What a crock of shit: PS3 screws owners of older HDTVs
- Thread starter secretvampire
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[quote name='icruise']That describes the vast majority of HDTVs out there today. It will work fine. It's when the TV doesn't support 720p that there's a problem.[/QUOTE]
Really? The majority of HDTVs out there can display both 720p and 1080i? I would have thought the majority of the HDTVs out there are CRT-based, and cannot do 720p (or they can accept 720p, but downconvert it to 480p).
Really? The majority of HDTVs out there can display both 720p and 1080i? I would have thought the majority of the HDTVs out there are CRT-based, and cannot do 720p (or they can accept 720p, but downconvert it to 480p).
lurknomore
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[quote name='redline']Really? The majority of HDTVs out there can display both 720p and 1080i? I would have thought the majority of the HDTVs out there are CRT-based, and cannot do 720p (or they can accept 720p, but downconvert it to 480p).[/QUOTE]
I think that he means the majority that are being sold today, and that would be the vast majority. However, those that are and were early adopters to HDTV, we're stuck with HDTVs that do not have a 720p option.
I think that he means the majority that are being sold today, and that would be the vast majority. However, those that are and were early adopters to HDTV, we're stuck with HDTVs that do not have a 720p option.
Yeah, that was what mostly what I meant (TVs now being sold or sold in the last few years). Still, it might be true both ways. I don't know for sure what the numbers are for CRT HDTVs vs. LCD/Plasma/projection, but actually I would think that the early adopters are now outnumbered by newer sets.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='redline']Really? The majority of HDTVs out there can display both 720p and 1080i? I would have thought the majority of the HDTVs out there are CRT-based, and cannot do 720p (or they can accept 720p, but downconvert it to 480p).[/QUOTE]
Actually ALL HDTVs display both 720p and 1080i. Some older HDMonitors couldn't scale 720p to 1080i, which is the only issue some PS3 games have.
Actually ALL HDTVs display both 720p and 1080i. Some older HDMonitors couldn't scale 720p to 1080i, which is the only issue some PS3 games have.
klwillis45
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[quote name='the3rdkey']We should just point and laugh at his statement since my HDTV does 1080i and cannot do 780p.[/quote]
We'll just point and laugh at you too.
But yes, a lot of older sets and do not display 720p, especially if you have a direct view CRT.
We'll just point and laugh at you too.
But yes, a lot of older sets and do not display 720p, especially if you have a direct view CRT.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='the3rdkey']We should just point and laugh at his statement since my HDTV does 1080i and cannot do 780p.[/QUOTE]
Then it's not an HDTV. It would technically be an "HD Monitor" or something like that.
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).
Then it's not an HDTV. It would technically be an "HD Monitor" or something like that.
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).
[quote name='Wolfpup']Then it's not an HDTV. It would technically be an "HD Monitor" or something like that.
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).[/QUOTE]
Well, my HDTV was sold as an HDTV - and it "handles" 720p just fine - converts it to 480p for display! See, my SONY brand HDTV "handles" 720p OK. I'm sure that's what Sony would tell me anyway. So what's my problem, I should buy 3 or 4 PS3's!
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).[/QUOTE]
Well, my HDTV was sold as an HDTV - and it "handles" 720p just fine - converts it to 480p for display! See, my SONY brand HDTV "handles" 720p OK. I'm sure that's what Sony would tell me anyway
. So what's my problem, I should buy 3 or 4 PS3's![quote name='Wolfpup']Then it's not an HDTV. It would technically be an "HD Monitor" or something like that.[/QUOTE]
How about "HD-Ready TV"?
[quote name='Wolfpup']
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
[/QUOTE]
What about 1080p?
[quote name='Wolfpup']
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).[/QUOTE]
I guess it's all just terminology, but to me high-definition has always been defined as displaying either 720p or 1080i, EDTV is 480p, and SDTV is 480i. Devices should be able to scale to the resolution your HDTV supports. Xbox 360 can scale 720p games to 1080i. My 4 year old Dish HD receiver can scale 720p to 1080i. Why Sony's state-of-the-art PS3 can't do this is beyond me...
How about "HD-Ready TV"?
[quote name='Wolfpup']
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
[/QUOTE]
What about 1080p?
[quote name='Wolfpup']
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).[/QUOTE]
I guess it's all just terminology, but to me high-definition has always been defined as displaying either 720p or 1080i, EDTV is 480p, and SDTV is 480i. Devices should be able to scale to the resolution your HDTV supports. Xbox 360 can scale 720p games to 1080i. My 4 year old Dish HD receiver can scale 720p to 1080i. Why Sony's state-of-the-art PS3 can't do this is beyond me...
HeadRusch
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[quote name='Wolfpup']Then it's not an HDTV. It would technically be an "HD Monitor" or something like that.
[/QUOTE]
Uh, no.
HDTV is a generic descriptor not an industry term. If the set has an NTSC (SD) Tuner, its an HDTV....but its "HD Ready". If the set has an ATSC tuner, its just an HDTV with a built-in HD tuner. There are HDTV sets that are called HDTV's that are really HD Monitors, with no built in tuner, as well.
Some LCD's and the Panasonic Professional series Plasmas come to mind...
[/QUOTE]
Uh, no.
HDTV is a generic descriptor not an industry term. If the set has an NTSC (SD) Tuner, its an HDTV....but its "HD Ready". If the set has an ATSC tuner, its just an HDTV with a built-in HD tuner. There are HDTV sets that are called HDTV's that are really HD Monitors, with no built in tuner, as well.
Some LCD's and the Panasonic Professional series Plasmas come to mind...
[quote name='Wolfpup']Then it's not an HDTV. It would technically be an "HD Monitor" or something like that.
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).[/quote]
This is completely wrong again. I have a Panasonic plasma television and trust me, it is an HDTV (it says so right on the front!) but it will only do 1080i and 480i/p. It's not EDTV and it's not "HD Ready" either (it has a built-in tuner). It's an HDTV that Sony is ignoring as far as the PS3 goes.
HDTVs contain an ATSC tuner and have to be able to handle all four formats, 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i.
The only exception might be a TV that does handle those formats for broadcast, but not on it's inputs (which would be an odd limitation, but I supposed there could be a set out there like that).[/quote]
This is completely wrong again. I have a Panasonic plasma television and trust me, it is an HDTV (it says so right on the front!) but it will only do 1080i and 480i/p. It's not EDTV and it's not "HD Ready" either (it has a built-in tuner). It's an HDTV that Sony is ignoring as far as the PS3 goes.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='HeadRusch']Uh, no.
HDTV is a generic descriptor not an industry term. If the set has an NTSC (SD) Tuner, its an HDTV....but its "HD Ready". [/quote]
No it's not. I think if someone tried to sell a TV like that at this point they'd get in trouble.
That's fradulent advertising if true.
Look, Sony probably should have included a mechanism for scaling the output to multiple resolutions, but strictly speaking the TV should be able to do that on it's own.
The real fault lies with both the company who sold the TV (which includes Sony apparently) and the consumer who bought a TV without researching what HD was. We've known for as long as there have been HDTVs on the market that true HD has to support all four ATSC resolutions. There was no way in hell I would have bought a TV that didn't support everything.
[quote name='javeryh']This is completely wrong again. I have a Panasonic plasma television and trust me, it is an HDTV (it says so right on the front!) but it will only do 1080i and 480i/p. It's not EDTV and it's not "HD Ready" either (it has a built-in tuner). It's an HDTV that Sony is ignoring as far as the PS3 goes.[/QUOTE]
Then take it back or complain to Panasonic. That's fradulent. An "HDTV" that can't handle all HD channels at an HD resolution isn't a real HDTV. You were scammed.
HDTV is a generic descriptor not an industry term. If the set has an NTSC (SD) Tuner, its an HDTV....but its "HD Ready". [/quote]
No it's not. I think if someone tried to sell a TV like that at this point they'd get in trouble.
That's fradulent advertising if true.
Look, Sony probably should have included a mechanism for scaling the output to multiple resolutions, but strictly speaking the TV should be able to do that on it's own.
The real fault lies with both the company who sold the TV (which includes Sony apparently) and the consumer who bought a TV without researching what HD was. We've known for as long as there have been HDTVs on the market that true HD has to support all four ATSC resolutions. There was no way in hell I would have bought a TV that didn't support everything.
[quote name='javeryh']This is completely wrong again. I have a Panasonic plasma television and trust me, it is an HDTV (it says so right on the front!) but it will only do 1080i and 480i/p. It's not EDTV and it's not "HD Ready" either (it has a built-in tuner). It's an HDTV that Sony is ignoring as far as the PS3 goes.[/QUOTE]
Then take it back or complain to Panasonic. That's fradulent. An "HDTV" that can't handle all HD channels at an HD resolution isn't a real HDTV. You were scammed.
HeadRusch
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Because you're what, 18? HDTV's have been on sale since 1998. In 1998 there was exactly zero HD content. The standard was in place, the TV's were ready, but none of them had OTA tuners because there was nothing to tune in.
When I bought my HD set (HD-Ready, which is what ALL sets were as they lacked an internal tuner). Back in 2003 the majority of sets being sold were CRT RP's and Direct Views, and only a few of them started to incorporate internal scalers...where they would convert everything to 1080i, for example.
This actually pissed alot of people off, who wanted to watch their 480p DVD's in actual 480p without scaling, because some people thought that the inferior scalers put into the TV's at the time did a lousy job of upconverting the DVD signals, and in alot of cases they were correct. Thats why people continued to buy External Scalers costing $800, $1200+.
When I got my 65" set in 2001 everything that output an HD signal had a scaler, because none of the early sets came with them. Even a $9,000 Pioneer Elite had no internal scaler. There was no HD in my area, HD over Cable was years away and HD over Satellite was just starting to happen. All of those devices had scalers because the TV's did not.
Everyone who bought a widescreen HD display before 2002 or 2003 was buying it for one reason: 480p widescreen DVD's. They were the hot new tech, they looked and sounded awesome, but you really needed a widescreen display to appreciate them. HD was "coming". Nobody was buying a set for HD, they were buying it for widescreen.
So before you climb on the high horse and say "well all you people are stupid for buying the wrong set", suggest you take a minute and realize that the problem is bigger than your grasp of it.
Everyone with an expensive set, which by the way has image quality that will beat most sets today assuming its set up and maintained properly, is now being told by Sony "So Sowwwy!" because they didn't include a scaler that every single HD device has had since the 90's....
The laws regarding HD sets changed in 2005, 2006 and 2007. You're probably thinking of the laws that stated all sets had to include ATSC tuners by the end of 2007 regardless of size.
None of this applies to HD sets from even 2-3 years ago.
[quote name='Wolfpup']Regardless, if you choose to buy a set that didn't correctly support all HD formats, complain about your SET, or that the PS3 doesn't support monitors, or whatever.[/QUOTE]
You're splitting hairs. Whatever the cause, whatever the sets are called, the fact remains that the PS3 doesn't properly support a lot of people's HDTVs. I'm hoping that this was merely an oversight of some kind and not an intentional snub of the owners of these TVs. I would think that Sony would have to put some kind of disclaimer on their system if this was really the way they intended it. In any case, they haven't done a very good job of addressing the problem. If they are indeed working on a fix, they should say so.
You're splitting hairs. Whatever the cause, whatever the sets are called, the fact remains that the PS3 doesn't properly support a lot of people's HDTVs. I'm hoping that this was merely an oversight of some kind and not an intentional snub of the owners of these TVs. I would think that Sony would have to put some kind of disclaimer on their system if this was really the way they intended it. In any case, they haven't done a very good job of addressing the problem. If they are indeed working on a fix, they should say so.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='HeadRusch']Nobody could buy a set that could support all HD formats, because those sets did not exist until the past few years.[/QUOTE]
Okay, then again, they weren't real HDTVs. Sony probably should have done something to support monitors, but HDTVs do indeed fully support the PS3.
Okay, then again, they weren't real HDTVs. Sony probably should have done something to support monitors, but HDTVs do indeed fully support the PS3.
HeadRusch
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[quote name='Wolfpup']How so? People wish Sony had included a scaling mechanism for their TVs that don't include it. People with HDTVs have no problems. What else is there to understand?[/QUOTE]
I have a HDTV....says so right on the front of it. Mitsubishi 65" CRT rear projection HDTV. Displays 480i, 480p, 960i, and 1080i. My cable box has a scaler, my upscaling DVD player has a scaler, my HD sets have scalers. I have no problems playing anything on it at 1080i. Its from the 2001 model year.
Its not a lie, a misprint, a fib, or falsehood.
Microsoft, knowing last year that a good HALF OF ALL HD SETS SOLD in the United States up to that point are of this variety (rear projection HD sets and early LCD/Plasma sets that also didn't have scalers in them), put a scaling chip on their design, so their 360 would work with any TV no matter what kind it was or how old.
Sony, for some reason, did not put a scaling chip on their device. Which means, Sony has said "Tough Luck" to everyone with an older set.
You seem to subscribe to Sony's mentality that the HD era starts when they say it does.
Luckily my 65" set isn't the only one in my house, so my PS3 has found a nice 720p home...but my 65" set WAS my gaming set....so Sony has inconvenienced me....which I will remember, and make sure that if my 65" set dies some day, and it eventually will, that whatever I replace it will....most definately wont be a Sony.
I have a HDTV....says so right on the front of it. Mitsubishi 65" CRT rear projection HDTV. Displays 480i, 480p, 960i, and 1080i. My cable box has a scaler, my upscaling DVD player has a scaler, my HD sets have scalers. I have no problems playing anything on it at 1080i. Its from the 2001 model year.
Its not a lie, a misprint, a fib, or falsehood.
Microsoft, knowing last year that a good HALF OF ALL HD SETS SOLD in the United States up to that point are of this variety (rear projection HD sets and early LCD/Plasma sets that also didn't have scalers in them), put a scaling chip on their design, so their 360 would work with any TV no matter what kind it was or how old.
Sony, for some reason, did not put a scaling chip on their device. Which means, Sony has said "Tough Luck" to everyone with an older set.
You seem to subscribe to Sony's mentality that the HD era starts when they say it does.
Luckily my 65" set isn't the only one in my house, so my PS3 has found a nice 720p home...but my 65" set WAS my gaming set....so Sony has inconvenienced me....which I will remember, and make sure that if my 65" set dies some day, and it eventually will, that whatever I replace it will....most definately wont be a Sony.
klwillis45
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I know I 'm wasting my time but here goes:
If a set can display a HD image its an HDTV regardless of wether it has a tuner or not.
480i =SD
480p=ED
720p, 1080i, 1080p =HD
So if a set can display any one of those last 3 its an HDTV.
Regardless, Sony
ed up and everyone knows it. Some just won't admit it.
If a set can display a HD image its an HDTV regardless of wether it has a tuner or not.
480i =SD
480p=ED
720p, 1080i, 1080p =HD
So if a set can display any one of those last 3 its an HDTV.
Regardless, Sony
ed up and everyone knows it. Some just won't admit it.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='HeadRusch']I have a HDTV....says so right on the front of it. Mitsubishi 65" CRT rear projection HDTV. Displays 480i, 480p, 960i, and 1080i. My cable box has a scaler, my upscaling DVD player has a scaler, my HD sets have scalers. I have no problems playing anything on it at 1080i. Its from the 2001 model year.
Its not a lie, a misprint, a fib, or falsehood. [/quote]
Yes it is. You bought an HD Monitor. Not an HDTV.
Sony probably should have done the same, but to this specific point that the thread is about, they DID make it compatible with HDTVs.
All HDTVs have to either somehow support all those resolutions natively (some kind of uber CRT) or else have to be able to scale them. You wouldn't be able to even watch half the TV channels out there if you don't support all digital resolutions.
No, I subscribe to the mentality that an HDTV is an HDTV, and monitor isn't an HDTV just because it can display some HD resolutions.
So you'll avoid one of the best brands on the market to get revenge on Sony for not supporting a set-when it was YOU who didn't do research prior to buying that set to make sure it was future proof?
Seriously, I *NEVER* would have bought a TV prior to ones that support all formats. I *KNEW* I'd be out of luck at some point if I couldn't support everything. Granted, people shouldn't have to do that much research in buying a TV, but still, these were early adopters that have these things, and I sure would have done my homework before dropping thousands on something.
[quote name='klwillis45']I know I 'm wasting my time but here goes:
If a set can display a HD image its an HDTV regardless of wether it has a tuner or not. [/quote]
Completely false. By your definition, almost any computer monitor released in the last decade is an "HDTV". That label has an actual meaning, which is why we started seeing screens labeled as things like "HD Monitor" or the like.
Its not a lie, a misprint, a fib, or falsehood. [/quote]
Yes it is. You bought an HD Monitor. Not an HDTV.
Sony probably should have done the same, but to this specific point that the thread is about, they DID make it compatible with HDTVs.
All HDTVs have to either somehow support all those resolutions natively (some kind of uber CRT) or else have to be able to scale them. You wouldn't be able to even watch half the TV channels out there if you don't support all digital resolutions.
No, I subscribe to the mentality that an HDTV is an HDTV, and monitor isn't an HDTV just because it can display some HD resolutions.
So you'll avoid one of the best brands on the market to get revenge on Sony for not supporting a set-when it was YOU who didn't do research prior to buying that set to make sure it was future proof?
Seriously, I *NEVER* would have bought a TV prior to ones that support all formats. I *KNEW* I'd be out of luck at some point if I couldn't support everything. Granted, people shouldn't have to do that much research in buying a TV, but still, these were early adopters that have these things, and I sure would have done my homework before dropping thousands on something.
[quote name='klwillis45']I know I 'm wasting my time but here goes:
If a set can display a HD image its an HDTV regardless of wether it has a tuner or not. [/quote]
Completely false. By your definition, almost any computer monitor released in the last decade is an "HDTV". That label has an actual meaning, which is why we started seeing screens labeled as things like "HD Monitor" or the like.
[quote name='HeadRusch']Luckily my 65" set isn't the only one in my house, so my PS3 has found a nice 720p home...but my 65" set WAS my gaming set....so Sony has inconvenienced me....which I will remember, and make sure that if my 65" set dies some day, and it eventually will, that whatever I replace it will....most definately wont be a Sony.[/quote]
Chances are any hdtv you get in the future will already support at least 720p and 1080i, and probably 1080p so it wouldn't matter if you got a sony or not and you probably already know it, but I guess it's the principle behind your decision that counts lol.
Though on another point, after walking around best buy looking at tv's, I think Sony tv's are a bit overpriced. I'd go the cheap Westinghouse route or wait for MicroDisplay to put out some of their cheap 1080p tvs.
Chances are any hdtv you get in the future will already support at least 720p and 1080i, and probably 1080p so it wouldn't matter if you got a sony or not and you probably already know it, but I guess it's the principle behind your decision that counts lol.
Though on another point, after walking around best buy looking at tv's, I think Sony tv's are a bit overpriced. I'd go the cheap Westinghouse route or wait for MicroDisplay to put out some of their cheap 1080p tvs.
I'm going to say this one more time - I bought a ing SONY HDTV (in 2003). And it "supports" 720p in that it accepts the signal and downconverts it to 480p. So, Wolfpup, according to your definition, I guess it really is an HDTV as SONY (repeat SONY SONY SONY) says it is.
At the time I wasn't into gaming, and, admittedly, I didn't know too much about HDTV. I did know about the 2 (at the time) formats. I had read that any HD cable tuner that I would have to get (which I never did) would convert 720p to 1080i for me, so that was the end of my concern.
Now, along comes SONY, the maker of my TV by the way (did I mention that?), and makes this awesome "next-gen" gaming system that for all practical puposes doesn't work on my TV.
Now, this pisses me off in TWO ways - first that they ignore/minimize/whatever it is this week this issue. But beyond that, I think we all remember when Sony said the PS3 would be able to drive dual-1080p monitors? Well, I was fine with them dropping that fairly stupid feature. However, it was clear they meant for all PS3 games to be 1080p (and thus compatible with 1080i sets fairly easily). Now, it turns out, 1080p games will have "issues" (low frame-rate for filling in all that data, etc) and most of the launch titles, and presumably, most for the near future will be 720p. I wasn't expecting that to be the case, but I guess I should have approached Sony's arrogant claims with more skepticism.
ing SONY HDTV (in 2003). And it "supports" 720p in that it accepts the signal and downconverts it to 480p. So, Wolfpup, according to your definition, I guess it really is an HDTV as SONY (repeat SONY SONY SONY) says it is.At the time I wasn't into gaming, and, admittedly, I didn't know too much about HDTV. I did know about the 2 (at the time) formats. I had read that any HD cable tuner that I would have to get (which I never did) would convert 720p to 1080i for me, so that was the end of my concern.
Now, along comes SONY, the maker of my TV by the way (did I mention that?), and makes this awesome "next-gen" gaming system that for all practical puposes doesn't work on my TV.
Now, this pisses me off in TWO ways - first that they ignore/minimize/whatever it is this week this issue. But beyond that, I think we all remember when Sony said the PS3 would be able to drive dual-1080p monitors? Well, I was fine with them dropping that fairly stupid feature. However, it was clear they meant for all PS3 games to be 1080p (and thus compatible with 1080i sets fairly easily). Now, it turns out, 1080p games will have "issues" (low frame-rate for filling in all that data, etc) and most of the launch titles, and presumably, most for the near future will be 720p. I wasn't expecting that to be the case, but I guess I should have approached Sony's arrogant claims with more skepticism.
LV-426RS
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I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I've read Wolfpup is partially right. If your tv does not include a tuner it is an HD-Monitor or HD-Ready TV. An HDTV has the integrated tuner.
That aside, IMO Sony still should have thought about the huge amount of HD-Ready TV's that have been sold through the years.
That aside, IMO Sony still should have thought about the huge amount of HD-Ready TV's that have been sold through the years.
[quote name='Supernothing']I haven't read the whole thread, but from what I've read Wolfpup is partially right. If your tv does not include a tuner it is an HD-Monitor or HD-Ready TV. An HDTV has the integrated tuner.
That aside, IMO Sony still should have thought about the huge amount of HD-Ready TV's that have been sold through the years.[/QUOTE]
MY tv has an HD tuner built in. All I have to do is get a regular old TV antenna hook it up and I've got broadcast channels in HD, however, it only supports the resolutions of 480i, 480p, and 1080i. By Wolfpup's logic is it an HDTV or an HD monitor? My definition says the words on the front of the TV say HDTV, Sony's logic obviously says "not so much really...".
That aside, IMO Sony still should have thought about the huge amount of HD-Ready TV's that have been sold through the years.[/QUOTE]
MY tv has an HD tuner built in. All I have to do is get a regular old TV antenna hook it up and I've got broadcast channels in HD, however, it only supports the resolutions of 480i, 480p, and 1080i. By Wolfpup's logic is it an HDTV or an HD monitor? My definition says the words on the front of the TV say HDTV, Sony's logic obviously says "not so much really...".
[quote name='Supernothing']That's where he's only partially right. It doesn't matter if it only supports 1080i or if it supports all resolutions. The tuner is what decides it.
Actually I guess he's not right at all. Resolutions make it HD. The tuner makes it HDTV, HD-Ready TV or HD monitor.[/QUOTE]
Bingo.
Actually I guess he's not right at all. Resolutions make it HD. The tuner makes it HDTV, HD-Ready TV or HD monitor.[/QUOTE]
Bingo.
Wolfpup
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[quote name='RedvsBlue']MY tv has an HD tuner built in. All I have to do is get a regular old TV antenna hook it up and I've got broadcast channels in HD, however, it only supports the resolutions of 480i, 480p, and 1080i. By Wolfpup's logic is it an HDTV or an HD monitor? My definition says the words on the front of the TV say HDTV, Sony's logic obviously says "not so much really...".[/QUOTE]
If it doesn't support 720p you'd be missing a ton of channels, and it's certainly not an HDTV.
I've said this before, but the only exception I can think of is if the tuner supports all four formats, but for some reason it can't accept all four through the inputs. I guess that would still be an HDTV, but it would be pretty stupid on the manufacturer's part. I have no idea if such a set actually exists.
[quote name='io']I'm going to say this one more time - I bought aing SONY HDTV (in 2003). And it "supports" 720p in that it accepts the signal and downconverts it to 480p. So, Wolfpup, according to your definition, I guess it really is an HDTV as SONY (repeat SONY SONY SONY) says it is.[/quote]
No, I don't think downconverting stuff to 480p counts. It's not an HDTV if it dosen't support the broadcasts of all four resolutions (scaled to it's native HD resolution). Downconverting stuff would make it a "DigitalTV", like the SDTVs that are now sold with ATSC tuners.
I do have to wonder if people would have recourse against companies who sold TVs like this as "HDTVs". Seems like a better thing to make a class action suit over than some of the stupid things people sue about.
I never expected 1080p games either, but that's probably because I already know what the RSX can do. Games like Oblivion on PC can bring it to it's knees above 720p resolutions. The RSX does (most likely) have double the fill rate of 360's Xenos, which is why even in first generation games we're seeing some cross platform games run at 1080p on the PS3 (sometimes with extra effects thrown in) when of course they're limited to 720p on the 360.
My guess is we'll mostly see 1080p in cross platform games where they're designed for the 360's fill rate as the lowest common denominator, so can bump up the resolution for more or less "free" on the PS3. (The problem being 1080p requires closer to 3x the fill rate, while the PS3 only has about double the fill rate of the 360, so that may not always work out-or you'll get a situation like Marvel Ultimate Alliance where it runs at a higher resolution and has flashier effects, but is supposed to have some framerate issues along with that.)
[quote name='imascrub']
Though on another point, after walking around best buy looking at tv's, I think Sony tv's are a bit overpriced. I'd go the cheap Westinghouse route or wait for MicroDisplay to put out some of their cheap 1080p tvs.[/QUOTE]
You get what you pay for IMO. The Westinghouses have image quality issues from what I've read, and, the Sony's have great scalers, etc. There's no way I'd touch a Westinghouse. Samsung's good too, and a lot of them use the same panels as the Sonys, but the Sony's tend to have better "support" electronics in there. I've been REALLY happy with my TV's scaler, as there's no lag, 480i is very usable (as long as you're at least a few feet back!), etc.
If it doesn't support 720p you'd be missing a ton of channels, and it's certainly not an HDTV.
I've said this before, but the only exception I can think of is if the tuner supports all four formats, but for some reason it can't accept all four through the inputs. I guess that would still be an HDTV, but it would be pretty stupid on the manufacturer's part. I have no idea if such a set actually exists.
[quote name='io']I'm going to say this one more time - I bought a
ing SONY HDTV (in 2003). And it "supports" 720p in that it accepts the signal and downconverts it to 480p. So, Wolfpup, according to your definition, I guess it really is an HDTV as SONY (repeat SONY SONY SONY) says it is.[/quote]No, I don't think downconverting stuff to 480p counts. It's not an HDTV if it dosen't support the broadcasts of all four resolutions (scaled to it's native HD resolution). Downconverting stuff would make it a "DigitalTV", like the SDTVs that are now sold with ATSC tuners.
I do have to wonder if people would have recourse against companies who sold TVs like this as "HDTVs". Seems like a better thing to make a class action suit over than some of the stupid things people sue about.
I never expected 1080p games either, but that's probably because I already know what the RSX can do. Games like Oblivion on PC can bring it to it's knees above 720p resolutions. The RSX does (most likely) have double the fill rate of 360's Xenos, which is why even in first generation games we're seeing some cross platform games run at 1080p on the PS3 (sometimes with extra effects thrown in) when of course they're limited to 720p on the 360.
My guess is we'll mostly see 1080p in cross platform games where they're designed for the 360's fill rate as the lowest common denominator, so can bump up the resolution for more or less "free" on the PS3. (The problem being 1080p requires closer to 3x the fill rate, while the PS3 only has about double the fill rate of the 360, so that may not always work out-or you'll get a situation like Marvel Ultimate Alliance where it runs at a higher resolution and has flashier effects, but is supposed to have some framerate issues along with that.)
[quote name='imascrub']
Though on another point, after walking around best buy looking at tv's, I think Sony tv's are a bit overpriced. I'd go the cheap Westinghouse route or wait for MicroDisplay to put out some of their cheap 1080p tvs.[/QUOTE]
You get what you pay for IMO. The Westinghouses have image quality issues from what I've read, and, the Sony's have great scalers, etc. There's no way I'd touch a Westinghouse. Samsung's good too, and a lot of them use the same panels as the Sonys, but the Sony's tend to have better "support" electronics in there. I've been REALLY happy with my TV's scaler, as there's no lag, 480i is very usable (as long as you're at least a few feet back!), etc.
HeadRusch
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Wolfpup']If it doesn't support 720p you'd be missing a ton of channels, and it's certainly not an HDTV. [/QUOTE]
Are you a girl? Seriously, because much like a woman, you simply can't accept that your *wrong*, and keep skipping around the arguements that prove that you are wrong as though they do not exist.
http://download.jazel.net/misc/filecache/00/0088ea531d886c7445c700f7b8c35b80_1102-V18.pdf
There is the manual to my TV. Its an HD-Ready TV, which is what ALL HD SETS WERE CALLED because back then almost ZERO sets sold, regardless of price, came with a built-in ATSC TUNER. My set has TWO NTSC tuners built into it....its an HD-Ready TV. .Its not an HD Monitor, its an HDTV.
Now for *comparisons sake*, I also own a Westinghouse 1080p 37" set. It has NO tuners at all in it. It doesn't have a Coax jack for a cable line. It *IS* a HD Monitor, and is referred to as such.
If you are saying that "Its not an HDTV unless it has a built-in ATSC Tuner", then your argument is only valid on TV's made after the year 2005 or 2006, when that law came into effect that all tv's over a certain size had to have a tuner built into them....but thats not for HD stations, thats for *DIGITAL* tuning. The HD part doesn't matter, its that all televisions sold have to be able to receive digital transmissions over the air. Digital Transmission != HDTV necessarily.
Just accept that your definition that you are so desperately clinging to is *incorrect* and move on. Consider yourself "enlightened", pulled from the darkness, k? IF the set has an ATSC tuner built in, and it receives a channel broadcast in 720p, but it cannot NATIVELY display 720p like most CRT rear projection sets, it will output it as 1080i because it has a scaler. Its an HDTV.
A 720p display cannot natively show the 1080i broadcasts sent out by CBS, by NBC......so by your definition those sets are real HDTV's either? Its absurd.
Your'e basically quoting someones marketing line.
Seriously, stop getting your HDTV information from Best Buy.
Are you a girl? Seriously, because much like a woman, you simply can't accept that your *wrong*, and keep skipping around the arguements that prove that you are wrong as though they do not exist.
http://download.jazel.net/misc/filecache/00/0088ea531d886c7445c700f7b8c35b80_1102-V18.pdf
There is the manual to my TV. Its an HD-Ready TV, which is what ALL HD SETS WERE CALLED because back then almost ZERO sets sold, regardless of price, came with a built-in ATSC TUNER. My set has TWO NTSC tuners built into it....its an HD-Ready TV. .Its not an HD Monitor, its an HDTV.
Now for *comparisons sake*, I also own a Westinghouse 1080p 37" set. It has NO tuners at all in it. It doesn't have a Coax jack for a cable line. It *IS* a HD Monitor, and is referred to as such.
If you are saying that "Its not an HDTV unless it has a built-in ATSC Tuner", then your argument is only valid on TV's made after the year 2005 or 2006, when that law came into effect that all tv's over a certain size had to have a tuner built into them....but thats not for HD stations, thats for *DIGITAL* tuning. The HD part doesn't matter, its that all televisions sold have to be able to receive digital transmissions over the air. Digital Transmission != HDTV necessarily.
Just accept that your definition that you are so desperately clinging to is *incorrect* and move on. Consider yourself "enlightened", pulled from the darkness, k? IF the set has an ATSC tuner built in, and it receives a channel broadcast in 720p, but it cannot NATIVELY display 720p like most CRT rear projection sets, it will output it as 1080i because it has a scaler. Its an HDTV.
A 720p display cannot natively show the 1080i broadcasts sent out by CBS, by NBC......so by your definition those sets are real HDTV's either? Its absurd.
Your'e basically quoting someones marketing line.
Seriously, stop getting your HDTV information from Best Buy.
HeadRusch
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Wolfpup']So you'll avoid one of the best brands on the market to get revenge on Sony for not supporting a set-when it was YOU who didn't do research prior to buying that set to make sure it was future proof?
[/QUOTE]
After about six months of research, in 2000, I determined that the best bang for the buck was the TV I bought. None of the Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Sony or Pioneer Elite models supported 720p. No CRT Rear Projection televisions supported 720p natively. The technology to make a CRT paint a progressive image 1280x720 wasn't available so nobody offered it. Your arguement says "well, then you were stupid....I wouldn't have bought a TV then". Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
And if none of us had bought our sets, you wouldn't be playing in HD right now....but lets get back to the point...none of the sets supported 720p.
Was this a problem? No.
Why? Because all devices had scalers. If you bought a satellite dish that let you get some content in HD, it had a scaler. When HD finally began to be carried over the air, you could buy an external HDTV ATSC Tuner...that had a scaler. And when HD became available over cable, the cable boxes all had scalers. Without it, a person with a 1080i CRT set couldn't watch ABC broadcasting in 720p, and those people with 720p sets couldn't watch PBS, NBC, CBS, etc, etc who were all broadcasting in 1080i. At the time Fox didn't support HDTV, adn said "its a fad...we'll support 480p!".
In 2001, when I bought my set, there were no channels broadcasting in HD.
HDTV was on the way. Now, you could hook any one of these TV's up to a Computer and display 1080i or 540p. This is the way all sets were, not just "A few of them and we stupidly chose the wrong TV's".
Most people were not buying these sets to display HD, because HD WASNT EVEN AVAILALBE YET....they were buying them to watch native widescreen anamorphic DVD's. Since all devices had scalers in them, we all knew we'd be set to watch any channel in HD because the devices would scale for us.
Your homework wouldn't have gotten you anywhere because in 2000 and 2001 there were almost no sets that would meet your criteria. We all bought our sets to watch widescreen DVD's and knew that hardware makers would support our sets in the future. By and large, they did...they put scalers in everything. The Xbox was the first device to not include a scaler. People found out the hard way that the 720p games required your TV set to either support 720p natively or have a scaler.
Basically, only the people who owned Hitachi Ultravisions back then could play those 720p games on a CRT Rear Projector (which were the most dominant kind of HD set sold at th etime). Microsoft realized their error. Sony, I guess, either doesn't care.....or....well, no, they must simply not care. I guess they figure by now people would have already moved to newer sets.
HD Monitor is only on a device that had no Tuner at all. ATSC or NTSC.
HD-Ready is the term used (and still is today) on devices that accept a HD signal but dont have an internal ATSC tuner.
HDTV implies it has an internal ATSC tuner.
[/QUOTE]
After about six months of research, in 2000, I determined that the best bang for the buck was the TV I bought. None of the Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Sony or Pioneer Elite models supported 720p. No CRT Rear Projection televisions supported 720p natively. The technology to make a CRT paint a progressive image 1280x720 wasn't available so nobody offered it. Your arguement says "well, then you were stupid....I wouldn't have bought a TV then". Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.
And if none of us had bought our sets, you wouldn't be playing in HD right now....but lets get back to the point...none of the sets supported 720p.
Was this a problem? No.
Why? Because all devices had scalers. If you bought a satellite dish that let you get some content in HD, it had a scaler. When HD finally began to be carried over the air, you could buy an external HDTV ATSC Tuner...that had a scaler. And when HD became available over cable, the cable boxes all had scalers. Without it, a person with a 1080i CRT set couldn't watch ABC broadcasting in 720p, and those people with 720p sets couldn't watch PBS, NBC, CBS, etc, etc who were all broadcasting in 1080i. At the time Fox didn't support HDTV, adn said "its a fad...we'll support 480p!".
In 2001, when I bought my set, there were no channels broadcasting in HD.
HDTV was on the way. Now, you could hook any one of these TV's up to a Computer and display 1080i or 540p. This is the way all sets were, not just "A few of them and we stupidly chose the wrong TV's".
Most people were not buying these sets to display HD, because HD WASNT EVEN AVAILALBE YET....they were buying them to watch native widescreen anamorphic DVD's. Since all devices had scalers in them, we all knew we'd be set to watch any channel in HD because the devices would scale for us.
Your homework wouldn't have gotten you anywhere because in 2000 and 2001 there were almost no sets that would meet your criteria. We all bought our sets to watch widescreen DVD's and knew that hardware makers would support our sets in the future. By and large, they did...they put scalers in everything. The Xbox was the first device to not include a scaler. People found out the hard way that the 720p games required your TV set to either support 720p natively or have a scaler.
Basically, only the people who owned Hitachi Ultravisions back then could play those 720p games on a CRT Rear Projector (which were the most dominant kind of HD set sold at th etime). Microsoft realized their error. Sony, I guess, either doesn't care.....or....well, no, they must simply not care. I guess they figure by now people would have already moved to newer sets.
HD Monitor is only on a device that had no Tuner at all. ATSC or NTSC.
HD-Ready is the term used (and still is today) on devices that accept a HD signal but dont have an internal ATSC tuner.
HDTV implies it has an internal ATSC tuner.
HeadRusch has pretty much nailed it. My TV as well is "HD-ready". As you say, none (or very few anyway) HDTV's actually had built-in HD tuners before a few years ago. Mine has a regular SD tuner, but it is still an HDTV (or HDTV-ready in any case).
My TV, Wolfpup, is not aing EDTV like those crappy 480p monitors. It is a typical pre-2004 1080i rear-projection set. It has the "feature" that 720p is downscaled to 480p instead of being rejected. It was expected, as HeadRusch so well-described, that whatever HD tuner you bought or were provided with via your cable company, would scale to 720p to 1080i. When I bought mine, HDTV broadcasts were active already and this was still the situation. Thus, while I was aware my TV didn't support 720p and was also aware this was the standard chosen by some of the broadcasters, I figured (correctly at the time) that it shouldn't matter.
I came into it a little later than you HeadRusch - it was late 2003 and I was seriously considering getting one of those brand-new fancy Samsung DLP sets. At the time, a 50" DLP set would have set me back $4000-$5000. They were 720p (only) of course. My Sony rear-projection set fit perfectly in the "cut-out" in my family room entertainment center and after a CC coupon cost me about $1300. So there was really no problem going with the Sony.
I will upgrade my TV at some point (though what I will do with the huge-ass Sony I have no idea). I'm waiting for the 1080p sets to settle down and pick the best type (DLP, LCD, Lcos, whatever there is out there now).
My TV, Wolfpup, is not a
ing EDTV like those crappy 480p monitors. It is a typical pre-2004 1080i rear-projection set. It has the "feature" that 720p is downscaled to 480p instead of being rejected. It was expected, as HeadRusch so well-described, that whatever HD tuner you bought or were provided with via your cable company, would scale to 720p to 1080i. When I bought mine, HDTV broadcasts were active already and this was still the situation. Thus, while I was aware my TV didn't support 720p and was also aware this was the standard chosen by some of the broadcasters, I figured (correctly at the time) that it shouldn't matter.I came into it a little later than you HeadRusch - it was late 2003 and I was seriously considering getting one of those brand-new fancy Samsung DLP sets. At the time, a 50" DLP set would have set me back $4000-$5000. They were 720p (only) of course. My Sony rear-projection set fit perfectly in the "cut-out" in my family room entertainment center and after a CC coupon cost me about $1300. So there was really no problem going with the Sony.
I will upgrade my TV at some point (though what I will do with the huge-ass Sony I have no idea
). I'm waiting for the 1080p sets to settle down and pick the best type (DLP, LCD, Lcos, whatever there is out there now).[quote name='Wolfpup']If it doesn't support 720p you'd be missing a ton of channels, and it's certainly not an HDTV.
I've said this before, but the only exception I can think of is if the tuner supports all four formats, but for some reason it can't accept all four through the inputs. I guess that would still be an HDTV, but it would be pretty stupid on the manufacturer's part. I have no idea if such a set actually exists.
[/QUOTE]
I guess the channels of NBC, Universal HD (both owned by General Electric), CBS, The CW, HBO, Showtime, Starz!, INHD, HDNet ,TNT, and Discovery HD all don't understand what your definition of HDTV is because theyING BROADCAST HD IN 1080i RESOLUTION!
I've said this before, but the only exception I can think of is if the tuner supports all four formats, but for some reason it can't accept all four through the inputs. I guess that would still be an HDTV, but it would be pretty stupid on the manufacturer's part. I have no idea if such a set actually exists.
[/QUOTE]
I guess the channels of NBC, Universal HD (both owned by General Electric), CBS, The CW, HBO, Showtime, Starz!, INHD, HDNet ,TNT, and Discovery HD all don't understand what your definition of HDTV is because they
ING BROADCAST HD IN 1080i RESOLUTION!As you can see there are more channels that broadcast in 1080i than there are that broadcast in 720p. So anyway, you're obviously not going to listen to this either or find some asinine reason why this information is wrong as well but I feel pretty vindicated right now so what's the difference.
Wolfpup
CAGiversary!
[quote name='HeadRusch']
There is the manual to my TV. Its an HD-Ready TV, which is what ALL HD SETS WERE CALLED because back then almost ZERO sets sold, regardless of price, came with a built-in ATSC TUNER. My set has TWO NTSC tuners built into it....its an HD-Ready TV. .Its not an HD Monitor, its an HDTV. [/quote]
It's a regular TV that can handle an HD resolution. It's not an HDTV.
Right, but you're still not an HDTV if you can't handle every ATSC format, and the HD resolutions at an HD resolution (ie no scaling one or both down to 640x480).
Right. Exactly.
Huh? No, if they can handle all four formats and do the HD resolutions at an HD resolution, they're considered an HDTV.
No, exactly the opposite. Several other people on here are trying to pretend that their set that doesn't handle all ATSC formats is an HDTV.
[quote name='HeadRusch']
And if none of us had bought our sets, you wouldn't be playing in HD right now[/quote]
Probably bogus, but regardless you choose to buy a set you knew didn't support all formats. You had to expect you'd run into something that would need it.
Actually it did get me somewhere-I considered buying a set, and passed because I knew they weren't future proof.
I'm just making a really simple point here-it's VERY debatable whether it's the fault of the company that makes a device to connect to the TV, or the company that makes the TV. Either way, the PS3 *DOES* work with HDTVs in HD, so the thread title is bogus. There's a lot of misinformation and Sony bashing going on with this.
Which means too that presumably it supports all four formats...which is what I keep saying.
HD Monitor != HDTV
HD Ready != HDTV
Again, by the standard a lot of you are trying to use, almost any computer monitor is an "HDTV".
[quote name='io']HeadRusch has pretty much nailed it. My TV as well is "HD-ready". As you say, none (or very few anyway) HDTV's actually had built-in HD tuners before a few years ago. Mine has a regular SD tuner, but it is still an HDTV (or HDTV-ready in any case).[/quote]
And again, they weren't HDTVs. That's my point. This thread should have read "PS3 doesn't work with older HD sets" or something like that. Not "doesn't work with HDTVs". That's also confusing and misleading for normal consumers who are going out now to get an HDTV, and are scared the PS3 won't work with it.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']I guess the channels of NBC, Universal HD (both owned by General Electric), CBS, The CW, HBO, Showtime, Starz!, INHD, HDNet ,TNT, and Discovery HD all don't understand what your definition of HDTV is because theyING BROADCAST HD IN 1080i RESOLUTION![/quote]
As you can see there are more channels that broadcast in 1080i than there are that broadcast in 720p. So anyway, you're obviously not going to listen to this either or find some asinine reason why this information is wrong as well but I feel pretty vindicated right now so what's the difference.[/QUOTE]
What the heck are you talking about? You just proved my point. HD broadcasts are in four formats, two HD. If you don't handle all four, you're not an HDTV.
There is the manual to my TV. Its an HD-Ready TV, which is what ALL HD SETS WERE CALLED because back then almost ZERO sets sold, regardless of price, came with a built-in ATSC TUNER. My set has TWO NTSC tuners built into it....its an HD-Ready TV. .Its not an HD Monitor, its an HDTV. [/quote]
It's a regular TV that can handle an HD resolution. It's not an HDTV.
Right, but you're still not an HDTV if you can't handle every ATSC format, and the HD resolutions at an HD resolution (ie no scaling one or both down to 640x480).
Right. Exactly.
Huh? No, if they can handle all four formats and do the HD resolutions at an HD resolution, they're considered an HDTV.
No, exactly the opposite. Several other people on here are trying to pretend that their set that doesn't handle all ATSC formats is an HDTV.
[quote name='HeadRusch']
And if none of us had bought our sets, you wouldn't be playing in HD right now[/quote]
Probably bogus, but regardless you choose to buy a set you knew didn't support all formats. You had to expect you'd run into something that would need it.
Actually it did get me somewhere-I considered buying a set, and passed because I knew they weren't future proof.
I'm just making a really simple point here-it's VERY debatable whether it's the fault of the company that makes a device to connect to the TV, or the company that makes the TV. Either way, the PS3 *DOES* work with HDTVs in HD, so the thread title is bogus. There's a lot of misinformation and Sony bashing going on with this.
Which means too that presumably it supports all four formats...which is what I keep saying.
HD Monitor != HDTV
HD Ready != HDTV
Again, by the standard a lot of you are trying to use, almost any computer monitor is an "HDTV".
[quote name='io']HeadRusch has pretty much nailed it. My TV as well is "HD-ready". As you say, none (or very few anyway) HDTV's actually had built-in HD tuners before a few years ago. Mine has a regular SD tuner, but it is still an HDTV (or HDTV-ready in any case).[/quote]
And again, they weren't HDTVs. That's my point. This thread should have read "PS3 doesn't work with older HD sets" or something like that. Not "doesn't work with HDTVs". That's also confusing and misleading for normal consumers who are going out now to get an HDTV, and are scared the PS3 won't work with it.
[quote name='RedvsBlue']I guess the channels of NBC, Universal HD (both owned by General Electric), CBS, The CW, HBO, Showtime, Starz!, INHD, HDNet ,TNT, and Discovery HD all don't understand what your definition of HDTV is because they
ING BROADCAST HD IN 1080i RESOLUTION![/quote]As you can see there are more channels that broadcast in 1080i than there are that broadcast in 720p. So anyway, you're obviously not going to listen to this either or find some asinine reason why this information is wrong as well but I feel pretty vindicated right now so what's the difference.[/QUOTE]
What the heck are you talking about? You just proved my point. HD broadcasts are in four formats, two HD. If you don't handle all four, you're not an HDTV.
HeadRusch
CAGiversary!
Wolfpup is arguing semantics, nothing more.
Sony should have included a scaler, to handle the hundreds of thousands of sets that account for probably 90% of all the HD sets sold in the US before 2003, sets that dont have internal scalers or who downgrade the signal to 480p or 540p. Whatever the you choose to call them, Sony has left those people out in the cold, and its a shame.
Sony should have included a scaler, to handle the hundreds of thousands of sets that account for probably 90% of all the HD sets sold in the US before 2003, sets that dont have internal scalers or who downgrade the signal to 480p or 540p. Whatever the
you choose to call them, Sony has left those people out in the cold, and its a shame.[quote name='HeadRusch']The problem, as evidenced in this thread, is that your by-the-books definition of what an HDTV actually is only compounding the confusion and adding flames to an already confusing topic, not helping alleviate it.[/QUOTE]
Another key point is that Sony is not supporting a type of TV (whether you want to call it HDTV, HD monitor, EDTV, or aing black & white RCA model from 1950 depending on your semantics ) that one of it's key competitors DOES support. This is making me seriously consider getting a 360, something which I would never have even come close to considering otherwise. Now I'm on the fence between the two. I want an HD-gaming experience to compliment the Wii. Unless Sony fixes this problem or more games start coming out with native support for 1080i, I will get a 360 (will probably wait for a price drop though). At the very least it has discouraged me from getting a PS3 ASAP, as I would otherwise have done. I actually saw one in the store 2 days before Christmas (they had 3 - said they had been sitting there all day last Sat) and for a second considered picking one up, but then remembered this issue and passed.
Another key point is that Sony is not supporting a type of TV (whether you want to call it HDTV, HD monitor, EDTV, or a
ing black & white RCA model from 1950 depending on your semantics ) that one of it's key competitors DOES support. This is making me seriously consider getting a 360, something which I would never have even come close to considering otherwise. Now I'm on the fence between the two. I want an HD-gaming experience to compliment the Wii. Unless Sony fixes this problem or more games start coming out with native support for 1080i, I will get a 360 (will probably wait for a price drop though). At the very least it has discouraged me from getting a PS3 ASAP, as I would otherwise have done. I actually saw one in the store 2 days before Christmas (they had 3 - said they had been sitting there all day last Sat) and for a second considered picking one up, but then remembered this issue and passed.[quote name='Ub3rChief']io, it all depends (or should depend) on the games. If I really liked what the PS3 had to offer, I'd get one regardless of price.
Since the paltry sum $ony offers isn't (wasn't) appealing, I chose the 360, and I don't regret my choice yet.[/QUOTE]
It's not the price, it's the scaling problem.
Actually, I don't want to play any of the current PS3 games, and there's only a handful of 360 games I'd play, so I probably should be waiting anyway. I was instinctively leaning towards the PS3 as I like the Sony-exclusives (Jak, Ratchet, Sly, FF, etc) and all the RPG's that came out on the PS2 (assuming those would continue). Then the announcement of Oblivion being released on the PS3 I thought was a huge coup for Sony - that pretty much settled me on getting a PS3. But that was before I found out about the scaling issue.
Since the paltry sum $ony offers isn't (wasn't) appealing, I chose the 360, and I don't regret my choice yet.[/QUOTE]
It's not the price, it's the scaling problem.
Actually, I don't want to play any of the current PS3 games, and there's only a handful of 360 games I'd play, so I probably should be waiting anyway. I was instinctively leaning towards the PS3 as I like the Sony-exclusives (Jak, Ratchet, Sly, FF, etc) and all the RPG's that came out on the PS2 (assuming those would continue). Then the announcement of Oblivion being released on the PS3 I thought was a huge coup for Sony - that pretty much settled me on getting a PS3. But that was before I found out about the scaling issue.
[quote name='Wolfpup']
What the heck are you talking about? You just proved my point. HD broadcasts are in four formats, two HD. If you don't handle all four, you're not an HDTV.[/QUOTE]
Let that one sink in and you tell me why its easily the most asinine statement in this entire thread.
Now, as far as a TV handling 1080i and 720p, there aren't a whole hell of a lot. The TV's internal HD-tuner may down or upscale it but that doesn't mean its handling that resolution. Remember how my last had Fox on it? Well I've watched fox in HD on my 1080i TV. In fact its the HD channel I usually watch the most often because the signal is so stong compared to the other broadcasts.
What the heck are you talking about? You just proved my point. HD broadcasts are in four formats, two HD. If you don't handle all four, you're not an HDTV.[/QUOTE]
Let that one sink in and you tell me why its easily the most asinine statement in this entire thread.
Now, as far as a TV handling 1080i and 720p, there aren't a whole hell of a lot. The TV's internal HD-tuner may down or upscale it but that doesn't mean its handling that resolution. Remember how my last had Fox on it? Well I've watched fox in HD on my 1080i TV. In fact its the HD channel I usually watch the most often because the signal is so stong compared to the other broadcasts.
rickonker
CAGiversary!
[quote name='Wolfpup']It's a regular TV that can handle an HD resolution. It's not an HDTV.[/quote]
Whatever the "official" definition of HDTV is, I think as far as most people are concerned, any TV that can handle an HD resolution is a High Definition TV or HDTV. Sony chose not to support many of these TVs properly and that's the real issue here.
Whatever the "official" definition of HDTV is, I think as far as most people are concerned, any TV that can handle an HD resolution is a High Definition TV or HDTV. Sony chose not to support many of these TVs properly and that's the real issue here.
bread's done