TimboSliceGB
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Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.
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I suggested this a while back, why don't one of you who are buying it start an "Xbox One Future Owners Thread" for that type of discussion, make it clear in the OP that's what it's for and report off topic posts if people don't adhere.
I'm going to go ahead and make that post since no one did. Since this one has "hope you have an internet connection" in the title it's the logical place for this DRM discussion.
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Wrathofoprah
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I dont think its accurate or fair to compare Steam DRM to Xbox One DRM without considering the carrots on the end of the stick, especially when you talk about people "dying for a steam console". Well they are, but not because of the drm.
ChunLiBarbie
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Damn Timbo! Lmao! Was going to change rampling to rambling and add 'many' after 'how'. Ugh new quoting functions.
Now, I shall read your response.
Now, I shall read your response.
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This is the first time to happen for those that game on consoles exclusively. PC Gamers are not the ones mad at the Xbox One, it is console gamers. People might be more receptive to a steambox because they know steam will give them good deals. Microsoft won't be able to provide those crazy deals, cause brick and mortar retailers will not be happy with that. Microsoft needs them to make shelf space available for physical games and hardware.
Nobody(maybe a rare few) is bashing those that come in here and say they are fine with the xbox one. It is those that get into an argument defending Microsoft's drm/used game restrictions that are getting attacked.
TimboSliceGB
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people don't love steam for indies games they love steam seeing they get amazin prices becasue steam has no used games holding the prices up. Same thing with amazon digital games seeing you cna't sell those games publishers allow amazon to do crazy sales.
Here's a link to the Xbox One Future owners thread: http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/313133-the-xbox-one-future-owners-discussion-thread-no-drm-debates-etc/?p=10732892
Let's keep the DRM etc. debates here and leave that thread for people who don't care about it/aren't affected by it and are excited for the X1 to discuss the console.
Let's keep the DRM etc. debates here and leave that thread for people who don't care about it/aren't affected by it and are excited for the X1 to discuss the console.
TimboSliceGB
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alot of xbox users are pc gamers that is knowing fact. so everyone that sticks up for ms deserves to be bashed?
x1 looks like it will have great x1 only games im not getting it at launch im getting ps4 but plan on getting x1 next spring to play some of the great x1 only games i played at e3.
people voted EA has worst compnay in the u.s but they are still one of the best selling publisher in gaming industry.
If they can properly defend their position on why Microsoft's DRM/Used game restrictions is good for us, they won't be bashed. Simple as that. Which none of them has so far done but drinking Microsoft's Kool-Aid.
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I wasnt aware the mods would let us do that. "That" being to have a thread dedicated toward a owners club type of thread where we could report bashing/off topic posts and have them removed.
I guess if it works this thread title could be changed to Xbox One - DRM Discussion or something.
Since that vote, EA stock has been golden. (40%+ increase? Yes please) Wish I owned more of it tbh, but selling Google shares at this point in time seems premature.
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TimboSliceGB
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why does someone have to say why they are good for everyone? most people here just say why they don't mind it and they get bashed i have yet seen anyone telling people they better buy a x1 or else. Just because they stand up for ms does not mean they are telling people they need to buy a x1.
people saying your are not a TRUE gamer if you buy a xbox one is just dumb and that has been said all over the place on this board
Isn't that the point of this whole argument? One side defends Microsoft and trys to convince us why it is nothing, and the otherside counters that these policies are anti-consumer. If they didn't want to pour gasoline into the fire, they shouldn't had defended Microsoft's actions simple as that. I have no issue with those buying an xbox one as I said before, just those coming in here defending Microsoft's position. If they are going to defend them just be ready to be attacked by those that don't like these DRM/Used game restrictions policies.
I can't speak for other people but I don't associate with that "you're not a true gamer" nonsense if you get an xbox one. Just here for a mature discussion on the anti-consumer drm and used game restrictions.
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Superstar
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You kill me LOLWho cares? That argument is what's idiotic. To simply turn a blind eye because it does not affect you personally is apathy, and that apathy affects those who do care and those who it will affect. This mindset comes from not only Microsoft fanboys and apologists, but also includes the low information consumers who have no idea what Microsoft is doing as to the XBone, and will go out and buy it because little Johnny wants his new game console and all his friends are going to be getting one as well. Of course they will spend their money how they like it. People have made bad decisions with their money throughout the ages, hence P.T. Barnum's phrase, "There's a sucker born every minute." That doesn't mean I cannot voice my displeasure with Microsoft's draconian DRM policies, and I think that is what most of us are doing.The fact of the matter is some people care about DRM and some people don't. Also, some people may care, but they will still get the Xbox One because they will want to play it's exclusives. Jumping on anyone who is going to buy a difference console than you is immature, and stupid. The argument "oh you are a part of ruining the gaming industry" is idiotic as well. Let people spend money on what they want. This whole "war" talk is also funny. Unless you are working for either company, who cares? When I go to a store and buy a Pepsi I don't think "oh!! I got Coca-Cola!!!! The war is on!!!! They won't get my $1.50!!"
To date, I have yet to hear one solid argument from Microsoft as to how its DRM policies are going to benefit me as a consumer as a whole when at the same time they are taking away my consumer rights. Now if there were some believable arguments we might be able to have an in intelligible debate about it, but Microsoft has failed to present any coherent policy, especially as to its family sharing (how exactly does it work?!?!), which seems to me to be an afterthought. Moreover, if you were going to eliminate full outright trading, selling and sharing as it exists now, you'd think they would have had everything resolved up-front prior to their presentation at E3. Rather, it seems they have back-tracking and trying to cover their asses after all of the consumer and media backlash.
It clearly does affect me, but that doesn't stop me from playing games that I will want to play. Did I like when games were raised from $50 to $60 ? No. Do I still pay $60 for games I really want? Yes. Did I like paying for xbox live when I got my first xbox? No. Do I still pay for it because I like it's features? Yes.
I also like how you hint at me being a "fanboy" considering I play PC, PS3, and xbox 360 currently. I also have the Xbox One and PS4 both preordered. Clearly I am a xbox fanboy!!
Also, how is people spending money on things they want and are going to use a bad decision? Oh wait.. I know!!! Anything you don't buy but other people do buy is a bad decision.
I have no problem with people voicing their opinions. I understand people have different opinions on everything, but the point where it's getting stupid is where people are "flamed" because they have an opinion that differs from somebody elses.
ChunLiBarbie
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No. You know what's REALLY dumb?. When people say, if you can't afford it, don't buy it. There shall be countless soccers moms stuck with this thing. Probably from being told she can't return it and not being bold enough to stand up for her refund. Worked her butt off to get it for her kids only to find out it's TRASH that won't work in her area that has unreliable internet service. Timmy's crying, mom's sad because she saved up many paychecks to give her children the best Christmas.
Wonder if they will have WHATEVER OTHER nonsense they add or changed scratched on the front of the box or if it'll be a 'figure it out' type thing.
Wonder if they will have WHATEVER OTHER nonsense they add or changed scratched on the front of the box or if it'll be a 'figure it out' type thing.
Superstar
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I don't know about you but if I was going to spend
I don't know about anyone else but if I am going to spend $500 on a device I do my research first. Especially if it was for a child.
To be honest, the quote by HTZ sums it up nicely:
"If they are going to defend them just be ready to be attacked by those that don't like these DRM/Used game restrictions policies."
If you defend the console, expect to be attacked for your opinion. The days of people respecting each other's opinions are dead sadly. Perhaps we should just go over and start "attacking" the PS4 threads?
It's not that. It's that when you keep bending over and taking it and spending money on things you don't like it just sends the message that gamers will put up with all kinds of erosions of their consumer rights to keep playing their games.
Thus you get things like pay for online gaming, put other paid services (like Netflix) behind the paywall, game prices jumping with less content than before as stuff is held back for DLC, restrictive DRM etc.
Of course, it's all up to the individual on how much things bother them, whether it affects them at all personally etc. But when one keeps paying for things they admittedly don't like, as you just indicated in the prior post, it does seem a bit silly as it just leads to a situation where you (and anyone who wants to keep gaming) is paying more and more for less and less as time goes on and gamers keep buying games regardless of price, DRM and other stuff and show that they'll do whatever to keep playing their favorite games.
I won't bash people for that as I'm not that serious a gamer. I love games, but I have a lot of hobbies and interests and would have zero problems quitting gaming if X1 like DRM and game pricing is the norm. But it is a little frustrating to see so many not care at all about their consumer rights--especially on a site dedicated to people trying to get maximum value out of the money they spend.
ChunLiBarbie
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Superstar
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That's not Microsoft's fault if they don't though. They put it out there. It's not like they're hiding their policies that they are putting in place. It would be one thing if they were lying about it, which they are not.
Can I just be the one to say I want to play Forza 5 because I love that game and I don't give a shit what Microsoft does with their DRM?
The DRM crap will change my buying habits but people are to emotional about the whole thing. The disc IS a license to play the game. While Microsoft are really making it harder on gamers, they aren't going to go bankrupt, they wont have a system like the 32X that has no support and they will be making games for this 7 years from now.
I built a
ing Ark for the impending flood from the never ending streams of tears about this.
The DRM crap will change my buying habits but people are to emotional about the whole thing. The disc IS a license to play the game. While Microsoft are really making it harder on gamers, they aren't going to go bankrupt, they wont have a system like the 32X that has no support and they will be making games for this 7 years from now.
I built a
ing Ark for the impending flood from the never ending streams of tears about this.Blaster man
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Are people seriously being called fanboys for standing up for what they believe? This is CAG and most of us want to get the best deals possible. You are not going to get the best deals possible on the XbOne plain and simple. A game on XbOne with DRM will not be as cheap as quickly as the same game on PS4 without DRM.
You summed up your entire post with that one sentence pretty well I'd say. I'd encourage you to visit the PS4 section and see if any of these posters saying they are buying a Xbox One, or it dosent effect them, or some people are overreacting have ever posted a negative thing over there. I think you'll find it slightly enlightening.
You could say "But, Ash, there's nothing bad to say about it!".. to which I'd respond that's silly. The irony of Sony saying "You buy it, You own it" could only be lost on the internet since apparently they have the memory span of a goldfish.
Blaster man
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No one has implied that the disk isn't a license. The difference is that the normal disk based games have a typical right of first sale doctrine applied to them. MS is trying to take that away. Just because you have a license doesn't mean you can't dispose of said license in any way you chose.Can I just be the one to say I want to play Forza 5 because I love that game and I don't give a shit what Microsoft does with their DRM?
The DRM crap will change my buying habits but people are to emotional about the whole thing. The disc IS a license to play the game. While Microsoft are really making it harder on gamers, they aren't going to go bankrupt, they wont have a system like the 32X that has no support and they will be making games for this 7 years from now.
I built a
Anyone that says that you can't sell your disks right now and that you're "getting away with it" either doesn't know what they're talking about or is outright lying.
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The fact is that while lawyers and the denizens of company boardrooms have become accustomed to this idea of licensing over ownership, consumers absolutely have not - because so far, it has mostly just been legal jargon that their eyes skim past, without actually changing how they interact with someone. Sure, that CD says you can't have an unauthorised public performance, but it doesn't stop you playing it at a party. Yes, the DVD says you shouldn't copy it, but it can't actually prevent you ripping it to your laptop to watch on the train. Absolutely, that game says it's only for the use of one person and unauthorised resale is banned, but I can still physically take the disc out of the drive and give it to a friend or put it on eBay. The people who have grown accustomed to licensing restrictions are only those who seek to impose the restrictions; actual consumers have yet to feel the cold hand of these restrictions on their day to day behaviour.
That's why a strategy that was probably seen as simply "continuing the status quo" within Microsoft has provoked outrage from consumers who, yes, have "technically" been bound by these restrictions before, but have not actually had to contend with them for real. Arguing, as some have done, that consumers should have fought back before now, when these EULAs and licenses were first being introduced, is another "but technically..." argument - consumers fight back when an actual restriction is imposed, not when a sneaky piece of legalese implies a restriction that nobody attempts to enforce.
Of course, there's another reason Microsoft may have seen Xbox One as an uncontroversial device - because we already accept similar restrictions when we buy digital software from Steam, the App Store, Google Play and their ilk. You can't trade in your Steam games, so why are you so upset about the same restrictions being imposed to Xbox One?
Again, this is a conflict of "but technically..." versus real consumer sentiment. Yes, Steam applies these restrictions, but there are two key differences. Firstly, Steam applies them to digital products, not to physical products, and consumers have very different relationships with digital products (rightly or wrongly). Applying the same restrictions to physical products - to items which consumers feel that they physically own ("but technically!") and feel that, as with any physical item, they have a right to keep, to give away, to sell or otherwise to treat as any personal possession since time immemorial has been treated - feels deeply unpleasant and grasping.
Secondly, Steam - like any store on a PC or a Mac - is a choice.
I can buy software from Steam, but if I don't like the terms I can also buy through many other routes. Steam is chosen by consumers because it's the most convenient and often most cost-effective way to get games - it competes with lots of other channels, physical and digital. The same applies to iTunes, which dominates the music market but is entirely optional - you could buy all the music you want through other channels if you liked. I buy a lot of books on Kindle, fully cognisant that this is more restrictive than buying paperbacks, but accepting those restrictions in return for good value and superb convenience.
Xbox One doesn't propose to let consumers make a choice (other than "not buying an Xbox One", a choice a rather large number of consumers seem to be making right now). It intends to apply the same restrictive DRM to physical and to digital goods, treating them as one and the same despite consumers' radically different relationship with them. Sony will apply strict DRM to digital purchases on PS4, just as it does on PS3 (and as Microsoft already does to digital purchases on Xbox 360), but consumers won't complain vociferously because they accept this - it's an option. If you choose to buy a digital game over a physical copy, you do so aware of the restrictions but feeling that they are outbalanced by the convenience or other factors. In extending those restrictions to physical products, Microsoft removes a choice that consumers have become very attached to.
-http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-06-14-the-xbox-one-question-why-did-microsoft-do-it
Hey genius you're not defending the console and it's games. You're defending the anti-consumer drm and used game restrictions. What you expect from those against it?
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DestroVega
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Actually, If Microsoft chooses to do this and limit your trading or selling ability, It IS a Dick move by them but they have the right to do what they want. Itunes and Steam wont let you sell their content at all. It's worse than what Microsoft is doing.No one has implied that the disk isn't a license. The difference is that the normal disk based games have a typical right of first sale doctrine applied to them. MS is trying to take that away. Just because you have a license doesn't mean you can't dispose of said license in any way you chose.Can I just be the one to say I want to play Forza 5 because I love that game and I don't give a shit what Microsoft does with their DRM?
The DRM crap will change my buying habits but people are to emotional about the whole thing. The disc IS a license to play the game. While Microsoft are really making it harder on gamers, they aren't going to go bankrupt, they wont have a system like the 32X that has no support and they will be making games for this 7 years from now.
I built a
Anyone that says that you can't sell your disks right now and that you're "getting away with it" either doesn't know what they're talking about or is outright lying.
With that said, I'm not happy about it but can live with it since I do have Steam and Itunes as well. The format in which you play your media is irrelevant and in the end, we truly own nothing. I hope Microsoft realizes that by doing this they have to actually have competitive pricing and sales to actually do a decent amount of business.
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Blaster man
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htz, you are allowed by law to sell video games, music, and movies that you legally obtained. This thing where people are claiming that you are not allowed to is bullshit. First sale doctrine makes it perfectly legal. I'd love for people to show me ONE time online where selling a used but legally obtained video game, music CD, or DVD landed someone in jail or got them sued. Also, GameStop would be an illegal criminal enterprise and eBay does not allow the sale of illegal materials.
MS cannot stop you from selling your disk even under the new system. You guys have a basic misunderstanding of what MS is doing.Actually, If Microsoft chooses to do this and limit your trading or selling ability, It IS a Dick move by them but they have the right to do what they want. Itunes and Steam wont let you sell their content at all. It's worse than what Microsoft is doing.No one has implied that the disk isn't a license. The difference is that the normal disk based games have a typical right of first sale doctrine applied to them. MS is trying to take that away. Just because you have a license doesn't mean you can't dispose of said license in any way you chose.Can I just be the one to say I want to play Forza 5 because I love that game and I don't give a shit what Microsoft does with their DRM?
The DRM crap will change my buying habits but people are to emotional about the whole thing. The disc IS a license to play the game. While Microsoft are really making it harder on gamers, they aren't going to go bankrupt, they wont have a system like the 32X that has no support and they will be making games for this 7 years from now.
I built a
Anyone that says that you can't sell your disks right now and that you're "getting away with it" either doesn't know what they're talking about or is outright lying.
With that said, I'm not happy about it but can live with it since I do have Steam and Itunes as well. The format in which you play your media is irrelevant and in the end, we truly own nothing. I hope Microsoft realizes that by doing this they have to actually have competitive pricing and sales to actually do a decent amount of business.
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ChunLiBarbie
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This comment makes about as much sense as the XboxDONE. Never forget that if you run into a company with shady tactics.
These things should be written in listings and mentioned to customers before purchase.
I think that's the biggest issue in the debate.
I have no problems with people who aren't affected by the DRM, people who don't care about it, people who don't like it but say they'll buy it anyway as they have to play Halo/Gears/with their friends who are sticking with MS etc. (well maybe a bit of issue with the last as per my last reply).
The problems is the people who attack those who like to sell their games themselves for max value, or who don't have reliable internet all the time etc. like they're the problem.
It needs to go both ways. As someone who hates the DRM, I can acknowledge that there are people who it won't affect at all (people who don't buy used, don't trade/sell/lend games etc. and have stable internet connections all the time etc.). Those who are in that camp need to acknowledge that the DRM is a major issue for others and totally changes the way they buy and play games and for many it's unacceptable.
Neither side is wrong/right. There's just people who aren't affected by it, and people who are. No need for either side to insult the other. But at the same time, it is hard to understand people actively defending the DRM. It's one thing to just say you aren't affected by it or don't care, and thus will still buy an X1. It's another to act like it's a good thing and defend MS for doing it.
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Superstar
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It's really hard to take you seriously when you try to come up with 'cute' nicknames such as "XboxDONE", but I will try.
These things are being mentioned to the customers. It's all over the internet. Your argument fails on so many levels. Lets use this example:
Say you are going to Walmart and buying a Xbox One. With every check out, is the cashier supposed to have a book listing every feature \ capability of the console?
Let's say I go to walmart and buy a dvd. Is the Cashier supposed to tell me I need a tv and a DVD player to use the items I'm purchasing? Better yet - let's say I am buying shoes. Should they say I need feet???
Let's stop pretending people are stupid and let's give the consumer a little bit of responsibility of researching items they are unsure about before they swipe their credit cards.
Blaster man
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Here's the way it works since people seem to be so confused. Under the current system you buy a game and it comes with a license associated with the disk. You can sell the disk and it's perfectly legal to do so. In this case the license transfers with the purchase of the disk.
What MS is doing is selling a data disk that does nothing but include install files and it comes with a license. The license and the disk are not necessarily attached to one another in their new system but they are giving limited opportunities (at the publisher's discretion) to transfer the license. If this is legal or not is not necessarily determined despite claims. We know for a fact that it's illegal in Europe. In the US they haven't even begun to address these issues in court. As ownership moves more towards licenses in virtual lockers we're going to see the courts start to rule on ownership issues. It's going to be decades before we know what is strictly legal in terms of licenses. Until then these companies will make whatever crazy claims they want.
http://verrytechnical.com/can-an-itunes-library-be-inherited/
"It looks like we no longer accumulate all wealth through physical holdings. Some wealth (assets) is virtual; some has become lifetime rental investments. Today we enter into digital licensing agreements that only expire when we do. These non-renewable-non-transferrable-agreements do not address what to do with the media once we are no longer around. We cannot give them away, sell them, or take them with us. Obviously, the options are limited today.
It is difficult for law makers to keep up with the fast pace of digital development. That Florida attorney probably has the best approach. Finding a way to get a few cases before a judge will most likely nudge the jurists to take a closer look. In the meantime, start talking to your family about who wants to assume the responsibility of guarding your vast library of rented songs and books. Pick someone you can trust to do the right thing—whatever that is."
The point is, these companies are making claims like they're judge, jury, and executioner. They and their lawyers are trying to take advantage of the current hole left by law that's yet to be determined by the courts.
I don't know if anyone's read this but the only real ruling on this was from an older judge that didn't want to make any sort of precedent setting ruling. He used the strictest interpretation of the law - the law being from almost a hundred years ago. In his ruling, it's only legal to sell your digital content if you sell the device they're on. They need new laws to address ownership in a digital age. If you go by the strict ruling here, you can sell your Xbox 360 and give someone all your XBLA games on it and it would be legal.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130401/11341622538/redigi-loses-selling-used-mp3s-online-infringes-first-sale-doesnt-apply-to-digital-transfers.shtml
What MS is doing is selling a data disk that does nothing but include install files and it comes with a license. The license and the disk are not necessarily attached to one another in their new system but they are giving limited opportunities (at the publisher's discretion) to transfer the license. If this is legal or not is not necessarily determined despite claims. We know for a fact that it's illegal in Europe. In the US they haven't even begun to address these issues in court. As ownership moves more towards licenses in virtual lockers we're going to see the courts start to rule on ownership issues. It's going to be decades before we know what is strictly legal in terms of licenses. Until then these companies will make whatever crazy claims they want.
http://verrytechnical.com/can-an-itunes-library-be-inherited/
"It looks like we no longer accumulate all wealth through physical holdings. Some wealth (assets) is virtual; some has become lifetime rental investments. Today we enter into digital licensing agreements that only expire when we do. These non-renewable-non-transferrable-agreements do not address what to do with the media once we are no longer around. We cannot give them away, sell them, or take them with us. Obviously, the options are limited today.
It is difficult for law makers to keep up with the fast pace of digital development. That Florida attorney probably has the best approach. Finding a way to get a few cases before a judge will most likely nudge the jurists to take a closer look. In the meantime, start talking to your family about who wants to assume the responsibility of guarding your vast library of rented songs and books. Pick someone you can trust to do the right thing—whatever that is."
The point is, these companies are making claims like they're judge, jury, and executioner. They and their lawyers are trying to take advantage of the current hole left by law that's yet to be determined by the courts.
I don't know if anyone's read this but the only real ruling on this was from an older judge that didn't want to make any sort of precedent setting ruling. He used the strictest interpretation of the law - the law being from almost a hundred years ago. In his ruling, it's only legal to sell your digital content if you sell the device they're on. They need new laws to address ownership in a digital age. If you go by the strict ruling here, you can sell your Xbox 360 and give someone all your XBLA games on it and it would be legal.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130401/11341622538/redigi-loses-selling-used-mp3s-online-infringes-first-sale-doesnt-apply-to-digital-transfers.shtml
Under the current *console* system.
This has not been the case with a vast majority of PC games for years.
Not disagreeing with what you wrote, just wanted to mention those of us who play PC as primary are used to this system, accept it, and have since moved on... all about 10 years ago. (When Steam first came out, oddly enough
)It's pretty much the whole acting like the drm/used game restrictions is a good thing plus defending MS for doing it that is getting people riled up. Ashane still thinks we are attacking them cause we dislike them getting an xbox one which is not the case.
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Blaster man
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Sure but just because people have accepted it and moved on doesn't mean it's right. To say that you can never own anything again and that it's okay because it's been "accepted" is a bit out there. If we gave up the right to freedom of speech, it's not "okay because some people have accepted it".Under the current *console* system.
This has not been the case with a vast majority of PC games for years.
Not disagreeing with what you wrote, just wanted to mention those of us who play PC as primary are used to this system, accept it, and have since moved on... all about 10 years ago. (When Steam first came out, oddly enough
ChunLiBarbie
CAGiversary!
[quote name="Superstar" post="10732990" timestamp="1371413891"][quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732978" timestamp="1371413449"]
[quote name="Superstar" post="10732951" timestamp="1371412388"]
[quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732947" timestamp="1371412137"]
[quote name="Superstar" post="10732939" timestamp="1371411907"]
I don't know about you but if I was going to spend
[quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732937" timestamp="1371411800"]
No. You know what's REALLY dumb?. When people say, if you can't afford it, don't buy it. There shall be countless soccers moms stuck with this thing. Probably from being told she can't return it and not being bold enough to stand up for her refund. Worked her butt off to get it for her kids only to find out it's TRASH that won't work in her area that has unreliable internet service. Timmy's crying, mom's sad because she saved up many paychecks to give her children the best Christmas.
Wonder if they will have WHATEVER OTHER nonsense they add or changed scratched on the front of the box or if it'll be a 'figure it out' type thing.
[/quote]
I don't know about anyone else but if I am going to spend $500 on a device I do my research first. Especially if it was for a child.[/quote]
As you should. And, realistically, there will be TONS that will not.[/quote]
That's not Microsoft's fault if they don't though. They put it out there. It's not like they're hiding their policies that they are putting in place. It would be one thing if they were lying about it, which they are not.[/quote]
This comment makes about as much sense as the XboxDONE. Never forget that if you run into a company with shady tactics.
These things should be written in listings and mentioned to customers before purchase.
[/quote]
It's really hard to take you seriously when you try to come up with 'cute' nicknames such as "XboxDONE", but I will try.
These things are being mentioned to the customers. It's all over the internet. Your argument fails on so many levels. Lets use this example:
Say you are going to Walmart and buying a Xbox One. With every check out, is the cashier supposed to have a book listing every feature \ capability of the console?
Let's say I go to walmart and buy a dvd. Is the Cashier supposed to tell me I need a tv and a DVD player to use the items I'm purchasing? Better yet - let's say I am buying shoes. Should they say I need feet???
Let's stop pretending people are stupid and let's give the consumer a little bit of responsibility of researching items they are unsure about before they swipe their credit cards.[/quote]
Yes. All of that. Also, they should ask them if they'd like cheese on their SCAM sandwich.
Beyond the internet issue there are many other issues(duh) that plenty of people won't know about. Regardless, it's One big shade of a mess.
[quote name="Superstar" post="10732951" timestamp="1371412388"]
[quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732947" timestamp="1371412137"]
[quote name="Superstar" post="10732939" timestamp="1371411907"]
I don't know about you but if I was going to spend
[quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732937" timestamp="1371411800"]
No. You know what's REALLY dumb?. When people say, if you can't afford it, don't buy it. There shall be countless soccers moms stuck with this thing. Probably from being told she can't return it and not being bold enough to stand up for her refund. Worked her butt off to get it for her kids only to find out it's TRASH that won't work in her area that has unreliable internet service. Timmy's crying, mom's sad because she saved up many paychecks to give her children the best Christmas.
Wonder if they will have WHATEVER OTHER nonsense they add or changed scratched on the front of the box or if it'll be a 'figure it out' type thing.
[/quote]
I don't know about anyone else but if I am going to spend $500 on a device I do my research first. Especially if it was for a child.[/quote]
As you should. And, realistically, there will be TONS that will not.[/quote]
That's not Microsoft's fault if they don't though. They put it out there. It's not like they're hiding their policies that they are putting in place. It would be one thing if they were lying about it, which they are not.[/quote]
This comment makes about as much sense as the XboxDONE. Never forget that if you run into a company with shady tactics.
These things should be written in listings and mentioned to customers before purchase.
[/quote]
It's really hard to take you seriously when you try to come up with 'cute' nicknames such as "XboxDONE", but I will try.
These things are being mentioned to the customers. It's all over the internet. Your argument fails on so many levels. Lets use this example:
Say you are going to Walmart and buying a Xbox One. With every check out, is the cashier supposed to have a book listing every feature \ capability of the console?
Let's say I go to walmart and buy a dvd. Is the Cashier supposed to tell me I need a tv and a DVD player to use the items I'm purchasing? Better yet - let's say I am buying shoes. Should they say I need feet???
Let's stop pretending people are stupid and let's give the consumer a little bit of responsibility of researching items they are unsure about before they swipe their credit cards.[/quote]
Yes. All of that. Also, they should ask them if they'd like cheese on their SCAM sandwich.
Beyond the internet issue there are many other issues(duh) that plenty of people won't know about. Regardless, it's One big shade of a mess.
Blaster man
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Also, going by the strict interpretation of the law that the judge used in what is basically the only case like this, you would be wise to set up a machine for just steam games and nothing else. Then later you can sell the entire computer or at least the hard drive from it and "legally" transfer your content.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130401/11341622538/redigi-loses-selling-used-mp3s-online-infringes-first-sale-doesnt-apply-to-digital-transfers.shtml
At some point a real ruling and real laws are going to come down that take care of this stuff. I don't think the way the companies treat the content now is necessarily the way it will be treated 50 years from now. Notice that court ruling is from only 3 months ago? This stuff is far from being decided. I'd wager throughout the decade we're going to begin seeing more and more cases.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130401/11341622538/redigi-loses-selling-used-mp3s-online-infringes-first-sale-doesnt-apply-to-digital-transfers.shtml
At some point a real ruling and real laws are going to come down that take care of this stuff. I don't think the way the companies treat the content now is necessarily the way it will be treated 50 years from now. Notice that court ruling is from only 3 months ago? This stuff is far from being decided. I'd wager throughout the decade we're going to begin seeing more and more cases.
I love how Phil Harrison called it "the bits" like gamers are too stupid to understand what he's talking about.
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Superstar
CAGiversary!
As you should. And, realistically, there will be TONS that will not.[/quote]
That's not Microsoft's fault if they don't though. They put it out there. It's not like they're hiding their policies that they are putting in place. It would be one thing if they were lying about it, which they are not.[/quote]
This comment makes about as much sense as the XboxDONE. Never forget that if you run into a company with shady tactics.
These things should be written in listings and mentioned to customers before purchase.
[/quote]
It's really hard to take you seriously when you try to come up with 'cute' nicknames such as "XboxDONE", but I will try.
These things are being mentioned to the customers. It's all over the internet. Your argument fails on so many levels. Lets use this example:
Say you are going to Walmart and buying a Xbox One. With every check out, is the cashier supposed to have a book listing every feature \ capability of the console?
Let's say I go to walmart and buy a dvd. Is the Cashier supposed to tell me I need a tv and a DVD player to use the items I'm purchasing? Better yet - let's say I am buying shoes. Should they say I need feet???
Let's stop pretending people are stupid and let's give the consumer a little bit of responsibility of researching items they are unsure about before they swipe their credit cards.[/QUOTE]
Yes. All of that. Also, they should ask them if they'd like cheese on their SCAM sandwich.
Beyond the internet issue there are many other issues(duh) that plenty of people won't know about. Regardless, it's One big shade of a mess.
[/QUOTE]
Not sure why I expected as competent answer from you. Oh well
ChunLiBarbie
CAGiversary!
[quote name="Superstar" post="10733010" timestamp="1371414757"][quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10733005" timestamp="1371414512"][quote name="Superstar" post="10732990" timestamp="1371413891"][quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732978" timestamp="1371413449"][quote name="Superstar" post="10732951" timestamp="1371412388"][quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732947" timestamp="1371412137"][quote name="Superstar" post="10732939" timestamp="1371411907"]I don't know about you but if I was going to spend [quote name="ChunLiBarbie" post="10732937" timestamp="1371411800"]No. You know what's REALLY dumb?. When people say, if you can't afford it, don't buy it. There shall be countless soccers moms stuck with this thing. Probably from being told she can't return it and not being bold enough to stand up for her refund. Worked her butt off to get it for her kids only to find out it's TRASH that won't work in her area that has unreliable internet service. Timmy's crying, mom's sad because she saved up many paychecks to give her children the best Christmas. Wonder if they will have WHATEVER OTHER nonsense they add or changed scratched on the front of the box or if it'll be a 'figure it out' type thing.[/quote] I don't know about anyone else but if I am going to spend $500 on a device I do my research first. Especially if it was for a child.[/quote]As you should. And, realistically, there will be TONS that will not.[/quote] That's not Microsoft's fault if they don't though. They put it out there. It's not like they're hiding their policies that they are putting in place. It would be one thing if they were lying about it, which they are not.[/quote]This comment makes about as much sense as the XboxDONE. Never forget that if you run into a company with shady tactics.These things should be written in listings and mentioned to customers before purchase.[/quote] It's really hard to take you seriously when you try to come up with 'cute' nicknames such as "XboxDONE", but I will try. These things are being mentioned to the customers. It's all over the internet. Your argument fails on so many levels. Lets use this example: Say you are going to Walmart and buying a Xbox One. With every check out, is the cashier supposed to have a book listing every feature \ capability of the console? Let's say I go to walmart and buy a dvd. Is the Cashier supposed to tell me I need a tv and a DVD player to use the items I'm purchasing? Better yet - let's say I am buying shoes. Should they say I need feet??? Let's stop pretending people are stupid and let's give the consumer a little bit of responsibility of researching items they are unsure about before they swipe their credit cards.[/quote]Yes. All of that. Also, they should ask them if they'd like cheese on their SCAM sandwich.Beyond the internet issue there are many other issues(duh) that plenty of people won't know about. Regardless, it's One big shade of a mess.[/quote] Not sure why I expected as competent answer from you. Oh well [/quote]
Thank you for confirming that you make as much sense as an Xbox One.
[/quote]Thank you for confirming that you make as much sense as an Xbox One.
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The only thing I have to base what "may" happen on is... Steam.
Has Steam been good for the PC? Yes. In many way's, it saved PC gaming. Without it, odds are we woudnt have the meager offerings we do have. (For all the PC master race talk, so often all we get are console first ports)
The same could be said of iTunes, which changed the way people regard music and has helped the music industry tremendously. Are they still douchebags occasionally? Of course. But it has pushed them forward.
That's really where I'm coming from. I've got absolutely no reason to think going all digital is "bad". Not when my actual experiences are.... it's been very, very good.
Blaster man
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Did you look at my link? You can sell your MP3's....so long as you sell the physical hard drive.
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Kazuya
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Sorry, but it's also "out there" to suggest that video games can never evolve, and that 500 years from now a video game console has to be a console, a disc and a TV despite whatever technology is available at the time. Not everything is going to lend itself to being owned forever and ever (a stance that is funny considering this is a board where people lock in Amazon trade-in values of games they haven't even finished yet). Technology has created ideas and concepts that obliterate the accepted understanding of "ownership".
ChunLiBarbie
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They will "work with them" does not sound like DRM was the publishers' idea. A yes or no would suffice. Stop beating around the bush with everything.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RtSGFryKwo
I don't have issues with going fully digital. Just don't half-ass it like Microsoft is doing and telling us it is for our benefit when it is not by butchering the way we buy physical products. They could had avoided this whole mess by going fully digital, then people would be able to decide for themselves. It's easier to understand the restrictions on a digital product than what restrictions Microsoft is putting on a physical product. We never had this issue where the disc becomes useless after you buy it for console gamers.
Blaster man
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saunderscowie
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In that Major Nelson video he must of been a little awkward / embarrassed knowing the kinds of questions he'd be asked regarding peoples problems / the shady things that Microsoft are doing with the Xbox One.
The thing Microsoft is doing right now isn't? They wouldn't even have this PR disaster.
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Blaster man
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bread's done