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PS3 to $299 rumor? (OP Updated: SD links)


#31 daminion   Bah CAGiversary!   2503 Posts   Joined 16.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 01:48 AM

I dont see why everyone thinks the Elite is such a great deal. for 50 dollars more, you get a blu ray player, wifi, you dont have to pay for live. The difference between the two services isnt THAT great.


That's your opinion.

1. I could care less about blue ray. I'm perfectly happy with my DVDs thank you very much.
2. Live costs $40 / year... and if you are a CAG it's often far less.
3. The difference between the two services is immense IMHO. Microsoft did an incredible job with Live, the achievements are pure genious. Plus the PS3 has very very few titles that can be played online multiplayer with more than one person on the same console. Warhawk is the only title that comes to mind. Sony's service is nowhere near comparible to Live right now.

Plus the game selection for the 360 completely blows away that of the PS3.

I bought my brother in law a 360 last Christmas and we play it often. But there have been times when we just didn't have anything to play. There are a lot of single player games and only a handful of coop or multiplayer games. We do not play sports titles, so that cuts the selection.

#32 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:17 AM

well, the 'larger' unit won't be dropping to $300 now, will it? This would be the 'lesser' unit, the one that started at 20 gigs and $500. Dropping it from its current $400 to $300 is a lot more plausible than the 80 gig (originally 60 gig, $600...now 80 gig and $500) dropping 2 bills.


Point taken, though if they drop the 40 and not the 80, that would leave a $200 gap between the consoles. A mighty large leap with the main differences being PS2 BC, 40GB of space, and 2 USB ports (I think that's all). so if they drop one, they'll drop both.

Damn Myke, no need to be so testy. And come now, it's pretty much universally accepted at this point that the only reason Sony went with the Blu Ray player standard in the PS3 was to increase the install base and as a weapon against HD DVD. From their perspective today, it looks like the strategy worked, but it didn't do PS3 sales any favor. They would have had a much greater PS3 install base had they gone without the Blu Ray player since the cost would have been significantly (at least 20%) less.


It's not being testy, it's being honest. The games are on BD, some of the consoles come bundled with BD movies in the box...and I firmly believe that it is the consumer's fault if they buy something at all, let alone a $400+ console, without being fully informed of what it can and cannot do. The information is out there and easy to access - so how is it a "trojan horse"?

So they scored Blu Ray users at the cost of PS3 users. Could be the stings of previous format defeats pushed Sony execs a bit too much to ensure Blu Ray would emerge the victor. How much will it help them in the long term, with digital and HD download, etc.? Who knows.


I do. They still sell CDs, don't they? And they're the vast majority of all music sales, aren't they? How are we to believe that an XBLM-like service will replace BD or HD, when our cable and internet infrastructures don't allow for reliable and consistent streaming of 1080p video and lossless audio? Speaking of which, I wonder how much revenue XBLM generates. Methinks there's a reason we don't have access to that information.

As for the PSP comment, it was widely reported on gaming sites that Best Buy and possibly WalMart, at the very least, put significant pressure on Sony to cut the price since the units were sitting gathering dust. It also had a couple of pretty quick price cuts, so it wouldn't be very surprising. I'm not going to waste my time on some fact finding mission for you, you can go right ahead though and search to your heart's content.

If you don't like it chalk it up to speculation, FUD, whatever you'd like. Though I'm sure you already have.


"FUD" is grammatically incorrect in this case, and an already overused phrase. In the absence of evidence, though, speculation works.

#33 Dr Mario Kart   SD/2D Defense Force CAGiversary!   10957 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

Dr Mario Kart

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:21 AM

I'm alright with not using the term 'trojan horse', but we do need a convenient way to describe the process of new technology piggybacking to push an alternate marketshare agenda that has nothing to do with the primary function of the product that it has infected.

#34 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:30 AM

...which, as you and I have discussed, is not only not true, but opens itself up to a slippery slope where only the Atari 2600 should exist as a console.

#35 Dr Mario Kart   SD/2D Defense Force CAGiversary!   10957 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

Dr Mario Kart

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:33 AM

Alternatively, we'll continue to use the term trojan horse whenever new formats are being introduced outside of standalone players, and you can continue to bitch about it until alternative terms are coined.

#36 Dr Mario Kart   SD/2D Defense Force CAGiversary!   10957 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

Dr Mario Kart

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:35 AM

Wait wait wait.

Lets take it one thing at a time.

Do you believe that the inclusion of BluRay in the PS3 had more to do with pushing the format as the next standard in movies or was it more to do with improving the game experience.

Yes, its both, but which is more?

#37 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:38 AM

*sigh*

What isn't a trojan horse then, if we're going to arbitrarily handpick elements of console technology and define them as unnecessary for gaming? Waggle controls? component cables? stereo sound? 16-bit graphics? "blast processing?" Analog controls? USB inputs? memory card readers? gamertags? Where do we lie when we try to factually define "necessary" and "unnecessary" in a factual way, instead of relying on individual anecdotal "well, **I** don't use ____" stories to suggest that such technology is unneeded?

It's moot at that point, isn't it? BD is unnecessary except when it is.

EDIT: "which is more?" That's imposing a choice when there doesn't necessarily have to be one. Financially, Sony can add a substantial revenue stream if BD takes off, but that, while a fact, doesn't mean it had more to do with pushing it as a format than changing the in-game experience.

#38 Ice2Dragon   Cuckoo For Killing Stuff CAGiversary!   3427 Posts   Joined 15.1 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:42 AM

That's your opinion.

1. I could care less about blue ray. I'm perfectly happy with my DVDs thank you very much.


And heres the problem I run into nearly everyday.

The differences between DVD and Blu ray are outstanding.. audio and picture quality wise.. you dont understand how much better blu ray is.

Dont knock it until youve seen and heard what movies were intended to be like..

#39 Dr Mario Kart   SD/2D Defense Force CAGiversary!   10957 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

Dr Mario Kart

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:45 AM

I've stated several times that utility or use from person to person is completely irrelevant to my definition.

The key is whether or not a part of a product using new tech is being counted as marketshare in a different market in a competition against another competitor.

Even though the Wii and the 360 outside of the HDDVD add on can do a lot of different things, what parts or functions of them are being used in such a way? Consoles can browse the web now, but every Wii sold doesnt get counted as sales of a web browser and shown to people in an industry outside of gaming, as part of some sort of web browser marketshare war. If the Wii used Netscape when it was new, and was being counted as SALES marketshare against IE, the Wii would be a trojan horse for Netscape.

#40 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:53 AM

The key is whether or not a part of a product using new tech is being counted as marketshare in a different market in a competition against another competitor.


Which, as I've said, is irrelevant if the technology does have a demonstrable impact on the games on that console. PS3 titles benefit from BD, irrespective of it's place in the movie format war.

Moreover, if "competition" is key to defining the item as a "trojan horse," then you've completely ruined your own argument. It is no longer relevant if the technology is prominent in the market (such as, say, DVD playback) or not (say, waggle controls). It only matters that there is a *dispute* over avenues for using that technology. Which means that the same technology is both a trojan horse and not a trojan horse - it is the context that matters. Rendering the actual technology moot relative to the market situation, no?

#41 Dr Mario Kart   SD/2D Defense Force CAGiversary!   10957 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

Dr Mario Kart

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:55 AM

Which means that the same technology is both a trojan horse and not a trojan horse - it is the context that matters. Rendering the actual technology moot relative to the market situation, no?


This is exactly right! Its all relative to timing and market situation. The very same product can both be a trojan horse and not at some other point in time!

Once there is a BR drive in every home, the PS3 will no longer be a trojan horse for it! Because the invasion is complete!

Trojan horse is only used during the time frame at the start of an invasion.

If Sony's controller was the only one to use bluetooth tech, it would be a trojan horse for bluetooth. But since phones, computers, some cars, and a bunch of other things use bluetooth, its not!

#42 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:59 AM

Unless something challenges it, which is, as we know, inevitable.

EDIT: It's not so much whether or not there is a BD player in every home, but whether or not HD is considered a relevant competition. It's just as easy to blame HD DVD's existence in this situation, frankly.

Let me ask you two questions: was the PSP, at any point, a "trojan horse" for UMD movies? If so, when, and what was it competing against? If you answered "yes," it still a trojan horse for UMD movies today?

#43 Dr Mario Kart   SD/2D Defense Force CAGiversary!   10957 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

Dr Mario Kart

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:11 AM

I would say that introducing a new technology involves a similar challenge, even if theres not a direct competitor.

When a movie studio chooses to support UMD or not, I would imagine they would look at both PSP hardware sales, and DVD data.

Theres not another disc based portable movie format, so theres not a direct retail competitor, but they're competing less directly with movie formats that are condensed to a memory stick, and consumer apathy to a retail market that didnt exist before. Those things are more abstract or dont have a dollar value though, so it would be a competition of mindshare rather than marketshare. Maybe makers of portable dvd players were watching carefully and hoping UMD would fail?

I think the main problem with the term trojan horse is that it carries a negative connotation. If you put it nicely, you would just be saying that the PS3 helped BR win the war against HDDVD, which I dont think anyone will dispute(as long as you concede that the war is won).

#44 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:20 AM

I would say that introducing a new technology involves a similar challenge, even if theres not a direct competitor.

When a movie studio chooses to support UMD or not, I would imagine they would look at both PSP hardware sales, and DVD data.

Theres not another disc based portable movie format, so theres not a direct retail competitor, but they're competing less directly with movie formats that are condensed to a memory stick, and consumer apathy to a retail market that didnt exist before. Those things are more abstract or dont have a dollar value though, so it would be a competition of mindshare rather than marketshare. Maybe makers of portable dvd players were watching carefully and hoping UMD would fail?


'sat a "yes," a "no," or somethin' in between?

I think the main problem with the term trojan horse is that it carries a negative connotation. If you put it nicely, you would just be saying that the PS3 helped BR win the war against HDDVD, which I dont think anyone will dispute(as long as you concede that the war is won).


It's not the negative connotation, but the idea that PS3 owners bought the system unawares of what it could playback (which data support for 30-40%, I suppose) - plus the implication that it's "unfair" in a way, since it was not purchased as a standalone. Thus, sales are circumstantial, rather that those who bought HD DVD players because they knew what they were buying.

It's all irrelevant in the end, since HD DVD is as good as dead, and the last remaining test for Blu-Ray is to see if people will upgrade from DVD to it (so you have the competition from DVD, as well as the current state of the economy being deep, deep in the shitter - but that's getting way off track). So, trojan horse or not, it has won, so it appears to be far more of a "safe" buy for its price, since the future of BD as a movie format is more certain than it was just two weeks back.

#45 hufferstl   Get your symbols kid CAGiversary!   2567 Posts   Joined 17.8 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:21 AM

PS3 titles benefit from BD, irrespective of it's place in the movie format war.

When you have to load 4 gig of Devil May Cry onto your Hard Drive because the BluRay drive cannot read the data fast enough, I would say that not all titles directly benefit from the format. Yes, the size is awesome, but at a price. The people with smaller drives will run out of space soon if other games follow this mechanic. And loading this data will take a reported 25 minutes.

And as for the PSP retailer pressure, here is the first link I found, but it does say that it is "rumor". Though you really aren't going to see a "New Walmart-Approved Sony PSP price reduction" press release.

http://kotaku.com/ga...-psp-244346.php

#46 Dr Mario Kart   SD/2D Defense Force CAGiversary!   10957 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

Dr Mario Kart

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:23 AM

If Sony intended to use UMDs outside of the PSP pending its success, then it wouldve been a trojan horse. Otherwise its just a proprietary format that has no meaning outside the bounds of the system.

In short, I dont know, since it didnt succeed.

I'm going to go with yes though, on the grounds that I think Sony had grander plans for the format. It just failed so hard that we'll never know what was in store.

#47 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:33 AM

When you have to load 4 gig of Devil May Cry onto your Hard Drive because the BluRay drive cannot read the data fast enough, I would say that not all titles directly benefit from the format. Yes, the size is awesome, but at a price. The people with smaller drives will run out of space soon if other games follow this mechanic. And loading this data will take a reported 25 minutes.


One game? Moreover, the install will give the PS3 version absolutely zero load times, so that is a benefit of the system's technology on the whole.

There are examples of games that have little to no load times, install times, and still use more disc space than a DL DVD would. But, I'm a bit tired of trying to defend the PS3 from people who each and every criticism levied after it. It's not perfect by any means; if you prefer a system with pain-in-the-ass DRM restrictions, coupled with an almost guaranteed failure - that's your prerogative. I mean that sincerely.

And as for the PSP retailer pressure, here is the first link I found, but it does say that it is "rumor". Though you really aren't going to see a "New Walmart-Approved Sony PSP price reduction" press release.

http://kotaku.com/ga...-psp-244346.php


Now that you mention it, that does seem more reasonable. The damned thing was $250 for two years or more, wasn't it?

#48 Thomas96   I am Thomaticus! CAGiversary!   6079 Posts   Joined 18.2 Years Ago  

Thomas96

Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:35 AM

Sony needs to sell a lot of PS3s this year. There's a lot of exclusives coming out for PS3 and they need to sell high volumes, or else in 2009, they'll all be on 360. Plus Sony is making money on blu ray discs, since it ousted HD DVD. You now have a unified market for people to buy games and movies. Why not lessen the price of admission. in the past people had cheap consoles and made money off software... now since blu ray is the leader its the same concept, sell cheap ps3 at 300 dollars and make money off software - movies and games.

#49 Drnick   Champion Cheapass CAGiversary!   590 Posts   Joined 18.8 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:49 AM

I agree, for a long time, the mantra of video game consoles has been to lose money or break even on the system itself, and make the money back on the games.

right now there arn't a whole lot of PS3's in people houses (around 4 mil or so, last time I checked) 360's and Wii's are around the 14 mil region.... (big difference)

so for an exclusive game (say metal gear solid 4) to do well, it has to sell to almost EVERY SINGLE PS3 owner (not very likley)

how can sony help this? by getting MORE PS3's into people homes, and how can the do this? by lowering the price (I just read an article last week that said Sony has cut its cost on the PS3 by over 50% since launch, due to lower blu-ray prices and cutting out the backward compatibility).

it would be a VERY smart move, especially while Sony has HD-DVD on the mat with the ref at an 8 count. Sony wins 2 fold because it is the inventor of Blu-ray, so having a PS3 in peoples houses allows it to make money on Blu-Ray discs and PS3 media.

#50 Rig   Rig = Lunar CAGiversary!   14236 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 05:08 AM

Hopefully, a drop happens while some local stores still have 60 GB. Really wanting to pick one up, but not at the current price.

#51 geko29   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   891 Posts   Joined 15.8 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 01:30 PM

One game? Moreover, the install will give the PS3 version absolutely zero load times, so that is a benefit of the system's technology on the whole.

I wouldn't count on that. Heavenly Sword takes 15 minutes to install, consumes 2.5GB of disk space, and still has load times. Will doubling the disk installation package improve that? Maybe, maybe not.

#52 StrandedBrit   Invaders Must Die CAGiversary!   2241 Posts   Joined 15.0 Years Ago  

StrandedBrit

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:20 PM

right now there arn't a whole lot of PS3's in people houses (around 4 mil or so, last time I checked) 360's and Wii's are around the 14 mil region.... (big difference)


I know VG Chartz isn't all that accurate but they have the PS3 at 9mil, and I remember Sony themselves saying that as of the end of 07 they sold over 8 mil. Just saying.

#53 velvet396   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1404 Posts   Joined 16.2 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:44 PM

well I didn't mean to create a rumor here, that's for sure. I'll see if I can find the posts I saw on SD.

#54 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.3 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 02:45 PM

No harm done - especially if it pans out to be true.

#55 ryanbph   Man Down CAGiversary!   7233 Posts   Joined 18.8 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:01 PM

Considering how anemic sales were for alleged system sellers (lair, r&c etc) they got to do something to prevent further 3rd party development from abandoning ship. R&C was supposedly a great game, that wasn't a brand new IP and still sold horrible. It would have to be hard to justify to Insomniac to continue to solely support ps3 with such horrible sales on a good/great game. While I would think that a price drop would wait untill the launch of MGS 4 and/or GTA, maybe they are getting a lot of pressure for 3rd party companies. The NPD's are out yet and if a solid sony franchise like ratchet sold so poorly, then maybe a lot of multiplatform games didn't do so hot either.

#56 velvet396   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1404 Posts   Joined 16.2 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:13 PM

Granted, none of these are smoking guns, but that's why I originally came here to ask about this.

http://forums.slickd...82&postcount=63

This January 28th $100 price drop is just SD chatter.

http://forums.slickd...010&postcount=8

i dont have the details BUT people should try to sign up for this and then buy a PS3 when they drop to 299! on or around january 28!


http://forums.slickd...83&postcount=13

The price drop is a rumor, albeit a very widespread rumor.


http://forums.slickd...34&postcount=25

Rumors do come true...especially this one since I got a good source in the entertainment business hearing about this.
$299 for PS3 soon.


http://forums.slickd...506&postcount=7

i heard rumors that 299 will be the new price of 40gb models.

http://forums.slickd...0&postcount=162

Not trying to spread rumors, but I do have a few friends in the audio entertainment business that is attending CES this week and they too heard that PS3s will be dropping in price. Supposively, Sony is going to announce that this week.(that was Jan.4)


http://forums.slickd...69&postcount=30

I, too, have heard the Jan. 28th date as a possibilty for a $100 price drop...


2 of those quotes were from the same person. I'm tired of searching for more, so be that as it may.

#57 Thomas96   I am Thomaticus! CAGiversary!   6079 Posts   Joined 18.2 Years Ago  

Thomas96

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:17 PM

jan 28th! wow.. that would be perfect... get the price low NOW.. so that people can use their income tax to buy a ps3. Plus if you have a blu ray player at 300, then you can have a PS3 at 300... especially since inow the 40gb version is basically a blu ray player w/ a hard drive.. [no more ps2 parts to worry about] that would take Nintendo by surprise.. and we know their greedy asses aren't ready to price drop Wii! lol

#58 ryanbph   Man Down CAGiversary!   7233 Posts   Joined 18.8 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 03:43 PM

maybe they will do it to help push dmc4 on there system..isn't that releasing the following week?

#59 Snake2715   Gotta Have Your Toys... CAGiversary!   8551 Posts   Joined 18.8 Years Ago  

Posted 15 January 2008 - 04:07 PM

I will be both pissed and happy for those to get it. I just got my 40gb on 12/17/07 and will be missing the 30 day window by 9 fuckn' days. That extra $100 would be nice to have actually.

#60 snowsquirrel   solid squirrel CAGiversary!   1317 Posts   Joined 16.1 Years Ago  

snowsquirrel

Posted 15 January 2008 - 06:00 PM

1.) Insomniac did very well with R:FoM.

2.) In North America we greatly overestimate our importance. PS3 is sucking lagg in NA, but is steadily outpacing Xbox in Japan, and Europe. I would like to see. Developers don't care if where their games sell, as long as they sell.

3.) People also forget that the PS3 came out a year after the 360. So when claiming number of games, etc, it may never have the same number of games, but always 1 year behind.


4.) The large installs are kind of a cheat IMHO. Look at R&C. You rarely if ever notice the game loading. They manage to intersperse short cutscenes etc, so that the loading is done in the Background. Heavenly sword totally could have done this too. I think top tier developers will stop using this technique and do more streaming like insomniac does.

~S