Xbox One=Death to Collecting

meta460085

meta460085

CAGiversary!
I'm an avid collector of games (among other media) and it seems my collecting days are coming to a close at the end of this generation since its looking like the Xbox One will be requiring to "phone home" once a day to play games. In 10 or 15 years when servers are shut off it will render all games unplayable. I assume the PS4 will follow similar strategy. Am I the only one who is concerned about this?
 
I stopped purchasing physical copies of PC games for the same reason. The shift away from individually packaged goods made it pointless.

There is still collecting that can be done. But going forward, it won't be for acquiring the "normal" copy of the game. If a physical copy doesn't come with a fancy box and an artbook, it won't be worth acquiring for collectible purposes. There are still means for a product to be made collectible, they just aren't going to be related to the distribution of the game itself.
 
I've never been a collector of games. I'm more concerned about losing the ability to resell games as I don't want to get stuck with discs I can do nothing with after beating the game (since I almost never replay things).

Overall, with digital media I hate all the DRM etc. for sure--and wish things would all go DRM free like music.

But I've never been the collector type, and I'm OCD about having shit cluttering up my home--so I hate my racks full of movies and CDs (those are getting boxed up and left boxed up next time I move as they're all ripped to MP3 and I never listen to CDs anymore) etc. So digital media is appealing as I can access things more quickly than digging out a disc, and can keep my home uncluttered in a fully digital world.
 
I'll never stop collecting. The only PC games I've ever bought digital were ones with no retail release and always $5 or less. Never bought any digital music unless it was free from Amazon, as there's tons of free EDM podcasts of radio shows from overseas to listen to in the car. I really should be selling all these DC of movies I get because I don't use them ever lol.

I think M$ made huge mistakes this gen and I'd hope Sony won't surprise us with similar dealings. Either way, as long as it's physical, I'll keep buying.
 
I always bought games to play them, but with that I ended up with a bit of a backlog (like most of us). So I've had more games sitting around then I'd like. It sometimes worked out in my favor, as I sold off some stuff at high prices since the demand was higher for sealed copies.

The thing I don't like is not being able to sell something off when I'm done with it. That's the part of this whole equation that sucks.

To be honest I've gotten a lot more use to digital only and much like dmaul I'd prefer not to have all the clutter of games\CDs\etc. I also admit that I really am a fan of the convenience of digital media whether it be games, books, movies, or music.

I've been toying with simplifying next gen and getting only 1 console so I might just get 1, go digital only and move literally from 1 game to the next instead of having a huge backlog.

I'd say if collecting is your thing as far as digital goes I'd say STEAM is the way to go since you can at least move those from one computer to the next.

While it's obviously not ideal I feel like we are only delaying the inevitable of a digital only future.
 
I'm totally with you on going with only one console and just moving from one game to the next and not having a backlog.

I sort of did that for the middle of this generation when I was down to only a 360 for a while. I never had a backlog of more than two or three games. I enjoyed gaming more as I didn't feel pressured to rush through games to get on to the next one to get through the backlog like I do now (have maybe 15 games to play), was only playing AAA blockbuster games in genres I love rather than getting disenchanted with gaming from trying stuff I wasn't really enjoying etc.

I don't know that I'll go digital only if the trade in systems can at least net me $10-20 on most games after beating them as that's about all I make selling stuff on Amazon after fees etc. these days as I'm rarely selling things close to launch when values are high.

But I'm not as opposed to it as some for the reasons above and in my first reply.
 
In a strange way, Microsoft has kind of done me a favor.

I am a collector, and always will be. It's a fun hobby that I enjoy. But with the expanded role that video game development has attained, collecting individual games is only going to get harder and harder. More games are being produced every year, and this trend is only going to keep expanding.

By pushing hard for a shift to a digital future, Microsoft is bringing the age of physical media to a close. This puts an end to games as collectible items, but it also places a finite limit on my goals as a collector. The pool of collectible games is now X big, and will grow no larger. Collecting and cataloguing the past of the game industry will now become much easier. (and less financially ruinous) I also won't feel nearly as much impetus to gather up all of the latest titles. As they are not truly collectible, I can purchase them purely for the experience, as opposed to hoarding a physical product.
 
I think another thing is gaming will eventually be a service as opposed to a buying game x, similar to the music industry (Spotify, Pandora, etc). I would have thought some of the XBOX Live games would have transferred over even if they were using an emulator of some sort but we might be a little way away from that power wise. I feel like Playstation Plus has started us down this road though and stuff like the Virtual Console preserves some of those older gems so we no longer need those physical goods. I guess the only real problem is we lose a lot of those hidden gems in the shuffle like a Brave Fencer Musashi or a Silent Bomber.

I'm guessing though at some point we'll have a Netflix of games. It's happening now with the movie\TV industry where content holders have been holding out getting off of the cable plans but it seems like the tides are slowly changing due to demand. I guess the question now is when.
 
I won't buy any system that makes the discs useless. I have no interest in a digital only device. I've only ever bought games on Steam when they are $1-10 as they are rentals. People who pay more than $10 for Digital Only DRM downloads must like throwing money away. When the servers are shutdown, your game "collection" is gone.
 
Actually, one of the exciting development going forward in game development is the potential in experimentation with payment models and different forms of play. And a lot of that is going to change thanks to cheaper and more accessible development tools. The recent announcement of Unity's free-to-develop options for smartphones is going to allow for a lot more game design experiments.
 
[quote name='UjnHunter']I won't buy any system that makes the discs useless. I have no interest in a digital only device. I've only ever bought games on Steam when they are $1-10 as they are rentals. People who pay more than $10 for Digital Only DRM downloads must like throwing money away. When the servers are shutdown, your game "collection" is gone.[/QUOTE]

1. A lot of people don't replay games, or care about collecting them. So it's moot as they're just paying a fee to play the game once regardless of whether its a disc game or a downlad. Only difference is there's not physical copy that can be resold to recoup some funds, so prices go up with digital gaming.

2. Value is all relative to how much you enjoy a game and how much money you make. When I joined the site as a broke ass grad student (and lurked as an undergrad before that) I would have ranted and raved about digital only, used game restictions etc. as I could only game by getting great deals.

Now that I make 4-5 times what I did back then I don't care that much. My times more valuable than saving a little money, so I don't mind the idea of paying $40-60 for a digital game I can't resell and reselling is a hassle anyway. And the value is there as those prices for a game--especially a long game--aren't bad at all compared to paying $12 for a 2D movie at my local theater or $17 for a 3D showing which I do pretty regularly. Games are a better $/hr entertainment investment in that sense--though that's balanced by my enjoying movies more than gaming.

To each their own in terms of what they prefer, what they're willing to pay for it etc.
 
Sounds like I'm just ol school, I like the convineince of digital distribution. I use iTunes and Amazons mp3 store but being DRM free means I'll likely always be able to listen to those so long as society doesn't collapse and we lose power. But from what it seems the XOne will need to ping M$ servers once a day so eventually those servers will be shut off and the games will be lost forever and that rubs me in the worst way. Imagine if there was a decade worth of music you purchased but you no longer could listen to it and there is no other place to repurchase or any other way to listen to it, its just gone forever. That's what will happen eventually with XOne games.
 
[quote name='meta460085']Sounds like I'm just ol school, I like the convineince of digital distribution. I use iTunes and Amazons mp3 store but being DRM free means I'll likely always be able to listen to those so long as society doesn't collapse and we lose power. But from what it seems the XOne will need to ping M$ servers once a day so eventually those servers will be shut off and the games will be lost forever and that rubs me in the worst way. Imagine if there was a decade worth of music you purchased but you no longer could listen to it and there is no other place to repurchase or any other way to listen to it, its just fine forever. That's what will happen eventually with XOne games.[/QUOTE]

That is true. But while I listen to music I bought in the 90s, I don't have any interest in replaying old games. I've never been much for replaying games, so it's just not something that affects me.

Music and movies, yes for sure as those have a lot of replay value for me. Video games and books I don't care much as I rarely replay/re-read.

But it is a valid and major concern for people who do go back and replay classic games. Those will likely require re-purchasing on virtual consoles (like on the Wii and 3DS) in future generations.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']That is true. But while I listen to music I bought in the 90s, I don't have any interest in replaying old games. I've never been much for replaying games, so it's just not something that affects me.

Music and movies, yes for sure as those have a lot of replay value for me. Video games and books I don't care much as I rarely replay/re-read.

But it is a valid and major concern for people who do go back and replay classic games. Those will likely require re-purchasing on virtual consoles (like on the Wii and 3DS) in future generations.[/QUOTE]

When I get together with friends after a few drinks the Dreamcast comes out for some Power Stone, the OG Xbox comes out for some Fuzion Frenzy (don't judge) and Time Splitters 2 and in the future this scenario wont be possible with the next generation of consoles if they use such a restrictive DRM.
 
Preach Meta! I'm also a collector and see it soon as a dead hobby. On the bright side, I can only imagine how valuable my current collector's editions will become. Yet even if they don't become rare, I still will feel great satisfaction in knowing that I own these gems in physical form.
 
[quote name='meta460085']Sounds like I'm just ol school, I like the convineince of digital distribution. I use iTunes and Amazons mp3 store but being DRM free means I'll likely always be able to listen to those so long as society doesn't collapse and we lose power. But from what it seems the XOne will need to ping M$ servers once a day so eventually those servers will be shut off and the games will be lost forever and that rubs me in the worst way. Imagine if there was a decade worth of music you purchased but you no longer could listen to it and there is no other place to repurchase or any other way to listen to it, its just gone forever. That's what will happen eventually with XOne games.[/QUOTE]

I think I used to think this way and I'll admit it would be nice if Microsoft before shutting down X1 servers sent out an update that made the games we bought and installed ours to keep forever. The thing is the more I think about it now, there are probably a lot of collectors that say well what if in 25 years I want to pop in game "x" and play it? The real truth is though is that that same person who goes back to a game 25 years later probably has another 100-1000 games that they will never touch in their lifetime. They have it though if they ever want to! It's their validation to have a huge collection. They probably even own games they would hate (they just don't know it yet since they haven't played them) and wouldn't want to play ever again. I realize that collecting isn't all about playing but then you might as well collect the game for the artwork which seems like we will still be getting.

I have a fairly large collection of mp3s on my hard drive right now from cd rips, purchases, etc. that doesn't get used as much as I thought it would. My wife usually puts on Pandora now when she wants to listen to music. It's nice to know it's waiting there for me and I can back it up but sometimes I wonder do I really need all of this?

I'm not saying it's fair for a company like Microsoft to control your game life or anyone's hobby but I've kind of lost my "some day" "nostalgia" itch as this point and just try to enjoy things for what they are now. I find myself getting to the games I actually want to play now which to me is the whole point.
 
[quote name='Richard Kain']By pushing hard for a shift to a digital future, Microsoft is bringing the age of physical media to a close. This puts an end to games as collectible items, but it also places a finite limit on my goals as a collector. The pool of collectible games is now X big, and will grow no larger. Collecting and cataloguing the past of the game industry will now become much easier. (and less financially ruinous) I also won't feel nearly as much impetus to gather up all of the latest titles. As they are not truly collectible, I can purchase them purely for the experience, as opposed to hoarding a physical product.[/QUOTE]

Oh man, this sounds like some type of disease!
 
[quote name='jkam']
I have a fairly large collection of mp3s on my hard drive right now from cd rips, purchases, etc. that doesn't get used as much as I thought it would. My wife usually puts on Pandora now when she wants to listen to music. It's nice to know it's waiting there for me and I can back it up but sometimes I wonder do I really need all of this?
[/quote]

I'm much the same, though I do listen to my MP3s when working, running and driving a good bit. But I definitely probably don't need the 8,000 some songs my girlfriend and I have as I tend to mainly listen to my 10 or so favorite artists that I've been listening to for 10+ years. And also use Pandora and Last.fm a good bit.

But at the same time, the nice thing about a digital collection is it isn't cluttering up the house and MP3 files are small enough that even a large collection is negligible on modern hard drive capacities--unlike movies and games.

But the part of your post I bolded is definitely something my girlfriend and I have been asking ourselves a lot lately as we want to move around a good bit for the next several years rather than settle down in one place--would like to live abroad a while etc. So we're both feeling a bit oppressed by owning so much stuff we seldom use. Be it having 300 some movies when we hardly watch them and usually watch Netflix, clothes we don't wear often etc.

I'm not saying it's fair for a company like Microsoft to control your game life or anyone's hobby but I've kind of lost my "some day" "nostalgia" itch as this point and just try to enjoy things for what they are now. I find myself getting to the games I actually want to play now which to me is the whole point.
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Me too. I enjoy gaming a lot more when I stick to new AAA games in genres I enjoy rather than trying to branch out into other areas, lesser reviewed games or classics.

Even better when I have no backlog and can just enjoy a game fully and not buy another one until I'm totally done with it and ready for something new to play--which is how I'm going to go about gaming once I get my current gen backlog cleared out.
 
[quote name='jkam']I think I used to think this way and I'll admit it would be nice if Microsoft before shutting down X1 servers sent out an update that made the games we bought and installed ours to keep forever. The thing is the more I think about it now, there are probably a lot of collectors that say we'll what if in 25 years I want to pop in game "x" and play it? The real truth is though is that that same person who goes back to a game 25 years later probably has another 100-1000 games that they will never touch in their lifetime. They have it though if they ever want to! It's their validation to have a huge collection. They probably even own games they would hate (they just don't know it yet since they haven't played them) and wouldn't want to play ever again. I realize that collecting isn't all about playing but then you might as well collect the game for the artwork which seems like we will still be getting.

I have a fairly large collection of mp3s on my hard drive right now from cd rips, purchases, etc. that doesn't get used as much as I thought it would. My wife usually puts on Pandora now when she wants to listen to music. It's nice to know it's waiting there for me and I can back it up but sometimes I wonder do I really need all of this?

I'm not saying it's fair for a company like Microsoft to control your game life or anyone's hobby but I've kind of lost my "some day" "nostalgia" itch as this point and just try to enjoy things for what they are now. I find myself getting to the games I actually want to play now which to me is the whole point.[/QUOTE]

You know what, you're absolutely right, the person you described is me and I'll say what any gentleman would say when backed into a corner with use of sound logic... "yea but still." Lol, but seriously you're correct and I'm sure M$ and Sony are counting on the younger gen that's used to not owning media and grew up on services like Pandora, Netflix and such to be fine with not owning what they paid for. That being said since we wont own next Gen games then the price should reflect that. Netflix is $8 a month, Pandora is about the same so gives us everything for $10-15 a month and when the servers go dark I can't bitch about it but charging "buy" prices for "rental" service sucks donkey dicks.
 
[quote name='meta460085']..but charging "buy" prices for "rental" service sucks donkey dicks.[/QUOTE]

That I can agree with.

That's why I think the eventually future--again decades down the road--is that everything will be subscription-based, cloud streaming services. Easier to do rental pricing that way, than by selling individual titles.

If it's done right it will be good for consumers (other than collectors) as they can pay a monthly fee and have access to everything, and good for publishers as they're getting monthly fees from everyone--the people only watching a movie or two a week, or paying a game or two a month, or paying the same as the hardcore users.

So they'll make less of the hardcore market, but more than make it up by making more off gamers paying a monthly fee to just mainly play CoD or Madden who are currently only buying a handful of games a year at most.
 
[quote name='meta460085']You know what, you're absolutely right, the person you described is me and I'll say what any gentleman would say when backed into a corner with use of sound logic... "yea but still." Lol, but seriously you're correct and I'm sure M$ and Sony are counting on the younger gen that's used to not owning media and grew up on services like Pandora, Netflix and such to be fine with not owning what they paid for. That being said since we wont own next Gen games then the price should reflect that. Netflix is $8 a month, Pandora is about the same so gives us everything for $10-15 a month and when the servers go dark I can't bitch about it but charging "buy" prices for "rental" service sucks donkey dicks.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='dmaul1114']That I can agree with.

That's why I think the eventually future--again decades down the road--is that everything will be subscription-based, cloud streaming services. Easier to do rental pricing that way, than by selling individual titles.

If it's done right it will be good for consumers (other than collectors) as they can pay a monthly fee and have access to everything, and good for publishers as they're getting monthly fees from everyone--the people only watching a movie or two a week, or paying a game or two a month, or paying the same as the hardcore users.

So they'll make less of the hardcore market, but more than make it up by making more off gamers paying a monthly fee to just mainly play CoD or Madden who are currently only buying a handful of games a year at most.[/QUOTE]

A very good point about pricing as well as a good reply! It's true I think we are in the unfortunate position of being smack dab in the middle of a "growing pains" generation. Fun.
 
Part of the fun of gaming for me is collecting/owning the physical artifacts. (I also have a large physical music collection.) It's not going to kill gaming for me when that aspect of the hobby is diminished or nonexistent, but I think it will dampen my enthusiasm to some extent. That could be a good thing though in that playing fewer new games every year will give me time to catch up on the backlog.
 
I'm in the same boat as you OP.

When I buy something I expect it to work more than 10 years. Especially as a CAG, I can't see myself throwing my collection away every generation because of these ridiculous restrictions MS could put in place. In the future if I want to show my kid some old game from my collection, this will no longer be possible.

I will not buy a perishable video game, fuck that.
 
[quote name='dreamerslost']is this the end of Gamefly?[/QUOTE]

No one knows yet. Maybe they'll allow some time limited license system for rentals or something. Just have to wait and see.
 
[quote name='antlp89']I'm in the same boat as you OP.

When I buy something I expect it to work more than 10 years. Especially as a CAG, I can't see myself throwing my collection away every generation because of these ridiculous restrictions MS could put in place. In the future if I want to show my kid some old game from my collection, this will no longer be possible.

I will not buy a perishable video game, fuck that.[/QUOTE]

Alright Sega, Time to start working on Dreamcast 2. With Sony and M$ not caring about the gamer and Nintendo being in la-la land its time.
 
Steam gave me reasons not to give a shit about collecting anymore, as long as the prices are cheap.
Of course the problem lies within the xbox one not being backwards, and possibly the future console not being backwards with xbox one.
 
Well, think I'm gonna sit the next generation out and as a occasional PC gamer I think it will become my primary platform.
 
The interesting thing is that Gamestop seems to be enthusiastic about the Xbox One. They were pushing it when we were there recently. So I think they must have worked it out with Microsoft. They see profits somehow.
 
No more Freedom for America

NoFreedom.jpg
 
[quote name='crunchewy']The interesting thing is that Gamestop seems to be enthusiastic about the Xbox One. They were pushing it when we were there recently. So I think they must have worked it out with Microsoft. They see profits somehow.[/QUOTE]

The way used game sales will work for the Xbone requires sellers to go through a company that has signed up to use Microsoft's registration system. Then they can buy the game, kill it on your account, and resell it.

Of course gamestop loves that. They can still buy and sell games while user to user trades are greatly hindered (if not impossible). They'll still have to pay a fee for each used game sold, but that's better than no resales at all.
 
I know these internet campaigns rarely achieve any success but if Sony listens then PS4 will be my console of choice. Link http://kotaku.com/ps4nodrm-the-next-gen-twitter-campaign-thats-got-son-510143287
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']The way used game sales will work for the Xbone requires sellers to go through a company that has signed up to use Microsoft's registration system. Then they can buy the game, kill it on your account, and resell it.

Of course gamestop loves that. They can still buy and sell games while user to user trades are greatly hindered (if not impossible). They'll still have to pay a fee for each used game sold, but that's better than no resales at all.[/QUOTE]

I'm guessing that with all the blowback they'll at the very least allow users to sell and trade games themselves by offering a way to deactivate a game through the console and get a new activation code you can give to whoever you sell/trade with.

Maybe not, but I can't seem them sticking with limiting it only to retailers with all the blow back they've gotten.

They have to include some kind of DLC if they're going to allow/require games to be installed and played without the disc in the systems. And I think people could accept that if they can easily transfer the license to someone else and thus keep control over selling/trading games after they're done with them.

MS may be stubborn and stick with a very restrictive DRM scheme, but they'd really be shooting themselves in the foot if they do so. Even more so if Sony doesn't do the same.
 
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it's kind've screwed up for the smaller companies. Gamestop wont have a problem implementing the Azure solution.

They will turn to smaller businesses, which often aren't making big money anyways, and be like "no prob we can get you setup only 25k a year for the licensing/etc"
 
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