CAGcast #322: Press X to CAGcast

[quote name='SeanAmI']You thought there was time travel until Ship explained what was going on.....

It was also obvious what was going to with the Vox revolution as Elizabeth mentioned the French Revolution several times.

Poker Night code please.[/QUOTE]

I believe there is both dimensional travel and dimensional time travel. At times, you are going to another dimension that has not hit your point in time yet (or after). In my mind that is a form of time travel, just not the conventional form. I should have been clearer.

Conventional form involves a Delorean
 
Disagree with 80% of the Infinite talk. Anyway, OPINIONS. I'm not gonna badger the guys for not liking what I liked.
 
It was tough listening to the Infinite spoiler discussion. Wombat may have very well understood the plot and the themes that were explored but this did certainly did not come across to those of us listening. I was particularly disappointed in how dismissive Cheapy was in general. I do not think he pays much attention to detail which lead him to become confused and ultimately annoyed by the story.

So if Infinite was a summer popcorn flick, what game would you consider to be more then that? What game had you sitting back in amazement once the credits rolled?
 
[quote name='Wombat']I am about 99% sure you didn't understand a word I said. Also I am about 75% sure you are a racist.[/QUOTE]

If that's what you took away from that, then I am 100% sure that you didn't understand what I said. It is impossible to talk about any racially charged issue with people like you because you retreat into your shell like a turtle and just say "Oh, you're a racist, bleh." Not a single thing I said was racist. This is exactly what I was talking about. People like you are not pro-equality. My statements were very concisely saying that I am for 100% equality for all races. People like you aren't happy with that, though. So in order to not be a racist I need to treat every single thing regarding African Americans with kid gloves? That isn't equality; it just isn't. I'm not going to go down the road of "Watch out or you'll lose a listener!" (No one cares, obviously), but you are just simply an oxygen thief.
 
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[quote name='Das_Regal']

Imagine if the opposite was true, and all the men were Edward Cullen looking pretty boys with monumental penises barely contained by tight leather pants. Would you want to play as one of these characters? Wouldn't you much rather feel like a badass by playing someone of your gender in a cool costume who exists as more than eye candy?[/QUOTE]

I've got Cho Aniki games on my Vita, so I'm pretty okay with whatever characters look like.
 
[quote name='K_G']Infinite ending discussion

Personally, I thought the vigors were the thing out of place in the story and that it seemed like, the developer said...'well, if we have bioshock on the front cover, I guess we need some game mechanism for the player to set enemies on fire'. I think the infinite story would have made more sense without them. The development of plasmids made sense in the context of world of bioshock 1 and 2 (Fontaine trying to subvert/overthrow Ryan...or at a minimum, they go out of their way to explain how they came to be)...The vigors make much less sense in the world of infinite...it isn't like the vox populi are the ones who developed the vigors....and they are dumped into the player's lap with pretty much no explanation at all.[/QUOTE]

Most the the 'unanswered questions' are answered in Voxophones.

In one Voxophone you hear Fink talk about how he used tears to spy on a Geneticist that was creating some sort of genetic modifications. They don't come right out and say it but that Geneticist was obviously Brigid Tenenbaum, and he was watching her create Plasmids and then he used her idea to create Vigors.

In another Voxophone he talks about seeing a man & machine combined together (Big Daddy) that inspired him the create the Handyman and Songbird.

And if it was Rapture he was stealing ideas from it would also explain how Columbia had Automated Turrets and Vending Machines (both very similar to the ones Rapture used) and how they were able to listen to music that wasn't recorded until the 1940-50s (around the time Tenenbaum created Plasmids), and all the other advanced technology they had in 1912.
 
[quote name='ZombiesWorld']Most the the 'unanswered questions' are answered in Voxophones.

In one Voxophone you hear Fink talk about how he used tears to spy on a Geneticist that was creating some sort of genetic modifications. They don't come right out and say it but that Geneticist was obviously Brigid Tenenbaum, and he was watching her create Plasmids and then he used her idea to create Vigors.

In another Voxophone he talks about seeing a man & machine combined together (Big Daddy) that inspired him the create the Handyman and Songbird.

And if it was Rapture he was stealing ideas from it would also explain how Columbia had Automated Turrets and Vending Machines (both very similar to the ones Rapture used) and how they were able to listen to music that wasn't recorded until the 1940-50s (around the time Tenenbaum created Plasmids), and all the other advanced technology they had in 1912.
[/QUOTE]

It's not the how that is unexplained, it's the why. Why would vigors exist and be mass produced when hardly anyone used them. I know how that stuff happened into being, but the game mechanics aren't worked into the plot as cleanly as BioShock.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']It's not the how that is unexplained, it's the why. Why would vigors exist and be mass produced when hardly anyone used them. I know how that stuff happened into being, but the game mechanics aren't worked into the plot as cleanly as BioShock.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I like that they explained them, but they don't feel nearly as integral as in Rapture. It was also interesting that they were mass producing them the way that they were, yet it didn't seem as though that many people were actually using them.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']It's not the how that is unexplained, it's the why. Why would vigors exist and be mass produced when hardly anyone used them. I know how that stuff happened into being, but the game mechanics aren't worked into the plot as cleanly as BioShock.[/QUOTE]

Hardly anyone used them because they hadn't been released to the public yet. They made that clear at the beginning of the game. They had just announced them and was advertising them at the Fair.
 
[quote name='ZombiesWorld']Hardly anyone used them because they hadn't been released to the public yet. They made that clear at the beginning of the game. They had just announced them and was advertising them at the Fair.[/QUOTE]

I actually missed that. I really appreciate that about this game: nearly any answer is in there, you just have to look for it sometimes.
 
[quote name='ZombiesWorld']Hardly anyone used them because they hadn't been released to the public yet. They made that clear at the beginning of the game. They had just announced them and was advertising them at the Fair.[/QUOTE]Which is why there were salts all over the world, vigors scattered throughout, and doors that were made to be opened with Shock Jockey that were clearly constructed awhile ago.

(AKA I'm pretty sure you're wrong about that. The claim that they were just being released was never explicitly made at start.)

And if they haven't been released to the public yet... Vigor vending machines anyone? They were everywhere throughout the game. Tet for some reason our enemies never bothered to walk up to a machine and buy one. You'd think they'd at least give the Policemen Shock Jockey.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I believe there is both dimensional travel and dimensional time travel. At times, you are going to another dimension that has not hit your point in time yet (or after). In my mind that is a form of time travel, just not the conventional form.[/QUOTE]

This is clearly the case since you're hearing God Only Knows and Girls Just Wanna Have Fun in 1912 Columbia right off the bat. I'm not sure why people are making this a point of contention, but maybe I'm just dense.

I enjoyed the spoilercast just because I wanted to hear what you guys thought about the game. I do agree though that Cheapy could've been a little more invested in the discussion, and Wombat could've spent less time talking about his ideas on how to make it a "better" game. Shipwreck hit the nail on the head though in that when a game can cram this many big concepts into it, deliver a fun experience and compelling story and characters, and bring about in depth discussions like this, it qualifies as a success. If only most AAA games took risks like this.

I'd love a Poker Night 2 code.
 
[quote name='ZombiesWorld']Hardly anyone used them because they hadn't been released to the public yet. They made that clear at the beginning of the game. They had just announced them and was advertising them at the Fair.[/QUOTE]

I've played through that section twice and never got the impression that they weren't publicly available. The two they were showing were "new", but the vigors and salts were already everywhere in Columbia.
 
Some plot holes are to be expected from any game, but I think Bioshock was especially full of them. When you start invoking quantum mechanics, things get messy.

Oh, and I'd like to enter for the Poker Night 2 Code Thing.
 
[quote name='Zaku77']If that's what you took away from that, then I am 100% sure that you didn't understand what I said. It is impossible to talk about any racially charged issue with people like you because you retreat into your shell like a turtle and just say "Oh, you're a racist, bleh." Not a single thing I said was racist. This is exactly what I was talking about. People like you are not pro-equality. My statements were very concisely saying that I am for 100% equality for all races. People like you aren't happy with that, though. So in order to not be a racist I need to treat every single thing regarding African Americans with kid gloves? That isn't equality; it just isn't. I'm not going to go down the road of "Watch out or you'll lose a listener!" (No one cares, obviously), but you are just simply an oxygen thief.[/QUOTE]

Dude, you hit the nail on the head and it is an argument you can never win with certain people. Some people are so afraid of being 'racist' that they just can't treat everyone equally and are the first to throw out the racist accusation because they don't understand.
 
[quote name='Nathan_Sama']RE: Piracy
Oh bull, as if you never pirated anything before, besides, I watch the shows when they are posted to youtube or dailymotion. Can't exactly pirate something that I'm streaming can I?
[/QUOTE]

Uhm, since when is streaming content not pirating? Just because you don't download it doesn't mean anything.... If you are viewing something without paying, it is stealing, unless it is of course posted for free by the creators.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']I've played through that section twice and never got the impression that they weren't publicly available. The two they were showing were "new", but the vigors and salts were already everywhere in Columbia.[/QUOTE]
That's a still a pretty big plot-hole to me. One of the few I've seen without a strong explanation. Another gameplay-meets-setting issue is the shield that Booker used. The Luteces gave it to him, but I didn't find any reason why it was unique to Booker.

Via Twitter
[quote name='Wombat']@oneletter worst part, I thought I was being complimentary[/QUOTE]
You did say that you enjoyed the game. I felt that your attempts to rewrite the plot to pursue some other haf-baked* themes comes across as a heavy criticism of the story. I say half-baked in the sense that your suggestions weren't very fleshed out.

[quote name='Wombat']@shipwreck @LikChan @Wario64 I think I missed 6. Also if that's where the "answers" are that is a short coming of the game, not us.[/QUOTE]
I really enjoyed filling in the gaps with the Voxophones. I found it much more appealing than reading book excerpts in Skyrim or Dishonored. How would you have preferred that Infinite add in necessary details?

[quote name='itachiitachi']There is a difference between good Scifi movies and the crap movies that are on the Scify network. Bioshock is bad Scifi.[/QUOTE]
[quote name='itachiitachi']That's because almost every story where you go jumping around the multiverse halfway through end up losing focus on the original plot and the consequences of actions losing meaning.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like you were immediately put-off by the and multi-verse aspects of Infinite. I understand your complaint about the end-game paradox, and felt that it was addressed. I feel that most of the of the subplots and consequences of actions were central to the redemption theme and tied in nicely with the multi-verse mechanism.
Infinite is far from a perfect story, but deserves a lot more credit than you're giving it.
 
[quote name='Zaku77']If that's what you took away from that, then I am 100% sure that you didn't understand what I said. It is impossible to talk about any racially charged issue with people like you because you retreat into your shell like a turtle and just say "Oh, you're a racist, bleh." Not a single thing I said was racist. This is exactly what I was talking about. People like you are not pro-equality. My statements were very concisely saying that I am for 100% equality for all races. People like you aren't happy with that, though. So in order to not be a racist I need to treat every single thing regarding African Americans with kid gloves? That isn't equality; it just isn't. I'm not going to go down the road of "Watch out or you'll lose a listener!" (No one cares, obviously), but you are just simply an oxygen thief.[/QUOTE]

Fist off I thought the 75% thing would tip off that I was making a joke. Also I have never stolen Oxygen, I buy it in cans. My go to brand is Perriair.
 
[quote name='Das_Regal']

The Dragon's Crown Controversy:

Having a woman with a huge chest isn't a huge deal on the whole, but look at the other female offerings available if you want to understand why some people are upset with the decision. The only women that the game allows us to play are sexualized in a blatant over the top fashion. Imagine if the opposite was true, and all the men were Edward Cullen looking pretty boys with monumental penises barely contained by tight leather pants. Would you want to play as one of these characters? Wouldn't you much rather feel like a badass by playing someone of your gender in a cool costume who exists as more than eye candy?

Women have a hard time finding avatars that they can relate with in a lot of games. Many don't even offer female playable characters, and it sucks.

We should want our fellow gamers, whether they are women or men, to be able to customize their experience into something they enjoy the way we can and do. It's good for the industry and it's good for us.

God knows enough men bitch about wanting a "gamer girlfriend." Wanting women to partake in your hobby while also wanting it to stay an arena that primarily caters to dudes is contradictory.[/QUOTE]

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Men in video games have been just as hypersexualized as the women. The hyper sexualization of a man is not an overly large penis, a large penis is not aesthetically pleasing to the majority of people no matter how much pornography tells you so, that does not compare to overly large breasts. Large muscle mass and unrealistically low body fat is the male versions of big breasts, and that has been the case and will be.

Video games are at best a mechanism to escape reality, not art, not something profound, and so the characters are unrealistic. This false outrage (a majority by psuedo intellectual males may I add) about how women are not portrayed fairly in video games is much ado about nothing. The Bottom line is most video games are made to attract the most buyers to turn the most profit, if the target audience of video games is males 15-35 then the company, from the president down to the programmers and the artists, try to tap into what they feel is what would be most appealing to them and put that in the game. If its sells their previous thoughts are confirmed, if it doesn't then they try something else. This is the same type of outrage that people have when Ralph Lauren ads are "too white" when all the company is trying to do is to cater to its "white" audience who buy the majority of its clothes. In the end the collective voices of our wallets with ring more true and have a more substantial impact on future projects than a video game "journalist's" blog entry or tweet.
 
[quote name='Wombat']Fist off I thought the 75% thing would tip off that I was making a joke. Also I have never stolen Oxygen, I buy it in cans. My go to brand is Perriair.[/QUOTE]

Well, I didn't see it as a joke, and I still don't think it looks like one. That's the thing with text on the internet, subtlety and sarcasm are so easily lost. You were also coming from the deficit of the joke not being funny, of course. :3
 
[quote name='spid']I enjoyed the Bioshock discussion even though I have not played any of the games. Bioshock 1 did not appeal to me so I have sort of written off the franchise. I might have enjoyed Bioshock: Infinite based on the spoilers discussions I have listened to.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'd suggest you give it a try. I had never played Bioshock 1/2 before Infinite. I don't really go for the survival horror type thing which is what those seemed like to me. Bioshock Infinite is definitely not that type of game. But just last night I started up the first Bioshock as I figured it was finally time to play that. Infinite is more wide open (both in that you are up in the clouds and in that you can travel around much more freely) and I really liked the gameplay much better compared to what I've seen so far in Bioshock. I've also been pretty limited in what I can do in Bioshock by the lack of weapons/ammo (which I think someone else mentioned as a reason they didn't like it). It seems to have gotten better towards the end of my 2-3 hours last night, but I know I never had that issue in Infinite - there is plenty of "trash can" ammo (in addition to the sandwiches ;)). I can understand the appeal of limited resources in a game like this to some people - but as I said before I'm not fond of the survival horror thing which that would definitely be a key part of.

A lot of people look back fondly on Bioshock and compare Infinite to that, of course, since the original Bioshock was a landmark game that most people played a long time ago. But as with most things, if you play it the other way around you would probably like Infinite better and, like me, compare the first one unfavorably to it. Granted I'm only 2 hours in to Bioshock - but it also seems like the story is much more grand and in-depth in Infinite compared to the original. I can definitely see that they were trying, at least, to go way beyond the original in that regard - though like Shipwreck I kind of have mixed feelings about the result. I also thought it fell apart a little when
all the tear stuff came into play
. But at least they were trying for something big there and I given them credit for that.

[quote name='shipwreck']It's not the how that is unexplained, it's the why. Why would vigors exist and be mass produced when hardly anyone used them. I know how that stuff happened into being, but the game mechanics aren't worked into the plot as cleanly as BioShock.[/QUOTE]

OK, I just have to interject here concerning plasmids and the first Bioshock. While the plasmids do seem more integral to the society in Rapture, there is a pretty massive fucking plot hole (or really just nonsense) right up front in that game. The first time my character finds this gigantic needle (with the Electro plasmid) he immediately jabs it into his arm. How the hell does he know how to do that? That is totally not explained and was a big WTF moment for me. You just crash landed and ended up in this strange place and the first thing you do is jab a giant needle into your arm? Whaaa? The Vigors are at least introduced to your character in Infinite in a way that makes more sense. Their (lack of) use by other characters may not, but there you go - just something that stuck me right away as a newbie to the original Bioshock.
 
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[quote name='itachiitachi']There is a difference between good Scifi movies and the crap movies that are on the Scify network. Bioshock is bad Scifi.

I'm guessing you didn't get it since you didn't understand the criticism and think timetravel = Paradox.
going back in time before you where born and basically killing your dad = Paradox.(And to clarify for people who are to simple to understand it other wise, Comstock turned Anna into Elizabeth, no Comstock = no Elizabeth.)
[/QUOTE]

:wall: No I completely understand that paradox doesn't equal time travel I was just using it as an example. What I was getting at is that if I can suspense belief on things that are impossible, or non existent, like: time travel, travel to alt dimensions, wizards, vampires, and ghost just to be entertained I'm not going to fuss too much about a paradox.
As I said before I get it; if Elizabeth never happened then how did they kill Booker/Comstock. Well yeah in Back to the Future if Marty would have broken his parents up he would have never been born there for never traveling back and stopping them. PLOT HOLE AND PARADOX!!!! I still enjoyed the movie. This isn't a misunderstanding on my part I got what you were saying, but again it's a work of fiction.

How about this... Obviously Comstock is in Booker someplace and came to be after the baptism. Maybe he still becomes Comstock in the non baptized dimension, but at some later time maybe after Anna mother dies. If you buy the idea that there are infinite universe with infinite possibilities than this could happen. The fact that Comstock is Booker kind of ties that up. If Booker would have killed a baby Comstock in is crib than the even remote possibility of an Elizabeth would have died. Since you still have a time line with Booker there is still a chance Comstock comes out. Not all the Elizabeth's "died" after the drowning one was still on screen it was just implied she "died".


[quote name='itachiitachi']That's because almost every story where you go jumping around the multiverse halfway through end up losing focus on the original plot and the consequences of actions losing meaning.[/QUOTE]

Difference of opinion here. For me it added to the story and everyone had their opinion and I don't begrudge anyone for what they like. My issue that I brought up, and others after me, is that Wombat got stuck on a subplot that resolved its self. Cheapy just checked out because of the Alt dimensions etc., and in my opinion, I think he missed out because of a plot device . I don't care for avocado, but I like a good California roll.
 
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[quote name='jstew9']I honestly cannot believe I'm getting ready to type this but: bit vulgar on the opening song this week Cheapy. I don't mind F-bombs (its an adult show) but really it put me off starting off the show with that song. Mayhap because I started listening just after dropping my daughter off at school.
[/QUOTE]

I too must voice my disappointment. I feel it definitely should have been Cheapy's "Ass & Tetris You Forgot Poland" chiptune mix of this song. My wife often rocks this version in the van in the pickup line at school...before the kids get in of course. ;)

Also, I'd like to request more Cheapy imitations per show. I caused a minor scene in the parking lot at work because I couldn't stop guffawing about "Black Man Cheapy". It's right up there with "Jamaican Cheapy". I'd love to hear some other Cheap-onalities.

Oh and I'd love a 360 poker night code if you're so inclined.
 
I'm from Detroit and Detroit techno gets much more vulgar then the song that Cheapy played to open the show. I need to send Cheapy a DJ Assault mixtape from when I was in high school.

I enjoyed the discussion about Bioshock. Most reviews and discussions were sucking off Ken Levine and the Bioshock team so when I finally played and beat the game, the hype left me more disappointing by the story then I might have been otherwise. I think this is why Wombat was so disappointed in a game he admittedly thought was pretty good beyond the story. Even the games most strident defenders would have to agree that the Vigors being widely available yet only being used by Booker is ludicrous at best.

I'd like a Poker code
 
[quote name='davucini']A bunch of pictures of burly dudes.[/QUOTE]

Things like this are more attributed to the whole "male power fantasy" thing, unless your suggesting sexualizing male characters for a predominantly hetero male audience is an intentional marketing ploy? Because it's not. That's why the two things aren't the same.
 
I haven't read through this whole thread, but in regards to vigors it is never really explained where they came from, or rather how they're made. It is implied (or said specifically, I don't recall) that the idea for vigors, like many items came from viewing another world, which would be Rapture and it's plasmids, but this doesn't explain how they were actually created in Columbia, presuming they weren't just out-right taken from another world.
This is in contrast to the first Bioshock where plasmids clearly fit into the gene splicing theme.
I don't really think it's a negative though that their existence is clearly explained, but I can understand why some people would expect that level of detail.

As for enemies using vigors, that seems odd to focus on though as there weren't many splicers that used plasmids either (iirc) and it would have made a lot more sense for them to have those powers then anyone in Columbia.

I'd also be interested in seeing all the different versions of this game, you can even look at all the trailers and previews over the past few years and even in those small clips a lot has changed.
 
[quote name='Covnam']

As for enemies using vigors, that seems odd to focus on though as there weren't many splicers that used plasmids either (iirc) and it would have made a lot more sense for them to have those powers then anyone in Columbia.
[/QUOTE]

I was going to point out the same thing but I figured I wasn't far enough into Bioshock to be sure of that. But for sure, none of the enemies in the first area (up to the first trophy-giving boss) has used them whereas my newbie character who didn't even know what they were an hour before is blasting splicers all over the place ;). I figured maybe there was a story reason that I hadn't found out yet about why they couldn't use them (maybe too corrupted or whatever). But in any case, the gameplay is similar between the games in that regard - enemies either melee or shoot at you but don't use "powers" in whatever form the game wants to call them.
 
This was the only part of Infinite I wanted to hear them talk about, rest is just opinion and we all have one

When they went back to Rapture, Booker could use the Batheyspeheres, is he related to Jack from Bioshock 1? Are the little sisters really versions of Elizabeth that found there way through the light houses? There were so many things I thought about suring that small section, I just wondered what other people thought.
 
[quote name='Kfoster1979']:wall: No I completely understand that paradox doesn't equal time travel I was just using it as an example. What I was getting at is that if I can suspense belief on things that are impossible, or non existent, like: time travel, travel to alt dimensions, wizards, vampires, and ghost just to be entertained I'm not going to fuss too much about a paradox. [/QUOTE]
And What I was getting at is that I have no problem suspending disbelief.
Being a work of fiction doesn't mean it's somehow ok to throw away all the premisses of your universe mid story and make up a bunch of new rules.
Lord of the rings is fiction, doesn't mean it wouldn't have sucked if halfway through the movie they all got into giant mech suits to fight their way to mordor where they then combined into on super mech.

[quote name='Kfoster1979']
As I said before I get it; if Elizabeth never happened then how did they kill Booker/Comstock. Well yeah in Back to the Future if Marty would have broken his parents up he would have never been born there for never traveling back and stopping them. PLOT HOLE AND PARADOX!!!! I still enjoyed the movie. This isn't a misunderstanding on my part I got what you were saying, but again it's a work of fiction.
[/QUOTE]
I'm not really concerned if my comedy movie has a time paradox, if you are trying to have someone take your story seriously though your kind of held to higher standards.
[quote name='Kfoster1979']
How about this... Obviously Comstock is in Booker someplace and came to be after the baptism. Maybe he still becomes Comstock in the non baptized dimension, but at some later time maybe after Anna mother dies. If you buy the idea that there are infinite universe with infinite possibilities than this could happen. The fact that Comstock is Booker kind of ties that up. If Booker would have killed a baby Comstock in is crib than the even remote possibility of an Elizabeth would have died. Since you still have a time line with Booker there is still a chance Comstock comes out. Not all the Elizabeth's "died" after the drowning one was still on screen it was just implied she "died".
[/QUOTE]
Well the whole point was to kill all the Comstocks, so their should be no chance that comstocks comes out.
Of course with the inifinite universe's bullshit there should also be good Comstocks and Bad Bookers so one of the Comstocks should have gone back in time to kill every Booker also.
When you introduce Infinite universe to your story you usually also introduce Infinite inconsistencies.



[quote name='Kfoster1979']
Difference of opinion here. For me it added to the story and everyone had their opinion and I don't begrudge anyone for what they like. My issue that I brought up, and others after me, is that Wombat got stuck on a subplot that resolved its self. Cheapy just checked out becuse of the Alt dimensions etc., and in my opinion, I think he missed out becuse of that plot devie. I dont care for avocado, but I like a good California roll.[/QUOTE]
Replace avocado with ipecac syrup and you'll have a better comparison.

[quote name='Covnam']
As for enemies using vigors, that seems odd to focus on though as there weren't many splicers that used plasmids either (iirc) and it would have made a lot more sense for them to have those powers then anyone in Columbia.
[/QUOTE]
I'd think soldiers fighting for their lives would be more likely to want super powers than people who are insane.
[quote name='volt1up']Things like this are more attributed to the whole "male power fantasy" thing, unless your suggesting sexualizing male characters for a predominantly hetero male audience is an intentional marketing ploy? Because it's not. That's why the two things aren't the same.[/QUOTE]
Does the reasoning behind hyper sexualizing male characters matter? Then wouldn't being a hot chick with giant boobs that don't cause back pain or way you down be a fantasy of many females?
 
Avoiding the controversies, I have a plea to Wombat: please use your game powers for a non-fighting DC game that isn't Lego.

Allow me to explain. I'm kinda "meh" on Injustice. What I really, REALLY want to see is Justice League Heroes done right (ala like Marvel Ultimate Alliance). JLH was so disappointing, but the X-men Legends and MUA games were so good that I would kill to see a Justice League game like that will lots of characters that could be swapped in and out and alt costumes.

I figure you can make this happen, Wombat. I mean, we have you to thank for Batman: Arkham Asylum/ City, after all. Come on, we know it wasn't a coincidence that you described the ultimate Batman game being like Splinter Cell - and only a couple years later, we have the Arkham games. Use whatever voodoo you do to get some company to make a good squad based DC Game, please!

Of course, I'd settle for a Poker Night 2 code in the meantime. *coughunabashedbeggingcough*
 
@Cheapy and Wombat:

The linked list contains the "so called" top 50 fine dining restaurants in the world. Two in the top 25 are located in Tokyo and two in the top 10 are in the NYC. Have either of you guys dined at any of these places and, if so, what was the experience like??

http://www.theworlds50best.com/list/1-50-winners/#t1-50

@Shipwreck

You'll always have Skyline but it'll never make the list. Have you dined at Bootsy's?

PS: Wombat "CAGcast or nothin"...really?
 
[quote name='volt1up']Things like this are more attributed to the whole "male power fantasy" thing, unless your suggesting sexualizing male characters for a predominantly hetero male audience is an intentional marketing ploy? Because it's not. That's why the two things aren't the same.[/QUOTE]

First thank you for summarizing my post into a cute one liner, great way to devalue my opinion. I would like to tell you I didn't appreciate that at all. You could have shortened my post when hitting quote reply to take out the picture but your tried some type of juvenile attempt to show how your thoughts are superior to mine. You type so definitively about the human psyche and the motives of people when it is not an exact science. The definition of "sexualize" is also one open to interpretation. Webster's defines it as ": to make sexual : endow with a sexual character or cast." So in my opinion putting big tits on a chick and putting big muscles on a dude both can be included as an example of that definition.

My point was and is both male and females in video-game are unrealistic examples of what people look like. Arguing that the unrealistic physical male form is "sexualization" or "male power fantasy" is an argument of semantics, not of the issue at hand. What my opinion was about was the fundamental topic of unrealistic body forms which encompasses both your "sexualizing" and your "male power fantasy." The unrealistic body forms of the males are, in fact, intentional to appeal to the demographic. That primal emotion dates back to before the times of Gilgamesh. Outrage for one side of the same thing, while not acknowledging a more grand issue( if you want to call it an issue) is absurd.

Im not cutting branches, I am trying to uproot the tree.
 
Wow you discuss Bioshock Infinite and the comments keep piling in.

Regarding the spoilercast,
I gotta say right off the bat Wombat seemed clueless as to the racial overtone elements. He starts off saying he has no problem killing all these people because he assumes they are all racist. Then in the game when the tide turns and the Vox start winning, you see that the Vox are killing the people for this same assumption and Wombat wonders "where the racism aspects went".

That's the whole idea behind the interracial couple and gunsmith scenes. The founders stage an interracial couple assault, but the Vox do the same thing when they kill the Asian gunsmith for being with a white woman. There's a reason why Fitzroy tries to murder a white kid. Power corrupts and racial tensions help it fester.


Also as Wombat eloquently put it, the story does involve time travel. Young Elizabeth sends you into the future so Songbird can't kill you. Old Elizabeth sends you back. And "All Elizabeths" send you back to drown you. Tears may peek into the future to steal plasmids from Rapture or music from "our time", but the constants keep the universe timelines synced in parallel. So when Elizabeth time shifts you several times at the end of the game, that is time travel.


All and all I think the story was a letdown as it tried too hard to build up the expectations of a twist ending and proclaim itself clever for turning the video game mechanic of people using different powers / weapons as stating that was each its own universe; with all governed by a set of fixed "constant" plot points.

It could have been done better but it liked to establish rules and then contradict them -- infinite possibilities exist except when everything always happens the same constant way, salts being all over Columbia yet nobody really using them, a timeline existing for the sole purpose of negating itself, the forgiveness of original sin by baptism used to justify apocalypse sin.

Also it's hard to say a story is great and then say the CAGcast folks just didn't understand it -- if it's not presented clearly, then it's clear the writing is not as good as you want it to be.


If it's not too late, please put me in the longshot winning a Poker Night 2 code for Xbox.
 
Wombat, so let me tell you about my newly founded addiction to video game poker.

Couple of weeks ago I picked the XBLA poker game Full House Poker thanks to a sale that I saw on CAG and the addiction set in instantly. At first I eased myself in and played with bots, soon there after I decided to play against other over live and loved it.

Every week when I got off of work around midnight I would come home, kiss my wife goodnight and stay up to 3-4 in the morning playing the game and listening to podcasts. I did that for a week straight.

Sure the game is wonky in spots but I love the chessyness. I love the stupid avatars making dumb chip tricks, I love the idiots that go all-in, every single hand. I even like the way the game sorta cheats by having 3-of-a-kinds on 3 straight hands on the river.

So in conclusion, I NEED that code for the Telltale poker game. Thank you.
 
Wombat, I live out in the country, in the Midwest. People here do not know what podcasts are. I tell them, but they don't care. Every time I bring up a podcast to my friends, family, or anyone, they get really annoyed. There's not much I can do. I support the show, and a lot of other gaming podcasts, but I can't really spread the word living in the middle of nowhere!

If, for some miraculous reason, you still have a code for Poker Night 2, I would graciously accept it. If not, that's okay too. Thanks for the show!
 
Your Injustice talk and the insane $35 TRU sale pushed me off the fence. What a great game. From here on out I'm getting all my buying advice from Tai. Get that kid on Top Analyst, stat!

Not sure if the contest was first-come, but I'd love to give Poker Night 2 a try.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']

Does the reasoning behind hyper sexualizing male characters matter? [/QUOTE]

Yes? Especially since that isn't what going on there. It's not handsome dudes for the sake of sexualizing dudes, it's big powerful burly dudes for the sake of playing as a big powerful character.
 
Great cast. Talk of the dc characters brings back so many memories. growing up in the 70's. I liked Marvel and Dc comics but When I would purchased a Dc comic book it was only like 17 pages.

I swear it was like getting ripped off because marvel was selling books (I think 30 plus pages for the same price.) Yeah there were more ads but at the time it really seemed like more bang for the buck.

Dc books seemed stingy. I never understood why. Also I loved captian Marvel growing up but it was only recently I found out what shazam meant. LOL




S The wisdom of Solomon;
H The strength of Hercules;
A The stamina of Atlas;
Z The power of Zeus;
A The courage of Achilles;
M The speed of Mercury.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoOU1YQ_xkQ

How far have we come?

Here is the 1977 spiderman tv series intro. All the kids love him even if he had a poor mans web shooter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JUcktiQxC9Q
 
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I would like a code please,

More round table talks would be great, some of my favorite episodes are these. You all played injustice, perhaps you could do it on this game?

Great show as usual, thank you
 
Hey guys, allow me to answer some of the questions or misunderstandings you has about Bioshock Infinite. WARNING, A NUMBER OF SPOILERS ON THE GAME WILL FOLLOW!

Firstly, the woman who recognized Elizabeth as Anna was in fact an assassin who was looking for Elizabeth. She wanted to confirm it was Liz and thus prompted Liz to state her name by asking her if she was "Anabelle", a name that she coincidentally chose with no actual knowledge of who she really was. This is explained in a Voxophone you can find.

I feel that the racism was dropped abruptly, I think the reason it was included to show how extremist the "patriotic" themes of the early 1900's were in Columbia. You could even go to the brotherhood that praised John Wilkes Booth and Demonized Abe Lincoln.

Lady Comstock's ghost was not in fact her ghost, but a bastardization of her "ghost" through Comstock using Elizabeth's power to fabricate a ghost-like entity that was also warped by Elizabeth's perception of Lady Comstock, whom she hated for locking her up. And Lady Comstock hated Elizabeth because she thought that Elizabeth was the bastard Child of Comstock and the Lutece woman.

The Luteces were in fact not twins, but the same person, though because they existed within different dimensions, one was able to be a female whilst the other was a male. They eventually discovered how to transcend the dimensions and therefore meet together and eventually worked for Comtsock.

The reason Comstock had to be the same person as Booker is to explain why he wanted to take Elizabeth: by traveling through tears with the help of the Luteces, the traveling took a toll on his body and made his body age more quickly and become infertile. As a result, he could not have a child, but only wanted a descendant of his blood to carry on his legacy. That is why he wanted Anna specifically.

The ending, with the child, is to insinuate that Booker went through with the baptism timeline and got drowned only. This does not eliminate the timeline in which he walks away from the Baptism and has Anna, so it's a way of showing that the timeline in which he keeps Anna still exists.

Elizabeth has her powers because her body has remnants in multiple dimensions. Her pinkie is left in one while she exists in another. A voxophone explains that this is why she has her powers, according to the female Lutece.

Any other questions, feel free to ask! I got really sucked into the universe.
 
[quote name='volt1up']Yes? Especially since that isn't what going on there. It's not handsome dudes for the sake of sexualizing dudes, it's big powerful burly dudes for the sake of playing as a big powerful character.[/QUOTE]
So then as long as Hyper sexualized female characters are aimed at females it's ok.
 
May 21st: New Xbox reveal via live streaming on your 360. Immediately followed by Announcement of EOL Server Shutdown of the current Xbox Live infrastructure. Viva la Progress!!!
 
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels a little off about Bioshock Infinite. I want to really like it but I'm having a hard time getting into it. I think my biggest problem, which makes me wonder if this is "user error" since it wasn't mentioned on the CAGcast, is the save system that hates the player. The checkpoints are waaaay to spread out. Sometimes I only have 20 minutes to play and a couple of times, I've lost all 20 minutes due to the crappy save system. Sometimes, and GOD FORBID, I like to play a section over to see how I can do better or different. I just don't understand why game designers feel this sick need to PUNISH the gamer for having other obligations in life. It's just stupid and insulting. I think that's the main reason I haven't finished the game yet. I just don't want to play it because I'm nervous I'll lose a bunch of progress.

Maybe I was spoiled by the Tomb Raider save system. That was brilliant. I don't mind losing a bit of progress along the story, it's losing the progress of collectibles that's annoying. Tomb Raider was specifically designed to be absolutely certain you would never have to re-find a collectible. Brilliant.

I will be delighted when Wombat picks me to receive Poker Night 2. I'll even pretend I like that recent picture of him in a beret/gigantic yamaka.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']So then as long as Hyper sexualized female characters are aimed at females it's ok.[/QUOTE]It's not OK that women are culturally programmed to see value as attraction in entities they identify with/as, just as it's not OK that men are similarly programmed to recognize strength as value.

This is the problem of gender conformity.
 
[quote name='Das_Regal']It's not OK that women are culturally programmed to see value as attraction in entities they identify with/as, just as it's not OK that men are similarly programmed to recognize strength as value.

This is the problem of gender conformity.[/QUOTE]
Well Volt1up seems to disagree with you then.
 
Note wrecktum662 that you can use the Advanced Message Post to mark text as spoilers or use [SPOILER ] remove the spaces in-between the brackets[/ SPOILER]

That said, regarding your prior post
I think on the whole, the CAGcast folks understood what was going on: multiple universes, time travel, Booker being Comstock, Booker dying to prevent Comstock's birth, etc.

They just realized some of the things are clumsily handled so that a game mechanic or twist can be implemented.

Also two of them have kids, so its probably asking a bit much for them to understand everything or have time to play the game long stretches and really get immersed.

I did find it funny towards the end of the spoilercast that they mentioned a desire for a simpler story and basically described the story of Bioshock 2 (which apparently everyone but me hated).
 
Finished infinite this morning...not my type of game, but still interesting. I think the player one podcast spoiler show is a good one to listen to as a bit of a contrast to the cagcast. It points out that infinite's effect on you might depend on what you bring to the game. Since Wombat and crew brought something else to the game it just didn't have the same effect.
 
[quote name='oxidative']I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels a little off about Bioshock Infinite. I want to really like it but I'm having a hard time getting into it. I think my biggest problem, which makes me wonder if this is "user error" since it wasn't mentioned on the CAGcast, is the save system that hates the player. The checkpoints are waaaay to spread out. Sometimes I only have 20 minutes to play and a couple of times, I've lost all 20 minutes due to the crappy save system. Sometimes, and GOD FORBID, I like to play a section over to see how I can do better or different. I just don't understand why game designers feel this sick need to PUNISH the gamer for having other obligations in life. It's just stupid and insulting. I think that's the main reason I haven't finished the game yet. I just don't want to play it because I'm nervous I'll lose a bunch of progress.

Maybe I was spoiled by the Tomb Raider save system. That was brilliant. I don't mind losing a bit of progress along the story, it's losing the progress of collectibles that's annoying. Tomb Raider was specifically designed to be absolutely certain you would never have to re-find a collectible. Brilliant.

I will be delighted when Wombat picks me to receive Poker Night 2. I'll even pretend I like that recent picture of him in a beret/gigantic yamaka.[/QUOTE]

I'm by no means a pro or even decent player and I don't even remember how the Bioshock Infinite checkpoint system worked - and I just played it last week. My point is that I don't ever remember it being an issue. The only super-hard part is the last big battle and there is definitely a checkpoint right before that. Yeah, the actual save spots seem to be pretty far apart, but those aren't the same as the checkpoints. I remember dying randomly a few times and always being right back where I was when I died - no progress was ever lost.

Or are you just talking about having to quit playing and not having hit a save point yet? I guess that would be annoying (especially since the first Bioshock let you save any time) - but I would never even bother firing up a game like this if I only had 20 minutes to play anyway so I usually passed many, many save points in a given game session. Plus, it seemed like it was autosaving pretty frequently as well.
 
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