US Senate fails to ratify UN treaty on disabilities

You say they're right when you agree with the decision. You say they're wrong when you disagree with the decision.

How is that any different from anyone else who says they're wrong when they disagree with the decision or right when they agree?

And I have no legal qualms with a private citizen who wishes to restrict access to his or her private property based on whatever criteria he or she desires. I believe that it is a First Amendment right - that The Freedom of Association includes an individual's right to determine whom they wish to associate with and that the government of the United States does not have the right to make that determination for the individuals.
 
Thankfully most people see the problem with discrimination. Some are just a few decades behind. :)
 
Exactly, Bob. Legal issue versus thinking that that they are poor specimens of humanity are two different things. Freedom has to apply to the unpopular and vile aspects of human nature to truly protect all the rest. As long as its on private property, doesn't physically harm another, or infringe on someone else then it should be good to go.
 
Clak, you want the government to decide what a person is allowed to think and do in their private business? I dislike abortion and see it as murder. What's worse discrimination or murder? I recognize that the government should have no role in determining a privates citizens thoughts, actions, or what they determine is right or wrong until it harms another person.

Going surfing. I'll check into your responses later.
 
[quote name='egofed']That's the point of true freedom! People are free to be assholes! The disabled are free to not enter any building they choose and a free business owner should be able to have whatever type of access he wants. Your compassion does not trump my freedom. True compassion comes from the personal deeds that we do in our lives, not from making the government strong arm another private citizen to capitulate to what you deem appropriate. Those vets fought for THAT freedom.[/QUOTE]

WTH are you talkin about crazy town?
In America , You are not free to be an asshole when it comes to discrimination.
One more time : We already have the Americans with Disabilities act.

So, Those vets fought for the Freedom of Corporations in China?
The Freedom to not have to build ramps?
What the frak is all this talk about ramps anyway? Not a single Republican said anything about forcing corporations into building ramps and completing construction jobs.. (Again , We already have that here in FreedomTown USA) Also the whole thing about Ramps and access is a pretty narrow view of Vets with disabilities. The number one disability amongst Vets has to be hearing loss...
Again , How in the hell did a discussion about the rest of the world willingly expanding the protections of people with disabilities turn into a convo where you and Bob are laying the groundwork for America to repeal ADA for ourselves?
Bananas.
 
"Under Title III, no individual may be discriminated against on the basis of disability with regards to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, or accommodations of any place of public accommodation by any person who owns, leases (or leases to), or operates a place of public accommodation. "Public accommodations" include most places of lodging (such as inns and hotels), recreation, transportation, education, and dining, along with stores, care providers, and places of public displays, among other things."

You don't want someone over to your private residence then fine but as soon as your private entity falls under the guidelines of public accommodations you need to follow the law. Your business is not an island. Private business benefits from many publicly funded projects (roads, certain utilities, police and fire protection) and therefore does not have the freedom to discriminate.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']You say they're right when you agree with the decision. You say they're wrong when you disagree with the decision.

How is that any different from anyone else who says they're wrong when they disagree with the decision or right when they agree?[/QUOTE]

I give you that right or wrong is a matter of opinion but protection of civil liberties, specifically the Civil Liberties Act which was enacted by congress and the senate, is one of the great accomplishments of our judicial system.

[quote name='UncleBob']And I have no legal qualms with a private citizen who wishes to restrict access to his or her private property based on whatever criteria he or she desires. I believe that it is a First Amendment right - that The Freedom of Association includes an individual's right to determine whom they wish to associate with and that the government of the United States does not have the right to make that determination for the individuals.[/QUOTE]

There is a difference in denying an individual's right to freedom of assembly and association and discriminating against a protected class of citizens. Take Augusta National as an example. Since its inception this establishment has maintained its members only status. Due to this they can choose who they want to allow in (the same principal applies to fraternities and sororities). I might not like their behavior but they are free to do as they please. However, if Augusta National decided to open its doors to all comers and then discriminate solely against women (based on sex) they would be violating federal law.

Private businesses cannot discriminate against a federally protected class of citizens since they are part of the chain of commerce and as such must abide federal laws. You see your privately owned business, located on private land, still uses federal resources such as roads which bring goods in and out. Also, it receives benefits from the state that it is located in. If you were to follow the chain of commerce you would see that virtually no business out there is truly independent/private. The same thing would hold true for people but most libertarians don't want to hear that. To each his own I guess. Afterall, that is what libertarians want.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Can someone explain to me the difference between discriminating and failing to make things more "convenient".[/QUOTE]

I'll start off by giving you the legal definition of discrimination. Discrimination refers to the treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. Discrimination can be the effect of some law or established practice that confers privileges on a certain class or denies privileges to a certain class because of race, age, sex, nationality, religion, or handicap. Federal law, including Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, prohibits employment discrimination based on any one of those characteristics. Other federal statutes, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in voting rights, housing, credit extension, public education, and access to public facilities. State laws also provide further protection against discrimination.

The law, be it state or federal, merely list the base requirement which one must abide by in order to satisfy it. You can go above and beyond that requirement, that is your choice. The one thing you cannot do is go below said requirement.
Ex. By state law, a store owner has to provide a ramp for disabled people to have access to his establishment. Furthermore, said owner also has to make sure his establishment has bathrooms and other things to accommodate people with disabilities. Not meeting these baseline requirement results in a violation of the law or ordinance, which usually means a suspension of your business license and/or fine.

I guess what I'm saying is that in the eyes of the law you'll never be punished for not making something more "convenient" unless the bar is raised by the state or federal government. All the gov is asking you to do is meet the bare minimum standard.
​
 
[quote name='kill3r7']
I'll start off by giving you the legal definition of discrimination. Discrimination refers to the treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit. Discrimination can be the effect of some law or established practice that confers privileges on a certain class or denies privileges to a certain class because of race, age, sex, nationality, religion, or handicap. Federal law, including Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, prohibits employment discrimination based on any one of those characteristics. Other federal statutes, supplemented by court decisions, prohibit discrimination in voting rights, housing, credit extension, public education, and access to public facilities. State laws also provide further protection against discrimination.



The law, be it state or federal, merely list the base requirement which one must abide by in order to satisfy it. You can go above and beyond that requirement, that is your choice. The one thing you cannot do is go below said requirement.



Ex. By state law a store owner has to provide a ramp for disabled people to allow access to his establishment for them. Not following this law/ordinance results in a violation which usually means a suspension of your business license and/or fine.


I guess what I'm saying is that in the eyes of the law you'll never be punished for not making something more convenient unless the bar is raised by the state or federal government. All the gov is asking you to do is meet the bare minimum standard.
​
[/QUOTE]


Thank you. That is a solid answer and puts things into perspective. So the government has decided what constitutes discrimination as it pertains to the handicap. They have set standards that must be put into place to accomodate this class of protected people and any business that fails to meet such standards is guilty of discrimination?

Who is exempt from such things? The last time I went snowboarding I didn't see special lifts nor did I see a ramp to the top of Mt. Katahdin?

I did however notice an "other" bathroom in one of the local high schools... I suppose that is next.
 
[quote name='Clak']I wish I could spend just one single day viewing the world as you guys do. I think it'd be incredibly frustrating.[/QUOTE]

I would pay just to sit them down with a pen and paper and just ask them to jot down how they think the world works.

Also we keep seeing shitty votes explained by "principles" from and by people with no principles.
 
Nah, we know how they think the world works. I want to see the world through conservative goggles.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/06/o...=general&gwh=327C3B94A787A04F7776AC4DB86B944A

The theory about the treaty on the disabled is that the bit about “best interests of the child” could be translated into laws prohibiting disabled children from being home-schooled. At his press conference, Santorum acknowledged that wasn’t in the cards. But he theorized that someone might use the treaty in a lawsuit “and through the court system begin to deny parents the right to raise their children in conformity with what they believe.”

If I felt you were actually going to worry about this, I would tell you that the Senate committee that approved the treaty included language specifically forbidding its use in court suits. But, instead, I will tell you about my own fears. Every day I take the subway to work, and I use a fare card that says “subject to applicable tariffs and conditions of use.” What if one of those conditions is slave labor? Maybe the possibility of me being grabbed at the turnstile and carted off to a salt mine isn’t in the specific law, but what if a bureaucrat somewhere in the Metropolitan Transportation Authority decided to interpret it that way?

No one should have to live in fear of forced labor in the salt mine just because she bought a fare card at the Times Square subway station! I want some action on this matter, and I am writing to my senator right away.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='egofed']A private company should be able to build their structure as they like, heck, a private company should be able to exclude anybody they don't want also. You hate midgets and have the money to build a franchise called "Midget Haters", more power to ya. That's freedom and liberty for you.[/QUOTE]

And I'll fight every day to get a just and compassionate govt that closes down any business that discriminates. We don't need more incidents like this one:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/13/dwarf-paralyzed-after-bar-tossing_n_1204799.html

[quote name='GBAstar']Their is nothing better then "symbolically" pressuring third world countries to build ramps, elevators, hand rails, and larger bathroom stalls in their mud huts .[/QUOTE]

Mud huts? What countries would that be? You racist.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']The mud huts tend to be in Africa, south America and pacific islands.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='GBAstar']You just love calling everyone a racist. It appears to be this generation's "McCarthyism".[/QUOTE]

No you are both ignorant racists. There are plenty of structures in Africa, South America, and the Pacific Islands that these regulations apply to.

Mud huts. fucking really man? You're going to try and defend this now?
 
Hm. I wasn't aware that shelters had races now. Interesting.

[quote name='kill3r7']You see your privately owned business, located on private land, still uses federal resources such as roads which bring goods in and out. Also, it receives benefits from the state that it is located in. If you were to follow the chain of commerce you would see that virtually no business out there is truly independent/private. The same thing would hold true for people[...][/QUOTE]

So, why not pass a law that restricts the ability of individuals to choose which businesses they shop at? Individuals use roads and receive benefits from the state. Could you imagine a law that would let, say, a female business owner sue all the male citizens within a community for not shopping at her business, claiming that they're discriminating against her?
 
Know what else is depressing? Look up the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. It's been ratified by the whole world except the US and Somalia.
 
[quote name='ElwoodCuse']Know what else is depressing? Look up the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. It's been ratified by the whole world except the US and Somalia.[/QUOTE]

"It is the principle of the thing" says people who stone 8 year olds to death for disobedience.
 
[quote name='camoor']No you are both ignorant racists. There are plenty of structures in Africa, South America, and the Pacific Islands that these regulations apply to.

Mud huts. fucking really man? You're going to try and defend this now?[/QUOTE]

Africa should start worrying about how to get food to their mud huts, not wheelchairs. The palaces that their insane leaders live in don't need to have ramps at this time. It's not like it's very effective to go and speak at the board of supervisors meeting anyway.
[quote name='UncleBob']So... in those countries that ratified it... how are they doing on the scale of actually enforcing those "rights"? :([/QUOTE]
Politicians love feel-good laws that actually do nothing and/or are not enforced, and it's good to see some people in this country not voting for something just because it sounds good.
 
[quote name='Spokker']Africa should start worrying about how to get food to their mud huts, not wheelchairs. The palaces that their insane leaders live in don't need to have ramps at this time. It's not like it's very effective to go and speak at the board of supervisors meeting anyway.

Politicians love feel-good laws that actually do nothing and/or are not enforced, and it's good to see some people in this country not voting for something just because it sounds good.[/QUOTE]

Looks like you won't be sitting at the popular table today.
 
[quote name='Spokker']Africa should start worrying about how to get food to their mud huts, not wheelchairs. The palaces that their insane leaders live in don't need to have ramps at this time. It's not like it's very effective to go and speak at the board of supervisors meeting anyway.[/QUOTE]

dv802074.jpg


Thats Nairobi, Kenya.

Does Africa have problems? Yes of course. Is it nothing but mud huts and crazy dictators in palaces? Hell no, and it's ignorant and racist to assume that.
 
[quote name='egofed']Hehehehhhheehhe....My point is that I don't like the government having the power to tell private entities what and how to do things. )[/QUOTE]

[quote name='egofed']I AM for major government rules on anybody receiving a check from the taxpayers. Accountability is all I'm really asking for....[/QUOTE]

[quote name='egofed']More laws and regulations are the last thing I want.[/QUOTE]

You're a complex guy who's able to hold several different positions at once.
 
[quote name='RealDeals']
images
[/QUOTE]



From the article:

So, as Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts kept pointing out during the debate, this is a treaty to make the rest of the world behave more like the United States.
Click to expand...

Yes I think we can all agree that the world would be a much better place if everyone started behaving more like Americans.

Kim Kardashian 2016.
 
[quote name='camoor']Is it nothing but mud huts and crazy dictators in palaces?[/quote]

::looks to see where anyone said that::

::sees only camoor's post::

[quote name='camoor']Hell no, and it's ignorant and racist to assume that.[/QUOTE]

Ah.
 
[quote name='RealDeals']We got some SERIOUS thread derailing circle jerking here today...[/QUOTE]

...says the guy who has a previous post that is nothing but a picture of a Spongebob character...
 
[quote name='UncleBob']...says the guy who has a previous post that is nothing but a picture of a Spongebob character...[/QUOTE]
I figured you'd be able to relate :lol: I know I shouldn't indulge you, but Spokker clearly said: 'Africa should start worrying about how to get food to their mud huts, not wheelchairs. The palaces that their insane leaders live in don't need to have ramps at this time. It's not like it's very effective to go and speak at the board of supervisors meeting anyway.'

Explicit enough for you? I say that knowing full well you were aware of that and just want to keep on maintaining that sweet ol' cognitive dissonance. :roll:
 
[quote name='RealDeals']I figured you'd be able to relate :lol: I know I shouldn't indulge you, but Spokker clearly said: 'Africa should start worrying about how to get food to their mud huts, not wheelchairs. The palaces that their insane leaders live in don't need to have ramps at this time. It's not like it's very effective to go and speak at the board of supervisors meeting anyway.'

Explicit enough for you? I say that knowing full well you were aware of that and just want to keep on maintaining that sweet ol' cognitive dissonance. :roll:[/QUOTE]

The racism and ignorance that Spokker and GBA put on display is shocking. Troy is a little more coy but you don't have to be a genius to see his passive aggressive racism. But Spokker and GBA - they post about it proudly. Dudes have a serious problem.
 
[quote name='RealDeals']I figured you'd be able to relate :lol: I know I shouldn't indulge you, but Spokker clearly said: 'Africa should start worrying about how to get food to their mud huts, not wheelchairs. The palaces that their insane leaders live in don't need to have ramps at this time. It's not like it's very effective to go and speak at the board of supervisors meeting anyway.'

Explicit enough for you? I say that knowing full well you were aware of that and just want to keep on maintaining that sweet ol' cognitive dissonance. :roll:[/QUOTE]

Interesting. So you admit he acknowledged that there are more than just mud huts in Africa?

And you take offense to the idea that African countries should be worrying about getting everyone in to the most basic of living conditions before bringing up the quality of life in cities like the one shown earlier in this thread?
 
Leave Bob alone. He's deeply lacking in any sense of personal responsibility to own up to when he's wrong or when he misrepresents someone else's words.

He's over here playing semantics to an anal-retentive degree, yet he's not in the austerity thread any longer because I asked him to point to where I said something he claimed I said, but very clearly did not. He knows full well what racist tripe GBAStar and spokker are getting up to, but still seeks to find some angle to serve as the forum irritant. That is his goal; not being correct.

He has no sense of responsibility, no willingness to engage in honest discussion. He exists merely to serve as an irritant, as a troll. He doesn't actually have *any* interest in being correct in his arguments - his endgame is for you to get endlessly frustrated with him.

How RvB and dohdough got suspended for upwards of a month is beyond me. Okay, honestly, dohdough doesn't shock me, but RvB, yeah. For them to be temp banned and Bob to not be is astonishing.

So just ignore him entirely, and he'll go slinking back to the "Dr. Thunder: Great Drink or Greatest Drink?" forums.
 
[quote name='camoor']
dv802074.jpg


Thats Nairobi, Kenya.

Does Africa have problems? Yes of course. Is it nothing but mud huts and crazy dictators in palaces? Hell no, and it's ignorant and racist to assume that.[/QUOTE]

Downtown North Korea looks way better than that. Call me when Kenya gets a giant unfinished hotel. When the Kenyan population graduates from subsistence farming they can start worrying about putting some accessible toilet stalls in. Great, Kenya has a downtown. So does San Bernardino, CA and it's almost in as bad of shape. That picture doesn't tell you much about Kenya when you realize that 79% of the population lives in rural regions. Half the population lives in poverty, and not the pussy American definition of poverty. I mean real fucking poverty.

These countries have rampant public corruption that would make the GOP and Democrats blush, and Africa's struggles can hardly be blamed on the British, Dutch, French, et al. anymore. So yeah, MUD HUTS. Saying this is about as offensive as saying Americans live in McMansions in the suburbs.

Many Kenyans live in compounds of thatched mud huts or
timber houses, surrounded by banana trees, plots of maize
and coffee trees. Others move with their cattle in search of
pasture. Some work in the tourism industry, in hotels and the
famous wildlife parks.
Click to expand...

I'll say it proudly from the rooftops, KENYANS LIVE IN MUD HUTS. Therefore, UN treaties that do nothing and accomplish nothing should be none of their concern. Okay, Kenya isn't the Congo, but beating Congo isn't much to be proud of.

Oh, and 2009 stats since we all care so much about Kenya: http://www.knbs.or.ke/Census Results/KNBS Brochure.pdf
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Spokker']Downtown North Korea looks way better than that. Call me when Kenya gets a giant unfinished hotel. When the Kenyan population graduates from subsistence farming they can start worrying about putting some accessible toilet stalls in. Great, Kenya has a downtown. So does San Bernardino, CA and it's almost in as bad of shape. That picture doesn't tell you much about Kenya when you realize that 79% of the population lives in rural regions. Half the population lives in poverty, and not the pussy American definition of poverty. I mean real fucking poverty.

These countries have rampant public corruption that would make the GOP and Democrats blush, and Africa's struggles can hardly be blamed on the British, Dutch, French, et al. anymore. So yeah, MUD HUTS. Saying this is about as offensive as saying Americans live in McMansions in the suburbs.



I'll say it proudly from the rooftops, KENYANS LIVE IN MUD HUTS. Therefore, UN treaties that do nothing and accomplish nothing should be none of their concern. Okay, Kenya isn't the Congo, but beating Congo isn't much to be proud of.

Oh, and 2009 stats since we all care so much about Kenya: http://www.knbs.or.ke/Census Results/KNBS Brochure.pdf[/QUOTE]

Downtown NK? "giant unfinished hotel"? You serious?

As for the rest - yeah Africa has problems. As you note, California has problems too. That doesn't mean everyone lives in a mud hut in Africa and California. Having these regulations for handicapped entrepreneurs visiting the Nairobi Hilton or the San Bernardino Motel 6 isn't a bad idea - in fact it's a very progressive and forward-thinking idea.

The rural areas have to get cleaned up but nothing is going to be the worse for having these regulations in place for the urbanized parts of Africa.

So now that you've wiki'd Nairobi and cherry-picked a few tidbits of information to backup your previous post, you've erased any notion of naive childlike ignorance and proceeded to full-blown racism. When you suggest that so many Africans live in mud huts that they can't benefit from forward-thinking legislation that we put forth in the US - that's racist.
 
[quote name='camoor']Downtown NK? "giant unfinished hotel"? You serious?

As for the rest - yeah Africa has problems. As you note, California has problems too. That doesn't mean everyone lives in a mud hut in Africa and California. Having these regulations for handicapped entrepreneurs visiting the Nairobi Hilton or the San Bernardino Motel 6 isn't a bad idea - in fact it's a very progressive and forward-thinking idea.

The rural areas have to get cleaned up but nothing is going to be the worse for having these regulations in place for the urbanized parts of Africa.

So now that you've wiki'd Nairobi and cherry-picked a few tidbits of information to backup your previous post, you've erased any notion of naive childlike ignorance and proceeded to full-blown racism. When you suggest that so many Africans live in mud huts that they can't benefit from forward-thinking legislation that we put forth in the US - that's racist.[/QUOTE]


Where were these forward thinking ideas when the U.S. industrialized and modernized? Would we be the power that we are today had we had workplace standards and building codes? Someone could certainly make the point that it would have been too expensive and inhibiting at the time to do so; and it most certainly would have "handicapped" our growth to the point where we may not be where we are today.

Similarly how do you think these struggling nations are going to afford this? Are we going to give more aid? Is the UN going to give the aid?

Hell why stop at trying to force the ADA down their throat. Why not make sure they have the same building code laws and enforcement. Sprinklers, fire extinguishers, exit signs, waste disposal, etc; are they not just as important as handrails and ramps?

Let's pressure these countries to spend more money that they don't have so "they can behave more like Americans".
 
Again , where are you guys getting the impression that we tried to "Force ADA down their throats" , your Butts?
Take China for example , they were on board when Bush Sr was in office. Africa ? Jr's Administration.
We had to Rescue them from ourselves?
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Where were these forward thinking ideas when the U.S. industrialized and modernized? Would we be the power that we are today had we had workplace standards and building codes? Someone could certainly make the point that it would have been too expensive and inhibiting at the time to do so; and it most certainly would have "handicapped" our growth to the point where we may not be where we are today.

Similarly how do you think these struggling nations are going to afford this? Are we going to give more aid? Is the UN going to give the aid?

Hell why stop at trying to force the ADA down their throat. Why not make sure they have the same building code laws and enforcement. Sprinklers, fire extinguishers, exit signs, waste disposal, etc; are they not just as important as handrails and ramps?

Let's pressure these countries to spend more money that they don't have so "they can behave more like Americans".[/QUOTE]
It's fucks like you with that ass-backward thinking of 'it'll impede business' that impeded progress on workers' rights and safety during those periods. You know where those dissenters were? Being silenced because big business monopolies didn't want to schill out the extra bucks, or in cases like the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, keeping exits necessary for escaping open in fire to maintain worker efficiency. http://www.csun.edu/~ghy7463/mw2.html fuck your revisionist history, it was an economic model catered to business and the rich that got us in this mess, not fucking building codes and regulations for even the most basic worker safety.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Where were these forward thinking ideas when the U.S. industrialized and modernized? Would we be the power that we are today had we had workplace standards and building codes? Someone could certainly make the point that it would have been too expensive and inhibiting at the time to do so; and it most certainly would have "handicapped" our growth to the point where we may not be where we are today.

Similarly how do you think these struggling nations are going to afford this? Are we going to give more aid? Is the UN going to give the aid?

Hell why stop at trying to force the ADA down their throat. Why not make sure they have the same building code laws and enforcement. Sprinklers, fire extinguishers, exit signs, waste disposal, etc; are they not just as important as handrails and ramps?

Let's pressure these countries to spend more money that they don't have so "they can behave more like Americans".[/QUOTE]

Seems like noone is buying the shit you're peddling Santorum - I mean GBAStar.

Well - at least I'm glad you now understand that Africa has cities and skyscrapers where these regulations would apply, I'm taking that as a minor win for myself. Moving on...

I'm not sure why conditions at the foundation of America should be used as a template of how our policy should be written today. I mean, they had slavery back then, but obviously we've progressed to a point where we understand that is wrong. I would have thought that treating the physically handicapped with human dignity would be understood as the right thing to do, another moral slam dunk if you will. Apparently not with GBAStar and the Republicans.

Use some common sense. You really think that as a result of this legislation, regulators are going to go out and find the poorest slum in Kenya and start fining people left and right? Really? This is to insure that the companies operating in the middle and upper class areas of countries such as Kenya don't screw over handicapped people because they have a loophole. If you want to be selfish, it's so one day someone you or I know who happens to be disabled can visit Africa and stay at the Hilton, and these big, deep-pocketed multi-national corporations can't cut corners and deny someone service just because they are in a wheelchair.

There is nothing to afford, if anything it the governments will make money in fines until the city businesses clean up their act.
 
[quote name='RealDeals']It's fucks like you with that ass-backward thinking of 'it'll impede business' that impeded progress on workers' rights and safety during those periods. You know where those dissenters were? Being silenced because big business monopolies didn't want to schill out the extra bucks, or in cases like the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, keeping exits necessary for escaping open in fire to maintain worker efficiency. http://www.csun.edu/~ghy7463/mw2.html fuck your revisionist history, it was an economic model catered to business and the rich that got us in this mess, not fucking building codes and regulations for even the most basic worker safety.[/QUOTE]

But two managers were blocking the way. Ignore the alarm, they ordered. It was just a test. Back to work.
...
In all, 112 workers were killed in a blaze last month that has exposed a glaring disconnect among global clothing brands, the monitoring system used to protect workers and the factories actually filling the orders. After the fire, Walmart, Sears and other retailers made the same startling admission: They say they did not know that Tazreen Fashions was making their clothing.

But who, then, is ultimately responsible when things go so wrong?
Click to expand...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/w...-gap-in-supply-chain.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

It still happens. The new game for companies like Walmart is to have enough plausible deniability for their PR teams and bought-and-paid-for politicians to work with. 112 dead - one hundred and twelve human lives snuffed out - a tragedy that will never register as more then a blip on corporate run news networks.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Leave Bob alone. He's deeply lacking in any sense of personal responsibility to own up to when he's wrong or when he misrepresents someone else's words.

He's over here playing semantics to an anal-retentive degree, yet he's not in the austerity thread any longer because I asked him to point to where I said something he claimed I said, but very clearly did not. He knows full well what racist tripe GBAStar and spokker are getting up to, but still seeks to find some angle to serve as the forum irritant. That is his goal; not being correct.

He has no sense of responsibility, no willingness to engage in honest discussion. He exists merely to serve as an irritant, as a troll. He doesn't actually have *any* interest in being correct in his arguments - his endgame is for you to get endlessly frustrated with him.

How RvB and dohdough got suspended for upwards of a month is beyond me. Okay, honestly, dohdough doesn't shock me, but RvB, yeah. For them to be temp banned and Bob to not be is astonishing.

So just ignore him entirely, and he'll go slinking back to the "Dr. Thunder: Great Drink or Greatest Drink?" forums.[/QUOTE]

It was only a 2 week suspension so I'm back now. I'm not entirely sure what happened was worth even a 2 week suspension but still it's been made clear that certain members of this forum are immediately running to mods when their feelings are hurt so I'll just refrain from interacting with said member.

The funny thing is that this person will dole out personal insults on their own with absolutely no recourse. I could go down the road of "well, he better watch what he posts now" and give him the same tattletale treatment but I'm not going to stoop to that level. At the end of the day, this is an internet forum and people making insults toward me, or others, doesn't really register as anything more than an annoyance.
 
[quote name='camoor']http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/07/w...-gap-in-supply-chain.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

It still happens. The new game for companies like Walmart is to have enough plausible deniability for their PR teams and bought-and-paid-for politicians to work with. 112 dead - one hundred and twelve human lives snuffed out - a tragedy that will never register as more then a blip on corporate run news networks.[/QUOTE]

Well, at least they'll have wheelchair ramps and the paper towel dispensers will be 54" off the ground.
 
[quote name='camoor']
So now that you've wiki'd Nairobi and cherry-picked a few tidbits of information to backup your previous post, you've erased any notion of naive childlike ignorance and proceeded to full-blown racism. When you suggest that so many Africans live in mud huts that they can't benefit from forward-thinking legislation that we put forth in the US - that's racist.[/QUOTE]

I cherry picked nothing. I have shown you hard facts that over 70% of Kenya's population lives in rural areas and that 50% of the population lives in poverty. Your ignorance of Kenya causes you to post a picture of a downtown area that does not represent the way the majority of Kenyans live. You would know that even the Wikipedia article on Kenya touches on this fact had you visited the page to pretend you know anything about Africa.

Although Kenya is the biggest and most advanced economy in east and central Africa and a minority of the urban population often leaves a misleading impression of affluence, Kenya is still a poor developing country with a Human Development Index (HDI) of 0.509, putting the country at position 143 out of 185 – one of the lowest in the world and half of Kenyans live in absolute poverty. The important agricultural sector is one of the least developed and largely inefficient, employing 75 percent of the workforce compared to less than 3 percent in the food secure developed countries.
Click to expand...

You got mislead. I wonder what hurts Kenya more, my "racism" against Kenyans or the country's government overreach in agriculture and public sector corruption.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Spokker']
Although Kenya is the biggest and most advanced economy in east and central Africa and a minority of the urban population often leaves a misleading impression of affluence, Kenya is still a poor developing country with a Human Development Index (HDI) of 0.509, putting the country at position 143 out of 185 – one of the lowest in the world and half of Kenyans live in absolute poverty. The important agricultural sector is one of the least developed and largely inefficient, employing 75 percent of the workforce compared to less than 3 percent in the food secure developed countries.
Click to expand...
[/QUOTE]

Well, at least they'll have wheelchair ramps and the paper towel dispensers will be 54" off the ground.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Leave Bob alone. He's deeply lacking in any sense of personal responsibility to own up to when he's wrong or when he misrepresents someone else's words.

He's over here playing semantics to an anal-retentive degree, yet he's not in the austerity thread any longer because I asked him to point to where I said something he claimed I said, but very clearly did not. He knows full well what racist tripe GBAStar and spokker are getting up to, but still seeks to find some angle to serve as the forum irritant. That is his goal; not being correct.

He has no sense of responsibility, no willingness to engage in honest discussion. He exists merely to serve as an irritant, as a troll. He doesn't actually have *any* interest in being correct in his arguments - his endgame is for you to get endlessly frustrated with him.

How RvB and dohdough got suspended for upwards of a month is beyond me. Okay, honestly, dohdough doesn't shock me, but RvB, yeah. For them to be temp banned and Bob to not be is astonishing.

So just ignore him entirely, and he'll go slinking back to the "Dr. Thunder: Great Drink or Greatest Drink?" forums.[/QUOTE]
I just don't understand that. I'm sure doh annoyed some people, but they're the people here who should be ignored anyway. It didn't bother me in the least bit that he ranted, the knuckle draggers here he was ranting against deserve it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top