Jump to content


- - - - -

The 2014-15 Barclays Premier League (EPL) & UEFA Champions League (UCL) Thread

Premier League EPL UCL UEFA Champions League League Soccer Football

#31 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 18 August 2014 - 06:27 PM

Is there a specific reason that those generally considered the absolute best (Messi, Ronaldo, Zlatan) all play outside of the EPL?  Do other leagues have the ability to pay more?  

 

Looking over this list, the names Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich seem to be flush with star power.  Are the Spanish and German leagues even competitive?

Money, though that's not the whole story. Most European leagues fluctuate in power and noteriety but basically the teams you referenced above are some of the best in the world. Bayern is probably the most well run and financially balanced team in the world. It also helps that they are the wealthiest team in Germany by a country mile which allows them to poach the best players in the Bundesliga. Real has they own transfer market startegy built around signing stars. Here's a pretty good wikipedia entry that explains Madrid's Glacticos. Barcelona has an incredible academy that only Ajax might rival in Europe. They produce many great players and play a brand of football that most players in Europe want to die to be part of. Also, over the last decade we have witnessed their golden generation.

 

However, all of this doesn't explain the lack of top players in the EPL. IMO part of the reason why you don't see the best players in world playing in the EPL has a great deal to do with how slow they were to accept top foreign players. During its first few years of existence, the EPL was virtually devoid of the top foreign players sans Cantona and Schmeichel. At that point Serie A and La Liga were dominant. Even today when you hear announcers discuss players on the pitch there is an inherent bias towards English players. Things started to change with the arrival of Bergkamp at Arsenal. Arsenal is almost single handely responsible for the influx of foreign players. They played a more open attacking style of football that relied less on physicality and more on finess, skill and pace. Plus, it wasn't that long ago that Henry and Ronaldo called the EPL home.



#32 bestkeeper14   Currently Playing Madden 16 CAGiversary!   4149 Posts   Joined 9.7 Years Ago  

bestkeeper14

Posted 18 August 2014 - 06:29 PM

So salary caps don't really exist in most of these Euro leagues?

NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!  No salary caps what so ever in soccer... the key to making it big is developing a player and then selling them off to finance the team and improving the team.  It is the reason that so many of the big clubs stay a big club, they started out developing players, and then sold them to make a profit.  The MLS is finally starting to see this and it's why it is starting to succeed, teams are making 4-6 million on transfers to European clubs and then are able to make a profit.



#33 bestkeeper14   Currently Playing Madden 16 CAGiversary!   4149 Posts   Joined 9.7 Years Ago  

bestkeeper14

Posted 18 August 2014 - 06:31 PM

Money, though that's not the whole story. Most European leagues fluctuate in power and noteriety but basically the teams you referenced above are some of the best in the world. Bayern is probably the most well run and financially balanced team in the world. It also helps that they are the wealthiest team in Germany by a country mile which allows them to poach the best players in the Bundesliga. Real has they own transfer market startegy built around signing stars. Here's a pretty good wikipedia entry that explains Madrid's Glacticos. Barcelona has an incredible academy that only Ajax might rival in Europe. They produce many great players and play a brand of football that most players in Europe want to die to be part of. Also, over the last decade we have witnessed their golden generation.

 

However, all of this doesn't explain the lack of top players in the EPL. IMO part of the reason why you don't see the best players in world playing in the EPL has a great deal to do with how slow they were to accept top foreign players. During its first 5 years of existence, the EPL was virtually devoid of the top foreign players sans Cantona and Schmeichel. At that point Serie A and La Liga were dominant. Even today when you hear announcers discuss players on the pitch there is an inherent bias towards English players. Things started to change with the arrival of Bergkamp at Arsenal. Arsenal is almost single handely responsible for the influx of foreign players. They played a more open attacking style of football that relied less on physicality and more on finess, skill and pace. It wasn't that long ago that Henry and Ronaldo called the EPL home.

Completely agree and you put it better than I did.  There is just a flair when it comes to the likes of Real, Barca, and Bayern.  Sure you get that with ManU, but unless something changes ManU is on a downward slide.  



#34 tylerh1701   Post deals, not your blog. CAGiversary!   30637 Posts   Joined 8.0 Years Ago  

Posted 18 August 2014 - 06:56 PM

Very interesting, both about the nationalism in England and the type of play in the EPL vs. other leagues, which I didn't realize.

 

Sounds like scouting talent at a very young age is probably super important too, then?  Much more so than in American professional sports because of the drafts we have implemented here.

 

EDIT: To follow up on the player development section, so a team like AS Monaco did a real good job finding and building James Rodriguez, right?  They'll hopefully see some positive results from the Real Madrid transfer?



#35 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 18 August 2014 - 07:16 PM

Very interesting, both about the nationalism in England and the type of play in the EPL vs. other leagues, which I didn't realize.

 

Sounds like scouting talent at a very young age is probably super important too, then?  Much more so than in American professional sports because of the drafts we have implemented here.

Yes and no.

 

Like all forms of business today there are many different ways of accomplishing this. You can let another organization do the scouting and training and you buy a finished product at a higher price. This is fairly commonplace in the "lesser" leagues which are basically feeder clubs. Ajax is one such team. They do a great job producing young talent which they than sell to the highest bidder. The same thing applies to most small teams in Italy, Germany, Spain and England. For example, Wayne Rooney was a product of Everton prior to being purchased by ManU.

 

Alternatively, you have big teams who spend a lot of money on young talent but they can't guarantee them playing time which hurts their development. It's difficult to expect and 18 or 19 year old to unseat a professional in his prime. Thankfully this practice has been curtailed somewhat as teams were wasting a lot of money on talent/prospects that either never panned out or stalled their development.

 

Ultimately, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. A team has to decide how to best use its resources. Ideally you want a strong core of homegrown players that can be supplemented by adding a few big name stars. I think this is a winnig formula in any sport or league. It is basically what the Yankees did in the mid 90s. 

 

P.S. It is worth noting that every EPL team has a youth team/academy where they develop young talent. It is considered very prestigious to join one of these academies.

 

EDIT: Monaco paid a hefty sum (45 million Euro) to buy James from Porto but ultimately ended up making good money on him.  Also, Monaco is a very wealthy team but with little to no tradition.



#36 tylerh1701   Post deals, not your blog. CAGiversary!   30637 Posts   Joined 8.0 Years Ago  

Posted 18 August 2014 - 10:26 PM

So soccer really is a business over there?  Players definitely sound like they're treated as assets.



#37 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 18 August 2014 - 11:14 PM

So soccer really is a business over there? Players definitely sound like they're treated as assets.


Yep, don't get me wrong there are plenty of owners who throw money around like it is going out of style but the vast majority of teams are run like a business. Relegation is also a major contributing factor. Over the years I've learned to appreciate this part of the game more and more.

Though strictly speaking as a fan you want a filthy rich owner who doesn't give a shit about money and only wants to show up fellow billionaires.

#38 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:03 PM

Congrats Liverpool! He's your problem now.

 

1408617251303_Image_galleryImage_NEW_YOR



#39 bestkeeper14   Currently Playing Madden 16 CAGiversary!   4149 Posts   Joined 9.7 Years Ago  

bestkeeper14

Posted 21 August 2014 - 05:43 PM

yea, smaller clubs are really in it for the money, and they do that by selling players to the big clubs.

 

A team like Manchester city was bad until what, 5 years ago?  Some oil tycoon bought the team and has just been throwing money at everyone.

 

I love the relegation rules, doesn't allow a let's lose to get a better play that you get from some of the american sports.



#40 EvilIA   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1200 Posts   Joined 12.6 Years Ago  

Posted 21 August 2014 - 09:55 PM

So does anybody have good tips on how to watch EPL matches for those of us who are dirty poors?

 

NBC seems to have one Saturday match on a broadcast channel, the reset are on some cable only channel.



#41 bestkeeper14   Currently Playing Madden 16 CAGiversary!   4149 Posts   Joined 9.7 Years Ago  

bestkeeper14

Posted 21 August 2014 - 10:01 PM

So does anybody have good tips on how to watch EPL matches for those of us who are dirty poors?

 

NBC seems to have one Saturday match on a broadcast channel, the reset are on some cable only channel.

without illegal means that you can just search for, no.  For us cable people we get every single match thanks to NBC!  =P~



#42 tylerh1701   Post deals, not your blog. CAGiversary!   30637 Posts   Joined 8.0 Years Ago  

Posted 21 August 2014 - 10:28 PM

I used the online app in the OP and it worked for me last weekend.  Maybe the 1st weekend was free.  I don't have cable or anything, it didn't even make me log in.  I was just hoping it was always free.



#43 EvilIA   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1200 Posts   Joined 12.6 Years Ago  

Posted 22 August 2014 - 02:33 PM

I used the online app in the OP and it worked for me last weekend.  Maybe the 1st weekend was free.  I don't have cable or anything, it didn't even make me log in.  I was just hoping it was always free.

Thanks. I'll give it a shot. I tried the NBC extra once. It worked for some things, but then asked me to login. It didn't work for my Directv account, nor my parents TIme Warner account.

 

Living in the country has advantages, cable isn't one of them.

 

 

without illegal means that you can just search for, no.  For us cable people we get every single match thanks to NBC!   =P~

 

I'm willing to pay. I'm miffed at cable/Satellite. They force me to pay for 100 channels I don't want to get one I do want. I'll stop and get off my soapbox. But ala carte should be available.



#44 bestkeeper14   Currently Playing Madden 16 CAGiversary!   4149 Posts   Joined 9.7 Years Ago  

bestkeeper14

Posted 22 August 2014 - 03:12 PM

Thanks. I'll give it a shot. I tried the NBC extra once. It worked for some things, but then asked me to login. It didn't work for my Directv account, nor my parents TIme Warner account.

 

Living in the country has advantages, cable isn't one of them.

 

 
 

I'm willing to pay. I'm miffed at cable/Satellite. They force me to pay for 100 channels I don't want to get one I do want. I'll stop and get off my soapbox. But ala carte should be available.

Directv only had NBC on its three highest tiers which might be why it didn't work, I had to go for the Extra package for NBC sports solely for premier league and NHL.

 

Oh and everyone agrees on the ala carte idea... but will never happen with the monopoly that the main companies hold.  The first one that can do ALA carte will probably put all the others out of business!



#45 Bathory   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   524 Posts   Joined 12.8 Years Ago  

Posted 22 August 2014 - 08:30 PM

Second leg of the Spanish Super Cup, Atletico Madrid vs Real Madrid will start any minute now. 1st leg was a 1-1 draw. You can catch the game on ESPN3.com in english and in spanish on ESPN Deportes.



#46 kilik64   Carefree, Wherever We May Be CAGiversary!   7597 Posts   Joined 9.1 Years Ago  

Posted 23 August 2014 - 12:46 AM

Well thanks to my timely ban you missed all my posts about CFC.

 

Basically the rest of the league is fucked if that 20 minute stretch is any indication of CFC this season.

 

Fabregas is shaping up to be a fucking STEAL. He looked AMAZING. Only thing he didnt do is score.

 

Should have went for way more than we paid for him.

 

Diego Costa looked really good as well. Defense was a little sloppy which was odd as that was the main 4 who played all last season, but cesc doesnt really defend so lineup is more like a 4 1 4 1 really, but with firepower we have now, no real reason to be as defensive as last year.

 

Treble here we come....



#47 kilik64   Carefree, Wherever We May Be CAGiversary!   7597 Posts   Joined 9.1 Years Ago  

Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:02 AM

Nobody watched any of the matches today?

 

CFC played like crap in the first half, but came out swinging at the start of the second and finally got a goal from Costa. Gonna lead the league in goals at this rate.

 

Courtois showed why he is the best keeper in the world, made a couple of huge saves.

 

Oscar looked liked shit in the first half, not sure he deserves to start.

 

Huge draw from the everton/arsenal game. Great match.



#48 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 24 August 2014 - 04:19 AM

Nobody watched any of the matches today?

CFC played like crap in the first half, but came out swinging at the start of the second and finally got a goal from Costa. Gonna lead the league in goals at this rate.

Courtois showed why he is the best keeper in the world, made a couple of huge saves.

Oscar looked liked shit in the first half, not sure he deserves to start.

Huge draw from the everton/arsenal game. Great match.

Only caught part of the Chelsea match. Great talent and depth but the team looked completely unmotivated. If Jose doesn't sort that shit out it will come back and bite you in a big game.

#49 equistina  

Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:49 AM

Real Madrid wants to buy Negredo ;-;

I might be a Real Madrid fan soon :(

#50 kilik64   Carefree, Wherever We May Be CAGiversary!   7597 Posts   Joined 9.1 Years Ago  

Posted 24 August 2014 - 02:25 PM

Only caught part of the Chelsea match. Great talent and depth but the team looked completely unmotivated. If Jose doesn't sort that shit out it will come back and bite you in a big game.

I think the word you are looking for is lazy, at least according to Mou.

 

You must have missed the second half, they played a LOT better. But yea they show up like that against a better side, would not be a good outcome in the end I think.

 

Tottenham took it to QPR, top of the table for them.



#51 kilik64   Carefree, Wherever We May Be CAGiversary!   7597 Posts   Joined 9.1 Years Ago  

Posted 24 August 2014 - 05:48 PM

http://www.espnfc.co...-iain-macintosh

 

Little early for doom and gloom, but not looking good at all for Man U



#52 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 24 August 2014 - 10:52 PM

http://www.espnfc.co...-iain-macintosh

 

Little early for doom and gloom, but not looking good at all for Man U

Di Maria might be many things but he is not a number 10.

 

The problem with signing Di Maria is that LVG will use him in a 4-3-3 formation which means that Rooney will have to play out wide. Unfortunately, over the years Rooney has proven he cannot play out wide. Woodie better do some more shopping before the deadline. He needs to find an experienced CB and a CM. A tall task considering many other teams are also looking for such players.  I think we'll end up with some combination of De Jong, Blind and maybe Vlaar. Then we'll try to sign Strootman in January.

 

I wish we had used the Fellaini and Mata/Herrera money to sign Vidal.  



#53 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 25 August 2014 - 09:30 PM

City and Chelsea are on a completely different level. Everyone else is playing for 3rd place.

untitled-506kem.gif

untitled-6wwpn6.gif



#54 hpbbes   I typo'd my username CAGiversary!   1267 Posts   Joined 13.6 Years Ago  

Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:16 AM

Until about 30 minutes ago, I had no cable and internet service since Saturday so I missed the United game yesterday. Good thing too. My friends at work (non-United fans) all said it was pretty awful.

#55 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 26 August 2014 - 01:37 PM



#56 hpbbes   I typo'd my username CAGiversary!   1267 Posts   Joined 13.6 Years Ago  

Posted 26 August 2014 - 05:28 PM

I'm super excited about him coming to Old Trafford, albeit for a bit more than I'd have hoped. But without some clinical finishing up front and in the midfield, it's going to be a waste. I'm optimistic but a formation change has to happen. Unless they deploy him in the middle which I guess Real did for parts of last season.

I hate those Chevy jerseys, but a Di Maria one may be making its way into my closet.

#57 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 26 August 2014 - 07:09 PM

I'm super excited about him coming to Old Trafford, albeit for a bit more than I'd have hoped. But without some clinical finishing up front and in the midfield, it's going to be a waste. I'm optimistic but a formation change has to happen. Unless they deploy him in the middle which I guess Real did for parts of last season.

I hate those Chevy jerseys, but a Di Maria one may be making its way into my closet.

If we don't get a new CM is all for nothing. The dream scenario is that we sign Vidal but I would settle for De Jong or Blind at this point if we plan to get Strootman in January. We also need an experienced world class CB but I don't think there are any of them left on the market.  LVG is known to play 4-3-3. So here's what it might look like.

 

1084360_Manchester_United.jpg



#58 kilik64   Carefree, Wherever We May Be CAGiversary!   7597 Posts   Joined 9.1 Years Ago  

Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:54 PM

http://www.espnfc.co...0/gamecast.html

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

I cant even...what????



#59 kill3r7   MiNd ThE GaP CAGiversary!   4639 Posts   Joined 14.7 Years Ago  

Posted 26 August 2014 - 08:59 PM

http://www.espnfc.co...0/gamecast.html

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

 

I cant even...what????

I would like to say it was mostly the kids but they were just awful. I think that's the end of 3-5-2.



#60 kilik64   Carefree, Wherever We May Be CAGiversary!   7597 Posts   Joined 9.1 Years Ago  

Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:18 PM

I would like to say it was mostly the kids but they were just awful. I think that's the end of 3-5-2.

I sure hope not...