2009 MLB Discussion Thread

[quote name='dafoomie']
They are content to win 95 games and get the wildcard, and thats the problem. The road to the World Series goes through the Yankees, their lineup last year wasn't even good enough to beat the Angels and now its appreciably worse. If you're not competing with the Yankees, you're not competing for the World Series.

That lineup is adequate to get into the playoffs but they can and should do better.[/QUOTE]

No offense, but this is exactly the wrong type of thinking that I hate to see from fellow Sox fans. Yes, the Sox have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, but if they spend all their time trying to counter everything the Yankees do they're going to run themselves into the ground. The Sox do NOT have the financial muscle to match the Yankees' payroll, they need to be creative.

This means continuing to cultivate home-grown talent and, more importantly, being able to adapt to the market in any given year. Sure, the Sox could go for broke in any given year and put together a 100 win team, but they'll cripple themselves going forward, and mortgage the farm in the process.

Focusing on the Yankees is exactly the wrong way to go about it. I personally don't care if they win the Wild Card or the division. I just want them in the playoffs. And despite what you say, pitching DOES make as big a difference in the playoffs as offense. More maybe.

Furthermore, I don't know why you seem to think Youkilis isn't an elite bat, but he is. Pedroia and Martinez are also top 5 hitters at their respective positions in the league. If you are judging "impact bat" against the standard of Manny Ramirez in the prime of his career, than you are going to be dissapointed. But it should be pointed out that neither Bay nor Holliday is that guy either, they both have flaws in their games. But winning line-ups are built one through nine, just ask Barry Bonds' Giants of the early 2000s.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Lackey has pitched quite well at Fenway in his recent starts so I think that knock against him is overblown. Also keep in mind he was pitching AGAINST the Sox so that also won't be an issue.

The Sox now have the best pitching staff in the AL and sets up a major trade with Buchholz for a big bat (can anyone say Adrian Gonzalez?) . If this happens, the Sox are the AL East champs.[/QUOTE]

Despite the addition of Lackey, I still have absolutely no interest in trading Buchholz whatsoever. I still think his future is with the Sox, especially if Beckett is gone after next year (which I don't think is a foregone conclusion). The Sox have more than enough depth on the farm to trade for an impact bat without trading him.

That said, while I think getting Gonzalez and moving Youks to third would probably be a net positive, it should be noted that while Youks is an elite defender at 1st, at this point he's average at best at the hot corner. If defense is what they're going for, Beltre would seem to me to be the better option, particularly since he costs you nothing in prospects. Is Gonzalez + Wake as your fifth starter appreciably better than Beltre + Buchholz as your fifth starter? I'm not sure.
 
Gonzalez is an excellent defensive first baseman and Youkilis was always well above average at third base (which was his primary position). So if this is the plan, which I think it is, the Sox would be in excellent shape both defensively and offensively.

Buchholz is a good prospect no doubt, but I don't think he'll have any more value than he does right now as a trading chip for an elite, young hitter. If he needs to be a cornerstone in a trade to land a player like Gonzalez, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Gonzalez is an excellent defensive first baseman and Youkilis was always well above average at third base (which was his primary position). So if this is the plan, which I think it is, the Sox would be in excellent shape both defensively and offensively.

Buchholz is a good prospect no doubt, but I don't think he'll have any more value than he does right now as a trading chip for an elite, young hitter. If he needs to be a cornerstone in a trade to land a player like Gonzalez, I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]

Youks is no longer a plus defender at third base, his time there last year proved that. He just doesn't have phenomenal range over there. He's certainly not a negative by any means, but he's nowhere near as good as Beltre, who's one of the best defensive 3B in the game.

I guess I just think that Buchholz is ready to move beyond prospect status and make a real impact with the big club. I'd rather he have that chance with the Sox, they've invested too much in him for me to have to see him succeed someplace else.

If you can get Gonzalez without trading Buchholz, than I agree thats the better option, but I maintain that having him in the rotation over Wake is going to make just as big a difference as the offensive upgrade (and slight defensive downgrade) from Beltre to Gonzalez.
 
[quote name='bvharris']No offense, but this is exactly the wrong type of thinking that I hate to see from fellow Sox fans. Yes, the Sox have one of the highest payrolls in baseball, but if they spend all their time trying to counter everything the Yankees do they're going to run themselves into the ground. The Sox do NOT have the financial muscle to match the Yankees' payroll, they need to be creative.

This means continuing to cultivate home-grown talent and, more importantly, being able to adapt to the market in any given year. Sure, the Sox could go for broke in any given year and put together a 100 win team, but they'll cripple themselves going forward, and mortgage the farm in the process.

Focusing on the Yankees is exactly the wrong way to go about it. I personally don't care if they win the Wild Card or the division. I just want them in the playoffs. And despite what you say, pitching DOES make as big a difference in the playoffs as offense. More maybe.

Furthermore, I don't know why you seem to think Youkilis isn't an elite bat, but he is. Pedroia and Martinez are also top 5 hitters at their respective positions in the league. If you are judging "impact bat" against the standard of Manny Ramirez in the prime of his career, than you are going to be dissapointed. But it should be pointed out that neither Bay nor Holliday is that guy either, they both have flaws in their games. But winning line-ups are built one through nine, just ask Barry Bonds' Giants of the early 2000s.[/QUOTE]
The division is completely meaningless but the Yankees are going to be there in the ALCS for the foreseeable future. If we're resigned to the fact that we're not as good as they are, you might as well not even field a team.

You can't outspend the Yankees, you have to be more efficient than they are. Efficient is not how I would categorize paying $9 million to be rid of Lowell and $10 million for Beltre. Or Julio Lugo's dead money, or J.D. Drew's contract.

I do not consider Bay or Holliday to be elite talent but right now, there doesn't seem to be a player on the market willing to pay that kind of money for either. Cameron should hit well at Fenway but it rules you out of getting either of those two unless you're going to move Ellsbury.

The Sox have done a great job of developing prospects and evaluating starting pitching (except for Smoltz and Penny). They thought they could cut corners in the bullpen and that the closer was not an important role, but they've corrected that situation. And they've always been able to find productive players for short dollars like Mueller, Millar, Ortiz... But I've never liked how they've evaluated higher end players. They fell in love with Lugo, Drew, Renteria, I don't think they've ever brought in a batter for significant money through free agency that worked out.

These OBP guys are fine but you need that big bat in the lineup if you want a WS. Arod, Teixeira, Howard, Manny, Papi, Pujols, Konerko, Dye, Lee, Cabrera, Glaus, Gonzalez...
 
I think Theo knows exactly what he is doing.

Bay is not worth what he wants (5 years, more than $15 million per) so rather than overpaying for him (which the Yankees would normally do in the same situation), they moved on to reallocate that money to sign the best pitcher available. They won't be able to field a lineup that can surpass the Yankees offensively, but definitely they have the chance to have better pitching. Beckett, Lester, Lackey, Dice-K and either Buchholz (if he sticks) or Wakefield is an extremely deep rotation and hands down the best in the AL East if not in the MLB. Lackey also covers them if they can't extend Beckett's contract. This also makes it easier to use Buchholz as a trade chip and I do think a major trade is in the works for an impact hitter (as I've mentioned in previous posts, I think it'll be Adrian Gonzalez as he would fit perfectly in Fenway).

Now that Bay is not in their plans and Holliday is probably out their reach, I think they are going to go with a platoon in left. Cameron is a very underrated player; has both above average power and speed with gold glove defense and hits lefties very well (OPS of .937 over past three years). It should be noted that the Yankees' top two pitchers are both lefty. Hermida is okay against righties (OPS almost .800) but is young enough to improve significantly on that. I think its fair to say that combined, their offensive production could be comparable to Bay with significantly better defense for half what Bay will likely get as an annual salary.

I really will be disappointed though if the Sox sign Beltre, I don't think he'll be good fit.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']The division is completely meaningless but the Yankees are going to be there in the ALCS for the foreseeable future. If we're resigned to the fact that we're not as good as they are, you might as well not even field a team.

You can't outspend the Yankees, you have to be more efficient than they are. Efficient is not how I would categorize paying $9 million to be rid of Lowell and $10 million for Beltre. Or Julio Lugo's dead money, or J.D. Drew's contract.
[/QUOTE]

Being not as good as they are doesn't mean the Red Sox can't beat them. Building a team around pitching and defense means building a team that can compete in a long playoff series. You yourself acknowledge that there is not a true impact bat available (the only viable scenario I could see is a trade for Miggy Cabrera) so what's the point in spinning our tires about it? We're not going to get a hitter as good as A-Rod or Teixeira. It's moot.

They should improve the team the best way they can, while not mortgaging their future. In my eyes, that's exactly what they're doing.
 
Would you trade Ellsbury, Buchholz, + for Adrian Gonzalez? I'd have to think about it, thats a huge price. But I might have to do it, you've got Ellsbury's replacement already in Cameron, and Buchholz at this point is your 4th starter. You still have Matsuzaka, Wakefield, and potentially Bonser for the bottom 2 spots, or you could go out and get Sheets, Garland, or another project like Wang, or Chapman if you think he's a major league starter by the All Star break. At that point you'd just need a platoon partner for Hermida in left, or Bay/Holliday if they really wanted to (they don't).

40 HR with half his games at Petco. 28 HR and a 1.045 OPS on the road. Still only 27. These are the kind of guys they trade prospects for, Beckett was 26 when they traded for him.
 
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[quote name='dafoomie']The lack of an impact bat in the Sox lineup last year is what killed them. They'll put up runs against mediocre pitching in the regular season as they always have, but when the playoffs come around, and all they're facing are #1 and #2 starters, they're going to struggle.

In 04 and 07, they had two #1 starters AND two of the top 5 hitters in baseball. Right now, I'm not sure if they've got anyone in the top 25. Theres not a lot of power in that lineup, no one is a lock for 30 HR. How can one of the top 5 payrolls not have a single elite power bat in their lineup?

They are content to win 95 games and get the wildcard, and thats the problem. The road to the World Series goes through the Yankees, their lineup last year wasn't even good enough to beat the Angels and now its appreciably worse. If you're not competing with the Yankees, you're not competing for the World Series.

That lineup is adequate to get into the playoffs but they can and should do better.[/QUOTE]

This post seems weird to me....Don't almost all teams struggle against 1 and 2 quality pitchers? I mean that's why they are 1 and 2 quality .... because they shut other teams down? The problem against those teams usually doesn't have to do with having an impact bat...it's having the ability to produce runs in clutch situations that don't include big power. I mean ever since steroids went wayside you don't see big game breaking homeruns left and right, especially against upper echleon type starts.

Now I will agree the Red Sox made the rite move getting John Lackey, Even if they did overpay for him dramatically. Being in Seattle I heard alot of AL West scouts on radio talk about John Lackey's pitch counts crawling up and he occasionally has trouble even getting threw 5 innings now. He is older, but they say his stuff has degraded. It's hard to be a fan of a small market when you feel like your always one player away that you can't afford them. It never makes sense to pay someone for what they did on another team seeing as how usually at another time they were just flat out better...

You know sometimes I hate free agency because i always believed someone is a free agent for a reason. Obviously if Team A believes a player is worth keeping then they will pay. Most big time players don't hit free agency anymore because teams trade off arbitation eligible or free agent pending players for prospects to a team who can resign or afford that player. Occasionally a big time player hits the market, but usually what we are getting nowdays is guys like matt holliday or jason bay who are not elite players wanting retarded elite money just because they are the best available.

Yes a few posts ago I read that it's all about cultivating a farm system , even now more then ever because it's these prospects that allow you to get control of a player because he hits free agency. Smart reasoning.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Would you trade Ellsbury, Buchholz, + for Adrian Gonzalez? I'd have to think about it, thats a huge price. But I might have to do it, you've got Ellsbury's replacement already in Cameron, and Buchholz at this point is your 4th starter. You still have Matsuzaka, Wakefield, and potentially Bonser for the bottom 2 spots, or you could go out and get Sheets, Garland, or another project like Wang, or Chapman if you think he's a major league starter by the All Star break. At that point you'd just need a platoon partner for Hermida in left, or Bay/Holliday if they really wanted to (they don't).

40 HR with half his games at Petco. 28 HR and a 1.045 OPS on the road. Still only 27. These are the kind of guys they trade prospects for, Beckett was 26 when they traded for him.[/QUOTE]

Ellsbury + Buchholz? Not in a million years would I make that deal. Look, I'm not one of those people who's doggedly loyal to homegrown talent in the face of all logic, but come on. Ellsbury is only going to get better as he develops as a hitter, he's already arrived in terms of baserunning and fielding. And Buchholz is finally beginning to put it together. If I'm trading those two guys, its going to be for someone better than Gonzalez (not that I don't think he's great). I would rather bundle some of our other young guys who are blocked or won't see the majors for a while, like Casey Kelley for example.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']This post seems weird to me....Don't almost all teams struggle against 1 and 2 quality pitchers? I mean that's why they are 1 and 2 quality .... because they shut other teams down? The problem against those teams usually doesn't have to do with having an impact bat...it's having the ability to produce runs in clutch situations that don't include big power.[/QUOTE]
Thats what separates very good players from great hitters. The trendy players lately are the guys that get on base that don't necessarily hit for average or power, and those guys were undervalued for a long time. But who do you want at the plate with the game on the line? A quality pitcher isn't going to walk you there.
 
[quote name='bvharris']Ellsbury + Buchholz? Not in a million years would I make that deal. Look, I'm not one of those people who's doggedly loyal to homegrown talent in the face of all logic, but come on. Ellsbury is only going to get better as he develops as a hitter, he's already arrived in terms of baserunning and fielding. And Buchholz is finally beginning to put it together. If I'm trading those two guys, its going to be for someone better than Gonzalez (not that I don't think he's great). I would rather bundle some of our other young guys who are blocked or won't see the majors for a while, like Casey Kelley for example.[/QUOTE]
Ellsbury is only a year younger than Gonzalez though. I'd certainly prefer to trade guys who aren't major league ready let alone guys on the major league roster, but if thats the price, I'd think about it. The other rumor was Buchholz and Casey Kelly.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Thats what separates very good players from great hitters. The trendy players lately are the guys that get on base that don't necessarily hit for average or power, and those guys were undervalued for a long time. But who do you want at the plate with the game on the line? A quality pitcher isn't going to walk you there.[/QUOTE]

Tough call...power hiiters usually have more of chance of tieing it one swing but have a high chance of striking out (or godforbid the twin killers.....) A High OBP guy sees alot of pitches and has more of a chance of getting a mistake. However of course the downside like you said is the reduced chance of taking a walk however a hitter with a good eye also has a chance of laying off the pitches that get hitters in trouble.

Plus if you have speed at the top of your lineup you can change the game with a running threat alone.

After watching Adrian Beltre for 4 years now up here, I have to say I am glad to see him go even tho he has a great personaltiy and you'll love it. His problem is he is consistently down 0-2, 1-2 in the count, doesn't walk much, and the fact he puts himself in so many holes hurts his Slugging because he never works counts in his favor. His glove IS phenomal though and he put Mike Blowers and Jeff Cirillo to shame. But if you asked me, I'd rather pay the money to a half and half guy like David Bell from 2000/01 (Servicable defender and offense.)
 
As a phils fan, its real disheartening that they are dumping Lee for a couple of prospects and to save some cash. Especially cause we are paying Moyer 8 mill next year and its hard to believe no one would take blanton for some draft picks or really rough minor league prospects. Hell I'll start a collection bucket to help raise the money to keep Lee for a year.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']As a phils fan, its real disheartening that they are dumping Lee for a couple of prospects and to save some cash. Especially cause we are paying Moyer 8 mill next year and its hard to believe no one would take blanton for some draft picks or really rough minor league prospects. Hell I'll start a collection bucket to help raise the money to keep Lee for a year.[/QUOTE]
Not that I'm trying to help the assholes that have eliminated us in the playoffs for two straight years, but who on this planet wouldn't effectively trade Blanton for Lee?
 
This seems to be an East Coast thread, but I'll go ahead and post anyway. My Sox (the White ones) just picked up Juan Pierre. We've got the pitching (Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Garcia), and now some speed (Rios, Pierre, A. Ramirez). Now, all we need is about 4 months of defensive drills to be a real team again!
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Ellsbury is only a year younger than Gonzalez though. I'd certainly prefer to trade guys who aren't major league ready let alone guys on the major league roster, but if thats the price, I'd think about it. The other rumor was Buchholz and Casey Kelly.[/QUOTE]

I know Ellsbury is only a year younger, but its not just Ellsbury you're talking about, it's Ellsbury + Buchholz. My frame of reference here is that I'm expecting Wakefield to be an appreciably inferior pitcher to Buchholz in 2010. Plus, given that none of the Sox starters are surefire bets to avoid injuries, I think you want to be as deep at starter as you can. I really don't want to roll out a rotation that features Boof Bonser. Consequently, I'd much rather trade Ellsbury at this point than Buchholz, and I expect he'd be a more valuable trading chip. But both of them, even for Adrian Gonzalez, is a steep price for me. The only way I'd think about trading Buchholz is if they're bringing in another pitcher or if they think Bowden or Tazawa is ready to be a 5th starter (which I don't, in either case).
 
[quote name='SoxFan13']This seems to be an East Coast thread, but I'll go ahead and post anyway. My Sox (the White ones) just picked up Juan Pierre. We've got the pitching (Peavy, Buehrle, Danks, Floyd, Garcia), and now some speed (Rios, Pierre, A. Ramirez). Now, all we need is about 4 months of defensive drills to be a real team again![/QUOTE]
I know it's fashionable to hate on Pierre for the arm, but you're getting an ULTRA motivated player who feels like he's just wasted 3 years of his prime on the Dodgers bench. All he did for the Dodgers is make clutch hits over and over when it counted, batted over .300, steal an absurd amount of bases despite having a starting job for only a 1/3 of a season, and play the part of the professional despite absolutely hating his situation.

I'm excited for Pierre. You got yourself a very serviceable veteran CF at a decent price that plays a style the coach loves. Good for him and good for ya'll.
 
[quote name='bvharris']I know Ellsbury is only a year younger, but its not just Ellsbury you're talking about, it's Ellsbury + Buchholz. My frame of reference here is that I'm expecting Wakefield to be an appreciably inferior pitcher to Buchholz in 2010. Plus, given that none of the Sox starters are surefire bets to avoid injuries, I think you want to be as deep at starter as you can. I really don't want to roll out a rotation that features Boof Bonser. Consequently, I'd much rather trade Ellsbury at this point than Buchholz, and I expect he'd be a more valuable trading chip. But both of them, even for Adrian Gonzalez, is a steep price for me. The only way I'd think about trading Buchholz is if they're bringing in another pitcher or if they think Bowden or Tazawa is ready to be a 5th starter (which I don't, in either case).[/QUOTE]
I don't think it would be a problem to bring in another starter though, you're only looking for a 5th starter. As much as Jon Garland sucks, he'd be a perfectly adequate 5th starter. He's been up near 200 innings for the last 8 years. They've already got an offer on the table for Chapman and they've been in talks with Duchscherer. Or you could ask for Chris Young to be included with Gonzalez, he's their highest paid player.

The problem is, if you trade Buchholz AND Ellsbury you need to bring in another pitcher and a left fielder, I'm not sure if they'd spend the money to get a quality player in either position.
 
So, am I the only Angels fan here?

I think the Matsui signing is a good thing, as we desperately need a hitter that can actually perform in the post-season.

I'm sad we won't have Lackey anymore, but our pitching staff is already pretty solid.

Still looks like we wont have any competition in the AL West again.
 
[quote name='Brownjohn']So, am I the only Angels fan here?

I think the Matsui signing is a good thing, as we desperately need a hitter that can actually perform in the post-season.

I'm sad we won't have Lackey anymore, but our pitching staff is already pretty solid.

Still looks like we wont have any competition in the AL West again.[/QUOTE]

Im a Mariners fan....that last comment...you have to be kidding? No competition? The mariners won 85 games last year with no offense and missed 88-90 because of Sean white's injury late in year. Damn, in the middle of the season last year it was so bad for the Mariners offense that Franklin Guitz and Jose Lopez were the only two major league quality hitters they had in their starting lineup!

They added a high OBP guy (figgins) to bolster the top of their lineup and they aren't done yet in free agency and still have trading chips and money available. The best move they made in the offseason was not trading Carlos Silva for Milton Bradley. Better to just pay Carlos Silva to eat and watch games they deal with Milton Bradleys garbage.

They got Cliff Lee for nothing, and even when they lose Lee after this year they will get two sandwich first round picks to replace the talent they gave up for him.

Jackie Z is going for the gold this year. He isn't sitting around waiting for "next year." The Mariners will be trading Felix Hernandez in two years most likely and this 2 year window might be best chance we have in a LONG time...
 
Buchholz, Kelly and if need be, Westmoreland or whatever other prospect for Gonzalez, I would do in a second. But not both Buchholz and Ellsbury.

I also think Cameron is going to surprise a lot of naysayers. As fantasy baseball fanatics know, he's one of the more underrated players in baseball.
 
[quote name='dopa345']The Mariners have the AL West locked up in my opinion. I would be very worried if I were an Angels fan.[/QUOTE]

It's not locked up by any means, the angels still have a decent team and the Rangers are a year better especially if harden stays healthy.
 
The Mariners are going to be competitive, but if they want to go anywhere they're going to have to get another bat. They should be all over Bay, but that doesn't really fit with the defense-first approach they seem to be taking.

I would love to see Gonzalez on the Red Sox, but Buchholz plus Ellsbury is too much. Buchholz plus Kelly plus Westmoreland is even worse. Plus Westmoreland is from RI and apparently passed up going to college only because he wanted to play for the Red Sox--I don't think the team will step on that by turning around and trading him. That wouldn't look good for future tough signs. Besides, they have so little power in the minors.
 
Honestly, Seattle should have gone after Matsui. A lot of people thought they would try to bring him in to play with Ichiro, and at $6 million for 1 year, it's not like he was really even looking for much. That would have been a bargain for a DH who's easily good for .270, 25, 80.
 
[quote name='namtrahj']The Mariners are going to be competitive, but if they want to go anywhere they're going to have to get another bat.[/QUOTE]

Definitely. It's great that they have Ichiro and Figgins. Who exactly is gonna drive them in? The Mariners had the worst offense in the AL last year.
 
Am I the only Yankee fan who thinks it's completely retarded to say you want to get younger and more athletic and that you don't want a full-time DH...only to go out and sign a 31 year old, slow, injury-prone 1st baseman who will now clog up not only the bases but also the DH spot, because you already have a Gold Glove, MVP-caliber player at his position. Not only all of that, but you pay him $5.5 million...only a million less than the World Series MVP got...what...the...fuck...

Before, I was only slightly annoyed that that they let Matsui walk, because it seemed like they were gonna either resign Damn and let him DH a lot or simply leave the spot open to rest everyone. I liked Matsui, but at least they seemed like they had some decent plans. But this move is simply stupid, in my opinion. Nick Johnson gets on base, but for a DH/1B, his power numbers are pathetic. He had one of the lowest slugging percentages for qualifying 1st baseman, coming in behind such sluggers as Daniel Murphy and Jorge Cantu. To let Matsui go and replace him at the DH spot with this just makes no sense.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Am I the only Yankee fan who thinks it's completely retarded to say you want to get younger and more athletic and that you don't want a full-time DH...only to go out and sign a 31 year old, slow, injury-prone 1st baseman who will now clog up not only the bases but also the DH spot, because you already have a Gold Glove, MVP-caliber player at his position. Not only all of that, but you pay him $5.5 million...only a million less than the World Series MVP got...what...the...fuck...

Before, I was only slightly annoyed that that they let Matsui walk, because it seemed like they were gonna either resign Damn and let him DH a lot or simply leave the spot open to rest everyone. I liked Matsui, but at least they seemed like they had some decent plans. But this move is simply stupid, in my opinion. Nick Johnson gets on base, but for a DH/1B, his power numbers are pathetic. He had one of the lowest slugging percentages for qualifying 1st baseman, coming in behind such sluggers as Daniel Murphy and Jorge Cantu. To let Matsui go and replace him at the DH spot with this just makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

I guess the logic is that Johnson SHOULD at least be able to fill in at 1st (and maybe even 2nd/3rd) from time to time. Whereas, Matsui wasn't going anywhere near the outfield. I definitely think they overpaid for Johnson though. He's not worth $5.5 million. My guess is they're looking at him as a younger, slightly more flexible Matsui. Looks like no Matsui AND no Damon, now. Melky Cabrera just let out a huge sigh of relief.

But I agree. Johnson won't replace Matsui's production though. To me, that says even more that it's time for Cano to step up and be a #5 hitter. Jorge can't hold down that spot forever, and the Yanks let a 30 HR guy walk. Robbie needs to grow up and hit when it counts.
 
[quote name='dopa345']The Mariners have the AL West locked up in my opinion. I would be very worried if I were an Angels fan.[/QUOTE]

As an Angels fan, I'm not worried at all. We still have one of the best lineups in baseball, coupled with the best (imo) manager, and an owner that isn't afraid to spend money to win.

Remember, last year, the angels had tons of injuries to key players, and still pulled out the second best record in baseball.
 
You guys must be overjoyed to dump that moron. And hell, maybe you will even get something out of Silva. Could be one of those guys that goes to NL and turns it around.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']You must be thinking of another Johnson. Nick is left-handed. So, assuming Tex stays healthy, he'll see maybe 10 games at 1st.[/QUOTE]

Ah, that's right. I forgot he's a first baseman who actually throws left handed. It's been awhile since the Yanks had one of those. Yeah, without him being able to cover at least two positions, it's hard to defend the move. I guess they don't understand that having a guy who CAN play the field is worthless if you don't actually need him to. I'd rather have a DH who can also play the outfield, than a DH who can also play first. Maybe this is their way of showing players they won't be jerked around anymore...by overpaying different players? lol
 
So who will sign Damon?

Also yeah, I regret what I said about Lee. I think the Phillies will be in better postion to make the World Series again AFTER next year.
 
[quote name='Brownjohn']As an Angels fan, I'm not worried at all. We still have one of the best lineups in baseball, coupled with the best (imo) manager, and an owner that isn't afraid to spend money to win.

Remember, last year, the angels had tons of injuries to key players, and still pulled out the second best record in baseball.[/QUOTE]

One of the best lineups in baseball? Really? Vlad will continue to regress and Torii Hunter is a very overrated offensive player. Morales is a nice player but he can't carry that lineup. There's not enough offense at all to carry a mediocre pitching staff.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']You guys must be overjoyed to dump that moron. And hell, maybe you will even get something out of Silva. Could be one of those guys that goes to NL and turns it around.[/QUOTE]

Hell yeah. Now that he's gone maybe we can go after a center fielder.
 
[quote name='Chitown021']Awesome! Cubs unloaded Bradley on the M's for Silva! Good luck with that fuck chop Seattle![/QUOTE]

I love this trade because seattle has a history of signing players with attitude problems who turn in good seasons. See Jose Guillen. The beat life up here doesn't distract anyone.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']I love this trade because seattle has a history of signing players with attitude problems who turn in good seasons. See Jose Guillen. The beat life up here doesn't distract anyone.[/QUOTE]


That would be just our luck. He'll probably behave himself this season and go off for 45 homers and a .345 BA.
 
Stupid Braves traded Vasquez to the Yankees for Melky Cabrera. A few prospects involved as well.

I don't like it. Vasquez was their best pitcher last year, but they needed cap room and I guess they couldn't move Lowe or Kawakami with the dumbass contracts they gave them last year. :bomb:

And it seems like they could have gotten more for Vasquez than another fucking tweener that hits for neither average nor power.
 
Yeah, I am not happy about bringing back Vasquez. What the fuck is this? Turn back the clock to 2004? First Johnson. Now Vasquez. I guess the pressure is off to win the title since Cashman is being allowed to make these boneheaded moves.

Who's playing left now? The only way I'd be remotely ok with this deal is if it means a deal is in place for Johnny Damon, which would make Melky dead weight. Otherwise, I can't even begin to imagine what a "feast or famine" team this will be. Brett Gardner IS NOT a starting left fielder at the MLB level.

It's weird, I'm not even upset about this trade because of what the Yankees gave up (which really wasn't much). But moreso because of the potential it has to block them from actually getting a good pitcher (ie. Sheets or Duchscherer). Vasquez wasn't great with the Yankees at 27. What makes them think he'll be better at 33? Was there any logic in this deal?

EDIT - Only "logic" I can come up with is maybe Vasquez is just a stop gap for while (I'm assuming) Hughes starts the year in AAA. If the Yankees EVER want both Hughes and Joba in the rotation permanently, that would be the way to do it. It would be easier to tell a guy like Vasquez to go fuck off than a pitcher who actually has talent. But it seems they could have found a FA to fill the same role, without having to give away Melky.
 
Sorry, but I have to totally disagree. This was a great move. The Yankees needed a forth starter and another innings eater. Getting Vasquez for Melky, who is an average outfielder, at best, is much better than signing what is out there.

They were interested in Marquis, who signed with Washington. And thank God for that. Marquis in the AL was a disaster waiting to happen. He's way too much of a contact guy. And everyone else they were/are looking at has had health issues, guys like Sheets and Duchscherer. You sign one of them, and they get hurt, you're back in the same spot. The Yankees got very, very, very lucky that their lack of quality starts out of the forth and fifth spots did not bite them in the ass this year. They simply could not risk that again by plugging in health risks.

As far as Vasquez's fist go in New York went, people seem to forget he was a Cy Young candidate in the first half of the year. He had 10 wins and a 3.50 ERA. He developed arm problems, though, and pitched hurt the rest of the year. And even though they traded him for Randy Johnson after that, it was a move Cashman would have preferred not to make.

The last three years, he's thrown 200+ innings and struck out 200+ guys. I'll take that on my team any day of the week. Not to mention he had a 2.87 ERA last year. NL or not, that's a damn good ERA. Even if you want to add a full run to that, you're still looking at a guy with around a 4 ERA. That's gonna win you 15 games with the Yankees, considering the guy always makes 30+ starts.

Lastly, it's not even January, yet, so I would not be concerned about leftfield at all. Not one bit. First of all, it doesn't seem like the market for Damon is nearly as good as he had hoped. He might come crawling back and take the two years at whatever the Yankees offer. If not, there are a ton of options out there as a stopgap until next year, when it seems likely they will make an effort to sign Crawford.
 
Yankees did great to get all that for a piece of junk like Melky Cabrera.

If I know the Yankees, they're going to push for Holliday or Bay next with Damon as plan B.
 
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