spatenfloot
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No one here has a problem with someone posting positive views about the console. The problem is a couple of posters who bitch about PS4 discussion when they are the ones who keep bringing it up.Ashane said:
Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.
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thenutman69321
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The problem with that argument is the majority of us seem to in fact want an X1 and many of us will be buying one. It doesn't mean we don't have some major problems with it. To dismiss anyone that has an issue with the X1 as a troll is ridiculous. Many of us have proven to be able to change our views on the X1 based on decisions they make like reversing DRM while you and Matsui have proven that you will defend MS no matter what the topic is and just flat out ignore all comments that you can't think of a reasonable (in your mind) argument for.
Please feel free to stay over in the fanboy forum. I prefer actual discussions, not deletion central.
All terms are stupid. But there's no denying there's different sectors of the market.
People who game a ton and play a bunch of different genres.
People who game at on and only play one or two genres/franchises (madden, CoD, Halo, etc.).
Casual gamers who only buy a few games a year.
Non-gamers who may pick up a console for something like Wii Fit, Rock Band, Dance Central, Fitness Kinect games etc.
Whatever you want to call these, and other market segments, they exist and finding how to cater to the segments that generate the most game sales is key to winning the sale race and making profits. MS really needs to dominate the bottom three categories to win. Sony will clean up in the first most likely, and will need to do solid in the 2nd to come out on top. They don't seem to care much about the bottom two, with not packing in eye etc.
No one is giving you shit for liking the XBone (sorry, the X1 is a Comcast/Xfinity device), and no one cares that you like it. The only stuff I've seen is that one or two posts jokingly state you have a boner for the XBone or you must be a Microsoft employee/shill/apologist since it seems the XBone can do no wrong with you. The problem is that you seem to take any criticism of the XBone as a personal attack on you because you like it so much. It's like you have to justify your liking of the XBone when we are critical of it. You don't have to justify your liking of the XBone every time someone posts something negative about it. Also, there is no need to bring up the PS3 or PS4 every time something critical is posted about the XBone. The only reason I brought up those exclusives is because you go and make a stupid statement like that Killzone one. It's usually only when you, Ashane or Timbo bring up Sony, the PS3 or PS4 that anyone posts something about Sony/PS3/PS4. It's not like we're posting "Hey the PS4 is going to be so much better than the XBone", etc.
You have taken this so far personally that you automatically assume that anyone who has criticizes the XBone must be a Sony fanboy. As many of us have said, we are all gamers and most of us have both a 360 and PS3, myself included, and some us even plan on buying an XBone as the decision to buy one console at launch does not mean we will not be buying the other. That doesn't mean we can't be critical of Micorsoft and their policy decisions as to where they are going with the XBone. many of us are fervent Xbox gamers and don't like some of the things like the Kinect 2.0 and are just voicing our displeasure to being asked to pay an extra $100 for something we don't want and will never use. That doesn't mean we will never buy an XBone.
The point of this all is that we are all passionate gamers, many of us for decades (myself included at age 44) and we wouldn't be here otherwise. So cut out with the assumptions that we're adolescents and accusations of fanboyism, and stop taking this so personally. There's no reason we can't have a healthy discussion of the XBone, even if it's not all roses.
phantomfriar2002
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Hey let's talk some more about DRM. Especially because it's a dead issue other than Sony fanboys who will be dragging it out on message boards for years to come.
Doubtful honestly. It's easy to write that on a forum, and many of you have said you do not intend on buying a X1 until such a time as it has no camera (because you tape up your laptop webcam.... lol), or until it gets a exclusive you actually want. That does not equal buying a X1 sir.
Second of all, I've never ignored a debate in this entire thread. There are very few of MS's policies left that are not opinion based. Therefor, there is no right answer. You do understand that right?
If you actually read some of the threads on that X1 reddit, you'd see it is not a fanboy forum, but a place where we can discuss the X1 without some wanna-be troll coming in and drooling over his keyboard about how much Sony sucks his chicken. It's oddly refreshing to see a debate about the latency of the new Kinect camera and not see 20+ posts from complete idiots.
4thHorseman
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phantomfriar2002
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mr.me
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Wow, this thread is just a bunch of cherry picking horseshit being thrown back and forth. You keep saying "The PS3 didn't blow away the 360", then a valid sourced point is posted it's ignored.
Then some other guys chimes in "Well it's winning in the US!" as though that's what matters and just goes on to reply to the guy whose playing along with the "I can predict the future" nonsense.
Then some other guys chimes in "Well it's winning in the US!" as though that's what matters and just goes on to reply to the guy whose playing along with the "I can predict the future" nonsense.
I only mention it as it brought up a ton of ill will from gamers, and it isn't just forgotten when the back track on it. Many people, myself included, already made their decision to preorder the PS4 before they backtracked, and most seem to be sticking with it and staying in wait and see mode about maybe picking up an X1 too down the road.
The fact that they wanted to do something so anti-consumer still gives me great pause. The fact that they backtracked on it only after a month or so of solid and continued blowback over it doesn't do much to make me want to fork over my money to them any time soon.
Point being, it will be a long road for them to recover from the ill will that reveal created among serious gamers. Maybe they won't, and don't care as they think they can make their profits just from the mainstream and casual gamers who'll buy up their hardware and all the Gears and Halo games they can put out. Time will tell.
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4thHorseman
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Just showing that some people don't think it's a dead issue, and the ones that don't, aren't just Sony fanboys.
Pretty much.
The entire freaking thing should just be locked really. There is zero new discussion and has not been for the last 30+ pages.
It's simply pissing in the wind back and forth.
thenutman69321
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I am telling you I am buying an X1 and it is very likely to be the only console I buy next gen, just look at my sig to see how much I prefer MS consoles. If you don't want to believe me fine. Just another example of you flat out ignoring a fact. I have definitely seen you ignore posts from others. I can specifically think of posts I've made and io has made that directly addressed you that you ignored completely (sorry I'm not digging through 250 pages). Although I did lump you in a bit with Matsui there I was really thinking more about him who on a regular basis just completely ignores posts directed towards him.
Just had to throw in an insult about something you don't agree with right? So what if I tape up my webcam, they are hacked all the time, sorry if I like my privacy and want to take some steps to help avoid pictures of me being posted online without my knowledge.
We obviously get some PS fanboy posts around here but the vast majority of posts in here could in no way ever be consider troll posts. Please feel free to stay on reddit if you don't like the posts around here. Of course you had to end the post with an insult, yep people are idiots because they don't agree with you.
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It's still a live issue since the DRM is always going to be built into the machine. It requires a day one patch to disable it meaning the capability to activate it is always there. What guarantee does anyone buying an Xbox One have that it won't be re-activated at a later date?
Your Xbox Points will never expire, oh wait, now they will expire in a year after conversion. What's to stop them in 2 years from saying, in one year we will be re-activating the online DRM. Hey, we gave you one year's notice! That's an honest question I have for you guys considering buying an Xbox One. Do you really think there is a 0% chance they won't activate the already built-in DRM at a later date?
Your Xbox Points will never expire, oh wait, now they will expire in a year after conversion. What's to stop them in 2 years from saying, in one year we will be re-activating the online DRM. Hey, we gave you one year's notice! That's an honest question I have for you guys considering buying an Xbox One. Do you really think there is a 0% chance they won't activate the already built-in DRM at a later date?
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Exactly. That's what I mean by the ill will they've built up and how it will be hard to overcome. It can be done, but it will take a lot of effort.
For people who were very put off by the DRM reveal, point expiration date, etc. etc. there's just not a lot of reason to trust that MS cares much about consumer's rights. MS will have to do a lot to earn that trust back over the first couple of years of this next generation if they want to get folks like me back on board.
phantomfriar2002
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And yet you, on the other hand, just totally ignore the fact the 360 outsold the PS3 (and has been doing so for years) in North America, acting as if it's just another territory like Switzerland or something. The North American market actually means a great deal. Sony will probably sell more worldwide PS4's, and yet MS could still come out on top in the U.S. and claim victory here. Does it mean they "lost the console war"? Aren't making huge profits? Won't keep going with another console after it?
Here's the reality; every console in the current generation won something. The Wii, the 360, the PS3. All of them were successes...nobody ended up like the Dreamcast. The Wii U is probably going to be a big-time failure, but there's room enough for both Sony & MS to do well, together, next-gen. Whether Sony gets back on top here is a fascinating debate to have, but to pretend they're not at a disadvantage -- to some degree -- based on the sales in this territory isn't looking at the wider perspective.
phantomfriar2002
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So we can look forward to you whining about the DRM reveal for the next couple of years? Can't wait!
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4thHorseman
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This is what I'm most interested in seeing. Sony has quite a feat they have to accomplish to win over gamers here in the States. Yes, a $100 cheaper system is great and having more exclusives is fantastic, but that's not the part they have to succeed at.
They have to convince Xbox gamers that the transition over to a PS4 is worth it. That moving over is worth losing your achievements, starting a new friends list, learning a new system, etc.
And while I think the race will be closer here in the States, I don't think Sony can win it over entirely.
Deader2818
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Sales are sales but I often wonder how many of those "sales" are replacement units for broken ones.
Like, if your system breaks and you have to exchange it for a new one at best buy or something, does that count as a sale?
Like, if your system breaks and you have to exchange it for a new one at best buy or something, does that count as a sale?
I know I've replied to every post Io has made, he even got to the point where he stopped discussing it with me since we had both run out of talking points with our opinions. (Hey, look at that, two adults debating without cussing and calling each other names, holy crap!)
LOL... I wasnt aware you were one of the ones doing it. Sorry
But its still laughable. That just means you do not know enough to protect yourself, so it's no surprise that you would be wary of a Kinect type device because you would not know how to protect yourself in the first place.I'll stay on both thanks, at least until this thread is locked and gone, then go back to lurking until I'm needed again. Probably in defense of the Wii-U if I had to guess. Maybe I should ask for a check for defending these companies from angry little internet guys.
Hey, VW, hook a brother up with a paycheck?! (Kiddin!)
Mako1215
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Pretty much.
The entire freaking thing should just be locked really. There is zero new discussion and has not been for the last 30+ pages.
It's simply pissing in the wind back and forth.
Now that we can agree on.
I've come in looking for facts on the next gen and last gen bullshit keeps getting brought up.
This started out as a DRM thread. DRM is gone, and this should be locked up.
The entire freaking thing should just be locked really. There is zero new discussion and has not been for the last 30+ pages.
It's simply pissing in the wind back and forth.
Now that we can agree on.
I've come in looking for facts on the next gen and last gen bullshit keeps getting brought up.
This started out as a DRM thread. DRM is gone, and this should be locked up.
Not at all. There's nothing more to whine about as it's gone for now. Just saying people like me are antsy and it will take MS doing a lot of good over the first couple of years to entice us into seriously considering buying an X1 after the first price drop/slim model etc.
Right now there's a lot of discussing/debating next gen as the consoles aren't out yet. Once they launch discussion will shift to discussing the games on each etc. and these debate threads will largely die out.
Happens on every game forum, every generation. Months of debating/discussing leading up to launch, then people mostly go to discussing games on the systems they own. Wash, rinse and repeat in a few years when the next gen machines are revealed.
Agreed. I'd guess the X1 still comes out on top in the States. Just not by as wide a margin as this generation.
The dudebros will want to keep their achievements, CoD/Halo/Gears clans gaming on Live etc. A lot of more serious gamers will switch, but that segment of the market isn't enough to shift the scales to Sony's side.
All in all, that's not a bad way for the industry to go. Have one console that "wins" in the US and has the strong library of shooters etc. for those type of gamers while have a decent amount of other stuff, and the other "win" overseas and be stronger on Japanese developed games, indie games, niche titles etc. while still having a decent amount of shooters and other stuff.
There's no point having 2 or 3 consoles with largely identical game libraries. Better to have very different ones so people can just gen 1 machine that really fits their gaming interests, and more serious gamers can get two or three machines that complement each other well rather than being very redundant game library wise etc.
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phantomfriar2002
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That's true, and I ought to know better, lol. Not much to be said really either for the next few months until the consoles actually come out.
mr.me
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How did I ignore it? Yes it did outsell the PS3 in the US, but total sales is what matters. The sales in other countries aren't free handouts from a booth, they get money for them same as in the US. You just want to ignore total sales so that you can believe the 360 beat the PS3 in total units when that's just not true.
Again, the condescending behavior only continues.
We were discussing exclusive franchises such as Killzone, etc. WV Matsui said he did not think fans would be excited over another Killzone. I went on to list the exclusive franchises (not every single exclusive release) and mentioned that WV Matsui cherry picked one franchise and failed to mention that there were a lot more, especially the more popular Sony exclusives. I went on to list Microsoft exclusive franchises and even included Fable. As already stated I don't consider Alan Wake a franchise after only 1 release, but you failed to even address that. Again, you somehow take this as if I am a Sony fanboy out to get Microsoft.
If you guys can't even acknowledge that Sony had more exclusive franchises this generation, than I don't know where you are coming from.
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thenutman69321
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I am pretty sure you have ignored posts by him. I am positive you have ignored posts by me. I don't think you will find any posts by me insulting or calling you names except for maybe fanboy now and then. While I can find plenty where you insult others, hell just go back a couple posts. Just because you don't want to be banned so you don't insult a mod specifically doesn't mean you haven't insulted other people over and over again.I know I've replied to every post Io has made, he even got to the point where he stopped discussing it with me since we had both run out of talking points with our opinions. (Hey, look at that, two adults debating without cussing and calling each other names, holy crap!)
LOL... I wasnt aware you were one of the ones doing it. Sorry
I'll stay on both thanks, at least until this thread is locked and gone, then go back to lurking until I'm needed again. Probably in defense of the Wii-U if I had to guess. Maybe I should ask for a check for defending these companies from angry little internet guys.
Hey, VW, hook a brother up with a paycheck?! (Kiddin!)
It's not at all laughable. I know plenty about how to protect myself, maybe not the most but plenty.. Every program you use to block intrusions into your computer is updated reactively. Meaning the exploits and hacks have been out in the wild being used on people before your programs update themselves. No matter what steps you take to protect yourself the only sure fire way to avoid being hacked would be to completely disconnect yourself from the net. Tape over my webcam is acceptable enough for me. If you choose not to do so fine.
I would welcome you to stay here if you would actually show yourself not to be completely biased towards MS, you call others trolls and fanboys on a regular basis while also on a regular basis showing you see MS as some kind of perfect company free from all flaws.
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To be fair, for those that only play western developed games, sales in the US are most important. That's what's going to get more shooters, sports games etc. as exclusives. That's what's going to get games like CoD to have the most active community on that platform etc.
Talking about who "beat" who is fine and well--and global sales are the ultimate indicator there. But at the end of the day all that matters is what console has the games and experiences that best match your tastes.
And for a lot of MS fans, that's just going to be the one that sells the best in the US and is stronger in the western dominated genres they play.
I think that issue gets to the above. They don't acknowledge it as they aren't aware of it/don't see it as relevant as they have no interest in a lot of the Sony exclusives as they aren't in genres they enjoy.
Which is fine. An exclusive is moot if it's not in a genre you play. They just need to be more nuanced in their argument and maybe state things like "MS has more exclusives that cater to the US market" or to "the mainstream American gamer market" etc. rather than erroneously implying that the overall number of exclusives is greater.
As that's a fair point and a big reason why the 360 sold more than the PS3 in the US.
If I ignored any, I'll go back and look for sure and just PM you the responses if you like?
As to your second point, your webcam will only be accessed through your firewall. No ones going to break through a properly setup firewall, period. Mistakes happen because people are idiots. They are clicking links they should not be, accepting things from people they should not be, and on public wifi with limited to no firewall on a daily basis. You make it sound as if being hacked is pure luck of the draw, when I assure you that's not the case. Seeing as how this is what I (use to .. retired now) do for a living, I'm pretty damn sure I'm correct on the matter.
The third point is funny. If you would please take a glance at my Raptor, you'll see I'm a PC gamer. I've got thousands of hours into MMO's, many of which I doubt you've even heard of from Korea. My 360 is mainly my son's machine, as you can see from the games played. I play Fifa, and some RPG's on the thing.. that's about it.
I defended Microsoft's decision so heavily because it's my world.. PC. I've said it before, and I guess I need to say it again and again, but the digital transition in the PC world has been nothing short of amazing. It literally saved PC gaming, completely. Without digital, we would not be having the sort of discussion we are having right now, since PC gaming would be dead and gone or at most a shadow of its former self. Absolutely no one gave Microsoft that chance to see if they could pull it off, just like no one gave Steam that chance either. It's all guess work at this point, but I was, and still am, disappointed by gamers lack of patience to see what develops. If Microsoft flopped on their face, that was fine.. we had the PS4. If they did not, it would have been absolutely huge for gamers in general because Sony would have had to follow suit.
To be fair, this is a US site, with US posters. We arent on a EU site. While there are EU posters here, the majority of discussions resolve around US.
It should not need to be stated we are discussing US interests frankly. That's a given.
Viva Las Vegas
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I'm curious to see how the battery life in the controller holds up. Sucks they have a built in battery as the ones that came with the 360 really crapped out at holding a charge pretty quickly. I love having the rechargeable eneloop batteries at the ready.
mr.me
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Absolutely, that's a fair pont. If you look back I was specifically addressing this statement,"Then the PS3 should have blown away the 360 which it clearly did not do." Simply stating (with a source) the PS3 had outsold the 360. Then it was stated that the 360 had better sales in the US as though that suddenly makes the first statement true.
thenutman69321
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Lol, no that won't be necessary. I was just trying to say that I believe you were wrong and had ignored me at at least a few occasions before however as I also said before you did kinda get lumped in with Matsui with that comment who does it to so many people on a regular basis, my bad on that one.If I ignored any, I'll go back and look for sure and just PM you the responses if you like?
As to your second point, your webcam will only be accessed through your firewall. No ones going to break through a properly setup firewall, period. Mistakes happen because people are idiots. They are clicking links they should not be, accepting things from people they should not be, and on public wifi with limited to no firewall on a daily basis. You make it sound as if being hacked is pure luck of the draw, when I assure you that's not the case. Seeing as how this is what I (use to .. retired now) do for a living, I'm pretty damn sure I'm correct on the matter.
The third point is funny. If you would please take a glance at my Raptor, you'll see I'm a PC gamer. I've got thousands of hours into MMO's, many of which I doubt you've even heard of from Korea. My 360 is mainly my son's machine, as you can see from the games played. I play Fifa, and some RPG's on the thing.. that's about it.
I defended Microsoft's decision so heavily because it's my world.. PC. I've said it before, and I guess I need to say it again and again, but the digital transition in the PC world has been nothing short of amazing. It literally saved PC gaming, completely. Without digital, we would not be having the sort of discussion we are having right now, since PC gaming would be dead and gone or at most a shadow of its former self. Absolutely no one gave Microsoft that chance to see if they could pull it off, just like no one gave Steam that chance either. It's all guess work at this point, but I was, and still am, disappointed by gamers lack of patience to see what develops. If Microsoft flopped on their face, that was fine.. we had the PS4. If they did not, it would have been absolutely huge for gamers in general because Sony would have had to follow suit.
You would seem to know more about computers than me (although I'm by no means a novice) but I do not agree a properly setup firewall=perfect protection. Not luck of the draw either but again exploits and hacks to firewalls are out in the wild before being patched. Everything can get hacked this is just a fact of life.
As for the PC comment. I didn't know you gamed mostly on PC but I still think you are heavily biased towards MS even if you say it's only because their policies are making it more in line with PC's. Everything after that is pure opinion and much of it I do not agree with at all. Some I do agree with however like Steam saved PC gaming. Console gaming doesn't need saving though and used games were never so ingrained with PC gaming. It was acceptable at the time to PC gamers to be rid of used games, not without some fight but for most acceptable. It is unacceptable to console gamers.
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4thHorseman
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Not sure if posted yet, but rumored that Xbox One will have 12 GB of RAM instead of 8.
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=618996
Good news if true
http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=618996
Good news if true
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thenutman69321
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Didn't MS already confirm 8 GB though? I guess they're always free to change their minds there still is months before it launches. Definitely good news if true though obviously. On this topic why is it that consoles always launch at lower specs than good current PCs? More so last gen than this one but they still are lagging a bit behind the times. Price I guess?
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Cut the rest since it seems we've come to sort of a conclusion on those two points ;P
I freely admit I was heavily leaning toward MS more then Sony, pre DRM. Simply because I felt it was going in a direction that I had been in before, that was extremely good to me and other PC users, and we had a alternative if Microsoft could not deliver. If you go back, I even ask repeatedly what was wrong with the choice of having both consoles.. one DRM/Internet heavy, one not. The entire thing boiled down to well, if Microsoft succeeds then I cant rent/sell used games on craig's list anymore. Completely ignoring that if Microsoft succeeded, it would have been because of cheap digital game sales. (I think we can agree that's the only way Microsoft could have succeeded right?
)Now, it's back to just being whatever.. another two consoles that are 1/3rd the power of my PC. Though I still applaud Microsoft for the direction they attempted to take, balls of steel sir, balls of steel!
http://www.examiner.com/article/xbox-one-rumors-point-to-a-higher-clock-speed-but-doubtful-on-increase-ram
Here's another one.
The rumor is the GPU has been overclocked but only told to first parties. The ram I'm not sure of.. dev kits do have 12 GB, and Microsoft (and Sony as well) have multiple prototypes of their consoles running various ram configurations.. so it could be true I guess.
I would lean more toward them reducing the overhead of the OS requirements then putting in more ram though, but who knows!
"Absolutely no one gave Microsoft that chance to see if they could pull it off,..."
Including Microsoft itself. If anything you should be mad at Microsoft for not believing in their vision strongly enough to carry it through to fruition.
"I was, and still am, disappointed by gamers lack of patience to see what develops."
This is the problem I've had all along with how the XBone reveal went. There were some people who didn't like the 24 hour requirement, DRM, digital releases, etc., and there were some people, like yourself, who did. The latter group told the former group that if they didn't like the direction Microsoft was going with the XBone, then they shouldn't buy it as there was an alternative for them - the PS4. The former group did just that, and Microsoft backpedaled as a result.
So there should be no reason for you to be taking this out against the former group who did exactly what the latter group told them to do. The problem is it backfired and as a result Microsoft listened to the group who "voted with their wallets" rather than the group with which you agreed.
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Well, I'm a bit upset with Microsoft as well. However, they at least gave it a go and did not simply go "More of the same please!" and release a upgraded Playstation. Or decide to take out the camera last minute to undercut Microsoft in the dream of actually winning the US market. (Which may or may not happen)
As to why Microsoft back peddled, I'm not sure. Most like to talk about preorder numbers, however from the outside looking in, it still looks as if both consoles were and are preordering fine. They are a company, and thus it likely did have something to do with a financial outlook.
However, I think we can both agree that gamers are unforgiving, and we can clearly see that no matter what Microsoft does it simply will not change opinions on the matter. Which you can even see from people in this very thread.
Although I think your conclusion is a bit off. The "pro DRM" group told you to go out and buy a PS4. Not to spew rage and give fingers to Microsoft 24/7 like a angry 12 year old hitting puberty. The "pro DRM" group simply told you to vote with your wallets, and not nerd rage.
What actually happened was far from that. It was nerd rage on a unseen scale in the history of the internet. Again, the only logical conclusion for such nerd rage is that those who were nerd raging wanted a X1, and did not want a PS4 anyway, regardless of what they actually said.
lol I forgot all about that thread. It serves a purpose yet those that want a xbone circle jerk won't even go hang out there.
Exactly. I said as much earlier. Any post with a whiff of negativity towards the xbone or kinect is seen as some PS4 fanboy rant. It's absurd, and it's only coming from 3 people in this thread.
Well said. It'll probably go ignored... oh wait, it did.
And you wonder why the discussion goes the way it does. Just keep insulting everyone. That definitely leads to a better forum. Want a one sided circle jerk? Then go hang out on Reddit.
We're all passionate gamers. A lot of us are passionate 360 gamers. Just because we don't swallow every little thing MS is shoving down our throat with the xbone doesn't mean we're fanboys for the other team.
Yeah, this is not a 'do over' situation for MS. They broke a trust and have to earn it back. That takes time.
Ironic having to have a disclaimer for your stance, don't ya think?
thenutman69321
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The problem I have with the alternative argument is if they had failed then many people are left with a shitty system but I guess that is always a risk with a new console Then if they did succeed Sony would almost certainly follow suit leaving those of us not willing to put up with those policies with no console to switch to (Nintendo doesn't even come into my thought process but that's a entirely different argument we won't get into).Cut the rest since it seems we've come to sort of a conclusion on those two points ;P
I freely admit I was heavily leaning toward MS more then Sony, pre DRM. Simply because I felt it was going in a direction that I had been in before, that was extremely good to me and other PC users, and we had a alternative if Microsoft could not deliver. If you go back, I even ask repeatedly what was wrong with the choice of having both consoles.. one DRM/Internet heavy, one not. The entire thing boiled down to well, if Microsoft succeeds then I cant rent/sell used games on craig's list anymore. Completely ignoring that if Microsoft succeeded, it would have been because of cheap digital game sales. (I think we can agree that's the only way Microsoft could have succeeded right?
Now, it's back to just being whatever.. another two consoles that are 1/3rd the power of my PC. Though I still applaud Microsoft for the direction they attempted to take, balls of steel sir, balls of steel!
I would hope the only way the original plan for the X1 would have succeeded would have been because of cheap games but I'm not convinced that would have been the case. Plenty of people seemed to be willing to put up with the policies without any other factors. I am not convinced Steam like sales would have actually happened. MS history has shown me at least that they want to get every dime out of digital sales. Yes I know they just had a really good GoD sale but those are few and far between while most digital games are still highly over priced. The X1 would obviously have had different circumstances from the 360 but I can't just blindly assume and hope that would change things, I have to rely on what history shows me they've done in the past.
Definitely big balls although I'm glad they changed their minds.
I will never lump you in with others again Ashane. I still thoroughly disagree with you on so many things but I actually think you've been willing to discuss things today.
Some of us have said from the beginning we wanted an X1 but weren't willing to put up with the new policies. I agree most of the rage was current 360 gamers who hated the new policies with of course some PS fanboys feeding the flames.
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Mako1215
Banned
Isn't that speculation? If they had of come into it saying that we want to make gaming cheaper then MAYBE it would have worked for them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't remember the words cheaper gaming ever coming out of anyone.Cut the rest since it seems we've come to sort of a conclusion on those two points ;P
I freely admit I was heavily leaning toward MS more then Sony, pre DRM. Simply because I felt it was going in a direction that I had been in before, that was extremely good to me and other PC users, and we had a alternative if Microsoft could not deliver. If you go back, I even ask repeatedly what was wrong with the choice of having both consoles.. one DRM/Internet heavy, one not. The entire thing boiled down to well, if Microsoft succeeds then I cant rent/sell used games on craig's list anymore.
Now, it's back to just being whatever.. another two consoles that are 1/3rd the power of my PC. Though I still applaud Microsoft for the direction they attempted to take, balls of steel sir, balls of steel!
Did Steam say that? No, no they did not.
Of course its speculation, but if the price point of digital games did not go down, then can you not agree it would have been hard for them to actually pull off such a strategy?
For Microsoft to succeed in such a strategy, they would have needed lower prices, and a benefit to going all digital. (Perhaps a instant rental system via Redbox or Gamefly) Both of which would have benefited gamers in the long run.
If it failed, then it failed... MS could have taken the loss with very little real harm. Sony can not do such a gamble, as they simply do not have the financial security to do so. (That's not a slam against Sony either before I get that rammed down my throat.. it's simply saying if we want something new, and innovative, it's going to come out of Microsoft due to their financial well being currently)
DNukem170
Banned
Cut the rest since it seems we've come to sort of a conclusion on those two points ;P
I freely admit I was heavily leaning toward MS more then Sony, pre DRM. Simply because I felt it was going in a direction that I had been in before, that was extremely good to me and other PC users, and we had a alternative if Microsoft could not deliver. If you go back, I even ask repeatedly what was wrong with the choice of having both consoles.. one DRM/Internet heavy, one not. The entire thing boiled down to well, if Microsoft succeeds then I cant rent/sell used games on craig's list anymore. Completely ignoring that if Microsoft succeeded, it would have been because of cheap digital game sales. (I think we can agree that's the only way Microsoft could have succeeded right?
Now, it's back to just being whatever.. another two consoles that are 1/3rd the power of my PC. Though I still applaud Microsoft for the direction they attempted to take, balls of steel sir, balls of steel!
But, for many of us who already have a top of the line PC with Steam games, we already have a XBone as initially envisioned by Microsoft, and we didn't want another one. This is no different than complaining that the PS4 and the XBone in its new state are too much alike.
The main problem with making a console too much like a PC is that it isn't a PC. Why have a XBone in its initial incantation when I can have a PC that is upgradeable, will play older games, and already do all those things that Microsoft wanted to do with the XBone?
The only difference was location, and as they say in the real estate business, location is everything. The location in this case was the family/entertainment room, and that is what Microsoft was trying to own. Microsoft was pretty straight-forward with this. The problem is that they did it half-assed and then dropped the ball. If Microsoft would have included a DVR in the XBone, then they would have turned more than a few heads. Yes a DVR is not part of a gaming console, but Microsoft made it clear that the XBone was going to be just more than that. If a DVR had been included users could drop their cable DVR, and the monthly charges that they would be saving alone would justify $500 or even more. It would also justify the always connected to the internet, at least in that function as a DVR. Cloud service would be more believable and acceptable if you could store your TV recordings in it like you can with iTunes and Amazon. Tangible things like that are more beneficial to the consumer than promises such as "games will run better on the cloud."
Instead of something beneficial and tangible we were told by Microsoft to "trust us and our vision" when there was really no defined benefit to us entrusting Microsoft to make that vision come true. We were being told to accept DRM that was already unacceptable (Uplay; SimCity) and known to fail. We were being told to accept not having the ability to sell used games to anyone, at anytime and for any price we deemed acceptable. What we got in exchange was nothing more than vague and ill-defined promises of a family sharing plan that sounded too good to be true, a forced upon motion control device that should have been optional, or at least have the option to be turned off and/or disconnected, and no assurances whatsoever that digital releases would mean lower prices.
But this has already been discussed time and again. Steam is essentially two services - one that enables digital games to be played and one that allows consumers to buy said digital games. The latter function is not exclusive to Steam. A PC gamer has several options through which he/she can buy digital games that are activated on Steam. Having several options is of course good for the consumer and this is what drives lower pricing of digital games on the PC. Having a game released digitally alone does not guarantee that.
The XBone in its initial state was not going to be the same as Steam. There were no promises that digital releases would have a lower price point. We were at the mercy of Microsoft. Microsoft's policy of digital releases on the 360 were, if anything, revealing as to how the XBone digital releases would be priced.
Why lock this thread up? This is like the thread of the year, we won't see another one for awhile. :lol:
You must have forgot what Microsoft tried to do on PC with Games for Windows Live. Thankfully PC players stood up against them.
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So, if I had to guess.. you are the type who thinks the vast majority of corporations are evil entities?
I'm fine to trust, as long as I have a option to fall back on if that trust is broken. In this case, I did. Two in fact. (PC and PS4 respectively)
You say no promises were made, my reply would be: When have promises *ever* been made by any company of "lower prices if we do Y"? Simply because it's not that simple. Y could happen, but it could cost more then you thought, it could require more back end support, etc.. there are a ton of things to go wrong, but all the public see is you promised us lower prices if this happened. No sane executive would ever do that.
The bottom line to me is.... for the first time in the history of console gaming, we had three completely different consoles, with completely different directions, and completely different goals. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft were all going a different way at a intersection. That was exciting. Now? Now we've got Sony and Microsoft doing the exact same thing, and Nintendo going "But guys, what about meeeeeeee...!" because they simply cannot get any press after the explosions that were Sony/MS. (Guys?! Look guys, new smash brothers?! GUYS???? HELLLLOOOOOO)
I was there, and my name was on the petition actually
(I think at the time it was one of the fastest petitions in internet history, but I could be wrong :X)The problem with the PC market right now is everyone wants to be Steam. I know you guys think competition is fabulous and all that, but it really is hurting the PC market. As more and more publishers realize how successful steam is, they think "We want that PIE!" and here we go.... Origin is just the most widely recognized one that is a detriment to gamers in general.
It honestly would be best if we just had Steam and a non DRM equivalent (GOG or whatever your boat is). The "me too" guys need to just die in a fire.
Of course. But gaming has always been an international hobby with many Japanese franchises from the Nintendo games, to Final Fantasy to Resident Evil selling millions in the US, to small niche games having still large and passionate followings etc.
The Xbox sucks for Japanese developed games as it rarely gets any other than the blockbusters like Resident Evil. For the average american dudebro who just wants to play games like CoD, it's not an issue. For serious gamers who've been playing a variety of genres for years, it's an issue and relegates the Xbox platform to being their secondary gaming platform at best. Two the dudebro, only US sales matter. To the serious gamer, worldwide sales matter.
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They don't really need to go different directions at the beginning. The consoles have 10 year lifespans and many things can be added as time goes by via firmware updates or add-ons. It gives people the choice to upgrade the experience and keeps the company focus on one thing instead of a jack of all trades master of none situation. Xbox 360 and PS3 can do so many things right now that I couldn't imagine were possible when I originally bought them.
- Status
bread's done