For bookworms--The Amazon Kindle

sailorchrono

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http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=365797001&pf_rd_i=507846

Just wondering, has anyone been interested in this thing yet or has any impressions? I'm actually quite interested in acquiring a unit since I'm a college student with a lot of reading to do... and it seems easier on the eyes which is a very big plus to me (I wear glasses and my eyesight is getting worse by the day -_-..guess it's not a good idea I'm on here so much ^^')

Oh and it's an e-book reader for the uninitiated (and those that don't want to check the link out). It's pretty cool; it uses "electronic ink" so it displays like a real newspaper. You can get monthly/daily subscriptions delivered to it as you sleep! However, this thing is going to suck up money like no tomorrow if you're really an avid reader...

Furthermore, the EVDO network it uses (so you can access wireless anywhere without a wifi hotspot...the same network cellphones use) is as stated from the user's manual "Free for now". That makes me pretty wary about hidden costs later on... besides, as it is I think the unit should have a lower initial cost considering all the money we'd spend to put e-books on there anywho, no?

Here's a review by a fellow student:

"I have been beta testing the Kindle for the past few weeks, and I can say without equivocation that this device will soon become a MUST HAVE in many professional fields (but it also is great for the avid reader of books for entertainment). If you travel a lot, or require rapid and accurate access to references (as I do), the Kindle is definitely soon to be a necessity. I am a medical student, and I loaded a medical library onto the one I've been beta testing (including everything I need to study for the board exams I'll be taking in a few months). I've been an avid reader my entire life- rarely without reading material close at hand from the time I learned. If anyone is a book connoisseur, it's me.

The Kindle is fantastic. If I need to look up a term, or a treatment, I just type it in, and seconds later, the Kindle returns with all references to it within the entire library. Now, I know how valuable this is... it's a reference library I can carry with me. More than that, though, the ability to find the information I need quickly could save lives. Also, the readability is superior to any PDA. The "Electronic Ink" format reduces strain on the eyes, and those of you with vision problems can adjust the font size to VERY LARGE fonts. Sure, the PDA has plenty of useful medical tools you can download, but I find more often than not, I want to be able to see the full text involving the condition, diagnosis, and treatment of the term I'm looking up.

I know that I can't feasibly carry a medical library with me for some of my future endeavors (volunteering with Doctor's Without Borders), but with the Kindle, that's possible now... I just put the library on the Kindle, and pack it with me.

It's more than that, though. The Now Now service allows the user to ask any question in the world, and real people will research it for you, and within 24 hours, you will have answers on your kindle, waiting to be read. You can also upload music to your device, so that you may listen to a background melody as you read. In addition, the web browsing features are also useful, and while at the moment are still limited, are bound to get better with time. The most useful sites, namely reference sites, though, are easily accessed and browsed.

Also, there is the 24/7 access to the Kindle store directly on your unit, so you can access new books any time you want. The connection also lets you access any books that are stored on your Amazon account. It doesn't matter if you can't fit every book on your Kindle (although I've fit over $1000 of books on it, with room to spare)... the ones that don't fit are stored remotely with 24/7 access.

Oh, and don't worry about PDF's. I believe they're working on adding that to the accepted formats, and in the meantime you can just use a MOBI tool to convert your PDFs to MOBI format, and they'll read fine on your Kindle. I also see in the Kindle forums that Amazon has a conversion service that Kindle users may use to have PDF's converted to Kindle formats.

Flying on planes? No problem. Just a flip of a switch turns the wireless off, and your Kindle is safe to use on your flight. Plus, if you have the wireless off, your battery can last up to a MONTH!!!

Other stuff? I can check my webmail, sub to my favorite news sources (Various Reuters blogs), sub to magazines, etc. Annotations, bookmarks, and highlighted text are saved to your "Clippings" files, which are text files you can load to your computer for editing and printing.

Is this worth the $399? DEFINITELY. And it's only going to get better. I've already made suggestions for useful upgrades, accessories, and services, and it's been clear that they've been heard. One accessory I've suggested is a solar cover that can charge it, so that it is completely autonomous (good for in the field with Doctors Without Borders). As it is, the battery is extremely long lived, particularly when the cellular connection is turned off... far longer than any PDA I've used. With the wireless turned off, the battery can last up to a MONTH.

One service I've requested for Kindle is an edition upgrade service. A lot of textbooks come out with new editions every couple of years. I've already had to replace most of my medical textbooks because of this, selling the old ones. I have suggested an edition upgrade service, where the user is notified of the new edition, and Amazon could buy back the old one at market value, letting the user get the new one at a price that is the difference between the market value of the old edition and the price of the new one, with a small commission.

Finally, I've also suggested parental controls. Some parents may not want their kids to have access to all of the content they've loaded to their Kindle, or direct access to the Kindle store.

When the beta program is over and I have to return it, I will only do so very reluctantly... It's worth the $399, but that's money I just don't have.

**** The bad: Well, there is no security on purchases at the Kindle store, which means that if it's stolen, or if the kids get a hold of it, you can have your bank account drained pretty quickly. However, I have addressed this issue with the development team and tech support, and my understanding is that they are working on correcting it as we speak. I have asked that they put a password requirement for purchases. The nice thing is, for software bugs, if you have your wireless activated, the updates will automatically download and install to your unit.

Also, yes, the content available is somewhat limited, but not by much, and it expands every day (I just subscribed to a magazine that I like, and it wasn't available a couple of weeks ago).

Recommended for: Any avid reader, college students, professionals, military (after all, they can't take a lot of books to many of the places they're sent), people who travel a lot, etc. "

(guess that was a wall of text)
Anyways.. so there it is :p
 
How does the marketplace/library service work? how much is it for each book purchase?

It mentions that they purchased a magazine, its B&W so how does the magazine subscription work?
 
The magazine sub is delivered to you each month, before it even hits the newstands.. however, from my understanding, the pictures aren't going to be included (gg Amazon). You actually have to purchase the sub, to have it delivered..

Each book price differs.. the price is pretty much Amazon's listing price except for the NY Time's bestsellers which are about 10 dollars with.... free shipping obviously :p
 
im interested. the price bothers me a bit, especially since i dont get a break on the books and i dont have a hard copy. id be more interested if the price was 30-50% lower than the hard copy, or if i bought the hard copy and recieved the digital ersion for free or a small extra cost.

id really need to know someone with one i could mess with or be able to really play with it in store.

this is osmethign that has great potential though, i could see this being a BIG item.
 
I agree. I definitely think there should be an option for a digital copy at a heavy discount if you buy the physical book. As it is, the digital model is looking to suck big time monies :/ There's going to be no used e-book market, nor can you trade, loan, or borrow them via an 'e-library'.

Well, this is a first gen product.. hopefully if the Kindle makes it to the second gen, it'll have a cheaper price tag along with better/more features and better (more affordable) e-book price structure. I wish I could play with one in a store too.. these things look way neat :D

Oh btw, I've heard the wait on these things are like 3-4 months!!!
 
My aunt owns one of these, got it for Christmas. She really likes it, although she hasn't used it a ton yet, as she had a backlog of paper books she'd purchased and feels like she needs to read those first.

In the short time she's owned it, more and more books are coming out. They are for sale on Amazon but also from another vendor (don't remember who) and the price point seems to hover around 9.99 per book, so better prices than audio books. She said download time is really quick, and memory space is quite adequate. The only download time that was longer was when she downloaded some books of the Bible, but that's dense text, so it's understandable.

The ability to make the text larger or smaller with a sliding button is SO cool. There's little to no lag time to it, and you don't have to buy a special edition. There's a backlight, not like gameboys but more like what I'd call pimp lights on the undercarriage of a car (didn't say that to her, see biblical reference above!) around the back of it. In the holder, there's also a light that comes out for additional lighting. It's less than half the size of a laptop and very light.

One question I didn't ask her when I was there is if there's anywhere you can underline text or put in your own notes, like you can write in the margins of books. THAT would be a sweet addition for me, as I do book clubs and read books for classes.

I definitely think in a couple years when they have tons more offerings and they've perfected things, I'll be buying.
 
Ah, yeah.. I have a PSP as well... but the reason why the Kindle screen is so awesome is because it's a lot easier on your eyes =) And I definitely need that with my weak eyes T.T

And browneyedgal68-- I heard that you CAN make notes in the margins and copy/paste text/underline. The Kindle has a built in qwerty keyboard, after all =).
 
[quote name='sailorchrono']Ah, yeah.. I have a PSP as well... but the reason why the Kindle screen is so awesome is because it's a lot easier on your eyes =) And I definitely need that with my weak eyes T.T

And browneyedgal68-- I heard that you CAN make notes in the margins and copy/paste text/underline. The Kindle has a built in qwerty keyboard, after all =).[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I know. I really want a Kindle so I don't need to carry around all my textbooks, but its a tad too expensive. Until the price goes down, the PSP will have to do.
 
I have mixed feelings about ebooks and ebook readers. Having several books in such a compact form would be great for trips and school. I may be one of few, but reading a novel not in book form just feels wrong. There is something nice about a physical book and placing it on a bookshelf when I've finished.
 
I'll get one after a model revision or two. A touch screen would put me over the edge without thinking twice...
 
A coworker has had one of these for about 7 months now. He got it back when they were first offered. He likes it and recommends it to nearly everyone else in the office.
 
[quote name='sailorchrono']
And browneyedgal68-- I heard that you CAN make notes in the margins and copy/paste text/underline. The Kindle has a built in qwerty keyboard, after all =).[/QUOTE]

Sweet.
 
I'm interested, but it's way too pricey for me now. I'd also miss having physical copies to actually put on a bookshelf; there's something rather comforting about a room full of books. It would be fantastic for traveling, though, I've never been fond of audio books and packing enough books to last me for a two week vacation would require an extra suitcase.
 
Anyone else bought one of these since March? I am considering one. Either it or the Sony reader. I just worry that I like the idea of one better than I'd like to use one. I read a lot...but I have no more room for bookshelves in my apt. And I am a fast reader too...not sure how that will translate to the Kindle.
 
My boss has one of these and I transcribe from it every once in a while. I don't like it and think it's horrendously over-priced. Only good thing really is the screen is beautiful and crisp. I was really surprised; it doesn't even look like an electronic screen (unless you pick at it).

Thing is, pictures look sortof off. Only letters look good. There are no edges to hold the stupid thing. It's awkward and I can't even pick it up without one of the side buttons going off and losing my place. I don't use it enough for it to be intuitive, but at first couple of uses, it's slightly confusing, and it might be off-putting to someone not savvy or patient. The price of ebooks is terrible. If you're a fast reader, page loads/turns might be annoying, it takes a bit to clear the screen and load the next.
 
[quote name='torifile']Does the kindle do PDFs? I've got a ton of academic journal articles in PDF format that I'd rather not have to print.[/quote]


According to Amazon, "It does not fully support Portable Document Format (PDF), but Amazon provides 'experimental' conversion to the native AZW format. Users may also convert PDF files to supported formats using third-party software."

I still refuse to even consider purchasing the Kindle until the product has gone through a couple generations. First-generation products are really not worth the hassle most present.
 
I'm interested in the concept, but like others I'll wait a few generations for kinks to be worked out, features to be added (pdf support etc.) and especially for prices to come down.

These things shouldn't cost nearly as much as they do. They should be taking a hit on them and making profit on book sales--basically like taking a hit on game consoles to make it back on software.

But maybe they are and the technology is just still to expensive for these things to be worthwhile.
 
For everyone asking about PDFs, taken from Amazon's product page:
PDF conversion is experimental. The experimental category represents the features we are working on to enhance the Kindle experience even further. You can email your PDFs wirelessly to your Kindle. Due to PDF’s fixed layout format, some complex PDF files might not format correctly on your Kindle.
Which means that if it's full of pictures and charts and other weird graphics, they're going to screw up. If you've got a PDF and your very strange professor has decided to leave half the pages turned 90-degrees, they're going to screw up. If the scan of the pages looks like shit in the first place, Kindle's going to be pissy about it. If you've been playing with some weird version of Adobe pro that makes annotations and tags extra features on the PDF, Kindle will not know what to do with them, and either crash or not show them at all.

Also, I didn't know that if you try to email your documents (to or from the machine), it will charge you. It's only 10 cents, but after you already paid almost $400 for the damn thing...
 
As others said, this was something I saw on the Amazon page, and at the right price, I'd be very interested in. But, $400 is just too much to seriously consider it right now (I still use the library, so I only purchase books I want to read that the library doesn't have or are always checked out).
 
That's probably buy design since it uses that "electronic paper" format that's easier on the eyes than monitors, lcd screens etc. Maybe that technology can't do color yet?

Anyway, yeah I should really use the Library since I have one 2 blocks from my apartment.
 
Only reason I can see them doing gray only is to save on cost or maybe batt life but then... why the fuck is it still $359?!? I mean shit... it doesn't even have a backlight. Then again that takes batt. life...

I think I can do books on my touch for crying out loud and that was $300 for me. (32gb)

Just seems like someone in design or engineering is smokin crack...
 
Must be cost, as a quick google showed there are electronic paper displays that can do color--and the battery life sounded pretty good on them.
 
The kindle uses a electronic paper display which is why it is so costly. The benefit however is that the screen is easy on the eyes and feels similar to reading something on paper.

I still use a PSP for my ebook needs. I think I may get a iPhone or Touch in the future.
 
I just don't think I'd enjoy using one of these as much as reading a real book, from an aesthetics point of view.

Not to mention the fact that the price Amazon charges is before any actual content on the Kindle, right?
 
Yeah, price just needs to come down on electronic paper. The Sony E Reader that uses electronic paper is $260 or so--Kindle as the 3G wireless for accessing the store included which adds cost as well.

Electronic paper is great though, I can't stand to read on laptops, palm pilots etc. as my eyes get fatigued. So I'll definitely buy one when the price is right.
 
i mightve mentioned it in this thread or another on the kindle, but if amazon would allow me to download kindle format copies of all the books ive previously purchsed form them id be all over it. id be especially nice if theyd discount kindle copies when purchased with hardcopies.
 
Why does it need a keyboard on it? Seems like a waste of space. If you need to type they should just have virtual keys like the iPhone, that way the screen could be bigger. I haven't seen one in person though so maybe I'm off?
 
You can take notes on the margins, it has a dictionary etc.

I'd imagine giving it a touch screen (if that's even possible with electronic paper displays) would add costs and lower battery life was well.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']You can take notes on the margins, it has a dictionary etc.

I'd imagine giving it a touch screen (if that's even possible with electronic paper displays) would add costs and lower battery life was well.[/quote]


geez, last few complaints/questions have been mind boggling...

...and I'm sarcastic if anyone didn't pick that up.


I think the biggest gripe is the cost for books, even electronic copies are pretty pricy and most have DRM and will eventually expire.

It would be better for a person to have a subscription system, read as many books for 19.99 a month.

Still though I'm not a huge reader, so regular books are fine.

I could see a reader heavy person though to buy into the sub.
 
[quote name='xycury']

I think the biggest gripe is the cost for books, even electronic copies are pretty pricy and most have DRM and will eventually expire.


[/QUOTE]

Wait, the book's DRM expire? So if I download a book I can't go back and re-read it say, 3 years from now? fuck that, that kills it for me right there.
 
[quote name='VioletArrows']Well the books do have DRM, but their license depends on Amazon. And Amazon ain't likely to go anywhere.[/quote]

Yeah guess that's just saying the obvious when I stated it.

But I though there were some books that only lasted for 3,4 & 5 years.

Last time I looked at it.....
 
[quote name='Scorch']i'll be interested when it has a backlight[/QUOTE]

Ain't gonna happen. A backlight would ruin the entire intent of the e-paper technology.

Backlit displays are transmissive. It's pumping photons right at you, making for far greater eyestrain than reading off of paper. Paper is reflective. You read it by light reflected from indirect sources. The same applies to e-ink and e-paper displays. This is why you can spend hours with a Kindle without the kind of pain you'd experience doing the same from an LCD panel. This becomes even more of a concern as you get older and the eyestrain kicks in faster.

The same little lights that work with conventional books work just fine with a Kindle-type device, too. Driving it from the Kindle will cause a major drop in battery life, though. And that is another big selling point of these devices.
 
I've been researching e-readers for awhile now and I really want the Kindle 2. I was going to get the PRS-505 but Amazon support, the new design and more books have drawn me over.

The main reason I want one is because I'm sick of actual books. With a e-reader I don't have to worry about wear-and-tear or where to put them. For the same price, they are on my device, forever, all in one place.

[quote name='VipFREAK']It amazes me that for over $200 these readers only do black and white... reading.[/QUOTE]

Like everybody said, it's e-ink display.

Color e-ink displays aren't possible for mass production yet and even if they were, the main purpose of the e-book is reading. If you want a all in one device, this isn't for you.

[quote name='VipFREAK']Only reason I can see them doing gray only is to save on cost or maybe batt life but then... why the fuck is it still $359?!? I mean shit... it doesn't even have a backlight. Then again that takes batt. life...

I think I can do books on my touch for crying out loud and that was $300 for me. (32gb)

Just seems like someone in design or engineering is smokin crack...[/QUOTE]

I don't think you get the draw of an e-reader like the Kindle.

The biggest draw of e-ink is that it doesn't use a backlight. No backlight, no strain to your eyes. It looks like paper, not a computer screen. Also without a backlight, an e-book can go a long time on a single charge since the only time it uses power is to redraw the screen when you turn a page (7500 page turns with Sony or almost 2 weeks with a Kindle with the whispernet off)

[quote name='keithp']Why does it need a keyboard on it? Seems like a waste of space. If you need to type they should just have virtual keys like the iPhone, that way the screen could be bigger. I haven't seen one in person though so maybe I'm off?[/QUOTE]

To access the Amazon store or to add notes. I don't think a virtual keyboard would work on something like the Kindle since there is no touchscreen (only that little nub)

[quote name='xycury']I think the biggest gripe is the cost for books, even electronic copies are pretty pricy and most have DRM and will eventually expire.[/QUOTE]

They will never expire.

[quote name='dmaul1114']I'd imagine giving it a touch screen (if that's even possible with electronic paper displays) would add costs and lower battery life was well.[/QUOTE]

Sony's PRS-700 has a touch screen and a backlight which they were able to pull off by adding another layer over the top of the e-ink display and adding LED lights on the side. Only problem with that is that people are reporting that it's more cloudy/less contrast than the PRS-505, has a problem with glare and the backlight works like shit since there is no light in the middle.

It's also $400 for the PRS-700

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZUKaEf1eww

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5wBUfVsnuU

---------

The PRS-505

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2q3_bwUZ4
 
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[quote name='Sporadic']
The main reason I want one is because I'm sick of actual books. With a e-reader I don't have to worry about wear-and-tear or where to put them. For the same price, they are on my device, forever, all in one place.
[/QUOTE]

That's the main reason I want one too. So many books I've bought just end up donated, or boxed up and stuck in my parents place as I move pretty often and don't want to deal with them until I settle down.

Again, I really should just make use of the library, but then you have to find time to pick up the books, make sure you return them on time, renew them if you don't finish reading them on time etc.

So I'd rather just pay $10 for a digital copy that I can read at my leisure that doesn't take up space or have to be returned. But I'm just not willing to shell out $359 for one. $150-200 and I'd be all over a Kindle.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']That's the main reason I want one too. So many books I've bought just end up donated, or boxed up and stuck in my parents place as I move pretty often and don't want to deal with them until I settle down.

Again, I really should just make use of the library, but then you have to find time to pick up the books, make sure you return them on time, renew them if you don't finish reading them on time etc.

So I'd rather just pay $10 for a digital copy that I can read at my leisure that doesn't take up space or have to be returned. But I'm just not willing to shell out $359 for one. $150-200 and I'd be all over a Kindle.[/QUOTE]

You should look into a Sony PRS-505 or a used Kindle 1. You can get a PRS-505 for around $268 and on Amazon, I've seen used Kindle 1s for $200-240

Biggest problem with Sony is that their titles costs more, no whispernet and if you are into Stephen King, all of his earlier titles are obscenely expensive ($30 for The Stand :roll: )

Check out that review I edited into the end of my last post.
 
Another company to keep an eye out for in this field is Plastic Logic. Their demos at CES were very impressive. Very thin and much bigger than the other devices currently available, making it much more suitable for a magazine or newspaper style layout, or just the equivalent of a hardcover book. It also had a touch input.

They don't expect to ship a product to market late 2009 but it looked very promising, even if the price will still raise eyebrows.

The price thing is going to be the biggest limiting factor for a long time to come. Other aspects will improve. Better grayscale and even color are in development but ultimately the mainstream adoption will hinge on it being something the average person can buy on impulse after some quick calculations on the cost of feeding it book files compared to buying new books.
 
I want something that will display PDFs and let me scribble notes all over them. Which appears to be quite a ways off. Oh well, I can hold out, much to the chagrin of my eyes.

[quote name='epobirs']Another company to keep an eye out for in this field is Plastic Logic. Their demos at CES were very impressive. Very thin and much bigger than the other devices currently available, making it much more suitable for a magazine or newspaper style layout, or just the equivalent of a hardcover book. It also had a touch input.

They don't expect to ship a product to market late 2009 but it looked very promising, even if the price will still raise eyebrows.

The price thing is going to be the biggest limiting factor for a long time to come. Other aspects will improve. Better grayscale and even color are in development but ultimately the mainstream adoption will hinge on it being something the average person can buy on impulse after some quick calculations on the cost of feeding it book files compared to buying new books.[/QUOTE]

Hmm. Hmm. I'm a lifelong Mac user. Would the price even raise my eyebrows? ;)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I want something that will display PDFs and let me scribble notes all over them. Which appears to be quite a ways off. Oh well, I can hold out, much to the chagrin of my eyes.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that would be a Tablet PC. Many models, in stores now. No need to wait so long as you don't expect Apple to do something in what would be for them a niche market.


[quote name='mykevermin']Hmm. Hmm. I'm a lifelong Mac user. Would the price even raise my eyebrows? ;)[/QUOTE]

That depends. Did you plunk down $2500 for the original, largely useless 128K Mac? (Or the more usable $10,000 Lisa?) Or did you wait for models that offered more than a demo at a more affordable price? If you were old enough and not wealthy, there was a point at which the Mac (or personal computers in general) became a reasonable purchase vs. a luxury to fantasize about.

The indications have been that $100 to $150 would be the magic price point at which this kind of item would become as common among adults as kids bearing a DS, although plenty of adults would then see it as reasonable to give to a child at that price. (You just know somebody at Nintendo has been tracking the technology so they can sell it as a Pokedex.) A lot of people who can see the utility are still reluctant to carry around an expensive item that appears delicate. Better to deny themselves than become deeply attached to something they cannot afford to replace.

Others will have other rationales. Price is always going to be a huge factor. Right now the manufacturing capacity is low enough that amazon hasn't had to worry about excess inventory. But eventually that will improve to the point that reaching more consumers will require new marketing approaches. While just improving production capacity will lower the price some and automatically expand the reach, we can also expect to see more subscription deals where the hardware is heavily subsidized by a commitment to purchase X number of books within a set time frame.

By 2020 I expect something like the Plastic Logic plaque to be well under $100 with no attached obligations. Then we'll start having the first generation who regards the bulk of individual books as a quaint anachronism. Some people are ahead of the curve. In the 70s, a friend of mine had a very successful novel in which a character had a 'library' in his home that was lined with shelves of books but it was a projected illusion. This was just a comfortable place to gather for conversation and meetings, with the household computer able to send any of the displayed books to a person's personal handheld computer on demand.
 
[quote name='Sporadic']You should look into a Sony PRS-505 or a used Kindle 1. You can get a PRS-505 for around $268 and on Amazon, I've seen used Kindle 1s for $200-240

Biggest problem with Sony is that their titles costs more, no whispernet and if you are into Stephen King, all of his earlier titles are obscenely expensive ($30 for The Stand :roll: )

Check out that review I edited into the end of my last post.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, the price of books, smaller selection and the lack of Whispernet has killed the Sony for me.

I thought about a used Kindle, but I always hate buying used electronics. I'll probably just wait it out another year or so and see where prices on the Kindle series go.
 
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