Many of the boss fights required you to take a very specific strategy to beat them. There was one fight where if you didn't have a certain spell, you couldn't beat the boss. I missed getting spell along the way and didn't want to backtrack, so I quit.
Oh wow, SUCH great responses from everyone! I still don't know what to think (this whole issue just confuses me because I've almost come 180 from loving to hate them LOL).
For the time being, I'm still playing Suikoden, which is probably a mistake given I already started it back in '96 or whenever and quit back then, and it'll probably burn me out on these games for a while, but oh well...
Commenting randomly:
[quote name='DarkSageRK']Tales of Vesperia.[/QUOTE]
I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate the Tales games. I played the first Playstation one, and eventually gave up. Don't like the battle system at ALL, and the stories for the handful I've tried have been generic tripe.
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']We got older, man. It made more sense to us at 12 that we were playing as teenage characters saving the world. In our 20s, seeing 5'4", skinny 15 year olds picking up a sword for the first time? Not so much. Factor in the young emotional issues (insecurity, indecision, etc), and you have an archetype that may not stick with you as you grow up.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, that probably doesn't help!
[quote name='kill3r7']It's easy to get tired of mediocrity. We have yet to see an amazing JRPG this generation. The genre is stuck in a rut right now. Something that FPS games will face soon as well. Hopefully something great awaits in the horizon.[/QUOTE]
Regarding this, I don't think it's the same thing since I really feel like the average quality of FPS is much higher. Even supposedly bad FPS I think have much better stories and combat than a typical Japanese RPG, plus as a later poster says, they're maybe 1/10th the commitment. They also don't have the busywork that Japanese RPGs have that makes them drag on.
[quote name='Rodimus']I can't help but feel Squenix ruined the genre (on consoles at least)[/QUOTE]
I don't feel that way at all...I feel like Square's just kind of quit. I mean Final Fantasy 13 looks awesome (it's still in my backlog) but that's the only proper game they've released this gen (save for like three PSP games that look really great).
If there were more games like that coming out...but I don't want relationship sims or whatever...frankly FF13 looks right up my ally, and I'm hoping for the best with it.
[quote name='Dead of Knight']I was going to agree with you but:
This, sir, is a fail.[/quote]
Says the person who appears to have a Dragon Quest avatar
I actually liked Dragon Quest 4 back when my brother rented it on the NES a bajillion years ago. I don't know what it is with Dragon Quest, where I still really like the first one, but then am irritated by the extra stuff added in all the sequels I've played so far. Still did by DQ 9 though, and hoping for the best with that since it seemed like some critics who are kind of burnt out on these too were kind of enjoying it.
[quote name='pete5883']JRPGs are very long, samey, and you seem to be playing a lot of mediocre ones. I've been trying to stick to the AAA ones to keep from wanting to give up on the genre entirely.[/QUOTE]
Which ones are the AAA ones? I've never tried a Persona, and 4 sounded kind of cool, except the relationship aspect sounds bad to me. (I bought Persona 1 for the PSP, somehow lost it, but might be talked in to buying 4 when it comes out.)
[quote name='panzerfaust']WRPGs have gotten better? 0_o. [/quote]
I think they were always at least on par, but have continued to evolve with better production values and easier to play gameplay.
Some fans of old Black Isle games probably see games like Mass Effect as targeted towards little kids -- it goes both ways.
Guess I'm in the part that doesn't. I like the Black Isle stuff, a lot of it, but I like Bioware's newer games better (except I like Mass Effect 1 better than 2, but still.).
[quote name='Mr Unoriginal']For me the length has a lot to do with not putting up with mediocre bullshit. A 5 hour so-so FPS is a lot harder to swallow than a 40 hour so-so JRPG.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this is the case for me too. Heck, if Japanese RPGs were 5-10 hours long, I probably woudln't mind so much. They're just SOOOOOO full of filler though. "Hey, why don't you get me this pail of water from the next village over, and then I'll give you the key to get the Ancient Sword". In a Bioware RPG, I could just stab the **** and take the damn key :lol:
[quote name='ihadFG']Lost Odyssey may just be my favorite JRPG ever.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it's up there for me, although I liked Final Fantasy 9 and 10 better, but liked Lost Odyssey around 6-8 level...meaning I really liked it
[quote name='kill3r7']JRPGs are like books. They strive to immerse you in their world and story. They have a story to tell and like most good stories they are told in a linear fashion. You play as the protagonist and watch the story unfold from a third person perspective, in almost a movie like experience. You have no control over how the character looks or behaves. Thus the player lacks the same level of control as in a WRPG. However, this is not a necessarily a bad thing. For most people this lack of control leads to a greater level of immersion and seeing the story unfold becomes the focal point. By the same token, if the player doesn't connect with the main character or the story the game falls flat. IMO this is what's been happening this generation. JRPGs are failing to connect with their userbase.[/QUOTE]
I basically agree with all that except that western style RPGs have been getting better and better at storytelling I think, with Bioware and CDProjekt and stuff, while I feel like mostly Japanese RPGs are stagnant or moving backwards.
Sakaguchi is really something IMO...he's got a unique voice, and he really tries to do new stuff and thoughtful stuff. But on man, Lost Odyssey is such a far cry from typical amnesiac spunky, probably mute kid.
I'm sad there's no sequel...it was perfectly set up for one.
I just really do feel like everything else keeps moving forward with story telling...back in 1991 you had RPGs that were trying to tell stories, and other games weren't really. Only here in 2011 I feel like everything else is trying to tell stories that are often competing with films for quality, while JRPGs are usually STILL telling that same damn story from 1991, and any "innovation" in the gameplay is usually to me a big step back.
[quote name='kill3r7']Whether JRPGs are a niche genre is debatable but at least here on CAG the majority of us have played and enjoyed them for decades. The question remains...what has changed this generation? Personally, this generation, I find the stories have hit rock bottom. There is even less of an emotional connection between the characters and I. If I don't care about the characters and what happens to them why would I continue playing. Speaking of characters they have become more stereotypical than ever. So why should I invest 60-80 hours in game I don't care for. My time can be better spent elsewhere.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='themaster20000']That's one of the biggest problems with them. Most characters are just stereotypes. That and the the story's are so cliched. I don't mind cliched unless its written well,but most of the writing in these games are horrible. Take Mass Effect for example. The story isn't original but it's done very well. That and the characters are also done well and are very likable.[/QUOTE]
Yep. For me it happened last gen though. FFX is awesome to me. 12 wasn't as good to me, but still pretty awesome, but geez, I can't think what else did anything for me? Bioware's kept evolving, as have non-RPG games. Well and also, nearly every genre's gotten infused with RPG elements now.
[quote name='kainzero']there was always crap in the JRPG genre back in the days, the difference is that they're now available in the US, whereas all the crap JRPGs back then stayed in Japan.[/quote]
That's an interesting point...how many RPGs did we get back then? Maybe it was few enough that I didn't have this problem...although even like in the early 90's I feel like Square was putting out more good stuff, Lunar came out, etc. Lots of stuff that had strong stories for the time...there's nothing like that in Japanese RPGs now that's the equivalent, so far as I know.
and the better JRPGs this gen are actually found on handhelds
What were they? Parasite Eve 3 and the prequel to FF7 come to mind, but...
[quote name='themaster20000']I really don't see what makes lost odyssey so great. Its a good game, but the gameplay is the same as stuff you can find on the ps1. Only two things that made it different was the skill link system and the thousands dreams feature which were both good. The characters were decent at best and the story was nothing special. In the end its above average.[/QUOTE]
I don't think it's the greatest thing ever, but I love the gameplay...I think Sakaguchi's stuff does a great job of always being different, mixing things up, while also being familiar and accessible. I find a lot of Japanese stuff just keeps getting more and more and more and more complex and less assessable, or alternatively sometimes too simple.
And the story, I'd love for it to be better still, but (FF13 aside, possibly) the Japanese RPG prior to LO that compared was FF10...I mean it's just head and shoulders above what I see every single time I boot up a Tales of Valsheria and Rhapsody Blu dating sim or whatever.
Hmm...random thought, did Pokemon hurt RPGs? Probably not.
[quote name='TheLongshot']I've never really gotten the hate for XII. I guess it is coming from the PC world the programmable aspects of combat didn't bother me. While I agree that the characters are somewhat bland, I did like it for the most part. I liked it much more than X.[/quote]
I liked 10 much more, but I like 12 a lot too. Compared to 10, the combat wasn't as satisfying to me, but I still liked it and found the programmable stuff to be rather a brilliant idea. I was actually hoping a sequel would give you a slightly more complex ability to program stuff...seems like I wanted If/Then type statements. It made it possible to do almost everything on autopilot, with no loading either. I LOVED that. My only complaint is that it never really got more satisfying than that...I'd almost want turn based for bosses or something, I don't know.
And the story was good, but still to me felt weak compared to Sakaguchi's stuff...but 1 million times better than other stuff. No I liked it quite a bit. A forum I'm on, we all accidentally ended up playing FF12 together, and had a lot of fun doing it!
Personally, I still have a ton of JRPGs on the previous generation that will keep me busy for a while (Have Xenosaga, Tales Of The Abyss and Disgaea which I haven't even gotten to yet, not to mention many that I don't own.)
I'm going to order the reprint of Disgaea 1 I guess for PSP soon, but the other two...I hate Tales, and wanted to get into Xenosaga, but just couldn't. Such weird gameplay / I liked Xenogears pretty well. Maybe Xenoblade will be better?
[quote name='ihadFG']The gameplay wasn't innovative, but that doesn't make it bad. I see that argument against the game all the time.[/quote]
Yeah as per above I don't care if it wasn't completely new. It was still mixed up, not quite like anything else, and Sakaguchi's battle systems are just really satisfying to me-just the right complexity. I can't make head or tales of some Japanese RPGs.
As for the story/characters, that is all opinion of course. I loved Lost Odyssey's story and characters. Jansen was one of my favorite game characters ever. I found the story to be more involving and touching than any other JRPG ever, which is saying a lot.
The funeral scene alone was enough to make me cry. Not to mention all the Thousand Years of Dreams stories.
Yeah, it just had a really strong story IMO. I liked Jansen too, and he COULD have been really annoying. My least favorite part is just that the characters never change clothes, and some of them had HORRIBLE outfits. Kaim and Seth looked awesome though, and MAN are those two refreshing after the normal effeminate spunky brats. Kaim's the opposite of 15, not remotely effeminate, and not spunky at all either D
DANG I hope Last Story is good, except I guess it's an action RPG
[quote name='2DMention']I also appreciate that it took an old formula and put it in the modern age, but I found it too difficult.
Many of the boss fights required you to take a very specific strategy to beat them. There was one fight where if you didn't have a certain spell, you couldn't beat the boss. I missed getting spell along the way and didn't want to backtrack, so I quit.[/QUOTE]
This was about Lost Odyssey I think? I level ground some like I have to in all these games, but I didn't find it hard, except, ironically for the first and to a lesser extent second boss. I almost quit the game there! I replayed it SIX TIMES before I lucked out into beating it, and then maybe died once on the second boss, and then never had an issue again...I mean the final boss is (thankfully) far, far, far easier than the first boss :lol:
I can't remember needing anything for any particular boss. Maybe I just lucked out and had it already? Could be.
How were you with like Xenosaga and stuff though? Because for me I can't make out a lot of games like that, but Lost Odyssey worked fine for me.
[quote name='Wolfpup'] but I didn't find it hard, except, ironically for the first and to a lesser extent second boss.
I can't remember needing anything for any particular boss. Maybe I just lucked out and had it already? Could be.
[/QUOTE]
Same. The first boss was the hardest one in the game for me, and the second was the only other one that seemed quite hard. After that the game wasn't hard for me, but I also don't remember missing any important spell that was needed for a boss.
[quote name='Wolfpup']I don't feel that way at all...I feel like Square's just kind of quit. I mean Final Fantasy 13 looks awesome (it's still in my backlog) but that's the only proper game they've released this gen (save for like three PSP games that look really great).[/quote]
You don't consider Nier a proper RPG?
Which ones are the AAA ones? I've never tried a Persona, and 4 sounded kind of cool, except the relationship aspect sounds bad to me. (I bought Persona 1 for the PSP, somehow lost it, but might be talked in to buying 4 when it comes out.)
I've played Persona 3, and I don't think the relationship stuff is that bad. It is mostly just meeting with people at the right times to level up your Persona combining abilities.
I liked 10 much more, but I like 12 a lot too. Compared to 10, the combat wasn't as satisfying to me, but I still liked it and found the programmable stuff to be rather a brilliant idea. I was actually hoping a sequel would give you a slightly more complex ability to program stuff...seems like I wanted If/Then type statements. It made it possible to do almost everything on autopilot, with no loading either. I LOVED that. My only complaint is that it never really got more satisfying than that...I'd almost want turn based for bosses or something, I don't know.
What annoys me the most about X is the voice acting. Just bad all the way around. I also thought character development was extremely linear, with few opportunities to deviate from the path. The warrant system of XII was much better than the sphere grid, IMO.
And the story was good, but still to me felt weak compared to Sakaguchi's stuff...but 1 million times better than other stuff. No I liked it quite a bit. A forum I'm on, we all accidentally ended up playing FF12 together, and had a lot of fun doing it!
[quote name='Wolfpup']Random question, but is that Francis York Morgan (but you can call him York) as your avatar? I'm playing that right now :lol: Pretty great so far.[/QUOTE]
Yep, that's right! It was one of my favorite games ever.
[quote name='Wolfpup']If there were more games like that coming out...but I don't want relationship sims or whatever...frankly FF13 looks right up my ally, and I'm hoping for the best with it.[/QUOTE]
I would take Persona's social link and press turn system over FFXIII's paradigm any day.
Everyone liking LO must not have run into the disk 4 bug. Up till that point thought it was okay, but nothing special seemed like generic rpg xxx to me.
[quote name='LostRoad']Everyone liking LO must not have run into the disk 4 bug. Up till that point thought it was okay, but nothing special seemed like generic rpg xxx to me.[/QUOTE]
What's the disc 4 bug? Also disc 4 was where the game really opened up with sidequests and optional bosses and everything else.
[quote name='ihadFG']What's the disc 4 bug? Also disc 4 was where the game really opened up with sidequests and optional bosses and everything else.[/QUOTE]
Only "bug" I knew of was the shitty case MS used here in the US resulting in Disc 4 only being in a paper sleeve. Other regions had a proper larger case to house all four discs.
Yeah, what was the disc 4 bug? And yeah, the packaging was lame.
Playstation 1 games used to have pretty nice packaging for multiple discs...heck, even the ones that were physically the same size, like how some capcom games came packaged were really nice, but they could fit at least six games in those cases pretty well, I think.
The Xbox...does two okay, I guess. Three they just throw them all in a pile, which I guess is still better than how they do four, where they're just kind of slapped in randomly.
Do you guys have like...a lot of Xbox games that have weird distortions on the disc that you can actually see? I get that a LOT and have never seen it on any other system, and actually did have one of my Lost Odyssey discs swapped out /
My assumption is they're using some super cheap press or something compared to what everyone else uses.
[quote name='ihadFG']Yep, that's right! It was one of my favorite games ever.[/QUOTE]
Oh cool! I can't understand some of the super low reviews...I mean I find York fascinating and most of the other characters good. The music's pretty great, it's really atmospheric. I STILL don't know what's going on, 6 hours in. The gameplay's really ambitious. The controls contrary to some things I read work well so far (except maybe the car controls, but they're good enough for what you're asked to do so far).
From what I can tell so far it reminds me of the first Silent Hill or D2 or something kind of...it's really good IMO and I wouldn't even call the graphics bad, although I know the environments aren't cutting edge, but then not cutting edge on the Xbox isn't the same as it was on the PS2 or PS1!
[quote name='TheLongshot']You don't consider Nier a proper RPG?[/quote]
Honestly I don't know. Maybe it's one I should have played, but the reviews were iffy...but then again I really don't trust reviews anymore, so... (not for games, not for films...I've watched so many 4 star films I hate, so many 1-2 star films I love, IGN gave Deadly Premonition a 25% and I'm loving it, and I hate plenty of 90%+ games...so I just don't care that much anymore automatically).
I've played Persona 3, and I don't think the relationship stuff is that bad. It is mostly just meeting with people at the right times to level up your Persona combining abilities.
I don't know, that sounds like a lot of work to me :lol: I'm lazy.
What annoys me the most about X is the voice acting. Just bad all the way around. I also thought character development was extremely linear, with few opportunities to deviate from the path. The warrant system of XII was much better than the sphere grid, IMO.
I thought the voice acting was mostly really good, particularly for main characters (that were all great) and I really liked that they did that. 12 seemed like it had a lot less voice, but then I'm thankful for what I can get I guess.
The one bad thing in 10 was that kid near the beginning that didn't remotely sound like a kid or any plausible human being :lol:
Shoo puff waiting! Riiiiide the shoo puff? (Oh no, I haven't run around saying that in a few years, now it's stuck in my head again :lol
Speaking of Sakaguchi, I am looking forward to Last Story, if it ever comes out over here.
Oh man, can you imagine if it didn't for some reason? I've just been keeping myself in the dark about it, since it's like "okay, art looks fine even though it's Wii, and it's Sakaguchi"
Of course I'd never have thought Warren Specter could make something so bad as Epic Mickey, so you never know, but IMO Sakaguchi completely proved himself with Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey...that he made them feel like his games despite having two different teams, and not being at Square.
[quote name='Wolfpup']Do you guys have like...a lot of Xbox games that have weird distortions on the disc that you can actually see? I get that a LOT and have never seen it on any other system, and actually did have one of my Lost Odyssey discs swapped out /
My assumption is they're using some super cheap press or something compared to what everyone else uses.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'd say at least 3/4 of 360 games have unusual discoloration in the reflective layer. Haven't ever had a problem playing discs but it is something I've noticed too.
Is that a manufactering problem do you think? Or actually intentional somehow? Like I don't know, somehow part of an anti-theft system, or something?
I just can't remember any DVDs, Blu Rays, or any other console games (Turbographix, PSP, PS1, PS2, Saturn, Dreamcast, Gamecube, and whatever else I'm forgetting) looking like that.
It makes me vaguely worried, like maybe it'll degrade over time, or the laser could have a harder time reading it or something.
My copy of Deadly Premonition actually not only has the typical weird warped discoloration, but is even slightly cracked around the inside rim /
So the disc itself is bad it sounds like? Like a manufacturing problem? All of mine were warped weirdly, and I did force Gamestop to replace one of them, though I think maybe it was disc 2, that seemed especially bad.
It probably sounds like I'm a fanboy or something hating on the Xbox, but something's up with their manufactering process versus every other console...the boxes are more prone to having sticky stuff I can't get off too. I wish they'd just switch to whatever process Sony or Nintendo was using instead.
I firmly believe that Enchanted Arms revived RPGS just to troll it, then Square Enix killed it with Star Ocean 4's voice acting. I don't know if From Software did it intentionally, but Enchanted Arms was every Jrpg stereotype and made fun of it or just made it so blatant that it became a game of the decade.
I nominate Enchanted Arms as the best rpg this generation. I have never had so much fun in a Jrpg as that one. It said everything most people were thinking about Jrpgs. Why just hint at someone's sexuality when they can make him more flaming then San Fransisco and Edo period put together? Hell, lets put San Fransisco and Edo Period together. The world only has four cities anyways.
[quote name='Paco']I firmly believe that Enchanted Arms revived RPGS just to troll it, then Square Enix killed it with Star Ocean 4's voice acting. I don't know if From Software did it intentionally, but Enchanted Arms was every Jrpg stereotype and made fun of it or just made it so blatant that it became a game of the decade.
I nominate Enchanted Arms as the best rpg this generation. I have never had so much fun in a Jrpg as that one. It said everything most people were thinking about Jrpgs. Why just hint at someone's sexuality when they can make him more flaming then San Fransisco and Edo period put together? Hell, lets put San Fransisco and Edo Period together. The world only has four cities anyways.[/QUOTE]
Whoa, that is the most positive review of Enchanted Arms I have EVER seen! Is it really that fun? I almost bought it just by virtue of it being the first current gen RPG, but...
Is it playable? Easy combat and hopefully not much fetch questing? I could be talked in to this!
But SURELY it's not actually as good as Lost Odyssey!
May have mentioned this already, but ironically after posting this, I'm still playing Suekoden 1! I read Jeff Gerstman's positive review from the time (which unfortunately meant visiting Gameslop)...he made it sound fun again, and plus mentioned it was really short, so that sounded good...
Anyway the writing is a lot better than I remembered. I like how fast it switches to/from battles too (although the fact I'm playing it on the PSP might be the reason for that, can't remember).
The structure so far is easy too...characters just flat out tell you "that's north-east from here-just go there right now and go to the Inn, get it?". I hate hunting around for the next thing to trigger the story.
So...I don't know, I'm getting in to it, and glad I quit Glory of Hercules-if nothing else this has a much better interface (aside from my dislike of non-unified inventory systems, but when that's the only interface hickup that's cool).
[quote name='Wolfpup']Whoa, that is the most positive review of Enchanted Arms I have EVER seen! Is it really that fun? I almost bought it just by virtue of it being the first current gen RPG, but...
Is it playable? Easy combat and hopefully not much fetch questing? I could be talked in to this!
But SURELY it's not actually as good as Lost Odyssey!
May have mentioned this already, but ironically after posting this, I'm still playing Suekoden 1! I read Jeff Gerstman's positive review from the time (which unfortunately meant visiting Gameslop)...he made it sound fun again, and plus mentioned it was really short, so that sounded good...
Anyway the writing is a lot better than I remembered. I like how fast it switches to/from battles too (although the fact I'm playing it on the PSP might be the reason for that, can't remember).
The structure so far is easy too...characters just flat out tell you "that's north-east from here-just go there right now and go to the Inn, get it?". I hate hunting around for the next thing to trigger the story.
So...I don't know, I'm getting in to it, and glad I quit Glory of Hercules-if nothing else this has a much better interface (aside from my dislike of non-unified inventory systems, but when that's the only interface hickup that's cool).[/QUOTE]
The thing to keep in mind about Enchanted arms is that the first 2-3 hours of the game really suck, or if you love shenanigans and lols, then they're incredibly great. If you can get past those few hours, then you'll be rewarded with a fairly good rpg experience. I don't know if From Software planned it this way, but they literally fix many of the rpg problems in their game design. Combat too slow? Press the fast forward button to speed those slow ass animations. Like Japanese voices? Then go ahead, and switch, but I advise you NOT to switch to them. Let me state that again. This is of the utmost importance, do NOT switch the voices to japanese. The only reason people prefer it is because they have no idea how bad Japanese voice acting is. I guarantee you there is some otaku in Japan talking about how shitty Japanese Dragonball Z is and how American Dragonball Z is so much superior with manly voices and music that makes more actual sense.
But I strayed from the original point. The original point was that you MUST keep the English voice acting on. It hits that magical level of it's so bad it's good. And Raigar is a master of the Flame war. Infact his defense move has him doing the internet shield where he proclaims BRING FORTH DA SHIELDZ!
Also many rpgs tend to give the illusion of depth of the world with a whole bunch of cities, but in all honesty only about three or four really matter in the world of almost all RPGs. From Software gets that and makes only four cities in the game. America, Glorious NIPPON, London and Canada. Because that's the only places that matter in the US, and even then, Canada is debatable. Also Enchanted Arms has free Health care which shows it's European roots and strikes against the American capitalist regime. This is where the game takes cues from Canada as everything in the game is easily affordable and won't break the bank. Also there isn't much grinding in this game, which is how Europeans like it. The only part you have to grind is when you hit Glorious Nippon as the monsters get incredibly tough and you have to grind for the mother land. Once you get past Nippon, the game gets really easy again because you hit Canada.
The game is one of those really rare gems where it knows it's an rpg tripe fest, but instead of pretending to be so serious about it all, it goes in the outlandishly high stereotypes to the point where you know it's making fun of itself. I mean come on, every Jrpg has that guy who only spends times with guys, they won't say he's outwardly homosexual, but there's always that element there. Enchanted Arms says that, lets make Makoto gay. Hell, lets make him a transvestiate, even better, lets make him a SUPER ULTRA MOTHER ER ULTRA COMBO Flamer with a weird as shit outfit where he attacks enemies by pelvic thrusting at them with his saxamaphone and says OKAYYYYYY BAAAAAHHHHROOOOOOOM! And then after he destroys the monsters, he makes a love love cake for Toya who looks like a member of GackT. Then uses womanly language like GIRLFRIEND and SISTER and other stuff when fighting evil.
Atsuma is also the stereotypical dumb hero, but From Software decided to make him so dumb, that it's simply flabbergasting at how stupid he is. It's like they said while the standard Jrpg hero is plenty stupid, he isn't stupid enough to make an amusing parody. So what From Software did was toss a flash bang grenade of super concentrated stupid at him, then say "Is he dumb enough yet?" While the producer said "Nah, lets make him even stupider. Lets not only make him dumb as a sack of shit, but make him have EXPLOSIVE AMNESIA TOO!." Then another guy came from the crapper and said "Wait, let's give him an arm that gives him magical powers, but lets make it so it only works when it wants to!
Then another one of the programmers decided to make one of the characters have an M. Bison hat, put a schoolgirl in there because he probably stole some panties earlier that day, and continued to make the shenanigan fest that is Enchanted Arms.
This game is a true winner in Jrpg design, not only because of the fantastic writing, the excellent performance of the voice acting, but how they managed to make decades old jrpg stereotypes into something fresh again by self parody. I give this game an A- and put this above mediocre or average crap like Tales of whatever, Star Ocean 4, and Final Fantasy XIII.
I could see playing a bunch of by-the-numbers RPGs like DQ could tire someone out, but that's why there are the more unique games that out there (Persona, Strange Journey, Etrian Odyssey, Ys, etc.) that either have very different battle systems or overall structure that sets them apart from the norm.
[quote name='Wolfpup']I don't know, that sounds like a lot of work to me :lol: I'm lazy.[/QUOTE]
When you have free time to do whatever after class or on a day off, you can hang out with somebody that's available. It's not that hard.
[quote name='Paco']I give this game an A- and put this above mediocre or average crap like Tales of whatever, Star Ocean 4, and Final Fantasy XIII.[/QUOTE]
Now see I'm just totally confused as to what's going on. This is serious? A bizarre parody of a review of a bizarre game? I just don't know, and wish it was cheaper than $33!
This is the most I've ever wanted to play this game though!
[quote name='Wolfpup']Now see I'm just totally confused as to what's going on. This is serious? A bizarre parody of a review of a bizarre game? I just don't know, and wish it was cheaper than $33!
This is the most I've ever wanted to play this game though! [/QUOTE]
20 dollars new, eight dollars used. This is one of those rare games where it puts Jrpgs in perspective and you can't help but laugh at how asinine some of it is, and then laugh some more at the voiceacting, then laugh some more as From Software laughs at Jrpgs and does what Namco or Square wish they could do. I wonder how much sales Square Enix would lose if they told fangirls all of their heroes have no interest in women and to get their over entitled hoe ass out of my face.
[quote name='The Mana Knight']I still feel they are great, just that we don't get them much on consoles. On PSP and DS at times, they are excellent.[/QUOTE]
Well most jrpg dev's either don't want to bother with the consoles or don't have the money to make them for consoles.I do agree that we get some pretty good handheld rpg's.
Panzer Dragoon Saga is amazing. I wish they'd remake it (as a ING RETAIL PRODUCT, not some stupid download) and do a sequel. Just incredibly good, as is Dragon Force.
I would say that if we don't include Valkyria Chronicles as a JRPG, then Enchanted Arms is indeed the best non-portable JRPG I've played this gen. I don't have a 360.
Then again, Opoona is probably my favorite. But yeah, EA is definitely the best PS3 pure JRPG.
[quote name='Paco']The thing to keep in mind about Enchanted arms is that the first 2-3 hours of the game really suck, or if you love shenanigans and lols, then they're incredibly great. If you can get past those few hours, then you'll be rewarded with a fairly good rpg experience. I don't know if From Software planned it this way, but they literally fix many of the rpg problems in their game design. Combat too slow? Press the fast forward button to speed those slow ass animations. Like Japanese voices? Then go ahead, and switch, but I advise you NOT to switch to them. Let me state that again. This is of the utmost importance, do NOT switch the voices to japanese. The only reason people prefer it is because they have no idea how bad Japanese voice acting is. I guarantee you there is some otaku in Japan talking about how shitty Japanese Dragonball Z is and how American Dragonball Z is so much superior with manly voices and music that makes more actual sense.
But I strayed from the original point. The original point was that you MUST keep the English voice acting on. It hits that magical level of it's so bad it's good. And Raigar is a master of the Flame war. Infact his defense move has him doing the internet shield where he proclaims BRING FORTH DA SHIELDZ!
Also many rpgs tend to give the illusion of depth of the world with a whole bunch of cities, but in all honesty only about three or four really matter in the world of almost all RPGs. From Software gets that and makes only four cities in the game. America, Glorious NIPPON, London and Canada. Because that's the only places that matter in the US, and even then, Canada is debatable. Also Enchanted Arms has free Health care which shows it's European roots and strikes against the American capitalist regime. This is where the game takes cues from Canada as everything in the game is easily affordable and won't break the bank. Also there isn't much grinding in this game, which is how Europeans like it. The only part you have to grind is when you hit Glorious Nippon as the monsters get incredibly tough and you have to grind for the mother land. Once you get past Nippon, the game gets really easy again because you hit Canada.
The game is one of those really rare gems where it knows it's an rpg tripe fest, but instead of pretending to be so serious about it all, it goes in the outlandishly high stereotypes to the point where you know it's making fun of itself. I mean come on, every Jrpg has that guy who only spends times with guys, they won't say he's outwardly homosexual, but there's always that element there. Enchanted Arms says that, lets make Makoto gay. Hell, lets make him a transvestiate, even better, lets make him a SUPER ULTRA MOTHER ER ULTRA COMBO Flamer with a weird as shit outfit where he attacks enemies by pelvic thrusting at them with his saxamaphone and says OKAYYYYYY BAAAAAHHHHROOOOOOOM! And then after he destroys the monsters, he makes a love love cake for Toya who looks like a member of GackT. Then uses womanly language like GIRLFRIEND and SISTER and other stuff when fighting evil.
Atsuma is also the stereotypical dumb hero, but From Software decided to make him so dumb, that it's simply flabbergasting at how stupid he is. It's like they said while the standard Jrpg hero is plenty stupid, he isn't stupid enough to make an amusing parody. So what From Software did was toss a flash bang grenade of super concentrated stupid at him, then say "Is he dumb enough yet?" While the producer said "Nah, lets make him even stupider. Lets not only make him dumb as a sack of shit, but make him have EXPLOSIVE AMNESIA TOO!." Then another guy came from the crapper and said "Wait, let's give him an arm that gives him magical powers, but lets make it so it only works when it wants to!
Then another one of the programmers decided to make one of the characters have an M. Bison hat, put a schoolgirl in there because he probably stole some panties earlier that day, and continued to make the shenanigan fest that is Enchanted Arms.
This game is a true winner in Jrpg design, not only because of the fantastic writing, the excellent performance of the voice acting, but how they managed to make decades old jrpg stereotypes into something fresh again by self parody. I give this game an A- and put this above mediocre or average crap like Tales of whatever, Star Ocean 4, and Final Fantasy XIII.[/QUOTE]
Okay you convinced me I'm buying this game now and getting super baked. I find most JRPGS boring compared to games like mass effect but this sounds like a whole lot of fun.
I think my problem with JRPGs is how tedious they are and how boring the combat systems are. MAss Effect 2 started to get a tad boring towards the end but I had more fun with it then say FFX.
Well one of the big problems I had with FFX was the sphere grid system.The problem with it is that you could make every character the same,other than the limit breaks.That and the characters were mostly horrible.Same with the story.FF9 was really the last excellent game in the series.
[quote name='Wolfpup']Panzer Dragoon Saga is amazing. I wish they'd remake it (as a ING RETAIL PRODUCT, not some stupid download) and do a sequel. Just incredibly good, as is Dragon Force.[/QUOTE]
What's wrong with stupid downloads?
Without stupid downloads alot of these smaller production games would never see the light of day, and PDS didn't exactly light up the sales chart (they couldn't even sell out of the ~1500 print run in the US, LOL)
Well you don't own them. Not worth buying stuff I care about if I don't actually own it.
They're cutting off at least 40% of the market (plus whatever percent of people are online with it and won't put up with activation.
Plus no cases/extras, and having to deal with storing it.
It's hurt smaller games...used to be tons of interesting lower budget games, and now there's hardly anything...though thankfully Deadly Premonition somehow made it out, since it's fantastic.
It's hurt smaller games...used to be tons of interesting lower budget games, and now there's hardly anything...though thankfully Deadly Premonition somehow made it out, since it's fantastic.[/QUOTE]
You are wrong on that part. A lot of indie developers got a game out because of digitial download. We would never got Super Meat Boy, Limbo, Splosion Man, etc
I'll admit right away that I only read the first page, but OP it sounds like you got tired of jrpgs because of the same reason I did...they really blow now.
Granted, my eyes were opened about what I was missing on the wrpg front when I played Oblivion on 360 and realised that every jrpg I ever played was garbage in comparison. The lack of a decent jrpg this gen didn't help things with me. I've since played some older wrpgs as well like Kotor and Deus Ex (amazing, even today) and I realize now that the genre was always better, I just couldn't play them because I didn't have a computer or xbox 1.
I don't know how the OP feels about wrpgs because like I said I stopped after page 1, I'm sure it was brought up. If you can't get into them then you're pretty much screwed since they're the ones bringing the goods to the table this gen. This year alone has Dragon Age 2, Deus Ex HR, Witcher 2, Mass Effect 3, Risen 2, Elder Scrolls Skyrim. Even if you want to take Risen 2 out of there you have 5 high profile AAA wrpgs which is just insane. We're lucky if we get 2 of those a year normally. This was already the generation of the wrpg, but now it looks like this year will be the peak.
[quote name='tmacairjordan87']I'll admit right away that I only read the first page, but OP it sounds like you got tired of jrpgs because of the same reason I did...they really blow now.
Granted, my eyes were opened about what I was missing on the wrpg front when I played Oblivion on 360 and realised that every jrpg I ever played was garbage in comparison. The lack of a decent jrpg this gen didn't help things with me. I've since played some older wrpgs as well like Kotor and Deus Ex (amazing, even today) and I realize now that the genre was always better, I just couldn't play them because I didn't have a computer or xbox 1.
I don't know how the OP feels about wrpgs because like I said I stopped after page 1, I'm sure it was brought up. If you can't get into them then you're pretty much screwed since they're the ones bringing the goods to the table this gen. This year alone has Dragon Age 2, Deus Ex HR, Witcher 2, Mass Effect 3, Risen 2, Elder Scrolls Skyrim. Even if you want to take Risen 2 out of there you have 5 high profile AAA wrpgs which is just insane. We're lucky if we get 2 of those a year normally. This was already the generation of the wrpg, but now it looks like this year will be the peak.[/QUOTE]
Glad you liked Deus Ex! That and Nethack are I think my two favorite games of all time (which is saying something since there are so many awesome games). Epic Micky was sure a huge disappointment though /
And yeah, I love or am interested in most of the games you mentioned. Tons of great stuff.
I'd like a Sakaguchi game every other year, anyway...if we got that many...
[quote name='62t']You are wrong on that part. A lot of indie developers got a game out because of digitial download. We would never got Super Meat Boy, Limbo, Splosion Man, etc[/QUOTE]
Well personally I though Super Meat Boy and Splosion Man were garbage, but I don't know that means we wouldn't have gotten them...we used to get way more stuff at a wider range of price points too. Limbo certainly should have made it.
Just thankful when something like Deadly Premonition happens...although it's worth full price, but I ain't complaining about $20!
Well personally I though Super Meat Boy and Splosion Man were garbage, but I don't know that means we wouldn't have gotten them...we used to get way more stuff at a wider range of price points too. Limbo certainly should have made it.
We did used to get quirky games at release, but that was a much different game industry back then. The requirements to put games out was much lower, and the cost of development was much lower, so lesser selling games could be released retail.
[quote name='Paco']The thing to keep in mind about Enchanted arms is that the first 2-3 hours of the game really suck, or if you love shenanigans and lols, then they're incredibly great. If you can get past those few hours, then you'll be rewarded with a fairly good rpg experience. I don't know if From Software planned it this way, but they literally fix many of the rpg problems in their game design. Combat too slow? Press the fast forward button to speed those slow ass animations. Like Japanese voices? Then go ahead, and switch, but I advise you NOT to switch to them. Let me state that again. This is of the utmost importance, do NOT switch the voices to japanese. The only reason people prefer it is because they have no idea how bad Japanese voice acting is. I guarantee you there is some otaku in Japan talking about how shitty Japanese Dragonball Z is and how American Dragonball Z is so much superior with manly voices and music that makes more actual sense.
But I strayed from the original point. The original point was that you MUST keep the English voice acting on. It hits that magical level of it's so bad it's good. And Raigar is a master of the Flame war. Infact his defense move has him doing the internet shield where he proclaims BRING FORTH DA SHIELDZ!
Also many rpgs tend to give the illusion of depth of the world with a whole bunch of cities, but in all honesty only about three or four really matter in the world of almost all RPGs. From Software gets that and makes only four cities in the game. America, Glorious NIPPON, London and Canada. Because that's the only places that matter in the US, and even then, Canada is debatable. Also Enchanted Arms has free Health care which shows it's European roots and strikes against the American capitalist regime. This is where the game takes cues from Canada as everything in the game is easily affordable and won't break the bank. Also there isn't much grinding in this game, which is how Europeans like it. The only part you have to grind is when you hit Glorious Nippon as the monsters get incredibly tough and you have to grind for the mother land. Once you get past Nippon, the game gets really easy again because you hit Canada.
The game is one of those really rare gems where it knows it's an rpg tripe fest, but instead of pretending to be so serious about it all, it goes in the outlandishly high stereotypes to the point where you know it's making fun of itself. I mean come on, every Jrpg has that guy who only spends times with guys, they won't say he's outwardly homosexual, but there's always that element there. Enchanted Arms says that, lets make Makoto gay. Hell, lets make him a transvestiate, even better, lets make him a SUPER ULTRA MOTHER ER ULTRA COMBO Flamer with a weird as shit outfit where he attacks enemies by pelvic thrusting at them with his saxamaphone and says OKAYYYYYY BAAAAAHHHHROOOOOOOM! And then after he destroys the monsters, he makes a love love cake for Toya who looks like a member of GackT. Then uses womanly language like GIRLFRIEND and SISTER and other stuff when fighting evil.
Atsuma is also the stereotypical dumb hero, but From Software decided to make him so dumb, that it's simply flabbergasting at how stupid he is. It's like they said while the standard Jrpg hero is plenty stupid, he isn't stupid enough to make an amusing parody. So what From Software did was toss a flash bang grenade of super concentrated stupid at him, then say "Is he dumb enough yet?" While the producer said "Nah, lets make him even stupider. Lets not only make him dumb as a sack of shit, but make him have EXPLOSIVE AMNESIA TOO!." Then another guy came from the crapper and said "Wait, let's give him an arm that gives him magical powers, but lets make it so it only works when it wants to!
Then another one of the programmers decided to make one of the characters have an M. Bison hat, put a schoolgirl in there because he probably stole some panties earlier that day, and continued to make the shenanigan fest that is Enchanted Arms.
This game is a true winner in Jrpg design, not only because of the fantastic writing, the excellent performance of the voice acting, but how they managed to make decades old jrpg stereotypes into something fresh again by self parody. I give this game an A- and put this above mediocre or average crap like Tales of whatever, Star Ocean 4, and Final Fantasy XIII.[/QUOTE]
Why play Enchanted Arms when you can read Paco's Tacos review?
[quote name='BigPopov']We did used to get quirky games at release, but that was a much different game industry back then. The requirements to put games out was much lower, and the cost of development was much lower, so lesser selling games could be released retail.[/QUOTE]
If anything it's cheaper to make the same quality game on the current gen systems than last gen, and the idea's negated anyway by these downloads.
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Why play Enchanted Arms when you can read Paco's Tacos review?[/QUOTE]
[quote name='Wolfpup']If anything it's cheaper to make the same quality game on the current gen systems than last gen, and the idea's negated anyway by these downloads.
[/QUOTE]
Except people don't want last gen quality games. They want HD games. That gets expensive.
Well HD is free...costs less to make stuff look as good or better on an Xbox than on a Wii, and anyway if people are willing to get these download things, and were willing to get equivalent games before...
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']Why play Enchanted Arms when you can read Paco's Tacos review?[/QUOTE]
Because if you don't play Enchanted Arms, you miss out on an epic life changing experience. This game single handedly changed how I view Jrpgs. Infact, I replayed this game four times throughout owning it. It's that amusing.
[quote name='X BRO 420']Downloads are cheaper and better. Pac man championship DX would have been at least $20 last gen but I got it last week for $5.[/QUOTE]
Retail games have sales and fall in price more than downloads do, and even if not they're worth a lot more.
[quote name='Paco']Because if you don't play Enchanted Arms, you miss out on an epic life changing experience. This game single handedly changed how I view Jrpgs. Infact, I replayed this game four times throughout owning it. It's that amusing.
BRING FORTH DA SHIELDZ MAKATO![/QUOTE]
That's funny, because enchanted arms drove me away from jrpgs completely due to how terrible it was. I was looking forward to it too since it was the first 360 jrpg (might have even been the first rpg overall, I don't remember if it came out before or after Oblivion).
But I guess you are right about it being life changing. It changed a former lifetime jrpg fanboy to a western rpg lover.
[quote name='Paco']Because if you don't play Enchanted Arms, you miss out on an epic life changing experience. This game single handedly changed how I view Jrpgs. Infact, I replayed this game four times throughout owning it. It's that amusing.[/QUOTE]
I'm trying to detect sarcasm. I'm not sure if you hated the game so much that you're trolling Enchanted Arms onto other people or genuinely enjoyed a game that everyone else hates.
Indeed, I'm confused, and need someone else to tell me it's good :lol: I mean the way s/he says it, it actually does sound really hilarious, and the battles don't sound to bad, etc...
[quote name='Rodimus']I'm trying to detect sarcasm. I'm not sure if you hated the game so much that you're trolling Enchanted Arms onto other people or genuinely enjoyed a game that everyone else hates.[/QUOTE]
It sounds to me like he does actually enjoy the game, but mainly because it seems to parody JRPGs (though probably not intentionally). And I can kind of see where he is coming from, Enchanted Arms is sort of so bad it's good, but ironically was also a prelude to a general lack in JRPG quality this gen (many of which are just bad, not so bad that they seem to almost parody their own genre).
/ I liked Xenogears pretty well. Maybe Xenoblade will be better?
that, lets make Makoto gay. Hell, lets make him a transvestiate, even better, lets make him a SUPER ULTRA MOTHER 
