The Official NFL Draft Thread

For all the mid-late round QB's you can name, I can name 5 more who never amounted to anything, just like Troy Smith won't. And Brett Favre right now still has a better arm than Troy Smith, so please, let's not go crazy with the Favre comparisons.

And Troy Smith is playing in Baltimore. Boy, that Brian Billick sure has a great record of developing young QB's. He sure built Chris Redman, a similar player to Smith (huge college numbers, mid round draft pick), into a stud. Man, Kyle Boller is all about being an awesome player too! The one thing you can point to when it comes to late round QB's developing into stars is the coaches they have around them. Billick and the Ravens staff has 0 history of developing young quarterbacks, regardless of where they are picked.
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']For all the mid-late round QB's you can name, I can name 5 more who never amounted to anything, just like Troy Smith won't. And Brett Favre right now still has a better arm than Troy Smith, so please, let's not go crazy with the Favre comparisons.

And Troy Smith is playing in Baltimore. Boy, that Brian Billick sure has a great record of developing young QB's. He sure built Chris Redman, a similar player to Smith (huge college numbers, mid round draft pick), into a stud. Man, Kyle Boller is all about being an awesome player too! The one thing you can point to when it comes to late round QB's developing into stars is the coaches they have around them. Billick and the Ravens staff has 0 history of developing young quarterbacks, regardless of where they are picked.[/QUOTE]

You noticed all the QB's you mentioned can't compare to Smith because they are white. A QB in this day and age in the NFL needs to have legs. They need to be very Mobile.

Also Any pick in the Draft is a gamble no matter how good they were in College. Some players make the leap to the NFL and fit right in. Yet the majority don't.
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']You noticed all the QB's you mentioned can't compare to Smith because they are white. A QB in this day and age in the NFL needs to have legs. They need to be very Mobile.

Also Any pick in the Draft is a gamble no matter how good they were in College. Some players make the leap to the NFL and fit right in. Yet the majority don't.[/quote]

Playing the race card? Peyton Manning isn't mobile and neither is Carson Palmer. Michael Vick is mobile as all hell, but he can't complete 60% of his passes.

But you're right about the gamble no matter what the pick. At this point nobody knows who's good and who's not. I just strongly feel that Smith is another Jason White or Eric Crouch...heck, possibly even a Danny Wuerffel
 
[quote name='crushtopher']Playing the race card? Peyton Manning isn't mobile and neither is Carson Palmer. Michael Vick is mobile as all hell, but he can't complete 60% of his passes.

But you're right about the gamble no matter what the pick. At this point nobody knows who's good and who's not. I just strongly feel that Smith is another Jason White or Eric Crouch...heck, possibly even a Danny Wuerffel[/QUOTE]

Yea but Payton Manning and Carson Palmer are good "True" QB's. The NFL has changed so much since the 90's where just about every QB was a True QB. Now with Defenses getting faster and faster the QB has to have some type of Mobility unless they are amazing QB's ( Manning ).
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']You noticed all the QB's you mentioned can't compare to Smith because they are white. A QB in this day and age in the NFL needs to have legs. They need to be very Mobile. [/quote]

I disagree.

Trent Green, Byron Leftwich, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Chad Pennington, Matt Hasselbeck, Marc Bulger, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Donovan doesn't even run much anymore.... some of those guys might have John Elway mobility, but not Randall Cunningham mobility.

The only really mobile QB's that start now are Vick and Vince Young.
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']You noticed all the QB's you mentioned can't compare to Smith because they are white. A QB in this day and age in the NFL needs to have legs. They need to be very Mobile.

Also Any pick in the Draft is a gamble no matter how good they were in College. Some players make the leap to the NFL and fit right in. Yet the majority don't.[/QUOTE]

I can't believe you brought up RACE into the QB discussion. That is just stupid right there. You go tell that to fucking Warren Moon.

[quote name='pimpinc333']Yea but Payton Manning and Carson Palmer are good "True" QB's. The NFL has changed so much since the 90's where just about every QB was a True QB. Now with Defenses getting faster and faster the QB has to have some type of Mobility unless they are amazing QB's ( Manning ).[/QUOTE]

Brad Johnson isn't mobile and not amazing and won a super bowl. Trent Dilfer is by far from amazing and wasn't mobile and he won a super bowl. You don't need fucking mobility at QB. All you need is fucking Great O-line to protect the QB long enough.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']
Brad Johnson isn't mobile and not amazing and won a super bowl. Trent Dilfer is by far from amazing and wasn't mobile and he won a super bowl. You don't need fucking mobility at QB. All you need is fucking Great O-line to protect the QB long enough.[/quote]Brad Johnson also had, by far, the best defense in the league, and only had to throw about 20 passes a game, and NOT lose it, rather than win it. Same for Dilfer. How good was Brad Johnson in Minnesota this year? He stunk, and was benched in favor of a 2nd round pick who was playing D1AA football a year earlier. QB's are only as good as the players they have around them, and their defense. A QB could throw for 500 yards and 5 TD's in a playoff game, but if his defense gives up 6 TD's, there's not much he can do about it, and yet, 15 years later, he'll be ripped for never winning the big game.
 
Does anyone else feel funny at the fact that the winning QB of the National Championship Chris Leak of Florida didn't even get drafted?
 
[quote name='cdeener']Does anyone else feel funny at the fact that the winning QB of the National Championship Chris Leak of Florida didn't even get drafted?[/quote]No, because he's under 6 feet tall, and doesn't have NFL caliber arm strength. Winning in college and putting up big numbers means absolutely nothing in the NFL game. Danny Wuerffel torched everybody as a Gator in the mid 90's, and he was a terrible NFL quarterback.
 
Denver's defense seems to be solid, 2 shutdown corners, 2 good ends, 1 1/2 good linebackers and arguebuly the best safety duo in the NFL. Now if Jay doesn't throw the football away....
 
[quote name='cdeener']Does anyone else feel funny at the fact that the winning QB of the National Championship Chris Leak of Florida didn't even get drafted?[/quote]



Shit. I forgot all about Chris leak. Damn that sucks for him...I dont think he will be able to get a walk on role anywhere. Not even as a backup.



Well I hope he studied all in college.....
 
[quote name='VanillaGorilla']Brad Johnson also had, by far, the best defense in the league, and only had to throw about 20 passes a game, and NOT lose it, rather than win it. Same for Dilfer. How good was Brad Johnson in Minnesota this year? He stunk, and was benched in favor of a 2nd round pick who was playing D1AA football a year earlier. QB's are only as good as the players they have around them, and their defense. A QB could throw for 500 yards and 5 TD's in a playoff game, but if his defense gives up 6 TD's, there's not much he can do about it, and yet, 15 years later, he'll be ripped for never winning the big game.[/QUOTE]

Man I was talking about the Brad Johnson who won the super bowl 5 years ago. You're talking about Brad Johnson today who's age has caught up to him. He was awesome during the TB Super Bowl Run. I still remember that throw he did to Jurvecious (sp) against the Eagles at Philly to capture the NFC Championship game. Pretty much it was balanced on both sides of the ball and thats how TB won the super bowl that season. Brooks, Barber, Sapp, Lynch, Kelly, Quarles, Oben, Christy, McCarrdell, Keyshawn, Jurvecious, Pittman, Dwight Smith, etc.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I disagree.

Trent Green, Byron Leftwich, Peyton Manning, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Chad Pennington, Matt Hasselbeck, Marc Bulger, Phillip Rivers, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger, Rex Grossman, Jake Delhomme, Donovan doesn't even run much anymore.... some of those guys might have John Elway mobility, but not Randall Cunningham mobility.

The only really mobile QB's that start now are Vick and Vince Young.[/QUOTE]

I just said you need some Mobility. I never said anyone was Vick Fast. I was talking about Manning, Marino, and Bledsoe Slow. All the QB's you mentioned have some type of wheels. Besides Manning of Course ;)
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']I can't believe you brought up RACE into the QB discussion. That is just stupid right there. You go tell that to fucking Warren Moon.



Brad Johnson isn't mobile and not amazing and won a super bowl. Trent Dilfer is by far from amazing and wasn't mobile and he won a super bowl. You don't need fucking mobility at QB. All you need is fucking Great O-line to protect the QB long enough.[/QUOTE]

I was just pointing out that Troy Smith got compared to 2 shitty QB's who happen to be white. So Don't go off and say i'm pulling a Race card. I will play a Race Card and say that White QB's make better True Quarterback's and Black QB's make better Scramble QB's. Is that about right? Yep it is.
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']I was just pointing out that Troy Smith got compared to 2 shitty QB's who happen to be white. So Don't go off and say i'm pulling a Race card. I will play a Race Card and say that White QB's make better True Quarterback's and Black QB's make better Scramble QB's. Is that about right? Yep it is.[/QUOTE]

Yea go tell that Steve Young, John Elway, Jake Plummer, Mark Brunell, Byron Leftwich, and Warren Moon :roll: . Yea i know you were comparing smith to redman and boller but i dont fucking care if they're white, black, hispanic, asian, w/e. If they suck, they fucking suck okay.
 
Does anyone want to talk about late picks that might turn out great? Let's get away from the needless bickering about potential busts and move back to the positive.

Guys picked on Day 2 that I think will make an impact in the next couple years.

Michael Bush (Louisville) -- monster back that will be a serviceable guy if he can stay healthy

Troy Smith (OSU) -- everything points to bust and a previous poster was correct that Baltimore sucks a developing quarterbacks but I think in the right coaching atmosphere he can develop into a good quarterback.

Steve Breaston (Michigan) -- I know, I know, Michigan wide receivers have had some tough times in the NFL lately but I kept thinking Amani Toomer every time I saw him play.

HB Blades (Pitt) -- The guy was great at Pitt. Not one of the best backers in this year's class but my gut says he'll have a longer career than everyone except for Patrick Willis.

Jordan Palmer (UTEP) -- The guy set all sorts of school records and he's Carson's little brother. Here's hoping that Carson rubbed off on him.

Nate Iloa (Hawaii) -- Wide load that reminds me of Christian Okoye. Gotta love a truly big back.

Nedu Ndukwe (Notre Dame) -- Might be a special teams player for a long time. He reminds me of Steve Tasker. Not the most athletically gifted and doesn't do any one thing extremely well but he has a high football IQ and seems to be in the right place at the right time.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Does anyone want to talk about late picks that might turn out great? Let's get away from the needless bickering about potential busts and move back to the positive.

Guys picked on Day 2 that I think will make an impact in the next couple years.

Michael Bush (Louisville) -- monster back that will be a serviceable guy if he can stay healthy

Troy Smith (OSU) -- everything points to bust and a previous poster was correct that Baltimore sucks a developing quarterbacks but I think in the right coaching atmosphere he can develop into a good quarterback.

Steve Breaston (Michigan) -- I know, I know, Michigan wide receivers have had some tough times in the NFL lately but I kept thinking Amani Toomer every time I saw him play.

HB Blades (Pitt) -- The guy was great at Pitt. Not one of the best backers in this year's class but my gut says he'll have a longer career than everyone except for Patrick Willis.

Jordan Palmer (UTEP) -- The guy set all sorts of school records and he's Carson's little brother. Here's hoping that Carson rubbed off on him.

Nate Iloa (Hawaii) -- Wide load that reminds me of Christian Okoye. Gotta love a truly big back.

Nedu Ndukwe (Notre Dame) -- Might be a special teams player for a long time. He reminds me of Steve Tasker. Not the most athletically gifted and doesn't do any one thing extremely well but he has a high football IQ and seems to be in the right place at the right time.[/QUOTE]

Michael Bush has potential. Hopefully, he isn't Eric Shelton (plays for Carolina) who has to fight off a lot of injuries. I'll wouldn't expect much from him til 08.

Troy Smith has the tools to play but needs to be groomed. McNair used to groomed Vince Young and look where he is today. Smith will most likely be the back up to McNair in 08 after Boller leaves and from there is iffy if he can be a starter in the NFL

Steve Breaston has a lot of possession WR in him. He does resemble a lot of Toomer as he runs very nice routes and has good hands. But unfortunately Michigan WRs haven't pan out too well (David Terrell, Tai Streets) and some are waiting and see (Braylon Edwards, Jason Avant).

H.B Blades could be a poor man's Al Wilson. Imo from a few Pitt games i saw, he's still learning the position and needs some seasoning. I'm not expecting too much from him though.

Jordan Palmer will be the Tim Hasselback of the Palmer brothers. He has great physical tools (6'5" 230lbs) but he's decision making and accuracy is his Achilles heel for him. Some of the scouts think he might be able to convert to TE would about 20 extra pounds to his frame. He has some football talent but he's a project though.

Don't know much about Nate Iloa, so i can't really say.

Nedu Ndukwe is a good depth player that play either safety position. He's more of a special teams player in the NFL
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']Yea go tell that Steve Young, John Elway, Jake Plummer, Mark Brunell, Byron Leftwich, and Warren Moon :roll: . Yea i know you were comparing smith to redman and boller but i dont fucking care if they're white, black, hispanic, asian, w/e. If they suck, they fucking suck okay.[/QUOTE]

You done lost your mind azn. Young, Elway, Plummer, Brunell all are fucking mobile you douche. I mean you can already say Troy Smith sucks because you already watched him play a couple NFL games :roll:

Also here is a perfect example for my Agruement on a Mobile QB. The whole Dallas Cowboys situation. Bledsoe and Romo. Bledsoe took soooo many sacks and Romo didn't. Nothing changed on the O Line also. Romo isn't the fastest QB ever but he has some mobility. That shit changes a lot of things.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']Yea go tell that Steve Young, John Elway, Jake Plummer, Mark Brunell, Byron Leftwich, and Warren Moon :roll: . Yea i know you were comparing smith to redman and boller but i dont fucking care if they're white, black, hispanic, asian, w/e. If they suck, they fucking suck okay.[/QUOTE]

I'll just put this to make you and me happy :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
 
[quote name='pimpinc333']You done lost your mind azn. Young, Elway, Plummer, Brunell all are fucking mobile you douche. I mean you can already say Troy Smith sucks because you already watched him play a couple NFL games :roll:

Also here is a perfect example for my Agruement on a Mobile QB. The whole Dallas Cowboys situation. Bledsoe and Romo. Bledsoe took soooo many sacks and Romo didn't. Nothing changed on the O Line also. Romo isn't the fastest QB ever but he has some mobility. That shit changes a lot of things.[/QUOTE]

you just dont get it huh. You said this

[quote name='pimpinc333'] I will play a Race Card and say that White QB's make better True Quarterback's and Black QB's make better Scramble QB's. Is that about right? Yep it is.[/QUOTE]

Plummer, Brunell, Elway, and Young weren't "true" QBs and they were white. And Leftwich and Moon weren't "scramble" QBs and they were black.
 
[quote name='primetime']The bears signed Leak as a FA. He'll probably make the squad.

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=3372[/QUOTE]

Over Griese and Orton? I doubt it.

One pick that was a steal was the Jags taking Mike Walker out of UCF in the 3rd round. He's 6' 2" and ran a 4.35 40 on a surgically repaired knee at the combine. He had 90 receptions for around 1200 yards last year. I really wish the Dolphins would've grabbed him.
 
[quote name='gofishn']Over Griese and Orton? I doubt it.

One pick that was a steal was the Jags taking Mike Walker out of UCF in the 3rd round. He's 6' 2" and ran a 4.35 40 on a surgically repaired knee at the combine. He had 90 receptions for around 1200 yards last year. I really wish the Dolphins would've grabbed him.[/quote]

Ah yeah, I forgot Griese was still on the roster. Leak might end up floating around the league for a while then if he's lucky. Frankly, I don't think Troy Smith will amount to much either, but he wasn't a bad pick as late as the Ravens snagged him.
 
[quote name='primetime']Ah yeah, I forgot Griese was still on the roster. Leak might end up floating around the league for a while then if he's lucky. Frankly, I don't think Troy Smith will amount to much either, but he wasn't a bad pick as late as the Ravens snagged him.[/QUOTE]

I love the Gators but I knew Leak wouldn't get drafted. He's pretty inconsistent. I remember he did have that good Sophmore or Junior year where he was in contention for the heisman.
 
Did Chris Leak's stock drop more because of his inconsistency or Tim Tebow's potential? I liked Chris Leak more than alot of the quarterbacks coming out this year but I think too many people kept comparing him to Tim Tebow.
 
[quote name='depascal22']Did Chris Leak's stock drop more because of his inconsistency or Tim Tebow's potential? I liked Chris Leak more than alot of the quarterbacks coming out this year but I think too many people kept comparing him to Tim Tebow.[/QUOTE]

inconsistency, type of offense he played, and leadership.
 
I am not a Keyshawn Johnson fan but...

I thought he was AWESOME during the draft on ESPN. He seemed like a complete natural up there on the stage breaking down picks. It's kind of fucked up that he was released. I think he would be great as an analyst though.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I am not a Keyshawn Johnson fan but...

I thought he was AWESOME during the draft on ESPN. He seemed like a complete natural up there on the stage breaking down picks. It's kind of fucked up that he was released. I think he would be great as an analyst though.[/QUOTE]

Yea He said fuck you to Mel Kiper about Dwayne Jarrett being the next Mike Williams.
 
I'm tired of Mel Kiper. He's built up alot of hype around himself but he's proven to know about as much as anyone else. One player he'll say they have unbeatable combine numbers and then another player he'll laud even though they have crappy numbers. He's pretty much admitting this whole thing is a crapshoot so why should we listen to him? Does anyone know if he's ever done any scouting or coaching? Has Mel Kiper played the game at a higher level than high school?


Keyshawn's a natural and I can't wait for him to be a studio analyst.



One more thing about Chris Leak......Wouldn't anybody be inconsistent if they had Tim Tebow looming over them. It seemed like anytime Leak got into a rhythm but made one mistake, people were calling for his head. I hate to bring up the race card, but would people have acted the same way if Leak was white and Tebow was black? It seemed like Leak was the redheaded stepchild while Tebow was Urban Meyer's "real son".
 
[quote name='depascal22']I'm tired of Mel Kiper. He's built up alot of hype around himself but he's proven to know about as much as anyone else. One player he'll say they have unbeatable combine numbers and then another player he'll laud even though they have crappy numbers. He's pretty much admitting this whole thing is a crapshoot so why should we listen to him? Does anyone know if he's ever done any scouting or coaching? Has Mel Kiper played the game at a higher level than high school?[/quote]

I don't think Mel Kiper has ever done anything besides run his mouth.

And his hair still freaks me out.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I don't think Mel Kiper has ever done anything besides run his mouth.

And his hair still freaks me out.[/quote]

Next year, he's gonna have to pull out the Trump comb-over.
 
The cutting of Keyshawn really irked me considering they have yet to prove that any of the young wide recievers they have can catch the ball. Carter is good and Jarrett could be good, but since they already paid the roster bonus they should have waited a year before forcing the issue.

And just because you don't make the roster doesn't mean they can't keep you. Leak could end up being put on the practice squad.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']The cutting of Keyshawn really irked me considering they have yet to prove that any of the young wide recievers they have can catch the ball. Carter is good and Jarrett could be good, but since they already paid the roster bonus they should have waited a year before forcing the issue.[/quote]

Good point. Here you had a guy that was willing to show Jarrett the ropes of being an NFL receiver and then you cut him. Keyshawn could've been the veteran glue that got the team through the season.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']The cutting of Keyshawn really irked me considering they have yet to prove that any of the young wide recievers they have can catch the ball. Carter is good and Jarrett could be good, but since they already paid the roster bonus they should have waited a year before forcing the issue.

And just because you don't make the roster doesn't mean they can't keep you. Leak could end up being put on the practice squad.[/QUOTE]


I dont think Carter is good imho. He has potential as a deep threat but he's terrible at the route running, hands, and consistent play. I agree Keyshawn should had stayed after the roster bonus took effect and would've tutor Jarrett to be his successor.

Leak can stay on the bears' practice squad only if he has been cut and the 31 other teams didn't pick him off of waivers.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']The cutting of Keyshawn really irked me considering they have yet to prove that any of the young wide recievers they have can catch the ball. Carter is good and Jarrett could be good, but since they already paid the roster bonus they should have waited a year before forcing the issue.

And just because you don't make the roster doesn't mean they can't keep you. Leak could end up being put on the practice squad.[/QUOTE]

Yea I thought it was crazy that they paid the man the 3 Mil roster bonus a week ago then cut him. They could have kept himn one more season since him and Jarrett are the same type of player. Keyshawn could of helped the young Receiver.
 
When asked about being released, Keyshawn responded, "Give me a damn job."

lol jk, but its pretty ironic that he commented on Jarrett as being like him and then getting released days later.
 
[quote name='H-Town Info']I dont think Carter is good imho. He has potential as a deep threat but he's terrible at the route running, hands, and consistent play. I agree Keyshawn should had stayed after the roster bonus took effect and would've tutor Jarrett to be his successor.

Leak can stay on the bears' practice squad only if he has been cut and the 31 other teams didn't pick him off of waivers.[/QUOTE]

Carter has potential because he is incredibly fast. He is getting better, but he isn't close to where he needs to be.
 
[quote name='Weedy649']When asked about being released, Keyshawn responded, "Give me a damn job."

lol jk, but its pretty ironic that he commented on Jarrett as being like him and then getting released days later.[/QUOTE]

I'll applaude that:applause: :applause: :applause: Good Stuff Weedy. Good Stuff.
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Carter has potential because he is incredibly fast. He is getting better, but he isn't close to where he needs to be.[/quote]Troy Williamson is also "incredibly fast", and he has been a bust of epic proportions so far, so much so that the Vikings have tried adjusting his face mask AND sending him to the Nike Worldwide Headquarters and testing his vision.
 
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