The Yes We CAG Movement - Now to win the Presidency!

[quote name='Ruined']Watch both of these:

"God Damn America"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk3LXvVlsI4

"Hillary ain't never been called a n*****"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPjVp3PLnVs&feature=related

They speak for themselves, full of hate, anti-american sentiment, and racism. About the only racist thing left he could have said worse is "KILL WHITEY," and his comments are not a far stretch from that.[/quote]

1. I don't really see anything offensive in those videos.
2. Obama condemned the remarks when he first heard them, what more do you want?
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']1. I don't really see anything offensive in those videos.[/quote]

Then I'm afraid you may agree with or at least be sympathetic to racist people as well. Repeating Obama's damage control PR verbatim is making you look just as badly as he does right now.

2. Obama condemned the remarks when he first heard them, what more do you want?
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Well, based on Obama's obviously close relationship with this man it now appears Obama's whole image was a sham. Obama can do what he wants, but there is no way in hell I am voting for him now. I'm sure many now share this same sentiment after watching those hateful videos.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']In this alternative world, did Africans ship Europeans in bulk to the New World, go to war against themselves to keep Europeans slaves, pass hundreds of local, state and federal laws to keep Europeans as second class citizens well into the 20th century and, in ever shrinking areas of the country, still aggressively overprosecute and overpenalize Europeans for relatively the same behavior as Africans?[/QUOTE]

Two wrongs don't make a right. And, you can't justify racism as being "okay" because of actions of people in the 1800s. There may have been white people back then who were very racist, and even people more recently in groups like the KKK that may have been racist. But the vast majority of whites today are NOT racist and obviously condemn the actions of those groups. We don't live in the "USKKKA" as Obama's mentor remarks, that is pure fucking bull and an offensive generalization to me and many others. It is the ridiculous equivalent of someone saying that today all Germans are out to kill Jewish people, justifying their remarks by the actions of the Nazis. In short, its racist BS.

In summary, Obama and his pastor don't have the right to shit on me and others like me because of the actions of people two centuries ago. This sort of action by the pastor prolongs racism, making the divide even deeper by angering both Caucasians and African Americans alike, and is obviously counterproductive to the direction our society is moving in.
 
Okay, Ruined. Let's play your game. If Barack is guilty by association for taking spiritual guidance from a "racist pastor," then Hillary is just as guilty. Why? Because HER spiritual adviser, the Rev. Billy Graham, expressed pretty blatant anti-semitic views in recordings of conversations he had with Nixon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCuCLA0DhBs

Meanwhile, McCain's pastor, John Hagee, has made offensive remarks about gays, Jews, and Catholics, while the Rev. Rod Parsly, an Ohio televangelist whom McCain has called a “spiritual guide,” wrote in one of his books that Islam is a “false religion” predicated on “deception.”

Give me some time and I'm sure I can find someone somewhere on the Nader and Paul campaigns who is equally unsavory.

The point is, it's stupid and ignorant to assume that the views expressed by these individuals are analogous with the beliefs held by the candidates themselves. I've heard a lot of things at sermons I've attended that I didn't agree with. But because I went to that church, I'm guilty by association? Bullshit.

In Obama's case, all this demonstrates to me is the shocking willingness of so many Americans to believe that Obama is a "secret Muslim" or some sort of "black supremacist" bent on infiltrating the White House. Give me a fucking break. When you espouse a belief like that, all it shows is what an backwards, pathetic, insecure, racist xenophobe you are.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']In this alternative world, did Africans ship Europeans in bulk to the New World, go to war against themselves to keep Europeans slaves, pass hundreds of local, state and federal laws to keep Europeans as second class citizens well into the 20th century and, in ever shrinking areas of the country, still aggressively overprosecute and overpenalize Europeans for relatively the same behavior as Africans?[/quote]I didn't respond to this because I felt it got fairly off-topic fairly quickly, but it's bugging me. Are you saying that 17th century slavery justifies 21st century hate-mongering? Certainly there are reasons for concern and action even now, but can you say that's reason for racism in the basest sense of the word? Doesn't that just further the same ignorance and idiocy of those who hate African-Americans because of their skin color?

Tybee, your post above is a good one to demonstrate that you just cannot please everyone all the time. Either you take a stand on something and exclude a group of people from supporting you, or you take no stand and get termed "wishy-washy" or a fence-sitter. I don't think this comment has anything to bear on the racist-pastor issue, but it's something that came clearly to mind reading your post. Thanks for that. :)
 
[quote name='Tybee']Okay, Ruined. Let's play your game. If Barack is guilty by association for taking spiritual guidance from a "racist pastor," then Hillary is just as guilty. Why? Because HER spiritual adviser, the Rev. Billy Graham, expressed pretty blatant anti-semitic views in recordings of conversations he had with Nixon:

Meanwhile, McCain's pastor, John Hagee, has made offensive remarks about gays, Jews, and Catholics, while the Rev. Rod Parsly, an Ohio televangelist whom McCain has called a “spiritual guide,” wrote in one of his books that Islam is a “false religion” predicated on “deception.”[/quote]

Please link where Hillary or McCain officially put either of their pastors on their campaign as a "spiritual advisor comittee" As far as I know, only Obama did this - linking his pastor to his campaign and further putting him in a position of power. And if Hillary and McCain didn't do this like Obama did, then your post just sounds like more spin and damage control. Even funnier is that you have to dig up tapes from 1972 in Hillary's case to even attempt to present something to counter the racist tirades Obama's pastor has been on for the past 5-10 years, and you have presented zero evidence regarding McCain.

The issue is not just that Obama has a blatently racist and anti-american pastor, but that Obama also knowingly put that racist pastor in an official position of political power in his campaign. That makes the pastor more than just a token religious figure, but one that actually has realtime power and influence on the political process. Neither Hillary nor McCain did this, neither of them put such a strong focus on a religious figure as Obama did. As a result, only Obama's image is sullied - just sounds like another crooked politician now. And his wife's comments are much more clear - when she stated that it was the first time she was proud of America when Obama ran for pres, obviously she was referring to the USKKKA and God Damn America content spewed by Obama's racist pastor.

The point is, it's stupid and ignorant to assume that the views expressed by these individuals are analogous with the beliefs held by the candidates themselves. I've heard a lot of things at sermons I've attended that I didn't agree with. But because I went to that church, I'm guilty by association? Bullshit.

In Obama's case, all this demonstrates to me is the shocking willingness of so many Americans to believe that Obama is a "secret Muslim" or some sort of "black supremacist" bent on infiltrating the White House. Give me a ing break. When you espouse a belief like that, all it shows is what an backwards, pathetic, insecure, racist xenophobe you are.
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Sounds more like you are interested in namecalling using "look I'm smart!" SAT words because your favorite candidate just virtually ended his chances of entering the white house by virtue of putting a racist pastor in a position of political power in his campaign.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Please link where Hillary or McCain officially put either of their pastors on their campaign as a "spiritual advisor comittee" As far as I know, only Obama did this - linking his pastor to his campaign and further putting him in a position of power. And if Hillary and McCain didn't do this like Obama did, then your post just sounds like more spin and damage control. Even funnier is that you have to dig up tapes from 1972 in Hillary's case to even attempt to present something to counter the racist tirades Obama's pastor has been on for the past 5-10 years, and you have presented zero evidence regarding McCain.

[/quote]



John McCain's "Spiritual Guide" Calls For Destruction Of Islam



Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.
On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a "spiritual guide."


i think thats pretty close to what you were looking for
 
[quote name='Ruined']
In summary, Obama and his pastor don't have the right to shit on me and others like me because of the actions of people two centuries ago. [/quote]


When did Obama state he has the right to shit on you?

Also, two centuries ago? How about 50 years ago widespread in the south and everyday in major metropolitan cities where the cops are too scared to police or ask a person with dark skin to halt before shooting?
 
[quote name='daroga']I didn't respond to this because I felt it got fairly off-topic fairly quickly, but it's bugging me. Are you saying that 17th century slavery justifies 21st century hate-mongering? Certainly there are reasons for concern and action even now, but can you say that's reason for racism in the basest sense of the word? Doesn't that just further the same ignorance and idiocy of those who hate African-Americans because of their skin color?[/quote]

My comment was in response to BigT's comment. I wasn't agreeing that Obama's pastor was spewing hatred against whites. You can tell he isn't overly fond of the white power structure, but he isn't calling for white blood to wash the streets clean.

Regarding 17th century slavery justifying 21st century hate-mongering ...

If the playing field had been leveled in 1699 and blacks were still complaining about racism, I'd laugh at blacks the same way blacks laugh at whites who claim it is too tough for a white man.

To try to link the two ...

Obama's pastor was born in 1941. He saw the civil rights movement firsthand. On the nightly news, he saw white policeman crack black skulls or worse because they dared for equality. I'm sure the time period left an impression on him.

The pastor's sermons were more along the lines of "Don't trust whitey" instead of "Kill whitey". Based on the pastor's past and present experiences, why should he trust the white man to look out from the black man?
 
I don't see those videos being that big a deal. In those he's honestly more of a conspiracy nut than a racist. Some of his political thoughts are a little crazy, but his racial ones aren't too far off. Hillary certainly was never called a $$$$er and didn't really have any hardships to overcome. She hasn't been dismissed by her own race for not being white enough. White men do control pretty much everything (checked Congress lately?) and they are all rich compared to the average person (money brings power, after all). Jesus wasn't black (I'd guess he'd be about what one would describe as Arab today), but his country was definitely controlled by people different from him and not particularly concerned with the welfare of people like him, but that's kind of beside the point of things relevant to this.

Like fatherofcaitlyn said, he seems more distrusting than aggressive. Perhaps he is a little racist, it certainly seems like he has a distrust of white people, but it's not that extreme, nor does that really mean much about Obama.

This is grasping at straws. Obama has distanced himself from his extreme comments and explained what he thinks of him. You know you can agree with someone's general feeling and not their specific points. Obama probably wants to help black people become more equal. How terrible.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Please link where Hillary or McCain officially put either of their pastors on their campaign as a "spiritual advisor comittee" As far as I know, only Obama did this - linking his pastor to his campaign and further putting him in a position of power. And if Hillary and McCain didn't do this like Obama did, then your post just sounds like more spin and damage control. Even funnier is that you have to dig up tapes from 1972 in Hillary's case to even attempt to present something to counter the racist tirades Obama's pastor has been on for the past 5-10 years, and you have presented zero evidence regarding McCain.[/quote]

Sorry, friend. Sounds like YOU'RE the one who's spinning, trying to take what is a very minor criticism and elevate it into a campaign-ending scandal. And exactly how relevant is a "spirtual adviser committee," anyway? It's not like Wright has any sort of significant sway on Obama's campaign or policy, or even as an individual...Certainly no more than Geraldine Ferraro had as a member of Hillary's fundraising committee, and we all know what SHE did (and it wasn't even the first time she'd disparaged a black candidate simply for being black). And yet, in that case, Hillary distanced herself from those remarks, Ferarro stepped down (without coming close to apologizing, mind you) and we moved on. So why is Obama not afforded the same opportunity?

But since you want evidence of Hillary's strong ties to Graham, here ya go.

Looks like others have already covered McCain, but just for good measure:

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/mccain_hagee_assured_us_his_wo.php

http://www.cjr.org/campaign_desk/the_mccainhagee_connection_1.php

http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html
 
The problem with things like this is that you'll never really know. If Obama wins the nomination, is that just barely because of the hurt this pastor caused or didn't it matter? Likewise, if he loses the nomination, is it the reason for that or did it end up being a non-issue.

I suppose polls could let us know, but I dunno.

For what it's worth, news of this does seem to be spreading far faster and wider than either of McCain's or Clinton's associations.
 
[quote name='daroga']The problem with things like this is that you'll never really know. If Obama wins the nomination, is that just barely because of the hurt this pastor caused or didn't it matter? Likewise, if he loses the nomination, is it the reason for that or did it end up being a non-issue.

I suppose polls could let us know, but I dunno.

For what it's worth, news of this does seem to be spreading far faster and wider than either of McCain's or Clinton's associations.[/quote]

If Obama states there must be reparations, he'll lose.

Right now, he didn't agree with the pastor and he's still ahead in delegate points.

The people who wouldn't vote for Obama over this probably weren't Obama supporters to begin with.
 
[quote name='Ruined']I guess CNN is living in a fantasy world too, eh?[/QUOTE]

By far and away the biggest news is Bear Stearns being bought out for a few farthings and what appears to be the coming financial meltdown. That is going to have a lot more staying power also.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/14/obama.minister/index.html

Well, the pastor is gone. There are only 5 or 6 quotes from Obama criticizing and disagreeing with him. I wonder if that is enough.[/QUOTE]

It should be more than enough at least for the people that might have been swayed in the first place.

Expect to see it all the time though especially from people like ruined, who actually managed to type "I hate to say this" without his computer blowing up.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']The people who wouldn't vote for Obama over this probably weren't Obama supporters to begin with.[/quote]Yeah, I don't think it's going to change anything for his strong supporters, but it could sway the fence-sitters one way or another.

It'll be interesting to watch regardless :)
 
Meanwhile, Obama continues to pick up more delegates. He picked up nine in Iowa over the weekend as part of follow-up caucuses. These follow-ups will be happening in most of the caucus states, allowing delegates assigned to candidates who have since dropped out of the race to be reassigned to active candidates. Thus, Obama picked up eight at the expense of John Edwards, and even took another one away from from Hillary. And it stands to reason given Obama's dominance in caucuses that the pattern will hold, stretching Obama's lead even more (it's now around 150 delegates). In fact, he's already erased and surpassed Hillary's gains from Texas and Ohio, and will quite likely be able to insulate himself against any small gains she will make in Pennsylvania.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']If Obama states there must be reparations, he'll lose.

Right now, he didn't agree with the pastor and he's still ahead in delegate points.

The people who wouldn't vote for Obama over this probably weren't Obama *zealots* to begin with.[/QUOTE]

Fixed. I was unsure of who to vote for after GW's performance combined with the ongoing battle for the democratic nominee... But now my vote is changing from "unsure" to "Definitely against Obama" after watching those videos. So that means the choice will be either Hillary or McCain if Hillary wins the nomination - or it will be McCain for sure if Obama wins. I really like Obama's speeches and his projected vision, but that vision now appears to be a lie.

Obama's dedication to the church combined with his appointing his pastor an official position of power on his campaign leaves a bad taste in my mouth after watching the videos in my sig. It just makes Obama's whole image look like a sham, and frames him in a much different light. With such a radical pastor that Obama held in such high regard for so many years I simply can't fathom how he could not sympathize with the pastor's racist & anti-american views at some level. And that, unfortunately, strikes him off my list as a presidential candidate and likely will strike him off the list of many other Americans too regardless of whether he wins the primaries. I'm quite sure many who voted for him in the primary prior to last week would now either abstain or vote against him in the presidential election after seeing the disgusting videos of his pastor/mentor. I might be wrong of course, but I believe that will be the case especially with the coverage these videos are getting. For the sake of the democratic party (and not having to watch another swift-boat-vets saga unfold, this time with the pastor's speeches) I hope the superdelegates help nominate hillary with this recent turn of events.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.racismreview.com/blog/?p=201

Joe Feagin wins where everyone else fails.[/QUOTE]

Wow. You buy the logic in that article? Just because occasionally people link to Foxnews, does not mean you have to go the other extreme.

Again, so far as I can tell, the corporate media have shown no concern desire for reparations for the still-segregated US Sunday hour, for the Dr. King anniversary, or for the many attacks, violent and verbal, that continue on the black church in the US. Is it any wonder that black ministers constantly must still call out SELL systemic racism in the United States in some strong and prophetic language?
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Fixed.


My hell, many groups in this country put up with death threats, hate, and viciousness, and disgusting intolerance. But for some reason its acceptable for a few groups to constantly hold a giant neon victim sign over their head? Somehow it's justified? You Obama supporters need to go a much different route to defend your man than this, or you will quickly be out there with the Roswell crowd.

The beauty of this article is that somehow if it were just describing religious intolerance, instead of racial intolerance, you wouldn't be linking to it on forums, or saying you agree with it.


The extreme left never ceases to amaze me. My simple seven step program for anyone that would like to sign up:

1) Discover what kind of victim you were born to be and embrace it.

2) Find a way to make the government (read: everyone else) pay for your victimhood.

3) Always focus on people's cultural/sexual/racial differences, therein lies your true power.

4) Corporations = evil.

5) Punish the successful, because not everyone can be.

6) Believe this country was founded by a bunch of racist slave owners, and without radical changes to our founding documents, we are an inherently bad country.

7) Must accept and feel ashamed for the inherent evil that our country represents on many fronts.
 
Spoken like someone who believes that racism is a thing of the past, or that blacks are solely responsible for their patterned life conditions - since racism doesn't exist, it is ruled out as a probable cause.

You don't understand the idea of systemic racism, so I don't think you're qualified to try and dictate how it is used by a pastor.
 
[quote name='Ruined']Fixed. I was unsure of who to vote for after GW's performance combined with the ongoing battle for the democratic nominee... But now my vote is changing from "unsure" to "Definitely against Obama" after watching those videos. So that means the choice will be either Hillary or McCain if Hillary wins the nomination - or it will be McCain for sure if Obama wins. I really like Obama's speeches and his projected vision, but that vision now appears to be a lie.

Obama's dedication to the church combined with his appointing his pastor an official position of power on his campaign leaves a bad taste in my mouth after watching the videos in my sig. It just makes Obama's whole image look like a sham, and frames him in a much different light. With such a radical pastor that Obama held in such high regard for so many years I simply can't fathom how he could not sympathize with the pastor's racist & anti-american views at some level. And that, unfortunately, strikes him off my list as a presidential candidate and likely will strike him off the list of many other Americans too regardless of whether he wins the primaries. I'm quite sure many who voted for him in the primary prior to last week would now either abstain or vote against him in the presidential election after seeing the disgusting videos of his pastor/mentor. I might be wrong of course, but I believe that will be the case especially with the coverage these videos are getting. For the sake of the democratic party (and not having to watch another swift-boat-vets saga unfold, this time with the pastor's speeches) I hope the superdelegates help nominate hillary with this recent turn of events.[/quote]

Sooooooo you're voting for Hillary because you think she's less controversial? Good luck with that.

Just wait 'til the Republican smear machine gets a hold of her recent tax returns. Or dredges up Bill's recent shady business dealings in Kazakhstan, among other gems. Get ready to hear the word Whitewater again. It's going to make the swiftboating of John Kerry look like they were tickling his ass with a feather.

My favorite part of all of this? Neocons, forced to concede that Obama is not a Muslim, now are trying another tack: "Okay, he's a Christian, but he's one of those scary, militant BLACK Christians, from those churches where they holler and shake and lay on hands! Be afraid! BE AFRAID!!!!!"

Which, of course, is what the Neocons ALWAYS say....Vote your prejudice. Vote your fear.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Spoken like someone who believes that racism is a thing of the past, or that blacks are solely responsible for their patterned life conditions - since racism doesn't exist, it is ruled out as a probable cause.[/quote]
Now, as usual, you put words in my mouth. Bravo for consistency.

For the record, of course racism exists. It will always, unfortunately exist, just like every other form of bigotry, intolerance, hate, and elitism exhibited in every facet of society. As long as humans are humans, it will exist.

Where we differ, obviously, is in how to deal with it.

You don't understand the idea of systemic racism, so I don't think you're qualified to try and dictate how it is used by a pastor.
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Nobody needs to understand anything of the sort when it comes to making a value judgment on disgusting anti-progressive verbal tools used to combat any problem, no matter what the source or subject matter.

In other words, there is no excuse for the rhetoric I heard come from that minister. Making crude blanket statements about "white society" is offensive, and should be. That sort of thing is never justified, regardless of any scenario you paint or opinion-link you post.

That said however - I fail to see how Obama is really connected or should be blamed. And your argument should be more about how he doesn't represent this minister, not about how his minister is somehow justified in quai-separatist hate speech.

Edit: anyone that can watch this and NOT be a little disgusted or saddened about its divisive and dangerously generalizing nature, or dare to justify it, is beyond understanding.
 
[quote name='PrarieD0G']What happen to all the "Yes we CAGs"? Haha, that's great though.[/QUOTE]

obama8.gif
 
It'll be interesting how Obama weathers this pastor storm.

He's supposed to have a speech on race tomorrow. He's got to do a good job or he risks marginalizing himself as an extremist by association (like Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, for whom whites will not generally vote). Politics is all about perception; to this date, Obama has been the hip, friendly, nonthreatening, and progressive candidate... to maintain this image, he'll likely need to throw his pastor under the bus.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']
Edit: anyone that can watch this and NOT be a little disgusted or saddened about its divisive and dangerously generalizing nature, or dare to justify it, is beyond understanding.[/quote]


You would think you would care about McCain's crazy campaign spiritual guide too, but I guess not. Parsley saying how Planned Parenthood is conducting a black genocide through abortions. [MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw8-9AGGsQw&feature=related[/MEDIA]


Where is all the coverage on this guy?
 
PENNSYLVANIA: From a new Quinnipiac Univ. poll: “The momentum in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary battle has shifted back to New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, who now leads Illinois Sen. Barack Obama 53 – 41 percent among likely primary voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. This compares to a 49 – 43 percent Sen. Clinton lead in a February 27 poll by the independent Quinnipiac University. In that survey, the momentum was with Sen. Obama who had narrowed a 52 – 36 percent gap from a February 14 poll.”

Looks like things are swinging back in Clinton's favor, I'd imagine the pastor videos are a significant contributor...
 
[quote name='Ruined']PENNSYLVANIA: From a new Quinnipiac Univ. poll: “The momentum in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary battle has shifted back to New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, who now leads Illinois Sen. Barack Obama 53 – 41 percent among likely primary voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. This compares to a 49 – 43 percent Sen. Clinton lead in a February 27 poll by the independent Quinnipiac University. In that survey, the momentum was with Sen. Obama who had narrowed a 52 – 36 percent gap from a February 14 poll.”

Looks like things are swinging back in Clinton's favor, I'd imagine the pastor videos are a significant contributor...[/quote]

I suppose you're right. What is the margin of error on both polls?

EDIT: Also, what were the racist or antiAmerican turns of phrases from the pastor?
 
[quote name='Ruined']PENNSYLVANIA: From a new Quinnipiac Univ. poll: “The momentum in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary battle has shifted back to New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, who now leads Illinois Sen. Barack Obama 53 – 41 percent among likely primary voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. This compares to a 49 – 43 percent Sen. Clinton lead in a February 27 poll by the independent Quinnipiac University. In that survey, the momentum was with Sen. Obama who had narrowed a 52 – 36 percent gap from a February 14 poll.”

Looks like things are swinging back in Clinton's favor, I'd imagine the pastor videos are a significant contributor...[/QUOTE]

So, to sum up Pennsylvania via polls:
Clinton/Obama support as of:
2/14: 52/36
2/27: 49/43
3/18: 53/41

Looks to be mostly within the margin of error as far as I'm concerned (+/- 2.7%). Not a big shift at all, IMO - so even if you want to claim that "the pastor videos are a significant contributor" (and be careful how you use the word "significant" with regards to statistics, lest you want me to ask you to show the p-level of significance), ultimately these videos are showing a very modest shift at the most.

Short version of the story: most people seem to realize that Obama =/= Rev. Wright, and that this isn't a very big deal at all to them.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']You would think you would care about McCain's crazy campaign spiritual guide too, but I guess not. Parsley saying how Planned Parenthood is conducting a black genocide through abortions. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw8-9AGGsQw&feature=related


Where is all the coverage on this guy?[/QUOTE]

Actually I'm pretty biased when it comes to this subject. I'm very opposed to any religious leader or preacher discussing or advising politics over the pulpit. It's morally wrong in my book.

A religious leader should simply advise their congregation to read about candidates, compare them to scripture, and pray about them.

As soon as any preacher starts praising or decrying a candidate or discussing political issues, I am disgusted.

And I don't think they should get to keep their tax exempt status if they do. (What's taxes on 22,000 dollars?)
 
[quote name='Ruined']PENNSYLVANIA: From a new Quinnipiac Univ. poll: “The momentum in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary battle has shifted back to New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, who now leads Illinois Sen. Barack Obama 53 – 41 percent among likely primary voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. This compares to a 49 – 43 percent Sen. Clinton lead in a February 27 poll by the independent Quinnipiac University. In that survey, the momentum was with Sen. Obama who had narrowed a 52 – 36 percent gap from a February 14 poll.”

Looks like things are swinging back in Clinton's favor, I'd imagine the pastor videos are a significant contributor...[/QUOTE]

Obama has to be very very careful how he handles this subject. The American people are pretty tired of divisive politics and if Obama doesn't play his cards right, this whole situation will doom him.

On a bright note, I listened to most of his speech this morning and was happy to hear that he pretty much agrees with me concerning his pastor.

I was also horrified by his distorted view of America, and some other things he said, but not necessarily surprised. He is a fantastic speaker though, which has mostly gotten him this far.

It's just so funny to me that Democrats have always seemed to feel they have no chance of winning without identifying a victim(s) that they can promise the big government will ride in on a white stallion and save. That's their M.O.
 
[quote name='Ruined']PENNSYLVANIA: From a new Quinnipiac Univ. poll: “The momentum in the Pennsylvania Democratic primary battle has shifted back to New York Sen. Hillary Clinton, who now leads Illinois Sen. Barack Obama 53 – 41 percent among likely primary voters, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. This compares to a 49 – 43 percent Sen. Clinton lead in a February 27 poll by the independent Quinnipiac University. In that survey, the momentum was with Sen. Obama who had narrowed a 52 – 36 percent gap from a February 14 poll.”

Looks like things are swinging back in Clinton's favor, I'd imagine the pastor videos are a significant contributor...[/quote]

That's nice. And as I've said before, I truly believe Hillary will enjoy a clear victory in Pennsylvania. But if you have paid any attention to the delegate race, i.e., the only number that matters, you'd know that she'd have to win Pennsylvania by 25+ points to even get within a hundred delegates of Obama. And it's all downhill for her from there.

Oh, and you REALLY should read (or, preferably, watch) Obama's speech today. It clearly and unequivocally answers every criticism that has been raised in light of the Reverend Wright relationship.
 
If you have to make a huge public speech about a topic, it's too late and already an issue. Obama needed to prepare for a fallout pertaining to Wright earlier on. Be honest -- Wright made some crazy comments and it was bound to come up that he was Obama's pastor when the ridiculous vetting process of our news media finally began to rip into Obama fully. McCain's had crazy supporters, so has Clinton -- and they've had to deal with those consequences. If the media handles it as they handle everything else -- he's not going to look good no matter how awesome his speech may be. They'll take snipets from it including that he condemns, but doesn't disown his pastor or that disowning his pastor would be disowning the black community -- comments like that will stick out in the press and haunt Obama. Also, his admitting that he went to services which were controversial where he previously stated he didn't...isn't good.

Again, I'm not saying it's right what they're doing to Obama...I'm just saying this is how the media reacts. They see blood and they jump. Obama's had a crappy week with this and the new details coming out about his ties to Rezko.

Also, to address Ikohn4ever's post -- Most of the major black pro-life groups compare abortion to the holocaust, especially considering the support of eugenics practices of the founder of Planned Parenthood, Margaret Sanger, which they believed to be racially charged. They may very well have been and it's hard to fully be able to tell, but that's generally where the abortion = black genocide comments stem from. Here's an example of a major black, pro-life site with some information. Doesn't mean he's right...just some info to help you understand his perspective. Also, McCain hasn't gone to services at this man's church for the past 20 years or convert to Christianity because of tihs man...so the comparison's aren't quite the same. This guy's more comparable to the Ferraro/Clinton situation where a kooky supporter of Clinton says something ridiculous to the media...and Clinton has to react accordingly. Difference being...McCain hasn't really acted too much on this and probably won't have to -- the difference in support bases, I suppose. Having vast pro-life support and having a supporter who makes some militant pro-life comments doesn't really hurt you as much as the Clinton/Ferraro situation hurt Clinton...
 
[quote name='Tybee']That's nice. And as I've said before, I truly believe Hillary will enjoy a clear victory in Pennsylvania. But if you have paid any attention to the delegate race, i.e., the only number that matters, you'd know that she'd have to win Pennsylvania by 25+ points to even get within a hundred delegates of Obama. And it's all downhill for her from there.[/QUOTE]

Neither candidate will be able to achieve the amount of delegates to win. It will be in the hands of the superdelegates, who may take a lot closer look at who is more likely to be able to win the presidency after the Obama/Wright videos have been released - and as a result, they may swing to Hillary. If Obama does get the nomination, it is going to be really tough to combat the ripple effect of the pastor's speeches.

IMO, regardless of the outcome of the democratic nomination, we will not see Obama take office as a result of these videos. They will be far too powerful 527 ammunition for Obama to overcome.
 
Ruined you can keep repeating yourself all you wish but you are deluding yourself if you think this is going to be a major factor in the long run.
 
For every Obama vote is a vote for terrorism ...............JK but seriously dont vote for Obama Bin Laden GO HILL-DOG WOOT WOOT !!!!!
 
[quote name='bluu']For every Obama vote is a vote for terrorism ...............JK but seriously dont vote for Obama Bin Laden GO HILL-DOG WOOT WOOT !!!!![/QUOTE]

zmjle0.jpg
 
[quote name='Ruined']Neither candidate will be able to achieve the amount of delegates to win. It will be in the hands of the superdelegates, who may take a lot closer look at who is more likely to be able to win the presidency after the Obama/Wright videos have been released - and as a result, they may swing to Hillary. If Obama does get the nomination, it is going to be really tough to combat the ripple effect of the pastor's speeches.

IMO, regardless of the outcome of the democratic nomination, we will not see Obama take office as a result of these videos. They will be far too powerful 527 ammunition for Obama to overcome.[/QUOTE]

Your "Obama/Wright" framing of the videos is cute - shall I refer to John Hagee's anti-Catholic and antisemitic lectures, then, as the "McCain/Hagee" videos?

I take it that you have not read Obama's speech, and even in the event you did, your mind is already so made up that it doesn't matter what he said. In your mind, this is the end of the Obama campaign; at least, you're trying to convince yourself that such is the case.

Lastly, there won't be 527s anymore: this year's trend will be the 501(c)4 group - all the power of the 527, but without the legal obligation to disclose any donor groups or individuals. Shadow PACs FTMFW.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Actually I'm pretty biased when it comes to this subject. I'm very opposed to any religious leader or preacher discussing or advising politics over the pulpit. It's morally wrong in my book.

A religious leader should simply advise their congregation to read about candidates, compare them to scripture, and pray about them.

As soon as any preacher starts praising or decrying a candidate or discussing political issues, I am disgusted.

And I don't think they should get to keep their tax exempt status if they do. (What's taxes on 22,000 dollars?)[/quote]

Damn, I totally agree with you on this TB.

I'm not so morally disgusted as much as I am frustrated that my tax money is again subsidizing loony-tunes Christian religious leaders on both sides of the aisle.

Pat Robertson was saying that this pastor guy doesn't espouse Christian values as preached by Jesus Christ. Wake up call - none of the popular American religious leaders do!
 
[quote name='camoor']Pat Robertson was saying that this pastor guy doesn't espouse Christian values as preached by Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Ouch...can't breathe....irony....too much....the laughing. :lol:
 
[quote name='camoor']Pat Robertson was saying that this pastor guy doesn't espouse Christian values as preached by Jesus Christ.[/quote]

Ouch...can't breathe....irony....too much....the laughing. :lol:

That's the pot calling the kettle n*gger if ever I've heard it.
 
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