5 for 1, "We do not negotiate with terrorists" Swap....

E

egofed

CAGiversary!
For or against? Did we get a good, Cheapass deal, or did we endanger everyone to get a possible deserter back?

 
We got fucked.

This is just a shitty deal on so many levels, luckily there are 5 more of them out there loose, killing our men. We have just set a precedent that we will make the trade, with anyone.

#FAIL

 
Really apparently these 5 men were great instigators, the only danger these men had was their mouths....

I rather they had traded George W Bush for the solider  :)

 
burritoman said:
We got fucked.

This is just a shitty deal on so many levels, luckily there are 5 more of them out there loose, killing our men. We have just set a precedent that we will make the trade, with anyone.

#FAIL
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If our men got the hell out of their country, these 5 wouldn't have a chance. I don't think they're hopping on a Delta flight to Atlanta anytime soon. And if these 5 weren't that dangerous before, I'd sure as shit think they are now, after being detained for over a decade. Heck, if I was their kid, who grew up without a father thanks to the detention, I'd be radicalized as a mofo and have an unbelievable amount of hatred for the US.

Charge those men, or release them. Until then, we operate like a splinter group of terrorists.

#ILLEGAL

 
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http://www.ijreview.com/2014/06/144228-harry-reid-knew-bergdahl-exchange/

1. In 2013, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney stated that the Obama administration would never remove Guantanamo prisoners without consulting Congress:


“As we have long said, however, we would not make any decisions about transfer of any detainees without consulting with Congress and without doing so in accordance with U.S. law.”


Ooooppps....another lie. How fast would you lose your job if you were caught lying this often?

 
I do agree with berzirk.  This unlimited detention is BS and not the way of the "land of the free."

 
Oh I think Obama is every bit as terrible as Bush in terms of freedoms, privacy, wars, and indiscriminate killings. I don't trust a thing he says, and to have him lie again is par for the course in American politics.

The United States continues to choose a foreign policy designed to create the terrorists of tomorrow, while asking themselves the question of "Hey! Why do they hate us?"

 
you need to first set a example before you can be a leader.......

Last I checked, America proclaimed itself as a leader and example of FREEDOM

Maybe the reason we don't like them is because they call out our B.S ... just sayin

 
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kilik64 said:
Last I checked they werent US of A citizens.
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That's the game you think the US should play? If you're not a US citizen we can do whatever we want to you? Enjoy being mailed pieces of POWs from abroad, rather than negotiate/hope for their eventual release.

When are you running for Secretary of State? Sounds like you've got some incredible diplomatic vision.

 
Considering everything that has come out about Sgt. Bergdahl, seems like a crap deal, especially seeing as that poor bastard Tahmooressi is rotting in an Mexican jail because he took a wrong turn.

 
It amazes me how you liberals care more about the rights of terrorists who hate Americans than actual Americans.
 
RPGNinja said:
It amazes me how you liberals care more about the rights of terrorists who hate Americans than actual Americans.
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It amazes me how humankind forces themselves to care more about assigning a political belief, than what is right and wrong. I'm a registered Independent and have never voted for a Democratic candidate in my life. Wait...I might have voted for Ron Wyden one year. I can't remember. I don't think I did.

Try harder.

If you're representative of most Americans, then I'll be the first to admit, I hate Americans.

And actually, while I'm at it, let's break down your post logically. You're saying screw the (alleged) terrorists, their rights shouldn't matter compared to an American...so that means you should fully support trading (alleged) terrorists to free a single American, since that American is more valuable. What's the American to foreigner ratio in terms of human worth? I've got an idea that you would probably love, let's make (alleged) terrorists worth 3/5ths of a person! In America we've appreciated that number before.

 
berzirk said:
It amazes me how humankind forces themselves to care more about assigning a political belief, than what is right and wrong. I'm a registered Independent and have never voted for a Democratic candidate in my life. Wait...I might have voted for Ron Wyden one year. I can't remember. I don't think I did.

Try harder.

If you're representative of most Americans, then I'll be the first to admit, I hate Americans.

And actually, while I'm at it, let's break down your post logically. You're saying screw the (alleged) terrorists, their rights shouldn't matter compared to an American...so that means you should fully support trading (alleged) terrorists to free a single American, since that American is more valuable. What's the American to foreigner ratio in terms of human worth? I've got an idea that you would probably love, let's make (alleged) terrorists worth 3/5ths of a person! In America we've appreciated that number before.
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Are you seriously kidding? Did you really say "alleged" terrorists? They are Taliban fighters they are terrorists. Stop being afraid to call them what they are. And YOU need to try harder. If I am saying the rights don't matter for a foreign terrorist I would never support trading for a single American because this is the key part... HE WAS A DESERTER. That is treasonous and he should actually be sentenced to death. There was no draft so it wasn't like he was forced to go into the military.

And call yourself an independent all you want, you are just a coward who won't admit you are a liberal. You don't impress me with your faux free thinking "I look at both sides" of the issue BS.

And if you need anymore evidence you are a liberal you take a topic and always somehow.. someway relate it back to race. I swear you guys are on the biggest guilt trip ever. Its like all the closeted racists are liberals because they have to constantly accuse other people of it before they are exposed.

Oh btw... Obama himself just said yesterday that he himself admits he is putting American lives in danger by doing this swap. What an idiot.
 
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I don't trust the gov't to tell me the truth about its mundane policies, let alone its "black ops" detention ones. Over zealous or just plain incompetent detention can deprive innocent people of their freedom. If we have proof that someone is a terrorist, then try them in court and punish them. Allowing our or any gov't to change the rules as they see fit is a terrible policy. Look at the GM bailout. Bankruptcy laws were in place, yet the gov't decided to do its own thing despite the legal rules in place that citizens would be expected to follow. Defend American soil, avoid blowback and realize that our bases on foreign soil are mainly reasons for others to hate us. Would you like foreign soldiers in America?

Did we even try to do a 1 to 1 release? Or track these guys if we have indisputable evidence of terrorist activity and kill em later? Drone strike! Its crazy to think that fanatics are going to act honorably, and I do agree with RPGNinja that this is a dangerous precedent set by our gov't (even though we have a history of such dangerous "swaps").

 
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I think this is the closest to agreeing with egofed I've ever been. Our handling of the alleged terrorists at Guantanamo is a disgrace and against the very core of what this country was founded on, that people shouldn't have the most sacred of rights taken away from them, their freedom, at the mere will of a more powerful person. And yes, they are alleged to be terrorists until found guilty in court. We're not a monarchy that just decides on a whim to imprison people for speaking out against the crown. We have protections and place and processes to make the government prove up alleged indiscretions before they can take away someone's freedoms.

Yes, I understand the government doesn't want to give them trials for fear of revealing secrets but we're 12 years past the start of our "war on terror" which means some of those people sitting there have been there over a decade and frankly the secret information the government doesn't want to release can't be very relevant at this point anymore anyway. It has basically amounted at this point to "we know you're guilty" "how" "because we have all this information" "what information" "it's a secret".

I'm not sure how I feel about this prisoner swap, really. On the one hand if this was a real declared war then a POW swap would be no big deal, the issue here though is the Taliban isn't a nation state, nor is it one that signed the Geneva Conventions treaty.

I don't think people ever stop to think why these terrorists hate us so much. It's shit like Guantanamo that make it much easier for them to hate us and convince others to fight against us. Maybe, just maybe we could stop being the World Police Force and those rising up against us might decrease in numbers.
 
There's so much common sense in this topic, it's scary.

If the prisoners at GitMo are so really deadly scary, then I disagree with the prisoner swap.

With that said, if the prisoners at GitMo are so really deadly scary, then put them on trial and let them get convicted.

If the prisoners at GitMo are *not* so really deadly scary, then let the poor guys go and don't use human beings as political trade fodder.

But it's okay, Obama's gonna close GitMo any day now... right?
 
RPGNinja said:
Are you seriously kidding? Did you really say "alleged" terrorists? They are Taliban fighters they are terrorists. Stop being afraid to call them what they are. And YOU need to try harder. If I am saying the rights don't matter for a foreign terrorist I would never support trading for a single American because this is the key part... HE WAS A DESERTER. That is treasonous and he should actually be sentenced to death. There was no draft so it wasn't like he was forced to go into the military.
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No, I'm seriously serious. You're an alleged pedophile. There now since I said that, that means we can all choose to assume it's true or false. In the absence of knowledge, an accusation is all we need, right? Do we have video showing them fighting against soldiers...in their country...in their land...as an occupying force? Do we have proof they were really dangerous, naughty boys? Maybe. Maybe not. Show me the proof, then I'll drop alleged from the phrase...alleged pedophile.

And your America, land-of-the-free response to a guy who (allegedly) deserted his platoon is death? Wow, I think I hate Americans more and more after reading what you write. Let's see what other idiotic, xenophobic, patriotic drivel you can come up with in reply.

And call yourself an independent all you want, you are just a coward who won't admit you are a liberal. You don't impress me with your faux free thinking "I look at both sides" of the issue BS.
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Hahaa!! That was awesome. Thanks for clarifying my political beliefs. Clearly I was confused until some keyboard warrior on a videogame website came in to educate me. I'll be sure to update my political affiliation the next time I think about voting.

And if you need anymore evidence you are a liberal you take a topic and always somehow.. someway relate it back to race. I swear you guys are on the biggest guilt trip ever. Its like all the closeted racists are liberals because they have to constantly accuse other people of it before they are exposed.
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Wait a second, did slidecage and Knoell have a baby? It's you, isn't it? Come on, you can admit it. But you never answered my question. If American lives are so much more valuable than anyone else, then wouldn't it make you a traitorous, flag burning hater of freedom, if you didn't want to trade every Guantanamo detainee for the life of just one captive US soldier? I mean, bring our troops home wherever they are...unless they're in someone else's country killing them. Then I guess you support then being overseas.

Oh btw... Obama himself just said yesterday that he himself admits he is putting American lives in danger by doing this swap. What an idiot.
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Obama is a dangerous idiot. You'll get no argument from me. Bush made me personally less safe while he was in office. Obama has carried on those policies and expanded some, and as a result American's personal safety has never been worse in my lifetime. I think he's worth considering as one of the 10 worst presidents in US history. I admire the ever-living shit out of George Bush Sr, and I would put him in my top 15 presidents of all time.

So, what say you (alleged) pedophile?
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and your America, land-of-the-free response to a guy who (allegedly) deserted his platoon is death? (quote from above)

(not sure if its still allegedly as he put down his gun and walked off and its documented by multiple people who were there that this happened as well as 6 guys getting killed looking for the bastard. (sorry alleged bastard as I have no actual proof he is a bastard)

Not his response, the United States of America military code of justice...

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicelawlegislation/l/blucmj85.htm

c) Any person found guilty of desertion or attempt to desert shall be punished, if the offense is committed in time of war, by death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct, but if the desertion or attempt to desert occurs at any other time, by such punishment, other than death, as a court-martial may direct.

Pretty sure we are at war in Afghanistan (over oil right?) so death is not out of the question.

 
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kilik64 said:
Last I checked they werent US of A citizens.
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This is a very very dangerous statement and ideology. I value my American citizenship very much and appreciate the US greatly but I value human life much more so than geographic or political barriers. I'm all for patriotism and good old US of A cheers but I think Benjamin Franklin said it best:

"Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature."
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The current and past few administrations have not upheld the belief that freedom is a natural right.

 
ttados said:
This is a very very dangerous statement and ideology. I value my American citizenship very much and appreciate the US greatly but I value human life much more so than geographic or political barriers. I'm all for patriotism and good old US of A cheers but I think Benjamin Franklin said it best:

The current and past few administrations have not upheld the belief that freedom is a natural right.
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My freedom is more important than some un american towel headed camel jockey terrorist whose sole purpose in life is to kill innocent people of his own country and bring about the downfall of the rest of the non Muslim world, namely Murica.

And I see your Benny Franklin quote and raise you an Alfred Pennyworth:

Alfred Pennyworth: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

 
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kilik64 said:
My freedom is more important than some un american towel headed camel jockey terrorist whose sole purpose in life is to kill innocent people of his own country and bring about the downfall of the rest of the non Muslim world, namely Murica.
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Ah, I get it now, you are a bigoted cunt. Thanks for taking the mystery out of it (alleged) pedophile.

 
kilik64 said:
My freedom is more important than some un american towel headed camel jockey terrorist whose sole purpose in life is to kill innocent people of his own country and bring about the downfall of the rest of the non Muslim world, namely Murica.

And I see your Benny Franklin quote and raise you an Alfred Pennyworth:

Alfred Pennyworth[background=#fcfae7]: Well, because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.[/size][/background]
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Quoted for posterity! :rofl:

I guess calling someone a "sandn*gger" is too PC for you, eh?
 
I originally voted for Obama in 2008 precisely because I thought he would be different from Bush in the foreign policy department. In the beginning, I liked that our image was being repaired somewhat.

Holy shit, it ended up being the complete opposite of what I expected. 

 
Spokker said:
I originally voted for Obama in 2008 precisely because I thought he would be different from Bush in the foreign policy department. In the beginning, I liked that our image was being repaired somewhat.

Holy shit, it ended up being the complete opposite of what I expected.
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Well, at least Obama hasn't thrown up on anyone... ;)
 
I am curious about what constitutes consulting congress?  Clearly they "knew" that this exchange was a possibility and even likely.

I've found an excellent long form piece about the swap.   http://www.afghanistan-analysts.org/bergdahl-and-the-guantanamo-five-the-long-awaited-us-taleban-prisoner-swap

"[SIZE=10.5pt]Fazl is the only one of the five to face accusations of explicit war crimes and they are, indeed, extremely serious. One would also want to say that Wasiq was deputy head of an agency which carried out torture – except that torture has always been carried out by Afghan intelligence whoever has been in charge and, indeed, this has been no bar to close cooperation with it by the US and other countries since 2001. There is no or little evidence of criminal wrong-doing against the other three men[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]. "[/SIZE]

 
I can't believe this thread has devolved into seriously equating quotes from fictional characters from movies in response to Benjamin Franklin...

I just, what...
 
How is this swap a scandal? The government is proud of its drone program, so what value are those five Gitmo detainees when somebody is planning a "surgical strike?" If el Presidente didn't get that soldier back, wouldn't we be complaining about how we value our Gitmo detainees more than one American? (regardless of whether he went AWOL)

The government negotiates with terrorists all the time, how else would you describe Congressional inaction and the Tea Party caucus?

 
Okay, I'll take it back. Considering how the same people who are always thumping their chest for the second amendment always love to talk more than trash about the government in the same breath. And those examples above.

 
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Not sure how wanting to overthrow the government is wrong if you think that government has gotten too big for its britches.

founding fathers did it once upon a time.

 
kilik64 said:
Not sure how wanting to overthrow the government is wrong if you think that government has gotten too big for its britches.

founding fathers did it once upon a time.
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Because generally, the people saying they want to overthrow the government want to install their own huge, massive government.

Unless someone is an anarchist, I don't want to hear anything about abolishing a government. Why? That person doesn't believe in abolishing the State. They merely want to replace the current government with their own gang of thieves and thugs.

 
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kilik64 said:
Not sure how wanting to overthrow the government is wrong if you think that government has gotten too big for its britches.

founding fathers did it once upon a time.
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Alright, we've now established you are completely off the rails or a troll account.
 
detectiveconan16 said:
Okay, I'll take it back. Considering how the same people who are always thumping their chest for the second amendment always love to talk more than trash about the government in the same breath. And those examples above.
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This is why liberals can't be taken seriously and why compromise just means "giving the liberals what they want".
 
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