Before i am reamed for my grammer or any other multiple things let me put before you CAGs a issue. I have been reading the forums and no matter what flipping always gets brought up into it and thier is a gaint debate on the morals of it. i propose that we keep any and all of these arguments out of the forums and respond to them here. I think of flipping as the buying of a game with only the intent to trade it in and trading it in to the same place it was bought. Do i think this wrong? NO, although not morrally sound thier is nothing wrong with it. People who believe it is wrong go upon very little evidence to prove that it is. After all what is wrong with just buying a game and trading it in, everyone has done that, some to even the same place. The period it is owned for is what decides if it flipping or not. Now lets have a good clean argument and let the tearing apart of this statement and people begin.
#5
CAGiversary!
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:27 PM
Of course!!! Not only is it wrong, it's illegal.
Uhhh.. it's illegal to buy something then sell it? What is this, Russia? If you're referring to the Wal-Mart scam, then yeah, that's illegal
I don't think there's anything wrong at all with buying something to turn around and trade it in. I've done it. But I always make sure to play within the law (I don't do the Wal-Mart scam), and I always leave at least one of whatever i'm getting for someone else. I don't hoard.
#9
TheLegend
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:34 PM
Depends. I bought .hack3 earlier this year from CC and PSP-Sp2 from KB, both for $10. Traded them to Rhino for a brand new game last week. Is this flipping? Technically, yes. But I don't consider that wrong.
I don't even neccessarily look down upon getting a deal for a game and trading it right away to somewhere else for more credit.
What I do look down upon severely is the Wal-mart scam, or buying 10 of a title to trade in and denying others the chance to play it.
I don't even neccessarily look down upon getting a deal for a game and trading it right away to somewhere else for more credit.
What I do look down upon severely is the Wal-mart scam, or buying 10 of a title to trade in and denying others the chance to play it.
#10
CAGiversary!
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:35 PM
Yes Scorch I was referring to Wal Mart scam, which is flipping. Buying it for $13 then trading it in for $50 in store credit.
Yes, but that's only part of the definition. I could buy a game for 50 cents at a yard sale and trade it in at a GameCrazy for $5 in store credit and it'd still be flipping. Now if I bought a game that EB had on sale for $9.99 then return it to Wal-Mart for $50 in store credit, yeah, that's illegal.
Depends. I bought .hack3 earlier this year from CC and PSP-Sp2 from KB, both for $10. Traded them to Rhino for a brand new game last week. Is this flipping? Technically, yes. But I don't consider that wrong.
Now see? That's legal and something I do ^^. I picked up Punisher for $10 and traded it in a 2 for 1 when Rhino was still giving $10+ in credit for it.
#12
CAGiversary!
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:36 PM
The flipping I was referring to was the Wal Mart scam, I have nothing against buying something and selling it somewhere else for a large profit, but the Wal Mart scam is most definitely illegal. Someone has posted proof before, but I don't know where to dig it up.
#13
fate is inexorable
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:37 PM
people wonder why stores give so little in credit, flipping is directly related to it. when gamestop and eb have to take in 1000 copies of ford truck racing, you can damn well bet they arent going to sell all of those, they have to make it up in other places. so when you trade in call of duty 2 for 20 bucks, you know why now.
#14
The Profit$ of Doom
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:42 PM
Flipping saves me money... And i love anything that makes/saves me money. It's not illegal you moron. It might violate some of the stores trade policies technically, but I always side with the PEOPLE over Corporate scum.
No, you side with yourself.
And that's fine if that's your thing, but don't pretend to pull this anti-authority anti-corporate down-with-the-establishment bullshit. You just want cheap video games, that's hardly "siding with the people." And that's what I want too - I just have no illusions about it.
Stop feeing so self-important. Everyone here is just a nerd with a hardon for cheap video games.
#15
Concerto in Cute Major
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:44 PM
Wal-Mart Scam? I wouldn't call it scam: other "normal" customers scam Wal-Mart a lot more than "flippers" do. Check the customer service office everyday at any Wal-Mart, you'll see ladies bringing back used bras, used underwear, used shoes, also, lots of bed/bath items or even make up. No one calls them out, even though they're not only 'scamming" Wal-Mart but creating lots of health hazards, especially with the lingerie and make up.
Considering the price that Wal-Mart pays for game through their vendors, the price they sell for worldwide, and what they do with returns, they're making as much as a profit as you are. If you buy a X-Men Legends II for $29.99, return it for $49.99, what really happens?
A. Wal-Mart shelves it, sells it, and makes profit without even having bought that unit.
B. Wal-Mart returns it as defective, receives a full credit for what they refunded you.
C. Wal-Mart sells it overseas or across the border, for a higher price: video games in Canada and Mexico are -much- more expensive, especially new releases.
D. Wal-Mart lost a little, but you did use the credit to buy from them, broke even, and maybe you bought some merchandise out of your own pocket while you were there.
The Blockbuster scam though? It's purely legal. They offer trade in credit for games. If a little boy or girl bought a copy of Finny The Fish or whatever those games used for the scam were, and then by accident her uncle got her one, and she took it in to Blockbuster with her mom, and got $50 credit, it's not a scam: it's perfectly legal. What's the difference between an individual legally obtaining 20 copies of the said game, then going to Blockbuster and doing the same? Trade limit per day? If he honors that limit, each day he can do it again and again.
Unless you stole the games, and then flipped them to obtain something legally, it's not wrong. Theft is wrong, working around the system while still working WITH THE SYSTEM isn't.
These scams are pointless though, low price guarantee at Fry's, now that's a way to make some money. In the past month, I've price matched them on their OWN prices, gotten refunds based on competitor advertisment, qualified for mail in rebates out of time of purchase, etc. Look at the Fry's ad every time it comes out: Sunday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday. Look at the other ads. Track every item you purchase for 30 days. I promise you, you'll be breaking even, getting 50% off, or getting it free after enough work.
Considering the price that Wal-Mart pays for game through their vendors, the price they sell for worldwide, and what they do with returns, they're making as much as a profit as you are. If you buy a X-Men Legends II for $29.99, return it for $49.99, what really happens?
A. Wal-Mart shelves it, sells it, and makes profit without even having bought that unit.
B. Wal-Mart returns it as defective, receives a full credit for what they refunded you.
C. Wal-Mart sells it overseas or across the border, for a higher price: video games in Canada and Mexico are -much- more expensive, especially new releases.
D. Wal-Mart lost a little, but you did use the credit to buy from them, broke even, and maybe you bought some merchandise out of your own pocket while you were there.
The Blockbuster scam though? It's purely legal. They offer trade in credit for games. If a little boy or girl bought a copy of Finny The Fish or whatever those games used for the scam were, and then by accident her uncle got her one, and she took it in to Blockbuster with her mom, and got $50 credit, it's not a scam: it's perfectly legal. What's the difference between an individual legally obtaining 20 copies of the said game, then going to Blockbuster and doing the same? Trade limit per day? If he honors that limit, each day he can do it again and again.
Unless you stole the games, and then flipped them to obtain something legally, it's not wrong. Theft is wrong, working around the system while still working WITH THE SYSTEM isn't.
These scams are pointless though, low price guarantee at Fry's, now that's a way to make some money. In the past month, I've price matched them on their OWN prices, gotten refunds based on competitor advertisment, qualified for mail in rebates out of time of purchase, etc. Look at the Fry's ad every time it comes out: Sunday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday. Look at the other ads. Track every item you purchase for 30 days. I promise you, you'll be breaking even, getting 50% off, or getting it free after enough work.
#16
Concerto in Cute Major
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:45 PM
And I don't do it for video games, the less I can spend on video games, the more I can spend on fashion = D
clothesareagirlsbestfriend.
I like video games too though.
If you like being the CA part of CAG though, getting clothes discounted is incredible fun. $25 off $40 coupons at Fashion Bug, 75% off Torrid, and Dillard's clearances. Four pairs of jeans for the price of one, yayies! And Ross is like a black friday sale for discontinued designer clothing every day of the week.
clothesareagirlsbestfriend.
I like video games too though.
If you like being the CA part of CAG though, getting clothes discounted is incredible fun. $25 off $40 coupons at Fashion Bug, 75% off Torrid, and Dillard's clearances. Four pairs of jeans for the price of one, yayies! And Ross is like a black friday sale for discontinued designer clothing every day of the week.
#17
Guest_Apossum_*
Posted 26 November 2005 - 09:51 PM
it's just taking advantage of stores based what services they provide the customer. there is nothing wrong about legally buying something, then legally trading it in elsewhere for more money.
Stores take advantage of customers this way by having us trade stuff in for less than we paid, there's no reason why we can't turn the tables. Free market, biatches. Companies can change their prices and policies if they want, but if they don't, you're free to use it in any way you want. Some cry that it's not fair to the stores, well,
them-- if flipping games for more money isn't "fair" then buying wholesale and selling it for more money isn't "fair." I'm not about to submit to the system when I can legally thrive off of it.
that said, i do it occasionally, but most of the time it isn't worth it, since I don't have a gamerush or rhino or anything that gives good credit around me.
Stores take advantage of customers this way by having us trade stuff in for less than we paid, there's no reason why we can't turn the tables. Free market, biatches. Companies can change their prices and policies if they want, but if they don't, you're free to use it in any way you want. Some cry that it's not fair to the stores, well,
them-- if flipping games for more money isn't "fair" then buying wholesale and selling it for more money isn't "fair." I'm not about to submit to the system when I can legally thrive off of it. that said, i do it occasionally, but most of the time it isn't worth it, since I don't have a gamerush or rhino or anything that gives good credit around me.
#18
CAG Veteran
Posted 26 November 2005 - 10:14 PM
I am surprised by the response so far because whenever this debate it brought up you see alot more people speaking out right against flipping but the fact is thier is nothing wrong with it and i lay down a personal chellenge for some one to prove other wise
#19
TheLegend
Posted 26 November 2005 - 11:44 PM
A. Wal-Mart shelves it, sells it, and makes profit without even having bought that unit.
B. Wal-Mart returns it as defective, receives a full credit for what they refunded you.
That's not correct. If it was unopened (which it has to be to get a refund) then they aren't returning it. They are selling it.
You may think they are making a profit, but they aren't. There isn't much margin in the video game industry. At best, they break even on that one transaction, perhaps make a buck. Really all they are doing is removing one game from inventory and replacing it with another. I call it a scam because it's unethical. May be not illegal, but sure as hell unethical.
#20
bundles are craptacular!
Posted 26 November 2005 - 11:57 PM
THE WALMART SCAM IS ILLEGAL IN CERTAIN STATES. But buying something for cheap and then selling it for a profit is definitely legal and legitimate. what do you think day traders do on the stock market? they buy stock for cheap in the morning and sell em when they go up in the afternoon. they make a living by "flipping". the same with big stores. they buy it cheap and sell to you for a profit. thats capitalism.
#21
Concerto in Cute Major
Posted 26 November 2005 - 11:57 PM
That's not correct. If it was unopened (which it has to be to get a refund) then they aren't returning it. They are selling it.
You may think they are making a profit, but they aren't. There isn't much margin in the video game industry. At best, they break even on that one transaction, perhaps make a buck. Really all they are doing is removing one game from inventory and replacing it with another. I call it a scam because it's unethical. May be not illegal, but sure as hell unethical.
What if you don't buy a game though? I buy a new release DVD, a small electronic, and some Gatorade, Dr.Pepper, and Orange Juice, a bottle of shampoo, a bottle of conditioner, etc. My friend's father runs a restaurant, he buys 12 packs of Dr.Pepper products for $1.05 each, gallons of orange juice [not concentrate] cost him $1.50. There's a dollar store nearby that buys thousands of units of Pantene Pro V, can sell them for a DOLLAR each, and make a huge profit. You think Wal-Mart doesn't know what they're doing? EB Games/Gamestop wouldn't be around if the profit on new video games wasn't good, they certainly couldn't afford to slash new copies and sell them as used if that wasn't true.
#22
Posted 27 November 2005 - 01:52 AM
Considering the price that Wal-Mart pays for game through their vendors, the price they sell for worldwide, and what they do with returns, they're making as much as a profit as you are. If you buy a X-Men Legends II for $29.99, return it for $49.99, what really happens?
A. Wal-Mart shelves it, sells it, and makes profit without even having bought that unit.
Where is this profit you speak of? They give you $50 for it and sell it for $50 (if they are lucky). Plus they have to take up shelf space and have a person put it back there. Definitely no profit there.
#23
C10Cl12
Posted 27 November 2005 - 02:08 AM
Where is this profit you speak of? They give you $50 for it and sell it for $50 (if they are lucky). Plus they have to take up shelf space and have a person put it back there. Definitely no profit there.
And don't forget if the next buyer uses a credit card they lose a few extra percent.
#26
TheLegend
Posted 27 November 2005 - 05:35 AM
You think Wal-Mart doesn't know what they're doing? EB Games/Gamestop wouldn't be around if the profit on new video games wasn't good, they certainly couldn't afford to slash new copies and sell them as used if that wasn't true.
How much are plane tickets to fantasyland these days?
EB/GS make their profit on used games. When I worked at Blockbuster, new games only had a profit of 10%, tops. Used games and DVDs, however, represented anywhere from 75%-88% gross profit.
I can't speak for anyone else, but when I return a game, it's for another game. Not haircare products or Little Debbies.
I've never seen them slash new games and sell them as used, either. They might very well do it, but if you are talking about the display copies, those still sell as new.
#28
Training for the silver
Posted 27 November 2005 - 06:38 AM
Where is this profit you speak of? They give you $50 for it and sell it for $50 (if they are lucky). Plus they have to take up shelf space and have a person put it back there. Definitely no profit there.
the profit comes from when the person uses that credit. Not everyone returns a game to buy a game. Walmart sells a lot more than games. Also by getting that customer in the store to use the credit, they will most likely also pick up other things and spend more money than the original 50 dollar credit. To the person asking if they give cash, they don't. It's all credit.
Flipping in itself is all unethical, not illegal. Returning to Walmart also is unethical, not illegal. With both, you work the system within the system; thus not breaking any laws. Also with both, a name is attach to all those transactions. With flipping, they could have a database with what has been traded in and deny you credit. I have heard in the past people having their blockbuster accounts froze. With Walmart, they ask for your license and allow 3 returns within a 6 month period (if I remember correctly). Walmart put that in place to stop from people making a living off returning and still allow customers to return something without a receipt.
#30
Sa Da Tay!
Posted 28 November 2005 - 11:24 AM
I have no problem with people flipping. I don't do it because it's too much of a hassle. I actually will trade in games if I happen to buy/own two copies of the game and finish it. If I make money off of it because I got it from CAG then that's great but I don't mean to do it intentionally.
