cole - I like our outfits - VINTAGE REGALIA!
Cole - Dolph reminds me of Rick Rude, who does Mark Henry remind you of?
King - Bruno Sammartino?
Cole - What!?
Crowd - CHOCOLATE! CHOCOLATE!
Cole - The refs are even wearing old school outfits - they look like Chippendales dancers.
DH - You know Tyson, my dad and the Dynamite Kid didn’t get along all the time, but. They still. Became one of the. best tag teams in history.
Kidd - Yes, I know. That’s why tonight, we’re going to out there and win.
Atlas - Ya know, that reminds me of me and Rocky Johnson. Sometimes, he’d want to go out in front of me, or behind, we’d go to the gym, he’d want to do pulldowns, I’d want to do squats. He thought I was strange, I don’t know why (uses WD40 on arms). Rocky loved his chicken. He took the skin off, I didn’t, I thought it was SKIN-A-LICIOUS! (goes to break)
(show comes back)Atlas - Sometimes, I’d take the interstate, he’d want to take the scenic routes. (Tatsu mimes suicide by stabbing himself with a sword)
Gene -Randy, I’m gonna ask you the same thing I asked your dad - do you think you’re gonna leave Survivor Series as WWE Champion?
Orton - Well... (Truth interrupts)
Gene - They selling these blazers yet? This one’s a peach.
Cole - There’s Harvey Wippleman - former Women’s champion.
King - That was Harvina - his sister.
Brawler - I EXPECTED A STANDING OVATION WHEN I CAME TO THE RING, AND I EXPECT ONE WHEN I WIN!
Harvey - THE KING OF OLD SCHOOL WANTS TO ISSUE A CHALLENGE TO ANYONE IN THE NEW SCHOOL!
(Zeke comes out)Cole - Brawler, welcome to 2011!
Cole - In 2011, Brawler’s In a match.
Cole - The mighty Brawler has struck out.
Cole - I’VE RECEIVED AN E-MAIL, AND I QUOTE!
King - This is old school - before laptops. Barrett, you will face R-Truth to show that you are worthy of being WWE Champion.
Harris - We got your back.
Barrett - I appreciate that, Husky.
Miz - You always think you’re one step ahead of me, don’t you Cena? You’re thinking if you take me out now, then I can’t take out Orton and your precious Free or Fired match is on, but there’s one thing you’re forgetting - THE GM DIDN’T SANCTION THIS MATCH, YOU DID! So if the GM doesn’t have a problem with it, I can make a substitution! TAKING MY PLACE IS MY APPRENTICE, ALEX RILEY. YOU WANNA FACE ME CENA!? You’ll have to wait until ‘Mania AFTER I BECOME WWE CHAMPION, BECAUSE I’M THE MIZ AND I’M AWESOME!
King - How can you call yourself the voice of WWE after hearing the likes of the Fink and Mean Gene?
Cole - I’m a visionary!
Cole - Cole Miners, I did mis-speak a bit during the Ezekiel Jackson match - it’s 2010, not 2011.
King - Things have gone awry for A-Ri!
Cole - AND I QUOTE - It’s obvious that Cena and Orton have issues they need to work out prior to Survivor Series. Since this is old school, I think it’s appropriate that you are both guests on PIPER’S PIT!
King - Volkoff’s held up as well as Keith Richards.
Cole - Since they’re not communists anymore, we don’t have to boo anymore, right?
Santino - Please excuse me, I apologize for interrupting, but my tag team partner would love to sing the Russian national anthem with you. TAKE IT AWAY!
Santino - That was…CRUSHINGLY TERRIBLE.
Sheiky - HULK HOGAN. HULKAMANIA. IRON SHEIK!
Sheiky - EVERYBODY KNOW WITHOUT IRON SHEIK, THERE WOULD BE NO HULKAMANIA. PLEASE DON’T SAY USA USA, RUSSIAN NUMBAH VUN! SHUT UP! RUSSIA, NUMBAH VUN!
Cole - This is a very important matchup - Santino and Kozlov versus the Usos.
Cole - Jake the Snake had his snake, and Santino has his Cobra. I have my Cole Miners.
King - It’s a movement, right?
Cole - Yeah.
King - Most movements have to be flushed.
Cole - Kozlov uses every part of his weapon…as a weapon. Body...
King - There ya go.
Santino - KOZLOV! KOZLOV! ALMOST! PUSH!
Cole - THE COBRA STRIKES!
Morrison - You know why I keep doing this? CUZ YOU’RE A BULLY. You keep looking to fight In all the wrong places - I’M RIGHT HERE. LET’S GO!
Cole - LOOK WHO IS OTUNGA’S OPPONENT IS! CONTROLLED FRENZY, KOFI KINGSTON!
Cole - VINTAGE GEORGE STEELE!
Arn - Sheamus, that’s enough!
Sheamus - When he wakes up, let him know I accept his challenge - for Survivor Series.
Duggan - HOOO!
Aksana - What’d you call me?
Duggan - Nothing, sweetheart. Your mother’s over there.
Goldust - Give me some DASHING grooming tips.
Cody - Don’t breathe on me.
Goldust - HELP A BROTHA OUT!
Dusty - Man, I raised some weird kids!
Cole - GET CRUNK!
Cole - CRUNK! JUNK! IT’S JUNK! IT STUNK! THAT STUNK!
King - Barrett’s nose has been broken more times than the Ten Commandments.
Tito - ALBERTO DEL RIO! ARIBA!
King - Who’s driving him?
Cole - CHAVO CLASSIC! He was once the oldest cruiserweight champion.
King - You’re jealous of his car - your anti-theft device is Its look.
Cole - The wink thing Is cool.
Alberto - Gracias HALL OF FAMER TITO and Chavo Classic. My name is Alberto Del Rio, but you, YOU ALREADY KNOW THAT. Hershey, the home of stockoate! THAT’S FAT AMERICANS! I’M IN DA HEART OF DA NATION. A heart that soon will be stuffed by cholesterol and obesity! Anyway, I know we’re here because we should be celebrating the old school. I think all the legends should follow Tito and Chavo’s example and SHOW RESPECT TO ME!
Cole - An honest and nice request.
King - I hope Sarge calls him a maggot.
Sarge - SHUT YER HOLE, PUKE AND LISTEN UP! There’s two things you don’t mess with - legends and America! You want us to pay you respect? YOU EARN BY FACING ME RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW, YOU SCUM, YOU SLIME, YOU MAGGOT!
King - THERE IT IS!
Alberto - Bring it!
Crowd - MVP! MVP! MVP!
King - Back in the day, we had these metal railings.
Cole - And you swam across the ocean to get your Superstars bars.
King - I did that a couple of times.
King - Mae Young doesn’t have an enemy - she’s outlived them all.
Layla - I brought my fossil brush!
McCool - Let’s show some love for someone old enough to be Betty White’s grandmother!
Mae - GIVE ME A MATCH WITH THESE SLUTS! YOU LITTLE BITCHES, LET’S GO!
Cole - Who invited you here? YOU’RE NOT EVEN GONNA SHAKE MY HAND!
JR - Hi Michael.
JR - I don’t see anything boring about Daniel Bryan. He’s a great submission wrestler. Anyone with any intelligence can see that.
JR - Both these men love submissions - Swagger with the ankle lock, Daniel with the LeBelle Lock.
King - Daniel’s like a modern-day Bob Backlund.
Cole - YOU DO UNDERSTAND THAT I’M THE VOICE OF WWE, RIGHT!?
JR - Near fall!!
Cole - You guys did the XFL together - no wonder that league went out of business.
JR - Daniel Bryan wrestled around the world to get to WWE - he wasn’t a blue-chipper from Oklahoma like Swagger.
Cole - My voice is now in the signature opening - THIS IS E-LECTRIC!
Cole - J.R., we haven’t heard government mule, slobber knocker, or stomping a mudhole yet...
Cole - The Genius hasn’t come out to give us a poem.
King - Cole, how about a little less talk and a little more shut the hell up.
Cole - How’s the BBQ sauce doing for ya?
JR - Very well - jrsbarbq.com
Cole - It’s like swallowing a hairball.
Cole - THAT’S TED DIBIASE!
JR - Fine observasion.
Cole - Ted said he didn’t want that belt. SORRY, CHAMPIONSHIP!
JR - Great seeing you again, King.
Chavo Classic - EDDIE!
Piper - Holy cow - how cool are you? Ya know...
Crowd - RODDY! RODDY!
Piper - LET’S MAKE SOME HISTORY! OLD-SCHOOL, TO ME, IT’S NOT ABOUT NOSTALGIA, it’s not about a happy-feeling time. It’s about a time when you had to man up! A time when you had to stand up to the plate, like when Captain Lou was being honored and I smashed him in the face with a gold record! Jimmy Snuka! Snuka became a hot shot, and I hit him in the head with a co-co-nut! It was a time if you had a problem, you did something about it! AND THAT’S WHAT I HOPE TO ACCOMPLISH TONIGHT! MY FIRST GUEST IN THE PIPE TONIGHT, MR. JOHN CENA! I’ve been competing over 30 years, and I’ve never been WWE Champion. It does eat at me a bit. Many others, Ted. Sr., Ricky Steamboat, Jimmy Snuka, Mr. Perfect never, ever became the WWE Champion. And If you’re gonna do what I think you’re gonna do, and you’re gonna give that SOB WADE BARRETT THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT HIM DESERVING IT, Then what you’re doing is spitting in the face of all those legends that you say you respect. AND I’M ASKING YOU don’t you spit In my face, John Cena. You’ve been a man ever since you’ve come, from the first day you walked in. CONSEQUENCES BE DAMNED, do the right thing.
Cena - The right thing?
Piper - The right thing!
Cena - FREE OR FIRED - Free from Nexus, or fired from WWE. It’s not that easy. LISTEN, for one second. From the moment I got here, I’ve worked as hard as I have to have guys like you say he could’ve hung with us! I looked up to you guys as a kid - you were my heroes! If I hand over a championship, I won’t be one of us - I’ll be a guy that gave him a title. YER DAMN RIGHT. I’ll let the cat out of the bag - if Orton wins, he earns. If Barrett wins, he earns it. I’M GONNA CALL THE MATCH DOWN THE MIDDLE!
Barrett - WELL-SAID. BRAVO! I AGREE WITH YOU, JUST CALL IT DOWN THE MIDDLE. I DON’T NEED YOUR HELP AT ALL. I CAN BEAT ANYONE ON THE RAW ROSTER WITHOUT YOUR HELP. THOSE WERE MAGNIFICENT WORDS - BUT THAT’S THE PROBLEM - THEY’RE JUST WORDS. You and I both know there’s a reality in place here. There’s a reality you’ve got to face - if I don’t win, YOU ARE HISTORY. NO MORE WRESTLEMANIA MOMENTS, NO MORE CENATION, NONE OF THAT. It’s all over for you.
Piper - SHUT UP. IF YOU LET JOHN CENA GIVE YOU THAT WWE CHAMPIONSHIP, AND LOOK AT ME WHEN I’M TALKING TO YOU! AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU MAY HAVE THE WWE CHAMPIONSHIP, BUT YOU WON’T BE NO CHAMPION. YOU’LL JUST BE A JOKE!
Barrett - WHO ON EARTH ARE YOU TO CAST JUDGMENT ON ME!? HERE’S SOMETHING I REALIZED EARLIER TODAY - ONE WAY OR ANOTHER, THIS IS JOHN’S LAST NIGHT ON RAW AS PART OF NEXUS. IT MIGHT BE HIS LAST RAW FULL-STOP. ON SUNDAY, I EITHER SET YOU FREE, OR I FIRE YOU. Cena, if this is Indeed your final Raw as a member of Nexus, I’m going to do something I should have done before. (brings out Nexus shirt) PUT IT ON! TAKE THAT MONSTROSITY YOU’RE WEARING OFF AND PUT MINE ON. AND IF YOU DON’T PUT IT ON NOW, I’LL FIRE YOU ON THE SPOT!
Orton - Ever since you counted 1-2-3 on me, all I’ve thought about is ending this with a kick to the skull.
Cena - What’s stopping you?
Orton - Nothing - I’ve thought of a better option. I COULD take you out, or…(hits Barrett with mic)
 
[quote name='JaytheGamefan'] and the Lord Alfred Hayes soundbytes - probably would have been better to just use stock ones than try and make new ones with an impersonator though, as that sounded awful[/QUOTE]
Well it's kind of hard to get Alfred to do voiceovers for Paper Jamz and Snickers or whatever since he's, you know, dead. I guess they could have played him reading a Brut ad or whatever ("IT SMELLS LIKE A MANNNN.") but that wouldn't make much sense.

The impersonator thing was kind of weak though. They should have done what they did half the time Alfred wasn't reading the actual ads and just have the "Promotional Consideration" voice part followed by quick ads.

Ross no-selling everything Cole said was great.

Finkel still puts all other ring announcers to shame, and probably always will.

I love seeing Dusty/Goldust/Cody interact. "Don't breathe on me" ruled, but was trumped by Dusty's "I've sure got some weird kids" line.

Duggan will always get a big pop every time he appears from now until he's dead.

Piper used something called "a different tone of voice" to get his point across better. Other wrestlers should look into it, if they're allowed to.

They're definitely hinting at a Cena heel turn, even if they don't actually go through with it. Actually wearing the Nexus shirt, stopping Orton from doing anything to Barrett...if they do pull the trigger I just hope it leads to Cena delivering the most horrible beating in years to R-Truth.

I don't really watch Smackdown with any regularity, I had no idea until I was looking through an Apter mag today that Swagger's father is played by Bunkhouse Buck. Pretty cool.
 
Sounds like it was a fun one-off. However, I'm sure they'll return to their regularly scheduled sub-par programming next week.
 
Fun raw, one of the best ones in a long time, not really wrestling wise but entertaining wise. I've been warming up to Michael Cole lately but with JR coming back I'd rather they let him call the match instead of having Cole butt in every 3 seconds and instead of that could just have it a subtle or a few JR sly remarks but with the constant butting in it came off as annoying to me.Hearing JR again reminded me why hes not announcing anymore since he tends to call wrestling matches and treat it more as a sport then entertainment.

Funny seeing all the inside jokes like with the Rhodes family and just classic seeing so many older stars.Nice to go retro every once in a while and jee Piper sold that feud more then anything WWE had been doing with what little mic time he had.
 
JR calling a Daniel Bryan match in 2010 = the IWC's dream.

Michael Cole absolutely shitting on the match = Vince's ultimate troll to the IWC.
 
I don't typically watch WWE anymore but when I heard of this legends show I DVR'd it so I could run through it real fast.

Highlights:
Sheik and Volkoff
JR calling a match
The backstage Dusty Rhodes bit
Piper's Pit

My biggest complaint?
Where the heck was "Canada's Greatest Athelete": "Iron" Mike Sharpe!?
 
I was thinking about this after Raw, and it kind of hit me... what the hell must you be thinking if you're Wade Barrett? Here's a guy that was in FCW, brought it to do the now-abortion that is NXT, won it even though I guarantee that was a decision made halfway through the season, has basically been the focal point of the flagship show for 6 months, and, most importantly, has headlined both SummerSlam and Survivor Series. That's... that's a hell of a year.

Sheamus, looking at generally the same timeframe, has also been pushed to the moon, handed the title twice, put in a program with the biggest star in the company and WON, and yet isn't coming close to the level of over that Barrett is.

There's a lot to be said for the failed experiment that WWE has tried over the past year, which is exemplified by Sheamus and McIntyre. Both are very talented guys, but because the gimmick was that they literally were 'the guy' from moment one, they're not as over as they, by all rights, should've been. A lot of what Piper said last night was true, but in a roundabout way... just putting the title on a guy doesn't make him champion. Just ask Jack Swagger about that. Swagger, the former world champion who is ONLY NOW beginning to look like a world champion. That match with Bryan last night solidified for me what I initally saw in the guy, but it took this long to achieve that. Sheamus and McIntyre fall into the same category. It feels like a joke. It feels like playing SvR2011 and realizing that Universe mode has given a title match to Zack Ryder. Even Punk's first title run had strokes of this. Orton's first run is also a great example. The point is, a guy needs to be ready for the title, and I really feel like they may have actually learned their lesson after this year's failed experiments.

I have high hopes for Barrett. I think if he walks out of Survivor Series with the belt, it'll just look 'right'. They've let him grow organically enough that I accept it, and I also know that people will absolutely despise him, but in the good way. The sad fact is, though, that all of the heat from Sunday will be because of Cena. It's the one issue with the build, but I don't think it'll hurt Barrett all that much. My dream outcome, short of the Cena heel turn, is that Cena does exactly what he said last night... he calls in right down the middle, and Barrett goes over Orton clean. No flukes, no help, just a solid 1-2-3. It solidifies Barrett, gives the fans back their hero to go after the heel, and well... well, it leaves Orton in the same place Orton is now. In fairness, though, WWE has seen Orton as an afterthought in all this anyway, so I'll leave him there.

Sorry for the long post... this was really just sort of thinking out loud.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']I hate to be that guy but i feel like i just watched a 3 hour infomercial for WWE's new old school line of wrestling shirts.[/QUOTE]

That's all Raw has ever been though. Sure WWE makes money off of broadcasting the show. But it has been used to sell house shows, ppvs and merchandise through out it's history.

And speaking of PPV's. Some of the matches at Survivor Series don't need to be on a PPV. The Tag Team and Diva's titles are so devalued that they could be held on any of their shows right now (even Superstars). And announcing a Smackdown survivor style match on Raw reeks of last minute "we need another match" booking. That match should have been announced on SD last Friday and then Raw could have survivor match of it's own announced last night.

WWE sure seems like it doesn't know what the hell it's doing on ppv's lately (I personally think it's due to lack of focus in the mid-card). When ppv's have unannounced matches and end early, there clearly is a problem.
 
[quote name='007']Sheamus, looking at generally the same timeframe, has also been pushed to the moon, handed the title twice, put in a program with the biggest star in the company and WON, and yet isn't coming close to the level of over that Barrett is.[/QUOTE]
That's exaggerating. Sheamus could headline a PPV at any time and wouldn't seem out of place at all. He's plenty "over."
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']That's exaggerating. Sheamus could headline a PPV at any time and wouldn't seem out of place at all. He's plenty "over."[/QUOTE]

As much as I love Sheamus, I have to disagree. I admit, saying he would look out of place headlining a PPV is a little much, but he's not 'there' yet. He just isn't. The crowd is lukewarm on him at best, and it's never a great sign when WWE decides to get you heat by beating up the mid-card comedy act.

The other problem is that NONE of his victories as champion were solid, they were mostly fluke victories because of outside interference or a non-finish. It was more 'how is Sheamus getting away with keeping the belt' than 'he continues to be champion'. Jericho and Edge can pull it off, Sheamus needs to be a dominant heel. He runs away far too often for a guy of his size, but it's never portrayed as 'smart'.

So, yeah, I really like the guy, but I just can't fully endorse him as a main event guy yet. I just can't. That's WWE's problem, though, not anything he's done.
 
I think the problem with Shamus is the same problem WWE has with all first time champions lately. They're all booked poorly. Just look at Punk, Swagger and Shamus. Their first run's all look the same. It's almost like WWE wants to see how the guy reacts to being booked shitty. It's hard to get over when you can't win a match (clean or even at all).

Speaking of winning matches, I was surprised that Ziggler won clean over a "monster" like Mark Henry last night. I suspect a face turn coming.
 
I agree on Sheamus - talented, yes, but they've made him look like everyone's bitch all summer long and killed most of the heat he got from his Cena and Triple H feuds. He ran crying for Cena just because Nexus looked at him. They've done the bit where the face challenges him, he steps up to the ring,then turns around and runs off like 10 times already.

McIntyre they kinda ruined when they forced him into the Jericho/Orton heel mold. Read any interview with him and you can see he's clearly not that super serious guy. Let him be the arrogant but still somewhat charming prick that he is. The only problem is that you now have Cody Rhodes and Alberto Del Rio doing the same thing.
 
[quote name='diddy310']The only problem is that you now have Cody Rhodes and Alberto Del Rio doing the same thing.[/QUOTE]

But doing it much better. ;)
 
[quote name='mogamer']Speaking of winning matches, I was surprised that Ziggler won clean over a "monster" like Mark Henry last night. I suspect a face turn coming.[/QUOTE]
I'm not surprised. Ziggler is the champion from another show. Of course they're going to want to put him over a non-champion.

I was thinking a lot about something else last night, right after seeing the backstage segment with the Rhodes family. I went back to the time when Legacy split for good, and a lot of people (including me) thought that Ted was going to be the one to make it big. He certainly has the look for it, plus he's physically bigger than Cody is. But it turns out that I was wrong. Dashing Cody Rhodes is taking his gimmick and running with it, looking fantastic both in and out of the ring. I could easily see him with a singles belt in another few months.

Ted DiBiazzzz, on the other hand, has done nothing. WWE has been trying to push him, but the man gets absolutely no reaction. They brought back the Million Dollar Belt, and he got no reaction. Virgil, no reaction. Even poor Maryse now gets no reaction after being taken away from wrestling. Then they brought in Goldust to try and get him a reaction, and it backfired and Goldust became more popular than ever! Now they're going to try and get a Bryan/Ted program going? I honestly hope that Creative gets it through their heads and realizes the fact that Ted has the charisma of a plate of lima beans.
 
I like Shaemus...he looks like a natural main eventer.

But Wade....dude looks like "that guy". Like he could be a heel for years to come...yet get face cheers a la Austin and The Rock.

Putting him with Cena has only helped him even more whether we want to acknowledge it or not.

It's guys like Rhodes and Morrison that I'm not seeing as future champs. Not because of their size neither...

Del Rio though....he could easily be the heel champ and a face champ...just like Wade.

Wade and Del Rio...they have "IT"
 
[quote name='mogamer']I think the problem with Shamus is the same problem WWE has with all first time champions lately. They're all booked poorly. Just look at Punk, Swagger and Shamus. Their first run's all look the same. It's almost like WWE wants to see how the guy reacts to being booked shitty. It's hard to get over when you can't win a match (clean or even at all).

Speaking of winning matches, I was surprised that Ziggler won clean over a "monster" like Mark Henry last night. I suspect a face turn coming.[/QUOTE]
Ditto.They seem to sabotage their own attempts at making stars,expecting by giving him the belt he'll be over and they'll just keep up with the terrible booking.The only feud I can think of that they didn't ruin making the champion look too weak was CM Punk and Jeff Hardy.They've tried too making too many main new main eventers at once,just makes the belt worth less when they do this sort of booking.Maybe they'll use the royale rumble this year to help that certain someone close to being a main eventer or KOTR.
 
I gotta say, I loved 90% of Raw. I want to watch it again to make sure my marking out wasn't for nostalgia only or if I really liked for what it was.

I've been warming up to Cole myself, albeit it's been a slow build. But DAMN 10 minutes of JR back on commentary just destroys anything I had for Cole and put him back on the bottom. JR still has it, he just brings something special to wrestling. I can't put my finger on it, its like he brings a piece of professionalism or more like a sports competition announcer rather than a guy just making smart remarks and putting himself over the whole time and flip flops heel/face.

Gotta say, no wonder the Usos are relegated to Superstars. They are not great at all! One of them gave Kozlov a back suplex as if he were a regular sized guy. Call me old school or what not, but with Kozlov's size, he's a super heavyweight. He shouldn't be suplexed by smaller guys. Also I just didn't like their moveset :) But hey, what do I know? I'm not in the WWE, just an indy wrestler :p
 
[quote name='strongpimphand']

Wade and Del Rio...they have "IT"[/QUOTE]

They call him Juan Bradshaw Layfield for a reason, only in this case Del Rio has the charisma to actually putt it off. Dude just needs time to ripen properly. Try to push him too fast and they'd have another Swagger reign; pull the trigger too late or fuck it up and be as poorly booked as Rey was in his first reign.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']They call him Juan Bradshaw Layfield for a reason, only in this case Del Rio has the charisma to actually putt it off. Dude just needs time to ripen properly. Try to push him too fast and they'd have another Swagger reign; pull the trigger too late or fuck it up and be as poorly booked as Rey was in his first reign.[/QUOTE]


IMO, comparing Del Rio to JBL is a bit of an insult. Sure Bradshaw was gold on the mic. But Del Rio is so much better in the ring.

Like I said in a previous thread. I can't believe that a guy with the facial expressions he has, wore a mask his whole career before coming to WWE. I can see he, Cody and Ziggler tearing up Smackdown down the road. Until they're brought to Raw and promptly buried beneath Cena, Orton and HHH. :cry:
 
[quote name='mogamer']IMO, comparing Del Rio to JBL is a bit of an insult. Sure Bradshaw was gold on the mic. But Del Rio is so much better in the ring.

Like I said in a previous thread. I can't believe that a guy with the facial expressions he has, wore a mask his whole career before coming to WWE. I can see he, Cody and Ziggler tearing up Smackdown down the road. Until they're brought to Raw and promptly buried beneath Cena, Orton and HHH. :cry:[/QUOTE]

What's funny about that is while his in ring talent was highly regarded and respected in Mexico, the biggest knock against Del Rio was his lack of any type personality.

While I do miss his Dos Cara persona, removing his mask was the best thing to happen to his pro wrestling career. Im kinda looking forward to his eventual face turn. Only then will we get to really see his full in ring skills.
 
[quote name='mogamer']IMO, comparing Del Rio to JBL is a bit of an insult. Sure Bradshaw was gold on the mic. But Del Rio is so much better in the ring. [/QUOTE]

I was comparing them as far as gimmicks go, but I guess I can expand on that in that el Rio has both the charisma to give it some weight AND in-ring talent to back it up.
 
Joey Styles' Twitter said:
Oh the hell with this, this show was taped over three hours ago. Aksana was eliminated. Who cares?

---

I can't watch this episode any more.

---

Yes I spoiled the end of this awful episode. Tweet your complaints to me @joeystyles .
Click to expand...

Which was followed by...
The WWE's Official Twitter said:
WWE apologizes for @JoeyStyles' tweet spoiling tonight's @WWENXT elimination. His actions were unprofessional & unacceptable.
Click to expand...
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Kudos, once again, to Joey Styles. I'll always respect a guy who realizes that you can toe the company line only to a certain point.
 
Its a wonder they've let him get away with as much as hes said on twitter,but damn Vince must really respect a guy with balls.KOing JBL might have been the best thing for his career.
 
Since nobody gives a shit about terrible midcard feuds in TNA, I'm not using a spoiler: at Final Resolution, we're getting Lethal v Robbie with Cookie in a cage above the ring so she can't interfere. Yay!
 
Below are some more reactions to last night’s “old school” RAW:

Mick Foley: “How cool was it to see JR back on Raw? Great job by Cole and King too. “Bland leading the bland” an all time classic! Awesome promo by the Hot Rod, too! Good to see so many of the old-school guys at one time on the same stage.”

Joey Styles: “JR, King and Cole should be Raw’s 3 man announce team. JR no selling Cole’s insults while King tries not to laugh is great television. For the record, Mae Young called Lay-Cool “SLUTS” and “BITCHES”. Who’s gonna fine an 87 year old woman? There is only one Mae Young. LMAO!”

The Iron Sheik: “Slick is my best manager like my agent, he know hulk hogan piece of shit no good motherf***er. f*** the santino too”
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
[quote name='mogamer']Sure Bradshaw was gold on the mic. But Del Rio is so much better in the ring.[/QUOTE]
Bradshaw also had much nicer breasts.
 
[quote name='KaneRobot']Bradshaw also had much nicer breasts.[/QUOTE]

Yah, but I never saw him make them dance like Chris Master does! :lol:
 
I was on LOP's blog and saw the leaked top 50 greatest wrestlers of all time list that WWE came out with....

.....I'm debating if I wanna post it or not. It could easily take up 25 posts on here....and we're in the 490's now

Someone (or I) should make the next thread about this list...because umm.....the top 10 = comedy central


In fact, it's in the spoiler tag...

The DVD's complete 1 to 50 ranking is as follows:

1. Shawn Michaels
2. The Undertaker
3. Steve Austin
4. Bret Hart
5. The Rock
6. Harley Race
7. Ricky Steamboat
8. Andre the Giant
9. Rey Mysterio
10. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
11. Eddie Guerrero
12. Triple H
13. Gorgeous George
14. "Macho Man" Randy Savage
15. "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig
16. John Cena
17. Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair (tied)
19. Edge
20. Jerry "The King" Lawler
21. Lou Thesz
22. Terry Funk
23. Hulk Hogan
24. Bruno Sammartino
25. Chris Jericho
26. Ted DiBiase
27. Fabulous Moolah
28. Classy Freddie Blassie
29. Randy Orton
30. Pat Patterson
31. The Iron Sheik
32. Jimmy Snuka
33. Mick Foley
34. Kurt Angle
35. Buddy Rogers
36. Gorilla Monsoon
37. Junkyard Dog
38. "Superstar" Billy Graham
39. Jake "The Snake" Roberts
40. Big Show
41. Jack Brisco
42. Sgt. Slaughter
43. Kane
44. Nick Bockwinkel
45. Jeff Hardy
46. Dory Funk Jr.
47. Bob Backlund
48. Rick Rude
49. Batista
50. Killer Kowalski

yea....


And the biggest spoiler that I'm going to ruin for yall....Ric Flair is not in the top 10...
 
[quote name='strongpimphand']I was on LOP's blog and saw the leaked top 50 greatest wrestlers of all time list that WWE came out with....

.....I'm debating if I wanna post it or not. It could easily take up 25 posts on here....and we're in the 490's now

Someone (or I) should make the next thread about this list...because umm.....the top 10 = comedy central


In fact, it's in the spoiler tag...

The DVD's complete 1 to 50 ranking is as follows:

1. Shawn Michaels
2. The Undertaker
3. Steve Austin
4. Bret Hart
5. The Rock
6. Harley Race
7. Ricky Steamboat
8. Andre the Giant
9. Rey Mysterio
10. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper
11. Eddie Guerrero
12. Triple H
13. Gorgeous George
14. "Macho Man" Randy Savage
15. "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig
16. John Cena
17. Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair (tied)
19. Edge
20. Jerry "The King" Lawler
21. Lou Thesz
22. Terry Funk
23. Hulk Hogan
24. Bruno Sammartino
25. Chris Jericho
26. Ted DiBiase
27. Fabulous Moolah
28. Classy Freddie Blassie
29. Randy Orton
30. Pat Patterson
31. The Iron Sheik
32. Jimmy Snuka
33. Mick Foley
34. Kurt Angle
35. Buddy Rogers
36. Gorilla Monsoon
37. Junkyard Dog
38. "Superstar" Billy Graham
39. Jake "The Snake" Roberts
40. Big Show
41. Jack Brisco
42. Sgt. Slaughter
43. Kane
44. Nick Bockwinkel
45. Jeff Hardy
46. Dory Funk Jr.
47. Bob Backlund
48. Rick Rude
49. Batista
50. Killer Kowalski

yea....


And the biggest spoiler that I'm going to ruin for yall....Ric Flair is not in the top 10...[/QUOTE]

old news buddy and nobody really cared when it was originally posted

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=277755&page=13
 
have we just became desensitized to the idea that rey myestero jr is top 10 material???
 
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