The Star Trek III (Back from the Dead) Thread

[quote name='shrike4242']Hey, don't blame me if someone else gets the order wrong. ;)[/QUOTE]

Not directed at you, I was just being lazy.
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']OMG...that was super funny!

:applause:[/QUOTE]

If you haven't, you should see his SW prequel reviews. They're even better and funnier, though I love the giant plot hole with the arrow in the second half of the Generations review.

I don't think he touched on half of what made Generations awful, but it's a good start. I've always hated that movie.

[quote name='ITDEFX']
Just weird though...... Does Sci fi channel (refuse to call it that new name) have the rights to broadcast Insurrection and Nemesis forever?
[/QUOTE]

Why would anyone want those rights?
 
Except for the shitty ending, I actually didn't mind Nemesis. And Insurrection had my favorite bit of dialog.

It's such a shame they couldn't have done a DS9 collaboration instead of Insurrection. Just think of where we'd be today.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Except for the shitty ending, I actually didn't mind Nemesis. And Insurrection had my favorite bit of dialog.

It's such a shame they couldn't have done a DS9 collaboration instead of Insurrection. Just think of where we'd be today.[/QUOTE]

umm


in the same place we are now...
 
[quote name='blandstalker']If you haven't, you should see his SW prequel reviews. They're even better and funnier, though I love the giant plot hole with the arrow in the second half of the Generations review.

I don't think he touched on half of what made Generations awful, but it's a good start. I've always hated that movie.



Why would anyone want those rights?[/QUOTE]


I just started watching the SW Prequel ones.... I watched Generations - Nemesis.......now that was some funny shit.

As for the rights,....By getting some star trek movies, people will watch more sci fi hence their ratings will go up and advertisers will sell more ad times for their shit and everyone's happy!
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']umm


in the same place we are now...[/QUOTE]

Disagree. While the reboot would have become inevitable eventually, the franchise might have seen better returns at the BO and in turn delivered better efforts. Riker might not have gotten fat and we might have had the Titan movie almost everyone wanted.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']Disagree. While the reboot would have become inevitable eventually, the franchise might have seen better returns at the BO and in turn delivered better efforts. Riker might not have gotten fat and we might have had the Titan movie almost everyone wanted.[/QUOTE]


you mean the Titan TV Show?
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']:whistle2:s

HUH?

Don't you mean on the big screen instead of HD? Honestly it was a real visual treat to see the Enterprise D in the theater filling up a movie theater screen.[/QUOTE]

Film is a high definition format.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']No.[/QUOTE]


I seriously doubt there would have been a Titan Movie... makes no sense to do that without a TV series first.... wait let me re-think that... Alien Nation was a movie then became a TV show.


btw...the digital bits has reported that the sampler disc of the remastered TNG episodes will contain 4 episodes

Encounter at Far Point Part 1 and 2.
Sins of the Father
The Inner Light

ummm.......... Ok Sins of the Father and The Inner Light were some of the great episodes in terms of writing/story, but visual effects wise....hmmm..

The matte paintings stand up pretty well even to this day, but I am pretty sure they will redo that for the Klingon City.

Same with the town Picard lives in for the Inner light episode.

There are so many other episodes that could have been used as a demo.

"Where no one has gone before" would have been a good demo for season 1

"Tin man" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" would be two for season 3 in terms of VFX.

and of course "Cause and Effect" for season 5.


These demos better be amazing and well worth it, other wise fans are going to be pissed off and Paramount won't make as much money as they thought they would. This is going to be very expensive (150-200) per season.
 
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[quote name='ITDEFX']
As for the rights,....By getting some star trek movies, people will watch more sci fi hence their ratings will go up and advertisers will sell more ad times for their shit and everyone's happy![/QUOTE]

I can't tell if you're being ironic :)

Insurrection is okay -- it's more a wasted opportunity than a bad movie -- but Nemesis is downright awful, frequently battling Star Trek V for the title of worst ST movie.

They'd be better off showing the shows.

[Checks SyFy schedule]

Seriously? Jeez. I don't get SyFy anymore in Canada. We have Space. They show TOS, Next Gen, DS9, and Voyager daily. As well as Stargate, Stargate Atlantis, Doctor Who, and Torchwood.

I suppose Nemesis is better than marathons of their paranormal/ghost crap. Maybe. You know, you really should call them SyFy since they don't show sci-fi anymore. I thought they sucked for canceling Eureka, but I had no idea it was this bad.
 
The dune buggy scene in Nemesis is probably the biggest eyeroller of all possible eyerollers in the ST films. I'm usually okay about going with the flow until the film's over, and then when the credits roll I turn into a catty bitch, but I had my head buried in my hands during the dune buggy.

It made no sense in the moment. It was the stupidest thing ever. I can't watch that movie again, not even for funsies, because of that stupid dune buggy scene. Never, never, ever. Maybe if rifftrax did something on it, but they're more into the TOS characters, though their take on the "reboot" made that movie slightly tolerable.

The biggest disappointment in Nemesis is that the guy behind Shinzon wasted a pretty good performance (material considered) on that movie. He was a good villain. Again, the circumstances were weird, but that guy did the best with what they gave him.
 
[quote name='dothog']The dune buggy scene in Nemesis is probably the biggest eyeroller of all possible eyerollers in the ST films. I'm usually okay about going with the flow until the film's over, and then when the credits roll I turn into a catty bitch, but I had my head buried in my hands during the dune buggy.

It made no sense in the moment. It was the stupidest thing ever. I can't watch that movie again, not even for funsies, because of that stupid dune buggy scene. Never, never, ever. Maybe if rifftrax did something on it, but they're more into the TOS characters, though their take on the "reboot" made that movie slightly tolerable.

The biggest disappointment in Nemesis is that the guy behind Shinzon wasted a pretty good performance (material considered) on that movie. He was a good villain. Again, the circumstances were weird, but that guy did the best with what they gave him.[/QUOTE]

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/star-trek-nemesis/
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/star-trek-nemesis/[/QUOTE]

That's the Phantom Menace guy. I knew he was a ST fan from the PM review ("What's with Ricks?"), but I never kept up with his other reviews. Now I look up in the rest of the thread and see he's been linked recently.

He absolutely kills Nemesis. All the TNG movies are pretty lackluster, so it's not like they aren't deserve it, but *man* does he kill it, though I'm only 15 min through that review. That's great. I love "Riker even played a fuckin trumpet!"

I don't know how I'm going to get through all these long-ass reviews, but I will eventually.

EDIT: He just commented on the dune buggy. He's speaking for all of us, it's exactly what we were thinking: "Why is there a dune buggy in a star trek movie? This is real, this is actually happening."
 
Jonathan Frakes: I think what the audience wants Star Trek to be an action movie.

"Wrong! Wrong you asshole, wrong!"

The best part is where he compares and contrasts the action in Nemesis to the TNG episode Power Play. A walk down a corridor was more tense and impactful than any of the action in Nemesis.
 
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[quote name='dafoomie']Jonathan Frakes: I think what the audience wants Star Trek to be an action movie.

"Wrong! Wrong you asshole, wrong!"

The best part is where he compares and contrasts the action in Nemesis to the TNG episode Power Play. A walk down a corridor was more tense and impactful than any of the action in Nemesis.[/QUOTE]


LOL and I was just watching power play last night on netflix.
 
star-trek-45-years-110908e-02.jpg
 
I was okay with Vulcan blowing up because it was in a movie that will lead to nothing but a few other movies. Exploring the culture of Vulcan would have been a topic for some TV episodes, but not for any movies. If they kicked off a new TV series with the destruction of Vulcan, then that may have been some careless storytelling. But in a movie with a clean canon slate, I say why not?

[quote name='ITDEFX']btw...the digital bits has reported that the sampler disc of the remastered TNG episodes will contain 4 episodes

Encounter at Far Point Part 1 and 2.
Sins of the Father
The Inner Light

ummm.......... Ok Sins of the Father and The Inner Light were some of the great episodes in terms of writing/story, but visual effects wise....hmmm..

The matte paintings stand up pretty well even to this day, but I am pretty sure they will redo that for the Klingon City.

Same with the town Picard lives in for the Inner light episode.

There are so many other episodes that could have been used as a demo.

"Where no one has gone before" would have been a good demo for season 1

"Tin man" or "Yesterday's Enterprise" would be two for season 3 in terms of VFX.

and of course "Cause and Effect" for season 5.


These demos better be amazing and well worth it, other wise fans are going to be pissed off and Paramount won't make as much money as they thought they would. This is going to be very expensive (150-200) per season.[/QUOTE]I'm assuming it's because of the lack of crazy effects that they went with that set of episodes. They probably just wanted to get some high-def transfers out there ASAP without having to do a ton of reconstructing. It could be effective as a decent tease. Like "hey, see how good this can look? Now imagine 'Best of Both Worlds'!"

How exactly are they getting this sampler disc out though? Is it just a retail product that will be sold in stores? It would be kind of dumb to gauge people's interest based on the sales of a sampler disc. I mean the whole point of buying it would be to "support" the project, so that they can release the seasons and render the disc you just bought completely useless... it's a paradox!
 
"Get that cheese to sick bay"

... I don't know that I'm going to be able to complete Voyager... Right after that episode? fuckin' flying VW Beetle. I turned that episode off entirely.

I'm thinking I may cherry pick episodes on Voyager; It had a few really interesting episodes/arcs, but so much if it is just meh.
 
[quote name='BustaUppa']I was okay with Vulcan blowing up because it was in a movie that will lead to nothing but a few other movies. Exploring the culture of Vulcan would have been a topic for some TV episodes, but not for any movies. If they kicked off a new TV series with the destruction of Vulcan, then that may have been some careless storytelling. But in a movie with a clean canon slate, I say why not?

I'm assuming it's because of the lack of crazy effects that they went with that set of episodes. They probably just wanted to get some high-def transfers out there ASAP without having to do a ton of reconstructing. It could be effective as a decent tease. Like "hey, see how good this can look? Now imagine 'Best of Both Worlds'!"

How exactly are they getting this sampler disc out though? Is it just a retail product that will be sold in stores? It would be kind of dumb to gauge people's interest based on the sales of a sampler disc. I mean the whole point of buying it would be to "support" the project, so that they can release the seasons and render the disc you just bought completely useless... it's a paradox![/QUOTE]

Studios have released "best of"..."Fan Favorite" episodes on a disc before...examples include B:TAS, Ghostbusters, Night Court, Transformers and so on before going ahead with the seasons.

If I were doing a presentation to the execs at Paramount, I would need to show them if this is really worth it. I would pick out some of the fan favorites that had some pretty good special effects and work on those episodes. I think i read somewhere the budget for TNG was like a million per episode, so for less than 100k an episode they can go back and redo the special effects (external ship shots, matte paintings, and so on) to make a good impression. You would have to present the numbers to the execs on how much it would cost to redo the effects, how long it would take and how much they would need to charge to recover the cost of the project.

I am really hoping it's being done by industry professionals and not some college kids... I think the guy who did the enterprise d model for the finale of ENT was some fan boy who "got lucky".
 
The Lieutenant wasn't a police drama, it was a drama about the Marines. Rodenberry wrote scripts for Dragnet but it wasn't his show.
 
Ideas for the Star Trek Sequel:
Wrath-of-Khan-ify it...

...meaning
make some hot actress a young Carol Marcus, and Kirk and her hook up (obviously)

then add a Klingon proverb (only Nixon could go to China, new version: only Bush could start a war about oil)
 
[quote name='CaptainKirk']Ideas for the Star Trek Sequel:
Wrath-of-Khan-ify it...

...meaning
make some hot actress a young Carol Marcus, and Kirk and her hook up (obviously)

then add a Klingon proverb (only Nixon could go to China, new version: only Bush could start a war about oil)[/QUOTE]


that's the stupidest idea I have ever heard! However if RB was still in charge of Star Trek, I am sure he would go for it...
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']that's the stupidest idea I have ever heard! However if RB was still in charge of Star Trek, I am sure he would go for it...[/QUOTE]

You've got better?...

...oh thats right no
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']that's the stupidest idea I have ever heard! However if RB was still in charge of Star Trek, I am sure he would go for it...[/QUOTE]

Yes.
 
[quote name='CaptainKirk']Ideas for the Star Trek Sequel:
Wrath-of-Khan-ify it...

...meaning
make some hot actress a young Carol Marcus, and Kirk and her hook up (obviously)

then add a Klingon proverb (only Nixon could go to China, new version: only Bush could start a war about oil)[/QUOTE]

[quote name='ITDEFX']that's the stupidest idea I have ever heard! However if RB was still in charge of Star Trek, I am sure he would go for it...[/QUOTE]

[quote name='CaptainKirk']You've got better?...

...oh thats right no[/QUOTE]

Oh good, another CaptainKirk vs. ITDEFX fight.

Kind of like watching Kirk vs. the Gorn....carry on!...
 
[quote name='keithp']Oh good, another CaptainKirk vs. ITDEFX fight.

Kind of like watching Kirk vs. the Gorn....carry on!...[/QUOTE]

Yeah that guy doesnt give up, he made a signature of me insulting him and winning and argument, makes no sense
 
[quote name='CaptainKirk']You've got better?...

...oh thats right no[/QUOTE]


The reason why I called your idea stupid is that there is NO POINT in introducing Carol Marcus or Khan for the next movie to mirror Star Trek 2... Kirk hasn't done anything that would make Khan go after him (exile him to CA V). The writers are pretty much taking the series in another direction rather than Mirroring TOS. We don't need another WoK movie, but I agree it's really hard for them to come up with some good ideas that haven't been done in the series/movies.

Instead the new movie(s) should take us to places mentioned in TOS but we never saw much of.

Remember the destruction of Vulcan will have severe impact on the quadrant. I doubt the surviving Vulcan's know Nero and Crew was from an alternate reality/time line. All everyone pretty much knows that a bunch of Romulans with a superweapon destroyed Vulcan. I have no doubt once the survivors regroup, they will strike back at the Romulans , causing a Vulcan/Romulan war.


So forget your bush oil war/Carol idea.... think more realistically , and less fan boy wannabe.

;)
 
I need help...

...I want to re-name my Xbox 360 HDD something Star Trek like (its current name is Unimatrix Zero)

Any ideas? (might be something in it for a person if I pick your idea)
 
[quote name='ITDEFX']that's the stupidest idea I have ever heard! However if RB was still in charge of Star Trek, I am sure he would go for it...[/QUOTE]

Co-signed.
 
I don't know if it's a healthy discussion, but since keith put the vid up, I've gotta say it: I've never understood Star Wars mania.

I grew up when it was at a fever pitch, and while I enjoyed the movies/toys, I felt like it was something I grew out of once I discovered other novels and films to act as outlets for that scifi/fantasy itch. Since the age of 9, it's felt like "kiddy" material to me. The Ewoks are a big example of something that was a turning point for me, that's when I knew I had changed as a scifi/fantasy consumer, because when I first saw the Ewoks on Return's release, I thought "This is for little kids" in the way that kids do. You know, in differentiating the world into little kid, big kid, and grown up aspects.

The reaction against the prequels and Lucas's edits has always surprised me. Not in the sense that people are saying, "This is bad," because I can see that it's bad, but just in the sense that they seem to have expected more. And I don't understand that. The 9-year in me was wondering of these people, "It's fucking kid movies, the Ewoks established that, what did you expect?"

I'm not saying the bulk of Star Trek material is particularly mature, but most of it is aiming much higher than Star Wars. People go on about how mature and moving Empire was, but to me, if you stack that next to Wrath of Khan, which came out right around the same time, there's no comparison in terms of quality and depth. Khan is a thoughtful movie for grown ups with a few action conventions, Empire is an action movie with a few grown up conventions.

Again, this is just my opinion, do not get riled, internets.
 
[quote name='dothog']Again, this is just my opinion, do not get riled, internets.[/QUOTE]

Ooh, are you gonna catch it! ;)

I get what you are saying. But I think comparing them is apples and oranges.

As a kid, I loved Star Wars and thought Star Trek was boring. Round the 'tweens, this started to change. I appreciated the depth of Star Trek and the storytelling. How could three movies compete against multiple series that went on and on?

And that's part of the issue. You can't really compare them. Trek has all its history and hundreds of filmed hours. It has a depth Star Wars can never touch (and I am deliberately excluding all the novels, games, and extra/extended hoohah). Wrath of Khan is a great movie, but it doesn't exist in a vacuum; without the history and legacy of Trek and its characters, it never would have worked.

But what Star Wars does, it does very very well. Star Wars is much more mythic than Star Trek. It has to tell its story in hours, and in doing so has to do it in very different ways. Star Wars has a look and feel like no other and, frankly, Star Trek could still learn a lot from the archetypes, visual storytelling, and universe building.

The prequels...there's so much wrong with them, I don't even know where to start. They lost the magic and confused spectacle with depth. Lucas had to create a universe on a budget in Star Wars, so he had to be very careful and smart about everything. With CGI and the ability to do anything, he lost the nuance, the mystery, and the depth that only careful planning and resourceful reasoning can bring about.

Enjoy both and appreciate what they bring to the table. While Return of the Jedi is not as strong as the first two films, I certainly don't begrudge it. And I hate the prequels for the same reason I hate Voyager: they suck.
 
Regarding Star Wars, I ended up seeing the 2nd movie in the new Star Wars trilogy launch night at midnight with a group of friends years and years ago. Every seat in the theater was filled - there were LINES outside full of people camping out all day to see the movie.

What I'm trying to say is this was a hardcore Star Wars crowd. At the finale of the second film,
when Anakin has the fight with Dooku with the two light sabers
The entire theater erupted in applause - it was a pretty awesome moment for the crowd. Then,
when yoda drew his lightsaber to fight Dooku
the crowd somehow got EVEN MORE excited! "Holy shit, this is going to be awesome", they thought... How wrong they were. Over the course of the battle, the din in the theater slowly started to quiet.. until the entire theater had this awkward silence, then sparse derisive laughter was heard. It was an interesting moment.. 200 people simultaneously becoming uncomfortable at how lame the climax of the movie was.

When I watched the third movie in the new Star Wars trilogy, i imagined that someone on the production team went "Oh shit, we need to tie up about 100 loose ends and we only have a little bit of film left" because the last half hour of revenge of the sith is a bunch of seriously overreaching plot points in rapid sequence trying to force the new trilogy mesh with the old one - since the new trilogy went off the rails more than a few times; Somehow, the prequels tried so hard and didn't try at all at the same time on making the new fit the spirit of the old - to me, the movies just kept saying 'See, SEE! this trilogy totally set the stage for the original movies... ..." when a familiar character or concept showed up.

In any event.. the Star Wars trilogy AND the prequels were good popcorn flicks - the movies weren't all that deep, but they're pretty fun to watch for what they are.

The Star Wars GAMES fleshed out the universe way more for me than the movies ever did - the Jedi Knight games, Kotor 1/2, and even Star Wars Galaxies (in terms of the universe, not necessarily gameplay) made Star Wars interesting. The universe is neat, but the movies aren't responsible for that - the books and games fleshed things out - the movies are sparse in comparison.
 
[quote name='docvinh']Oh yeah, you have to figure 100-150 per season, if not more to start out.[/QUOTE]

Paramount overpriced the series at 100+ when they first came out.... wishful thinking me hopes that paramount will do a trade in program to get credit towards the blus ...but yeah right. :(
 
I can't imagine caring about HD vs non-HD for Star Trek. Star Trek certainly had some special effects, but I don't think that the scale and scope of the special effects warrant the HD price tag.

The most recent movie? Totally worth it in HD. Movies like Iron Man and Spider man? Totally worth it in HD. Movies where most of the program is people walking down hallways or sitting in chairs? Not worth HD.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']I can't imagine caring about HD vs non-HD for Star Trek. Star Trek certainly had some special effects, but I don't think that the scale and scope of the special effects warrant the HD price tag.

The most recent movie? Totally worth it in HD. Movies like Iron Man and Spider man? Totally worth it in HD. Movies where most of the program is people walking down hallways or sitting in chairs? Not worth HD.[/QUOTE]

You too shall be assimilated.
 
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