The Steam discussion topic! Joy and happiness, right here, folks.

Well after some reading and researching, went to the dev forums and came across a thread with a list of some complete mods broken down into sections. After checking them out, I figured for $5 I couldn't go wrong, I liked the whole nearly one shotting a looter while I ride full speed on my horse and swing a 2H axe at them hahah.

Here is the thread if anyone else is interested.
http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,44196.0.html
 
[quote name='KaOTiK']S.T.A.L.K.E.R.: Call of Pripyat is now on steam. If you have either of the first two Stalkers from steam you get a 33% discount.

Before discount $29.99
After discount $19.99[/QUOTE]
This is one of the coolest things ever. Why couldn't Valve do this with L4D2? Anyhow, in for M&B. I put it off on the D2D $5 sale with my only excuse being it was D2D. Now I don't have an excuse.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Mount & Blade is incredible. Been playing for ages.


Where do people get this idea that Steam is supposed to be this service that provides them with permanent, indefinite, free downloads of every retail game they've ever bought from any store (sales that Valve don't see any money from), that Steam just happen to sell as well? I can't go on iTunes and get free downloads of any CD I've ever bought from any store. That is an utterly inane expectation.

At any rate, it up to the publisher to allow this, not Valve. Valve can't go distributing copyrighted content to people, just because you have a CD-key. Publishers have to opt-in to that program.[/QUOTE]

hey, i said i was willing to pay to transfer some games. its just easier to run everything from steam. im a real stickler for owning physical copies, so basically only my valve games are through steam. but really, if they had a relicensing fee of some sort to transfer over games, id be all over it for some.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']THQ complete pack is now 50% off.[/QUOTE]

That's a fucking steal, if I didn't own most all the games I wanted from it I'd be all on it. Kinda makes me mad I bought the Dawn of War pack on the holiday sale for $45 I think?
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']hey, i said i was willing to pay to transfer some games. its just easier to run everything from steam. im a real stickler for owning physical copies, so basically only my valve games are through steam. but really, if they had a relicensing fee of some sort to transfer over games, id be all over it for some.[/QUOTE]


There is a fee, just rebuy the game on Steam.
 
THQ pack - Company of Heroes, Frontlines, Full Spectrum Warrior, Juiced 2, Red Faction 1, 2 and Guerrilla, Stalker, Saints Row 2, Titan Quest, Warhammer 40,000 Dawn of War I and II.

Not bad for 49.99
 
[quote name='Jesse_Dylan']No Overlord? Those are the only ones I own (they were cheap!) and really the only ones I'd probably have interest in.[/QUOTE]

Overlord is published by Codemasters, not THQ.
 
[quote name='Jesse_Dylan']Really?? Weird. I guess I must equate them in my mind. :)[/QUOTE]

Well, one way to help differentiate them might be to think of them geographically: THQ is in California, and Codemasters is British. :)
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']
Where do people get this idea that Steam is supposed to be this service that provides them with permanent, indefinite, free downloads of every retail game they've ever bought from any store (sales that Valve don't see any money from), that Steam just happen to sell as well? I can't go on iTunes and get free downloads of any CD I've ever bought from any store. That is an utterly inane expectation.[/QUOTE]

I don't think that it's inane. As we move from tangible goods to virtual ones (digital or otherwise), more people are going to ask the question, "what exactly are we paying for?" Are we paying for bytes that are stored on a hard drive, are we paying for a copy of the intellectual property which governs the item in question, and can do with it as we please, or is it something else? As goods and services evolve, I think that it's good and healthy to ask these sorts of questions.
 
[quote name='yeah-yeah']I don't think that it's inane. As we move from tangible goods to virtual ones (digital or otherwise), more people are going to ask the question, "what exactly are we paying for?" Are we paying for bytes that are stored on a hard drive, are we paying for a copy of the intellectual property which governs the item in question, and can do with it as we please, or is it something else? As goods and services evolve, I think that it's good and healthy to ask these sorts of questions.[/QUOTE]

Uh, what are you talking about, and how is it related related to what I said? I'm saying that the expectation that some people have for Steam to provide them with downloads of games they bought elsewhere is ridiculous, that's all.

These questions that you're putting forth are already answered, so it's not really as futuristic or esoteric or misunderstood or mysterious as you seem to think it is. We know quite well what digital goods are. When you buy digital goods (iTunes music, Steam games, etc), you're buying into a license contract. These licenses/contracts basically entitle you to download (sometimes infinitely, sometimes limited) specific copies of the content (the specific "bytes that are stored on a hard drive") from certain vendors or services. You're buying a license, that entitles you to some bytes. No one is selling free-reign access to the IP that entitles you to access it from any vendor you want. It doesn't work that way, and anyone who thinks that is kind of stupid.

It's not really that different from traditional retail. If you buy a CD at Wal-mart, that doesn't mean that you now have some sort of permanent, universal entitlement to that IP, that means that Best Buy would have to give you a copy of that CD for free, if you ask for it. The only real difference here is that instead of bytes on a compact disc, we're dealing with bytes coming across the internet. It's really not that difficult to understand.

are we paying for a copy of the intellectual property which governs the item in question, and can do with it as we please,
Click to expand...
There is no question about that, either. Pretty much any time you purchase a license, you're also entering into a user agreement that dictates what you can and can't do with it. You absolutely can not do anything you please, in most cases.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Uh, what are you talking about, and how is it related related to what I said? I'm saying that the expectation that some people have for Steam to provide them with downloads of games they bought elsewhere is ridiculous, that's all.[/QUOTE]

Truth. I usually feel entitled in a lot of cases but this is where I can see it's silly. The fact that Steam even allows a few games too be registered surprises me, for them to do all the games they offer would be insane(ly awesome) but unrealistic. They have no obligation and would gain in most cases nothing out of it.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Uh, what are you talking about, and how is it related related to what I said?[/quote]

I was referring to this statement:

I can't go on iTunes and get free downloads of any CD I've ever bought from any store. That is an utterly inane expectation.
Click to expand...

But now that I'm re-reading it, I realize that I misread it the first time. I agree completely, and your analogy is spot on. I read it too fast as I thought you were saying that people shouldn't expect to be able to redownload music that they've already purchased from iTunes. I never did well on the reading comprehension portions of standardized tests, so this wouldn't be the first time I've made an egregious reading error.


These questions that you're putting forth are already answered, so it's not really as futuristic or esoteric or misunderstood or mysterious as you seem to think it is. We know quite well what digital goods are. When you buy digital goods (iTunes music, Steam games, etc), you're buying into a license contract. These licenses/contracts basically entitle you to download (sometimes infinitely, sometimes limited) specific copies of the content (the specific "bytes that are stored on a hard drive") from certain vendors or services. You're buying a license, that entitles you to some bytes. No one is selling free-reign access to the IP that entitles you to access it from any vendor you want. It doesn't work that way, and anyone who thinks that is kind of stupid.
Click to expand...

I think that it's a disservice to the discussion of digital goods (and discourse, in general) to label someone who thinks differently than you as "kind of stupid". I understand how the process works now, but to say that things are the way they are means that things will always be this way and we, as consumers, just have to deal with it. I don't agree with this line of thinking.


It's not really that different from traditional retail. If you buy a CD at Wal-mart, that doesn't mean that you now have some sort of permanent, universal entitlement to that IP, that means that Best Buy would have to give you a copy of that CD for free, if you ask for it. The only real difference here is that instead of bytes on a compact disc, we're dealing with bytes coming across the internet. It's really not that difficult to understand.
Click to expand...

But it is different in what you can do with what you have purchased. You buy a CD, you can toss it in a shredder if you'd like. You can sell it. You can give it away. It's yours to do as you please. With digital distribution, you can get exactly the same content, just in a different delivery mechanism. So if you purchase a band's CD and I purchase their MP3s, we both own the same content, but what we can do with that content is different. My feeling is that as more and more content is delivered via digital mechanisms, this will become more of an issue to consumers. I'm curious as to what other folks think about this, hence the reason why I engaged in the discussion.

I hope this makes sense - it's a little late and I probably shouldn't be trying to think about anything other than brushing my teeth, but I wanted to reply while the thoughts were still (somewhat) fresh.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Uh, what are you talking about, and how is it related related to what I said? I'm saying that the expectation that some people have for Steam to provide them with downloads of games they bought elsewhere is ridiculous, that's all.

These questions that you're putting forth are already answered, so it's not really as futuristic or esoteric or misunderstood or mysterious as you seem to think it is. We know quite well what digital goods are. When you buy digital goods (iTunes music, Steam games, etc), you're buying into a license contract. These licenses/contracts basically entitle you to download (sometimes infinitely, sometimes limited) specific copies of the content (the specific "bytes that are stored on a hard drive") from certain vendors or services. You're buying a license, that entitles you to some bytes. No one is selling free-reign access to the IP that entitles you to access it from any vendor you want. It doesn't work that way, and anyone who thinks that is kind of stupid.

It's not really that different from traditional retail. If you buy a CD at Wal-mart, that doesn't mean that you now have some sort of permanent, universal entitlement to that IP, that means that Best Buy would have to give you a copy of that CD for free, if you ask for it. The only real difference here is that instead of bytes on a compact disc, we're dealing with bytes coming across the internet. It's really not that difficult to understand.


There is no question about that, either. Pretty much any time you purchase a license, you're also entering into a user agreement that dictates what you can and can't do with it. You absolutely can not do anything you please, in most cases.[/QUOTE]

I do not think these questions are answered at all. Different companies have different policies about what buying a digital copy of a game means. For some like MS its simply a freaking rental you can lose at any time. For others like Valve it seems to be more a long the lines of typical ownership.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I do not think these questions are answered at all. Different companies have different policies about what buying a digital copy of a game means. For some like MS its simply a freaking rental you can lose at any time. For others like Valve it seems to be more a long the lines of typical ownership.[/QUOTE]

This is going to degrade into one of those tired ownership vs rental, digital rights, why can't we sell our games discussion. Awesome.

Magus, quickly update the question and start a new discussion!
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']I do not think these questions are answered at all. Different companies have different policies about what buying a digital copy of a game means.[/quote]
Uh, not really the point, and that's simply not exactly what yeah-yeah and I were talking about. The point is that there is no question of what exactly digital goods are, and what it is we're paying for. What "questions" do you feel aren't answered?

For some like MS its simply a freaking rental you can lose at any time. For others like Valve it seems to be more a long the lines of typical ownership.
Click to expand...
I REALLY don't want this to become the usual "DRM/digital distribution/rental/ownership/can't sell my games/THEY'RE CAN DISABLE OUR GAMES WHENEVER THEY WANT!!" shit fight, but I would like to hear your explanation of how exactly they're so different. Seriously, how does Steam not fall into the same category of "rental" licensing (god I hate people using that term, but I'll use it here to stay consistent)? How is it so much like "typical ownership"? What, because you can download it any number of times? Read the license. It's has all the same clauses that scare people about other digital distribution outfits and DRM systems.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Uh, not really the point, and that's simply not exactly what yeah-yeah and I were talking about. The point is that there is no question of what exactly digital goods are, and what it is we're paying for. What "questions" do you feel aren't answered?


I REALLY don't want this to become the usual "DRM/digital distribution/rental/ownership/can't sell my games/THEY'RE CAN DISABLE OUR GAMES WHENEVER THEY WANT!!" shit fight, but I would like to hear your explanation of how exactly they're so different. Seriously, how does Steam not fall into the same category of "rental" licensing (god I hate people using that term, but I'll use it here to stay consistent)? How is it so much like "typical ownership"? What, because you can download it any number of times? Read the license. It's has all the same clauses that scare people about other digital distribution outfits and DRM systems.[/QUOTE]

Its mostly a mind state. MS has pretty much said they have the right to take games off XBLA and not support them at any point they want, and they have also said its not their problem if your system dies and you lose your games. Maybe in recent years they have been better, but I know I read numerous shit comments like those from them in years past.

Regardless though the bottom line is that currently while many of you laugh and scoff most of what we "buy" is indeed a long term digital rental. As things stand we have very very few "rights" when it comes to digital purchases. I dont think we should be allowed to sell our games and do everything we can with a hard copy, but I do want to know that I have some kind of rights over my purchase and that a company must at min continue to provide me access to what I have paid for indefinitely.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']Its mostly a mind state. MS has pretty much said they have the right to take games off XBLA and not support them at any point they want, and they have also said its not their problem if your system dies and you lose your games. Maybe in recent years they have been better, but I know I read numerous shit comments like those from them in years past.

Regardless though the bottom line is that currently while many of you laugh and scoff most of what we "buy" is indeed a long term digital rental. As things stand we have very very few "rights" when it comes to digital purchases. I dont think we should be allowed to sell our games and do everything we can with a hard copy, but I do want to know that I have some kind of rights over my purchase and that a company must at min continue to provide me access to what I have paid for indefinitely.[/QUOTE]

And that my friends is why long ago I decided to not purchase games period. I don't steal them either. I rather get them free and legal either through promotions or freeware status.

I've seen too many friends both on consoles and computer get burned from nonsense like this.
 
[quote name='Megazell']And that my friends is why long ago I decided to not purchase games period. I don't steal them either. I rather get them free and legal either through promotions or freeware status.

I've seen too many friends both on consoles and computer get burned from nonsense like this.[/QUOTE]

See but that just seems overkill. Its like people who spend insane amounts of money to eat the healthiest foods. Your taking something to a huge extreme.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']See but that just seems overkill. Its like people who spend insane amounts of money to eat the healthiest foods. Your taking something to a huge extreme.[/QUOTE]

Probably, but I rather not deal with the nonsense of DRM, Starforce and other unnecessary measures when it comes to gaming.

Gaming must be fun - 1st and foremost for me. It's also a want not a need. So if a company/publisher/developer is going to make me jump through hoops ON TOP of paying for their product, I rather not mess with it at all.

The only 'commecial' game I am looking forward to is 'Disciples 3.' The maker StrategyFirst treats their customers right - SO FAR. Now if they play any of that nonsense...I simply won't purchase their product. It's not my loss. It's theirs. I will still be gaming because on the PC at least theirs always another way.
 
[quote name='Megazell']Probably, but I rather not deal with the nonsense of DRM, Starforce and other unnecessary measures when it comes to gaming.

Gaming must be fun - 1st and foremost for me. It's also a want not a need. So if a company/publisher/developer is going to make me jump through hoops ON TOP of paying for their product, I rather not mess with it at all.

The only 'commecial' game I am looking forward to is 'Disciples 3.' The maker StrategyFirst treats their customers right - SO FAR. Now if they play any of that nonsense...I simply won't purchase their product. It's not my loss. It's theirs. I will still be gaming because on the PC at least theirs always another way.[/QUOTE]

See but it seems by going the free route your jumping through hoops with your games. I mean its a hell of a lot more work to sort through the millions of crap games to find the hand full of great ones then it is to just buy and play a game and accept the fact that at some point you may not be able to play it again.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']See but it seems by going the free route your jumping through hoops with your games. I mean its a hell of a lot more work to sort through the millions of crap games to find the hand full of great ones then it is to just buy and play a game and accept the fact that at some point you may not be able to play it again.[/QUOTE]

Nah, it's really pretty easy. I think your logic on your last point is reaching and not well though out.

There are over 300 sites that review freeware games in a very similar fashion to how I look for them.

In fact, I stop searching for anything on the web years ago. I have a program/web service (also free) that searches the web for me based on parameters that I put up.

www.searchbot.com

So it finds the games for me and then I check out the reviews for them online if any.

Recently out of the 65 games it found only 9 of them were 'unplayable' by my standards.

I'll take 13 minutes of search time over paying for a product any day. I know many that feel the same way. :)

You are also forgetting that once you purchase a game through digital means there is very few ways to make your money spent back. So if the game 'sucks' you are stuck.

Did it take time for me sort through the crap. Yes back in 1998 it was crap toss. These days...it's easy as pie.

Good luck, though :)
 
[quote name='Megazell']Nah, it's really pretty easy. I think your logic on your last point is reaching and not well though out.

There are over 300 sites that review freeware games in a very similar fashion to how I look for them.

In fact, I stop searching for anything on the web years ago. I have a program/web service (also free) that searches the web for me based on parameters that I put up.

www.searchbot.com

So it finds the games for me and then I check out the reviews for them online if any.

Recently out of the 65 games it found only 9 of them were 'unplayable' by my standards.

I'll take 13 minutes of search time over paying for a product any day. I know many that feel the same way. :)

You are also forgetting that once you purchase a game through digital means there is very few ways to make your money spent back. So if the game 'sucks' you are stuck.

Did it take time for me sort through the crap. Yes back in 1998 it was crap toss. These days...it's easy as pie.

Good luck, though :)[/QUOTE]

See but iv been to a lot of freeware sites that do have rating systems and it still feels like you have to sort to find good stuff. It feels to me like people at those sites have lowered expectations or just dont realize how bad the games are. Its been 2 or 3 years since I really did some looking, but each and every time in the past the freeware stuff has been tons of searching to find something good....then its over far too soon.

Also as far buying something on steam then never being able to play it again, yes its a possibilty and yes if it happens ill be annoyed....but like I said thats why I pay less for my games. If I bought a copy of Assassins Creed on steam for $30-$50 hell yes id be livid. However if I get it on a steam sale for $2.50-$5.00 then played it for 20 hours, then replayed it 4 or 5 times....I could easily justify the purchase even if at some point I lost the ability to play it. I dont think steam would work if the games were hugely pricy, people as your showing(and rightly so)dont trust digital distribution fully yet.
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']See but iv been to a lot of freeware sites that do have rating systems and it still feels like you have to sort to find good stuff. It feels to me like people at those sites have lowered expectations or just dont realize how bad the games are. Its been 2 or 3 years since I really did some looking, but each and every time in the past the freeware stuff has been tons of searching to find something good....then its over far too soon.

Also as far buying something on steam then never being able to play it again, yes its a possibilty and yes if it happens ill be annoyed....but like I said thats why I pay less for my games. If I bought a copy of Assassins Creed on steam for $30-$50 hell yes id be livid. However if I get it on a steam sale for $2.50-$5.00 then played it for 20 hours, then replayed it 4 or 5 times....I could easily justify the purchase even if at some point I lost the ability to play it. I dont think steam would work if the games were hugely pricy, people as your showing(and rightly so)dont trust digital distribution fully yet.[/QUOTE]

This will be my last response so that flow of your thread can move on. But you do see the flaw in your argument. Those that purchase commercial products have to do the same amount of work if not more than the freeware seeker.

You have to follow the articles, reviews, previews, demos (if any - demos are becoming a lost method of promotion) and beta testing to make sure you are getting a quality product to your liking. So your argument for work being put in is lost.

I would not expect...especially on this forum...for anyone to purchase something at released price. So that goes without saying.

I don't know which sites you hitting but I know there are a many of them that are BS - A good example is Gametop and others like it that I have on block for my Searchbot.

You're willing to put up with stuff that I just won't have the stomach for...especially if I'm paying.

Which goes back to my first post about this...it's merely what I would do and nothing more. I'll keep my cash and devote it to more fruitful endeavors. Games are free for me or fuck it! :)
 
[quote name='Megazell']This will be my last response so that flow of your thread can move on. But you do see the flaw in your argument. Those that purchase commercial products have to do the same amount of work if not more than the freeware seeker.

You have to follow the articles, reviews, previews, demos (if any - demos are becoming a lost method of promotion) and beta testing to make sure you are getting a quality product to your liking. So your argument for work being put in is lost.

I would not expect...especially on this forum...for anyone to purchase something at released price. So that goes without saying.

I don't know which sites you hitting but I know there are a many of them that are BS - A good example is Gametop and others like it that I have on block for my Searchbot.

You're willing to put up with stuff that I just won't have the stomach for...especially if I'm paying.

Which goes back to my first post about this...it's merely what I would do and nothing more. I'll keep my cash and devote it to more fruitful endeavors. Games are free for me or fuck it! :)[/QUOTE]

Well first off this isnt my topic its everyones ;)

Not really because first off most of us gamers follow reviews and other stuff anyways, freeware stuff means going out of your way for that stuff. Second and just as importantly though I can trust big name sites like gamerankings.com which average reviews meaning it takes all of a few seconds to see every great game released in the last few months.

Regardless though to each his own right ;)
 
[quote name='MSI Magus']MS has pretty much said they have the right to take games off XBLA and not support them at any point they want,[/quote]
More or less the same for Steam. You aren't guaranteed anything.

and they have also said its not their problem if your system dies and you lose your games.
Click to expand...
Heh, on that note, ever tried to deal with Valve support? It's not pretty, usually.

but I do want to know that I have some kind of rights over my purchase and that a company must at min continue to provide me access to what I have paid for indefinitely.
Click to expand...
You get the rights spelled out in the user/subscriber agreement and purchase details. You get access to the content, according to the terms of the subscription contract. What, do you think there should be, like, a federal law that states that all digital content delivery services should be forced to provide indefinite downloads? Infinite downloads are either a feature of a particular service/company, or it isn't.

It's not about "rights," like, as if we were talking about civil rights or something here. It's about the terms of private purchase agreements/contracts.

Again, not that different from a CD. You don't get a guarantee of permanent access to the contents of a CD or DVD, either.

[quote name='Megazell']The maker StrategyFirst treats their customers right - SO FAR.[/QUOTE]
Hah, is that so? That's fine, if that's been true in your experience, but you should hear how they treat the developers they publish for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_First#Conflicts
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']
Hah, is that so? That's fine, if that's been true in your experience, but you should hear how they treat the developers they publish for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_First#Conflicts[/QUOTE]

Yep. I knew about those incidents. Like I stated before these days most game makers can publisher their own works if they wanted to through some online format of their desire. There is no true need for publishers anymore (IMO there never was).

As a customer they treated me right and few others that I know that purchased their products.

EDIT - On another note...If Disciples 3 is not a full game with the default races from part 1 and 2...I heard they trying to charge for the Dwarves and Undead...then that too would be a dead issue for me.
 
Just a question... starting to get into this steam game buying thing....

Do the collection packs normally go on sale?

I already got the THQ one which I was about to pay 99 for. Has the Valve, ID, or Rockstar packs ever gone on sale from their current 99 price?

99 still seems liek a good price for the Valve one just considering the breadth of games it covers. Am I mistaken?
 
The Super ID pack was like $23 bucks during the Winter sale. I think the Rockstar Pack was $50 during that sale as well.
 
[quote name='Megazell']Yep. I knew about those incidents. Like I stated before these days most game makers can publisher their own works if they wanted to through some online format of their desire. There is no true need for publishers anymore (IMO there never was).[/quote]

Uh, you know that publishers usually do more than just put games in boxes and get them on store shelves, right? They are often responsible for fronting the bulk of the development budget, in most cases.

Online self-publishing can work for little games like World of Goo these days, but without the traditional publisher/developer dynamic that the industry is built on, we wouldn't have ever seen the sorts of games that you have for the past 20 years.

The "IMO there never was" comment is seriously bewildering. Without publishers, and that sort of funding structure, we would never have seen the sort of big-budget/high-production-value games we have nowadays (and yeah, yeah, some people will argue about whether or not that is a good thing, but seriously, the world wasn't going to stop at Pong, and no, we weren't all going to play freeware forever, either).
 
[quote name='Steggy']Just a question... starting to get into this steam game buying thing....

Do the collection packs normally go on sale?

I already got the THQ one which I was about to pay 99 for. Has the Valve, ID, or Rockstar packs ever gone on sale from their current 99 price?

99 still seems liek a good price for the Valve one just considering the breadth of games it covers. Am I mistaken?[/QUOTE]

Packs go on sale from time to time. The Valve pack has never from my knowledge had too big of a price cut for a sale.

I've read from a few different spots but never investigated to see if it was true, but apparently people that did buy the Valve pack got Left For Dead 2 automatically added to their game list when the game came out. Like I said I saw that said in a few different spots but don't know if it is true or not (didn't matter to me cause I already owned nearly all the Valve games as they came out).

Pack sales in general seem to be rather random except at the obvious holiday sales time.
 
[quote name='CoffeeEdge']Uh, you know that publishers usually do more than just put games in boxes and get them on store shelves, right? They are often responsible for fronting the bulk of the development budget, in most cases.

Online self-publishing can work for little games like World of Goo these days, but without the traditional publisher/developer dynamic that the industry is built on, we wouldn't have ever seen the sorts of games that you have for the past 20 years.

The "IMO there never was" comment is seriously bewildering. Without publishers, and that sort of funding structure, we would never have seen the sort of big-budget/high-production-value games we have nowadays (and yeah, yeah, some people will argue about whether or not that is a good thing, but seriously, the world wasn't going to stop at Pong, and no, we weren't all going to play freeware forever, either).[/QUOTE]

I hear you. And yes I do know the formal structure of how commercial games get made. That does not mean that it should stay this way. With all the successful games we have seen/played there were bucket loads of games and game companies that did not make it - Some of it was because the games were just awful and other reasons could have been mismanagement. When gaming went mainstream - a lot of good things came out of it but so did a lot of bad (like all things in life). Some of the worst things to happen are game makers that had strong niches but attempted to expand based on boardroom decisions that ultimately failed and broke the companies.

Just as how other forms of media have different venues and avenues for funds to be acquire so should gaming. To me, it's quite tragic that it has taken this long as it is for video gaming to get into 'formal' digital distribution when the technology and appetite (not to mention it's how PC gaming was founded in the first place) was there 15+ years ago.

Some of these publisher are as bad as the record companies that hold on to old practices and policy that have no business being industry standard.
 
[quote name='KaOTiK']Packs go on sale from time to time. The Valve pack has never from my knowledge had too big of a price cut for a sale.

I've read from a few different spots but never investigated to see if it was true, but apparently people that did buy the Valve pack got Left For Dead 2 automatically added to their game list when the game came out. Like I said I saw that said in a few different spots but don't know if it is true or not (didn't matter to me cause I already owned nearly all the Valve games as they came out).

Pack sales in general seem to be rather random except at the obvious holiday sales time.[/QUOTE]

Thanks man, this post really helps me out. Wasnt sure if I wait for the valve pack to go on sale or not. At this point it seems pretty pointless to wait. Thanks!
 
[quote name='Steggy']Thanks man, this post really helps me out. Wasnt sure if I wait for the valve pack to go on sale or not. At this point it seems pretty pointless to wait. Thanks![/QUOTE]

NP, you'll have lots of gaming goodness to enjoy at a steal at a price even at $100
 
I think I've seen the Valve pack on sale for maybe like 10-25% off at some random points. It's never been too much and I think the most I ever saw was the 2008 holiday sale.

As for the digital rights conversation, reality is there are still many differences between the digital world and physical world, even if the licenses are technically the same thing. I think a healthy discussion of the differences, wishes, expectations, etc. is fine and is one that could be had for a long long time.
 
Warning Forever

[quote name='Megazell']
Megazell's Top Pick
Warning Forever
Megazell's Top Pick

Action
Single Player - Yes
Multiplayer - No

Warning Forever has you pick apart a boss, piece by piece. But every time you break him down, it returns with more parts to kill you with. As the game progresses the boss continues to grow until it practically takes up the whole screen.

Warning Forever is a freeware 2D fixed shooter for the Windows platform written by Hikoza T Ohkubo and released under the name of his software house, Hikware.

System Requirements

OS: Windows 95 or higher
CPU: 300 Mhz
Video: 16 Mb
Memory: 16 Mb
Hard Drive: 960 Kb

Download it here - http://www.fileradar.net/files/view/Warning-Forever_Warning-Forever---Full-Free-Game/3924
or
Download it here - http://www.megaupload.com/?d=DJDKKA5D

Screenshot



Gameplay Video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpDan-BpqJM
Click Here!

For The Full List Of 'Free And Legal PC Games.'
[/QUOTE]

​
 
Question of the Week - Well last weeks QotW was a bust, dont think a single person responded to it. So hopefully this one is more popular! We all know steam has a lot of big games but this week lets focus on the little ones. Which games are your fav 5 min time wasters(or games you intend to lose 5 mins to but then lose hours)?
Click to expand...

I play Puzzle Quest like this. Just fire it up and play a few quick battles then exit out and do something else. It works well as a nice little break from all the college reading that I am doing.
 
ooooo preorder Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II Chaos Rising and get Saint's Row 2 free, if you already own you can gift it.

Was buying this day one as it was, so cha ching!
 
[quote name='Megazell']
Just as how other forms of media have different venues and avenues for funds to be acquire so should gaming. To me, it's quite tragic that it has taken this long as it is for video gaming to get into 'formal' digital distribution when the technology and appetite (not to mention it's how PC gaming was founded in the first place) was there 15+ years ago.
[/QUOTE]
The tech might have been available, but the infrastructure wasn't readily available. High Speed internet has only been affordable for the masses for a short time. And I (and others) use digital distribution, but only in specific cases. I just don't trust these companies to do the right thing.
Some of these publisher are as bad as the record companies that hold on to old practices and policy that have no business being industry standard.
Click to expand...

A perfect example of dinosaur thinking. Also, another example of a business I wouldn't trust with digital distribution (or anything else for that matter).
 
[quote name='KaOTiK']ooooo preorder Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War II Chaos Rising and get Saint's Row 2 free, if you already own you can gift it.

Was buying this day one as it was, so cha ching![/QUOTE]

Nice! Companies need to do more stuff like that on Steam.
 
I heard Saints Row 2 had lots of problems on the PC, does that hold true for the steam version? Free is free, but just wondering.

My time wasters on steam are probably the demo Peggle Extreme, Zombie Bowling, and Nation Red and Killing Floor.

I will say Nation Red and Killing Floor are games much deeper than your average time killing game, but I like them in the sense I can pick them up for a quick round and feel like I had a fun time and a break.
 
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