*The Wrestlemania 23 & Wrestlemania III 20th Anniversary Wrestling Topic*

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God... Damn... It.

Cena winning just pisses me off to no end.

I missed the first hour of the PPV. Sounds like Money In The Bank was great. Glad Kennedy won. I enjoyed Taker vs Batistia. The right man won that. Rest of the PPV was okayish. I still fucking hate the fact that Cena won. fucking hate it.
 
[quote name='Bathory']So when will cena lose the damn belt!?...[/quote]

When Vince dies and Stephanie puts the belt on Daniel Rodimer :roll:


Random thought: That Kennedy flip off the ladder into a Kenton bomb with Little Bastard hooked on Kennedy's shoulders was absolutely sick. I also have a few video clips from the MITB match. I got most of Kane's intro on video, and 15 seconds or so of Taker's intro, which was CRAZY long. Floor/Riser seats aren't all they're cracked up to be though unless you're in the frong, hard to see stuff that happens on the actual mat outside the ring, my video clips reflect that. I do have a GREAT vid clip of CM Punk getting blasted in the face with a ladder though :D

I really want to see this Mania on DVD now.
 
I had a major power outage last night and was only able to watch 30 minutes of Wrestlemania. I feel jipped and ripped off of $50 because I couldn't watch it (and the encore too!), yet I still had to pay for it.

DTE energy can kiss my rump.
 
It's short-sighted to bitch about Cena retaining, as they may use the thunder to make him a heel...

... then again, the WWE is devoid of all things logic.

And thank Christ that Kennedy won.
 
The Dord,

Call your cable company and explain the situation. Usually, if you barely watch a PPV event, they can give you a refund. I have WOW (I'm guessing your in Michigan with DTE Energy being your provider), so just call them up. At the very least, they might give it to you during the week, which will be better than nothing.

I haven't read everything, but I was there.

I agree, everyone seemed against Batista during the match. I thought Cena got some pops though. Every kid walking in the place seemed to have Cena shirts on and cheered him. Looking around the place, it really seemed that people were rooting for Cena. Chants seemed 50-50 to me, but everyone around me seemed to be rooting for HBK and against Cena, but the rest of the place seemed to explode for Cena. So, hard to say.

The place was filing out during the Benoit/MVP match. The place popped for Benoit, then everyone ran to the bathroom. I swear, if they showed the crowd during it, it looked like the 4th quarter of a Lions game, when everyone was leaving to beat the traffic.

Edit: Question, did it look on tv that Edge was hurt during the MITB match? I was expecting him to win, they stretchered him out, I expected him to come running back out and win the match, but he didn't.
 
That's the thing with Cena. Sure, *WE* don't like him at all, but he moves merchandise like a mofo, and we all fail to realize we're members of the same adult male fan demographic. Us saying "Cena sucks" is as expected as those adult females in the crowd who don't care for Divas (well, somewhat).

I think there's a way to solidify Cena at the top without forcing him down fans' throats. The more we see him put into character roles we know he isn't (a mobster at WM22, celebrating "motor city" last night, playing a "marine") the harder it will be to get people to take him seriously in the long run. The way Cena's character comes off, he doesn't make himself look good, or show that he's earned his stripes. Instead (and this is Cena's biggest problem, IMO) is that the way his character is presented, he comes off more as the guy *begging* for everyone to cheer for him, rather than being the guy who just does what he does and people cheer because he's awesome (Hogan, Austin, Rock).

Cena's been on top of the WWE title scence since Wrestlemania 21, and still, IMO, he has zero credibility and zero believability. It's a severe problem with his character, and one that needs to be remedied sooner than later. He is a paper thin goody two shoes kissass. What's so strange is that he comes across as genuinely funny, witty, and likable when he does interviews off of WWE tv - it makes me wonder if Cena is the problem, or the corporate machinations of the way WWE does TV these days.
 
I won't lie, I'm a Cena mark, but heel "without the belt" Cena was a hell of a lot more interesting that goody two shoes Cena.

Remember when he was feuding with ECW when they first showed up? He was awesome then, he was a no nonsense ass kicker.

Remember when he took it to ECW's house and whooped all their asses? Yea, Cena was a badass then.

Remember when Edge took his belt? Same thing. No more games, he beat the shit out of him and threw him in the water.

When Cena is serious, an ass kicker, and delivers some intense promo's, that's what I like.

Myke, you pegged the problem I have with him now... they keep portraying him as this goody two shoes. I haven't watched WWE in forever, but is HBK a heel now or something? It would have made sense for them to turn Cena heel against HBK.

So yea, while I'm a Cena mark, they are destroying his character by refusing to turn him heel and giving the fans what they want. Also, I'm absolutely sick of him holding the fucking belt. He needs to drop the belt and feud with someone else.. I remember when WWE had feuds that weren't just about the belt. Hell, have Cena lose the belt *because of someone else* and there you go, Cena gets all serious kick ass against someone and there is no gold involved.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']That's the thing with Cena. Sure, *WE* don't like him at all, but he moves merchandise like a mofo, and we all fail to realize we're members of the same adult male fan demographic. Us saying "Cena sucks" is as expected as those adult females in the crowd who don't care for Divas (well, somewhat).

I think there's a way to solidify Cena at the top without forcing him down fans' throats. The more we see him put into character roles we know he isn't (a mobster at WM22, celebrating "motor city" last night, playing a "marine") the harder it will be to get people to take him seriously in the long run. The way Cena's character comes off, he doesn't make himself look good, or show that he's earned his stripes. Instead (and this is Cena's biggest problem, IMO) is that the way his character is presented, he comes off more as the guy *begging* for everyone to cheer for him, rather than being the guy who just does what he does and people cheer because he's awesome (Hogan, Austin, Rock).

Cena's been on top of the WWE title scence since Wrestlemania 21, and still, IMO, he has zero credibility and zero believability. It's a severe problem with his character, and one that needs to be remedied sooner than later. He is a paper thin goody two shoes kissass. What's so strange is that he comes across as genuinely funny, witty, and likable when he does interviews off of WWE tv - it makes me wonder if Cena is the problem, or the corporate machinations of the way WWE does TV these days.[/QUOTE]I think that Cena is like the "Poochy" of WWE (as in "Itchy, Scratchy, & Poochy"). His character is an entirely manufactured hero that the hardcore fanbase sees right through. "Begging" for cheers, like you said... recycling TO THE EXTREME!!!!!!

The booking still seems illogical to me. I feel like the kids who buy his merchandise, would still buy his merchandise whether he was the champ or not. I mean he can still be one of their top guys, and remain in a very visible role, even if he's not the champion (or even chasing the championship) for a while. As long as they didn't like totally bury him, or give him way less TV time, I'm sure the merchandise would continue to fly.
 
i WAS a fan of heel cena! fuck this marine cena now.. it has gotten to the point that i want him nowhere near the title...

and again i feel like punching creative or mcmahon for placing that match last.. knowing that no one would cheer cena and leave pissed
 
Watched it last night. First time seeing mania live. It seemed like some of the matches ended like early, I was expecting them to go longer (MITB, Kane match, etc). It was a good show overall, I liked it. Can't believe old ass Undertaker has the belt, that guy needs to get of wrestling he is so played out.
 
[quote name='guyver2077']i WAS a fan of heel cena! fuck this marine cena now.. it has gotten to the point that i want him nowhere near the title...

and again i feel like punching creative or mcmahon for placing that match last.. knowing that no one would cheer cena and leave pissed[/QUOTE]Wigger heel Cena was awesome. I frigging did the "Word Life" hand sign when I picked up my diploma during college graduation, lol. He's not even a rapper anymore, it's this vague "street soldier" gimmick that he's been doing for a while now.
 
Wow, blackout, you were there live, and you didn't feel the intensity of the crowd in the Taker match? He doesn't need to be out at all there.

Myk, your on to something (I think we had this conversation in a previous thead). But, I'm thinking about it long term here. Maybe I'm wrong here (I admit I'm not sure I believe this fully), but I think this could be what Vince and company is thinking

If you don't catch wrestling fans early, you won't have them. I talk to my friends. If you're 20 something and watching wrestling, you were watching it when you were 10 and below. I don't have a friend that started watching as a teenager, it was younger than that. Now, do some people get in later, I'm sure. But, I think the bulk is young.

You have so many of these "ass kicker" characters that don't really care about the crowd, just do what they do. Kennedy is that right now. Booker was pretty much that before becoming King. Finley is this character now. Austin was that character, so was the Rock. This isn't the full list.

Cena is really the only guy right now playing the "good guy" role. Sure, it's forced, no one is that good in real life, the character is bound to have some issues. But, Cena pulls it off to SOME extent. I'm convinced Cena has nothing to do with the core audience right now, Cena is to build the future audience (Vince owns the business right now, Cena is to bring in the future audience in 10-15 years, the same audience that wold still boo him).

I look at Hogan. If you played Hogan's 1980's character right now, it would bomb. Yet, if he shows up at an event, he tears off his shirt, does a few poses, and tons of us turn into Hogan marks.

Honestly, if you are 7-8 years old (or younger) who will you identify with (hard to put yourself there without having one in your life). You want the super hero guy that follows the rules (reasonably) and can prevail. This is what Cena is. Is it believable, not really. Do those that root for Cena really care, I don't think so.

Now, is there a way to have a best of all worlds, I think so. But, it would take some work.

I have a sketch in my mind that could save him. I think you need a heel with heat. I think Khali is perfect for this. But, he needs to have some alliances with some other guys (sort of like an old Ministry of Darkness that taker had). Let this group led by Khali (or your choice of person). Absolutely cost Cena everything. Have them cost Cena the title, have Cena's professional life fall apart because of this group. Then, have Cena "snap" and start rushing the ring destroying every match on Raw, literally grinding the show to a halt (this happened often during the attitude era), and have him systematically destroy this group until he comes up to the top. I think taking some hard hits on tv can win him fans of the older crowd, while keeping his character for the younger generation.
 
[quote name='BustaUppa']I think that Cena is like the "Poochy" of WWE (as in "Itchy, Scratchy, & Poochy"). His character is an entirely manufactured hero that the hardcore fanbase sees right through. "Begging" for cheers, like you said... recycling TO THE EXTREME!!!!!![/QUOTE]

Apparently I don't watch the Simpsons much. I've never heard of "Poochy." To suggest Cena is an "entirely manufactured hero" is absolutely on the money. Sending him out in a Mustang (I think) comes across as a new take on "cheap pops." There's nothing to it that's related to Cena's character, it's 100% superficial, and because it's so clearly superficial, it makes Cena look desperate for people's appreciation. It's like that kid who wanted to hang out with the weirdos in high school, so they started painting their nails black and listening to The Smiths (or some shit like that); you kinda feel bad for 'em because they're trying so hard to simply be accepted, but you also think they're pathetic for behaving in a way just for the sake of having people like them.

Foley's accused of doing the cheap pop thing (It's great to be here....in Detroit, Michigan!), and rightly so. However, Foley earned his stripes and then some beforehand - and his cheap pops have become a sort of comedy staple - like Ron Simmons' "Damn!" Foley would still be Foley if he never grabbed a single cheap pop (perhaps his legacy would be stronger if he would have stayed off of TV?).

The ironic thing about Cena? Only 600,000 of the nearly 4 million Fords built in 2003 were manufactured in Michigan, which has been a downward trend of the past few years. Driving in a Ford should have led to him being booed out of the building!

EDIT: I fuckin' got it! Wrestlemania 24's in Orlando, right? Someone, quick, photoshop Cena coming to the ring on Shamu!

shamu.jpg

This should help you get started.
 
xixor, sort of stealing off of your idea, I wonder if the best angle for Cena (though a cheap way to get the belt off of him) is to have Khali "break his back." Cena will be laid up in traction, and not be able to defend the title. He tearfully (and still in a body cast) gives it up in a promo (this may or may not work, since Batista did the same thing within the past couplea years).

So, have a tournament to determine the new champ, and have it be a major heel (perhaps the one who paid off Khali to injure Cena). Cena can come back in a couple of months - use an old style of "training montage" videos to show Cena's dedication to coming back (think Bret/HBK from WMXII), and have him come back strong and win the belt from whomever won the title in the tournament. This story arc could take place over damn near six months - I've not sold myself on it completely, but what Cena needs is a storyline that shows the fans - even us cynical adult males - that he loves wrestling and he's totally dedicated to it.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']I feel I got what I paid for, the MITB was great, hopefully I saw the end of Edge's career.[/quote]

What happened to Edge?
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Maybe a spinal injury? It's hard to tell if that was a legit injury or not.[/QUOTE]
Probably blew out a disk, if it was legit.
 
So, the best part about WrestleMania has yet to happen: the post-WM firings!

What's everyone's expected roll call for the soon-to-be released?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So, the best part about WrestleMania has yet to happen: the post-WM firings!

What's everyone's expected roll call for the soon-to-be released?[/QUOTE]
Masters
Super Crazy
The Highlanders
 
[quote name='mykevermin']While I don't disagree with you, I think you'll see 4 or so guys fired within 3 weeks of WM.

Joey Matthews = not on WM
Others = on WM

No different than Test's sudden, "shocking" firing a mere 10 days after moving out of the main event scene. No different than RVD losing both belts on air before being suspended. WWE doesn't want to jeopardize WrestleMania by losing a number of main event guys.

I'm willing to bet Randy Orton will be suspended after WM, while Edge looks like he's been "off cycle" long enough that he'll pass any piss test.[/quote]

If Edge has ever used gear, it would surprise the hell out of me. He's always seemed like a skinny guy to me, who lacks muscle definition.
 
Edge always acts juiced... Whether that be his chemistry or his character, I do not know.
 
[quote name='SIUfan']If Edge has ever used gear, it would surprise the hell out of me. He's always seemed like a skinny guy to me, who lacks muscle definition.[/quote]

He just has a weird looking body.
 
the Rock a few years back when fans hated him as a face but cheered him as a heel in the Rock's early days. When he is gone for a few months, he appears and is cheered. Same thing may happen to Cena. Funny thing tho that Stone cold is always cheered as he is the anti heel or anti face, he is just stone cold. HHH is similar, makes a better heel but to move the storylines, he changes every season or so. I like seeing major heel turns such as Hogan when he did it in WCW till it got old then back to face towards the end of his careere. It didnt work for Andre but just for the story is had to be done. I do like the Mick Foley storys back in the day, he is my fav.
 
[quote name='tangytangerine']I say Masters will go, they broke the Masterlock Challenge, now there's really no use for him.

As for WM, the results were easy to predict.[/quote]

Or really? You honestly thought the ECW Originals would win! I don't believe it!!! :D

Anyway, WWE can't really turn Cena heel. Why, do you ask? Well, while that would be exactly what "we" want, I don't think as many of those kids in the audience would be wearing Cena stuff if he was a heel. You turn Cena heel, you completely alter his fanbase and he doesn't move merchandise like he does now. Plus by turning Cena heel, you end up getting the older wrestling crowd (us) to cheer for him!

I think Mr. Kennedy may become the first person to NOT win the title after winning the MITB, just can't see him beating John Cena.
 
I was a Cena mark, to be honest, but now....I just don't know anymore. I was a bigger fan of his "rapping" days (still have "Basic Thuganomics" and "My Time is Now" on my playlist, mainly for the cheesyness and hilarity), but now.....what is he trying to be again?

Cena retaining the title wasn't that big of a surprise to me, because if HBK had won, then we'd more than likely see a HHH v HBK match soon, and we don't need ANOTHER HHH/HBK rivalry so soon after D-X was formed....AGAIN.

Then again, if HBK had won it, Cena would just win it back again. Nothing against HBK, but it's just what would happen.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']Or really? You honestly thought the ECW Originals would win! I don't believe it!!! :D [/quote]

Yeah, I had a feeling the the NB would screw up and after WM feud with each other.

I figured Cena would win, so that they would have a rematch at Backlash with either HBK or Cena going heel between now and then.
 
[quote name='Zenithian Legend']
I think Mr. Kennedy may become the first person to NOT win the title after winning the MITB, just can't see him beating John Cena.[/QUOTE]

I thought with MITB they could go for any title they wanted?

Couldn't Kennedy challenge Undertaker for the belt? I could see UT dropping the belt to Mr Kennedy.
 
[quote name='tangytangerine']Yeah, I had a feeling the the NB would screw up and after WM feud with each other.

I figured Cena would win, so that they would have a rematch at Backlash with either HBK or Cena going heel between now and then.[/QUOTE]

I have to agree with you. If the new breed won, then the originals putting them over at ONS would seem meaningless.
 
Well given a little time to reflect, I think I've come to a conclusion as to what irked me the most about WM. I'm trying to upload a video to youtube, which is taking forever today... to show kinda where I was sitting.

1. From my seat I didn't have the best view of the entire ring area, mainly outside the ring, so that was quite frustrating. I'm used to having great seats to WWE events, as I used to get comp tickets, often as close as the 3rd row from the ring.

2. Lack of matches. I think of all the WWE events I've been to (including house shows) this one had the fewest matches! No tag team titles match for only the 3rd time ever! Well 2nd, if you count the dark match to WM12. WM21 had no tag title match either. I really expected a tag titles battle royal, maybe a dark match, but something to parade Deuce & Domino, Cryme Time, Highlanders, Cade & Murdoch and so on out there with Londrick.

3. Cena
 
[quote name='CaseyRyback']I have to agree with you. If the new breed won, then the originals putting them over at ONS would seem meaningless.[/quote]

Ah, makes sense. ONS is in Jacksonville this year because Vince is afraid of what the crowd might do at an ECW venue.
 
[quote name='Roufuss']I thought with MITB they could go for any title they wanted?

Couldn't Kennedy challenge Undertaker for the belt? I could see UT dropping the belt to Mr Kennedy.[/QUOTE]


i heard taker was to lose the belt this friday at smackdown. you knew taker would win cause they smackdown is here in fort wayne tomorrow night and they was pushing it on the radio

TAKER VS ANIMAL For the title in the WM Title rematch

so already knew taker was going to win
 
I don't know how it came across on TV, but when they introduced Viscera Aretha, they played the audio of Vince introducing her from WM3...which was kind of strange since it included "welcome to Wrestlemania 3!"

For what it's worth, if you saw "FEEL THE WELLNESS" or "LASSIE IS THE ONLY GREAT COLLIE," that was me. "GRANHOLM IS UGLY" was also me and was popular with everyone who saw it, but unless you're familiar with Michigan's government that one isn't going to do much for you. I doubt I was shown at since we were in the upper level suite, but we did hang them over the side.
 
I don't know how it came across on TV, but when they introduced Viscera Aretha, they played the audio of Vince introducing her from WM3...which was kind of strange since it included "welcome to Wrestlemania 3!"

For what it's worth, if you saw "FEEL THE WELLNESS" or "LASSIE IS THE ONLY GREAT COLLIE," that was me. "GRANHOLM IS UGLY" was also me and was popular with everyone who saw it, but unless you're familiar with Michigan's government that one isn't going to do much for you. I doubt I was shown at since we were in the upper level suite, but we did hang them over the side.
 
[quote name='slidecage']i heard taker was to lose the belt this friday at smackdown. you knew taker would win cause they smackdown is here in fort wayne tomorrow night and they was pushing it on the radio

TAKER VS ANIMAL For the title in the WM Title rematch

so already knew taker was going to win[/QUOTE]That is most likely just an un-televised match for the live crowd to enjoy. But, you never know.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']he looks like lex luther[/quote]

More like Christopher Reeves to me. I don't mean that in a way of making fun of either individual. I just think they look very similar with no hair. I think the look will grow on people though. I can't even picture Angle or Austin with hair anymore.
 
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