Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

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aptanor said:
Kazuya said:
I wonder if this guy would switch to PS3 to save a hundred bucks?

https://live.xbox.com/en-US/Profile?gamertag=Stallion83
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Doubtful, especially due to the "last playing windows phone" activity log. Still, people that I work with that are huge Xbox fanboys, people who initially were super excited just to hear there might be a new console, are now torn between the two. The price difference and slightly more powerful hardware do make a difference to some of the dudebro crowd.
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Strange because I don't know any Xbox fanboys who would even consider switching. Off the top of my head I can think of roughly 5 or 6 of them who have played games they actively disliked for achievements. I think people are vastly underestimating the pull that the ecosystem of the 360 has with the achievements, community and perceived superiority of Xbox Live. One guy I know tried to tell me that PS3 still didn't have in game XMB. I was like man, they patched that in years ago. These guys aren't going anywhere.

Another thing that's funny to me is hearing the online nerd rage about the Xbox One's media features, but whenever I get online and check my online friends list (for either system) 75% of my friends are either on Netflix or Crackle. LOL.

 
TooPoor said:
htz said:
Normally low end hardware only takes a tiny little die so yields are good, but for some reason that either MS engineers or suits/beancounters can only know they decided to go for this huge ass APU with esram.

-http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61361957&postcount=939
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I'm very sure that any engineer would have known this, the only reason for them botching the yield I could think of is the pressure from the "suits" that has been imposed on the engineers.
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MS rushed, they were caught off guard by Sony, due to a failure in leadership. -CBOAT (reliable neogaf leaker)
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The engineers Microsoft hired are probably really smart people, it sounds like leadership is to blame for the low yields.

 
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i honstly think both system were not ready to come out till 2014 but leadership in both ms and sony were freaking out the other one was going to announce a system and sony decided they had to pull the trigger so it did not end up a year head start like last gen.

 
Erad30 said:
Maybe it's a getting older thing, but I stopped caring about achievements/trophies a couple years ago. But then I've never been a completionist in the first place. I might do a few side things, but mostly I just beat the main story and move on to the next game with very few exceptions.
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Ha - my problem is that I am a completionist and achievements/trophies feed right into that ;). It is why I have yet to start so many longer games that I really want to play (Skyrim. Fallout series, and Disgaea games, etc).

What I should be doing is passing on both new systems and playing some of these classics that I haven't even touched yet. And here I sit with both preordered...

Kazuya said:
Strange because I don't know any Xbox fanboys who would even consider switching. Off the top of my head I can think of roughly 5 or 6 of them who have played games they actively disliked for achievements. I think people are vastly underestimating the pull that the ecosystem of the 360 has with the achievements, community and perceived superiority of Xbox Live. One guy I know tried to tell me that PS3 still didn't have in game XMB. I was like man, they patched that in years ago. These guys aren't going anywhere.

Another thing that's funny to me is hearing the online nerd rage about the Xbox One's media features, but whenever I get online and check my online friends list (for either system) 75% of my friends are either on Netflix or Crackle. LOL.
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But here's the thing - I'm not invested in one or the other (with respect to the trophies/achievements). I get 'em all (see my Raptr card) - and I'm even starting in now on Steam achievements...

As for the media features, I see that on my friends list too - but most of it is simply Netflix and you can get that on any number of devices, so I don't see people having a ton of loyalty on a brand for just that stuff. The media features being touted by MS are for your own local cable feed and I see that being less desirable than the streaming features present on just about everything these days. I mean, having Netflix and Amazon Video is almost required for an Internet-capable TV device these days. They can just as easily get that on the PS4.

As for the whole in-game, cross-game, whatever chat, for me personally that is the most useless thing ever created. I think I've talked on a system all of about 4 or 5 times and most of that was many years back. Seeing people harp over that stuff and how it works on 360 vs. PS3 and how that will carry over to the next get is just silly to me (but yeah, I know it matters to some people).

 
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[quote name="htz" post="10853779" timestamp="1372025492"][quote name="TooPoor" post="10853666" timestamp="1372020575"]
[quote name="htz" post="10853537" timestamp="1372015817"]
Normally low end hardware only takes a tiny little die so yields are good, but for some reason that either MS engineers or suits/beancounters can only know they decided to go for this huge ass APU with esram.

-http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=61361957&postcount=939
[/quote]
I'm very sure that any engineer would have known this, the only reason for them botching the yield I could think of is the pressure from the "suits" that has been imposed on the engineers.
[/quote]

MS rushed, they were caught off guard by Sony, due to a failure in leadership. -CBOAT (reliable neogaf leaker)
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The engineers Microsoft hired are probably really smart people, it sounds like leadership is to blame for the low yields.[/quote]
Yeah, this is why I quit a industry centric career in pursuit of a teaching/research/industry hybrid career. When the suits come down with unreasonable deadline and unreasonable requirements without a shred of knowledge on the underlying tech, the engineers just have to sacrifice technological integrity.

I still don't know how either Microsoft or Sony could be caught "off guard", I assumed everybody knew Sony and Microsoft were starting to develop the next gen hardware.
 
TimboSliceGB said:
i honstly think both system were not ready to come out till 2014 but leadership in both ms and sony were freaking out the other one was going to announce a system and sony decided they had to pull the trigger so it did not end up a year head start like last gen.
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What about the PS4 makes you think it wasn't ready to come out? Everything they have presented seems well organized and strategically planned out, where as Microsoft seems like a rushed bumbling mess. I think one was ready and the other is playing catch up. In reality it should have been the other way around, PS3 is now picking up steam while the 360 is falling off in terms of both hardware and exclusives, so it really should have been Microsoft pushing for a new console.

io said:
Ha - my problem is that I am a completionist and achievements/trophies feed right into that ;). It is why I have yet to start so many longer games that I really want to play (Skyrim. Fallout series, and Disgaea games, etc).

What I should be doing is passing on both new systems and playing some of these classics that I haven't even touched yet. And here I sit with both preordered...
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This is me too, it's the reason I won't buy a multiplat on a Nintendo system. I think they really dropped the ball not making some sort of universal achievement/trophy system.

 
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What about the PS4 makes you think it wasn't ready to come out?  Everything they have presented seems well organized and strategically planned out, where as Microsoft seems like a rushed bumbling mess.  I think one was ready and the other is playing catch up.  In reality it should have been the other way around, PS3 is now picking up steam while the 360 is falling off in terms of both hardware and exclusives, so it really should have been Microsoft pushing for a new cons

in my mind what shows it is the lack of gameplay for just about every single game coming out for both systems. The bigger games for the systems are not out till 2014 which should have been launch titles. sony announces a reveal conf on short notice after rumors saying systems will not be out till 2014. sony now showing system till 4 months after it was announced and only showing lame controller at reveal event. So many things about each system are still un answered i think ps4 in my mind has more unanswered questions then xbox one.

achivements and trophies were cool at the start now they are so easy to get and makes it boring. 

people that have already pre order these systems are pretty  much pre order a blind product that they don't know much about. Ps4 is the biggest thing we don't know much about other then whats inside and the games coming out for it which is why i did all my pre orders on amazon i don't pay a penny till the things ship at that point i should know what im buying.

 
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TimboSliceGB said:
in my mind what shows it is the lack of gameplay for just about every single game coming out for both systems. The bigger games for the systems are not out till 2014 which should have been launch titles. sony announces a reveal conf on short notice after rumors saying systems will not be out till 2014. sony now showing system till 4 months after it was announced and only showing lame controller at reveal event. So many things about each system are still un answered i think ps4 in my mind has more unanswered questions then xbox one.
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This isn't the product of an unplanned or rushed console, this is the product of you can no longer announce a console a year and a half early. There is to much impact on current gen business to do that. Couple that with not being able to send dev kits out until close to you're reveal to keep secrecy and you get all the issues you mention. Sony not showing the console doesn't mean rushed as making all of the components fit in a pretty little package is nearly the last process of console development.

 
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Kazuya said:
aptanor said:
Kazuya said:
I wonder if this guy would switch to PS3 to save a hundred bucks?
https://live.xbox.com/en-US/Profile?gamertag=Stallion83
Click to expand...
Doubtful, especially due to the "last playing windows phone" activity log. Still, people that I work with that are huge Xbox fanboys, people who initially were super excited just to hear there might be a new console, are now torn between the two. The price difference and slightly more powerful hardware do make a difference to some of the dudebro crowd.
Click to expand...
Strange because I don't know any Xbox fanboys who would even consider switching. Off the top of my head I can think of roughly 5 or 6 of them who have played games they actively disliked for achievements. I think people are vastly underestimating the pull that the ecosystem of the 360 has with the achievements, community and perceived superiority of Xbox Live. One guy I know tried to tell me that PS3 still didn't have in game XMB. I was like man, they patched that in years ago. These guys aren't going anywhere.

Another thing that's funny to me is hearing the online nerd rage about the Xbox One's media features, but whenever I get online and check my online friends list (for either system) 75% of my friends are either on Netflix or Crackle. LOL.
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Most civil comment I've heard from you yet!

I'm sure the XBone will do just fine, there's too many people deeply invested in the brand name and oblivious to the real issues at hand. Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with brand loyalty, most people assume that whichever they like is better though, regardless of the truth.
 
I don't think I've ever really used cross-game chat, except as it applies to making the in-game chat better, which it did on the 360. For example if a game would mute chat during loading, as some did, or if the in-game chat was otherwise a little problematic, which in some games it is, you could get around that by using party chat. Party chat was constant. Of course they could improve in-game chat, and I imagine they probably did with the PS4 and X1, such that this use of party chat isn't even needed any more. That remains to be seen.

 
Kojimaon the power of the X1 and Kinect

http://gamingbolt.com/hideo-kojima-praises-the-xbox-one-may-integrate-kinect-and-smartglass-in-mgs-5


And this looks very promising!

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2013/06/21/microsoft-behind-nearly-700-million-data-center-investment-in-west-des-moines/article?nclick_check=1
 
io said:
As for the whole in-game, cross-game, whatever chat, for me personally that is the most useless thing ever created. I think I've talked on a system all of about 4 or 5 times and most of that was many years back. Seeing people harp over that stuff and how it works on 360 vs. PS3 and how that will carry over to the next get is just silly to me (but yeah, I know it matters to some people).
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I've used it many many times but it's definitely true that most people will never plug a mic into their console. Just look at any lobby of any multiplayer game ever. The vast majority have no mic plugged in. Even though I own both consoles I actually had no idea PS3 couldn't do cross game chat. Seems like such a simple obvious thing, weird that they wouldn't have that.

WV Matsui said:
Kojimaon the power of the X1 and Kinect

http://gamingbolt.com/hideo-kojima-praises-the-xbox-one-may-integrate-kinect-and-smartglass-in-mgs-5
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This is exactly the thing I'm afraid of with this forced Kinect. It worming it's way into great games. It it's an entirely optional feature then I'm fine with it but I just hope they don't force this bullshit into games I want to play and also force you to use it in some way.

 
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Daywalker said:
Yeah, that's true.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZNJYSnjcA[/youtube]
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that' video hits the nail on the head and should be the title video for this forum PEOPLE that say sony did all this because they care about gamers and same thing could be said wiht ms changing things. Guess what people they don't give a ratts butt for you they just want your money you are going to give then.

crunchewy said:
I don't think I've ever really used cross-game chat, except as it applies to making the in-game chat better, which it did on the 360. For example if a game would mute chat during loading, as some did, or if the in-game chat was otherwise a little problematic, which in some games it is, you could get around that by using party chat. Party chat was constant. Of course they could improve in-game chat, and I imagine they probably did with the PS4 and X1, such that this use of party chat isn't even needed any more. That remains to be seen.
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most people use party chat to chat with people playing other games i know that's the only time i use it unless in game chat is messed up for some reason. it's a must ps4 has party chat. i know me and my friends will just talk in party chat on 360 while not even playing anything on the system just to chat while doing other things.

 
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TimboSliceGB said:
that' video hits the nail on the head and should be the title video for this forum PEOPLE that say sony did all this because they care about gamers and same thing could be said wiht ms changing things. Guess what people they don't give a ratts butt for you they just want your money you are going to give then.
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Maybe a few made the argument that Sony loves us but most weren't making that argument. It was more like Sony is giving us what we want so we will give them money. You'd have to be pretty oblivious to not realize they're all huge corporations who only care about money.

 
WV Matsui said:
Kojimaon the power of the X1 and Kinect

http://gamingbolt.com/hideo-kojima-praises-the-xbox-one-may-integrate-kinect-and-smartglass-in-mgs-5


And this looks very promising!

http://blogs.desmoinesregister.com/dmr/index.php/2013/06/21/microsoft-behind-nearly-700-million-data-center-investment-in-west-des-moines/article?nclick_check=1
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so pretty much ms is trying to get servers in every section of us which is pretty sweet will help ping times and what not on mp games.

 
I lol'ed...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJZNJYSnjcA&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

 
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thenutman69321 said:
Maybe a few made the argument that Sony loves us but most weren't making that argument. It was more like Sony is giving us what we want so we will give them money. You'd have to be pretty oblivious to not realize they're all huge corporations who only care about money.
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So much this. Nobody (I hope) is saying that Sony was championing the cause out of sheer love for their consumers, we have been saying it's a business move that coincided with what the bulk of the gaming public wanted, a win-win.

 
WV Matsui said:
I'm really intrigued by the new kinect. Not necessarily the motion tracking but more for the voice etc. I love bouncing around my Xbox with my voice. Pausing Netflix and all of the other great things you can do. Especially all of the new things they talked about including switching in and out of games and TV. Hell I even like the feature of just saying Xbox on.

Hopefully we will learn more about kinect as it gets closer.

Curious at what games folks are thinking about picking up at launch?
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Man, if only they had another device that could take voice input but not motion input...one that was way cheaper. For the life of me I just can't think of another device that can take in your voice and send it to the console or to other players in your games. The Kinect is absolutely necessary for voice commands.

 
aptanor said:
So much this. Nobody (I hope) is saying that Sony was championing the cause out of sheer love for their consumers, we have been saying it's a business move that coincided with what the bulk of the gaming public wanted, a win-win.
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Agreed. Plus while the bottom line is most important to large corporations, some of them come off like used car salesmen looking for any angle to bleed the customer of their money, And then some come off as having pride in their products and people in their organization who have similar interests that their audience have. Without putting a name to each of those descriptions it's pretty easy to tell who is being described in each scenario.

 
Speaking of a non-Kinect sku, how much do people really think the Kinect is worth?

I mean, the current Kinect is $100, and that tech is supposedly worse than the upcoming Kinect. I think a $100 drop would be the most logical if they didn't include it, but I would think the price drop should be more, especially if they still offer the current Kinect at the same price.

 
To add to my earlier comment, in next weeks reorganization, if Microsoft does fire Mattrick or move him to a different division and put a more gamer friendly face in there, it could change Microsoft's Xbox division persona, especially when you consider Mattrick was put in there in 2008 and that's in my opinion when Xbox started going downhill.

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-plans-dramatic-re-organization-2013-6

 
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To add to my earlier comment, in next weeks reorganization, if Microsoft does fire Mattrick or move him to a different division and put a more gamer friendly face in there, it could change Microsoft's Xbox division persona, especially when you consider Mattrick was put in there in 2008 and that's in my opinion when Xbox started going downhill.

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-plans-dramatic-re-organization-2013-6



Don is not going to get fired. That's insane! There is talk he will get promoted. He is highly touted in the business community.
Speaking of a non-Kinect sku, how much do people really think the Kinect is worth?

I mean, the current Kinect is $100, and that tech is supposedly worse than the upcoming Kinect. I think a $100 drop would be the most logical if they didn't include it, but I would think the price drop should be more, especially if they still offer the current Kinect at the same price.



The kinect launched at $150.

I think the X1 bundled with Kinect 2.0 is a great price at $499. Especially the benefit of it being utilized more now that developers will know everyone has one.

I honestly don't see Microsoft launching a non-kinect sku any time soon.
 
I don't think Don is going to or even needs to be fired. Most high-level execs live in a ridiculous bubble and usually come off sounding like idiots/assholes. He does need to be kept away from the public for a long, long time however.

 
WV Matsui said:
Don is not going to get fired. That's insane! There is talk he will get promoted. He is highly touted in the business community.
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Do you ever read what I write or just jump to conclusions?

if Microsoft does fire Mattrick or move him to a different division
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But if what went on with the Xbox reveal falls on Mattricks shoulders you're insane to think he isn't expendable. I'd bet money that Don doesn't hold the same position come next Monday.

 
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thenutman69321 said:
I've used it many many times but it's definitely true that most people will never plug a mic into their console. Just look at any lobby of any multiplayer game ever. The vast majority have no mic plugged in.
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But that's what makes the XBL experience so much better than PSN right? Everybody has a mic and is party chattin' 24/7. And that will continue into next gen because a headset mic will be included with the system and even your old mics still work right?

 
I am glad they came to their senses, but I think they lost a lot of goodwill from gamers. It was clear they were thinking all about the money, even if it screwed over most players. 

 
brandtron8000 said:
But that's what makes the XBL experience so much better than PSN right? Everybody has a mic and is party chattin' 24/7. And that will continue into next gen because a headset mic will be included with the system and even your old mics still work right?
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(I know this was sarcasm, it was just the closest related thing I could quote)

I don't know about you guys, but I only recently started playing on Live, and I can barely find anybody with a mic. I'm sure it's probably different if you have a set group you play with, but I rarely hear anybody talking but myself.

 
aptanor said:
(I know this was sarcasm, it was just the closest related thing I could quote)

I don't know about you guys, but I only recently started playing on Live, and I can barely find anybody with a mic. I'm sure it's probably different if you have a set group you play with, but I rarely hear anybody talking but myself.
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Some of it is an age thing, too. My son talks with people all the time on XBL, even when he is playing on the computer (360 is on just for the chat). I just couldn't see doing it myself much. I just don't have any gamer peers and have no interest in talking to random people the few times I do play online But I suppose it would make a lot of sense if you were used to having a group of friends from school or something who played online together in the evenings.

As an aside, I think it is funny to hear talk of the "dudebro" contingent of Xbox fans because in my day and age the dudebros made fun of and put down video game players ;).

 
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Do you ever read what I write or just jump to conclusions?

But if what went on with the Xbox reveal falls on Mattricks shoulders you're insane to think he isn't expendable. I'd bet money that Don doesn't hold the same position come next Monday.



They won't know any implications on the reveal until q1 of 2014...

But you are apparently smarter than everyone so I don't know what the point in debating you really is...
 
WV Matsui said:
They won't know any implications on the reveal until q1 of 2014...

But you are apparently smarter than everyone so I don't know what the point in debating you really is...
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Just like the drastic changes in the Xbox One didn't come until Q1? By the way Microsoft's fiscal year 2014 starts July 1st, hence the shake up.

 
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RiPPn said:
But if what went on with the Xbox reveal falls on Mattricks shoulders you're insane to think he isn't expendable. I'd bet money that Don doesn't hold the same position come next Monday.
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How about this, you leave this site for good if he still has a job next Monday. If he doesn't I will leave. Sound like a deal?

 
Respawn explains the cloud:

http://www.respawn.com/news/lets-talk-about-the-xbox-live-cloud/

Okay, so player-hosted servers have a lot of downsides. So why do so many games use them? They have one really big upside – it doesn’t cost money to run the servers! Running hundreds of thousands of servers can be extremely expensive. EXTREMELY expensive. Like “oh my god we can’t afford that” expensive. So your player experience gets compromised to save (large amounts of) money.
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So to accept that the cloud is awesome, one must admit that P2P matchmaking is not. But I guess XBL is still better than PSN and totally worth paying for right now, plus all that value.

Obviously Respawn gets access to this for cheap since they have the exclusivity deal, but will this be as cheap for 3rd parties to implement into their games?

 
Respawn explains the cloud:

http://www.respawn.com/news/lets-talk-about-the-xbox-live-cloud/


So to accept that the cloud is awesome, one must admit that P2P matchmaking is not. But I guess XBL is still better than PSN and totally worth paying for right now, plus all that value.

Obviously Respawn gets access to this for cheap since they have the exclusivity deal, but will this be as cheap for 3rd parties to implement into their games?



I think of Microsoft is investing 700 million it will be pretty accessible.
 
WV Matsui said:
I think of Microsoft is investing 700 million it will be pretty accessible.
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Accessible doesn't mean cheap for 3rd parties. Not even Respawn gets them for free with their deal.

Investing 700 million almost guarantees they won't just hand this out for almost free to 3rd parties, especially with everyone saying Cloud = dedicated servers for all games.

 
What I am saying is they made that investment because they believe in it. It won't be free but I think the price will be low enough that the 3rd parties will want to utilize the feature.
 
I really wish MS would release a bundle with no Kinect. I'm simply not going to use it and if I do it's going to be very little. The fact that we have to buy it and the console doesn't come with a headset is BS. Especially considering the fact that the only headsets that are going to be available will be the standard $20 MS one and some really expensive Turtle Beach ones. 

 
Makes you wonder what Microsoft does with all that money they make from XBL Gold, if they are still charging developers for using the dedicated servers...

 
NinjaPenguin777 said:
I really wish MS would release a bundle with no Kinect. I'm simply not going to use it and if I do it's going to be very little. The fact that we have to buy it and the console doesn't come with a headset is BS. Especially considering the fact that the only headsets that are going to be available will be the standard $20 MS one and some really expensive Turtle Beach ones.
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There will be an adapter for your old headsets as well.
 
WV Matsui said:
What I am saying is they made that investment because they believe in it. It won't be free but I think the price will be low enough that the 3rd parties will want to utilize the feature.
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They also made an investment in DRM and believed in that too.

But what is the incentive for 3rd parties to use the cloud? I can see why Respawn, who is making an exclusive multiplayer only game would utilize it like they have, even for the 360 and PC.

 
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