Weird incident w/ pictures

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sherisdoppel

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I happened to buy 3 copies of different games from a CAG.

One of them are supposed to be factory sealed, but was arrived in a horrible condition, possibly the worst I've ever seen in my trading history but he states that he is 100% sure he sent a sealed copy.

I cannot tell if this guy is lying or not but this guy has 30 positive feedback and doesn't look like a guy who would lie for just one game.

So assuming that we are both not lying, are there any other possibilities that might have caused this issue? Who are we supposed to blame on?

This is the first time I'm experiencing such incident and am very frustrated. Anyone had similar experiences? Any advices?

Thanks.

PICTURES OF THE ITEM:
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2153/0225001816.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/705/0225001815a.jpg
http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1334/0225001815.jpg
http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2369/0225001814.jpg
 
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i'm not sure what to tell ya unfortunately. the only way you can try and get this resolved is possibly talking to a mod, but like you said, you are the lower feedback, so not too sure exactly what would happen.

but give it a shot talking to a mod, couldn't hurt.
 
What exactly is horrible condition?

Did you ask what envelope he sent it in? Was there any sign of the original wrapping?

I've seen some pretty horrible mail delivery.

For a time I couldn't get a magazine without half the covers ripped off each month. And I've had envelopes barely on and things obviously reboxed after they ripped the box to shreds.

That said, it would take some pretty extraordinary damage to rip a game from the packaging, rip the wrapping off, tear it up, scratch it, etc. It would also be odd if the other games are in the promised condition.
 
My feedback just got lowered from him due to me lowering his.
I've contacted mod, but have yet to receive anything. I believe in mods that they can help me, but I just want to know if such incident happened to anyone so that I can at least make some assumptions out of CAGs' experiences while I'm worrying about it.
 
[quote name='CheapLikeAFox']What exactly is horrible condition?

Did you ask what envelope he sent it in? Was there any sign of the original wrapping?

I've seen some pretty horrible mail delivery.

For a time I couldn't get a magazine without half the covers ripped off each month. And I've had envelopes barely on and things obviously reboxed after they ripped the box to shreds.

That said, it would take some pretty extraordinary damage to rip a game from the packaging, rip the wrapping off, tear it up, scratch it, etc. It would also be odd if the other games are in the promised condition.[/QUOTE]

At the edges of the box, it looks like dogs have bitten them out and there are extremely many scratches on it, and weird things are all over on the cover.

And there is no way that it's been damaged during the shipping since there was no plastic seal or security tape to be found on the package.
 
if im not mistaken, retaliation feedback is not tolerated here, so as long as you left justified feedback you should have no problem getting your negative removed. and a member with over 30 trades should know better then to just retaliate with negative feedback. if he feels something is wrong in most cases he should contact a mod instead of just leaving retaliation feedback.
 
[quote name='crzyjoeguy']if im not mistaken, retaliation feedback is not tolerated here, so as long as you left justified feedback you should have no problem getting your negative removed. and a member with over 30 trades should know better then to just retaliate with negative feedback. if he feels something is wrong in most cases he should contact a mod instead of just leaving retaliation feedback.[/QUOTE]

since you put it that way, it does seem kind of petty doesn't it XD
 
The USPS is the absolute worst, between their high prices and horrid level of service. I receive magazine 3 weeks late that show obvious signs of having been read. packages that come looking like they've been opened and resealed, and I get junk mail not ever from my neighbors, but from people that live 2 blocks away. Gotta love these government monopolies.
 
We generally assume "sealed" goes hand in hand with "mint." It doesn't. I once bought a game from another seller and asked him if it was sealed. He said yes. When I got it, it was indeed sealed but the box was kind of beat up. In hindsight, that was my fault for not asking about the exact condition.

So its better to ask and get pictures to avoid situations like this from ever happening again.
 
[quote name='glemtvapen']We generally assume "sealed" goes hand in hand with "mint." It doesn't. I once bought a game from another seller and asked him if it was sealed. He said yes. When I got it, it was indeed sealed but the box was kind of beat up. In hindsight, that was my fault for not asking about the exact condition.

So its better to ask and get pictures to avoid so it will never happen again.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, but then that's really something he should have mentioned to you anyways since you asked about the condition. What if your game was smashed with a hammer multiple times, but it was still sealed. Stuff like this doesn't need to be necessarily brought up to a mod, but this is why you are allowed to leave negative or neutral feedback for your transactions, so at least the transaction doesn't just seem like it went off without a hitch. I think the annoying thing here is the seller left a feedback in retaliation to the buyer, which as said before, is sorta of childish, and not the best way to handle things. I would like to think of the trading community here as something better than eBay, where condition listed, doesn't always reflect the actual condition it comes in. We should be better than that.
 
How was this game packaged? Do you have pictures of the package and the game itself? I find it extremely odd that a game is shipped sealed and received opened and messed up. Although this can occur its not likely the case and if it was how was the package looking? Was it crushed,broken, ripped, etc was there plastic wrap inside which may have came off the game? More detail is needed in this situation.
 
[quote name='Squarehard']Yeah, but then that's really something he should have mentioned to you anyways since you asked about the condition. What if your game was smashed with a hammer multiple times, but it was still sealed.[/QUOTE]

The seller did have 100% feedback with a lot of sales so I never suspected any foul play like that. But you are right, he should've at least mentioned the condition.
 
I've shipped countless times to fellow cags without any major issues with the usps. Occassionally a case gets cracked. If recieving I accept the fact that this happens every now and then and don't worry if the shipper sent it that way. When the shipper I feel that when it has happened, I've been treated the same. I did have an instance where I shipped a ds game and it got mangled. The game and manual survived, cover art can't remember but may have torn. Even though not my fault I offerred a few bucks back on the purchase and everything was good. (this was a very cheap ds game and the refund basically brought me down to where $$ covered shipping. Anyway, peple need to talk about the problems before leaving FB. The seller should not have left neg. fb in this instance if paid promptly. Also, unless the seller has pics prior to shipping of the item showing the condition, the seller is at their word in regards to the condition it shipped out in. Just something for sellers to consider.
 
[quote name='sherisdoppel']I happened to buy 3 copies of different games from a CAG.

One of them are supposed to be factory sealed, but was arrived in a horrible condition, possibly the worst I've ever seen in my trading history but he states that he is 100% sure he sent a sealed copy.

I cannot tell if this guy is lying or not but this guy has 30 positive feedback and doesn't look like a guy who would lie for just one game.

So assuming that we are both not lying, are there any other possibilities that might have caused this issue? Who are we supposed to blame on?

This is the first time I'm experiencing such incident and am very frustrated. Anyone had similar experiences? Any advices?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

More ESL classes. Kidding.


How was the game shipped? All 3 games together and only 1 was damaged while the other 2 were as-described?

I've also had magazines delivered late and looking like someone read them in the bathroom, but the dog bites and stuff sound like they came from the sender and not the delivery people. Postal employees can open Media Mail, but video games don't qualify for MM and you would've been charged for extra shipping costs before they deliver it to you.

[quote name='sherisdoppel']
At the edges of the box, it looks like dogs have bitten them out and there are extremely many scratches on it, and weird things are all over on the cover.[/QUOTE]

edit - Pics? I want to see the weird things.
 
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I added the picture guys.

And this is not a problem where new sealed cases gets damage during the shipment.
As you see, the case is used for sure no matter what and doesn't look like it happened during the shipping. If the item was supposed to be sealed, that should have at least security tape on the side of the box but I saw none.

I'm not asking to judge him or me. I posted this thread to know are there any other possibilities that might have caused this issue assuming that both sides are not lying.
 
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[quote name='sherisdoppel']I added the picture guys.

And this is not a problem where new sealed cases gets damage during the shipment.
As you see, the case is used for sure no matter what and doesn't look like it happened during the shipping. If the item was supposed to be sealed, that should have at least security tape on the side of the box but I saw none.

I'm not asking to judge him or me. I posted this thread to know are there any other possibilities that might have caused this issue assuming that both sides are not lying.[/QUOTE]
I doubt that happened during 'shipping' and was most likely a misrepresentation by the other person of the items condition to begin with.
 
[quote name='GUNNM']The seller tried to bullshit you[/QUOTE]


QFT

I don't see how the postal service could do all this.
 
As someone who trades a decent amount- I have to say, that is clearly not new.

He just wanted to get away with it because his feedback is higher. Expose him for what he did. tekjansen, should be avoided.

Get Shrike4242 to settle this.
 
Thanks guys.

I have contacted him and he seems to trust the seller more than me obviously because he has more feedback and I don't have any feedback that states conditions of games I got by trading.
The mod is onto this situation, but while he's doing that I just wanted to know if this have ever happened to anyone in CAG to make sure I'm not the only one and so to get some advices what I shall do.
 
[quote name='GUNNM']Is this how this site runs? You have lower feedback so you're the liar?[/QUOTE]

The mod is still in investigation and have not decided who is the liar, but he did said, "As I check over each persons' respective feedback, I see multiple references about the games from the seller being in immaculate condition, perfect condition, sealed and the like. When I look at your feedback, I don't see any references to the condition of games being sold/traded, and a few trades where there's nothing but codes being traded/sold. I also see almost four times the feedback for the seller compared to your feedback." which led me to think that I'm having a slight disadvantage on trusts by having lower feedback.
 
[quote name='sherisdoppel']Thanks guys.

I have contacted him and he seems to trust the seller more than me obviously because he has more feedback and I don't have any feedback that states conditions of games I got by trading.
The mod is onto this situation, but while he's doing that I just wanted to know if this have ever happened to anyone in CAG to make sure I'm not the only one and so to get some advices what I shall do.[/QUOTE]

Man that sucks but hopefully the actual game works right? If so just replace the case.
 
I've had the idea before to start doing a "boxing" video like many groups do "unboxing" videos of new product. Would be great for protection.
 
[quote name='sherisdoppel']The mod is still in investigation and have not decided who is the liar, but he did said, "As I check over each persons' respective feedback, I see multiple references about the games from the seller being in immaculate condition, perfect condition, sealed and the like. When I look at your feedback, I don't see any references to the condition of games being sold/traded, and a few trades where there's nothing but codes being traded/sold. I also see almost four times the feedback for the seller compared to your feedback." which led me to think that I'm having a slight disadvantage on trusts by having lower feedback.[/QUOTE]
Well look at people on this site that had even more feedback that turned out to scam people in the end so although that past info can be useful it doesn't mean that your automatically at fault here. Secondly the seller left/changed feedback in retaliation for you leaving them negative that right there doesn't speak volumes for their character to me especially when the feedback left seems to accuse you of wrong doing before the situation has reached any type of resolution. And who contacted the mod in regards to helping with the issue was it you?
 
Well from looking picture number 3 it is obvious that is clearly not from shipping damages, those look like teeth marks from a dog lol.

i dont like how they trust high sellers and not the new guys, its not really that fair, the guy sherisdoppel traded with has a seller rating of 30 and hes only sold like cheap games, i traded a guy a laptop for a 360, and i only have a seller rating of one, should be like 100,
i know the moderators are doing their best to keep things fair, but please take a look at the case, its pretty straight forward. and if it says SEALED next to it, thats damn well how it should be shipped, the game wasn't even sealed therefore a bad trade. if it was sealed and it had these damages then it coulda been that it was shipping damages that's fine, but that's not how it is here. also he left negative feedback for no reason get that expunged.
 
[quote name='rmb']Anyway, peple need to talk about the problems before leaving FB. The seller should not have left neg. fb in this instance if paid promptly. Also, unless the seller has pics prior to shipping of the item showing the condition, the seller is at their word in regards to the condition it shipped out in. Just something for sellers to consider.[/QUOTE]The seller didn't fire off the first neg feedback, the OP did. Supposedly without any discussion about the situation.

[quote name='GUNNM']Is this how this site runs? You have lower feedback so you're the liar?[/QUOTE]No, that's not how the site runs. Every situation is looked at individually.

[quote name='sherisdoppel']The mod is still in investigation and have not decided who is the liar, but he did said, "As I check over each persons' respective feedback, I see multiple references about the games from the seller being in immaculate condition, perfect condition, sealed and the like. When I look at your feedback, I don't see any references to the condition of games being sold/traded, and a few trades where there's nothing but codes being traded/sold. I also see almost four times the feedback for the seller compared to your feedback." which led me to think that I'm having a slight disadvantage on trusts by having lower feedback.[/QUOTE]That's reading in the situation how you'd like it to look. I said there were multiple references in their feedback about games arriving in pristine condition and in yours, there's no such references. That's all I said.

[quote name='blissskr']Well look at people on this site that had even more feedback that turned out to scam people in the end so although that past info can be useful it doesn't mean that your automatically at fault here. Secondly the seller left/changed feedback in retaliation for you leaving them negative that right there doesn't speak volumes for their character to me especially when the feedback left seems to accuse you of wrong doing before the situation has reached any type of resolution. And who contacted the mod in regards to helping with the issue was it you?[/QUOTE]The OP hasn't shown any signs that they're willing to work with the seller and they fired off the first neg feedback. The seller responded in kind because the OP isn't working with the seller from what I've been told by both sides on the issue of this game.

[quote name='maynemayne2000']Well from looking picture number 3 it is obvious that is clearly not from shipping damages, those look like teeth marks from a dog lol.

i dont like how they trust high sellers and not the new guys, its not really that fair, the guy sherisdoppel traded with has a seller rating of 30 and hes only sold like cheap games, i traded a guy a laptop for a 360, and i only have a seller rating of one, should be like 100,
i know the moderators are doing their best to keep things fair, but please take a look at the case, its pretty straight forward. and if it says SEALED next to it, thats damn well how it should be shipped, the game wasn't even sealed therefore a bad trade. if it was sealed and it had these damages then it coulda been that it was shipping damages that's fine, but that's not how it is here. also he left negative feedback for no reason get that expunged.[/QUOTE]It's not necessarily straight forward, as they both can't be right. There's evidence from both that they're in the right. Plus, all you're seeing here is the OP's side of the situation.

We've had plenty of people get quick feedback by selling items like XBL codes, PSN codes and the like and then they start to pull odd problems out when they've gotten to certain feedback levels. I'm not saying either one is doing that, only that we've had past issues with sellers going bad or scamming when they've made it up enough on the feedback scale.

Just because you swap a laptop for a 360 on your first trade doesn't get you bonus points. In fact, we don't recommend doing something like that on first trades, mainly because it's a scam waiting to happen more times than not.
 
[quote name='spmahn']The USPS is the absolute worst, between their high prices and horrid level of service. I receive magazine 3 weeks late that show obvious signs of having been read. packages that come looking like they've been opened and resealed, and I get junk mail not ever from my neighbors, but from people that live 2 blocks away. Gotta love these government monopolies.[/QUOTE]

That's why whenever possible anymore I just use Priority Mail flat rate whatever so the stuff I'm sending gets there in 2-3 days and I don't have to even package it up myself.:D Just put the item(s) I'm sending in the package and ship 'em off.

Even if it means I'm making pennies on a deal, who cares? I got most of this stuff cheap anyway, so I just wanna get it to the buyer as quickly as possible.

Besides which, I learned my lesson by shipping out 30+ guides in a box that was oddly shaped and some of them got soaked en route. Having to pay AGAIN for shipping to make things right as opposed to doing it right the first time makes you more careful the next time.

Hope everything works out for the OP though.
 
[quote name='WormFOODx']I've had the idea before to start doing a "boxing" video like many groups do "unboxing" videos of new product. Would be great for protection.[/QUOTE]

I've thought about doing that when sending AND receiving, so boxing and unboxing. All you would have to do is set up your webcam and record. It would be a pain though, especially since you just want to open that package as soon as you get it.

Good luck OP, I'm curious to see how this turns out.
 
[quote name='encendido5']I've thought about doing that when sending AND receiving, so boxing and unboxing. All you would have to do is set up your webcam and record. It would be a pain though, especially since you just want to open that package as soon as you get it.

Good luck OP, I'm curious to see how this turns out.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. In fact, that's what I'm going to do from now on.
I'll use my video camera when I unboox packages from trades.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']The seller didn't fire off the first neg feedback, the OP did. Supposedly without any discussion about the situation.

No, that's not how the site runs. Every situation is looked at individually.

That's reading in the situation how you'd like it to look. I said there were multiple references in their feedback about games arriving in pristine condition and in yours, there's no such references. That's all I said.

The OP hasn't shown any signs that they're willing to work with the seller and they fired off the first neg feedback. The seller responded in kind because the OP isn't working with the seller from what I've been told by both sides on the issue of this game.

It's not necessarily straight forward, as they both can't be right. There's evidence from both that they're in the right. Plus, all you're seeing here is the OP's side of the situation.
[/QUOTE]
So situation at hand aside its ok that the seller left retaliatory feedback because the buyer left negative feedback for him first? Now I don't know the whole situation but in general if a buyer paid for the items as agreed with no issue in that regard and was left negative feedback when compared to this from the trading guidelines below it seems to contradict the rules?
-Should I be worried about retaliatory feedback if I have a negative experience and I completed my end of the deal with no issues?
  • Retaliatory feedback will be removed, provided sufficient proof can be shown that it is unwarranted. For example, if user 1 ships an item timely and user 2 doesn't ship for a month. User 1 leaves feedback and User 2 retaliates.

Feedback in this case: Seller 'I shipped a sealed game, wants to return it damaged. Foul play suspected.'
Buyer 'Item was bad used condition instead of SEALED condition. No DC# provided.'
 
All this is interesting. The pictures definitely seem like the game was already damaged. Very odd that only one game came damaged out of the three. So it's either you believe the seller tried to pull a fast one on just one game, or the buyer is doing the same. It is a difficult situation to arbitrate.

I have seen plenty of sellers build up OK feedback only to scam people massively. That said, usually what they do is scam a ton of people at the same time at the end, not just one person.

I can't really call it either way.
 
[quote name='sherisdoppel']Thank you. In fact, that's what I'm going to do from now on.
I'll use my video camera when I unboox packages from trades.[/QUOTE]

I guess it's better than "his word vs. my word" but faking a video would be very easy, especially with a web cam or other low-quality video.
 
[quote name='encendido5']I've thought about doing that when sending AND receiving, so boxing and unboxing. All you would have to do is set up your webcam and record. It would be a pain though, especially since you just want to open that package as soon as you get it.

Good luck OP, I'm curious to see how this turns out.[/QUOTE]

I think a cell phone video might even be ok. Nothing spectacular. It's not like your doing a spectrograph of the CD to analyze for scratches.

Anyway, I've been the sender in this case where the CDs were not in the condition that I thought I was representing. It made me re-evaluate how I use my description terms. Everything was easily resolved through communication, as Shrike says, and we ended up having a positive experience out of it (receiver and I).

One thing I would really like to see the OP get out of this, and anyone reading this for that matter, let's try to have at least a couple of back and forth emails between the two parties before making a post out here. At least enough PMs to where you feel you are at a standstill. Even then, maybe a Mod next? I dunno.
 
[quote name='blissskr']So situation at hand aside its ok that the seller left retaliatory feedback because the buyer left negative feedback for him first? Now I don't know the whole situation but in general if a buyer paid for the items as agreed with no issue in that regard and was left negative feedback when compared to this from the trading guidelines below it seems to contradict the rules?
-Should I be worried about retaliatory feedback if I have a negative experience and I completed my end of the deal with no issues?
  • Retaliatory feedback will be removed, provided sufficient proof can be shown that it is unwarranted. For example, if user 1 ships an item timely and user 2 doesn't ship for a month. User 1 leaves feedback and User 2 retaliates.

Feedback in this case: Seller 'I shipped a sealed game, wants to return it damaged. Foul play suspected.'
Buyer 'Item was bad used condition instead of SEALED condition. No DC# provided.'[/QUOTE]
Assuming he really did ship a sealed game, I don't see his feedback as retaliatory, just states the situation from his perspective.

We don't have the whole story here, I'm not prepared to judge.
 
I think making videos becomes impractical if you sell so much stuff. Maybe for larger more expensive things or so forth.

I tend to under represent the quality of my items and get very detailed. Then again I am used to selling rare CDs to collectors mostly so they are very particular about everything. So my listings usually specifically describe the condition of the CD (types of scratches, number) and any damage to the inserts. I accompany that with some sort of indicator - like new, pretty good, very good, etc - but the description is what is important.

When something is scratched to all heck but still plays, I indicate that as well. I've yet to have a problem with a seller objecting to the condition of an item, though I am keeping my fingers crossed with every sale.
 
Considering the insane amount of posts calling me a liar and a cheat, I won't attempt to individually reply to each. The fact of the matter is that I mailed a sealed game. I also don't believe that the game was damaged in shipping. Could someone please suggest why, after 31 positive feedback, I would lie about ST:TFU being sealed? The game is worth $10. Read my other feedback, multiple times people have noted that my games have been in excellent condition. There was no mistake on my part, the game was mailed sealed, packaged insanely well and shipped via Priority mail with delivery confirmation. I have never owned, much less attempted to trade or sell a game in such poor shape.

I am rather displeased with the bandwagon/angry mob mentality that seems to have developed on this website.
 
[quote name='chakan']Assuming he really did ship a sealed game, I don't see his feedback as retaliatory, just states the situation from his perspective.

We don't have the whole story here, I'm not prepared to judge.[/QUOTE]
I agree and myself personally I'd have attempted to work out the issue fully before leaving any sort of feedback to avoid this type of situation. I do think its a shame that both parties involved can't work it out on their own without having to involve a mod that communication has degraded that much between the two.
 
[quote name='TekJansen']Considering the insane amount of posts calling me a liar and a cheat, I won't attempt to individually reply to each. The fact of the matter is that I mailed a sealed game. I also don't believe that the game was damaged in shipping. Could someone please suggest why, after 31 positive feedback, I would lie about ST:TFU being sealed? The game is worth $10. Read my other feedback, multiple times people have noted that my games have been in excellent condition. There was no mistake on my part, the game was mailed sealed, packaged insanely well and shipped via Priority mail with delivery confirmation. I have never owned, much less attempted to trade or sell a game in such poor shape.

I am rather displeased with the bandwagon/angry mob mentality that seems to have developed on this website.[/QUOTE]


yeah, it's kinda weird that just because the OP posted first, he's suddenly the good guy.
 
[quote name='TekJansen']Considering the insane amount of posts calling me a liar and a cheat, I won't attempt to individually reply to each. The fact of the matter is that I mailed a sealed game. I also don't believe that the game was damaged in shipping. Could someone please suggest why, after 31 positive feedback, I would lie about ST:TFU being sealed? The game is worth $10. Read my other feedback, multiple times people have noted that my games have been in excellent condition. There was no mistake on my part, the game was mailed sealed, packaged insanely well and shipped via Priority mail with delivery confirmation. I have never owned, much less attempted to trade or sell a game in such poor shape.

I am rather displeased with the bandwagon/angry mob mentality that seems to have developed on this website.[/QUOTE]

Yea, I agree with you. This is why I made the recommendation to all of those out there that this hit a Mod first before it becomes a Mob.
 
This whole situation is odd. Neither really has anything to gain out of it.

I assume this was done through paypal gift or some other method that leaves no other recourse aside from forum feedback?
 
I'm with Tek. It really doesn't make sense for someone to throw away their reputation on a $10 game, especially when many of their trades have had much larger values. Doesn't make sense.
 
[quote name='blissskr']I agree and myself personally I'd have attempted to work out the issue fully before leaving any sort of feedback to avoid this type of situation. I do think its a shame that both parties involved can't work it out on their own without having to involve a mod that communication has degraded that much between the two.[/QUOTE]

I did attempt to work the situation out. I logged on to the site to see a negative feedback and no PM's. Only later did I receive a PM letting me know the situation, and was also informed that a mod had already been contacted. I even waited 24 hours and sent numerous PM's before leaving the negative for him. It was also my intention to keep the matter between the two of us, so that no one's reputation was tarnished. Obviously, due to actions taken by the other party, none of that is possible.
 
[quote name='TekJansen']I did attempt to work the situation out. I logged on to the site to see a negative feedback and no PM's. Only later did I receive a PM letting me know the situation, and was also informed that a mod had already been contacted. I even waited 24 hours and sent numerous PM's before leaving the negative for him. It was also my intention to keep the matter between the two of us, so that no one's reputation was tarnished. Obviously, due to actions taken by the other party, none of that is possible.[/QUOTE]
That's why assumptions are made in these situations without hearing from both parties. I don't think negatively of you and apologize if I came off that way. I just found the situation and feedback odd based on the info at hand provided by the Op and hearing both sides clarifies things. It really is an odd situation because like you said its swtfu not like its a hard to find or extremely valuable game. Hope you two are able to work this thing out in the end.
 
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