The "Stay Classy, Republicans" Super Nintendo Chalmers Thread

[quote name='depascal22']We're saying that we have no idea why cons hold him up as the ideal Republican. [/QUOTE]

Well that's the easiest question in the world to answer: He is held up because he was able to win elections! He not just won the presidency, but he won re-election in an unheard of landslide. He was affable enough to be palatable to the vast majority of voters despite his policies.

Truth is, today's so-called 'fiscal conservatives' would say his tax rates were punishing success and 'social conservatives' would have a problem with his 'keep government out of our bedrooms' stance.

Ever since his presidency, the Republican party has been searching for someone who has that type of mass appeal and havent found it. Now, with the tea party and Palin-following factions pulling the party further rightward, chances of them finding such a person are slim. Heck now they are even re-evaluating Mitt Romney when they categorically rejected him last time. My guess is they are doing this as they in their heart of hearts know that a tea party/Palin-type candidate doesnt have a snowball's chance in hell of winning a national election.

Maybe they shouldn't have run Charlie Crist out of the party ;)
 
I am still going to ask you guys to research what taxes he raised as president, and tell me 1) which ones you disagree with and 2) Do the ones you disagree with outweigh the tax cuts he made?
 
Goddamn, facts really shatter Knoell's world.

The point isn't whether or not we disagree. It could be the best idea in the world, it could be the worst idea in the world. Your side worships Reagan, and the point is the mythology of Reagan's 'conservatism' wasn't even what you call 'conservatism'.

When you point out that the things Reagan actually did (e.g., Iran-Contra = negotiating with terrorists, he raised taxes twice in total, he gorged gov't spending and size), they have to engage in painful, agonizing attempts to create cognitive resonance.
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Right.

The point isn't whether we disagree with them or not. The point is that none of the people the right exalts and regards as above criticism are actually above criticism.

Even if criticism is such a dainty thing like "hey, they didn't really live by the policies you think they did."

See also: founding fathers, slavery, and Michele Bachmann. That is, if you believe John Quincy Adams is a founding father. If so, then I get to pick one, too: Rutherford Hayes.

EDIT: The simple version of this entire silly argument is this: people who play loose and fast with historical facts should be recognized for playing loose and fast with historical facts. When you make something up and get called on it, you're not allowed to cry about it. Reagan being a paragon of conservatism is one of those things, unless the Reagan you recognize is a wholly different entity than the person who occupied the White House from 1981-1989.
 
Just so everyone knows:

I don't recommend getting in a car wreck.

And don't worry - this post is about as on topic as four or five people in this thread tend to be.
 
Ah, so that explains where you've been, how bad was it? Only real wreck I've been in involved being flipped upside and losing a few minutes of my memory. Scary experience.
 
Well first of all, fuck Houston. Myke knows what I'm talking about in a general sense. No myke - no doublebootin' for me. Just fuck Houston.

Specifically, Houston drivers. Bitch t-boned on my side. Saw her at the last second - she had run a stop sign - and sped up/veered to the right just a bit so she hit on the driver's side just behind me. Back is killing me, and it's on Geico to fix that shit. Otherwise, no real injuries, don't know if car frame is fucked, witnesses confirmed to the police that it was all her fault (and wondered how I reacted in the time I had), etc etc.

Weekend was pretty great until Worldfuck2011 happened thirty hours ago.
 
I don't really know. Basically I know she didn't fucking stop at the stop sign, because there's no way she was going the speed she was from a stand still unless she floored the shit out of her little Honda.

One witness stopped and he goes over to her and started grilling her right there, which was kind of hilarious. "What were you doing? Just not paying attention? On your phone? Sending a text?" I was sitting there thinking this hombre was doing all the question-asking like an intergalactic pimp. Then he gave me his cell and said to call him if I needed another witness's testimony, but a soccer mom and her kid stuck around for the officer.

I mean it could have been worse by leagues, but it's still a pain in my goddamn lower back.
 
[quote name='IRHari']Goddamn, facts really shatter Knoell's world.

The point isn't whether or not we disagree. It could be the best idea in the world, it could be the worst idea in the world. Your side worships Reagan, and the point is the mythology of Reagan's 'conservatism' wasn't even what you call 'conservatism'.[/QUOTE]

I just want you all to use your facts legitimately. You guys claim he raised taxes 11 times, and only cut them 4 times. The way you leave that hanging just seems disingenuous.
 
One way I can see the exaltation of Reagan is because of the improvements in the economy vs what Carter was doing. Then again, I've never figured that a president is really responsible for that. Bill Gates had more to do with the american economy in the 80's than Reagan did... Then again that was the impetus for the unsustainable growth that really took stride during the early 90's and fell apart ca 2004 or so.

Knoell, how is it disingenuous? Ok, fact is that Reagan raised taxes a net 7 times while the distorted reality of Reagan Worship is that he either cut taxes completely or never raised them at all.
 
[quote name='nasum']One way I can see the exaltation of Reagan is because of the improvements in the economy vs what Carter was doing. Then again, I've never figured that a president is really responsible for that. Bill Gates had more to do with the american economy in the 80's than Reagan did... Then again that was the impetus for the unsustainable growth that really took stride during the early 90's and fell apart ca 2004 or so.

Knoell, how is it disingenuous? Ok, fact is that Reagan raised taxes a net 7 times while the distorted reality of Reagan Worship is that he either cut taxes completely or never raised them at all.[/QUOTE]

It is disingenuous because it is reminiscent of a campaign ad. X candidate voted to raise your taxes x times.

Noone wants to talk about what taxes he raised, or cut, just the net amount of times is all that matters to everyone. Sure 11 is greater than 4, but is that at all relevent if you look at the facts?
 
We don't care because that's not the point, we aren't trying to judge Reagen, we're judging those who worship him like a god. We're showing that all the reasons they claim for loving him are bullshit. He wasn't some sort of conservative god like they act.

I can admit that democrat X wasn't perfect, but Reaganites act like Reagan was infallible.
 
[quote name='Clak']We don't care because that's not the point, we aren't trying to judge Reagen, we're judging those who worship him like a god. We're showing that all the reasons they claim for loving him are bullshit. He wasn't some sort of conservative god like they act.

I can admit that democrat X wasn't perfect, but Reaganites act like Reagan was infallible.[/QUOTE]


And one of the reasons you give to prove they are wrong is that he raised taxes 11 times to his cutting taxes 4 times.

I am trying to explain to you that just because the talking heads keep using Reagan as an excuse to not raise taxes, doesn't mean everyone else does not have their own reasons for liking his policies.
 
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[quote name='Knoell']It is disingenuous because it is reminiscent of a campaign ad. X candidate voted to raise your taxes x times.[/QUOTE]

It isn't disingenuous, it's completely factual. He massively lowered taxes then he increased them several times. It isn't reminiscent of anything except history. You're not even making an argument, you're just whining that we're pointing out the things that Reagan actually did.

If you have some facts that can disprove anything myke or I said about Reagan go ahead and post 'em.
 
[quote name='IRHari']It isn't disingenuous, it's completely factual. He massively lowered taxes then he increased them several times. It isn't reminiscent of anything except history. You're not even making an argument, you're just whining that we're pointing out the things that Reagan actually did.

If you have some facts that can disprove anything myke or I said about Reagan go ahead and post 'em.[/QUOTE]


"We aren't being disingenuous"

"Prove that we said something untrue."

Those two statements do not go together, you can be disingenuous and still stick to the facts.

It is similiar to saying Obama spent 1 trillion dollars more than Bush, without including the fact that Obama spent it on something that Bush didn't get involved in. Health Care.

Try and agree with Obama's spending policies without going into the details of what he is spending it on. It would kind of make you look dumb, which is the exact situation you are putting people who agreed with Reagans policies in.

"Well if you think Reagan's policies were good then think again! 11-4 baby, 11-4!"

"What? I don't care what the taxes were, he raised them!"
 
[quote name='Knoell']And one of the reasons you give to prove they are wrong is that he raised taxes 11 times to his cutting taxes 4 times.

I am trying to explain to you that just because the talking heads keep using Reagan as an excuse to not raise taxes, doesn't mean everyone else does not have their own reasons for liking his policies.[/QUOTE]
It's not just the "talking heads", unless you're including most major conservative politicians. You can't get a single one of them to admit Reagen ever did anyhting wrong, and I've seen them put on the spot and dodge the question like it was a live grenade. I mean if you can't look at the man for who he was, then you don't really love the man, you love the myth of the man. you can love him for reason A, but if you can't admit he screwed up on reason B, you're delusional.

I think we've all complained about plenty of things Obama has or hasn't done, but not many conservatives are willing to look at Reagan with a critical eye.
 
[quote name='Clak'] I mean if you can't look at the man for who he was, then you don't really love the man, you love the myth of the man. you can love him for reason A, but if you can't admit he screwed up on reason B, you're delusional.

.[/QUOTE]

And who was he? someone who raised taxes 11 times to offset the 4 times he cut them right?

The evidence you give to invalidate peoples belief that Reagan had a very good tax policy cannot come into question?

Gotcha.
 
[quote name='Clak']It's not just the "talking heads", unless you're including most major conservative politicians. You can't get a single one of them to admit Reagen ever did anyhting wrong, and I've seen them put on the spot and dodge the question like it was a live grenade.[/QUOTE]

One reporter started asking right winger politicians/candidates "Who is your favorite political figure" would pause for half a second and add "besides Ronald Reagan" and then watch the hilarity ensue.
 
Republican controlled House failed to extend 3 expiring measures of the Patriot Act:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll026.xml

Why didn't it pass? Republicans tried to pass it with 2/3 so no amendments could be attached.

Should note that majority of Democrats voted to let the provisions expire, 26 Republicans joined them. 67 Democrats voted to extend the provisions.

Stay classy.
 
[quote name='Knoell']And who was he? someone who raised taxes 11 times to offset the 4 times he cut them right?

The evidence you give to invalidate peoples belief that Reagan had a very good tax policy cannot come into question?

Gotcha.[/QUOTE]
They don't ever even say "he had a very good tax policy" It's always that he believed in small government and not raising taxes, all of which is bullshit.
 
[quote name='Clak']They don't ever even say "he had a very good tax policy" It's always that he believed in small government and not raising taxes, all of which is bullshit.[/QUOTE]

Again why is not raising taxes bullshit? In total he cut MORE than he raised, but that statistic is just as meaningless as 11-4. Taxes vary from situation to situation, did you know one of the taxes that he raised was the gasoline tax from 4 cents to 9 cents? this is where I was trying to discuss what taxes he raised makes him anti conservative, because we all know conservatives believe we should have no taxes right?
 
[quote name='IRHari']Republican controlled House failed to extend 3 expiring measures of the Patriot Act:

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2011/roll026.xml

Why didn't it pass? Republicans tried to pass it with 2/3 so no amendments could be attached.

Should note that majority of Democrats voted to let the provisions expire, 26 Republicans joined them. 67 Democrats voted to extend the provisions.

Stay classy.[/QUOTE]

Called my representative to let him know he's an idiot for voting for this.
 
[quote name='Knoell']Again why is not raising taxes bullshit? In total he cut MORE than he raised, but that statistic is just as meaningless as 11-4. Taxes vary from situation to situation, did you know one of the taxes that he raised was the gasoline tax from 4 cents to 9 cents? this is where I was trying to discuss what taxes he raised makes him anti conservative, because we all know conservatives believe we should have no taxes right?[/QUOTE]
I'm not delving into specifics because no one who preaches the gospel of Reagan does. To most conservatives raising taxes = bad, they don't seem to care which ones were raiesd or for what purpose, therefore I don't care either in this case.

And the taxes part is just one area where we're calling out the Reagan myth. What about the rest of what's been mentioned?
 
[quote name='Clak']And the taxes part is just one area where we're calling out the Reagan myth. What about the rest of what's been mentioned?[/QUOTE]

Name a specific one, and I will discuss it. I don't mind criticizing Reagan for something so long as it isn't something as stupid as "11-4!!!!"

The part that just annoyed me was in the interview with limbaugh, stark repeatedly said "he's a tax raiser", and then in nasums article from thinkprogress they said he is a "seriel tax raiser". Technically yes, he can be considered a tax raiser, but it is being disingenuous if you plant that seed without explaining the situation.
 
Go back and find them man, taxes weren't the only things mentioned. And no, it isn't disingenuous when we're criticizing people for their blanket worship of Reagan. If a conservative says they love Reagan because he didn't raise taxes, that's flat out bullshit, I don't care about the particulars because neither does he.
 
[quote name='Clak']Go back and find them man, taxes weren't the only things mentioned. And no, it isn't disingenuous when we're criticizing people for their blanket worship of Reagan. If a conservative says they love Reagan because he didn't raise taxes, that's flat out bullshit, I don't care about the particulars because neither does he.[/QUOTE]

So you are simply criticizing random uninformed people and not Reagans tax policy? I can live with that, except you and me can admit that Obama, and Reagan have their flaws, but how many people still believe Obama is perfect? How about Clinton?
 
Yeah dude, that's what this has been about from the start, criticizing people for blanket worship of Reagan, at least that's been my criticism. I mean if I can admit that Obama, Clinton etc. were flawed, then so should conservatives be able to admit Reagan wasn't a conservative god. Yet it seems impossible to get a conservative (especially politicians) to admit Reagan wasn't perfect, and if they do it's always just some little unimportant thing to begin with.

Reagan has become some sort of gleaming symbol of conservatism, yet his actions aren't all that conservative by today's standards.
 
This is the worst argument of all time. Knoell knows Reagan raised taxes several times. He knows conservatives hate any tax raises but he wants us to defend the man. Me thinks he went to the wrong rhetoric school.
 
Well this thread got derailed. Their swamp already has a troll, but it's already being drained:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...ort-claiming-sent-shirtless-photo-craigslist/

Stay classy, and in this case, sexy and fit.

xlarge_chrislee_frontimage.jpg
 
This is becoming too ridiculous even for me. I expect politicians to act like the dregs they are, but this rampant stupidity is off the charts.
 
[quote name='IRHari']I think so, which is probably one reason why Gawker targeted him. I'm pretty sure he's in favor of DADT.[/QUOTE]
This is why people should be more careful when they go trumpeting causes like "family values", because if you aren't practicing what you're preaching it's only going to be a matter of time before your BS is revealed. It's why I think politicians should stay away from judging anyone's values or lifestyle, because more often than not they seem to end up as hypocrites.
 
[quote name='Clak']This is why people should be more careful when they go trumpeting causes like "family values", because if you aren't practicing what you're preaching it's only going to be a matter of time before your BS is revealed. It's why I think politicians should stay away from judging anyone's values or lifestyle, because more often than not they seem to end up as hypocrites.[/QUOTE]
But there was awhile there where it was a career ender. This doesn't hold a candle to Vitter getting caught using prostitutes and enjoying wearing diapers and he's still there. He was even caught calling prostitutes during House roll calls. I mean seriously wtf.

Just sayin.
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Obama to Mubarak: end the 30 year emergency law in Egypt

Obama to Democrats: extend the 10 year emergency law in America

Rand Paul:

Cue Republican leadership confusion in 3...2...1...[/QUOTE]
Obama continues to fuck up on stuff like this, but kudos to the people that blocked it, Dems and Repubs.
 
Oh I know, to me it proves that conservatives don't really care about what they preach, otherwise people like Vitter would be shunned by them all. They can forgive a member of their own party, but they tried to get Clinton's head on a stake for fooling around with an intern.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Makes no sense to me why he resigned, or why people care. I still don't understand how your private/social life affects your ability to perform your job.[/QUOTE]

You're doing this on purpose.

EDIT: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll645.xml

heh. stay classy, christopher lee.

EDIT: DADT Repeal Vote: http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll638.xml

See if you can guess what he votes? Think you can? Yeah, you can.
 
Is 6', 190 the standard boilerplate for all men over 30? That's not even the most foolish part. Meet a woman off of craigslist where she can save your emails/pics? Using an ugly picture too? For shame.
 
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