The "New Clique" Wrestling Thread
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Purple Flames
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[quote name='diddy310']I'm happy to see Wade with a belt..but damn they couldn't give him and Kofi 10 minutes of Wrestlemania instead of a TV match with no buildup?[/QUOTE]
They just gotta maintain that streak of not defending the IC belt at WM
They just gotta maintain that streak of not defending the IC belt at WM
Purple Flames
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Kevin Nash talking about why he decided to head back to WWE. Also a good example of why it's a good idea to not burn any bridges in the business:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fLUrOXWIy0&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fLUrOXWIy0&feature=player_embedded
Yeah, Neo, that entire Jarrett-Angle story has been repulsive. I still can't believe they actually involved Kurt Angle and Karen Jarrett's real-life kids. Instead of coaching Kurt to being a "team player", Hulk Hogan should have put the kibosh on the idea.
I know it's useless to mention it in this modern-day WWE era, but I have and will always hate when a promotion just tosses a championship belt around and without any build. It's an example of how lamentable WWE has become with handling titles when the WWE Hardcore championship had better build for title changes than some of these recent WWE Intercontinental and Tag Team title changes.
I know it's useless to mention it in this modern-day WWE era, but I have and will always hate when a promotion just tosses a championship belt around and without any build. It's an example of how lamentable WWE has become with handling titles when the WWE Hardcore championship had better build for title changes than some of these recent WWE Intercontinental and Tag Team title changes.
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JaytheGamefan
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It's pretty stupid to have him with the title in a really hot match and then just do nothing with him.
Purple Flames
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While we're on the topic: what would you guys like to see that can invigorate the title scene across the board in WWE?
One idea I'd like to see is to have all matches involving the tag and second-tier titles be for the title (I feel the world titles should only be defended on a grand stage so people will have an incentive to wanna buy PPVs). This would ensure that the current holder be a fighting champ and make every match they have important. I think we're all sick of see guys with belts in throwaway matches that don't mean shit and just makes them look week when they lose. I also hate the "beat the champ and get a title shot later" match. What's the point? You JUST proved you can beat him, so why have a second match just to get the belt? That sort of thing just makes the belts more ornamental pieces than an indicator of your in-ring ability.
I also think it's time we just do away with the brand extention shit and unify the world titles like we did back in '01 and bring back the Undisputed Championship. Having two belts devalues both of them, and I think that one company should only have one world champ.
One idea I'd like to see is to have all matches involving the tag and second-tier titles be for the title (I feel the world titles should only be defended on a grand stage so people will have an incentive to wanna buy PPVs). This would ensure that the current holder be a fighting champ and make every match they have important. I think we're all sick of see guys with belts in throwaway matches that don't mean shit and just makes them look week when they lose. I also hate the "beat the champ and get a title shot later" match. What's the point? You JUST proved you can beat him, so why have a second match just to get the belt? That sort of thing just makes the belts more ornamental pieces than an indicator of your in-ring ability.
I also think it's time we just do away with the brand extention shit and unify the world titles like we did back in '01 and bring back the Undisputed Championship. Having two belts devalues both of them, and I think that one company should only have one world champ.
ShinSolidus
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In Sin Cara News:
Sin Cara made his WWE debut at tonight's Raw live event at Assembly Hall in Champaign, Illinois, defeating Primo.
A fan in attendance said that while his performance was "solid", he doesn't know how to work a "WWE style" match. He also performed about eight headscissors variations.
Sin Cara made his WWE debut at tonight's Raw live event at Assembly Hall in Champaign, Illinois, defeating Primo.
A fan in attendance said that while his performance was "solid", he doesn't know how to work a "WWE style" match. He also performed about eight headscissors variations.
Ansé Solis
Banned
Sin Cara is TERRIBLE!
Different dose not equal good Neocisico. I say that with all the respect in the world. His moveset is more limited than John Cena. I'm serious. Mark my words. His moveset is more limited than Hulk Hogan.
Different dose not equal good Neocisico. I say that with all the respect in the world. His moveset is more limited than John Cena. I'm serious. Mark my words. His moveset is more limited than Hulk Hogan.
B
Blackout
Guest
After watching the Miz on Conan and seeing him outside of WWE programming, it dawned on me that one of his biggest problems is that the guy doesn't even look like a wrestler, much less the WWE champion. That and shitty booking are really hurting him. He looked like some average joe when he was chatting with Conan. People who don't watch wrestling are going to look at him and laugh that he's the world heavyweight champion. If you saw Miz on the street, would you be intimidated? I would think I could probably kick his ass. I can suspend my belief a ton, but I can't take Miz seriously as a physical threat.
I don't know what Miz needs to do. Maybe hit the gym and bulk up a bit, grow some facial hair. Do something. He's grown on me a lot and I can tell he's working his
ing hardest to get himself over, but with the company not helping any he's just not getting there.
The HHH/Taker thing has been put together pretty terribly. At first I was excited for it, but these clips and promos where they say the same exact thing every week doesn't cut it. More wasted potential.
Impact was God awful this week, and I usually can find something I like about the program. Well, I actually liked when Sarita did her dancing. This is the 3rd show in a row with no decisive number 1 contender. RVD might be the contender, after some mysterious person rang the bell when Anderson and Sting brawled. Huh? Although it's not clear if RVD is actually number 1 contender so we'll probably get him and Anderson for a 4th time next week. Are clean finishes in TNA impossible for them to pull the trigger on? Then they bring back a concussion storyline. Didn't we already see this? I'm going to assume that they play on the fact RVD can't remember that he "won," so Anderson uses that to get another rematch by saying the match never took place. Since this is TNA, this will probably end up happening.
Kennedy is annoying as hell and can't wrestle. His character sucks. He bitches about not getting his title shot when he blows every opportunity he's gotten. Even when he had the belt, he was easily the worst heavyweight champion in the past several years, if not the past decade.
The Pope/Joe thing ising stupid and needs to end already. I don't even care about the payoff anymore.
The weird lesbian slave storyline they're doing with Angelina Love just comes across as way too awkward.
It's pretty clear Hogan doesn't give a shit about TNA. Him being on a huge show like American Idol and not mentioning TNA, not being advertised as "Hulk Hogan from TNA Wrestling", not wearing a TNA shirt, or giving someone on the show a replica TNA world title, etc is such a wasted opportunity.
I don't know what Miz needs to do. Maybe hit the gym and bulk up a bit, grow some facial hair. Do something. He's grown on me a lot and I can tell he's working his
ing hardest to get himself over, but with the company not helping any he's just not getting there. The HHH/Taker thing has been put together pretty terribly. At first I was excited for it, but these clips and promos where they say the same exact thing every week doesn't cut it. More wasted potential.
Impact was God awful this week, and I usually can find something I like about the program. Well, I actually liked when Sarita did her dancing. This is the 3rd show in a row with no decisive number 1 contender. RVD might be the contender, after some mysterious person rang the bell when Anderson and Sting brawled. Huh? Although it's not clear if RVD is actually number 1 contender so we'll probably get him and Anderson for a 4th time next week. Are clean finishes in TNA impossible for them to pull the trigger on? Then they bring back a concussion storyline. Didn't we already see this? I'm going to assume that they play on the fact RVD can't remember that he "won," so Anderson uses that to get another rematch by saying the match never took place. Since this is TNA, this will probably end up happening.
Kennedy is annoying as hell and can't wrestle. His character sucks. He bitches about not getting his title shot when he blows every opportunity he's gotten. Even when he had the belt, he was easily the worst heavyweight champion in the past several years, if not the past decade.
The Pope/Joe thing is
ing stupid and needs to end already. I don't even care about the payoff anymore. The weird lesbian slave storyline they're doing with Angelina Love just comes across as way too awkward.
It's pretty clear Hogan doesn't give a shit about TNA. Him being on a huge show like American Idol and not mentioning TNA, not being advertised as "Hulk Hogan from TNA Wrestling", not wearing a TNA shirt, or giving someone on the show a replica TNA world title, etc is such a wasted opportunity.
[quote name='Blackout']After watching the Miz on Conan and seeing him outside of WWE programming, it dawned on me that one of his biggest problems is that the guy doesn't even look like a wrestler, much less the WWE champion. That and shitty booking are really hurting him. He looked like some average joe when he was chatting with Conan. People who don't watch wrestling are going to look at him and laugh that he's the world heavyweight champion. If you saw Miz on the street, would you be intimidated? I would think I could probably kick his ass. I can suspend my belief a ton, but I can't take Miz seriously as a physical threat. [/QUOTE]
Did you see him on Jimmy Fallon a few months back? It was even worse. He was giddy the entire interview and talked about how he was on the Real World.
Did you see him on Jimmy Fallon a few months back? It was even worse. He was giddy the entire interview and talked about how he was on the Real World.
I just watched the Miz on Conan segment via Youtube, and all I could think about was this:
[quote name='RedvsBlue']You know, it makes me wonder, just how much is that championship belt worth if they don't trust him to carry it around.[/QUOTE]
Last I heard, the real belt is valued somewhere around 500k. I doubt very seriously that ANYONE travels with the belt these days, as it'd be too easy for someone to try and steal it. Besides, by traveling with a replica, the champion could easily autograph the strap and leave it as a souvenir for the show's host which I'm sure those guys enjoy.
When I worked at a local venue here, the belts were brought in off one of the production/set trucks, inside of a locked steel crate. The belts were inside, placed inside of black velvet lined bags (marked on the front with the logo of their show) to protect them. I watched the head of security at the time (I forget his name, but he was a huge black guy) take them out and shine them with a cloth to get them ready for the nights event. This was several years ago now, but the real belts are extremelying heavy. The WWE belts feel considerably heavier than other world titles, like the UFC belt.
We often had MMA shows, and one of our guests was then champion Rich Franklin. UFC obviously doesn't have as much invested in their belts, as his was the real deal, and he left it sitting on the table in front of him and would let any/everyone walk up and pick it up/put it on/take pictures with it.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']You know, it makes me wonder, just how much is that championship belt worth if they don't trust him to carry it around.[/QUOTE]
Last I heard, the real belt is valued somewhere around 500k. I doubt very seriously that ANYONE travels with the belt these days, as it'd be too easy for someone to try and steal it. Besides, by traveling with a replica, the champion could easily autograph the strap and leave it as a souvenir for the show's host which I'm sure those guys enjoy.
When I worked at a local venue here, the belts were brought in off one of the production/set trucks, inside of a locked steel crate. The belts were inside, placed inside of black velvet lined bags (marked on the front with the logo of their show) to protect them. I watched the head of security at the time (I forget his name, but he was a huge black guy) take them out and shine them with a cloth to get them ready for the nights event. This was several years ago now, but the real belts are extremely
ing heavy. The WWE belts feel considerably heavier than other world titles, like the UFC belt. We often had MMA shows, and one of our guests was then champion Rich Franklin. UFC obviously doesn't have as much invested in their belts, as his was the real deal, and he left it sitting on the table in front of him and would let any/everyone walk up and pick it up/put it on/take pictures with it.
mykevermin
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But what you're doing is reinforcing the WWE's "small guys need not apply" attitude.
[quote name='Purple Flames']While we're on the topic: what would you guys like to see that can invigorate the title scene across the board in WWE?[/QUOTE]
Put title holders in fewer televised matches. Edge was wrestling on tv at 8:25PM last night. How is that special? Hulk Hogan rarely wrestled on free tv - if you wanted to see him in the ring, you would have to go to a live event or order the pay per view (barring their semi-annual specials, like SNME). WWE felt pressured to move into a "name talent vs name talent" format to compete with WCW - before that, Raw had a lot of jobbers on tv (that also made the live events look good, as you would see Barrett vs Kofi on the card). TNA is so far behind WWE in terms of competitiveness that WWE has the opportunity to scale down the "quality" of their matches on tv (in terms of who is competing against who).
I don't think that will ever happen, though, but there's nothing special about any of the champions right now. It's not any single person or personality, but the way WWE produces and presents television.
[quote name='Purple Flames']While we're on the topic: what would you guys like to see that can invigorate the title scene across the board in WWE?[/QUOTE]
Put title holders in fewer televised matches. Edge was wrestling on tv at 8:25PM last night. How is that special? Hulk Hogan rarely wrestled on free tv - if you wanted to see him in the ring, you would have to go to a live event or order the pay per view (barring their semi-annual specials, like SNME). WWE felt pressured to move into a "name talent vs name talent" format to compete with WCW - before that, Raw had a lot of jobbers on tv (that also made the live events look good, as you would see Barrett vs Kofi on the card). TNA is so far behind WWE in terms of competitiveness that WWE has the opportunity to scale down the "quality" of their matches on tv (in terms of who is competing against who).
I don't think that will ever happen, though, but there's nothing special about any of the champions right now. It's not any single person or personality, but the way WWE produces and presents television.
Ansé Solis
Banned
[quote name='mykevermin']Put title holders in fewer televised matches. Edge was wrestling on tv at 8:25PM last night. How is that special? Hulk Hogan rarely wrestled on free tv - if you wanted to see him in the ring, you would have to go to a live event or order the pay per view (barring their semi-annual specials, like SNME). WWE felt pressured to move into a "name talent vs name talent" format to compete with WCW - before that, Raw had a lot of jobbers on tv (that also made the live events look good, as you would see Barrett vs Kofi on the card). TNA is so far behind WWE in terms of competitiveness that WWE has the opportunity to scale down the "quality" of their matches on tv (in terms of who is competing against who).
I don't think that will ever happen, though, but there's nothing special about any of the champions right now. It's not any single person or personality, but the way WWE produces and presents television.[/QUOTE]
Your ideas suck.
According to you, in today's extremely competitive market, the WWE should fill up their matches with a a bunch of filler. I'm sorry but downgrading the product and making things less competitive will hurt and not help WWE.
There's something wrong with you when everything that comes out of your mouth wants to revert WWE back to the goddamn 1980's.
Newsflash. The WWE is doing better business than they were back then. What the hell would they even begin to consider your terrible idea? Besides if every other match was a squash match, it would ruin the point the company would be trying to make with squashes in the first place.
I don't think that will ever happen, though, but there's nothing special about any of the champions right now. It's not any single person or personality, but the way WWE produces and presents television.[/QUOTE]
Your ideas suck.
According to you, in today's extremely competitive market, the WWE should fill up their matches with a a bunch of filler. I'm sorry but downgrading the product and making things less competitive will hurt and not help WWE.
There's something wrong with you when everything that comes out of your mouth wants to revert WWE back to the goddamn 1980's.
Newsflash. The WWE is doing better business than they were back then. What the hell would they even begin to consider your terrible idea? Besides if every other match was a squash match, it would ruin the point the company would be trying to make with squashes in the first place.
Vacabck
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[quote name='Clak']I'd actually start watching again if the WWE was like it was back in the 80s/early 90s.[/QUOTE]
Amen, plus I'd actually have a reason to buy PPV's if it was like the 80's/90's. As it is now, all I gotta do is tune in at 8:00 on a Friday or Monday night and watch a title match, why should I spend money on a product I've already seen on Raw or Smackdown?
Amen, plus I'd actually have a reason to buy PPV's if it was like the 80's/90's. As it is now, all I gotta do is tune in at 8:00 on a Friday or Monday night and watch a title match, why should I spend money on a product I've already seen on Raw or Smackdown?
Ansé Solis
Banned
[quote name='Vacabck']Amen, plus I'd actually have a reason to buy PPV's if it was like the 80's/90's. As it is now, all I gotta do is tune in at 8:00 on a Friday or Monday night and watch a title match, why should I spend money on a product I've already seen on Raw or Smackdown?[/QUOTE]
Lies.
Edge vs. Del Rio is a first time match this Wrestlemania. In fact their feud has been ALL build. Will you order it?
John Cena and Batista had a first time match at Summerslam. Did you order that?
I can go down the list and point out multiple cases where first time matches have happened on PPV, and more often than not, you would have skipped purchasing them regardless. Don't sell this nonsense about how would you "have a reason to buy PPV's" if there were no title matches on free TV.
The simple answer to all your woes is that there are very few wrestlers that excite you enough to make you want to spend your money. The booking isn't the problem. The wrestlers are.
In fact I will give you an extreme example of your b.s. stance. Ring of Honor has NO title matches on TV and the only way you can see them is to pay for their shows and purchase their iPPVs.
How many have you bought?
Lies.
Edge vs. Del Rio is a first time match this Wrestlemania. In fact their feud has been ALL build. Will you order it?
John Cena and Batista had a first time match at Summerslam. Did you order that?
I can go down the list and point out multiple cases where first time matches have happened on PPV, and more often than not, you would have skipped purchasing them regardless. Don't sell this nonsense about how would you "have a reason to buy PPV's" if there were no title matches on free TV.
The simple answer to all your woes is that there are very few wrestlers that excite you enough to make you want to spend your money. The booking isn't the problem. The wrestlers are.
In fact I will give you an extreme example of your b.s. stance. Ring of Honor has NO title matches on TV and the only way you can see them is to pay for their shows and purchase their iPPVs.
How many have you bought?
mykevermin
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^ You're not particularly literate, son. I did not say no title matches on tv, I said fewer matches for champs altogether. Putting the champion in the ring should be a special thing, yet in the case of Edge he was in the opening match on Smackdown two weeks in a row. WWE's "First time" match ups are a fallacy of an argument, as they put them in 3-ways, 4-ways, and tag matches all leading up to the event. The last time WWE really went with a "these dudes aren't gonna touch each other" buildup has been Brock Lesnar vs The Rock during Summerslam (2002?). Also, look at what they're doing now with Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler - the buildup there has been the hottest thing leading up to Wrestlemania. Look also at Cena-Rock (which is the real feud, and not Cena-Miz). People are looking forward to them facing each other on tv. Why? Anticipation. If they had been in six tag matches indirectly facing each other since Rock returned, it wouldn't matter for shit, it would just be another opening segment.
Compare this with Cena-Miz, which has been, hands down, one of the worst title buildups for WM I can remember. The whole angle, as little time as WWE has devoted to it, has consisted of Miz staking a claim (weakly) that he deserves to be in the WM main event - and then he and Riley get treated like jobbers by Cena, who crushed them both without breaking a sweat.
Compare this with Orton-Punk, which had the entire group of the Nexus being treated like a bitch by Orton, who single-handedly put them all off of tv indefinitely with his "punt that kills people" or whatever they call it. Punk got ZERO heat on Orton until this past Monday, and even then, it wasn't much. Certainly isn't enough to make that match compelling. They've been in each others' face every week.
Don't start to take things personal, kiddo, but you've not the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Blanket statements like "The WWE is doing better business than they were back then" show that you're not really thinking through your argument. Which then? The 1980's, when they were pushing the "Rock N' Wrestling Connection?" The mid-1990's then, when Vince had to beg Bret Hart to cancel his 20-year contract because he couldn't afford it? Or the past decade then, which has shown a slow but steady decline in revenue from all sources?
PPV buys in 2010 were down 25% from 2009 (can you imagine what it looks like to the owner of a business to discover their bread and butter revenue-generator is doing 3/4s what it did the year prior???), live event sales down in the range of 10%, home video sales went through theing floor, and the movie division cut a loss. WWE remains a profitable company because of financial management that ensures it is. WWE has habitually focused on cutting expenditures to remain profitable - rather than increasing revenue. Those are the two ways you can make money as a business. Cutting expenditures is limited (eventually, you run out of areas to cut from), where growing revenue is limitless.
Aside from your broad brush of "I have an opinion on stuff, but I'm not factually informed yet won't let that get in the way of making my point," you overstate the importance of wrestling matches on tv ratings. Hey, who did Dolph Ziggler wrestle three weeks ago on Raw? Last week? How about what Cody Rhodes did on Smackdown last week? No googling, now; that wouldn't be fair. WWE programming teaches you to not give a flying about the matches, it's a vehicle for driving the storylines. See Randy Orton versus (who did he wrestle? can you recall?) last Monday on Raw, which summarily ended in about 45 seconds when Orton ran out to his bus. His bus and his wife were more integral to the programming than the match. Why have the match? Why have the opponent he did? Why not just plug Tom Stone, Iron Mike Sharpe, Duane Gill, or any of the old regional WWF jobber brigade in there? It's not like WWE promoted the match during the program AT ALL (they did announce it as a "Wrestlemania rematch," which is only a half truth, like saying HHH vs HBK would be a "rematch" of the WM20 main event).
But, hey, if you want to see your tag team champions (which are who again? The Corre? Santino/Kozlov? The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers?) drop their belts in a 3:30 match and then win them back the next week in a 3:50 match, be my guest. That kinda shit really drives ratings, doesn't it?
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Hey, kid. Stop with your snide elitist punk rock attitude. First of all (channeling my inner 16 year old), since you're someone who had no idea what ROH was three months ago, you've got noing place to have a snotty attitude. Quit bein' a poseur, and stop tucking your t-shirt in.
Compare this with Cena-Miz, which has been, hands down, one of the worst title buildups for WM I can remember. The whole angle, as little time as WWE has devoted to it, has consisted of Miz staking a claim (weakly) that he deserves to be in the WM main event - and then he and Riley get treated like jobbers by Cena, who crushed them both without breaking a sweat.
Compare this with Orton-Punk, which had the entire group of the Nexus being treated like a bitch by Orton, who single-handedly put them all off of tv indefinitely with his "punt that kills people" or whatever they call it. Punk got ZERO heat on Orton until this past Monday, and even then, it wasn't much. Certainly isn't enough to make that match compelling. They've been in each others' face every week.
Don't start to take things personal, kiddo, but you've not the slightest idea what you're talking about.
Blanket statements like "The WWE is doing better business than they were back then" show that you're not really thinking through your argument. Which then? The 1980's, when they were pushing the "Rock N' Wrestling Connection?" The mid-1990's then, when Vince had to beg Bret Hart to cancel his 20-year contract because he couldn't afford it? Or the past decade then, which has shown a slow but steady decline in revenue from all sources?
PPV buys in 2010 were down 25% from 2009 (can you imagine what it looks like to the owner of a business to discover their bread and butter revenue-generator is doing 3/4s what it did the year prior???), live event sales down in the range of 10%, home video sales went through the
ing floor, and the movie division cut a loss. WWE remains a profitable company because of financial management that ensures it is. WWE has habitually focused on cutting expenditures to remain profitable - rather than increasing revenue. Those are the two ways you can make money as a business. Cutting expenditures is limited (eventually, you run out of areas to cut from), where growing revenue is limitless. Aside from your broad brush of "I have an opinion on stuff, but I'm not factually informed yet won't let that get in the way of making my point," you overstate the importance of wrestling matches on tv ratings. Hey, who did Dolph Ziggler wrestle three weeks ago on Raw? Last week? How about what Cody Rhodes did on Smackdown last week? No googling, now; that wouldn't be fair. WWE programming teaches you to not give a flying
about the matches, it's a vehicle for driving the storylines. See Randy Orton versus (who did he wrestle? can you recall?) last Monday on Raw, which summarily ended in about 45 seconds when Orton ran out to his bus. His bus and his wife were more integral to the programming than the match. Why have the match? Why have the opponent he did? Why not just plug Tom Stone, Iron Mike Sharpe, Duane Gill, or any of the old regional WWF jobber brigade in there? It's not like WWE promoted the match during the program AT ALL (they did announce it as a "Wrestlemania rematch," which is only a half truth, like saying HHH vs HBK would be a "rematch" of the WM20 main event).But, hey, if you want to see your tag team champions (which are who again? The Corre? Santino/Kozlov? The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers?) drop their belts in a 3:30 match and then win them back the next week in a 3:50 match, be my guest. That kinda shit really drives ratings, doesn't it?
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Hey, kid. Stop with your snide elitist punk rock attitude. First of all (channeling my inner 16 year old), since you're someone who had no idea what ROH was three months ago, you've got no
ing place to have a snotty attitude. Quit bein' a poseur, and stop tucking your t-shirt in.
mykevermin
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Also, for the record, there's no way in hell this WM breaks a million PPV buys like the last 3-4 have. I predict this one doing under 900,000 buys. Maybe then you'll understand that WWE's business model is centered around hoping for a miracle rather than planning for the future.
The whole point of The Miz is that he doesn't deserve to be champion but keeps retaining anyway.
It's not like Rey or Punk's title reigns where they got their asses handed to them on a weekly basis. People have a legitimate gripe with them because they were weak looking faces.
It's not like Rey or Punk's title reigns where they got their asses handed to them on a weekly basis. People have a legitimate gripe with them because they were weak looking faces.
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mykevermin
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^ I'll give you that, diddy. But the problem that create is that there isn't a single person who thinks John cent won't absolutely murder Miz in their match. Booking moments like they did last Monday doesn't help matters much, either.
You don't think miz will retain, do you?
You don't think miz will retain, do you?
No, but the story has gone long enough I think. Miz is currently at 120 something days as champion - which is a ing eternity nowadays. (longer than any of The Rocks and all but two of Triple H's reigns)
It sucks that it has to be Cena to take him out..but it does bookend the Miz/Cena non-feud that started Miz' push towards the main event nicely.
ing eternity nowadays. (longer than any of The Rocks and all but two of Triple H's reigns)It sucks that it has to be Cena to take him out..but it does bookend the Miz/Cena non-feud that started Miz' push towards the main event nicely.
Vacabck
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[quote name='Ansé Solis']Lies.
Edge vs. Del Rio is a first time match this Wrestlemania. In fact their feud has been ALL build. Will you order it?
John Cena and Batista had a first time match at Summerslam. Did you order that?
I can go down the list and point out multiple cases where first time matches have happened on PPV, and more often than not, you would have skipped purchasing them regardless. Don't sell this nonsense about how would you "have a reason to buy PPV's" if there were no title matches on free TV.
The simple answer to all your woes is that there are very few wrestlers that excite you enough to make you want to spend your money. The booking isn't the problem. The wrestlers are.
In fact I will give you an extreme example of your b.s. stance. Ring of Honor has NO title matches on TV and the only way you can see them is to pay for their shows and purchase their iPPVs.
How many have you bought?[/QUOTE]
ROH? lol, to be honest, I could care less, I'm sure their product is just fine and well produced, but honestly, I don't have the time or the energy to search it out and watch it.
I haven't bought a wrestling PPV since, good lord how long has it been, has to be over 15 years now. They aren't worth it to me.
Sure Edge/Del Rio haven't met before, but I've seen enough of them on Raw/Smackdown to not really care enough to buy it, call it overexposure or what you will, but it really doesn't look like that interesting of a match because of the addition of Captain Charisma and that's a shame, cause I like Del Rio.
Hell, this Wrestlemania is shaping up as one of the lamest PPV cards I've seen in a long time, maybe Del Rio and Edge live up to the hype that they have tried to build, but I doubt it. I think we all know that HHH carrying around the Undertaker for a No Holds Barred match isn't going to be must see. Oh I know, I need to buy it for Snooki!!!! Nah, can see her on Monday nights too. Cena/Miz may work, but the build up to this match has gotten on my last nerve because of the involvement of The Rock. Cole/Lawler is the only match that I really want to see, and that is more because of the GDYC effect, in no way will it be a good match to watch, but it'll be entertaining to see just how irritating Cole will be.
Look, the PPV's just aren't as big of a deal anymore to me because of the overexposure of the superstars and the availability to watch big stars twice a week on basic cable. You think that WM III would have worked if we had seen Hogan body slamming Andre the Giant a couple weeks before the event?
Don't bother replying to this post, please. I enjoy following this thread and reading what folks have to say and occasionally posting something short, but to be honest, your posts I generally skip or just skim through.
Edge vs. Del Rio is a first time match this Wrestlemania. In fact their feud has been ALL build. Will you order it?
John Cena and Batista had a first time match at Summerslam. Did you order that?
I can go down the list and point out multiple cases where first time matches have happened on PPV, and more often than not, you would have skipped purchasing them regardless. Don't sell this nonsense about how would you "have a reason to buy PPV's" if there were no title matches on free TV.
The simple answer to all your woes is that there are very few wrestlers that excite you enough to make you want to spend your money. The booking isn't the problem. The wrestlers are.
In fact I will give you an extreme example of your b.s. stance. Ring of Honor has NO title matches on TV and the only way you can see them is to pay for their shows and purchase their iPPVs.
How many have you bought?[/QUOTE]
ROH? lol, to be honest, I could care less, I'm sure their product is just fine and well produced, but honestly, I don't have the time or the energy to search it out and watch it.
I haven't bought a wrestling PPV since, good lord how long has it been, has to be over 15 years now. They aren't worth it to me.
Sure Edge/Del Rio haven't met before, but I've seen enough of them on Raw/Smackdown to not really care enough to buy it, call it overexposure or what you will, but it really doesn't look like that interesting of a match because of the addition of Captain Charisma and that's a shame, cause I like Del Rio.
Hell, this Wrestlemania is shaping up as one of the lamest PPV cards I've seen in a long time, maybe Del Rio and Edge live up to the hype that they have tried to build, but I doubt it. I think we all know that HHH carrying around the Undertaker for a No Holds Barred match isn't going to be must see. Oh I know, I need to buy it for Snooki!!!! Nah, can see her on Monday nights too. Cena/Miz may work, but the build up to this match has gotten on my last nerve because of the involvement of The Rock. Cole/Lawler is the only match that I really want to see, and that is more because of the GDYC effect, in no way will it be a good match to watch, but it'll be entertaining to see just how irritating Cole will be.
Look, the PPV's just aren't as big of a deal anymore to me because of the overexposure of the superstars and the availability to watch big stars twice a week on basic cable. You think that WM III would have worked if we had seen Hogan body slamming Andre the Giant a couple weeks before the event?
Don't bother replying to this post, please. I enjoy following this thread and reading what folks have to say and occasionally posting something short, but to be honest, your posts I generally skip or just skim through.
Ansé Solis
Banned
[quote name='mykevermin']^ You're not particularly literate, son. I did not say no title matches on tv, I said fewer matches for champs altogether. Putting the champion in the ring should be a special thing, yet in the case of Edge he was in the opening match on Smackdown two weeks in a row. WWE's "First time" match ups are a fallacy of an argument, as they put them in 3-ways, 4-ways, and tag matches all leading up to the event. The last time WWE really went with a "these dudes aren't gonna touch each other" buildup has been Brock Lesnar vs The Rock during Summerslam (2002?). Also, look at what they're doing now with Michael Cole and Jerry Lawler - the buildup there has been the hottest thing leading up to Wrestlemania. Look also at Cena-Rock (which is the real feud, and not Cena-Miz). People are looking forward to them facing each other on tv. Why? Anticipation. If they had been in six tag matches indirectly facing each other since Rock returned, it wouldn't matter for shit, it would just be another opening segment. [/quote]
Wait. I don't understand. Isn't a contradiction on yourself when you say that they should go back to OLD style booking when that's exactly what you claim they're doing with Michael Cole/Lawler and Rock/Cena?
You're arguing Riley shouldn't get treated as a jobber? Okay. I would like to suggest that your fingers are firing off faster than your brain.
As far as I am concerned, The Miz is being booked to his strengths. He is not nearly the star that Rock and Cena are and he should be delegated to the background in this feud. They are the selling point. Not the Miz. Unless you want to argue that The Miz is the biggest name in this build? The Miz does not equal ratings but the company likes him enough to push him in the main event. That's the truth of the matter.
Nexus can't wrestle. They were killed off. Surprise, surprise. The company didn't want to give these glorified FCW guys a spot on Wrestlemania. Surprise, surprise.
You're arguing that the company should be booked like 1980 because PPV buys, live event sales, home video sales, and the movie sales became less profitable since 2009. Really? I think you should compare the business to when it was MOST profitable and make suggestions based upon that. Not make suggestions just because they reflect a time period you grew up with.
Do changes need to be made? Yes. Do your changes need to be made? Heck no! You're about as off in your own world as Dixie Carter is.
The facts I deal with are centered in reality. Yours are out of an incessant need to argue and not admit that you don't know what you're talking about.
Rhodes attacked Mysterio with his awesome facemask. Ziggler meanwhile got fired and came back on Raw. Got involved in a feud with Morrison and Snooki.
Justin Gabriel. Heath Slater. No Googling, good sir. Maybe if you didn't have your brain centered around, "I love Demolition. I love Demolition.", you'd be able to keep track of such things.
I think just mentioning ROH makes you go red in the face. It's really funny since you missed the point I made entirely, especially when it wasn't directed at you. And what t-shirt are you talking about? Are you insane?
Wait. I don't understand. Isn't a contradiction on yourself when you say that they should go back to OLD style booking when that's exactly what you claim they're doing with Michael Cole/Lawler and Rock/Cena?
You're arguing Riley shouldn't get treated as a jobber? Okay. I would like to suggest that your fingers are firing off faster than your brain.
As far as I am concerned, The Miz is being booked to his strengths. He is not nearly the star that Rock and Cena are and he should be delegated to the background in this feud. They are the selling point. Not the Miz. Unless you want to argue that The Miz is the biggest name in this build? The Miz does not equal ratings but the company likes him enough to push him in the main event. That's the truth of the matter.
Nexus can't wrestle. They were killed off. Surprise, surprise. The company didn't want to give these glorified FCW guys a spot on Wrestlemania. Surprise, surprise.
Blanket statements like "The WWE is doing better business than they were back then" show that you're not really thinking through your argument. Which then? The 1980's, when they were pushing the "Rock N' Wrestling Connection?" The mid-1990's then, when Vince had to beg Bret Hart to cancel his 20-year contract because he couldn't afford it? Or the past decade then, which has shown a slow but steady decline in revenue from all sources?
PPV buys in 2010 were down 25% from 2009 (can you imagine what it looks like to the owner of a business to discover their bread and butter revenue-generator is doing 3/4s what it did the year prior???), live event sales down in the range of 10%, home video sales went through the
You're arguing that the company should be booked like 1980 because PPV buys, live event sales, home video sales, and the movie sales became less profitable since 2009. Really? I think you should compare the business to when it was MOST profitable and make suggestions based upon that. Not make suggestions just because they reflect a time period you grew up with.
Do changes need to be made? Yes. Do your changes need to be made? Heck no! You're about as off in your own world as Dixie Carter is.
Aside from your broad brush of "I have an opinion on stuff, but I'm not factually informed yet won't let that get in the way of making my point," you overstate the importance of wrestling matches on tv ratings. Hey, who did Dolph Ziggler wrestle three weeks ago on Raw? Last week? How about what Cody Rhodes did on Smackdown last week? No googling, now; that wouldn't be fair. WWE programming teaches you to not give a flying
The facts I deal with are centered in reality. Yours are out of an incessant need to argue and not admit that you don't know what you're talking about.
Rhodes attacked Mysterio with his awesome facemask. Ziggler meanwhile got fired and came back on Raw. Got involved in a feud with Morrison and Snooki.
Justin Gabriel. Heath Slater. No Googling, good sir. Maybe if you didn't have your brain centered around, "I love Demolition. I love Demolition.", you'd be able to keep track of such things.
Hey, kid. Stop with your snide elitist punk rock attitude. First of all (channeling my inner 16 year old), since you're someone who had no idea what ROH was three months ago, you've got no
I think just mentioning ROH makes you go red in the face. It's really funny since you missed the point I made entirely, especially when it wasn't directed at you. And what t-shirt are you talking about? Are you insane?
OnyxPrimal
CAGiversary!
- Feedback
- 10 (100%)
Insane Clown Posse is doing an iPPV tonight for JCW... I'm sure you guys will line up to buy. 
Ansé Solis
Banned
[quote name='Vacabck']
ROH? lol, to be honest, I could care less, I'm sure their product is just fine and well produced, but honestly, I don't have the time or the energy to search it out and watch it.
I haven't bought a wrestling PPV since, good lord how long has it been, has to be over 15 years now. They aren't worth it to me.
Sure Edge/Del Rio haven't met before, but I've seen enough of them on Raw/Smackdown to not really care enough to buy it, call it overexposure or what you will, but it really doesn't look like that interesting of a match because of the addition of Captain Charisma and that's a shame, cause I like Del Rio.
Hell, this Wrestlemania is shaping up as one of the lamest PPV cards I've seen in a long time, maybe Del Rio and Edge live up to the hype that they have tried to build, but I doubt it. I think we all know that HHH carrying around the Undertaker for a No Holds Barred match isn't going to be must see. Oh I know, I need to buy it for Snooki!!!! Nah, can see her on Monday nights too. Cena/Miz may work, but the build up to this match has gotten on my last nerve because of the involvement of The Rock. Cole/Lawler is the only match that I really want to see, and that is more because of the GDYC effect, in no way will it be a good match to watch, but it'll be entertaining to see just how irritating Cole will be.
Look, the PPV's just aren't as big of a deal anymore to me because of the overexposure of the superstars and the availability to watch big stars twice a week on basic cable. You think that WM III would have worked if we had seen Hogan body slamming Andre the Giant a couple weeks before the event?
Don't bother replying to this post, please. I enjoy following this thread and reading what folks have to say and occasionally posting something short, but to be honest, your posts I generally skip or just skim through.[/QUOTE]
The point isn't that you SHOULD watch ROH.
I was pointing out the hypocrisy in the claim that what you say you want isn't what you're looking for because there are plenty of examples where companies, i.e, ROH or WWE, are giving you these things. In spite of that, you're not still happy with the product.
As it is, you clearly don't know what you want. You just know you don't like it.
Furthermore, I also enjoy following this thread and reading what folks have to say and occasionally posting something short, but to be honest, I don't care if you skip or skim through my posts. Healthy discussion is good instead of everyone parroting the same opinion without any thought.
ROH? lol, to be honest, I could care less, I'm sure their product is just fine and well produced, but honestly, I don't have the time or the energy to search it out and watch it.
I haven't bought a wrestling PPV since, good lord how long has it been, has to be over 15 years now. They aren't worth it to me.
Sure Edge/Del Rio haven't met before, but I've seen enough of them on Raw/Smackdown to not really care enough to buy it, call it overexposure or what you will, but it really doesn't look like that interesting of a match because of the addition of Captain Charisma and that's a shame, cause I like Del Rio.
Hell, this Wrestlemania is shaping up as one of the lamest PPV cards I've seen in a long time, maybe Del Rio and Edge live up to the hype that they have tried to build, but I doubt it. I think we all know that HHH carrying around the Undertaker for a No Holds Barred match isn't going to be must see. Oh I know, I need to buy it for Snooki!!!! Nah, can see her on Monday nights too. Cena/Miz may work, but the build up to this match has gotten on my last nerve because of the involvement of The Rock. Cole/Lawler is the only match that I really want to see, and that is more because of the GDYC effect, in no way will it be a good match to watch, but it'll be entertaining to see just how irritating Cole will be.
Look, the PPV's just aren't as big of a deal anymore to me because of the overexposure of the superstars and the availability to watch big stars twice a week on basic cable. You think that WM III would have worked if we had seen Hogan body slamming Andre the Giant a couple weeks before the event?
Don't bother replying to this post, please. I enjoy following this thread and reading what folks have to say and occasionally posting something short, but to be honest, your posts I generally skip or just skim through.[/QUOTE]
The point isn't that you SHOULD watch ROH.
I was pointing out the hypocrisy in the claim that what you say you want isn't what you're looking for because there are plenty of examples where companies, i.e, ROH or WWE, are giving you these things. In spite of that, you're not still happy with the product.
As it is, you clearly don't know what you want. You just know you don't like it.
Furthermore, I also enjoy following this thread and reading what folks have to say and occasionally posting something short, but to be honest, I don't care if you skip or skim through my posts. Healthy discussion is good instead of everyone parroting the same opinion without any thought.
pitfallharry219
CAGiversary!
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This fool stinks like Zen Davis with all the ROH fellatio. Checking his profile, the only person on his CAG friendlist is rickshankshaw, who we all know to be a ZD alt account. Maybe a mod should do an IP check.
Ansé Solis
Banned
[quote name='pitfallharry219']This fool stinks like Zen Davis with all the ROH fellatio. Checking his profile, the only person on his CAG friendlist is rickshankshaw, who we all know to be a ZD alt account. Maybe a mod should do an IP check.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they should do an IP check. Not rickshankshaw but I did a trade with him through CAG.
Apart from that. My fellatio is for professional wrestling. The majority of my discussion has been about WWE and the way it runs business. I'd love to see your take on the subject matter. I throw in an alternative company, see: ROH, from WWE and people's knees start to quiver. I'm just tired of how miserable some of you people are.
Wrestlemania will be GREAT! I can't believe how some of you can't see that. Miz/Cena/Rock has had a better build than almost all the matches since HBK/Undertaker 1. We've got the best heel character in Michael in years and he is going to get his from Jerry Lawler. Undertaker-Triple H is kind of a given and I think we all know Taker will win. I'm just confounded how some of you can't appreciate this.
I almost think they're going to run The Rock vs. John Cena vs. The Miz at Wrestlemania. That would be AMAZING!
Maybe they should do an IP check. Not rickshankshaw but I did a trade with him through CAG.
Apart from that. My fellatio is for professional wrestling. The majority of my discussion has been about WWE and the way it runs business. I'd love to see your take on the subject matter. I throw in an alternative company, see: ROH, from WWE and people's knees start to quiver. I'm just tired of how miserable some of you people are.
Wrestlemania will be GREAT! I can't believe how some of you can't see that. Miz/Cena/Rock has had a better build than almost all the matches since HBK/Undertaker 1. We've got the best heel character in Michael in years and he is going to get his from Jerry Lawler. Undertaker-Triple H is kind of a given and I think we all know Taker will win. I'm just confounded how some of you can't appreciate this.
I almost think they're going to run The Rock vs. John Cena vs. The Miz at Wrestlemania. That would be AMAZING!
steve nash
CAGiversary!
Rock will screw cena to set up rock/cena next year. Miz is awesome but will probably get uber owned by hhh
[quote name='mykevermin']^ I'll give you that, diddy. But the problem that create is that there isn't a single person who thinks John cent won't absolutely murder Miz in their match. Booking moments like they did last Monday doesn't help matters much, either.
You don't think miz will retain, do you?[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately you are right. Cena will retain and become Super Cena again. This is very unfortunate because imo the way you make The Miz and his title run credible, as well as get him over is have him beat Cena. We all know that won't happen though.
You don't think miz will retain, do you?[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately you are right. Cena will retain and become Super Cena again. This is very unfortunate because imo the way you make The Miz and his title run credible, as well as get him over is have him beat Cena. We all know that won't happen though.
Last edited by a moderator:
mykevermin
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='Ansé Solis']Wait. I don't understand. Isn't a contradiction on yourself when you say that they should go back to OLD style booking when that's exactly what you claim they're doing with Michael Cole/Lawler and Rock/Cena?[/quote]
They're announcers, and they have the best match buildup of anyone for WM. Announcers. They talk.
The champ is not the focal point of the feud because he's the least over, and you're going to treat that kind of booking as *sensible*? You're just trying to score points with me at this point, with no concern for how dadgum idiotic you come off.
Michael Cole. Snooki. WRESTLERS.
Besides, The Corre is slated to be booked for WM. If you wanna be a snippy cunt for workrate, be consistent.
Well, typically companies develop and implement new strategies when they discover their revenue sources are declining, yeah. That's how successful businesses operate. If you want to argue against that, fine. My point is simply that they need to make some aspects of their product more elite and therefore desired. Why pay to see Edge wrestle when you can see him do it for free every Friday night?
Think about why some of us, though we take HHH/UT for granted (in its outcome), are looking forward to seeing what they can do: neither of them have been in the ring in months (Triple H almost a year). The only allure to that match is rooted in seeing something we haven't seen on tv.
A company that doesn't respond to declining revenues is going to fail. WWE must respond. So, rather than just being a sniveling brat and oversimplifying what I'm saying as "going back to the 80's," why don't you tell us what brilliant changes you'd make to the program?
You got numbers from me, sweetheart. Revenue numbers. What WWE gives a shit about as a publicly traded corporation.
Who did he wrestle?
I'm well aware of who the tag champs are. The point is that the tag titles are beyond meaningless. TNA, when they try, has an incredible tag title scene. Slater and Gabriel are more on the level of Shannon Moore and Jesse Neal than coming anywhere close to Beer Money or MCMG. WWE's tag division is a shitshow of monumental proportions. That's why you can be assured that the tag champs will either not be defending the belts at WM27, while if they do, it will be a preshow curtain jerking match. At least Demolition got a prominent spot on the card. They helped make the tag titles mean something to the crowd.
ROH is just fine as a product, but an indy is an indy. They're just an indy with three folding tables of merch instead of one.
Your point started in with "your ideas suck" and opinions that oversimplified what I said and weren't rooted in the fiscal history of WWE on the whole. You only have a point in so much as your spage age fantasy is what really is going on in the world. Which is not the case.
They're announcers, and they have the best match buildup of anyone for WM. Announcers. They talk.
The champ is not the focal point of the feud because he's the least over, and you're going to treat that kind of booking as *sensible*? You're just trying to score points with me at this point, with no concern for how dadgum idiotic you come off.
Michael Cole. Snooki. WRESTLERS.
Besides, The Corre is slated to be booked for WM. If you wanna be a snippy cunt for workrate, be consistent.
Well, typically companies develop and implement new strategies when they discover their revenue sources are declining, yeah. That's how successful businesses operate. If you want to argue against that, fine. My point is simply that they need to make some aspects of their product more elite and therefore desired. Why pay to see Edge wrestle when you can see him do it for free every Friday night?
Think about why some of us, though we take HHH/UT for granted (in its outcome), are looking forward to seeing what they can do: neither of them have been in the ring in months (Triple H almost a year). The only allure to that match is rooted in seeing something we haven't seen on tv.
A company that doesn't respond to declining revenues is going to fail. WWE must respond. So, rather than just being a sniveling brat and oversimplifying what I'm saying as "going back to the 80's," why don't you tell us what brilliant changes you'd make to the program?
You got numbers from me, sweetheart. Revenue numbers. What WWE gives a shit about as a publicly traded corporation.
Who did he wrestle?
I'm well aware of who the tag champs are. The point is that the tag titles are beyond meaningless. TNA, when they try, has an incredible tag title scene. Slater and Gabriel are more on the level of Shannon Moore and Jesse Neal than coming anywhere close to Beer Money or MCMG. WWE's tag division is a shitshow of monumental proportions. That's why you can be assured that the tag champs will either not be defending the belts at WM27, while if they do, it will be a preshow curtain jerking match. At least Demolition got a prominent spot on the card. They helped make the tag titles mean something to the crowd.
ROH is just fine as a product, but an indy is an indy. They're just an indy with three folding tables of merch instead of one.
Your point started in with "your ideas suck" and opinions that oversimplified what I said and weren't rooted in the fiscal history of WWE on the whole. You only have a point in so much as your spage age fantasy is what really is going on in the world. Which is not the case.
B
Blackout
Guest
[quote name='Trakan']Did you see him on Jimmy Fallon a few months back? It was even worse. He was giddy the entire interview and talked about how he was on the Real World.[/QUOTE]
I didn't catch that one, and it doesn't seem to be on YouTube. I think him always bringing up the Real World helped him at first, but now it's just really hurting his credibility.
[quote name='diddy310']The whole point of The Miz is that he doesn't deserve to be champion but keeps retaining anyway.
It's not like Rey or Punk's title reigns where they got their asses handed to them on a weekly basis. People have a legitimate gripe with them because they were weak looking faces.[/QUOTE]
The thing with Miz not deserving the belt, well that would be a good angle if he were able to do things by himself most of the time to where people don't know how the hell he keeps winning. For example, a quick roll up, hits a finisher out of nowhere, maybe cheats once or twice here and there, etc. The idea would be that Miz isn't stronger than Orton, Cena, etc, but somehow that bastard keeps winning on his own (and maybe doing some Ric Flair style cheating). The fact is, I can't recall many matches where this was the case. He always needs his NXT jobber rookie, or the entire Nexus beating down Orton to win the title, or some sort of weapon. They've taken the chickenshit heel thing to the absolute extreme, and I think that was entirely the wrong way to build Miz up. Nobody takes him seriously.
With Rey and Punk, you know these guys are legit tough guys. Rey is a small guy who gets his ass beat all the time by bigger guys, but he always wins clean. CM Punk has the tough wrestling style with the kicks and stuff and has the insane guy gimmick. Miz doesn't have any of that. You know he's a reality star who then broke into wrestling. When he goes on talk shows and other media appearances he acts like a total dork and it feels like the hosts of the show, whether it be Conan or Fallon, can actually beat his ass and take the belt if they wanted to. I think back to what Kevin Nash said about Vince exposing the business, or whatever he said after Miz won the title. I think it's partially true. Even though wrestling is "fake", I don't think we can forget about those factors. They're still important in 2011.
I mean, if you saw Punk on the street, with his beard, tats, etc (well when he's in street clothes, he looks like a regular dude you would see here in Chicago going to Reckless Records or something), you would probably cross the street. He's an intimidating looking guy. What does Miz have going for him in that department? He's the world heavyweight champ for the biggest wrestling company in the world, yet I don't think many would think that he could win a fight, is a tough guy, or anything like that.
[quote name='Ansé Solis']
You're arguing Riley shouldn't get treated as a jobber? Okay. I would like to suggest that your fingers are firing off faster than your brain.
As far as I am concerned, The Miz is being booked to his strengths. He is not nearly the star that Rock and Cena are and he should be delegated to the background in this feud. They are the selling point. Not the Miz. Unless you want to argue that The Miz is the biggest name in this build? The Miz does not equal ratings but the company likes him enough to push him in the main event. That's the truth of the matter.
[/QUOTE]
Now would be the time to elevate Miz to the Cena and Rock status. He wouldn't get to the Rock level immediately, but this is the time to start. He needs that rub.
I was thinking that the Cena beatings they did were an OK way to get him over, but that went out the window when the guy literally ran away like he had to take a major shit when Cena stormed the ring last Monday (of course, after no selling that major ass kicking he took). He BOLTED to the back and disappeared. The guy is going to be in the main event at WrestleMania, and he ran away like Cena had a gun or a bomb on him.
The Miz doesn't equal ratings because most people realize he's a bitch who can't win a real fight. Since this is the case, they need to set him up in a way where he's destroying guys WITHOUT the help of his jockstrap lackey. I blame WWE entirely for this problem. Miz is bringing his load to the table, but the company isn't bringing theirs.
Like I've said before, the Miz has grown on me and I dig the guy, but man, he can't catch a break. You can tell he's trying his absolute best, so I feel for the guy. Miz is great on the mic and his ring work is getting better, but they need to help the guy get over as a physical threat.
As for the Corre mach at Mania....well that one is going to be a trainwreck. The only guy in that one who might be able to do anything is Barrett. Hopefully they regulate that one to 5 minutes or something.
I didn't catch that one, and it doesn't seem to be on YouTube. I think him always bringing up the Real World helped him at first, but now it's just really hurting his credibility.
[quote name='diddy310']The whole point of The Miz is that he doesn't deserve to be champion but keeps retaining anyway.
It's not like Rey or Punk's title reigns where they got their asses handed to them on a weekly basis. People have a legitimate gripe with them because they were weak looking faces.[/QUOTE]
The thing with Miz not deserving the belt, well that would be a good angle if he were able to do things by himself most of the time to where people don't know how the hell he keeps winning. For example, a quick roll up, hits a finisher out of nowhere, maybe cheats once or twice here and there, etc. The idea would be that Miz isn't stronger than Orton, Cena, etc, but somehow that bastard keeps winning on his own (and maybe doing some Ric Flair style cheating). The fact is, I can't recall many matches where this was the case. He always needs his NXT jobber rookie, or the entire Nexus beating down Orton to win the title, or some sort of weapon. They've taken the chickenshit heel thing to the absolute extreme, and I think that was entirely the wrong way to build Miz up. Nobody takes him seriously.
With Rey and Punk, you know these guys are legit tough guys. Rey is a small guy who gets his ass beat all the time by bigger guys, but he always wins clean. CM Punk has the tough wrestling style with the kicks and stuff and has the insane guy gimmick. Miz doesn't have any of that. You know he's a reality star who then broke into wrestling. When he goes on talk shows and other media appearances he acts like a total dork and it feels like the hosts of the show, whether it be Conan or Fallon, can actually beat his ass and take the belt if they wanted to. I think back to what Kevin Nash said about Vince exposing the business, or whatever he said after Miz won the title. I think it's partially true. Even though wrestling is "fake", I don't think we can forget about those factors. They're still important in 2011.
I mean, if you saw Punk on the street, with his beard, tats, etc (well when he's in street clothes, he looks like a regular dude you would see here in Chicago going to Reckless Records or something), you would probably cross the street. He's an intimidating looking guy. What does Miz have going for him in that department? He's the world heavyweight champ for the biggest wrestling company in the world, yet I don't think many would think that he could win a fight, is a tough guy, or anything like that.
[quote name='Ansé Solis']
You're arguing Riley shouldn't get treated as a jobber? Okay. I would like to suggest that your fingers are firing off faster than your brain.
As far as I am concerned, The Miz is being booked to his strengths. He is not nearly the star that Rock and Cena are and he should be delegated to the background in this feud. They are the selling point. Not the Miz. Unless you want to argue that The Miz is the biggest name in this build? The Miz does not equal ratings but the company likes him enough to push him in the main event. That's the truth of the matter.
[/QUOTE]
Now would be the time to elevate Miz to the Cena and Rock status. He wouldn't get to the Rock level immediately, but this is the time to start. He needs that rub.
I was thinking that the Cena beatings they did were an OK way to get him over, but that went out the window when the guy literally ran away like he had to take a major shit when Cena stormed the ring last Monday (of course, after no selling that major ass kicking he took). He BOLTED to the back and disappeared. The guy is going to be in the main event at WrestleMania, and he ran away like Cena had a gun or a bomb on him.
The Miz doesn't equal ratings because most people realize he's a bitch who can't win a real fight. Since this is the case, they need to set him up in a way where he's destroying guys WITHOUT the help of his jockstrap lackey. I blame WWE entirely for this problem. Miz is bringing his load to the table, but the company isn't bringing theirs.
Like I've said before, the Miz has grown on me and I dig the guy, but man, he can't catch a break. You can tell he's trying his absolute best, so I feel for the guy. Miz is great on the mic and his ring work is getting better, but they need to help the guy get over as a physical threat.
As for the Corre mach at Mania....well that one is going to be a trainwreck. The only guy in that one who might be able to do anything is Barrett. Hopefully they regulate that one to 5 minutes or something.
Well, this has been a most interesting happening. This comment seemed to have come from, the proverbial, left-field:
"Hey, kid. Stop with your snide elitist punk rock attitude. First of all (channeling my inner 16 year old), since you're someone who had no idea what ROH was three months ago, you've got no ing place to have a snotty attitude. Quit bein' a poseur, and stop tucking your t-shirt in."
I don't know who is this person named "Ansé Solis." However, a quick Google search on the name brings up a short list of results.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Ansé-Solis/1434201648
If the two are one in the same, then Mister Solis channeling "[his] inner 16-year-old" shouldn't be too difficult considering he graduated high school in 2010. During my tenure as an educator, there were few things more adorable than self-righteous kids role-playing as adults. Personally, I take more seriously the opinions of Myke and his scholarly pedigree over the opinions of a pharisaic 16-to-18-year-old.
But hey, I could be wrong, and there could be another "Ansé Solis" in the world.
—
So, Michael Cole referred to Josh Matthews, on Twitter, as a derogatory-word-for-a-homosexual.
http://rajah.com/base/node/22319
That is some awesome timing. I'm sure GLAAD is excited that it recently partnered with WWE. :lol:
"Hey, kid. Stop with your snide elitist punk rock attitude. First of all (channeling my inner 16 year old), since you're someone who had no idea what ROH was three months ago, you've got no ing place to have a snotty attitude. Quit bein' a poseur, and stop tucking your t-shirt in."
I don't know who is this person named "Ansé Solis." However, a quick Google search on the name brings up a short list of results.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Ansé-Solis/1434201648
If the two are one in the same, then Mister Solis channeling "[his] inner 16-year-old" shouldn't be too difficult considering he graduated high school in 2010. During my tenure as an educator, there were few things more adorable than self-righteous kids role-playing as adults. Personally, I take more seriously the opinions of Myke and his scholarly pedigree over the opinions of a pharisaic 16-to-18-year-old.
But hey, I could be wrong, and there could be another "Ansé Solis" in the world.
—
So, Michael Cole referred to Josh Matthews, on Twitter, as a derogatory-word-for-a-homosexual.
http://rajah.com/base/node/22319
That is some awesome timing. I'm sure GLAAD is excited that it recently partnered with WWE. :lol:
Is The Corre's match even official yet? Seems like it would be Kofi/Kane/Show vs. Slater/Gabriel/Barrett right now..which would be a decent opener.
Really wish they had built towards Kofi/Barrett - because that Trouble In Paradise countered into Wasteland was a great looking finish.
Really wish they had built towards Kofi/Barrett - because that Trouble In Paradise countered into Wasteland was a great looking finish.
Bret Hart's Bitter Art Auctions (for a good cause)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Cartoo...t=US_Solo_Sports_Fan_Shop&hash=item33665019ba
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Cartoo...t=US_Solo_Sports_Fan_Shop&hash=item3366502928
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Cartoo...t=US_Solo_Sports_Fan_Shop&hash=item33665019ba
http://cgi.ebay.com/Original-Cartoo...t=US_Solo_Sports_Fan_Shop&hash=item3366502928
Y'know, I appreciate the charity bit, and I even think Bret Hart has some pretty reasonable things to say about Hogan and Flair (moreso about Hogan) but his bitterness is going to kill him.
His Dad lived to be 88, there's no way I can see Bret hanging around for another 30+ years.
His Dad lived to be 88, there's no way I can see Bret hanging around for another 30+ years.
ShinSolidus
CAGiversary!
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I know how many of you guys like to kill TNA, so, for those who didn't see it, this is Hogan's take on the lack of progress:
So...thoughts, people?
So...thoughts, people?
mykevermin
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I think the goal for TNA should be to build a profitable, sustainable brand. I still think that anyone who truly believes TNA is profitable is out of their ing mind, no matter what dirt sheet writers or balance sheets say. Theoretically, it's impossible for TNA to be profitable.
But the goal right now should be to grow to a 2.0 rating in 12 months, build a more profitable business model, and work to create greater equity in the payscale.
I'd hire producers that don't want to follow a WWE production style, and invest a lot of time and money brainstorming a show format that is unique and helps promote the product, as the predictable flow/format of televised wrestling is something that WWE and TNA are both ignoring as major problems.
Hogan's right - it is hard. That doesn't mean the people in charge of making changes at TNA are doing a good, slow, job. They're still doing shitty work, they're still doing awful work.
ing mind, no matter what dirt sheet writers or balance sheets say. Theoretically, it's impossible for TNA to be profitable.But the goal right now should be to grow to a 2.0 rating in 12 months, build a more profitable business model, and work to create greater equity in the payscale.
I'd hire producers that don't want to follow a WWE production style, and invest a lot of time and money brainstorming a show format that is unique and helps promote the product, as the predictable flow/format of televised wrestling is something that WWE and TNA are both ignoring as major problems.
Hogan's right - it is hard. That doesn't mean the people in charge of making changes at TNA are doing a good, slow, job. They're still doing shitty work, they're still doing awful work.
I give Hogan credit (though I don't know how much of it was him) for having the balls to try live TV for Impact. It's the first real risk they'd taken, and though it failed, it's a step in a direction they hadn't tried before. I'd like to see them cut back the PPV's to 4 or 6 per year and build towards the massive supershows WWE used to do. Tape a months worth of shows, do a bunch of house shows, and build to a bi-monthly big event.
TNA is privately held, no? If they lose money, it's only their money and not shareholders. They're also stuck trying to compete with Vince when they should focus on being a solid #2 instead of taking down the billion dollar monolith. Go public, be accountable for failure, and get the hell out of Orlando.
TNA is privately held, no? If they lose money, it's only their money and not shareholders. They're also stuck trying to compete with Vince when they should focus on being a solid #2 instead of taking down the billion dollar monolith. Go public, be accountable for failure, and get the hell out of Orlando.
pitfallharry219
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='Michael Cole']I apologize to any and all who were offended by my tweet toward young Josh Mathews. It was obviously not meant the way it was taken.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm sure he totally meant it in a different way.
Yeah, I'm sure he totally meant it in a different way.
mykevermin
CAGiversary!
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Ugh. The big ol' baby "if I offended anyone" apology. How ing empty. I hate when people say that.
Youing offended lots of people. Own up to it without condition.
ing empty. I hate when people say that. You
ing offended lots of people. Own up to it without condition.
Purple Flames
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[quote name='JJSP'] and get the hell out of Orlando.[/QUOTE]
This. A few weeks back when they were in NC it did a lot for the presentation of the show. I mean the show itself was still ass, but the change of scenery was a breath of fresh air, not to mention the different crowd helped too.
This. A few weeks back when they were in NC it did a lot for the presentation of the show. I mean the show itself was still ass, but the change of scenery was a breath of fresh air, not to mention the different crowd helped too.
- Status
bread's done