Walmart Cop Shoots and Kills Mother of Two for Shoplifting - In Front of Kids

[quote name='Clak']Not to mention, it's a great way to make children trust the police, ya know. I'm sure those kids will grow up believing that the police are all noble and shit, yeah.

What exactly was accomplished again?[/QUOTE]

Wait so it was a police officer that shot that lady? For the first 90 or so posts I thought it was just a walmart security officer?

Maybe the little kids will grow up wondering why mommy's friends were such great people and why they let her bleed out in car instead of taking her to the hospital
 
[quote name='UncleBob']It's funny how some folks keep ignoring the fact that these folks turned their vehichle into a deadly weapon and assulted a uniformed officer with it. They keep falling back on "Don't shoot someone just for shoplifting!" - which is reasonable. At the point the officer feared for his life (if the basic story we're getting from this is true) because the driver of the vehicle took hostile action against him, the fact that the individual was shoplifting is only tangently related to the situation. She was shot because they assulted an officer with a deadly weapon.

I swear, some folks here have reality on their ignore list.[/QUOTE]

Yeah if there is a self-defense argument made it'll probably hinge on the car.
 
[quote name='razrvamp']Okay you bleeding heart liberals. We are taught from a young age you break the law you face whatever consequences for your actions.[/QUOTE]

Methinks you don't understand the law very well.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Wait so it was a police officer that shot that lady? For the first 90 or so posts I thought it was just a walmart security officer?[/QUOTE]

It was an off-duty cop who was moonlighting as a Walmart security officer.

[quote name='GBAstar']Maybe the little kids will grow up wondering why mommy's friends were such great people and why they let her bleed out in car instead of taking her to the hospital[/QUOTE]

That crosses a line. Those kids were traumatized and victimized - and I find your gloating to be very ugly and mean-spirited.

The women did not show good judgement to be sure, but they did try to save their friend once they realized the gravity of the situation:

Despite the shooting, the women fled but eventually they stopped at The Worthington at the Beltway apartments in the 1300 block of Greens Parkway.
Paramedics from the Houston Fire Department arrived to try and save Frey, but she was pronounced dead at the scene.
Click to expand...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ries-escape-young-children.html#ixzz2EtP77FKd
 
[quote name='camoor']It was an off-duty cop who was moonlighting as a Walmart security officer.



That crosses a line. Those kids were traumatized and victimized - and I find your gloating to be very ugly and mean-spirited.

The women did not show good judgement to be sure, but they did try to save their friend once they realized the gravity of the situation:



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ries-escape-young-children.html#ixzz2EtP77FKd[/QUOTE]

Again the kids in the car weren't the kids of the deceased. You made that mistake when you created the thread... why are you making it again?

And how exactly did the girls try and save their friend?
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Again the kids in the car weren't the kids of the deceased. You made that mistake when you created the thread... why are you making it again?

And how exactly did the girls try and save their friend?[/QUOTE]

I would think that seeing someone shot and bleed out in front of you would be sufficient to traumatize you, regardless of whether you're related to that person or not. Camoor never said in the post you quoted that the traumatized kids in the car were hers.

Well, you see, a while back they took a first aid class and actually packed the car with a first aid kit or... I dunno, it's kind of implied in that the paramedics arrived that someone had to have called them. fucking christ, did you even read the post you were replying to or did you just give it a cursory glance and assume what was said?
 
[quote name='dohdough']There are a few of us poor or formerly poor folks here, but the only police box I can think of is in Downtown Crossing?[/QUOTE]

South Bay center between Stoppies and Old Navy. They've got a patrol car in the lot 24/7 too. In regards to your other post, I believe (but possibly erroneously) that the landlord of that particular plaza pays for this service.

[quote name='dohdough']Cops are public servants and private companies should not be able to use public resources like that in an unofficial capacity for official matters.

I'm not talking about an off-duty officer in civvies happening upon a crime, but someone in the employ of a private company unofficially acting in an official manner. It's almost like hiring a sitting congressman as a part time lobbyist and we haven't even begun to talk about wally world, once again, externalizing labor costs.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

Campbell should not have been wearing his county uniform if he was on Wal-Mart's (or a subcontracted security firm's) clock. That's a no-no. If he had been responding to a call while on-duty for the county this wouldn't be an issue.

Any LP training course worth it's salt is going to tell you to avoid violence unless absolutely necessary and only use it in self defense NOT to subdue a suspect. Furthermore, decent LP training is also going to tell you that if a perp leaves the store you do NOT follow them - there could be literally anything waiting for you in the parking lot. This is just common sense in LP and most (though clearly not all) chains follow rules like these.

The situation could have and should have come to an end when she was first spotted in the store. It could have and should have come to an end when she was confronted at the door. Wal-Mart should have had reasonable LP policy in place and Campbell never should have even followed the shoplifter into the parking lot.

Clearly someone at Wal-Mart (either store, regional or corporate level) has dropped the ball by not making this clear. My guess is it's at the corporate level given we're seeing this event in Houston, Bob's linked story to the manager confronting a suspect in Arizona, as well as the Black Friday death in Georgia. This is systematic.
 
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[quote name='GBAstar']Again the kids in the car weren't the kids of the deceased. You made that mistake when you created the thread... why are you making it again?

And how exactly did the girls try and save their friend?[/QUOTE]

The kids don't need to be her kids to be traumatized by seeing a police officer shoot and kill a woman point blank in the neck and then see her bleed out all the way home.

And someone obviously called the paramedics to the apartment.

Show some common sense.
 
[quote name='cochesecochese']Cambell should not have been wearing his county uniform if he was on Wal-Mart's (or a subcontracted security firm's) clock. That's a no-no.[/QUOTE]

This isn't entierly correct - it varies. I don't know if there are any individual state-wide laws that restrict or allow this specifically - as far as I know, it it up to the individual organization's rules (Local City or County, typically as allowed by the Chief of Police or County Sheriff) regarding the matter.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Clearly that is what happened.[/QUOTE]
Well, he chased her into the parking lot and instead of letting her drive away got in front of the car and shot her because she was "going to run him over".
Both (killed and losing your hand) are terrible but being dead seems worse for the family....note the "shot in the neck" picture isn't her but for you guys to come out here and even consider what happened to be remotely reasonable clearly have some kind of sensitivity towards humanity. Shooting someone in the neck for theft is NOT okay nor is cutting off their hand (and foot). It's easy to dehumanize shit when all you read are words and haven't seen the actual brutality of these things. US media keeps you nice and comfy and tries to baby you from the real world. These types of things are wrong and NO ONE should think otherwise.

You may be sarcastic "Clearly that's what happened" but that's the gist of what really DID happen if the security guard gets away with this.



Mother%20shot%20in%20neck%20and%20mouth.jpg




chopped-hands.jpg
 
[quote name='cochesecochese']South Bay center between Stoppies and Old Navy. They've got a patrol car in the lot 24/7 too. In regards to your other post, I believe (but possibly erroneously) that the landlord of that particular plaza pays for this service.[/quote]
Never realized there was one there. I just figured they had cops patrolling it constantly. Guess I won't be giving my friend driving lessons there...haha.

Exactly.

Campbell should not have been wearing his county uniform if he was on Wal-Mart's (or a subcontracted security firm's) clock. That's a no-no. If he had been responding to a call while on-duty for the county this wouldn't be an issue.

Any LP training course worth it's salt is going to tell you to avoid violence unless absolutely necessary and only use it in self defense NOT to subdue a suspect. Furthermore, decent LP training is also going to tell you that if a perp leaves the store you do NOT follow them - there could be literally anything waiting for you in the parking lot. This is just common sense in LP and most (though clearly not all) chains follow rules like these.

The situation could have and should have come to an end when she was first spotted in the store. It could have and should have come to an end when she was confronted at the door. Wal-Mart should have had reasonable LP policy in place and Campbell never should have even followed the shoplifter into the parking lot.

Clearly someone at Wal-Mart (either store, regional or corporate level) has dropped the ball by not making this clear. My guess is it's at the corporate level given we're seeing this event in Houston, Bob's linked story to the manager confronting a suspect in Arizona, as well as the Black Friday death in Georgia. This is systematic.
Click to expand...
I've worked a few jobs that deal with large sums of cash and retail and it's SOP in training that you comply if they rob you cause it's not worth your life(or lawsuit for them) and don't follow them any further than right outside the door.

But you're absolutely right that there's something going on where those protocols are not being followed.
 
[quote name='Blaster man']Wow I thought Iran's fundamentalist government was bad. They cut off your hand. Apparently in the US you get the death penalty for petty theft.[/QUOTE]
Good point actually. We often think punishments in some of those countries are severe, but there are ignorant dumbasses here who are actually advocating for much harsher punishment, despite them not realizing it (they're ignorant dumbasses after all).
 
[quote name='Clak']Good point actually. We often think punishments in some of those countries are severe, but there are ignorant dumbasses here who are actually advocating for much harsher punishment, despite them not realizing it (they're ignorant dumbasses after all).[/QUOTE]

The truth is, you don't chase someone into a parking lot then stand in front of the car without some kind of idea that you're going to do something. So this wasn't the "death penalty" but it's definitely killing someone for theft. This wasn't self defense. She drove off and died by her apartment complex. If she drove off how the hell was this self defense? He had time to open his holster, pull out his gun, shoot her, AND avoid being hit by the car all before she drove away? If you're in your car and about to drive...you can drive away pretty quickly. My guess is, he jumped in front of her car, pulled his gun out, pointed it at her head, and she got scared shitless, put the car into drive, he stepped out of the way, waited for her window to be next to him and shot in at her "in self defense". But I'd REALLY like to see the video of this incident. I simply don't see how this was anything but intentional killing for theft.

So let me say it again, IT IS NOT OKAY TO SHOOT SOMEONE FOR THEFT.
 
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[quote name='perdition(troy']I guess it's a good thing no one got shot for stealing then.[/QUOTE]

Someone got shot because a Walmart policeman escalated a pickpocketing incident into a shooting death.
 
[quote name='camoor']Someone got shot because a Walmart policeman escalated a pickpocketing incident into a shooting death.[/QUOTE]

some people would think that the group of thieves that trespassed, stole, assaulted the officer fled on foot, got in to a car and then drove off while the officer was between the car and the door escalated the situation...

...but that's just some people
 
[quote name='GBAstar']some people would think that the group of thieves that trespassed, stole, assaulted the officer fled on foot,[/QUOTE]

It should have ended here

[quote name='GBAstar']got in to a car and then drove off while the officer was between the car and the door escalated the situation...

...but that's just some people[/QUOTE]

This is the problem. I don't expect dumb criminals to follow the law, and the world is full of dumb criminals. However it's completely reckless to allow shop cops to unnecessarily put themselves directly in harms way and threaten lethal force over a petty crime such as shoplifting. Not only can the cop or perpetrator end up dead, it also endangers innocent bystanders who could be hit by a stray bullet or fleeing car.

There will be more dumb criminals determined to flee the scene. Something must be done so that future Walmart cops think twice before going Punisher on shoplifters. There are better ways to do LP then lethal parking lot showdowns.
 
[quote name='camoor']It should have ended here



This is the problem. I don't expect dumb criminals to follow the law, and the world is full of dumb criminals. However it's completely reckless to allow shop cops to unnecessarily put themselves directly in harms way and threaten lethal force over a petty crime such as shoplifting. Not only can the cop or perpetrator end up dead, it also endangers innocent bystanders who could be hit by a stray bullet or fleeing car.

There will be more dumb criminals determined to flee the scene. Something must be done so that future Walmart cops think twice before going Punisher on shoplifters. There are better ways to do LP then lethal parking lot showdowns.[/QUOTE]

So a 26 year veteran on the sheriff's office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the next time you're in a situation where you're requested to do something by a police officer you throw your fannie pack at them and run off.

My money says they chase you. There isn't an officer in the world that is not going to follow a suspect on foot after they've been assaulted; even if it is the bottom tier assault like being spit on, bumped, kicked, or hit with a purse.

It's assault on an officer and last I checked that was um.... pretty major and serious.

And incase you didn't comprehend what was written earlier the way this particular county functions is that despite being on Walmart's payroll the officer is still a police officer and allowed to act in such capacity.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']So a 26 year veteran on the sheriff's office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the next time you're in a situation where you're requested to do something by a police officer you throw your fannie pack at them and run off.

My money says they chase you. There isn't an officer in the world that is not going to follow a suspect on foot after they've been assaulted; even if it is the bottom tier assault like being spit on, bumped, kicked, or hit with a purse.

It's assault on an officer and last I checked that was um.... pretty major and serious.

And incase you didn't comprehend what was written earlier the way this particular county functions is that despite being on Walmart's payroll the officer is still a police officer and allowed to act in such capacity.[/QUOTE]

And in Iran (see picture above) they cut off your right hand (and sometimes left foot) for theft. Chasing someone into a parking lot and shooting them instead of just using the images from the video to track them down isn't any better and is probably far worse. Just because it's legal doesn't mean it should be. It's legal in Singapore to cane people who overstay their tourist visa. That's the law therefore it must be right. Slavery used to be legal, therefore it must be right. Your simplistic view that the law = moral is completely wrong.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']When you track them down and they run again, then what?[/QUOTE]

Well, since you probably have their apartment covered they're not going to be able to drive out the door and run you over. So you probably just grab them and arrest them. Then hey, they get a fine or possibly go to jail for a week or two...oh but I guess something punishable by next to nothing is something that lethal force should be used in.:drool:
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']He did not chase her into the parking lot to shoot her. How blind to common sense are you that you assume he gave chase with intention to kill/shoot her?[/QUOTE]

Did he chase her? yes/no - yes
Did she get into her car? yes/no - yes
Did he shoot her? yes/no - yes

So his gun accidentally went off? Hey, how about you don't stand in front of the car of someone that stole a couple bucks worth of stuff at the Walmart? Why not just let her drive away? How stupid.
 
Are you that dull? What if they waited to catch her at home, and he went to arrest her, and she assaulted him with her car at home instead of in the parking lot (or a gun, or a knife, or a frying pan, or a pair of brass knuckles, or or or). She obviously has no respect for authority. I mean honestly, do you think everything is hunky dory in this world?

You seem to ignore the fact that she was stealing, assaulting an officer (twice) and he feared for his life. This isn't that hard of a concept to grasp, the victim isn't always innocent.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Are you that dull? What if they waited to catch her at home, and he went to arrest her, and she assaulted him with her car at home instead of in the parking lot. I mean honestly, do you think everything is hunky dory in this world?[/QUOTE]
Wow...so you can't see any possibility other than the police being hit by a car? There's absolutely no way for them to catch someone? You call me dull and insult me while you make these dumbass claims like they can't just go to her house in the middle of the night and arrest her while she's sleeping like they usually do in this type of thing. Hey man, they caught her and arrested her before without anyone being killed. This is petty theft with no weapons involved.

This is the kind of ridiculous behavior by law enforcement that gets by-standards hurt.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Ya, petty theft arrests usually happen in nightly raids. You clearly know how law enforcement works.[/QUOTE]
I'm fairly sure most warrants are executed why the person is asleep. It's very common. A warrant would be issued once they reviewed the evidence and go in and arrest her while asleep.

It happens all the time. I've heard of it and I'm not even in law enforcement. I'm assuming you're not since you're making the claim that it doesn't happen. Shit man, a google and all kinds of news reports of these come up.
http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/She...eep/-/8905354/16582742/-/133d391/-/index.html
 
[quote name='Blaster man']Wow...so you can't see any possibility other than the police being hit by a car? There's absolutely no way for them to catch someone? You call me dull and insult me while you make these dumbass claims like they can't just go to her house in the middle of the night and arrest her while she's sleeping like they usually do in this type of thing. Hey man, they caught her and arrested her before without anyone being killed. This is petty theft with no weapons involved.

This is the kind of ridiculous behavior by law enforcement that gets by-standards hurt.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure a vehicle can be used as a weapon.

And she was trespassing ever before she committed theft.


they can't just go to her house in the middle of the night and arrest her while she's sleeping like they usually do in this type of thing.

Yes because it is standard operating procedures to let thieves get away without pursuit so you can arrest them in the middle of the night... :roll:
 
[quote name='GBAstar']I'm pretty sure a vehicle can be used as a weapon.

And she was trespassing ever before she committed theft.


they can't just go to her house in the middle of the night and arrest her while she's sleeping like they usually do in this type of thing.

Yes because it is standard operating procedures to let thieves get away without pursuit so you can arrest them in the middle of the night... :roll:[/QUOTE]

It's completely standard operating procedure from most security guards to let the person take off once they're out of the store then have the police investigate and issue a warrant. Most security guards aren't cops and most theft is handled this way.:roll:
 
Hm... so we're going to have a police raid on an apartment building.

I wonder how much that would cost in taxpayer money.

I wonder how many lives that could put in danger.

This sounds promising, do tell more. What do you do if she's not home when you execute the warrant? Wait for her to show up? What if she is home and refuses to come out, what do you do? Keep knocking on her door, asking her nicely to come out?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']When you track them down and they run again, then what?[/QUOTE]
Wow, maybe you stop her next time? You guys are acting like the police don't stop 99.99999999999999999999% of people without using lethal force.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Hm... so we're going to have a police raid on an apartment building.

I wonder how much that would cost in taxpayer money.

I wonder how many lives that could put in danger.

This sounds promising, do tell more. What do you do if she's not home when you execute the warrant? Wait for her to show up? What if she is home and refuses to come out, what do you do? Keep knocking on her door, asking her nicely to come out?[/QUOTE]

I bet it's a hell of a lot cheaper to raid her building than to call out half the fucking force and countless others to investigate the shooting for hours.
 
True. Which is why it's a shame that they decided to use their car as a lethal weapon and attack the officer (assuming his side is true).
 
[quote name='UncleBob']True. Which is why it's a shame that they decided to use their car as a lethal weapon and attack the officer (assuming his side is true).[/QUOTE]
I want to see the video. I have a hard time believing that he was able to jump out of the way, unholster his gun, shoot his gun, and actually hit her as she was driving out. That's some real action movie/video game shit right there. Jumping, as your jumping in the air, you're opening your holster up. You manage to do that while still in the air. You pull out your gun and extend your arm fully. Then you take aim while you're still jumping out of the way AND the car is in motion (?) then you manage to actually hit her. Something sounds a bit odd. If true then fine but it's a bit outlandish.

Most likely he just pulled out his gun, pointed it at her, she got scared shitless and he shot her through the windshield when he saw her put the car into drive. Then he took one step to the right and she drove away. Later found dead.
 
[quote name='Blaster man']I want to see the video. I have a hard time believing that he was able to jump out of the way, unholster his gun, shoot his gun, and actually hit her as she was driving out. That's some real action movie/video game shit right there. Jumping, as your jumping in the air, you're opening your holster up. You manage to do that while still in the air. You pull out your gun and extend your arm fully. Then you take aim while you're still jumping out of the way AND the car is in motion (?) then you manage to actually hit her. Something sounds a bit odd. If true then fine but it's a bit outlandish.

Most likely he just pulled out his gun, pointed it at her, she got scared shitless and he shot her through the windshield when he saw her put the car into drive. Then he took one step to the right and she drove away. Later found dead.[/QUOTE]

If that's the case, then yes, the officer would likely have action taken against him.

I'm curious - there were at least two adult witnesses to this event - have they came out with a different version of events?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']If that's the case, then yes, the officer would likely have action taken against him.

I'm curious - there were at least two adult witnesses to this event - have they came out with a different version of events?[/QUOTE]

Who knows. I'm sure there's video evidence at the Walmart location anyway. I have no clue what REALLY happened. I'm making a guess so it could be completely wrong. I mean if she really did try to ram him with her car then fine. I just can't picture in my head how it possibly went down where he would actually be able to hit her in a moving car while he's jumping away...


 
Unless she stole over $250 worth of wally world crap, all of her offenses are misdemeanors up until she got into the car, which isn't a felony either. SOP dictates that the cop shouldn't have chased her any further than the sidewalk as an employee of wally world.

It's shoplifting and trespassing; not armed robbery. You guys have some serious hero complexes.
 
[quote name='dohdough']SOP dictates that the cop shouldn't have chased her any further than the sidewalk as an employee of wally world.[/QUOTE]

Walmart's official statement]We hire off duty officers to provide security to some of our stores. While we have policies in place for our associates to disengage from situations that might put them or others in harm's way said:
off-duty officers working at a WM store are authorized to act in accordance with their department's code of conduct.[/b]
Click to expand...

Seems like Walmart's SOP says he can chase her as far as he wants, so long as it is in line with the rules and regulation of his department.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Unless she stole over $250 worth of wally world crap, all of her offenses are misdemeanors up until she got into the car, which isn't a felony either. SOP dictates that the cop shouldn't have chased her any further than the sidewalk as an employee of wally world.

It's shoplifting and trespassing; not armed robbery. You guys have some serious hero complexes.[/QUOTE]
I think a alrge number of people in this country secretly dream of being Judge Dredd.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Seems like Walmart's SOP says he can chase her as far as he wants, so long as it is in line with the rules and regulation of his department.[/QUOTE]

That's just Wal-Mart trying to get out of any sort of liability of the situation. Also I doubt any sort of cctv camera they had in the parking will be much help to try and depict what happened. I think most of those cameras are pointed at the entrance anyway. =/
 
[quote name='GBAstar']So a 26 year veteran on the sheriff's office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt?

How about the next time you're in a situation where you're requested to do something by a police officer you throw your fannie pack at them and run off.

My money says they chase you. There isn't an officer in the world that is not going to follow a suspect on foot after they've been assaulted; even if it is the bottom tier assault like being spit on, bumped, kicked, or hit with a purse.

It's assault on an officer and last I checked that was um.... pretty major and serious.

And incase you didn't comprehend what was written earlier the way this particular county functions is that despite being on Walmart's payroll the officer is still a police officer and allowed to act in such capacity.[/QUOTE]

I'll do you a favor - let's put aside the uncomfortable fact that a uniformed police officer was taking direction from Walmart.

Is there a police officer in the world that can handle a shoplifting incident without planting himself directly in the path of a fleeing vehicle?
 
[quote name='camoor']I'll do you a favor - let's put aside the uncomfortable fact that a uniformed police officer was taking direction from Walmart.

Is there a police officer in the world that can handle a shoplifting incident without planting himself directly in the path of a fleeing vehicle?[/QUOTE]

Allow me to direct you towards this documentary about a San Francisco cop that takes any dirty job:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xjr2hnOHiM
 
[quote name='Blaster man']I'm fairly sure most warrants are executed why the person is asleep. It's very common. A warrant would be issued once they reviewed the evidence and go in and arrest her while asleep.

It happens all the time. I've heard of it and I'm not even in law enforcement. I'm assuming you're not since you're making the claim that it doesn't happen. Shit man, a google and all kinds of news reports of these come up.
http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/She...eep/-/8905354/16582742/-/133d391/-/index.html[/QUOTE]

We have a winner! Yes... let's do as you suggest!

http://bangordailynews.com/2012/12/...ess-go-to-home-of-maine-militia-head-instead/
 
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