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#6061 camperinabush   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   1287 Posts   Joined 7.2 Years Ago  

camperinabush

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:06 PM

Not sure how you are equating this, Microsoft didn't come out the gate with that feature or Game Pass. Sony came out with the better price, message and PS+ service and we all know how the Xbox One launched. If you think this new generation is going to play out the same, I implore you to research how the 5th generation went when Microsoft was competent.

Microsoft looks to have the better product, services, features and will at the very least match price if not beat them. Things are going to be very different this time.


Especially with Phil Spencer leading instead of Don. I think Sony will still have an edge with gamers for awhile while Microsoft works to restore consumer confidence.

#6062 simmias   Likely to be eaten by a grue CAGiversary!   4748 Posts   Joined 11.7 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:07 PM

Not sure how you are equating this, Microsoft didn't come out the gate with that feature or Game Pass.  Sony came out with the better price, message and PS+ service and we all know how the Xbox One launched.  If you think this new generation is going to play out the same, I implore you to research how the 5th generation went when Microsoft was competent. 

My point is that normal people don't care about PS1-3 BC. It doesn't move the needle. Like, at all. We only care about it here because we're weird. Actually, we probably don't even really care about it here, even though we say we do.

 

And the funny thing about the 360 generation (wasn't the fifth generation the PS1 gen? I think you meant seventh) was that Sony really started coming on strong once they dropped their PS2 BC. You don't think they learned lessons from that?



#6063 Kain   Dragoon CAGiversary!   1211 Posts   Joined 16.1 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:13 PM

My point is that normal people don't care about PS1-3 BC. It doesn't move the needle. Like, at all. We only care about it here because we're weird. Actually, we probably don't even really care about it here, even though we say we do.

 

And the funny thing about that fifth generation was that Sony really started coming on strong once they dropped their PS2 BC. You don't think they learned lessons from that?

I would say that a good percentage of people care about BC and that the ones that don't are weird.  I have hundreds of PS3 and PS2 games (each) that I would like to play, some for the very first time.  I would love more than anything to have just one system hooked up that will play everything. Considering the sales of retro consoles such as the NES/SNES Minis, the Genesis and TG16 minis, etc. along with all these retro game collections, Arcade Archives, etc. I would say people do still want to play the old games. Besides, think about it, when the PS5 comes out, are you going to toss all your PS4 games that you're playing now and be like, "These sucks, I will only play PS5 games from now!"?



#6064 simmias   Likely to be eaten by a grue CAGiversary!   4748 Posts   Joined 11.7 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:19 PM

I would say that a good percentage of people care about BC and that the ones that don't are weird.  I have hundreds of PS3 and PS2 games (each) that I would like to play, some for the very first time.  I would love more than anything to have just one system hooked up that will play everything. Considering the sales of retro consoles such as the NES/SNES Minis, the Genesis and TG16 minis, etc. along with all these retro game collections, Arcade Archives, etc. I would say people do still want to play the old games. Besides, think about it, when the PS5 comes out, are you going to toss all your PS4 games that you're playing now and be like, "These sucks, I will only play PS5 games from now!"?

No, people care about PS4 games, especially the GAAS games, which is why they're going to be BC. The vast audience for this stuff has moved on from PS2 and PS3 games. And don't mistake nostalgia for actual desire to play these old games. There's a reason why it's easy to find all the mini consoles these days.



#6065 RiPPn  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:19 PM

My point is that normal people don't care about PS1-3 BC. It doesn't move the needle. Like, at all. We only care about it here because we're weird. Actually, we probably don't even really care about it here, even though we say we do.

 

And the funny thing about the 360 generation (wasn't the fifth generation the PS1 gen? I think you meant seventh) was that Sony really started coming on strong once they dropped their PS2 BC. You don't think they learned lessons from that?

I can only speak for myself and how what Microsoft is doing has moved me.  Their efforts have moved me from barely turning on my Xbox One to now I primarily game on it, I was hardcore in Sony's camp since about 2010 when Microsoft started dropping the ball, and I'm just not feeling it anymore.  I went from buying everything but exclusives on PlayStation to now doing the opposite because I know they will always work on future Xbox systems  It is so cool looking at the library on the Xbox console and seeing all your 360 purchases sitting there ready to go. I'm actually excited to get a Series X at launch where I no longer know if I'm going to jump in on the PS5 right away, though I probably will since I buy all consoles regardless, even bought an Xbox One at launch.  But my PS5 is going to be an exclusives machine unless a multi platform game takes advantage of that Sony SSD or if Sony figures out how to make PS Now equivalent to Game Pass and can get a reward program as generous as what Microsoft offers.



#6066 whitereflection   Shake well before serving CAGiversary!   5698 Posts   Joined 16.7 Years Ago  

whitereflection

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:21 PM

I would say that a good percentage of people care about BC and that the ones that don't are weird.  I have hundreds of PS3 and PS2 games (each) that I would like to play, some for the very first time.  I would love more than anything to have just one system hooked up that will play everything. Considering the sales of retro consoles such as the NES/SNES Minis, the Genesis and TG16 minis, etc. along with all these retro game collections, Arcade Archives, etc. I would say people do still want to play the old games. Besides, think about it, when the PS5 comes out, are you going to toss all your PS4 games that you're playing now and be like, "These sucks, I will only play PS5 games from now!"?

Your second half contradicts the first half. Those retro systems like NES Mini are new products that people don't mind rebuying when they feel nostalgic for old games because they come with a bundle of games in a neat, convenient package. No one wants to dig out old cartridges and discs in dubious condition and struggle to get them working on modern hardware. You have hundreds of old games you'd want to play that you'll likely not get around to most of them since new games come out everyday, and even many of your old ones will be remastered or repackaged to work better on modern systems.

#6067 Moofboy   CAG in Training CAGiversary!   498 Posts   Joined 8.0 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:38 PM

Yup, it's definitely hurt them this gen. Instead of outselling their competitor 2.5:1, they could have outsold them 2.501:1.

Exaggeration aside, I think they could have sold more if they had implemented BC to compete with (or bury) Microsoft.

#6068 Kain   Dragoon CAGiversary!   1211 Posts   Joined 16.1 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:45 PM

Your second half contradicts the first half. Those retro systems like NES Mini are new products that people don't mind rebuying when they feel nostalgic for old games because they come with a bundle of games in a neat, convenient package. No one wants to dig out old cartridges and discs in dubious condition and struggle to get them working on modern hardware. You have hundreds of old games you'd want to play that you'll likely not get around to most of them since new games come out everyday, and even many of your old ones will be remastered or repackaged to work better on modern systems.

I don't see the contradiction at all.  The entire post was saying that people don't stop caring about games because they're old.  Now, I can only speak for myself on this part, but I have an entire shelf full of PS3 and PS4 games (and boxes of PS2 games in my closet.)  I spent good money on them, and they are all in pristine condition, and I would like to be able to play them.  Unfortunately, I can't play my PS2 games due to the fact that my launch PS3 with BC dying last year, and hooking up my composite PS2 to an HDMI 4k TV is pretty much impossible, but if I could pop a PS2 game into a PS5 and play them with upres'd graphics, there are whole lot I own that I would like to be able to play.  And we're talking about a console here, not a PC, there shouldn't be any struggle to get them to work on modern hardware (either they do, or they don't.)

 

Now, I will admit that I do tend to play more current gen titles than previous gen titles, because like you said, there are new ones coming out every day.  This causes the older ones to fall by the wayside, of course.  But if you haven't played them yet, they're new to you, even if they were bought a decade or so ago.



#6069 WNYX585AM   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3681 Posts   Joined 8.4 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:56 PM

This discussion about backwards compatibility is missing a principle of sales.  People want to feel good about the product they're buying.  It's not always the actual product but the intangibles behind it.  I'd bet a lot of those old men driving Corvettes don't drag race.  But they like the feeling that they can.

 

People may or may not actually care about backwards compatibility, but a lot of people sure like the idea of having it.  It makes them feel like their purchase is a lot more valuable.  Or it makes them feel like the product they chose is made by a company that delivers value to the customer.



#6070 RiPPn  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 03:59 PM

I think if everyone is honest with themselves they know they would like to have backward compatibility, you never prefer less features unless there is an increased cost in getting said feature.  I believe people have talked themselves out of caring about the feature because it is a glaring omission from Sony's products.



#6071 TctclMvPhase   Dismal Scientist CAGiversary!   1996 Posts   Joined 12.6 Years Ago  

TctclMvPhase

Posted 10 July 2020 - 04:30 PM

 hooking up my composite PS2 to an HDMI 4k TV is pretty much impossible

This is actually really easy and can be inexpensive to fix. PS2 had component cable options, which two of the three 4K sets I have owned still had. If you don't have that, there are okay adapters for ~$30 and really nice ones thats will upscale just about any source for $60+. If you really enjoy playing your older consoles, the small investment in a nice upscaler can future proof your entire collection.
 



#6072 elitewillie   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2993 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

elitewillie

Posted 10 July 2020 - 04:34 PM

I think if everyone is honest with themselves they know they would like to have backward compatibility, you never prefer less features unless there is an increased cost in getting said feature. I believe people have talked themselves out of caring about the feature because it is a glaring omission from Sony's products.

Or maybe because some people don't even have time to play current gen games. Why would they want old games? I honestly don't care about the feature but wouldn't be mad if it was available. More options and features are always better.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

#6073 SpraykwoN   the Chef CAGiversary!   3602 Posts   Joined 6.6 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 05:51 PM

WTB a fucking Flash Sale with good shit



#6074 pbfluff   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   825 Posts   Joined 12.0 Years Ago  

Posted 10 July 2020 - 11:43 PM

i would prefer backwards compatibility personally, but for me console exclusives games and new ip are what i get excited about

i don’t have an xbox1 yet because the exclusives just aren’t plentiful or original enough (neither the non-bungie halo sequels nor the non-epic gears of war sequels are exciting to me)

i hope phil buying all those studios results in new AAA single player IP exclusives that i’m interested in...im good on games as a service, battle royale, or any micro transaction laden gambling simulation disguised as sports.

#6075 Pr0f1t   Trophywhorus Rex CAGiversary!   277 Posts   Joined 8.9 Years Ago  

Posted 11 July 2020 - 01:06 AM

I still have games in the shrink wrap for PS1/2/3/4.  I live for backwards compatibility.  I will retire someday.  My backlog is generational.



#6076 elitewillie   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2993 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

elitewillie

Posted 11 July 2020 - 01:38 AM

I still have games in the shrink wrap for PS1/2/3/4. I live for backwards compatibility. I will retire someday. My backlog is generational.

When I retire I want to spend time with my family and travelling. Not sitting in front of TV playing games. To each their own though.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

#6077 The Masked Heel  

The Masked Heel

Posted 11 July 2020 - 01:40 AM

When I retire I want to spend time with my family and travelling. Not sitting in front of TV playing games. To each their own though.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

1. Spend time with family? People do that?

 

2. That's why they have those portable game setups. Duuuh.



#6078 elitewillie   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2993 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

elitewillie

Posted 11 July 2020 - 01:43 AM

1. Spend time with family? People do that?

2. That's why they have those portable game setups. Duuuh.

I mean really spend time with them. Paying attention to them. Can't do that with a handheld.

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#6079 ProfessorStotch   Banned CAGiversary!   13747 Posts   Joined 12.7 Years Ago  

ProfessorStotch

Posted 11 July 2020 - 03:02 AM

I don't think that guy is the real IGN.

#6080 Moofboy   CAG in Training CAGiversary!   498 Posts   Joined 8.0 Years Ago  

Posted 11 July 2020 - 03:34 AM

I mean really spend time with them. Paying attention to them. Can't do that with a handheld.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

You don’t have to retire to do that...

#6081 bee01   CAG Veteran CAGiversary!   716 Posts   Joined 15.9 Years Ago  

Posted 11 July 2020 - 03:44 AM

I still have games in the shrink wrap for PS1/2/3/4.  I live for backwards compatibility.  I will retire someday.  My backlog is generational.

I've decided to just start selling my new 'old' games since I can't justify opening them now with the way prices are.  If I want to play them in the future, I'll just find another way to do so.

 

My copy of 'Rule of Rose' with the Best buy clearance sticker on it should help pay for my PS5.



#6082 shadowysea07   Cjenvy I'm ready for you awd this time I'm wearing pants CAGiversary!   5430 Posts   Joined 7.2 Years Ago  

shadowysea07

Posted 11 July 2020 - 04:15 AM

I mean really spend time with them. Paying attention to them. Can't do that with a handheld.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

There are games that you can play with others.  People have been doing so for generations now. 

Both of you can't seem to find the middle ground which is very obvious. 



#6083 the_ENEMY_   Undead CAGiversary!   1268 Posts   Joined 10.2 Years Ago  

the_ENEMY_

Posted 11 July 2020 - 05:43 AM

Did people forget that some PS3 models played ps2 games? And a few even played PS1 and PS2 games...

 

And can I just say that there are more collectibles in this damn tomb raider than there are funko pops in existence (id imagine) which is scary, and tedious.



#6084 BobbyTastic   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   9074 Posts   Joined 9.5 Years Ago  

BobbyTastic

Posted 11 July 2020 - 06:42 AM

I think BC helps in the sense that those already invested in a brand's "ecosystem" are more likely to stick with that brand. Kind of a twist on the sunk-cost fallacy thing.
If Xbone had launched with BC and the PS4 didn't, you bet your ass that it'd have hurt Sony. The problem is the BC thing only came years later (for a select number of titles over time) when people were already invested into the PS4 or Xbone as separate products. Additionally, BC for Xbone at launch would have given them a significant library advantage over PS4, even if people didn't already own any of the BC games.

I do think it has noticeably helped the Xbone, but I agree that it probably hasn't hurt the PS4 all that much at this point.
PS5 definitely cannot afford to Fuck up on the BC front though, given the Series X's focus on full Xbone BC at launch and people now expecting BC due to the move to less unique hardware/a more PCesque approach.

#6085 elitewillie   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2993 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

elitewillie

Posted 11 July 2020 - 09:51 AM

You don’t have to retire to do that...

obviously

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#6086 elitewillie   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   2993 Posts   Joined 13.8 Years Ago  

elitewillie

Posted 11 July 2020 - 09:53 AM

There are games that you can play with others. People have been doing so for generations now.
Both of you can't seem to find the middle ground which is very obvious.

Never said you couldn't. This too is obvious. I spend most of my gaming time now playing with my kids. Minecraft Dungeons is a blast with kids btw.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

#6087 AoA   Ace of Aces CAGiversary!   1751 Posts   Joined 13.1 Years Ago  

Posted 11 July 2020 - 12:05 PM

I still have games in the shrink wrap for PS1/2/3/4.  I live for backwards compatibility.  I will retire someday.  My backlog is generational.

A man after my own heart.  Someday I'll get to play.



#6088 SlaughterX   Teh Killer CAGiversary!   1403 Posts   Joined 14.8 Years Ago  

Posted 11 July 2020 - 12:11 PM

Bought Bloodborne Complete for $17.fiddy

#6089 simmias   Likely to be eaten by a grue CAGiversary!   4748 Posts   Joined 11.7 Years Ago  

Posted 11 July 2020 - 12:28 PM

A man after my own heart.  Someday I'll get to play.

It's got to be like clothing, though, right? If you haven't worn the damn thing in five years, you're probably never going to wear it.



#6090 ProfessorStotch   Banned CAGiversary!   13747 Posts   Joined 12.7 Years Ago  

ProfessorStotch

Posted 11 July 2020 - 12:39 PM

It's got to be like clothing, though, right? If you haven't worn the damn thing in five years, you're probably never going to wear it.


But I paid $5 for that shirt 7 years ago when it was on clearance. I'm going to wear it any day now. I just need my next gen body to be backwards compatible with my body from 7 years ago.