I bought $20 worth of codes...thankfully I was stupid and didn't check the seller ratings, so I bought from a scumbag. She didn't send the codes so I just opened a case to get a full refund. I'm all for getting discounted codes (I figure they're from promotions or unwanted gifts) but not if they're stolen.
WARNING: Xbox Live Points Exploit
- Thread starter vader1671
- Start date
[quote name='pitfallharry219']I didn't buy any of the points, but I wouldn't be worried about getting banned or having anything taken from your account. A lot of people here still have free Gold memberships through March 2013 (which was the max length from the time of the promo) from the Netflix promo last year.[/QUOTE]
Did anyone get banned from that? I would think that's similar to this situation. Same with the free Fable 2 download awhile back.
Did anyone get banned from that? I would think that's similar to this situation. Same with the free Fable 2 download awhile back.
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This did not use a code generator. People were sent emails with unique URLs to get their redemption code. They figured out how to manipulate the URL and get codes that did not belong to them.
In the Netflix case a website was setup with X amount of codes and it was supposed to be the first X people to get it. They said one per person but it was on the honor system and limited by email address, although it wasn't secured properly.
The free Fable 2 download was a mistake that someone at Microsoft made. They accidentally made the first, free part of the episodic version of the game download the full GoD version.
The Fable thing was a mistake that people took advantage of. The Netflix thing is sort of like eating all of the free samples at the supermarket. You were supposed to take one and it was a dick move to those who came after you, but it never belonged to them. With this promo it's like someone went to pick up a carry-out pizza and took all of the other pizzas in the shop as well, including other people's orders.
In the Netflix case a website was setup with X amount of codes and it was supposed to be the first X people to get it. They said one per person but it was on the honor system and limited by email address, although it wasn't secured properly.
The free Fable 2 download was a mistake that someone at Microsoft made. They accidentally made the first, free part of the episodic version of the game download the full GoD version.
The Fable thing was a mistake that people took advantage of. The Netflix thing is sort of like eating all of the free samples at the supermarket. You were supposed to take one and it was a dick move to those who came after you, but it never belonged to them. With this promo it's like someone went to pick up a carry-out pizza and took all of the other pizzas in the shop as well, including other people's orders.
RedRingOfDeath
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I dont mean to criticize, but I really dont understand how people would just assume that some people would just have hundreds of 160MSP codes (160 of all numbers...) lying around to firesale at over half off. I can only assume that a lack of common sense (or greed) causes people to go for these types of deals where the user is obviously shady, and the deal is even more shady.
I really dont understand how anyone could think that kind of deal where you are paying less than 50% of the MSP retail value is legit. Alarms should go off immediately when the user is new. If they are not new, then if the codes are for an odd quantity like 160MSP should trigger some thought (the exact same amount Microsoft was giving out in promotions), and if not that, the fact that the user seemingly has hundreds to sell should cast further suspicion...
I hope no one gets their account banned...but in my mind it was kind of obvious that the codes were not legit. I didnt buy any because I knew something like this would happen. Of course Microsoft is going to find out and throw a fit. Best of luck to everyone that redeemed those codes in bulk.
I really dont understand how anyone could think that kind of deal where you are paying less than 50% of the MSP retail value is legit. Alarms should go off immediately when the user is new. If they are not new, then if the codes are for an odd quantity like 160MSP should trigger some thought (the exact same amount Microsoft was giving out in promotions), and if not that, the fact that the user seemingly has hundreds to sell should cast further suspicion...
I hope no one gets their account banned...but in my mind it was kind of obvious that the codes were not legit. I didnt buy any because I knew something like this would happen. Of course Microsoft is going to find out and throw a fit. Best of luck to everyone that redeemed those codes in bulk.
[quote name='topplehat']Did anyone get banned from that? I would think that's similar to this situation. Same with the free Fable 2 download awhile back.[/QUOTE]
I used that to get the max 3 years for myself and my two brothers. We're all still ok. The bonus on top of that? Albeit not much, but every month I'm getting 10 XBOX Live Rewards points because it counts as redeeming a 1 month live card.
I used that to get the max 3 years for myself and my two brothers. We're all still ok. The bonus on top of that? Albeit not much, but every month I'm getting 10 XBOX Live Rewards points because it counts as redeeming a 1 month live card.
[quote name='RedRingOfDeath']I dont mean to criticize, but I really dont understand how people would just assume that some people would just have hundreds of 160MSP codes (160 of all numbers...) lying around to firesale at over half off. I can only assume that a lack of common sense (or greed) causes people to go for these types of deals where the user is obviously shady, and the deal is even more shady.
I really dont understand how anyone could think that kind of deal where you are paying less than 50% of the MSP retail value is legit. Alarms should go off immediately when the user is new. If they are not new, then if the codes are for an odd quantity like 160MSP should trigger some thought (the exact same amount Microsoft was giving out in promotions), and if not that, the fact that the user seemingly has hundreds to sell should cast further suspicion...
I hope no one gets their account banned...but in my mind it was kind of obvious that the codes were not legit. I didnt buy any because I knew something like this would happen. Of course Microsoft is going to find out and throw a fit. Best of luck to everyone that redeemed those codes in bulk.[/QUOTE]
In the original thread in the deals forum someone said something along the lines of "I don't care where the codes are from just as long as I get a deal
." A lot of people understood this probably wasn't legit, they just don't care or consider there might be consequences.
I really dont understand how anyone could think that kind of deal where you are paying less than 50% of the MSP retail value is legit. Alarms should go off immediately when the user is new. If they are not new, then if the codes are for an odd quantity like 160MSP should trigger some thought (the exact same amount Microsoft was giving out in promotions), and if not that, the fact that the user seemingly has hundreds to sell should cast further suspicion...
I hope no one gets their account banned...but in my mind it was kind of obvious that the codes were not legit. I didnt buy any because I knew something like this would happen. Of course Microsoft is going to find out and throw a fit. Best of luck to everyone that redeemed those codes in bulk.[/QUOTE]
In the original thread in the deals forum someone said something along the lines of "I don't care where the codes are from just as long as I get a deal
." A lot of people understood this probably wasn't legit, they just don't care or consider there might be consequences.[quote name='RedRingOfDeath']I dont mean to criticize, but I really dont understand how people would just assume that some people would just have hundreds of 160MSP codes (160 of all numbers...) lying around to firesale at over half off. I can only assume that a lack of common sense (or greed) causes people to go for these types of deals where the user is obviously shady, and the deal is even more shady.
I really dont understand how anyone could think that kind of deal where you are paying less than 50% of the MSP retail value is legit. Alarms should go off immediately when the user is new. If they are not new, then if the codes are for an odd quantity like 160MSP should trigger some thought (the exact same amount Microsoft was giving out in promotions), and if not that, the fact that the user seemingly has hundreds to sell should cast further suspicion...
I hope no one gets their account banned...but in my mind it was kind of obvious that the codes were not legit. I didnt buy any because I knew something like this would happen. Of course Microsoft is going to find out and throw a fit. Best of luck to everyone that redeemed those codes in bulk.[/QUOTE]
I can see your side, but this is CHEAP Ass Gamer, so people are always looking for deals. I have bought many things on eBay that were significantly cheaper than they should have been. It doesn't mean they were stolen, so I don't buy this line of logic that "well it was so much cheaper it was obviously stolen".
I really dont understand how anyone could think that kind of deal where you are paying less than 50% of the MSP retail value is legit. Alarms should go off immediately when the user is new. If they are not new, then if the codes are for an odd quantity like 160MSP should trigger some thought (the exact same amount Microsoft was giving out in promotions), and if not that, the fact that the user seemingly has hundreds to sell should cast further suspicion...
I hope no one gets their account banned...but in my mind it was kind of obvious that the codes were not legit. I didnt buy any because I knew something like this would happen. Of course Microsoft is going to find out and throw a fit. Best of luck to everyone that redeemed those codes in bulk.[/QUOTE]
I can see your side, but this is CHEAP Ass Gamer, so people are always looking for deals. I have bought many things on eBay that were significantly cheaper than they should have been. It doesn't mean they were stolen, so I don't buy this line of logic that "well it was so much cheaper it was obviously stolen".
confoosious
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[quote name='CaptainJoel']
They probably could argue that the points were stolen property, but what would that get them? [/QUOTE]
Because stolen goods must be returned to the owner regardless of whether the buyer/recipient knew they were stolen. So if they argued as such, they can just reclaim the points out of your account.
I doubt microsoft would bother but they could.
They probably could argue that the points were stolen property, but what would that get them? [/QUOTE]
Because stolen goods must be returned to the owner regardless of whether the buyer/recipient knew they were stolen. So if they argued as such, they can just reclaim the points out of your account.
I doubt microsoft would bother but they could.
shrike4242
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[quote name='topplehat']I can see your side, but this is CHEAP Ass Gamer, so people are always looking for deals. I have bought many things on eBay that were significantly cheaper than they should have been. It doesn't mean they were stolen, so I don't buy this line of logic that "well it was so much cheaper it was obviously stolen".[/QUOTE]There's an obvious line on XBLM points that when you cross that line on their cost, it's obvious there's something odd going on. And not everyone plans to sell their items at a loss.
Anyone that didn't think these points were stolen/illegally obtained was fooling themselves and they chose not to care where they came from.
Anyone that didn't think these points were stolen/illegally obtained was fooling themselves and they chose not to care where they came from.
uglyteradon
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[quote name='Spanky']I'm glad I never bit on this. Only discounted points I ever purchased were 1600 point cards from Circuit City back when they were shutting down. I must have purchased 10 cards for myself not for profit.[/QUOTE]
I remember purchasing about four cards from Target when those coupons were floating around, that was my first lesson in fake coupons (I had acquired them here). I saved so much money that I gave one of them to a friend.
I remember purchasing about four cards from Target when those coupons were floating around, that was my first lesson in fake coupons (I had acquired them here). I saved so much money that I gave one of them to a friend.
I'll be interested to see what happens. I can't count how many free code things have been posted and abused on CAG. Xbox live points, Live Gold Subscriptions, Itune downloads, Pepsi Points, Best Buy Bucks, and more.
I don't remember any negative consequences from those exploits, so I'm curious to see why now.
I don't remember any negative consequences from those exploits, so I'm curious to see why now.
uglyteradon
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Stepto and Major Nelson discuss the issue in their latest podcast (57 minutes in). Basically, they aren't going to pursue anything against those who stole the codes because Microsoft was technically at fault for letting it happen. This could possibly be because Microsoft either can't do anything about it or they have decided to be generous.
You live to spend points for another day.
You live to spend points for another day.
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shrike4242
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That's a shame that they're going to let this go.
confoosious
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[quote name='uglyteradon']Stepto and Major Nelson discuss the issue in their latest podcast (57 minutes in). Basically, they aren't going to pursue anything against those who stole the codes because Microsoft was technically at fault for letting it happen. This could possibly be because Microsoft either can't do anything about it or they have decided to be generous.
You live to spend points for another day.[/QUOTE]
More likely they figured the amount of stolen codes was worth less than the effort in drafting up an action plan and possible legal defense.
At the very least, they should contact their buddies at ebay and get the sellers accounts frozen.
You live to spend points for another day.[/QUOTE]
More likely they figured the amount of stolen codes was worth less than the effort in drafting up an action plan and possible legal defense.
At the very least, they should contact their buddies at ebay and get the sellers accounts frozen.
[quote name='shrike4242']That's a shame that they're going to let this go.[/QUOTE]
I don't know why you think that. This "exploit" was exactly like all of the other "exploits" that people abused to hell and back (Netflix, SmarterChild, etc.) and nothing was ever done by MS about them other than stopping the promos. Heck, this one was the first times I have ever seen CAG not allow a thread about it. None of the other exploit threads were closed down.
Also, they know the exploit was first posted on "hacking" websites. So I suspect they will look into every single suspicious looking account and will more often than not find people that have done something they shouldn't have (modded gamerscore, avatars, etc.). The people who just got codes for themselves and/or unknowingly bought them of the internet shouldn't be punished. Like they said in the podcast, it is all on them, not the people who got the codes.
Now the people who were farming for thousands of codes just to sell them, that is a another issue that I think they should look into.
I don't know why you think that. This "exploit" was exactly like all of the other "exploits" that people abused to hell and back (Netflix, SmarterChild, etc.) and nothing was ever done by MS about them other than stopping the promos. Heck, this one was the first times I have ever seen CAG not allow a thread about it. None of the other exploit threads were closed down.
Also, they know the exploit was first posted on "hacking" websites. So I suspect they will look into every single suspicious looking account and will more often than not find people that have done something they shouldn't have (modded gamerscore, avatars, etc.). The people who just got codes for themselves and/or unknowingly bought them of the internet shouldn't be punished. Like they said in the podcast, it is all on them, not the people who got the codes.
Now the people who were farming for thousands of codes just to sell them, that is a another issue that I think they should look into.
[quote name='life.exe']I don't know why you think that. This "exploit" was exactly like all of the other "exploits" that people abused to hell and back (Netflix, SmarterChild, etc.) and nothing was ever done by MS about them other than stopping the promos. Heck, this one was the first times I have ever seen CAG not allow a thread about it. None of the other exploit threads were closed down.
Also, they know the exploit was first posted on "hacking" websites. So I suspect they will look into every single suspicious looking account and will more often than not find people that have done something they shouldn't have (modded gamerscore, avatars, etc.). The people who just got codes for themselves and/or unknowingly bought them of the internet shouldn't be punished. Like they said in the podcast, it is all on them, not the people who got the codes.
Now the people who were farming for thousands of codes just to sell them, that is a another issue that I think they should look into.[/QUOTE]
+1
Don't punish the CAGs looking for deals, look for those who took advantage of the system for profit. I don't think much will come from this...This is a lesson learned for MS and they will be better off if they just rub dirt on the wound and move on ASAP.
Also, they know the exploit was first posted on "hacking" websites. So I suspect they will look into every single suspicious looking account and will more often than not find people that have done something they shouldn't have (modded gamerscore, avatars, etc.). The people who just got codes for themselves and/or unknowingly bought them of the internet shouldn't be punished. Like they said in the podcast, it is all on them, not the people who got the codes.
Now the people who were farming for thousands of codes just to sell them, that is a another issue that I think they should look into.[/QUOTE]
+1
Don't punish the CAGs looking for deals, look for those who took advantage of the system for profit. I don't think much will come from this...This is a lesson learned for MS and they will be better off if they just rub dirt on the wound and move on ASAP.
Interesting about the webcode manipulation. I thought the codes came from a code generator. Someone just randomly editing a url is probably not grounds for a ban. Also MSFT would be silly to spend money going after people redeeming the codes because in the end they were giving those points away anyway. I could see going after the ebay sellers or at least monitoring them in the future.
confoosious
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[quote name='sgr76']+1
Don't punish the CAGs looking for deals, look for those who took advantage of the system for profit. I don't think much will come from this...This is a lesson learned for MS and they will be better off if they just rub dirt on the wound and move on ASAP.[/QUOTE]
So let's say you're walking down the street and some guy offers to sell you an ipad for $200. It's too good to be true but you check it out, it's genuine and you buy it. You know it's stolen. There's no way anyone can legitimately sell an ipad for $200.
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."
Don't punish the CAGs looking for deals, look for those who took advantage of the system for profit. I don't think much will come from this...This is a lesson learned for MS and they will be better off if they just rub dirt on the wound and move on ASAP.[/QUOTE]
So let's say you're walking down the street and some guy offers to sell you an ipad for $200. It's too good to be true but you check it out, it's genuine and you buy it. You know it's stolen. There's no way anyone can legitimately sell an ipad for $200.
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."
HeSaveDave
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[quote name='confoosious']So let's say you're walking down the street and some guy offers to sell you an ipad for $200. It's too good to be true but you check it out, it's genuine and you buy it. You know it's stolen. There's no way anyone can legitimately sell an ipad for $200.
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."[/QUOTE]
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."[/QUOTE]
[quote name='louiedog']This did not use a code generator. People were sent emails with unique URLs to get their redemption code. They figured out how to manipulate the URL and get codes that did not belong to them.
In the Netflix case a website was setup with X amount of codes and it was supposed to be the first X people to get it. They said one per person but it was on the honor system and limited by email address, although it wasn't secured properly.
[/QUOTE]
[quote name='kklems']Interesting about the webcode manipulation. I thought the codes came from a code generator. Someone just randomly editing a url is probably not grounds for a ban. Also MSFT would be silly to spend money going after people redeeming the codes because in the end they were giving those points away anyway. I could see going after the ebay sellers or at least monitoring them in the future.[/QUOTE]
While the bit about manipulating the URL is true, its also true that they did use a generator. One was made and tied to the URL exploit, allowing for multiple options for getting 160 MSP, 48 Hour Trials, and Banshee codes. I know there was a generator, I saw it myself.
In the Netflix case a website was setup with X amount of codes and it was supposed to be the first X people to get it. They said one per person but it was on the honor system and limited by email address, although it wasn't secured properly.
[/QUOTE]
[quote name='kklems']Interesting about the webcode manipulation. I thought the codes came from a code generator. Someone just randomly editing a url is probably not grounds for a ban. Also MSFT would be silly to spend money going after people redeeming the codes because in the end they were giving those points away anyway. I could see going after the ebay sellers or at least monitoring them in the future.[/QUOTE]
While the bit about manipulating the URL is true, its also true that they did use a generator. One was made and tied to the URL exploit, allowing for multiple options for getting 160 MSP, 48 Hour Trials, and Banshee codes. I know there was a generator, I saw it myself.
bigdaddybruce44
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[quote name='confoosious']So let's say you're walking down the street and some guy offers to sell you an ipad for $200. It's too good to be true but you check it out, it's genuine and you buy it. You know it's stolen. There's no way anyone can legitimately sell an ipad for $200.
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."[/QUOTE]
HAHA...
It's definitely a legal gray area, but if you're active on CAG, you know video games, and you know damn well that those points were selling for well below market value. You cannot honestly tell us you believed the points were gotten legitimately, especially when you consider that they had to be given to you via various 160 point codes.
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."[/QUOTE]
HAHA...
It's definitely a legal gray area, but if you're active on CAG, you know video games, and you know damn well that those points were selling for well below market value. You cannot honestly tell us you believed the points were gotten legitimately, especially when you consider that they had to be given to you via various 160 point codes.
[quote name='confoosious']So let's say you're walking down the street and some guy offers to sell you an ipad for $200. It's too good to be true but you check it out, it's genuine and you buy it. You know it's stolen. There's no way anyone can legitimately sell an ipad for $200.
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."[/QUOTE]
What if you didn't know it isn't possible to sell it at $200.... You go with the mindset that it's used, someone just wants to get rid of it at any cost and doesn't know the full value. Maybe someone needs the cash right now to make some other deadlines like rent, hospital bills, or drugs. Who knows.
Sorta like a garage sale where at times gems are found, while you might find it to be common sense, at times that gray area gets very close.
The police come a calling.
"hey don't punish me officer, I was just looking for deals."[/QUOTE]
What if you didn't know it isn't possible to sell it at $200.... You go with the mindset that it's used, someone just wants to get rid of it at any cost and doesn't know the full value. Maybe someone needs the cash right now to make some other deadlines like rent, hospital bills, or drugs. Who knows.
Sorta like a garage sale where at times gems are found, while you might find it to be common sense, at times that gray area gets very close.
Necrozilla
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Yeah lol I still wouldn't of bought an iPad for $200 since that still sounds crazy high.
Common sense is way too subjective, does that even hold up in court?
Common sense is way too subjective, does that even hold up in court?
Matedawg11
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I bought a few of the codes and I know it seems really obvious to you guys that they were stolen, but at the time I really was not even thinking about why they were so cheap. My CAG instincts just came into action and my thoughts were not "Wow, these have to be stolen cause they're so cheap!" but rather something more along the lines of "Wow, finally Lara Croft!" Please don't start an argument with me about this, I'm simply stating what was going through my head...
[quote name='shrike4242']That's a shame that they're going to let this go.[/QUOTE]
Just because you're a mod doesn't mean you have to be bitter...just sayin
[quote name='shrike4242']That's a shame that they're going to let this go.[/QUOTE]
Just because you're a mod doesn't mean you have to be bitter...just sayin
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confoosious
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[quote name='Denbo32']What if you didn't know it isn't possible to sell it at $200.... You go with the mindset that it's used, someone just wants to get rid of it at any cost and doesn't know the full value. Maybe someone needs the cash right now to make some other deadlines like rent, hospital bills, or drugs. Who knows.
Sorta like a garage sale where at times gems are found, while you might find it to be common sense, at times that gray area gets very close.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I was just making the point that unless you have no idea how much points cost, you know that 160 x multiple purchases was shady as hell.
But you're right, it is entirely possible that you thought the $200 ipad was legit. In which case, you won't be prosecuted (although i'm not sure they have time to prosecute small shit like this anyway) but they can still take your stuff back.
Anyway, all I was saying is that ignorance of an item's hotness doesn't give you any protection: "Don't punish me, I was just looking for deals, officer!"
Sorta like a garage sale where at times gems are found, while you might find it to be common sense, at times that gray area gets very close.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I was just making the point that unless you have no idea how much points cost, you know that 160 x multiple purchases was shady as hell.
But you're right, it is entirely possible that you thought the $200 ipad was legit. In which case, you won't be prosecuted (although i'm not sure they have time to prosecute small shit like this anyway) but they can still take your stuff back.
Anyway, all I was saying is that ignorance of an item's hotness doesn't give you any protection: "Don't punish me, I was just looking for deals, officer!"
chimpmeister
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I'm shocked about the number of fraudulent Microsoft Points auctions on Feebay . . . go there and search for "Microsoft Points", and you'll see tons of auctions for "Silver Accounts preloaded with" 6000, 10,000, 20,000 points or more. Why doesn't Ebay take action on those auctions? They're obviously fraudulent, easy to see when looking at the sketchy auction descriptions.
As for me, I know better than to buy stolen merchandise (which this obviously is). People who claim innocence because they "didn't know" are bullshitting, they knew these deals were "too good to be true" and they all deserve to be banned from XBL.
As for me, I know better than to buy stolen merchandise (which this obviously is). People who claim innocence because they "didn't know" are bullshitting, they knew these deals were "too good to be true" and they all deserve to be banned from XBL.
[quote name='chimpmeister']I'm shocked about the number of fraudulent Microsoft Points auctions on Feebay . . . go there and search for "Microsoft Points", and you'll see tons of auctions for "Silver Accounts preloaded with" 6000, 10,000, 20,000 points or more. Why doesn't Ebay take action on those auctions? They're obviously fraudulent, easy to see when looking at the sketchy auction descriptions.
As for me, I know better than to buy stolen merchandise (which this obviously is). People who claim innocence because they "didn't know" are bullshitting, they knew these deals were "too good to be true" and they all deserve to be banned from XBL.[/QUOTE]
Do you report them? If an auction goes against eBay's terms and someone reports it, eBay is pretty good about shutting it down. They don't have people combing through every single listing that gets placed.
As for me, I know better than to buy stolen merchandise (which this obviously is). People who claim innocence because they "didn't know" are bullshitting, they knew these deals were "too good to be true" and they all deserve to be banned from XBL.[/QUOTE]
Do you report them? If an auction goes against eBay's terms and someone reports it, eBay is pretty good about shutting it down. They don't have people combing through every single listing that gets placed.
chimpmeister
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[quote name='louiedog']Do you report them? If an auction goes against eBay's terms and someone reports it, eBay is pretty good about shutting it down. They don't have people combing through every single listing that gets placed.[/QUOTE]
I reported about 6 of the auctions before I realized that there were literally TONS of fraudulent points auctions up and running. And as far as I can tell, Ebay just doesn't even care about these auctions or the thieves that post them. I've reported other fraudulent auctions in the past, and for the most part Ebay has acted pretty quickly on them, but for these, there just doesn't seem to be any action at all.
I reported about 6 of the auctions before I realized that there were literally TONS of fraudulent points auctions up and running. And as far as I can tell, Ebay just doesn't even care about these auctions or the thieves that post them. I've reported other fraudulent auctions in the past, and for the most part Ebay has acted pretty quickly on them, but for these, there just doesn't seem to be any action at all.
bread's done