Jump to content


- - - - -

Is Flipping Wrong?


#61 JSweeney   ... CAGiversary!   11449 Posts   Joined 19.0 Years Ago  

JSweeney

Posted 01 January 2006 - 12:26 AM

I hate to revisit this thread, but i just got a copy of wrestlemania XXI at the TRU sale that I could flip at walmart for an east $45. My thoughts are this, both myself and walmart are profiting by this.

For example:

Walmart Me

$0 -$10 After purchasing the WWE game from TRU
-$45 +$35 After flipping the game to walmart
$0 STUFF After me using my walmart gift card
+$45 STUFF Walmart sells the WWE game to someone else

So, in the end, walmart gets $45, $30 of which is probably profit, and I have stuff that I want or need. So, it seems to be that walmart should encourage flipping, not discourage against it.


Stop trying to bullshit yourself.
If you're going to try to rip them off, at least have the stones to admit it.
The margin on videogames is nowhere near as huge as people assume it is... especially with the huge, huge profit centers that Walmart stocks that are almost pure profit.

#62 briansraregames   10 years gone CAGiversary!   1989 Posts   Joined 17.0 Years Ago  

briansraregames

Posted 01 January 2006 - 12:38 AM

I disagree, since i'm forced to buy other higher margin products at their store, whatever they get for that video game is ALL profit. They make the same either way. I compare it to what I do at my store, I acept all national retail store gift cards as cash on my merchandise. My profits are so high that I'll take a $100 gift card instead of cash, that's fine by me, i can use it or sell it. I still make money, it's just in a different medium.

#63 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.0 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 12:53 AM

i'm forced to buy other higher margin products at their store

Shut the Fuck up. You lie, and you do so badly.

Look, I like to kick cripples in their fucking ankles. I don't try to make myself feel better about it by asking other people about it ("Well, it doesn't hurt since their nervous system doesn't work"; "They weren't going to a dance competition anyway"; "I wanted to help them sit down"). You're probably going to be a twat about it and go flip the game, so shut the hell up and go be a twat already; don't come here looking for vindication. Go to church, blow a priest, and you'll find salvation there.

#64 3QGojo   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   815 Posts   Joined 17.6 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:51 AM

I'll buy games cheap at places and trade them in for more credit elsewhere because it really adds up after awhile so much so that I'll gain usually enough credit for a BRAND NEW $50 game for free once every 1-2months.

#65 3QGojo   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   815 Posts   Joined 17.6 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:54 AM

Oh you guys are talking about buying a game and taking it to Wally World without a receipt? Isn't that fraud?

#66 briansraregames   10 years gone CAGiversary!   1989 Posts   Joined 17.0 Years Ago  

briansraregames

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:07 AM

Look, I like to kick cripples in their fucking ankles. I don't try to make myself feel better about it by asking other people about it ("Well, it doesn't hurt since their nervous system doesn't work"; "They weren't going to a dance competition anyway"; "I wanted to help them sit down"). You're probably going to be a twat about it and go flip the game, so shut the hell up and go be a twat already; don't come here looking for vindication. Go to church, blow a priest, and you'll find salvation there.


So you're comparing the most powerful retail store in the world to a "cripple?" WTF are you smoking/drinking/snorting/shooting? You must be a stockholder. Oh, and by the way, I don't seek vindication, I've been doing this for years and have no problem with it, besides I'm a little too old for most priests anyway.

#67 TimPV3   I don't play games, I play GameStop CAGiversary!   3093 Posts   Joined 17.2 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:18 AM

I can't agree it's right, but sticking it to WalMart is alright in my book.

My only complaint is when you get a $10 game from TRU to return it/trade it in for profit, you Fuck the little guy over who wanted it, and force him to get it for a higher price. Sure, it's his fault for not getting there before you but it if you trade it in it adds to the EB/Gamestop/eBay machine.

#68 briansraregames   10 years gone CAGiversary!   1989 Posts   Joined 17.0 Years Ago  

briansraregames

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:30 AM

I can't agree it's right, but sticking it to WalMart is alright in my book.

My only complaint is when you get a $10 game from TRU to return it/trade it in for profit, you Fuck the little guy over who wanted it, and force him to get it for a higher price.


Good point.

#69 anonymouswhoami   CAG Hall of Fame CAGiversary!   475 Posts   Joined 18.5 Years Ago  

anonymouswhoami

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:50 AM

I hate to revisit this thread, but i just got a copy of wrestlemania XXI at the TRU sale that I could flip at walmart for an easy $45. My thoughts are this, both myself and walmart are profiting by this.

For example:

Walmart.................Me

....$0 .................. -$10................. After purchasing the WWE game from TRU
..-$45 .................+$35 .................After flipping the game to walmart
....$0 ...................STUFF............... After me using my walmart gift card
..+$45................ STUFF................ Walmart sells the WWE game to someone else

So, in the end, walmart gets $45, $30 of which is probably profit, and I have stuff that I want or need. So, it seems to be that walmart should encourage flipping, not discourage against it.


I think you're grossly overestimating profit margins. $30 profit from a $45 sale? I don't think so. At best, Walmart gets pennies on the dollar. Walmart gets rich on the volume of products it sells, not large profit margins. And how did Walmart go from -$45 to $0 after you used your giftcard? To do that, you would have had to buy enough items to generate $45 in profit for the store, which means you would have had to purchase at least several hundred dollars worth of items, which isn't likely. Plus, you're also assuming that Wal-mart can ship the unsold copy of Wrestlmania XX1 (the one it would have sold had you not "returned" a second copy) back to the distributor for the same price it paid. That doesn't happen either. If it did, we would never have clearance sales, like the $5 CC or recent TRU sales. If stores could ship poor selling items back to the distributors for full price, why would they lose their "shirts" by clearancing them for $5-10?

#70 briansraregames   10 years gone CAGiversary!   1989 Posts   Joined 17.0 Years Ago  

briansraregames

Posted 01 January 2006 - 04:09 AM

I think you grossly overestimating profit margins. $30 profit from a $45 sale? I don't think so. At best, Walmart gets pennies on the dollar. Walmart gets rich on the volume of products it sells, not large profit margins. And how did Walmart go from -$45 to $0 after you used your giftcard? To do that, you would have had to buy enough items to generate $45 in profit for the store, which means you would have had to purchase at least several hundred dollars worth of items, which isn't likely.


I'm no economist, that is painfully obvious. Since the card is same as cash in the store, substitute cash for the gift card and it makes sense to me. I'm not really accounting for cost in my calculations i guess. So you're probably right. They're probably making $15 or so on the deal and not $45, depending on how much they have into the items that I'd get with my card, which is the same that they'd be getting anyway. I guess that this all rests on their ability to resell the game that I bring in for the same amount that they give me. If that decreases, then i can see how they'd lose out.

#71 terribledeli   Zombiologist CAGiversary!   3099 Posts   Joined 18.7 Years Ago  

terribledeli

Posted 01 January 2006 - 04:21 AM

My favorite part about this entire thread is that the OP asks a question, perhaps seeking debate? No, they already voice their opinion in the title, obviously not wanting debate or discussion.

Hilarious.

But seriously, do whatever makes you happy. If scamming a huge company gives you a hard-on...go for it. If trying to change someone's opinion of an act you view as immoral does the same, go for it.

Have fun.

Oh yeah, +1.

#72 poe   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   87 Posts   Joined 18.6 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 04:34 AM

I hate to revisit this thread, but i just got a copy of wrestlemania XXI at the TRU sale that I could flip at walmart for an easy $45. My thoughts are this, both myself and walmart are profiting by this.

For example:

Walmart.................Me

....$0 .................. -$10................. After purchasing the WWE game from TRU
..-$45 .................+$35 .................After flipping the game to walmart
..-$45 ...................STUFF............... After me using my walmart gift card
....$0................ STUFF................ Walmart sells the WWE game to someone else


I fixed your math to account for the fact that Walmart is out the value of whatever you bought with that gift card (possibly less depending on product margins, but we'll say you bought another video game, for argument's sake). Also, the $0 total assumes Walmart can move a WWE game at $45 that was just clearanced for $10 somewhere else.

#73 MasterSun1   Already Guilty CAGiversary!   1650 Posts   Joined 18.6 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 05:02 AM

We should let Phoenix Wright handle this.

Seriously though, flipping (buying low, trading in high) may seem immoral (personal opinion), but it's no illegal.

Buying elsewhere and returning to Wal-Mart, most people are saying it's a scam, but if it is, why is the policy there and why do you ask to see your driver's license?

#74 urzishra14   Who are you? I'm Batman. CAGiversary!   2385 Posts   Joined 17.4 Years Ago  

urzishra14

Posted 01 January 2006 - 05:55 AM

And I don't do it for video games, the less I can spend on video games, the more I can spend on fashion = D

clothesareagirlsbestfriend.

I like video games too though.

If you like being the CA part of CAG though, getting clothes discounted is incredible fun. $25 off $40 coupons at Fashion Bug, 75% off Torrid, and Dillard's clearances. Four pairs of jeans for the price of one, yayies! And Ross is like a black friday sale for discontinued designer clothing every day of the week.


i'm a guy and i love ross.. cheap NBA/NFL jerseys.. and definately great to look through to find some cool stuff in from time to time..

#75 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.0 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 02:18 PM

So you're comparing the most powerful retail store in the world to a "cripple?" WTF are you smoking/drinking/snorting/shooting? You must be a stockholder. Oh, and by the way, I don't seek vindication, I've been doing this for years and have no problem with it, besides I'm a little too old for most priests anyway.

No, I hate Wal-Mart as much as any good, American bleeding heart liberal should. That's why I don't shop there (lucky I'm not *forced* like you are, :rofl: ). I don't flip there, either. Just because I don't like a place, that doesn't mean I want to change my scruples about flipping. I don't like it at any store. Including Wal-Mart.

As far as "cripples," I recommend several years of reading comprehension for you, even if you're too old for a priest. You evidently missed my very lucid point that, if you're dumb enough to do something widely condemned on this site, and something whose legality is easily contended, don't act like you're saving the fucking planet from the corporate behemoth that is Wal-Mart because you have the stones to return a $10 for a brand-new, $50 game. Just admit you're being a selfish fucking pig and be done with it. The point is this: drop your pretenses, and just admit you're a piece of selfish shit. That's all, boy-o. Can't be that hard to consider, can it?

#76 rajchakrabarti   Your Soul is Mine. CAGiversary!   1142 Posts   Joined 18.0 Years Ago  

rajchakrabarti

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:14 PM

on another note...... while people say its illegeal .... so whats the actual penalty for getting caught ?

#77 poe   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   87 Posts   Joined 18.6 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:45 PM

on another note...... while people say its illegeal .... so whats the actual penalty for getting caught ?


I think it varies by state. Where I live, it would depend on how much it's done, but unless you form a group to clear out dollar stores and return product at higher cost retailers, plus flipping clearance merch as non-clearance elsewhere, you'd probably only be looking at a misdemeanor; I don't see how you'd do enough volume for anything more serious. Restitution and maybe community service, jail time is HIGHLY unlikely unless you didn't make restitution.

Anybody know specific precedents on this?

#78 jennie25   Cheapy Former Stoner! CAGiversary!   596 Posts   Joined 18.0 Years Ago  

jennie25

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:55 PM

I think it is wrong just because you are hurting the stores that provide you with good deals year round. People who rack up credit on this are just bitches.


but what if it isn't from the store that brought you the deal and you were just using an ad from another store to pick up the game hella cheap then return it no reciept to stick it to the store for full credit? is that bad? HELL NO it's called hustling! People do this all the time, drugs, girls, guns, games, whatever. I mean seriously, what is the difference in me picking up 3 copies of psychonaunts from tru, keeping one and flipping the other two at gamerush for 24 a piece when gamestop/ebgames were only offereing 9 each? Is there something immoral in that? nope, if you think there is, then you need to look into your soul and kill whever is telling you that and get on with you life!

#79 Sulmona   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   517 Posts   Joined 18.9 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 03:55 PM

the only time I have ever heard of anyone get in trouble for return fraud is when they print out UPC codes for cheap items, put em on more expensive items, buy the expensive items at the cheap price, and then try to return the expensive items without a receipt. The problem with this is that inventory will appear as though there is a theft (and rightfully so). As I recall, last year a group of people got caught for this after scamming Wal-mart hundreds of thousands of dollars.

#80 badboysean   Holy crip, he's a crapple CAGiversary!   491 Posts   Joined 18.5 Years Ago  

badboysean

Posted 01 January 2006 - 07:26 PM

wrongggggg forum

#81 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.0 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 08:00 PM

HELL NO it's called hustling! People do this all the time, drugs, girls, guns, games, whatever.


For reals, my homeslice. Me? I just sell tha rock to mah holmez, and then I go to da 'Mart and buy da three-sitty. And a case of docta' thunda. Word life.

#82 CYRiX   Banned Banned   2228 Posts   Joined 17.5 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 10:45 PM

Wal-Mart Scam? I wouldn't call it scam: other "normal" customers scam Wal-Mart a lot more than "flippers" do. Check the customer service office everyday at any Wal-Mart, you'll see ladies bringing back used bras, used underwear, used shoes, also, lots of bed/bath items or even make up. No one calls them out, even though they're not only 'scamming" Wal-Mart but creating lots of health hazards, especially with the lingerie and make up.

Considering the price that Wal-Mart pays for game through their vendors, the price they sell for worldwide, and what they do with returns, they're making as much as a profit as you are. If you buy a X-Men Legends II for $29.99, return it for $49.99, what really happens?

A. Wal-Mart shelves it, sells it, and makes profit without even having bought that unit.

B. Wal-Mart returns it as defective, receives a full credit for what they refunded you.

C. Wal-Mart sells it overseas or across the border, for a higher price: video games in Canada and Mexico are -much- more expensive, especially new releases.

D. Wal-Mart lost a little, but you did use the credit to buy from them, broke even, and maybe you bought some merchandise out of your own pocket while you were there.

The Blockbuster scam though? It's purely legal. They offer trade in credit for games. If a little boy or girl bought a copy of Finny The Fish or whatever those games used for the scam were, and then by accident her uncle got her one, and she took it in to Blockbuster with her mom, and got $50 credit, it's not a scam: it's perfectly legal. What's the difference between an individual legally obtaining 20 copies of the said game, then going to Blockbuster and doing the same? Trade limit per day? If he honors that limit, each day he can do it again and again.

Unless you stole the games, and then flipped them to obtain something legally, it's not wrong. Theft is wrong, working around the system while still working WITH THE SYSTEM isn't.

These scams are pointless though, low price guarantee at Fry's, now that's a way to make some money. In the past month, I've price matched them on their OWN prices, gotten refunds based on competitor advertisment, qualified for mail in rebates out of time of purchase, etc. Look at the Fry's ad every time it comes out: Sunday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday. Look at the other ads. Track every item you purchase for 30 days. I promise you, you'll be breaking even, getting 50% off, or getting it free after enough work.

Everyone read this.

#83 mr ryles   Plays bowling CAGiversary!   14732 Posts   Joined 18.9 Years Ago  

Posted 01 January 2006 - 10:51 PM

I was going to "flip" with this current $9.99 TRU sale. I could have bought some RE4's and turned them into wal-mart for either $49.99 or exchanged it straight across for a different game.

#84 alonzomourning23   all my heroes are dead CAGiversary!   7774 Posts   Joined 18.8 Years Ago  

alonzomourning23

Posted 01 January 2006 - 11:03 PM

What do you guys think of this? I bought an anime DVD from FYE during the clearance. I changed my mind but had lost the receipt. I went back about a week later to return it for the $30 I paid (was originally 90) and the sale had ended. I had assumed they'd do what most stores do and go with the lowest recent price. Instead they do the current price, and gave me $90 in credit. I didn't really feel too comfortable with it, especially since it was the same store I bought it in, but it wasn't really intentional either even if I could have technically corrected them, though they didn't even tell me until they handed me the credit slip.

Another time was when during the earlier toys r us sale (the one everyone was taking games from to go to FYE for credit to buy psp's and stuff). I did that with a few stores. One I walked into and the guy was half listening to me when I said I wanted to trade these in. I handed him 4 sealed games and he starts going through them and says "you're going to get $120 credit" or something in that range. I said sure and he gave me the slip. He did a return instead of a trade in.

#85 TheCochese   TheLegend CAGiversary!   13963 Posts   Joined 17.9 Years Ago  

Posted 02 January 2006 - 12:39 AM

Everyone read this.



Wrong is still wrong.

#86 adamsappel   lives Off The Grid. CAGiversary!   653 Posts   Joined 18.6 Years Ago  

adamsappel

Posted 02 January 2006 - 02:42 AM

What's the collective opinion on gift games? If Aunt Sarah didn't include a gift receipt with the copy of that game you absolutely don't want, should you trade it in for $6 at EB, or $50 at Wal-Mart? Does saying, "This was a gift" absolve the return? Does saying, "I'd like to exchange this without receipt for credit" do the same? Does saying, "This was a gift" and it's a lie doom you to a certain circle of Hell?

#87 judyjudyjudy   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   3593 Posts   Joined 18.6 Years Ago  

judyjudyjudy

Posted 02 January 2006 - 02:47 AM

What's the collective opinion on gift games? If Aunt Sarah didn't include a gift receipt with the copy of that game you absolutely don't want, should you trade it in for $6 at EB, or $50 at Wal-Mart? Does saying, "This was a gift" absolve the return? Does saying, "I'd like to exchange this without receipt for credit" do the same? Does saying, "This was a gift" and it's a lie doom you to a certain circle of Hell?

Unless you know for a fact she got it from Walmart, don't return it there. If you don't want it, trade it in or trade/sell it online on your own.

#88 mykevermin   Queen of Scotland CAGiversary!   37011 Posts   Joined 18.0 Years Ago  

Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:04 AM

What's the collective opinion on gift games? If Aunt Sarah didn't include a gift receipt with the copy of that game you absolutely don't want, should you trade it in for $6 at EB, or $50 at Wal-Mart? Does saying, "This was a gift" absolve the return? Does saying, "I'd like to exchange this without receipt for credit" do the same? Does saying, "This was a gift" and it's a lie doom you to a certain circle of Hell?

Ask Aunt Sarah for the gift receipt. If that doesn't work, find out what store it was purchased in. I disagree that you should feel obligated to trade it in, but I feel that you should take a minute or two to figure out where the game was purchased so you can exchange it properly.

This may seem contradictory to my vehement anti-flipping stance, but I feel this way: if you receive a gift, and try to exchange it, that's qualitatively different from flipping. I would consider flipping to not only involve fraudulently returning items to a store without a receipt, but *also* (and this is the crucial part that, since you didn't do, I would argue exonerates you) purchase titles, typically in bulk, at a clearance/reduced rate for the sole purpose of generating profit. That doesn't sound like you.

#89 Broccoli Storm   CAGiversary! CAGiversary!   901 Posts   Joined 18.9 Years Ago  

Broccoli Storm

Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:18 AM

With the TRU deal recently, I've looked into both Walmart and TRU's return policy pretty extensively. I'll focus on Walmart's right here:

First off, I went and looked around the store, especially by the returns/exchange counter in my store, and nowhere does it say anything about the item having to come from Walmart. On the website, it says returns without a receipt FOR ITEMS BOUGHT ON WALMART.COM can be returned for a store credit, but in the store it doesn't specify. Also, on the receipt for TRU and Walmart, it makes no mention of this issue.

Secondly, I asked a manager at a Walmart a bunch of questions. I made it clear what was going on and how people (including myself) were doing this. He said that they accept any item that they carry in the store with no receipt for the price they're currently selling it at. I explicitally asked: "Is it items you carry or items purchased from Walmart" and he said that it was items they carry. He also told me (which I'm sure many of you know) that once you make three returns without a receipt your account is supposedly red-flagged and you cannot return anymore. I haven't heard of this actually happening with anyone (my mom and I frequently return things to Walmart simply because we can't find the receipt and we have no idea where they came from).

Also, Walmart has never once asked me "where did you buy this?" or "did you buy this at a Walmart?" If people are so insistent on this being illegal (which I'm honestly not sure if it is or not), then why does Walmart not simply put up signs that state their policy clearly or require employees to ask where the item was purchased?

Another thing many people have brought up is the intention of the return. Sure, flippers are doing it to make a profit on a giftcard. But legally, what separates flippers from people who are returning items that didn't come from Walmart? What distinguishes someone who purchased the game to do this from someone who received a gift without a receipt or is not sure where something came from? If it didn't come from Walmart, they're all breaking this law (if it exists).

The answer is simple. Walmart should simply stop taking unopened games, DVDs, etc. They're pretty much the only large chain that I know of that is still doing this (Target's caught on in recent years, Best Buy/CC are very YMMV, and all videogame stores have NEVER allowed it). And just because people do it here, doesn't mean there aren't people out there doing worse things. I'm sure people scam Walmart and other stores much worse than a few teenagers buying 3 or 4 games and selling them back to Walmart so they can get a different game for a cheaper price. Oh, and if I haven't made it obvious how I feel, flipping is fine with me, as long as you're not a hoarder and buy 20 copies of the same game so no one else can get what they want. I've never operated like that and never will.

#90 fatherofcaitlyn   Der Uber Hoarder CAGiversary!   7155 Posts   Joined 17.2 Years Ago  

fatherofcaitlyn

Posted 02 January 2006 - 03:29 AM

I would consider flipping to not only involve fraudulently returning items to a store without a receipt, but *also* (and this is the crucial part that, since you didn't do, I would argue exonerates you) purchase titles, typically in bulk, at a clearance/reduced rate for the sole purpose of generating profit. That doesn't sound like you.


No, it sounds like me. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Of course, I'd prefer to create business relationships with companies to relieve them of their overstock. Sadly, most companies would rather let merchandise rot rather than unload them at cost or for a small profit.

I wish business types took a few math courses while getting their "degrees". Maybe then they would figure out that having racks upon racks of stagnant stock doesn't generate profit.

Hitting up stores for less than $20 of gross profit gets very tedious (and, given the direction of gas prices, unprofitable).

Oh, to contribute to the argument ...

If you don't have to lie to complete a flip, you've done nothing wrong.

Does it piss people off? Certainly, but there's nothing wrong with pissing people off either.

There's a difference between flipping and hoarding, but that's another post.