2 Explosions at Boston Marathon

[quote name='GBAstar']Yes that is my gaffe.

I didn't mean to suggest that there is a country out there that unilaterally recognizes that tactic as a means of warfare it whole heartily supports. Except maybe in the instance of the war in Vietnam...

However some countries don't have a single recognized central government and these tactics are being used and supported by groups that at least represent a marginal amount of political influence and power.[/QUOTE]

^Pure unadulterated racist xenophobia.

:whee:YOUR OWN HISTORY \\:D/
 
[quote name='Knoell']You are quite an obnoxious person.

I'm not sure you have any idea of what you are talking about.

It is almost as if you are just googling US terrorism and posting whatever you can dig up with no context or reference.

For one, "we are killing 3,000 children a day with sanctions even our allies oppose"



Oh, the saviors Russia and China! The champions of human rights and salvation of the people!

Hahahahaha.

They don't even treat their own people right. Not to mention their motives for being against sanctions aren't based on their heart of gold.[/QUOTE]

Really, the list I posted earlier was just a cut and paste from googling US Terrorism. If you have kids, I pray that you aren't the one to review their papers. Did you even bother to google those terms to find the list I posted? No, likely because you don't know how to use Google but heard Lim-baaaa mention it.

OMG, just realized what a clusterfuck your thought process is. You are thinking I'm talking about the Iran sanctions going on now. Wow, you have ZERO knowledge of recent history. Wow. Or else you would know I'm talking about IRAQ! I gave enough clues in their for anyone to know or even to Google it (which not so sure you know what it is). Man, how does it feel to be this ignorant? Really, inquiring minds want to know. Maybe you need to read up on... DRUMROLL PLEASE...

:whee:YOUR OWN HISTORY
\\:D/
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']This Man Tells A Senate Subcommittee About Al-Qaeda's Best Recruiting Technique. It Will Shock You.

"What radicals had previously failed to achieve in my village, one drone strike accomplished in an instant."

If this testimony doesn't move you and doesn't create pause in your irrational racist and xenophobic conjecture, you likely have no soul and/or are conservative.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIb0wMfOFhw[/QUOTE]

I saw that the other day. Heartbreaking to hear about the indistinguishable remains of people being buried with their dead animals. Really sick. Great spokesperson for the anti-drone folks.

I don't know anyone personally who has had a drone hovering overhead, but I do know people from some of these villages and regions, and it scares me that much more to think that innocents friends and associates could be killed by a US drone, because they happened to live in the same village as a guy American politicians really don't like.
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']Really, the list I posted earlier was just a cut and paste from googling US Terrorism. If you have kids, I pray that you aren't the one to review their papers. Did you even bother to google those terms to find the list I posted? No, likely because you don't know how to use Google but heard Lim-baaaa mention it.

OMG, just realized what a clusterfuck your thought process is. You are thinking I'm talking about the Iran sanctions going on now. Wow, you have ZERO knowledge of recent history. Wow. Or else you would know I'm talking about IRAQ! I gave enough clues in their for anyone to know or even to Google it (which not so sure you know what it is). Man, how does it feel to be this ignorant? Really, inquiring minds want to know. Maybe you need to read up on... DRUMROLL PLEASE...
[/QUOTE]

My post was directed towards current sanctions in Iran yes. I brought it up because you brought up the gracious countries who won't back such sanctions by such an evil country.

Newsflash, they do it solely for their own benefit, like every other country they are out there to protect their own ass. That is not to say what they do is right, but when you have multiple countries, you are bound to have conflicting interests, which cause GASP!, CONFLICT.

I think you need a lesson in what the world is actually like instead of digging up out of context dirt on one country.

:whee:YOUR WORLD HISTORY
\\:D/
 
I'm a little curious to hear what resources people are using to get educated on international affairs, foreign policy, and similar topics. I feel like perhaps 1-2 sources are being used, and a wider variety may really help educate folks on the topic.

Maybe we could start a reading list, and people with various views can add some books with the goal of getting people a more complete view of the world?

I'll start:
People's History of the United States-Howard Zinn
The Iron Wall-Avi Shlaim
War and Peace in the Middle East-Avi Shlaim
Diplomacy on the Jordan:International Conflict and Negotiated Resolution-Munther Haddadin (and I'll readily admit I'm tooting my own horn here, as I'm thanked in the acknowledgments of this book) ((which makes it even more amusing when less educated posters claim I know nothing of middle eastern politics, policies, and conflicts))
A Purity of Arms: An American in the Israeli Army-Aaron Wolf (again, full disclosure, I studied under this professor, and between he (an American-born Jew) and Munther Haddadin and arab orthodox Christian), they are two of the smartest people I have ever come into contact with in my life-Dr. Wolf's sister, Naomi, is a popular feminist author)
Palestine: Peace not Apartheid-Jimmy Carter
 
Most of what I know is from TV and Twitter. I can't remember all this stuff anyway, so I don't think reading a lot of books would help much.

I am really interested in watching / reading Dirty Wars, though.
 
[quote name='ID2006']Most of what I know is from TV and Twitter. I can't remember all this stuff anyway, so I don't think reading a lot of books would help much.

I am really interested in watching / reading Dirty Wars, though.[/QUOTE]

I'm not picking on you specifically, so I don't mean it like that, but it's incredible that for issues as complex as these, 140 character statements could be used as an educational tool.

I dunno, maybe that's the new way people are learning about things, but the depth, the sources, the peer review you get from an in-print book, so far exceeds what you can get through digested big media or Twitter. I truly wonder if that's why it seems like people have access to more information than ever before, but know less, than ever before.

Again, not trying to make it an accusation on you at all, just amazed that these are the places people are getting news on complicated issues.
 
Well, I mostly follow journalists and reporters on my Twitter account. So I read their articles and listen to their daily musings.
 
[quote name='berzirk']I'm not picking on you specifically, so I don't mean it like that, but it's incredible that for issues as complex as these, 140 character statements could be used as an educational tool.

I dunno, maybe that's the new way people are learning about things, but the depth, the sources, the peer review you get from an in-print book, so far exceeds what you can get through digested big media or Twitter. I truly wonder if that's why it seems like people have access to more information than ever before, but know less, than ever before.

Again, not trying to make it an accusation on you at all, just amazed that these are the places people are getting news on complicated issues.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, you're right about these new information sources. I think ID2006 is using it for article links so that is a good use of Twitter. I read a lot of articles but plug in books here and there. Not as much as I used to. I think that this new media has big minuses. They should complement scholarly in-depth analysis which is offered by books.

I heard Norman Finkelstein talk a couple months ago and he was bemoaning this too. He was talking about how in the past, after a lecture people came up to him afterwards. They would usually say, I've read this and that book of yours... Now, they say, I've watched this and that lecture of you on youtube but they haven't read his books! I think a big problem that we have and as indicated by the posts here is that a person can watch an hour lecture and believe that they are more knowledgeable than a person who reads a 300 page book on the subject. What does that say about our understandings of our own capacities and overstating them?
 
[quote name='Knoell']My post was directed towards current sanctions in Iran yes. I brought it up because you brought up the gracious countries who won't back such sanctions by such an evil country.

Newsflash, they do it solely for their own benefit, like every other country they are out there to protect their own ass. That is not to say what they do is right, but when you have multiple countries, you are bound to have conflicting interests, which cause GASP!, CONFLICT.

I think you need a lesson in what the world is actually like instead of digging up out of context dirt on one country.

:whee:YOUR WORLD HISTORY
\\:D/[/QUOTE]

First, this was my quote:
Does an anchor force UN sanctions (which even its allies oppose) that MURDER 3000 children (only counting age 5 and under) a month for 10 years?

I even gave you this which if you Googled would tell you what it was in reference to:
"We think the price is worth it."
That was Clinton's Sec of State Madelaine Albright answering Leslie Stahl on 60 Minutes on the impact of US-imposed sanctions on innocent Iraqi children 5 years and under.

You never gave me an answer to this by the way...
Here's some math: 3000x12x10 Figure that out and let me know how many lives that is.

So all that led you to think for dog knows what reason that it was Iran...

[quote name='Knoell']
For one, "we are killing 3,000 children a day with sanctions even our allies oppose"

Between 2006 and 2010, America got the UN Security Council to adopt six resolutions authorizing multilateral sanctions against Iran - also with limited impact, because China and Russia refused to allow any resolution to pass that would have harmed their interests in Iran

Oh, the saviors Russia and China! The champions of human rights and salvation of the people!

Hahahahaha.

They don't even treat their own people right. Not to mention their motives for being against sanctions aren't based on their heart of gold.[/QUOTE]


I know it's hard, just admit you did not know I was talking about Iraq even though I gave you numerous clues like "We think the price is worth it.", etc and mistook it for Iran which has nothing to do with 3000 children under the age of 5 murdered a month. Sad thing is that's YOUR OWN history. Instead of focusing on other's, first focus on yourself. Didn't your parents, priest, whoever teach you that? Why would anyone practically focus on someone else rather than themselves? Only reason I can think of is to obfuscate and deflect from someone's own crimes. YOUR OWN country is the one you can effect change in the most (at least I hope so). So, if it's doing wrong, that's who you start with. And boy, do we have a lot of things we can work on before we start talking hypocritically about others.
 
[quote name='berzirk']Well, lookout white people. Plan on getting tackled as you run away from explosions injured now. That'll happen, right?:

http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-minn-raid-disrupts-localized-terror-attack-163339217.html

"Buford Rogers, 24, of Montevideo, was arrested Friday..."[/QUOTE]


Big time criminal!

"We had information which indicated that Mr. Rogers was involved in a plot to conduct terror activities in and around the Montevideo area," he said.

Montevideo, MN: Population 5,383.

92% white.


Who the fuck was he trying to terrorize "in and around the Montevideo area".
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Big time criminal!



Montevideo, MN: Population 5,383.

92% white.


Who the fuck was he trying to terrorize "in and around the Montevideo area".[/QUOTE]

Let's not forget about the first post 9/11 terrorist conviction... William Krar! That's his MOOZ-LUM name! Yes, covered so well by the MSM.
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2004/spring/terror-american-style
Hey, hold on a sec here... let me find it... OK, here we go...

:whee:YOUR OWN HISTORY \\:D/
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='GBAstar']Big time criminal!



Montevideo, MN: Population 5,383.

92% white.


Who the fuck was he trying to terrorize "in and around the Montevideo area".[/QUOTE]

Wait, so the racial composition of a community is what helps classify things as terrorism, along with the number of people impacted? I guess that means any time a crime takes place around Montevideo, they should start pulling over all white people, and detain "suspicious looking" white people.
 
[quote name='joeboosauce'].[/QUOTE]


Seriously? I was making a point about the "allies" not wanting to put sanctions on countries you twit.

You pointed out how the US "forced" certain countries to push these sanctions on Iraq.

I pointed out how those countries have their own reasons (which you would not qualify as good reasons if it were the US) for not wanting to place sanctions by pointing out a current event such as the Iran sanctions.

It is called reading comprehension.

Try to follow along.

Knowing the world's history will tell you that the world is a dangerous, and that things aren't as clean cut as you think they are. Manipulation, meddling, and diplomatic sabetoge are common place. If you knew your world history you would then be able to place certain events within context instead of placing US policy in a vaccum and critiquing it. Once again, if you didn't understand the first time, that is not to say the US has not made mistakes or has not wrong people, but it is a lot more complex than you make it out to be.
 
So, here's some of the "why" behind the bombing.

Boston suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev 'left note in boat'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22563155
"When you attack one Muslim, you attack all Muslims."
Could be talking about all that US foreign policy stuff...

Blowback is a bitch. And before our conservative friends get their panties in a bunch and want to get on their Jump to Conclusions mat (Office Space reference), here is a good explanation of this CIA term courtesy of Wikipedia.
Blowback is unintended consequences of a covert operation that are suffered by the civil population of the aggressor government. To the civilians suffering the blowback of covert operations, the effect typically manifests itself as “random” acts of political violence without a discernible, direct cause; because the public—in whose name the intelligence agency acted—are ignorant of the effected secret attacks that provoked revenge (counter-attack) against them.

THE book on the topic:
Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire
Free excerpts from Blowback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daghrCfZVtM

Great point made in discussion. How Americans felt about the Boston bombing, that's how people who are attacked by the US military feel. And imagine the Boston thing happening everyday. THAT'S the reality of others.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Knoell']Seriously? I was making a point about the "allies" not wanting to put sanctions on countries you twit.

You pointed out how the US "forced" certain countries to push these sanctions on Iraq.

I pointed out how those countries have their own reasons (which you would not qualify as good reasons if it were the US) for not wanting to place sanctions by pointing out a current event such as the Iran sanctions.

It is called reading comprehension.

Try to follow along.

Knowing the world's history will tell you that the world is a dangerous, and that things aren't as clean cut as you think they are. Manipulation, meddling, and diplomatic sabetoge are common place. If you knew your world history you would then be able to place certain events within context instead of placing US policy in a vaccum and critiquing it. Once again, if you didn't understand the first time, that is not to say the US has not made mistakes or has not wrong people, but it is a lot more complex than you make it out to be.[/QUOTE]

Loser. Just quite making excuses and admit you're wrong. It's clearly in your post. Apply reading comprehension to, here we go again...
:whee:YOUR OWN POST \\:D/

So, don't bother responding unless you understand your own dog-damned posts.
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']

Great point made in discussion. How Americans felt about the Boston bombing, that's how people who are attacked by the US military feel. And imagine the Boston thing happening everyday. THAT'S the reality of others.[/QUOTE]

This right here shows you are so blatently ignorant. It's not even worth discussing anymore, you are just one crazy fuck.
 
No, what he said was pretty spot on.

Now, if only we could get some folks in office that would stop bombing other countries because the sky is blue today.
 
[quote name='joeboosauce']
Great point made in discussion. How Americans felt about the Boston bombing, that's how people who are attacked by the US military feel. And imagine the Boston thing happening everyday. THAT'S the reality of others.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='UncleBob']No, what he said was pretty spot on.

Now, if only we could get some folks in office that would stop bombing other countries because the sky is blue today.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding the concept of collateral damage and the retaliation it begets.
 
We should get out today. Put everybody on a plane and bring them home. It's enough.

Of course, that will cause widespread chaos both domestically and internationally that we are not at all willing to face.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']Agreed. I don't know why people have such a hard time understanding the concept of collateral damage and the retaliation it begets.[/QUOTE]
People don't like to admit that their side does anything wrong. Since it's our government, admitting we've killed a bunch of innocents would require people to take responsibility for their government. As long as stuff like this happens a world away to people that many of us don't even like, nobody really has a problem with it. When it happens here at home, people get all pissed off and act like we (as a whole) did nothing to provoke it. I wonder how many innocent people we've killed for every 1 life that was lost in the Boston bombing? Hell, just count the drone bombings alone.

Those people killed in Boston didn't deserve to die, but there are a whole lot of people we've killed who also didn't deserve it, and if we continue it's only going to make people more angry, and more likely to strike back at us. We've got to stop acting like American lives are worth more than any other.
 
[quote name='Clak']People don't like to admit that their side does anything wrong. Since it's our government, admitting we've killed a bunch of innocents would require people to take responsibility for their government. As long as stuff like this happens a world away to people that many of us don't even like, nobody really has a problem with it. When it happens here at home, people get all pissed off and act like we (as a whole) did nothing to provoke it. I wonder how many innocent people we've killed for every 1 life that was lost in the Boston bombing? Hell, just count the drone bombings alone.

Those people killed in Boston didn't deserve to die, but there are a whole lot of people we've killed who also didn't deserve it, and if we continue it's only going to make people more angry, and more likely to strike back at us. We've got to stop acting like American lives are worth more than any other.[/QUOTE]

It is almost as if you are sympathizing with the guy, and it is pathetic.

It is not about whether our government is right or wrong. It is about having zero tolerance for criminal acts against our people. Regardless of whether or not we are at fault directly, indirectly, or not at all. As a country we should not be saying "blowbacks a bitch". Which is why he is an ignorant fucker.

You want to try and prevent another Boston Bombing with your theories on why it is happening? Go right ahead. But this case is closed, the fuckers got (and will get) what is coming to them, and they will rot in hell. The only blame to be issued is on THEM.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
To greatly overslimplify... I could walk up to a complete and total stranger and say "Your mother is a whore." - and that stranger may punch me right in the face. That reaction would be uncalled for and illegal, no doubt.

But, that doesn't mean that *I* couldn't learn a lesson about approaching strangers and calling their mothers whores.
 
[quote name='Clak']there are a whole lot of people we've killed who also didn't deserve it[/QUOTE]

The vehement denial that there is, was, or ever could be any potential truth to the above statement is a cornerstone of the conservative mindset when it comes to global capitalism and foreign policy.

See the armchair generals when it comes to the response to the Benghazi attacks.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']To greatly overslimplify... I could walk up to a complete and total stranger and say "Your mother is a whore." - and that stranger may punch me right in the face. That reaction would be uncalled for and illegal, no doubt.

But, that doesn't mean that *I* couldn't learn a lesson about approaching strangers and calling their mothers whores.[/QUOTE]

I can see what you are saying and you are blatently wrong.

People commonly overuse and misuse the blowback term. Think about it.

Let's say the guy that shot up the CT school said "I did it because of iraq and afghanistan".

Is that really considered blowback?

The people in this forum have no grasp of foreign policy and diplomacy. They lower it to the lowest common denominator and compare death to death.

I will say one more time, this doesn't mean that the US is always right. The US certainly needs more oversight when conducting operations overseas. The statements about these things is not what bothers me, what bothers me is the ridiculous statements that get paired with them.
 
UncleBob said:
To greatly overslimplify... I could walk up to a complete and total stranger and say "Your mother is a whore." - and that stranger may punch me right in the face. That reaction would be uncalled for and illegal, no doubt.

But, that doesn't mean that *I* couldn't learn a lesson about approaching strangers and calling their mothers whores.
I can see what you are saying and you are blatently wrong.

People commonly overuse and misuse the blowback term. Think about it.

Let's say the guy that shot up the CT school said "I did it because of iraq and afghanistan".

Is that really considered blowback?

The people in this forum have no grasp of foreign policy and diplomacy. They lower it to the lowest common denominator and compare death to death.

I will say one more time, this doesn't mean that the US is always right. The US certainly needs more oversight when conducting operations overseas. The statements about these things is not what bothers me, what bothers me is the ridiculous statements that get paired with them.
I think Bob made a great analogy actually...but how did I miss your gem, stating the people in this forum have no grasp of foreign policy? Holy hell man...You do realize that you're one of the greatest offenders of not knowing shit, and repeating your lack of knowledge with pride, like somehow that makes it an educated opinion or fact...right? Explain to the good people how you have acquired this immense knowledge and education on foreign policy. Heck, since we have been bringing Iraq and Afghanistan into it, how bout your credentials as a person of knowledge for the Middle East and North Africa?

Entertain us.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is that really considered blowback?

The people in this forum have no grasp of foreign policy and diplomacy.
Haha! The baseless arrogance and total ignorance displayed above by Noel summons another...

:whee:YOUR OWN HISTORY \\:D/

Stupid ignorant fuck. Go across the world and kill some babies for your "our gov't is not always right". Yup, 3000x12x10 5- year olds. How many times is that "not always right"?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Former British soldier Joe Glenton, who served in the war in Afghanistan wrote an article in the Guardian :

"It should by now be self-evident that by attacking Muslims overseas, you will occasionally spawn twisted and, as we saw yesterday, even murderous hatred at home. We need to recognise that, given the continued role our government has chosen to play in the US imperial project in the Middle East, we are lucky that these attacks are so few and far between."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-british-foreign-policy-role

So, to our soulless hawkish warmongering jingoistic baby-killing loving genocidaliist CAG, I say you should count your blessings and thank all the people of the world (its not just Muslims) for not retaliating against an ONSLAUGHT of US war crimes. Imperialism has its consequences.

Woolwich attack: of course British foreign policy had a role

While nothing can justify the killing of a British soldier, the link to Britain's vicious occupations abroad cannot be ignored

I am a former soldier. I completed one tour of duty in Afghanistan, refused on legal and moral grounds to serve a second tour, and spent five months in a military prison as a result. When the news about theattack in Woolwich broke, by pure coincidence Ross Caputi was crashing on my sofa. Ross is a soft-spoken ex-US marine turned film-maker who served in Iraq and witnessed the pillaging and irradiation of Falluja. He is also a native of Boston, the scene of a recent homegrown terror attack. Together, we watched the news, and right away we were certain that what we were seeing was informed by the misguided military adventures in which we had taken part.

So at the very outset, and before the rising tide of prejudice and pseudo-patriotism fully encloses us, let us be clear: while nothing can justify the savage killing in Woolwich yesterday of a man since confirmed to have been a serving British soldier, it should not be hard to explain why the murder happened.

These awful events cannot be explained in the almost Texan terms of Colonel Richard Kemp, who served as commander of British forces in Afghanistan in 2001. He tweeted on last night that they were "not about Iraq or Afghanistan", but were an attack on "our way of life". Plenty of others are saying the same.

But let's start by examining what emerged from the mouths of the assailants themselves. In an accent that was pure London, according to one of the courageous women who intervened at the scene, one alleged killer claimed he was "… fed up with people killing Muslims in Afghanistan …". It is unclear whether it was the same man, or his alleged co-assailant, who said "… bring our [Note: our] troops home so we can all live in peace".

It should by now be self-evident that by attacking Muslims overseas, you will occasionally spawn twisted and, as we saw yesterday, even murderous hatred at home. We need to recognise that, given the continued role our government has chosen to play in the US imperial project in the Middle East, we are lucky that these attacks are so few and far between.

It is equally important to point out, however, that rejection of and opposition to the toxic wars that informed yesterday's attacks is by no means a "Muslim" trait. Vast swaths of the British population also stand in opposition to these wars, including many veterans of the wars like myself and Ross, as well as serving soldiers I speak to who cannot be named here for fear of persecution.

Yet this anti-war view, so widely held and strongly felt, finds no expression in a parliament for whom the merest whiff of boot polish or military jargon causes a fit of "Tommy this, Tommy that …" jingoism. The fact is, there are two majority views in this country: one in the political body that says war, war and more war; and one in the population which says it's had enough of giving up its sons and daughter abroad and now, again, at home.

For 12 years British Muslims have been set upon, pilloried and alienated by successive governments and by the media for things that they did not do. We must say clearly that the alleged actions of these two men are theirs alone, regardless of being informed by the wars, and we should not descend into yet another round of collective responsibility peddling.

Indeed, if there is collective responsibility for the killings, it belongs to the hawks whose policies have caused bloodbaths – directly, as in Afghanistan and Iraq, and indirectly in places as far apart as Woolwich and Boston, which in turn have created political space for the far right to peddle their hatred, as we saw in the immediate aftermath of the Woolwich attack.

What we must do now is straightforward enough. Our own responsibilities are first of all to make sure innocents are not subject to blanket punishment for things that they did not do, and to force our government – safe in their houses – to put an end to Britain's involvement in the vicious foreign occupations that have again created bloodshed in London.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
bread's done
Back
Top