What is your view on illegal music downloading?

j1mb07

j1mb07

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I am writing a persuasive essay on illegal music downloading and want some input. Im not going to say whether I am for or against it as I want to get opinions from both sides.

Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?

If anyone has any good points or references to share feel free to. Thanks
 
[quote name='j1mb07']
Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
[/quote]

No, it's stealing/copyright infringement.

What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
Click to expand...

The fines are too high. They need to be high enough to be a deterrent--but just having a $20 fine or whatever would be sufficient since a person could have just paid 99 cents or so for the song legally. Thus ending up paying $20 for the file with the fine should be sufficent.

Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?
Click to expand...

Some may, but it doesn't justify the illegal action of downloading the songs. There are plenty of ways to preview music--radio, online radio, artists myspace pages, samples on sites like Amazon etc.
 
[quote name='j1mb07']
Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
[/quote]
I think it already is, they aren't being sold. Just because the RIAA is winning against people, does not mean they are on the right side of the law.

[quote name='j1mb07']
What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
[/quote]
Insane. If it really is illegal and must be fined, something like $10 per song would get the point across to the average person.

[quote name='j1mb07']
Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?
[/quote]
I can only speak for myself. I download albums that are out of print or that I want to "try". If it's worth buying, I buy it.

This site seems pretty informative, but I think you should check the references for legitimacy.
 
I listen to obscure music, and I've never been unable to find some sort of sample online for the music I want to get. So, torrenting an album to preview it just isn't necessary.
 
[quote name='j1mb07']I am writing a persuasive essay on illegal music downloading and want some input. Im not going to say whether I am for or against it as I want to get opinions from both sides.

Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
[/QUOTE]
Not if they're public domain.

What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
Click to expand...
Depends on the circumstances.

Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?
Click to expand...
No intent to purchase.
 
IMO it's not stealing if it's not tangible. And I don't want to hear anyone countering the argument of "It's lost money because you would have bought it at a store." BS! I used to be a downloadaholic until I got my slap on the wrist letter from my internet provider and guess what... I still haven't bought more than a few CDs or DVDs since I stopped years ago.

If it was a few bucks to download an album and the per song price was a few for a dollar, more people would go that route; 99 cents a song is still too high. You gotta think, cut out the middle men, packaging, materials, the logistics, the store overhead, and all that, the artists will still come out the same if sold directly digitally. Because we're used to paying XX.XX for a whole album to cover all the overhead for a physical copy, doesn't mean we should have to while costs all but disappear.
 
[quote name='QiG']IMO it's not stealing if it's not tangible. And I don't want to hear anyone countering the argument of "It's lost money because you would have bought it at a store." BS! I used to be a downloadaholic until I got my slap on the wrist letter from my internet provider and guess what... I still haven't bought more than a few CDs or DVDs since I stopped years ago.

If it was a few bucks to download an album and the per song price was a few for a dollar, more people would go that route; 99 cents a song is still too high. You gotta think, cut out the middle men, packaging, materials, the logistics, the store overhead, and all that, the artists will still come out the same if sold directly digitally. Because we're used to paying XX.XX for a whole album to cover all the overhead for a physical copy, doesn't mean we should have to while costs all but disappear.[/QUOTE]

Thinking something is overpriced is no justification for stealing.

What it says is that music isn't worth much money to you, and you're now doing the proper thing by just not acquiring much since you're not willing to pay the current prices.
 
[quote name='j1mb07']I am writing a persuasive essay on illegal music downloading and want some input. Im not going to say whether I am for or against it as I want to get opinions from both sides.

Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?

If anyone has any good points or references to share feel free to. Thanks[/quote]

1) No

2) Too high. Like someone said earlier, make it reasonable, but large enough to deter people from doing it

3) Both, but probably 90% (or higher) do it to keep from purchasing an album. What gets me is the cost of some cd's. You can't honestly expect someone to pay $18.99 for an album in stores when they can either A) buy downloads for
 
[quote name='QiG']IMO it's not stealing if it's not tangible. And I don't want to hear anyone countering the argument of "It's lost money because you would have bought it at a store." BS! I used to be a downloadaholic until I got my slap on the wrist letter from my internet provider and guess what... I still haven't bought more than a few CDs or DVDs since I stopped years ago.

If it was a few bucks to download an album and the per song price was a few for a dollar, more people would go that route; 99 cents a song is still too high. You gotta think, cut out the middle men, packaging, materials, the logistics, the store overhead, and all that, the artists will still come out the same if sold directly digitally. Because we're used to paying XX.XX for a whole album to cover all the overhead for a physical copy, doesn't mean we should have to while costs all but disappear.[/QUOTE]

similar thought to this.

I abhore the middle guys, the record labels, the RIAA...

All the money should go back to the artist/writer and he/she pay the rest of the guys, producer, soundstage, label...

I love concerts for that fact, because I know the artist is getting a huge cut of it, not the other way around with albums and digital distros.

It's still illegal and I haven't bothered since music is so easily available for free anyways, pandora, internet radio...
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']It's stealing. I won't do it.[/quote]

It's actually not stealing.

[quote name='willardhaven']Any law savvy folks here who know what law(s) file sharing breaks?[/quote]

None... unless the copyright holder objects.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Any law savvy folks here who know what law(s) file sharing breaks?[/QUOTE]

Not a legal expert, but it breaks copyright laws. It's not as gregarious as pirating and selling stuff for cheaper, but you still can't give away copies of copyrighted material you own while keeping the original copy for yourself.

It's not limited to music either. For instance professors sometimes get into trouble for making copies of journal articles and book chapters to give to their students for course readings--particularly if it's put into a course pack that is sold to students by a university copy center. They need to get promission from the publishers to reproduce and distribute the material for that purpose.
 
Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
--
Of course, you get way faster download speeds. The is nothing illegal about using a P2P download service, many companies already incorporate it into their download system, it saves them bandwidth. Why are you even asking this question?


What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
--
I personally think its a silly amount of money for a single song, but if you're only going to go after a few people, you gotta use a higher amount.


Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?
--
I believe some people do download to sample and then purchase.

I have no data to back it up, but I would assume that the majority of people illegally downloading music, however, do not intend to purchase.
 
If you're going to buy the CD, please buy it directly from the band on tour if at all possible. It's the easiest way to bypass the middle man and make sure the most of your dollar goes directly to the band.

Most bands, smaller ones espescially, live and die by merchandise money. That money ensures that the band can get to the next show. They're not making jack off of CD sales to begin with, but those CD sales guarantee that they'll still be able to release CD's.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
--
Of course, you get way faster download speeds. The is nothing illegal about using a P2P download service, many companies already incorporate it into their download system, it saves them bandwidth. Why are you even asking this question?
[/QUOTE]

Come on now, you know what he meant. To rephrase his question:

Do you think downloading copyrighted files you did not pay for off a P2P program should be legal?
 
I'm a dedicated musician, and I download all of my music off at what and waffles.

I don't know what the future of music distribution will be, but I can I only hope for the best and do my part.

I hope kids are illegally downloading my music one day. ;)

That said, I have an extensive vinyl collection and a pretty good number of CDs, so I'm not a completely selfish music nazi.
 
[quote name='j1mb07']I am writing a persuasive essay on illegal music downloading and want some input. Im not going to say whether I am for or against it as I want to get opinions from both sides.

Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?[/quote]

Yes. I think bands and/or record companies should find a way to make P2P profitable, make P2P a win-win for everyone (a monthly-priced P2P buffet, a P2P with fees, or best option a P2P based on an advertising model). When P2P was in it's hayday it was one centralized place where you could find almost any music you wanted DRM-free in various flavors of quality and data compression. You could also "friend" real people who shared musical tastes to discover new music (instead of relying on shitty corporate-controlled computer algorithms that are supposed to tell you what you like) It's ridiculous that these days consumers are forced to use inferior music delivery systems such as physical CDs or ITunes because the record industry is full of luddites and lawyers.

[quote name='j1mb07']What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?[/quote]

Cruel and unusual. The punishment should fit the crime. Bankrupting single mothers in the projects and poor college students because they downloaded a few tunes is obviously ridiculous.

[quote name='j1mb07']Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?[/quote]

Some sample, but IMO the silent majority of P2Pers either like free music or figure if they're going to get the grief (IE lawsuit threats) then they might as well get the gravy (IE free music). Doesn't make it right, but in a mess like this there are no angels and plenty of blame to go around.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Come on now, you know what he meant. To rephrase his question:

Do you think downloading copyrighted files you did not pay for off a P2P program should be legal?[/QUOTE]
I answered the question that was asked. I don't look for or create a meaning to the question that suits the answer I want to give.
 
I pirate the shit out of music. If it's good, chances are I'll buy the CD shortly afterward. More than likely, I'll see the band live (where they really make money). I operate a music blog, and have had bands contact me to put their shit up for free download, just in the hopes of exposure.
 
i see it like this - downloading copyrighted music is illegal, and if you're caught, you gotta man up and face the music (pun)

BUT, the price should be the current retail price of the album, so, if you by chance stole 3 snoop songs, then you should have to pay for his album at the retail price (that nasty 16 dollar price...not that amazon 9 dollar price)

That just seems very fair. I know if i were caught, I would quickly offer to just buy the albums of all the songs i've stole. That's what I do anyways. I liked what I heard from stevie wonder so much I bought almost all his albums!


Honestly though, I'm glad the RIAA isn't doing the lawsuits anymore! Also, their whole plan was illogical. Instead of going after that girl down the street or that college kid like me, they should have went after the huge uploaders who parade behind some group and get the retail album before it even gets shipped to retail stores! Maybe that's where all that backlash from the public came from.
 
[quote name='SneakyPenguin']I pirate the shit out of music. If it's good, chances are I'll buy the CD shortly afterward. More than likely, I'll see the band live (where they really make money). I operate a music blog, and have had bands contact me to put their shit up for free download, just in the hopes of exposure.[/quote]

This. Pretty much this is how I got heavily into ska, found Streetlight Manifesto after Kalnoky left Catch-22 - then bought all their cds (same for Flogging Molly, which I have seen live twice and own a ton of their shirts), etc.

By the way, you have a kick ass blog Sneaky.

Oh yeah, fuck the RIAA. They should no longer exist, and I see no point to them other than as a mafia-esque cartel.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']I answered the question that was asked. I don't look for or create a meaning to the question that suits the answer I want to give.[/QUOTE]

:roll:

That's hardly what anyone was doing who read into the question what the OP really meant, and just phrased poorly.

Of course there is nothing wrong or illegal with P2P software in itself. What is wrong is distributing copyrighted material over P2P, or e-mail, or FTP sites, etc. etc.
 
[quote name='javeryh']It's actually not stealing.[/QUOTE]

Explain to me how it isn't stealing please. If I am a musician and I create a song to sell online or on a CD and a person purchases my song once then posts it on a P2P site for the whole world to d/l, how is that not stealing? The first person didn't steal it, but the thousands of others sure did!
 
[quote name='j1mb07']I am writing a persuasive essay on illegal music downloading and want some input. Im not going to say whether I am for or against it as I want to get opinions from both sides.

Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?
What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?

If anyone has any good points or references to share feel free to. Thanks[/quote]


I'll say this...

I really don't mind DRM as long as CDs are CLEARLY labeled with what is in them and they don't try to sneak shit onto peoples PCs. That Sony Rootkit stuff years ago really pissed me off. Screwing up the computers of people who actually BOUGHT the CD was stupid. It's no different than Starforce in regards to PC games. All that does is piss off the poeple who would actually buy your product.
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']Explain to me how it isn't stealing please. If I am a musician and I create a song to sell online or on a CD and a person purchases my song once then posts it on a P2P site for the whole world to d/l, how is that not stealing? The first person didn't steal it, but the thousands of others sure did![/QUOTE]
Digital data is an infinite good. No one is deprived when you download a copy of a file. You don't copy someone's car; you steal it.

That difference is key. The market is changing. There is an infinite supply of digital goods, so the cost should be zero. Simply supply and demand. What musicians and companies need to do is use their music to build brands and sell scarce goods, like merchandise and concert tickets.
 
No one is deprived when you d/l a copy of a file? What about the person who worked hard to create said file and didn't get paid when you stole it? Just because you didn't steal something physical doesn't mean you didn't steal something. If you want to go down this road, then we should just throw all patents and copyrights out the window since they're just safeguarding intellectual, non-physical, ideas!
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']No one is deprived when you d/l a copy of a file? What about the person who worked hard to create said file and didn't get paid when you stole it? Just because you didn't steal something physical doesn't mean you didn't steal something. If you want to go down this road, then we should just throw all patents and copyrights out the window since they're just safeguarding intellectual, non-physical, ideas![/QUOTE]

The legal and colloquial definitions of theft are different, which is likely the source of the gulf of understanding here. Larceny requires you to actually "take away" the property and deprive its rightful owner of its use. As I recall, the chief exception to that is criminal conversion.

But that's about as far as Crim Law I took me.
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']No one is deprived when you d/l a copy of a file? What about the person who worked hard to create said file and didn't get paid when you stole it? Just because you didn't steal something physical doesn't mean you didn't steal something. If you want to go down this road, then we should just throw all patents and copyrights out the window since they're just safeguarding intellectual, non-physical, ideas![/quote]

It's not that difficult to "right click", "copy", and "paste".
 
[quote name='pacifickarma']No one is deprived when you d/l a copy of a file? What about the person who worked hard to create said file and didn't get paid when you stole it? Just because you didn't steal something physical doesn't mean you didn't steal something. If you want to go down this road, then we should just throw all patents and copyrights out the window since they're just safeguarding intellectual, non-physical, ideas![/QUOTE]
Patent and copyright law are fundamentally flawed and skewed towards content creators, harming the public and stifling innovation.
 
[quote name='j1mb07']
Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?[/quote]
No. Its the same as going to the mall and stealing something off the shelf. This time you just sit on your fat ass and make justifications why its okay for you to do what your doing. Nope nope.

[quote name='j1mb07']What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250? [/quote]

Sounds about right. Makes $1 on Itunes sound a little better doesn't it?

[quote name='j1mb07']Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album? [/quote]

No, its solely to DL. A sample is just that, a piece of the product to see if you like it; Not the entire product. Its all business, and if you want something you have to pay for it. Its part of the cultures self entitlement mentality that they find some reasoning that they deserve it for free. I dont get it.
 
I personally would prefer a site like eMusic go back to all you can eat for a single monthly fee. Provided that it is DRM free. I've probably blown several hundred in the last 365 days at Amazon, simply for the fact that it is totally stripped of DRM. Then again, what I listen to the most, are not associated with RIAA
 
[quote name='Lice']Sounds about right. Makes $1 on Itunes sound a little better doesn't it?[/quote]

But Apple STILL dictates what you can do with it. That is unless you have something to strip the DRM. Which I find is more hassle than its worth, hence I only use iTunes for podcasts for the likes of Countdown with Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, and RealTime with Bill Maher...
 
[quote name='j1mb07']Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?[/QUOTE]

Are you asking if using P2P programs should be legal at all, or if it should be legal to download copyrighted material without purchase?

I don't think anyone can object to P2P in itself, since it has legitimate uses beyond just piracy. I wouldn't be surprised if most of its use (by bandwidth) is actually for legal downloading of free material.
 
I can't count the number of times I've seen kids come to shows already knowing the lyrics to new songs that aren't out yet. To a lot bands I've toured with, it's sorta flattering to think that someone wanted to hear the new material bad enough to go out and search for it - I understand it's not hard to find, but to a lot of bands, the fact the people find out about your band in an age where it's so hard just to get noticed is a big help.

In theory, sharing music is a lot like burning a CD for a friend or passing around a mixtape like we used to do years ago. The problem is that it's become so easy to share them worldwide that it honestly is hurting CD sales - it might not look like it because artists like Kanye and Britney are still selling millions first week out, but the smaller bands are getting hurt by it because they weren't selling much to begin with.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']Patent and copyright law are fundamentally flawed and skewed towards content creators, harming the public and stifling innovation.[/QUOTE]

How does someone not being able to listen to my music at will because they are cheap either "harm the public" or "stifle innovation"? The stifling of innovation comes from too many douches stealing something and the creator gets less or no money, thus they stop creating.
[quote name='willardhaven']Have you ever met someone who didn't want the largest group of people possible to enjoy his or her invention/creation?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've met literally countless people who don't want their inventions stolen and only want those who pay for it to use it.

Are you guys really this stupid, or are you just such big offenders of copyright law that you must find a way to rationalize your actions in your feeble minds?
 
I have been going the Zune Pass route. Its all you can download for $15 per month provided you keep you subscription current. Otherwise you can have 10 DRM free songs downloaded and kept per month. I don't like P2P because of the crappy quality of the files, different bit rates for the same songs on your album, inability to find certain songs, songs loaded with viruses and trojan horses, and extremely slow downloads on some files. In my opinion p2p is simply not worth the hassle.
 
There are legal avenues of purchasing music and games.

It takes far more knowledge of criminal techniques to locate, download, and be able to use pirated content (music notwithstanding).

People actively seek ways to not pay for the content and material they use, and go to great lengths to avoid paying anything for the things that their insatiable materialistic instant-gratification-driven attitudes demand of themselves.

If you can't pony up iTunes prices, you deserve the large fines. Though I think they should be smaller so people would actually pay them. Like $100 fine with a maximum of $2,000, coinciding with the surrender of the media holding the pirated content. You abandon your rights to what is contained on your PC's hard drive if you have pirated content on it. (tho' legally proving it was known to be pirated is another, more complex issue).

Music piracy is, dmaul, absolute proof that there's no deterrent effect. ;)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']There are legal avenues of purchasing music and games.

It takes far more knowledge of criminal techniques to locate, download, and be able to use pirated content (music notwithstanding).

People actively seek ways to not pay for the content and material they use, and go to great lengths to avoid paying anything for the things that their insatiable materialistic instant-gratification-driven attitudes demand of themselves.

If you can't pony up iTunes prices, you deserve the large fines. Though I think they should be smaller so people would actually pay them. Like $100 fine with a maximum of $2,000, coinciding with the surrender of the media holding the pirated content. You abandon your rights to what is contained on your PC's hard drive if you have pirated content on it. (tho' legally proving it was known to be pirated is another, more complex issue).

Music piracy is, dmaul, absolute proof that there's no deterrent effect. ;)[/quote]

Are you saying it takes a smart person to download illegal software? My little sister knows how...
 
[quote name='j1mb07']
Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?[/quote]

I don't really like to argue it either way. If I were a musician, I would probably like the added exposure to my music, but I think I would be a little upset with my music being distributed that way.

What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?
Click to expand...

Seems way too excessive.

Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?
Click to expand...

When I was in college, I downloaded music via P2P. If I heard something I liked, I definitely went out and bought albums. So some people definitely do download to sample. Myspace and other sites do make it very easy to sample without downloading, however. (To be somewhat fair, I hadn't heard of/used Myspace back in my downloading days.)

And I certainly would say "sampling to possibly purchase" is a small, small fraction of people; most just download because they want free music.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It takes more know-how than downloading music via itunes or other digitally-deliverable (legal) avenues.[/quote]

Sorry, if my 8 year old sister can install Photoshop, and Limewire Pro, all by herself, than it's obviously not that hard. No "know-how" involved.
 
Do you think downloading files off a P2P program should be legal?

No. It is stealing.

What are your opinions on the fine of downloading 1 illegal music file averaging $9,250?

It's balls insane. Big business lobbying tactics hard at work. Nothing justifies that amount.

Do you believe people illegally download music to sample a CD then possibly purchase, or solely download songs online with no intent to purchase an album?

I've personally bought CDs after downloading them, but I have also not done so. But that's still more money in the greedy record company's pocket than they would have gotten if I didn't download it first.

Even though I think it's stealing, I still think it's okay to download illegally music for free because most of the time buying CDs only makes the fatcat record execs rich and keeps the bands poor. What record companies do to the real artists is the bigger crime than the downloading of music.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']There are legal avenues of purchasing music and games.

It takes far more knowledge of criminal techniques to locate, download, and be able to use pirated content (music notwithstanding).

People actively seek ways to not pay for the content and material they use, and go to great lengths to avoid paying anything for the things that their insatiable materialistic instant-gratification-driven attitudes demand of themselves.

If you can't pony up iTunes prices, you deserve the large fines. Though I think they should be smaller so people would actually pay them. Like $100 fine with a maximum of $2,000, coinciding with the surrender of the media holding the pirated content. You abandon your rights to what is contained on your PC's hard drive if you have pirated content on it. (tho' legally proving it was known to be pirated is another, more complex issue).

Music piracy is, dmaul, absolute proof that there's no deterrent effect. ;)[/quote]


I wonder how people in the wrestling thread would feel since PPV feeds are freely exchanged. :lol:

It's a bit of apples and oranges since most probably aren't copying the feed, but it still is a similar situation.
 
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