Why is America full of anti-Americans?

Scrubking

Scrubking

CAGiversary!
In the early day when LEGAL immigrants came here from all over the world they where happy to be here, to take up the American flag and proclaim their loyalty to this wonderful and free country. Although they kept their heritage alive they were now Americans and proud of it.

Today, though, America is full of ungrateful America Haters who would rather see our soldiers get slaughtered than for our country to prevail in freeing the middle east. They would rather demonize our own troops for selfish gain, appeasing our enemies, than band together for a just cause - no matter how good or bad it is being handled. The news waves are saturated with anti-american rhetoric and eveyrwhere you turn people who dare call themselves Americans do nothing but blame America for everything that happens. Thousands were murdered at the WTC, it was our fault the America haters say. Islamic murderous, terrorist scum want to wipe out all people's and religions not their own, its America's fault the haters say. People are starving in Africa, its Americas fault the haters say. The WTC memorial, where thousands died, wants to be turned into a hate America first center. Illegals are invading our country by the truckload, but America haters say let them come and freely break the law.

Why do these people who so utterly hate our country live in it? Why do they enjoy its freedoms and privelages only to defame it at every chance? What ever happened to loving your country and wanting to fight for it? Protect it? Uphold its honor and name?
 
I think many people take their freedoms for granted, as the old saying goes "you dont know what you had until you lose it" rings true here.

The way the world works and the way life in general works is it has always been survival of the fitest. You can't name a single country that hasn't commited atrocities or did something for self-gain because everyone country in the world does it. It is not our job to police the world. In fact I'd be curious to know that if america were in the same boat as a country like africa is in now, if we would have all kinds of people all over the world wanting to help us out... i dont think they would.

I am proud to an american and i totally support the troops that protect our country, although i dont necessarily agree with the war we are in right now, or even giving iraq their freedom. I think its fucked up that their are actually people who disgrace the people who fight for our country. If you have a problem with the war then i think the anger and hatred should be directed towards the government.

I also feel like people are nieve, there isn't ever going to be peace in the world.
It's a nice concept but with the way people are it will never happen.

just my 2 cents.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']I also feel like people are nieve, there isn't ever going to be peace in the world.[/QUOTE]

...as long as there are dogmatic religions/ideologies.
 
Most of the people I know have this mentality:

"I support our troops. They are fighting for us and risking their lives. However, I don't support our president."

I don't really know how to classify that. Some would consider it Anti-American. I don't know; I don't judge people on that. I'm just glad that they recognize that our troops are risking it all out there, far away from home.
 
[quote name='camoor']...as long as there are dogmatic religions/ideologies.[/QUOTE]

i agree with the fact that religion causes more problems in the world than almost anythign else. Take for instance here in the US we have such a split in our country becuase of religion. Over in the middle-east they have been fighting forever over religion.
 
The people you call "America haters" are the real Americans, because instead of bending over and accepting poor leadership and restricting civil rights laws we actually stand up an protest, and try to keep America as it should be, land of the free.


The only people who bash America are the crazies and the religious nutjobs who think gay rights cause 9/11.
 
[quote name='onetrackmind']i agree with the fact that religion causes more problems in the world than almost anythign else. Take for instance here in the US we have such a split in our country becuase of religion. Over in the middle-east they have been fighting forever over religion.[/QUOTE]

And ideologies. I'm talking fascism, communism, basically any time an authority starts actively supressing any opposing positions.
 
A common mistake that a person like Scrub might make is confusing the "Anti-Americans" with people who think that "while the USA is still the best country in the world, things could still be a lot better". I've often heard "If you think that this country has a better health care system, or if you think that this country has a better moral code, then why don't you just move there!? If you don't like it here, get out!" No way, I'd rather live here than anywhere else, but that doesn't mean we should be content with our flaws (and we have many). Instead of the us-versus-them mentality that we have, we should look to incorporate the best features of other countries to improve ourselves.

Also, I don't know what you or anybody else means when they say "I support the troops", or "You don't support the troops." What exactly does this phrase mean? What are you actually doing to "support" (or help out) the troops, other than putting a magnetic ribbon on your car? Are you enlisting, or donating your time to veteran help centers?
 
[quote name='Scrubking']What ever happened to loving your country and wanting to fight for it? Protect it? Uphold its honor and name?[/QUOTE]
Why haven't you enlisted?
 
[quote name='Scrubking']Today, though, America is full of ungrateful America Haters who would rather see our soldiers get slaughtered than for our country to prevail in freeing the middle east. They would rather demonize our own troops for selfish gain, appeasing our enemies, than band together for a just cause - no matter how good or bad it is being handled. The news waves are saturated with anti-american rhetoric and eveyrwhere you turn people who dare call themselves Americans do nothing but blame America for everything that happens. Thousands were murdered at the WTC, it was our fault the America haters say. Islamic murderous, terrorist scum want to wipe out all people's and religions not their own, its America's fault the haters say. People are starving in Africa, its Americas fault the haters say. The WTC memorial, where thousands died, wants to be turned into a hate America first center. Illegals are invading our country by the truckload, but America haters say let them come and freely break the law.

Why do these people who so utterly hate our country live in it? Why do they enjoy its freedoms and privelages only to defame it at every chance? What ever happened to loving your country and wanting to fight for it? Protect it? Uphold its honor and name?[/QUOTE]

I just want to be clear on who the "America Haters" are. Do you mean Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell who on 9/12/01 blamed this country for the 9/11 attacks? Or is it George Bush who supports amnesty for illegals? Or do you mean all the conservatives who support the idea of a "War on Terrism" but refuse to fight it themselves?

If liberals really hated America, they'd just stand back, corner the handbasket market and watch as this administration runs it into the ground.
 
I think the problem here is that in recent years, certain peoples and administrations have been trying make "conservatism" synonymous with "American", which would lead to a lot of misconceptions and accusations.
 
Someone tell Scrub that:

1) Not all our soldiers are Republicans. He's welcome and prepared to help turn the balance in their favor (or further in their favor) if he enlists.

2) He needs to turn off Michael Savage, and read a book. None of that Hannity/O'Reilly/Franken bullshit, but some real political theory. Perhaps some Keynes economic theory, perhaps some Karl Marx, perhaps some Thomas Paine...you know, motherfucking THINKERS. Until then, all of his rants are going to come across like he plagiarized Rush Limbaugh's opening diatribe from any given show.

Why can't the righties learn to speak in terms of actual numbers, using data? Why can't they discuss theories that support their ideologies? Instead we get some kind of overgeneralized attribution with no evidence whatsoever.

Here's the major problem with anything that comes out of Scrub's craw:
http://changingminds.org/explanations/theories/fundamental_attribution_error.htm
 
[quote name='evilmax17']I think the problem here is that in recent years, certain peoples and administrations have been trying make "conservatism" synonymous with "American", which would lead to a lot of misconceptions and accusations.[/QUOTE]

Well, lefties have done a good job in assisting them symbolically, by allowing "flag" to equal "conservative. We all know that symbols mean much more than intellect (based on the perception of that symbol).
 
A common mistake that a person like Scrub might make is confusing the "Anti-Americans" with people who think that "while the USA is still the best country in the world, things could still be a lot better".
Click to expand...

There is a difference between disagreeing with your country and demonizing it. Saying that we might have problems in Gitmo is one thing, but calling it a Nazi camp and our soldiers the gestapo is another like our "good american" Turban did.

See the difference??

This country is full of people who can't simply disagree and civily try to work together to make things right. They have to attack, demonize and run the name of our country into the ground.

What ever happened to keeping our problems in house? Instead America Haters have to take public stages and shout to the world how bad we are and how much better they are than us.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']

This country is full of people who can't simply disagree and civily try to work together to make things right. They have to attack, demonize..[/QUOTE]

like this thread??

as for keeping our problems in house..what planet are you living on? A free press should be just that... free. Free to report on the good and the bad. And in the past, there really wasn't a "world stage". One of the consequences of a world media is more information gets out.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']There is a difference between disagreeing with your country and demonizing it. Saying that we might have problems in Gitmo is one thing, but calling it a Nazi camp and our soldiers the gestapo is another like our "good american" Turban did.

See the difference??
[/QUOTE]

Yes. But the number of people in the latter example is relatively low. There are tons of people who are not completely satisfied with our country right now, and that's a good thing - hopefully we can make it better (healthcare, social security, tax code, the list is endless, really).

There really aren't that many people who actively want this country to fail - they just get lots of media attention nowadays.

Furthermore, everyone seems to want to generalize and lump people together into huge groups, e.g. all conservatives are religious maniacs who bomb abortion clinics, and all liberals hate America and are pro-Islam. This is ridiculous. Those of us who do not like the current administration are not anti-American (well, most of us).
 
Scrubking thinks he's all-american, yet he supports a man who betrayed the country by leaking classified information to retaliate against a whistle-blower all for political gain.
 
I'm really not fond of what America is becoming, but I'm quite fond of what it's supposed to be.

There are any number of supporting statements I could give, but honestly, this is such a worn out subject, its not worth my time.
 
There's two major camps lately it seems, the ones who view the flag as the most important thing, and those who view the constitution and american liberties as the most important thing. Scrub falls into the first group.
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']There's two major camps lately it seems, the ones who view the flag as the most important thing, and those who view the constitution and american liberties as the most important thing. Scrub falls into the first group.[/QUOTE]

I don't think scrub knows what he's talking about. His views are pretty centered. I rather spend my time talking to someone that's open minded. Spending time talking to him won't be productive nor beneficial.
 
[quote name='evilmax17']I think the problem here is that in recent years, certain peoples and administrations have been trying make "conservatism" synonymous with "American", which would lead to a lot of misconceptions and accusations.[/QUOTE]

They have been doing this for forever. Look at Reagan
 
[quote name='evilmax17']I think the problem here is that in recent years, certain peoples and administrations have been trying make "conservatism" synonymous with "American", which would lead to a lot of misconceptions and accusations.[/QUOTE]

Good points. I'd add to your list "support the president" and "support the war" as being somehow necessary to be a "real American." I'm hoping that Scrub really means the fringe elements who really do want to destroy the values that make this country so great, and by that I mean fringe elements to the Right and Left.
 
Scrub: You still haven't said exactly how you're showing your support for this war? Have you enlisted? Are you doing more than speaking out on this forum about people who "hate" America? Were you so disgusted with 9-11 that you went to NYC to volunteer to help with the relief efforts? Have you campaigned for a particular candidate? Did you vote in the last election & furthermore, help get people to the polls? Because no matter what, the only ones that deserve to be complaining, left or right side of the political spectrum, are those who are actively participating in the government/organizations that aid the growth of this country (& that's whether or not you agree with their cause). Being a mere consumer in this country does not mean you're serving your civil duties. If you don't like what's going on, get off your ass and do something about it, something that will uphold the rights granted in our Constitution.
 
people that hate america stay in america not because of america, but rather for money or self power. it's as simple as that. america is too nice to kick them out, which is one of the great things about america.
 
i think alot of people also say they hate america is because times are harder now on alot of families than they were when "cough" clinton was in office. and i dont know bout you guys but i have family who is enlisted in the army and i support them morally and spiritually but i for one would not enlist in the army because i would then be forced to fight wars i do not agree with as this current one. and i have much pride and respect for anyone who is in any for of the military.
but i also believe this is all going on because of bush in my opinion he has turned this country into a petrified over religious country and actually combined church and state.because he had people who never voted coming out to vote for him just for the simple fact he was christian and said he would protect them. sorry if my stuff doesnt make alot of sense to some of you but i felt i needed to let that out i dont know bout you guys but bush cant seem to get out of office quick enough.
 
[quote name='Scrubking']There is a difference between disagreeing with your country and demonizing it. Saying that we might have problems in Gitmo is one thing, but calling it a Nazi camp and our soldiers the gestapo is another like our "good american" Turban did. QUOTE]

Did you listen to Dick Durbin's WHOLE speech? If you didn't sit down and shut up about it.
 
Well look at what America has done. Too many things to name but basically almost every other country hates us, citizens are dying at war over a complete mess, and the government hasn't controlled the killing in our own country. Plus, I went to the Bahamas last week, and the people there were way friendlier than Americans.
 
You confuse hating america and using the liberties our fore fathers gave to us. They gave us the right to complain about our government as much as we want. This is a gov for the people and the people have a right to agree or disagree. The original patriots would hate a country of yesmen and people who have their liberties taken away.

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness" Dec of Independence

It is AMERICAN to speak up when you think the government is giving u a raw deal not sit there and take.

I personally would have no problem defending my country in war as long as I felt it was a just cause, but I do not think it is a just fight right now. I support our troops a 100%, as well as most other people against the war, but we dont have to like the war or the people who sent the sons and daughters of America to Iraq to die.
 
I'm here because I want to sabotage Americans and take away a decent job and a spot at one of the best universities from a true American. (I'm kidding but I've had rednecks accuse me of that before, lol)

Although if supporting America requires me to support the US government's backing (through aid, arms sales, and training) of governments such as the one in Indonesia that slaughtered over a million innocent people, fuck that.
 
Let me guess Viet. They ask where you come from, you mention California or some other state and say "No where do you REALLY come from?!" assuming you're a FOB because you're Asian.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']Let me guess Viet. They ask where you come from, you mention California or some other state and say "No where do you REALLY come from?!" assuming you're a FOB because you're Asian.[/QUOTE]

Haha, yeah, despite the fact that I speak English with no Asian accent (I'm an ABV, lol).

I don't get why some people interpret being "American" as shutting up and not exercising the right of freedom of speech. What's the point of being proud of our freedom if we don't bother to exercise it?
 
[quote name='alonzomourning23']There's two major camps lately it seems, the ones who view the flag as the most important thing, and those who view the constitution and american liberties as the most important thing. Scrub falls into the first group.[/QUOTE]


"oh no I got categorized so I'll be a hypocrite and categorize him."
 
[quote name='vietgurl']Haha, yeah, despite the fact that I speak English with no Asian accent (I'm an ABV, lol).

I don't get why some people interpret being "American" as shutting up and not exercising the right of freedom of speech. What's the point of being proud of our freedom if we don't bother to exercise it?[/QUOTE]

Who knows? Maybe they don't remember the Constitution although they seem to remember speaking up when a Democrat is in office.
Viet you know what I think is really bad? When the Asian person is BORN here and they can't speak English for SHIT! Case in point Baby V.O.X. They were born here and their English is shitty. It's because they were never around enough people speaking English when they were young and so forth and as well throughout the day. I can understand how for Koreans and other Asians how it's disheartening when they're talented actors, musicians, etc. and the public won't give them the play because of racism and public attitude. Coco Lee is the most POPULAR artist in Taiwan or Hong Kong or BOTH and she was born here! Ming Na Wen can BARELY get a film part here. I just find this type of shit utterly pathetic but I have to say the sacrifice has to be made. Some Asian American artist just has to keep pushing and pushing here and be talented enough. This artist may not break through and sell huge #'s but they'll create a first step that others can go upon to higher level and so on and so forth. I don't think it helps in the HISPANIC community when some of them don't wanna contribute shit and bury their heads in the sand and only listen to Mexican and no Mexican American music. You're AMERICAN, you were born here and stop fucking trying to deny it! X-(
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']Why haven't you enlisted?[/QUOTE]

I'm still waiting for this question to be answered.

The best way to lead, is to lead by example.... and the best way to fix the system is from within.
 
[quote name='dmpolska']"oh no I got categorized so I'll be a hypocrite and categorize him."[/QUOTE]

Showing I hate america would be much more difficult than showing scrubking values america and its symbols more than american principles.
 
[quote name='Mookyjooky']I'm still waiting for this question to be answered.

The best way to lead, is to lead by example.... and the best way to fix the system is from within.[/QUOTE]

I join my distinguished colleague from Charlottesville in demanding to know why Scrubking hasn't enlisted in the armed services.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness" Dec of Independence

[/QUOTE]

Thanks for that information. I myself try to point that out to many as well, that those who truly support the ideals are willing to go against this country or even overthrow it in order to support it. Not that many hear would, but the point is symbolic. Some people support the flag, others support the bill of rights.

I would like to say though that all of the blame cannot fall upon Bush. While his presidency has brought about questionable policy, there is a changing climate within the US that is far beyond even his control.
 
[quote name='camoor']I join my distinguished colleague from Charlottesville in demanding to know why Scrubking hasn't enlisted in the armed services.[/QUOTE]

It's because he talks the talk but is too afraid to walk the walk.
 
[quote name='coffman']It's because he talks the talk but is too afraid to walk the walk.[/QUOTE]

*snif* maybe, one day, he too can become President of the United States of America! *snif*
 
I think he has the right to voice his opinion, hes an american who pays taxes and "hopefully" votes... but he sounds like he has some deep seeded issues that call for him to take some action. I think you have some great ideas and alot of work to do. You sound genuinely concerned and I truely believe you have the ability to do it. Go for it, and I wish you well in all your world changing endevors. Let us know how you decide to tackle this issue head-on... we'll stand by you and will be ready to help. ;-)
 
[quote name='Dirt']I guess Scrub was anti American when Clinton was in. Since not supporting the president = Anti American.[/QUOTE]

I know this thread is pretty dead, but I was just wondering the same thing: why is it that criticizing the President is only unamerican when it's a Republican in office? Where were all the "If you hate America so much, why are you here?" asshats when Gingrich called Clinton a scumbag on public record? All I know is, I'm stockpiling every stupid "love it or leave it" comment I come across so I can trot it out when a Democrat is in office.
 
[quote name='trq']I know this thread is pretty dead, but I was just wondering the same thing: why is it that criticizing the President is only unamerican when it's a Republican in office? Where were all the "If you hate America so much, why are you here?" asshats when Gingrich called Clinton a scumbag on public record? All I know is, I'm stockpiling every stupid "love it or leave it" comment I come across so I can trot it out when a Democrat is in office.[/QUOTE]

I think it's related to the very essence of (generalized) concepts of "liberal" and "conservative," in which the former advocates change and progression (which necessitates discontent with the status quo), while the latter is either content with the status quo, or a previous way of doing things (which necessitates romanticism with a previous period of American politics and culture).

Is that true? Nah, but those are the stereotypes. Conservatives love democracy and laissez-faire capitalism, unless the latter includes porn and abortion clinics. Liberals favor equality for race, gender, and religion (among other categories) over the "market forces."
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I think it's related to the very essence of (generalized) concepts of "liberal" and "conservative," in which the former advocates change and progression (which necessitates discontent with the status quo), while the latter is either content with the status quo, or a previous way of doing things (which necessitates romanticism with a previous period of American politics and culture).

Is that true? Nah, but those are the stereotypes. Conservatives love democracy and laissez-faire capitalism, unless the latter includes porn and abortion clinics. Liberals favor equality for race, gender, and religion (among other categories) over the "market forces."[/QUOTE]

Corrections.

Conservatives love democracy and laissez-faire capitalism when it suits them and think both should be reigned in when it doesn't. See: the Patriot Act, Bush's support for steel tariffs, federal interference into certain state issues.

Liberals no longer favor equality, unless just in words. Racist/sexist policies like affirmative action are supported by liberals generally now.

At least both parties can agree on being hypocritical.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Corrections.

Conservatives love democracy and laissez-faire capitalism when it suits them and think both should be reigned in when it doesn't. See: the Patriot Act, Bush's support for steel tariffs, federal interference into certain state issues.

Liberals no longer favor equality, unless just in words. Racist/sexist policies like affirmative action are supported by liberals generally now.

At least both parties can agree on being hypocritical.[/QUOTE]

AA programs are retroactive attempts to reverse discrimination in the job market. Please don't tell me that you think no discrimination exists in the job market. Please.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']AA programs are retroactive attempts to reverse discrimination in the job market. Please don't tell me that you think no discrimination exists in the job market. Please.[/QUOTE]

Did I say no discrimination exists? I merely stated AA is a racist/sexist policy, which it is. It promotes discrimination on the basis of race and/or sex.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']AA programs are retroactive attempts to reverse discrimination in the job market. Please don't tell me that you think no discrimination exists in the job market. Please.[/QUOTE]

I read somewhere that a lot of places favor hiring Asians because they think that Asians have good work ethics.

Damn us all, we're taking jobs away from hard working Americans :lol:
 
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