I'm sure this topic has been brought up before, but what the heck, I'll bring it up again. Does anybody know why Nintendo doesn't put out a disk or offer Wii demo downloads? I really cannot see why they wouldn't want to. Yeah, I've turned away from some games because the demo sucked, but like many of you, I've bought a ton of games based on demos alone. Demos are a great way to see how the game plays because reviews can only go so far. Gimme my Wii demos dag-nabbit.
Where the F*** are my Wii Demos
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KingofOldSchool
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[quote name='dchrisd']I'm sure this topic has been brought up before, but what the heck, I'll bring it up again. Does anybody know why Nintendo doesn't put out a disk or offer Wii demo downloads? I really cannot see why they wouldn't want to. Yeah, I've turned away from some games because the demo sucked, but like many of you, I've bought a ton of games based on demos alone. Demos are a great way to see how the game plays because reviews can only go so far. Gimme my Wii demos dag-nabbit.[/QUOTE]
Because it doesn't fit into their demographic.
Because it doesn't fit into their demographic.
is a demographic?!
No demo downloads because of the memory constraints. Even the "SD Card Solution" (which is more a farce each passing day) doesn't solve it, since you'd still have to copy it to internal memory, and I imagine even the lightest demos of retail games would clock in at 256 MB or more, which is already half the available space. A hard drive is really the only way to pull this off outside of streaming demos, and let's face it - their online infrastructure simply won't be able to handle that.
No demo discs because they are stubborn and set in their ways, and would most likely view it as a waste of time and resources being devoted to a making a demo instead of just finishing the game. Further, their answer to this is the Nintendo Channel, since you'll get videos and whatnot there. If anyone is going to make them, it would have to be from a third party, and they'd have to mastermind the whole thing. I.e., Konami would have to do it themselves - Nintendo wants no part in it. This might change as digital distribution becomes more mainstream, but that won't be for years at the earliest.
There's another psychological reasoning at play, in that Nintendo assumes people who follow the industry and post on forums and so forth are already educated on what they want to play, and thus demos aren't really required. The other side who buys based on title/coverart/price/other-insignificant-criteria isn't going to pay attention to demos outside of the ones available in stores.
Please note I am not defending these decisions - I am explaining them. There is a difference.
Also please let's not let this thread devolve into another stupid flamefest. It hasn't yet, but the universe is a cruel mistress and constantly lowers my standards even when I was sure they were at rock bottom. I know that's really difficult for CAG to not do, so feel free to surprise me.
No demo discs because they are stubborn and set in their ways, and would most likely view it as a waste of time and resources being devoted to a making a demo instead of just finishing the game. Further, their answer to this is the Nintendo Channel, since you'll get videos and whatnot there. If anyone is going to make them, it would have to be from a third party, and they'd have to mastermind the whole thing. I.e., Konami would have to do it themselves - Nintendo wants no part in it. This might change as digital distribution becomes more mainstream, but that won't be for years at the earliest.
There's another psychological reasoning at play, in that Nintendo assumes people who follow the industry and post on forums and so forth are already educated on what they want to play, and thus demos aren't really required. The other side who buys based on title/coverart/price/other-insignificant-criteria isn't going to pay attention to demos outside of the ones available in stores.
Please note I am not defending these decisions - I am explaining them. There is a difference.
Also please let's not let this thread devolve into another stupid flamefest. It hasn't yet, but the universe is a cruel mistress and constantly lowers my standards even when I was sure they were at rock bottom. I know that's really difficult for CAG to not do, so feel free to surprise me.
KingofOldSchool
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KingofOldSchool
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[quote name='Strell']There's another psychological reasoning at play, in that Nintendo assumes people who follow the industry and post on forums and so forth are already educated on what they want to play, and thus demos aren't really required. The other side who buys based on title/coverart/price/other-insignificant-criteria isn't going to pay attention to demos outside of the ones available in stores.[/QUOTE]
I don't really buy this one. They offer DS demos through the Nintendo Channel, and had their DS demo stations for years.
I don't really buy this one. They offer DS demos through the Nintendo Channel, and had their DS demo stations for years.
And how big are the DS demos? It's clear that the DS was designed with that functionality in mind, which I suspect has everything to do with it being a portable system versus a home console. Further, Nintendo has offered that sort of thing for years, primarily with Pokemon downloads. So it's more built into the userbase.
We know what's coming out and generally have a good idea of what we want to play long before it hits shelves. Why waste time catering to us as a crowd that's informed and educated with a service that will largely be used by us only, when we're already so ahead of the curve?
But hey, argue some more.
We know what's coming out and generally have a good idea of what we want to play long before it hits shelves. Why waste time catering to us as a crowd that's informed and educated with a service that will largely be used by us only, when we're already so ahead of the curve?
But hey, argue some more.
blitz6speed
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The wii hardware isnt designed for demo usage through downloads, and they're too busy making plastic accessories to do new builds of games for demo purposes, package them, distro them, test them, etc. Waste of nintendos time. As long as people are buying a wii + a overpriced bathroom scale, then nintendo doesnt give a flipping crap about you as a gamer.
[quote name='Strell']And how big are the DS demos? It's clear that the DS was designed with that functionality in mind, which I suspect has everything to do with it being a portable system versus a home console. [/QUOTE]
Well the DS only has 4 MB of RAM and no flash memory to store demos, so DS demos would have to be 4 MB or less.
Well the DS only has 4 MB of RAM and no flash memory to store demos, so DS demos would have to be 4 MB or less.
1- I think there was a grand total of one Demo Disk on the cube. The cartridge consoles lacked demos for obvious reasons. Simply put, Nintendo hasn't needed them so far, and probably just doesn't see it as advantageous to them. For the record, I believe I HAVE seen a demo disk for a third party publisher on the Wii at TRU, but it was pure shovelware.
2- Demo disks aren't cheap. Sure, you have to print the disks, and mail them out either via Nintendo Power or through JamPack style store sets. But that's nothing compared to the work in getting game makers to spend their time coding demos instead of games, testing the software to make sure it works properly, getting the legal clearances, etc.
3- The people who really need demo disks to tell them what to buy are exactly the sort of people who have no idea what a demo disk is. The Nintendo Channel, and the accompanying letters to the Wii message board, work far better to target them. A far better solution would be to encourage people to get their Wiis online-- for example, give 500-1000 points out to any Wii that logs into the Shop channel between X and Y dates, and publicize it. Similar methods have been used to get people to help other Wiis online in other regions, and it's also similar to the DSi promotion.
2- Demo disks aren't cheap. Sure, you have to print the disks, and mail them out either via Nintendo Power or through JamPack style store sets. But that's nothing compared to the work in getting game makers to spend their time coding demos instead of games, testing the software to make sure it works properly, getting the legal clearances, etc.
3- The people who really need demo disks to tell them what to buy are exactly the sort of people who have no idea what a demo disk is. The Nintendo Channel, and the accompanying letters to the Wii message board, work far better to target them. A far better solution would be to encourage people to get their Wiis online-- for example, give 500-1000 points out to any Wii that logs into the Shop channel between X and Y dates, and publicize it. Similar methods have been used to get people to help other Wiis online in other regions, and it's also similar to the DSi promotion.
DrumsVocalsKeys
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The Wii caters to the casual gamer who generally for only plays in bursts for a few minutes here and there. I think it would ultimately be in Nintendos worst interest to offer demos. People would probably stop buying the games and just playing the demos for a few minutes and say, "that was fun." I think most of the Wii's audience would find the demo satisfying (think of it as a mini game) and would probably never go to the store to purchase the actual game.
I'm not defending the practice of not offering demos, but I can see the logic behind Nintendos actions.
I'm not defending the practice of not offering demos, but I can see the logic behind Nintendos actions.
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This was an issue of mine like 1.5 years ago. I learned to let it go.
However, I think what they DO need is to have VC & WiiWare demos. That is something they COULD do. Strell is 100% correct about the issue of demos on retail games..but.. demos of games you already download would (and should) be much easier to do.
However, I think what they DO need is to have VC & WiiWare demos. That is something they COULD do. Strell is 100% correct about the issue of demos on retail games..but.. demos of games you already download would (and should) be much easier to do.
[quote name='Strell']And how big are the DS demos? It's clear that the DS was designed with that functionality in mind, which I suspect has everything to do with it being a portable system versus a home console. Further, Nintendo has offered that sort of thing for years, primarily with Pokemon downloads. So it's more built into the userbase.
We know what's coming out and generally have a good idea of what we want to play long before it hits shelves. Why waste time catering to us as a crowd that's informed and educated with a service that will largely be used by us only, when we're already so ahead of the curve?
But hey, argue some more.[/QUOTE]
Huh? You say they don't do demos for reasons A, B, and C. I say I don't agree with C, and your response is "But what about A?" I don't disagree with that, I know there isn't enough space.
We know what's coming out and generally have a good idea of what we want to play long before it hits shelves. Why waste time catering to us as a crowd that's informed and educated with a service that will largely be used by us only, when we're already so ahead of the curve?
But hey, argue some more.[/QUOTE]
Huh? You say they don't do demos for reasons A, B, and C. I say I don't agree with C, and your response is "But what about A?" I don't disagree with that, I know there isn't enough space.
blitz6speed
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[quote name='Strell']Why even bother being in this board if you're just going to troll?[/QUOTE]
Because im a wii owner who doesnt live in la-la land and knows the realities of nintendo? Im a gamer who loves games, but not blind to see what nintendo really cares about.
Because im a wii owner who doesnt live in la-la land and knows the realities of nintendo? Im a gamer who loves games, but not blind to see what nintendo really cares about.
pochaccoheaven
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you do have demos on the wii. it's the video demos you watch on that wii channel where they give updates on upcoming game releases.
johnnypark
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[quote name='pochaccoheaven']you do have demos on the wii. it's the video demos you watch on that wii channel where they give updates on upcoming game releases.[/QUOTE]
That's something you can get on Youtube, though. Playable demos for downloadable games that can't be rented, etc should be standard.
That's something you can get on Youtube, though. Playable demos for downloadable games that can't be rented, etc should be standard.
Temporaryscars
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If the Wii let you try games before you bought them then they would never sell any games.
pochaccoheaven
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[quote name='johnnypark']That's something you can get on Youtube, though. Playable demos for downloadable games that can't be rented, etc should be standard.[/QUOTE]
demos doesn't necessarily means hands-on. in festivals and carnivals you often find those product sales man who "demos" the products for you to have an understanding of what the product can do. so basically the guy had a misunderstanding of what demos meant. you can basically close and shut this post down because the wii has video demos and regardless if they're hands on or not, they are still demos.
btw, it should not be a standard because doing so will just waste time for developing the game even further. developers have the time for developing the games and once that's done they'd have to develop an alteration of the game to be playable as a hands on demo and that's extra time and money.
demos doesn't necessarily means hands-on. in festivals and carnivals you often find those product sales man who "demos" the products for you to have an understanding of what the product can do. so basically the guy had a misunderstanding of what demos meant. you can basically close and shut this post down because the wii has video demos and regardless if they're hands on or not, they are still demos.
btw, it should not be a standard because doing so will just waste time for developing the game even further. developers have the time for developing the games and once that's done they'd have to develop an alteration of the game to be playable as a hands on demo and that's extra time and money.
If they threw a bunch of demos onto a best selling 1st party game--->Wii Play
This would expose casual gamers to some awesome games they may not be aware of, drive 3rd party sales, and also take a mediocre package and greatly increase the value.
I feel they missed a huge chance to generate some giant sales by not putting demos on the discs of their major games.
The Wii sports, and the upcoming sports resorts would also be great chances for demos. The advertisement/awareness alone is a proven strategy.
This would expose casual gamers to some awesome games they may not be aware of, drive 3rd party sales, and also take a mediocre package and greatly increase the value.
I feel they missed a huge chance to generate some giant sales by not putting demos on the discs of their major games.
The Wii sports, and the upcoming sports resorts would also be great chances for demos. The advertisement/awareness alone is a proven strategy.
VioletArrows
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[quote name='pochaccoheaven']demos doesn't necessarily means hands-on. in festivals and carnivals you often find those product sales man who "demos" the products for you to have an understanding of what the product can do. so basically the guy had a misunderstanding of what demos meant. you can basically close and shut this post down because the wii has video demos and regardless if they're hands on or not, they are still demos.
btw, it should not be a standard because doing so will just waste time for developing the game even further. developers have the time for developing the games and once that's done they'd have to develop an alteration of the game to be playable as a hands on demo and that's extra time and money.[/QUOTE]
That is a terrible (or ironically apt) analogy, considering things that you buy at those places are generally shit and are not worth the money, but are dressed up to be interesting and sell. :/
And videos show what the game's about, not how it "works". Too many times in my earlier days as a gamer I've bought games that look great and interesting in the video, and play like a frustrating, horrible mess and there goes my money down the toilet. I very rarely bother with videos unless they're more than the 5 minute "best parts we could think of" demos.
And not spending what, an extra week, packaging the first two levels as a demo that could possibly cement my love for a game versus skipping it and ensuring I don't care about it no matter how good it is? Yeah.
btw, it should not be a standard because doing so will just waste time for developing the game even further. developers have the time for developing the games and once that's done they'd have to develop an alteration of the game to be playable as a hands on demo and that's extra time and money.[/QUOTE]
That is a terrible (or ironically apt) analogy, considering things that you buy at those places are generally shit and are not worth the money, but are dressed up to be interesting and sell. :/
And videos show what the game's about, not how it "works". Too many times in my earlier days as a gamer I've bought games that look great and interesting in the video, and play like a frustrating, horrible mess and there goes my money down the toilet. I very rarely bother with videos unless they're more than the 5 minute "best parts we could think of" demos.
And not spending what, an extra week, packaging the first two levels as a demo that could possibly cement my love for a game versus skipping it and ensuring I don't care about it no matter how good it is? Yeah.
johnnypark
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[quote name='vherub']If they threw a bunch of demos onto a best selling 1st party game--->Wii Play
This would expose casual gamers to some awesome games they may not be aware of, drive 3rd party sales, and also take a mediocre package and greatly increase the value.
I feel they missed a huge chance to generate some giant sales by not putting demos on the discs of their major games.
The Wii sports, and the upcoming sports resorts would also be great chances for demos. The advertisement/awareness alone is a proven strategy.[/QUOTE]
EA does exactly that for PS3 (and 360?) and it works great, especially for users without internet connections. The distribution is harder on the Wii, but including demos on a disc seems like an easy enough idea.
[quote name='seanr1221']I know a guy who worked on Madden for years. Demos don't take a ton of time.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if that counts, since every Madden game from the past 10 years looks identical to me
This would expose casual gamers to some awesome games they may not be aware of, drive 3rd party sales, and also take a mediocre package and greatly increase the value.
I feel they missed a huge chance to generate some giant sales by not putting demos on the discs of their major games.
The Wii sports, and the upcoming sports resorts would also be great chances for demos. The advertisement/awareness alone is a proven strategy.[/QUOTE]
EA does exactly that for PS3 (and 360?) and it works great, especially for users without internet connections. The distribution is harder on the Wii, but including demos on a disc seems like an easy enough idea.
[quote name='seanr1221']I know a guy who worked on Madden for years. Demos don't take a ton of time.[/QUOTE]
I don't know if that counts, since every Madden game from the past 10 years looks identical to me
:lol: regardless he explained the process to me. When a game is finished, it would take a couple guys at EA a week at most to make a demo. Nintendo fans are getting hosed and the excuses don't help. There's really no reason there aren't demos for games, especially VC games.
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RelentlessRolento
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theflicker
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I don't really care about demos. I mean, I download them all the time on my PS3, but I pretty much never play them.
So, it's not really an issue for me.
So, it's not really an issue for me.
pochaccoheaven
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[quote name='VioletArrows']That is a terrible (or ironically apt) analogy, considering things that you buy at those places are generally shit and are not worth the money, but are dressed up to be interesting and sell. :/
And videos show what the game's about, not how it "works". Too many times in my earlier days as a gamer I've bought games that look great and interesting in the video, and play like a frustrating, horrible mess and there goes my money down the toilet. I very rarely bother with videos unless they're more than the 5 minute "best parts we could think of" demos.
And not spending what, an extra week, packaging the first two levels as a demo that could possibly cement my love for a game versus skipping it and ensuring I don't care about it no matter how good it is? Yeah.[/QUOTE]
did you not see that namco muscle game for the wii in japan video?
http://kotaku.com/5255219/muscle-men-bikinis-wtf
in the video, there is a section where it demonstrates to you the controls of the game as well as other info about the game. did you also happen to notice that the video didn't lasted longer then what you asked for, 5 minutes, but 1.08 minutes.
if you bought a game and it sucks then you know what you do? gamestop it baby or even better, craigslist it. you know what, you can even cheap ass gamer it in the trades section of the forum to your fellow suckers on the messageboard. problem solved. i don't understand the problem.
btw, it tells you above statement the purpose of gamestop. lol!
And videos show what the game's about, not how it "works". Too many times in my earlier days as a gamer I've bought games that look great and interesting in the video, and play like a frustrating, horrible mess and there goes my money down the toilet. I very rarely bother with videos unless they're more than the 5 minute "best parts we could think of" demos.
And not spending what, an extra week, packaging the first two levels as a demo that could possibly cement my love for a game versus skipping it and ensuring I don't care about it no matter how good it is? Yeah.[/QUOTE]
did you not see that namco muscle game for the wii in japan video?
http://kotaku.com/5255219/muscle-men-bikinis-wtf
in the video, there is a section where it demonstrates to you the controls of the game as well as other info about the game. did you also happen to notice that the video didn't lasted longer then what you asked for, 5 minutes, but 1.08 minutes.
if you bought a game and it sucks then you know what you do? gamestop it baby or even better, craigslist it. you know what, you can even cheap ass gamer it in the trades section of the forum to your fellow suckers on the messageboard. problem solved. i don't understand the problem.
btw, it tells you above statement the purpose of gamestop. lol!
Temporaryscars
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You download them...and don't play them??
Uh...ok...
Uh...ok...
Temporaryscars
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So why download them?
VioletArrows
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[quote name='pochaccoheaven']
if you bought a game and it sucks then you know what you do? gamestop it baby or even better, craigslist it. you know what, you can even cheap ass gamer it in the trades section of the forum to your fellow suckers on the messageboard. problem solved. i don't understand the problem.
btw, it tells you above statement the purpose of gamestop. lol![/QUOTE]
You can't get refunds or sell WW, VC, XBLA, PSN, Steam, or most PC/MMO games. And Steam has INTERACTIVE DEMOS so you can play it before you buy it.
If you think a video that gives you a best of in a minute or less is enough for you to buy it, that's good on you. Been down that road too many times.
if you bought a game and it sucks then you know what you do? gamestop it baby or even better, craigslist it. you know what, you can even cheap ass gamer it in the trades section of the forum to your fellow suckers on the messageboard. problem solved. i don't understand the problem.
btw, it tells you above statement the purpose of gamestop. lol![/QUOTE]
You can't get refunds or sell WW, VC, XBLA, PSN, Steam, or most PC/MMO games. And Steam has INTERACTIVE DEMOS so you can play it before you buy it.
If you think a video that gives you a best of in a minute or less is enough for you to buy it, that's good on you. Been down that road too many times.
[quote name='vherub']aggh! that's disastrous- selling a demo disc preys on people who don't know better, angers everyone else and undermines the very foundation of what a demo is.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, someone really should've told the magazines that charge more because they include a demo disk, or those atrocious jampacks, or that time I had to buy a pizza from pizza hut to get a demo disk.
Oh wait, demo disks have basically always been sold? Wow!
Yeah, someone really should've told the magazines that charge more because they include a demo disk, or those atrocious jampacks, or that time I had to buy a pizza from pizza hut to get a demo disk.
Oh wait, demo disks have basically always been sold? Wow!
theflicker
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[quote name='Temporaryscars']So why download them?[/QUOTE]
Because I think I'll play them? I just wind up playing actual games I have instead.
Because I think I'll play them? I just wind up playing actual games I have instead.
[quote name='Strell']No demo discs because they are stubborn and set in their ways, and would most likely view it as a waste of time and resources being devoted to a making a demo instead of just finishing the game.[/quote]
seems to me with Nintendo's attitude they probably would make demos so convoluted somehow it would detract from finishing the game. haha. what if you had to exchange friend codes with the server.. ahhhh.. well I thought it was funny.
[quote name='Strell'] Further, their answer to this is the Nintendo Channel, since you'll get videos and whatnot there. If anyone is going to make them, it would have to be from a third party, and they'd have to mastermind the whole thing.[/QUOTE]isn't this kinda what they did with Tetris Party where you could send a demo to a friend. not a perfect solution but at the least it's a 'proof of concept'. Of course it does require someone to buy the game and then send it off to people but it's something.
seems to me with Nintendo's attitude they probably would make demos so convoluted somehow it would detract from finishing the game. haha. what if you had to exchange friend codes with the server.. ahhhh.. well I thought it was funny.
[quote name='Strell'] Further, their answer to this is the Nintendo Channel, since you'll get videos and whatnot there. If anyone is going to make them, it would have to be from a third party, and they'd have to mastermind the whole thing.[/QUOTE]isn't this kinda what they did with Tetris Party where you could send a demo to a friend. not a perfect solution but at the least it's a 'proof of concept'. Of course it does require someone to buy the game and then send it off to people but it's something.
bread's done