Why am I burnt out on RPGs/JRPGs?

Wolfpup

Wolfpup

CAGiversary!
This is weird for me because mid-90s, Japanese RPGs were my favorite genre...though that may have been helped by most of the games I loved being made by Sakaguchi, or translated by Working Designs, or brought over by Nintendo or Sega.

It also used to be that I had SOOOOO few games-so few games I even WANTED to play, and less money to buy them with. Now? There's a dozen games a month I want to play it seems like, and my backlog is over 100 games (well over 100 games I think). While length used to be a blessing, if a game is fun and over in 6 hours, I'm kind of thrilled (and usually keep it!)

Story? I feel like aside form Sakaguchi's stuff, Japanese RPGs don't have good stories compared with other genres now...the typical FPS is a lot more compelling to me, versus "mute 15 year old protagonist meets up with random buddies to go save the world that for some reason only he can save".

Fetch quests. Oh, how I abhor fetch quests. I do not NOT want to feel like a game is just a series of software triggers to activate the next part of the game...and most JRPGs feel like this to me.

I liked Super Paper Mario. I love Mario & Luigi 2. I loved Sakaguchi's Lost Odyssey. But other than that?

I got burnt out on Dragon Quest 8. Burnt out on Dragon Quest 4 (the latter especially just felt like a series of triggers to activate the next part of the gameplay...I'd have more fun walking down a straight line and buying gear and whacking the bad guys).

Got burnt out on Glory of Hercules...which, from the little I played, wasn't really BAD, but had a clunky interface, and just didn't grab me in 5 hours. I mean some other games I'm FINISHED with in 5 hours, but these RPGs don't even grab me in that length of time.

Got burnt out trying to get through Chono Cross again...gave up way earlier than the first time.

Got burnt out trying to get through Suekoden again, and again, way earlier than I gave up the first time (played it this time on the PSN release on PSP).

I'm still being attracted to these games...probably stupidly bought Y's 1 and 2 and Tactics Ogre for PSP today, and there are several more RPGs I want in the next couple of months.

I don't know...I used to love these so much that its hard for me to let go, I guess.

Maybe I should just limit myself to Sakaguchi's games and the twice a decade Final Fantasy releases, and Paper Mario/Mario & Luigi...'cause those are the only one's I like anymore :whistle2:/
 
FF and Sakaguchi don't come out too often, as you mentioned -- so you're best bet is to dabble in things you haven't tried before.

SRPGs like Valkyria? Maybe some of the remakes on PSP or DS? Check out either Persona 3 or 4? There's stuff out there, and JRPGs are pretty long, you only need 1 to keep you busy.

Tactics Ogre is very good, by the way.
 
I'm in the same boat. JRPG's just haven't been the same. I say that the pinnacle was Lost Odyssey and the genre died, for me at least, with Final Fantasy XIII.

I'd love to have my mind changed, but nothing has been able to recapture the same feel as the old days (FF6 to FFX, Grandia, Chrono games, etc.).
 
[quote name='chubbyninja1319']I'm in the same boat. JRPG's just haven't been the same. I say that the pinnacle was Lost Odyssey and the genre died, for me at least, with Final Fantasy XIII.

I'd love to have my mind changed, but nothing has been able to recapture the same feel as the old days (FF6 to FFX, Grandia, Chrono games, etc.).[/QUOTE]

Tales of Vesperia.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']This is weird for me because mid-90s, Japanese RPGs were my favorite genre...though that may have been helped by most of the games I loved being made by Sakaguchi, or translated by Working Designs, or brought over by Nintendo or Sega.

It also used to be that I had SOOOOO few games-so few games I even WANTED to play, and less money to buy them with. Now? There's a dozen games a month I want to play it seems like, and my backlog is over 100 games (well over 100 games I think). While length used to be a blessing, if a game is fun and over in 6 hours, I'm kind of thrilled (and usually keep it!)

Story? I feel like aside form Sakaguchi's stuff, Japanese RPGs don't have good stories compared with other genres now...the typical FPS is a lot more compelling to me, versus "mute 15 year old protagonist meets up with random buddies to go save the world that for some reason only he can save".

Fetch quests. Oh, how I abhor fetch quests. I do not NOT want to feel like a game is just a series of software triggers to activate the next part of the game...and most JRPGs feel like this to me.

I liked Super Paper Mario. I love Mario & Luigi 2. I loved Sakaguchi's Lost Odyssey. But other than that?

I got burnt out on Dragon Quest 8. Burnt out on Dragon Quest 4 (the latter especially just felt like a series of triggers to activate the next part of the gameplay...I'd have more fun walking down a straight line and buying gear and whacking the bad guys).

Got burnt out on Glory of Hercules...which, from the little I played, wasn't really BAD, but had a clunky interface, and just didn't grab me in 5 hours. I mean some other games I'm FINISHED with in 5 hours, but these RPGs don't even grab me in that length of time.

Got burnt out trying to get through Chono Cross again...gave up way earlier than the first time.

Got burnt out trying to get through Suekoden again, and again, way earlier than I gave up the first time (played it this time on the PSN release on PSP).

I'm still being attracted to these games...probably stupidly bought Y's 1 and 2 and Tactics Ogre for PSP today, and there are several more RPGs I want in the next couple of months.

I don't know...I used to love these so much that its hard for me to let go, I guess.

Maybe I should just limit myself to Sakaguchi's games and the twice a decade Final Fantasy releases, and Paper Mario/Mario & Luigi...'cause those are the only one's I like anymore :whistle2:/[/QUOTE]

We got older, man. It made more sense to us at 12 that we were playing as teenage characters saving the world. In our 20s, seeing 5'4", skinny 15 year olds picking up a sword for the first time? Not so much. Factor in the young emotional issues (insecurity, indecision, etc), and you have an archetype that may not stick with you as you grow up.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']We got older, man. It made more sense to us at 12 that we were playing as teenage characters saving the world. In our 20s, seeing 5'4", skinny 15 year olds picking up a sword for the first time? Not so much. Factor in the young emotional issues (insecurity, indecision, etc), and you have an archetype that may not stick with you as you grow up.[/QUOTE]

No, I dont think we got older. Gaming Did. Japanese gaming companies that released the best and most imaginative RPGS died. They all felt the pressure of keeping up with the american mega blockbuster release FPS that they changed the way rpgs played. The genre died more when the big RPGS that made it in america started involving funs more and more. Games like Fall out and Borderlands were tagged as "rpgs" but in reality they were just gun game FPS with a roll system. Since then Jap RPGS have died and for the most part no body take chances.

It took a tug a pull and a nut removal to get Tales of Graces over here even.
 
Perhaps this spin will be helpful.

I've been playing JRPGs pretty much since contraception (pretty much Wizardry gameplay-wise). Not only did they used to be hard that didn't require grinding out the rear end to beat (Dragon Quest...), but they had all sorts of fantastic ideas and imagination behind them.

(EDIT: Rogue and MUDs existed before this, so I'm technically wrong - hooray for me!)

Now it seems to be about story, graphics, and marketing strategies. I think JRPGs have been going downwards since the PS1 days, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some really awesome titles out there to find (Etrian Odyssey III: The Drowned City, Disgaea: Hour of Darkness, Tales of Vesperia).

I would share your sentiments exactly if it wasn't for a few games. However, I incredibly enjoy the few very good JRPGs that I find and that's really not bad IMHO when I sit down and think about it. Why not try looking for a JRPG that's more about gameplay than story and see if that changes your mind? This is only an opinion, and I'd be glad to answer any question you may have!
 
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It's easy to get tired of mediocrity. We have yet to see an amazing JRPG this generation. The genre is stuck in a rut right now. Something that FPS games will face soon as well. Hopefully something great awaits in the horizon.
 
I was going to agree with you but:

[quote name='Wolfpup'] Burnt out on Dragon Quest 4 (the latter especially just felt like a series of triggers to activate the next part of the gameplay...I'd have more fun walking down a straight line and buying gear and whacking the bad guys).
[/QUOTE]

This, sir, is a fail.

At any rate, the overall quality of JRPGs has sucked this generation. Very few have even been worth playing at all other than remakes or enhanced ports. The only original JRPG this gen that I would consider a classic is Valkyria Chronicles. Pretty much every other one has been a "play and trade" kind of deal. Play through it once and then trade because I'd never play it again due to mediocrity. I think there's maybe a couple original ones I've kept other than VC (Opoona, Wizard of Oz, and Half Minute Hero, but though Half Minute Hero is awesome, it isn't really a true JRPG). Even some of the remakes/ports have been shit (Lunar PSP). I find myself replaying old classics but I've gone through them all already in the past couple years. It really sucks to be a JRPG fan this gen.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']It's easy to get tired of mediocrity. We have yet to see an amazing JRPG this generation. The genre is stuck in a rut right now. Something that FPS games will face soon as well. Hopefully something great awaits in the horizon.[/QUOTE]

I would have agreed if it wasn't for one game (EO3). Heck, many people don't even realize how good the Tales of...games that were never released overseas actually are either (and Innocence wasn't the example I was referring to). Thankfully, they will soon get an idea.

The overall quality of JRPGs does stink this generation - I completely agree with that. That doesn't mean that they don't exist - they are just buried in the swampy muck.
 
JRPGs are very long, samey, and you seem to be playing a lot of mediocre ones. I've been trying to stick to the AAA ones to keep from wanting to give up on the genre entirely.
 
Like most people said already rpg's haven't changed in over a decade. The gameplay and story's really haven't changed at all. there's really no unique rpg this generation. Lost Odyssey was good but nothing special.One of my favorites from this generation so far is Resonance of Fate. Has a unique battle system,but it turned off a lot of people off by the learning curve and high difficulty. Great game if anyone wants something different.
 
[quote name='Wolfpup']Story? I feel like aside form Sakaguchi's stuff, Japanese RPGs don't have good stories compared with other genres now...the typical FPS is a lot more compelling to me, versus "mute 15 year old protagonist meets up with random buddies to go save the world that for some reason only he can save".
[/QUOTE]

I think this is one of the answers to your own question, and not one that I entirely agree with. I can't think of many genres that have better stories than RPGs (anyone who says that these games are all the same isn't paying attention; that'd be as foolish as me saying that all FPSes are the same). Anywho, it's about changing tastes and finding what games are worth your time.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']We got older, man. [/QUOTE]

This is probably the biggest reason why it's so hard to play RPGs as they're so time consuming and free time goes down as you get older.

Of course, as JRPGs have seriously gone downhill in the past decade, western RPGs have definitely picked up the slack. They're much more versatile as you can spend as little as 20 hours to beat the game or 80 hours to finish everything. The stories are better too... none of that "feminine guy has feelings hurt and decides to save the world" crap (well, I guess the "save the world" part is still true). Fallout 3, Mass Effect 1/2, Borderlands and Dragon Age are all fantastic games.

BTW, Chrono Cross was an awesome game as long as you remember that it's not Chrono Trigger 2. It's an alternate timeline, effected by the events of CT, and more complicated, which probably threw a lot of people off.
 
WRPGs have gotten better? 0_o.

And what's with the 15 year old with a big sword cliche everyone is complaining about? Like, what games are you talking about? It's 2011.

I mean, lets just put JRPGs and WRPGs side by side this gen and see exactly how far behind the east is.

Mass Effect - Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 2 - Persona 4
Fallout 3 - Final Fantasy XIII
Fable III - Valkyria Chronicles
Dragon Age - Demon Souls
Witcher - Tales of Vesperia
Oblivion - a dozen or so great handheld JRPGs, but those don't count?

You guys are incredibly pessimistic. RPGs from the East and West are always 99% shit or are released very gradually. I don't see either side going downhill -- instead I see both evolving, trying new things, and still coming out with great games.

I wouldn't call new age JRPGs bad in any sense, fair enough if they aren't your cup of tea. Some fans of old Black Isle games probably see games like Mass Effect as targeted towards little kids -- it goes both ways.
 
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For me the length has a lot to do with not putting up with mediocre bullshit. A 5 hour so-so FPS is a lot harder to swallow than a 40 hour so-so JRPG.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']WRPGs have gotten better? 0_o.

And what's with the 15 year old with a big sword cliche everyone is complaining about? Like, what games are you talking about? It's 2011.

I mean, lets just put JRPGs and WRPGs side by side this gen and see exactly how far behind the east is.

Mass Effect - Lost Odyssey
Mass Effect 2 - Persona 4
Fallout 3 - Final Fantasy XIII
Fable III - Valkyria Chronicles
Dragon Age - Demon Souls
Witcher - Tales of Vesperia
Oblivion - a dozen or so great handheld JRPGs, but those don't count?

You guys are incredibly pessimistic. RPGs from the East and West are always 99% shit or are released very gradually. I don't see either side going downhill -- instead I see both evolving, trying new things, and still coming out with great games.

I wouldn't call new age JRPGs bad in any sense, fair enough if they aren't your cup of tea. Some fans of old Black Isle games probably see games like Mass Effect as targeted towards little kids -- it goes both ways.[/QUOTE]

The way I feel is that WRPGs have improved compared to last gen, whereas good JRPGs are a lot harder to find nowadays. Although I agree with you about handhelds. JRPGs are still thriving on handhelds. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that big console JRPGs are just too expensive to make relative to the amount that they will sell here in the West. WRPGs have become a lot more popular this gen. I'm fine with less JRPGs though as long as there are a few great ones, and in my opinion there are. Lost Odyssey may just be my favorite JRPG ever.
 
Yeah but I mean, the ones I listed, they are pretty on par with whatever WRPG that has come out as well. Dragon Age is no Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect was no KOTOR, but they are still great games.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']Yeah but I mean, the ones I listed, they are pretty on par with whatever WRPG that has come out as well. Dragon Age is no Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect was no KOTOR, but they are still great games.[/QUOTE]

I disagree about your second point as I like modern WRPGs better than old WRPGs for the most part, but I don't disagree that JRPGs are on par with WRPGs. My point is just that good JRPGs used to outnumber good WRPGs by far, and now they don't.
 
We got a lot more games from Compile Heart and Idea Factory, which explains the drop in quality. As for WRPG we havent seen much outside of Bioware, Bethesda, and maybe Lionhead and just about none on handheld. There are dozens of JRPG, developers, with 3 new games this month alone.
 
There's some good JRPGs this gen, but they're all on handhelds which are easier and cheaper to make, so less of a risk. The PS2 era was a high water mark for JRPGs.

Persona 3-4
Crimson Gem Saga
Hexyz Force
DQ Remakes
Radiant Historia (Haven't played it yet, but the impressions and reviews are favorable)

Granted, DoK is right in that most of the todays best games are remakes and ports, but I don't have a problem with that.
 
[quote name='ihadFG']The way I feel is that WRPGs have improved compared to last gen, whereas good JRPGs are a lot harder to find nowadays. Although I agree with you about handhelds. JRPGs are still thriving on handhelds. I think this has a lot to do with the fact that big console JRPGs are just too expensive to make relative to the amount that they will sell here in the West. WRPGs have become a lot more popular this gen. I'm fine with less JRPGs though as long as there are a few great ones, and in my opinion there are. Lost Odyssey may just be my favorite JRPG ever.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='panzerfaust']Yeah but I mean, the ones I listed, they are pretty on par with whatever WRPG that has come out as well. Dragon Age is no Baldur's Gate and Mass Effect was no KOTOR, but they are still great games.[/QUOTE]

I think ihadFG summed it up well. The JRPGs market is pretty saturated... for every 10 mediocre JRPGs, there's 1 great one. I never said there aren't any good JRPGs but lets be honest, the glory days of SNES/PS1 JRPGs are long gone. The handheld market is pretty much the same as well: plenty of mediocre titles, a few great titles.

I actually hated WRPGs last gen... mainly because they were so fucking glitchy. There's still some games with issues (Oblivion, Fallout 3 GotY) but most of them are great games.

I'll say that I do think JRPGs are showing signs of improvement. FFXIII showed even SE has some talent and can do something new (though there was plenty of retardedness there: summons that turn into vehicles, too linear, inconsistent difficulty, Hope). And smaller companies like From Software and Atlus (the rare occasion when they do make a game) are usually good.
 
Some good points made on both sides, but I think panzerfaust hit it on the head. Both WRPGs and JRPGs are trying new things. When you see CoD games making ridiculous amounts of money, of course you're going to try and get into some of that. It just makes business sense.
And there have been some good games this gen.
Tales of Vesperia
Valykria Chronicles
Lost Odyssey
And plus there are even more like the Etrian Odyssey's and such that particular people like and certain people don't.

One thing is for sure though, we are missing THE JRPG of this generation. Much like FFVII was last gen. Say what you will about the game, it got alot of people into the RPG's. I feel like there has been like a great game to pull people in. But I think it's on the horizon for sure.


Oh and to get too off topic but did anyone notice this while reading through the thread?

[quote name='rockykai']

I've been playing JRPGs pretty much since contraception[/QUOTE]
 
The best RPGs I've played the last 3 years have been games I missed from previous generations (most better than what's come out for this gen). The last great JRPG of this gen was Vesperia way back in 08', It's been slim pickings since then.

We'll continue to see plenty of good RPGs for handhelds, but aside from Deus Ex, Xillia and ME3 I think the consoles have a bleak future.
 
[quote name='Vinny']I think ihadFG summed it up well. The JRPGs market is pretty saturated... for every 10 mediocre JRPGs, there's 1 great one. I never said there aren't any good JRPGs but lets be honest, the glory days of SNES/PS1 JRPGs are long gone. The handheld market is pretty much the same as well: plenty of mediocre titles, a few great titles.

I actually hated WRPGs last gen... mainly because they were so fucking glitchy. There's still some games with issues (Oblivion, Fallout 3 GotY) but most of them are great games.

I'll say that I do think JRPGs are showing signs of improvement. FFXIII showed even SE has some talent and can do something new (though there was plenty of retardedness there: summons that turn into vehicles, too linear, inconsistent difficulty, Hope). And smaller companies like From Software and Atlus (the rare occasion when they do make a game) are usually good.[/QUOTE]

Yeah the market gets saturated, but when you weed through it all you still end up with JRPGs matching WRPGs game for game. Do they match in quality? I think so. It's a matter of opinion but I don't think a reasonable person could stray too far way from that conclusion without sounding hugely biased. Slower than last gen? Sure, but nothing that justifies condemning either genre.

And I think we can all accept the fact that Square Enix will never be able to release an FF that's whole heartedly embraced by the online community. People hold way too strong of a grudge against that name. It will be fun in a few years when all the FFXIII fanboys flood the internet, I already see fans of XII are much more common compared to when it was the worst game ever made.

The pool of gamer generations just keeps getting bigger :rofl:
 
[quote name='chibamm']

One thing is for sure though, we are missing THE JRPG of this generation. Much like FFVII was last gen. Say what you will about the game, it got alot of people into the RPG's. I feel like there has been like a great game to pull people in. But I think it's on the horizon for sure.[/QUOTE]

I actually feel like holding out for a game like this is a bad thing. When you put too much emphasis on a be-all-end-all game, you lose sight of the fact that gaming is very different nowadays than it was back then. FFVII was popular because it was a lot of people's first RPG. That can't happen twice to a person. I think the best JRPGs this generation are no worse (and possibly better) than the best JRPGs of previous generations. They are just far less numerous.
 
[quote name='ihadFG']I actually feel like holding out for a game like this is a bad thing. When you put too much emphasis on a be-all-end-all game, you lose sight of the fact that gaming is very different nowadays than it was back then. FFVII was popular because it was a lot of people's first RPG. That can't happen twice to a person. I think the best JRPGs this generation are no worse (and possibly better) than the best JRPGs of previous generations. They are just far less numerous.[/QUOTE]


I'm not saying holding out for that one particular game. That just doesn't even really make any sense. Also, "happen twice to a person". I'm talking about more people getting into JRPG's. Not the people that are already into the genre and pay attention to releases and such. The game that everyone is buzzing about.

Also, I had this sort of revelation now. So video games in the grand scheme of things is still pretty young. Gaming has been going on for about 30 some odd years. But now you have this generational gap in gamers, with the feel for nostalgia with older games, plots, etc. Now I liken this gap in gamers to sports fans. With sports you always have these arguments about the best of all time or this generation's best player versus last generations best player. Kobe vs. Jordan for example.
But one thing I've picked up on in sports is that it is unfair to compare generations because the game EVOLVES. Baseball was entirely different in the 1940's to today. Same with almost any sport.
Now, I think it is up to the individual to both understand and appreciate what happened in the past as well as to enjoy the current.
I like to believe that the Japanese developers are trying to adjust and what to enteratin us Westerners. I think they are making a step in the right direction with Vesperia and even Resonance of Fate.

This conversation has definitely snow balled into a bigger thing though. The most simple answer is if you're tired of it, don't play it. Everything is good in moderation my friend. Never feel like you "have to play" a game, that takes all the fun out of it. You should be itching to play that game, that's what why we spend our hard earned dollars for, right?
 
[quote name='chibamm']I'm not saying holding out for that one particular game. That just doesn't even really make any sense. Also, "happen twice to a person". I'm talking about more people getting into JRPG's. Not the people that are already into the genre and pay attention to releases and such. The game that everyone is buzzing about.
[/QUOTE]

But what I'm saying is there isn't as much potential to pull people in that aren't already into RPGs, because FFVII already did that. And now such a huge portion of gamers have already played at least a couple RPGs that I don't expect a game to come along and take everyone by storm. Also, there isn't really another technological leap forward this gen as big as the leap from 2D to 3D was, so it would be hard to make a game that somehow draws in an overwhelming amount of new people to the genre. It wasn't FFVII's quality alone that drew people in.
 
[quote name='ihadFG']But what I'm saying is there isn't as much potential to pull people in that aren't already into RPGs, because FFVII already did that. And now such a huge portion of gamers have already played at least a couple RPGs that I don't expect a game to come along and take everyone by storm. Also, there isn't really another technological leap forward this gen as big as the leap from 2D to 3D was, so it would be hard to make a game that somehow draws in an overwhelming amount of new people to the genre. It wasn't FFVII's quality alone that drew people in.[/QUOTE]


You're still not counting a new generation of gamers. Kids 16 and under. Sure, they might have played a RPG but there hasn't been that mass appeal JRPG like FFVII was.
 
[quote name='chibamm']You're still not counting a new generation of gamers. Kids 16 and under. Sure, they might have played a RPG but there hasn't been that mass appeal JRPG like FFVII was.[/QUOTE]

Kingdom Hearts
 
[quote name='chibamm']You're still not counting a new generation of gamers. Kids 16 and under. Sure, they might have played a RPG but there hasn't been that mass appeal JRPG like FFVII was.[/QUOTE]

But the problem is this generation already had its mass appeal RPG, Mass Effect 2 or one might argue Fallout 3, its just neither were JRPGs. Of course maybe Mass Effect 3 will top even those sales numbers, the point is though those games alone probably pulled in tons of gamers that don't typically play RPGs, except chances are gamers that weren't interested in RPGs before will either continue to be disinterested or will look to WRPGs that are similar.
 
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[quote name='icebeast']But the problem is this generation already had its mass appeal RPG, Mass Effect 2 or one might argue Fallout 3, its just neither were JRPGs. Of course maybe Mass Effect 3 will top even those sales numbers, the point is though those games alone probably pulled in tons of gamers that don't typically play RPGs, except chances are gamers that weren't interested in RPGs before will either continue to be disinterested or will look to WRPGs that are similar.[/QUOTE]

Yep. And the thing is back when FFVII came out there weren't that many different generations of gamers. So when that reached gamers at the time, it reached ALL gamers (or at least the majority). Nowadays, reaching gamers 16 and under is only a small portion of the overall demographic, so making an RPG to get them into RPGs isn't going to have the same effect as FFVII did. Not everyone is going to be buzzing about it in the same way. Mass appeal is a lot harder when the mass is so much more diverse.
 
I was really big on them as a kid growing up playing Final Fantasy 1, 2 (4), 3 (6), Secret of Mana, Chrono Trigger, Earthbound, Dragon Warrior 1,2,3,4, Crystalis, etc. I really enjoyed them. They really got stale on last generation for me. I just lost interest. The games drew on too much. The stories dragged. The characters weren't memorable. Since this gen, I got talked into playing Mass Effect (started with #2) and I felt like the game dragged at times feeling like the same thing over and over (recruit member, make them loyal, repeat) i.e. fetch missions. I will most likely play ME3 but plan to stay away from the others. They just don't have the same spark as they once did.

I think it mainly has to do with games nowadays from other genres having better stories with interesting characters in a shorter gameplay experience (i.e. not dragging).
 
I never got much into JRPGs. Don't dig the stories much, hate turn based combat etc.

I've gotten more into WRPGs this gen with games like Mass Effect 1 & 2, Oblivion, Fallout 3. I really only like ones that have mostly real time combat, and not the turn based auto combat stuff like in KOTOR or Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age etc.

I do get burnt out on them though as they're such huge time sinks and take me ages to get through most of the time since I usually only game 5-10 hours a week. So I tend to play through one and then take a 6 month or so break before getting to another one.
 
I don't think you can compare WRPGs to JRPGs. They are a completely different animals.

WRPGs thrive on immersing the player in a wide open game world. They encourage you to do whatever you want. The player is always in control. He or she has total control, over the character appearance, behavior, the pace of the game and ultimately how the story unfolds and the game plays. All this factors are depended on the player. In other words WRPGs are all about you. The success of a WRPG is based on whether a developer has the ability to provide the player with the necessary tools and a compelling universe for the player to amuse himself (like kids in a sandlot).

JRPGs are like books. They strive to immerse you in their world and story. They have a story to tell and like most good stories they are told in a linear fashion. You play as the protagonist and watch the story unfold from a third person perspective, in almost a movie like experience. You have no control over how the character looks or behaves. Thus the player lacks the same level of control as in a WRPG. However, this is not a necessarily a bad thing. For most people this lack of control leads to a greater level of immersion and seeing the story unfold becomes the focal point. By the same token, if the player doesn't connect with the main character or the story the game falls flat. IMO this is what's been happening this generation. JRPGs are failing to connect with their userbase.
 
[quote name='kill3r7'] By the same token, if the player doesn't connect with the main character or the story the game falls flat. IMO this is what's been happening this generation. JRPGs are failing to connect with their userbase.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's any different in the past. JRPGs have always been a niche genre in the US, with only a few like Final Fantasy selling millions of copies.

It just seems like an even smaller niche as gaming has went more mainstream as it hasn't grown while other genre's have taken off in the mainstream.

They'll always be niche unless they get away from the anime style art design and stories as that type of thing will never sell in huge numbers to the mainstream with some Final Fantasy like exceptions of course.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I don't think it's any different in the past. JRPGs have always been a niche genre in the US, with only a few like Final Fantasy selling millions of copies.[/QUOTE]

Whether JRPGs are a niche genre is debatable but at least here on CAG the majority of us have played and enjoyed them for decades. The question remains...what has changed this generation? Personally, this generation, I find the stories have hit rock bottom. There is even less of an emotional connection between the characters and I. If I don't care about the characters and what happens to them why would I continue playing. Speaking of characters they have become more stereotypical than ever. So why should I invest 60-80 hours in game I don't care for. My time can be better spent elsewhere.
 
[quote name='kill3r7']Whether JRPGs are a niche genre is debatable but at least here on CAG the majority of us have played and enjoyed them for decades. The question remains...what has changed this generation? Personally, this generation, I find the stories have hit rock bottom. There is even less of an emotional connection between the characters and I. If I don't care about the characters and what happens to them why would I continue playing. Speaking of characters they have become more stereotypical than ever. So why should I invest 60-80 hours in game I don't care for. My time can be better spent elsewhere.[/QUOTE]

That's one of the biggest problems with them. Most characters are just stereotypes. That and the the story's are so cliched. I don't mind cliched unless its written well,but most of the writing in these games are horrible. Take Mass Effect for example. The story isn't original but it's done very well. That and the characters are also done well and are very likable.
 
there was always crap in the JRPG genre back in the days, the difference is that they're now available in the US, whereas all the crap JRPGs back then stayed in Japan.

before FF7 they only brought what they thought was cream of the crop. now they just bring everything out, even the mediocre stuff.

as FF13 and FF14 were huge busts, and the better JRPGs this gen are actually found on handhelds, for console JRPG fans the only top tier JRPG that came out was ToV and perhaps Valkyria, though I don't view that as a conventional JRPG.

i mean you can point the finger at the actual games, but really, i don't think any of them were made with the intention of being top-tier level except maybe lost odyssey.
 
Heck back in the day a lot of good RPGs never make it here, such as Secret of Mana 2, Bahamut Lagoon, etc
 
I really don't see what makes lost odyssey so great. Its a good game, but the gameplay is the same as stuff you can find on the ps1. Only two things that made it different was the skill link system and the thousands dreams feature which were both good. The characters were decent at best and the story was nothing special. In the end its above average.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']And I think we can all accept the fact that Square Enix will never be able to release an FF that's whole heartedly embraced by the online community. People hold way too strong of a grudge against that name. It will be fun in a few years when all the FFXIII fanboys flood the internet, I already see fans of XII are much more common compared to when it was the worst game ever made.[/QUOTE]

I've never really gotten the hate for XII. I guess it is coming from the PC world the programmable aspects of combat didn't bother me. While I agree that the characters are somewhat bland, I did like it for the most part. I liked it much more than X.

Personally, I still have a ton of JRPGs on the previous generation that will keep me busy for a while (Have Xenosaga, Tales Of The Abyss and Disgaea which I haven't even gotten to yet, not to mention many that I don't own.)
 
[quote name='themaster20000']I really don't see what makes lost odyssey so great. Its a good game, but the gameplay is the same as stuff you can find on the ps1. Only two things that made it different was the skill link system and the thousands dreams feature which were both good. The characters were decent at best and the story was nothing special. In the end its above average.[/QUOTE]

I never saw the appeal with this game either. The story and dreams were good, but the gameplay mechanics were unforgiving and difficult. I didn't care for the mini-games and side stuff like the stealth. TO get past certain sections, you needed to have certain spells or abilities and I ended up not beating the game.
 
[quote name='themaster20000']I really don't see what makes lost odyssey so great. Its a good game, but the gameplay is the same as stuff you can find on the ps1. Only two things that made it different was the skill link system and the thousands dreams feature which were both good. The characters were decent at best and the story was nothing special. In the end its above average.[/QUOTE]

The gameplay wasn't innovative, but that doesn't make it bad. I see that argument against the game all the time. The gameplay is a perfect modern imagining of a classic-style JRPG in my opinion. So what makes it special isn't that it does a lot of new things, it's that it does the old formula extremely well with a modern level of polish. Also there is very minimal grinding due to the level barrier, and the battles involve a great deal of strategy and preparation, which is what makes for a fun turn-based battle system to me.

As for the story/characters, that is all opinion of course. I loved Lost Odyssey's story and characters. Jansen was one of my favorite game characters ever. I found the story to be more involving and touching than any other JRPG ever, which is saying a lot.
The funeral scene alone was enough to make me cry. Not to mention all the Thousand Years of Dreams stories.
 
Besides Jansen and Kaim I thought Lost Odyssey had a weak cast. But weather you like it or not there's no denying LO was was unique for taking the classic JRPG formula and making something not so cliched. It took an chance, did something a little different, and I appreciate that.
 
[quote name='Rodimus']Besides Jansen and Kaim I thought Lost Odyssey had a weak cast. But weather you like it or not there's no denying LO was was unique for taking the classic JRPG formula and making something not so cliched. It took an chance, did something a little different, and I appreciate that.[/QUOTE]

Aww, how could you not love Sed and Seth?! But yeah, I'm ok with people not caring for the game, I just don't like when people act like the traditional gameplay structure was a flaw of some sort, because it was actually done really well.
 
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