US Senate fails to ratify UN treaty on disabilities

cancerman1120

CAGiversary!
Have the Republicans really fallen so far?

A UN treaty to protect the rights of the disabled with no change in US law or enforcement mechanisms failed to pass the 2/3 ratification process when 38 Republicans voted against it. This was a treaty that Bob Dole wheeled himself into the Senate chambers to endorse and John Kerry and John McCain stumped for together. This party does not know it is dead yet does it? The reasons given by some of the Senators for voting against this treaty were of the highest order of paranoia. The fact they think the UN may try to make home schooled children's homes disabled friendly is a stretch Mr Fantastic would have a hard time performing.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/us-senate-fails-ratify-un-treaty-disabilities-022555840.html
 
They all fear the New World Order.

Which to be honest, I can't blame them. I wouldn't want to be ruled by those guys either.
 
[quote name='Clak']They all fear the New World Order.

Which to be honest, I can't blame them. I wouldn't want to be ruled by those guys either.[/QUOTE]

That makes me think about how my Brother-in law is against using online bill pay or something. I guess there is some Bible stuff about using only paper money? Not really sure but it is all mumbo jumbo crap holding back real progress.

Edit: I guess it is some "Mark of the Beast" BS. I really hate people sometimes.
 
It is sad really. They are rejecting something supported by McCain, Bob Dole, and both President Bush.
 
Can someone tell me what the difference is between this and the americans with disabilities act? Or why we needed to ratify a UN treaty (that has no teeth whatsoever)?
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Can someone tell me what the difference is between this and the americans with disabilities act? Or why we needed to ratify a UN treaty (that has no teeth whatsoever)?[/QUOTE]

There is no difference. In fact, the point of this measure was the UN modeled this after the Americans with Disabilities Act. Republicans talk about how the world looks to us as beacon of hope, an example to strive for and yet they cannot be part of a treaty when other nations wish to live up to that example. It is elitism at its worst. The point is the US should have been front and center promoting and passing this treaty instead of hiding behind "sovereignty" when they know it never places the sovereignty of this nation in jeopardy. Pretty hard to be a beacon of hope to the world when you are also playing the bully to it.
 
Its worse than that. We're talking about a treaty that WE shopped around since the nineties ,when Dole got HW on board with the idea. We brought it to the UN. We floated it until 126 other countries bought in. And then we shot down our own idea. We look like fuckin goons

And we didnt even have to do anything , we already have ADA. The rest of the world would've had to play catch up while we sat back and watched.

Its absurdly gross negligence.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']You could have just said there is no difference, it's just a stupid symbolic move that doesn't affect any Americans whether it passed or got shot down.[/QUOTE]

Maybe the people who voted against it did so as a statement to say "stop calling sessions and wasting our time".

Did anyone go on record and say why they were against it?
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']You could have just said there is no difference, it's just a stupid symbolic move that doesn't affect any Americans whether it passed or got shot down.[/QUOTE]

You know it's not always only about us. This is a piece legislature that we have pushed for and got 126 other countries to adopt but when it's our turn we shit the bed. We look like fools but then again that is nothing new.
 
The treaty was largely symbolic for the United States in that it codifies in international law many of the rights already afforded under the Americans for Disabilities Act (ADA), the historic US law passed in 1990.

Awesome. I think it would be invaluable to have our Senate spend more time voting on symbolic treaties :roll:
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']You could have just said there is no difference, it's just a stupid symbolic move that doesn't affect any Americans whether it passed or got shot down.[/QUOTE]

So disabled Americans traveling abroad do not benefit from a world that recognizes and tries to make it easier to traverse their country? It is NOT symbolic. This provides the framework for those countries to pass legislation for themselves. How does it look when the supposed "gold standard" country cannot even stand side by side with them? If it was so symbolic then why did Republicans vote it down? You are going to argue that in circles if you try. Either it means something or does not.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Awesome. I think it would be invaluable to have our Senate spend more time voting on symbolic treaties :roll:[/QUOTE]

You cannot lead from behind.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']You know it's not always only about us. This is a piece legislature that we have pushed for and got 126 other countries to adopt but when it's our turn we shit the bed. We look like fools but then again that is nothing new.[/QUOTE]

Wow. I guess that since this wasn't passed in the UN, all 126 other countries are now completely unable to adopt ADA-like legislation within their own countries? That's crazy.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Wow. I guess that since this wasn't passed in the UN, all 126 other countries are now completely unable to adopt ADA-like legislation within their own countries? That's crazy.[/QUOTE]

Missed the point. It does not need the US to ratify it. Other countries can enter treaties without us. The point is the US pushed for this and then left everyone hanging when the rubber met the road. We look like fools but for many here I know that does not matter what the rest of the world thinks.
 
[quote name='cancerman1120']Missed the point. It does not need the US to ratify it. Other countries can enter treaties without us. The point is the US pushed for this and then left everyone hanging when the rubber met the road. We look like fools but for many here I know that does not matter what the rest of the world thinks.[/QUOTE]

If I were a Senator I'd push for various amendments or legislation and vote against it anyway. As an example, if I pushed for an amendment in the NDAA that called for closing all foreign bases down immediately and somehow managed to get that passed, I'd still vote against the final NDAA bill.

For what it's worth (not much, since I'm obviously not a Senator. Nor will I ever be one).
 
We look like fools for having some of our representatives hold to their principles? That's the point of our republic. It went to a vote, and didn't pass. I seriously doubt that the Republicans who voted against it were the people pushing for it. I haven't read it yet, but maybe there is some questionable language in it that they saw problems with. It also seems redundant, especially since the other countries can still accept it. I applaud it being voted down. Work on some real issues and leave this type of crap alone. More laws and regulations are the last thing I want.
 
[quote name='egofed']We look like fools for having some of our representatives hold to their principles? That's the point of our republic. It went to a vote, and didn't pass. I seriously doubt that the Republicans who voted against it were the people pushing for it. I haven't read it yet, but maybe there is some questionable language in it that they saw problems with. It also seems redundant, especially since the other countries can still accept it. I applaud it being voted down. Work on some real issues and leave this type of crap alone. More laws and regulations are the last thing I want.[/QUOTE]

Except it was neither a law nor a regulation. You are one car wreck away from needing protections like this but the grass is always greener I know.

Due to Republican opposition, the Senate this week failed to ratify a United Nations treaty that seeks to protect the rights of disabled people around the world. The treaty, known as the Convention on the Rights of Persons With Disabilities (CRPD) and negotiated by George W. Bush in 2006, would essentially make the Americans With Disabilities Act an international standard, requiring other signatories to implement laws preventing discrimination against the blind, AIDS patients, and wounded soldiers, among others. Before the vote, former Senate Majority Leader Bob Dole (R-Kan.), whose arm was shattered in World War II, was literally rolled out on the Senate floor in a wheelchair to voice his support for the treaty. Well, "it isn't Bob Dole's Senate anymore," says Meredith Shiner at Roll Call. Arguably, Senate Republicans were more swayed by former Sen. Rick Santorum (R-Penn.), who earlier in the week gave an impassioned speech calling on senators to vote "nay." So what were the GOP's objections to the treaty?

1. It violates U.S. sovereignty
"I do oppose the [CRPD] because I think it does impinge on our sovereignty," said Sen. Jim Inhofe (R-Okla.). "Unelected bureaucratic bodies would implement the treaty and pass so-called recommendations that would be forced upon the United Nations and the U.S."

2. It would kill Rick Santorum's disabled child
The CRPD's "best interest of the child" standard "may sound like it protects children, but what it does is put the government, acting under U.N. authority, in the position to determine for all children with disabilities what is best for them," says Santorum at World News Daily. "In the case of our 4-year-old daughter, Bella, who has Trisomy 18, a condition that the medical literature says is 'incompatible with life,' would her 'best interest' be that she be allowed to die? Some would undoubtedly say so."

3. It's an attack on home-schoolers
"I and many of my constituents who home-school or send their children to religious schools have justifiable doubt that a foreign body based in Geneva, Switzerland, should be deciding what is best for a child at home in Utah," said Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah).

4. It would turn the U.S. into a socialist state
"The other thing that everybody in America will be living under is socialism as an international entitlement," said Michael Farris, a home-schooling activist who also spoke against the bill on the Senate floor. "We're signing up now for our first economic, social, and cultural treaty which means as a matter of international binding law that goes to the supremacy clause in our Constitution, we're signing up to be an official socialist nation, cradle-to-grave care for the disabled."

5. It would force the U.S. to pay for abortions
"The global community could force America to sanction sterilization or abortion for the disabled — at taxpayer expense," said Tony Perkins, the head of the Family Research Council, citing a treaty clause that requires signatories to provide disabled people health care in the areas of reproductive health.

As critics of these naysayers point out, there is no evidence to support any of these claims. The treaty would not impose any burdens that are not already contained in the American With Disabilities Act. If anything, the U.S. is imposing its laws on the international community. As an exasperated Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) explained, the whole point of the treaty is to tell the world: "Be more like us."

"To use the parlance of international relations scholars," says Daniel W. Drezner at Foreign Policy, the Republican position "is dumber than a bag of hammers."

To be fair, a handful of Republican senators, including Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), joined Democrats in supporting the treaty, though the 61-38 vote fell short of the two-thirds majority needed for ratification. And it's unlikely that Republicans really bought what Santorum and hard-core conservative groups were selling. Many of these politicians probably voted it down to stave off a future primary challenge from the right in the spirit of self-preservation. Indeed, Sen. Thad Cochran (R-Miss.), who is up for re-election in 2014, "changed his vote from an 'aye' to a 'nay' after it was obvious the treaty would fall short of ratification," says Shiner.
 
[quote name='egofed'] I seriously doubt that the Republicans who voted against it were the people pushing for it. I haven't read it yet, but maybe there is some questionable language in it that they saw problems with. It also seems redundant, especially since the other countries can still accept it. I applaud it being voted down.[/QUOTE]

You's the ho that falls in love with his Republican pimp.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G03CwWvtdF0
 
I see it as a bunch of big government wanting ho's loving their "nanny state" government pimps. Making private entities cater to any special interest by threat of force or imprisonment is wrong in my book. I railed against the idiot Republican proposition that wanted to require invasive ultrasounds before some abortions. You can't complain about big government and then try to pull that crap. I AM for major government rules on anybody receiving a check from the taxpayers. Accountability is all I'm really asking for....
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']You could have just said there is no difference, it's just a stupid symbolic move that doesn't affect any Americans whether it passed or got shot down.[/QUOTE]
But that wouldnt be true. The point of it was for Americans with disabilities to have the same standards they do here at home when they travel abroad. Not symbolic
 
[quote name='egofed']I see it as a bunch of big government wanting ho's loving their "nanny state" government pimps. Making private entities cater to any special interest by threat of force or imprisonment is wrong in my book. I railed against the idiot Republican proposition that wanted to require invasive ultrasounds before some abortions. You can't complain about big government and then try to pull that crap. I AM for major government rules on anybody receiving a check from the taxpayers. Accountability is all I'm really asking for....[/QUOTE]

You cant say it was about big or bigger government. Nothing was required of us. Wouldnt have costed a penny.

[quote name='egofed']We look like fools for having some of our representatives hold to their principles? That's the point of our republic. It went to a vote, and didn't pass. I seriously doubt that the Republicans who voted against it were the people pushing for it. I haven't read it yet, but maybe there is some questionable language in it that they saw problems with. It also seems redundant, especially since the other countries can still accept it. I applaud it being voted down. Work on some real issues and leave this type of crap alone. More laws and regulations are the last thing I want.[/QUOTE]

You confuse me so sometimes dude...
You have no idea why it was shot down , yet you fully support whatever reason it was : And thats what passes for principles?
 
[quote name='egofed']I see it as a bunch of big government wanting ho's loving their "nanny state" government pimps. Making private entities cater to any special interest by threat of force or imprisonment is wrong in my book. I railed against the idiot Republican proposition that wanted to require invasive ultrasounds before some abortions. You can't complain about big government and then try to pull that crap. I AM for major government rules on anybody receiving a check from the taxpayers. Accountability is all I'm really asking for....[/QUOTE]

I love that people with disabilities are a "special interest" in your book. Compassion must come hard for you. Yeah you got wheelchair and need to get into my building? Well fuck you for being disabled. Many of these private entities touting their freedom only have it because of disabled vets who fought for it.
 
Shows you the truth of the matter and whats important to Republicans thats for sure. Need I remind everyone: We just got done fighting one war and are winding down the other. Two wars that we fought simultaneously I might add. You have a whole new group of disabled people entering the workforce. A Highly skilled and young laborforce at that. We could've really done something here to expand their opportunities and we fuckin blew it.
 
That's the point of true freedom! People are free to be assholes! The disabled are free to not enter any building they choose and a free business owner should be able to have whatever type of access he wants. Your compassion does not trump my freedom. True compassion comes from the personal deeds that we do in our lives, not from making the government strong arm another private citizen to capitulate to what you deem appropriate. Those vets fought for THAT freedom.
 
special interestn. A person, group, or organization attempting to influence legislators in favor of one particular interest or issue.
 
The idea of true freedom in any society is a fallacy. At what point do you draw a line then? How you can even write the sentence "disabled are free to not enter any building they choose" shows so much disconnect to reality. What you are subscribing to is anarchy not freedom. "All men are created equal" means sometimes the government needs to force those who choose to not follow that tenant to bend to the law of the land.
 
[quote name='egofed']special interestn. A person, group, or organization attempting to influence legislators in favor of one particular interest or issue.[/QUOTE]

And I ask you exactly what are the interests of the disabled? What exactly are they asking for that you find so obtrusive to your freedom?
 
[quote name='EdRyder']You have no idea why it was shot down , yet you fully support whatever reason it was : And thats what passes for principles?[/QUOTE]

Thats it in a nuthshell.
 
I'm glad that some of you are the fringe of our society. I'd hate to think the majority of people in this country thought like egodouche here.
 
[quote name='egofed']That's the point of true freedom! People are free to be assholes! The disabled are free to not enter any building they choose and a free business owner should be able to have whatever type of access he wants. Your compassion does not trump my freedom. True compassion comes from the personal deeds that we do in our lives, not from making the government strong arm another private citizen to capitulate to what you deem appropriate. Those vets fought for THAT freedom.[/QUOTE]

Where have we heard this before? Oh wait, I remember folks down in the south making the same arguments in the 60s during the civil rights movement. Replace vets/disabled with blacks or women and you will see the same arguments come up over and over again. Keep in mind that your "freedoms" are not superior to those of someone else's.
 
[quote name='EdRyder']You have no idea why it was shot down , yet you fully support whatever reason it was : And thats what passes for principles?[/QUOTE]

egofed knows nothing about the issue but the Republicans must be right. Might as well slap a "Property of Boehner" sticker across his ass.

egofed likes to pretend that he is some anti 'big brother govt' crusader, but the truth is that he is a low value-add govt employee who follows the Republican party like a dog on a leash.

And don't get me wrong, I think firefighters are the best, but this guy is the equivalent of the slow-stop guy on the road construction team. The guys obviously give him all the choice assignments like escorting little old ladies to the hospital and cleaning up after someone dies on the toilet.
 
Hehehehhhheehhe....My point is that I don't like the government having the power to tell private entities what and how to do things. I think that I've trash talked the Republicans just about as much as the Democrats in my posts throughout this forum. Its quite amusing to see you guys call me out like I'm in Boehner's back pocket when I seldom, if ever see you take issue with anything the Left does. Where is the outrage about Jesse Jr? My comments are about individual's freedoms and rights. Slavery and civil rights are by no means equivalent to what I'm saying. A private company should be able to build their structure as they like, heck, a private company should be able to exclude anybody they don't want also. You hate midgets and have the money to build a franchise called "Midget Haters", more power to ya. That's freedom and liberty for you. I may not like your choices, but I'll defend your right to them.

I'm not the "dead body on the toilet clean up guy". It came in as a cardiac arrest. We just pronounced her. The police take it from there. The apparatus you are assigned to for the day dictates what role you perform, and that is set by a rotating schedule. Some days you drive, others you are the officer depending on staffing. I'm actually the lead in a lot of our station's training. Its very humorous to see how you guys cast personal aspersions on someone who has different beliefs and opinions then you. How very....liberal.;-)

I picked up that dmaul is some form of professor. What about camoor and Clak? And I definitely can't wait for my buddy dough to reappear.;-)
 
Their is nothing better then "symbolically" pressuring third world countries to build ramps, elevators, hand rails, and larger bathroom stalls in their mud huts .

If we do it then it must be right for everyone else... right?

I'm not saying the ADA is a bad thing (it's actually done a lot of good) but in some aspects it can be terrible for businesses.

When I worked for Job Corps we were an entity that was funded by the Department of Labor. In fact, the buildings were owned by the Department of Labor. I was on a "Safety Committee" and part of my job was to look at each building and make sure it met the standards set forth by the ADA. If something was not compliant a plan had to be drafted on how to make it compliant.

We had no students that needed wheel chair access yet all door ways and hall ways had to be a certain width.... if they weren't then guess what? Money had to come out of our operating budget (your tax dollars) to build bigger door ways and hall ways.

Limited Parking spaces? No handicap employees? Too bad; we had to make sure we followed the ADA ratio; which left us with something like 8 empty handicap parking sports on a daily basis.

Dorm capacity dropped by 15 students when each resident hall had to have 4 handicap rooms (not once in 4 years did we have a student that needed the accommodations).

But all money well spent in the quest for "social" progress.....
 
I picked up that dmaul is some form of professor. What about camoor and Clak? And I definitely can't wait for my buddy dough to reappear.;-)
I think camoor does something in finances (though I may be confusing him for someone else) and Clak is in high school.
 
I wish I could spend just one single day viewing the world as you guys do. I think it'd be incredibly frustrating.
 
[quote name='egofed']My comments are about individual's freedoms and rights. Slavery and civil rights are by no means equivalent to what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]

Actually the crux of your argument is the same. No one else can impinge on your "natural" freedoms just as these "nice" folks thought nearly 50 years ago.

[quote name='egofed']A private company should be able to build their structure as they like, heck, a private company should be able to exclude anybody they don't want also. You hate midgets and have the money to build a franchise called "Midget Haters", more power to ya. That's freedom and liberty for you. I may not like your choices, but I'll defend your right to them.[/QUOTE]

But thankfully SCOTUS decided this issue a long time ago... the answer is NO. Check out the following Supreme Court decision in Heart of Atlanta vs US.
 
The Supreme Court has also ruled that it is okay for the government to take private land from one individual and transfer ownership to another private individual so they can build mini-malls and crap.

The Supreme Court is always right.

Like when they said there's no limit to the amount of money a private corporation can spend on a candidate's campaign. Supreme Court nailed that one too, eh?
 
I'm actually a little torn in my opinion with your story, GBA. Government buildings are funded by taxpayer dollars, if, that was the case, then I'm happy for some regulation making modest accommodations for the disabled. It sounds, like is often the case, that the regulations became so bloated, complex, and unnecessary that they caused more harm then good. We carried a 1000 lb man out of government housing before at my job. I was very thankful for the wide ADA doors, but should the government really be enforcing such mandates because super obese people have no will power? Once again, personal accountability. The government over reaches almost every single time with this type of program. One handicap space should be enough. Somewhere along the line, the disabled person or his/her caretaker needs to make their own accommodations. I took the test for fire marshall, and am at the top of the list. I'm actually very hesitant to take the job though. Not only would I lose my kickass schedule, but I would go into privately owned residences and businesses and enforce fire code. Most of it is reasonable. You want firefighters to come into your home and help you, then make it reasonably safe....but some of it is tyrannical. I don't see myself in good conscience enforcing the goofy, do as big brother commands parts.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']The Supreme Court has also ruled that it is okay for the government to take private land from one individual and transfer ownership to another private individual so they can build mini-malls and crap.

The Supreme Court is always right.

Like when they said there's no limit to the amount of money a private corporation can spend on a candidate's campaign. Supreme Court nailed that one too, eh?[/QUOTE]

Not even close to being always right, but in the example I selected they were. Otherwise various establishments would still be able to discriminate based on race, sex or religion.
 
Hehhehehe..good one, Bob. Civil rights apply to the public in my opinion. If you want to be an ignorant, racist, stupid jerk and only allow rich white dudes as members of your country club that is privately owned and funded, and you want to make the only access a barb wire ladder suspended 30 foot in the air, it should be legal. Don't be shocked when people speak badly of you and boycott all of your dealings though. Also don't be surprised when public servants refuse to enter and help you. Accountability and repercussions to your actions. Private rules and structures are not infringing on anyone's civil rights. Man, it seems like we'd give up all of our freedom for complacency and comfort.
 
Private establishments Kill3r7! The government can not force racism/sexism out of peoples' minds. All it can do is infringe on our personal freedoms with rules, quotas, and regulations cloaked in liberal good intentions. Either we have freedom or we don't.
 
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