CAGcast #325: One Is the Loneliest Number

I though the XboxOne conference was okay, not great, not good, but not bad either, and i think it was better then the PS4 conf.

I turn my Xbox360 on every day, but I game only 3 days (maybe) a week because I now use my 360 more as a media devise then a gaming machine. We spend enough time using my xbox to watch Netflix, HBOgo, ESPN, Crunchyroll, Amazon, YouTube, etc I was able to justify buying a 2nd 360. If the XboxOne turns out to be as fast as the demo showed I can see us again buying multiple consoles down the road for media management alone.

But I did not see an IR sensor so if I cannot use a standard remote to control all the functions it will be a huge step back for the XboxOne.

On the Fantasy Football stuff I think the tie in with the NFL will get you access to the NFL Network & Redzone if you are currently a subscriber similar to the way HBOgo works. The Fantasy player stats will probably be populated from NFL.com’s fantasy site, but might give you the option to log in via ESPN.com and other popular web sites.

I can understand not supporting backward compatibility with 360 games, but losing all my XBLA game is a killer. If there is not a solution to bring over those games I downloaded I will never by a thing from the Xbox store again. I will strictly by downloadable games and movies/tv from Steam and itunes.
 
I totally agree with Cheapy's take on the One. I was honestly pretty surprised to see how much some people/web outlets dislike it already. I work at a high school and I watched the announcement live with a group of teachers and students. There was a pretty good mix of casual and hardcore gamers probably slanted more toward casual and everyone there left extremely excited about what was shown. None of them were especially xbox-centric so it wasn't like a bunch of fanboys waiting to gush (in fact most were in the room for an unrelated pizza party). It wasn't until I started looking at the blogs etc that I saw anything that resembled negativity.

Also, maybe I am not reading the right things but haven't I seem much about the skype/NFL stuff? In my opinion that is going to be huge for the average gamer.

Good show, as usual. And I chuckled every time you mentioned BatShip industries.
 
[quote name='Javery']The way used games work is a huge deal for me - I buy most of my stuff used from GameFly because I don't need to play the newest games right at launch. I also have a few friends that I regularly trade games with to cut down costs (one recent trade was Tomb Raider for Bioshock Infinite). We both get to take our time and play both in succession for 1/2 the price. If they really make you pay full price (or really anything over $15-$20) for a license I will just play a ton less games. I don't understand how they could possibly think that if they block me from paying $10 for something used that all of a sudden I'll be willing to spend $60.

I'm also worried about the "always online" requirement (which is effectively what pinging their servers every 24 hours means). What happens in 10 years when the servers are no longer being maintained? I can't play my games any more? That is insane.

I do not like where the industry is headed at all.[/QUOTE]

These are my concerns as well. Not to mention for my friends who are stationed overseas or at sea without internet at all. I can't send them a care package of my old games if they require an internet connection to play them.

I also don't like the required Kinect as a separate peripheral. Another thing that could potentially break, not in my gaming room but my sister has some destructive children. Don't get my started how they are going to be messing with each other with the whole "Xbox TV, Xbox Game" bit. I hope you can disable it for her sake. Two kids fighting over a TV can be disastrous, and she has five of them.

I'm going to wait and see about this mess before I decide to finalize my conclusions but as it stands it does not look good for the Xbox One for me.
 
Cheapy, what happens in 10-15 years when I want to play a Xbox One game and Microsoft has already pulled the servers?

Are all my Xbox One games perishable items? This is the future of gaming?
 
[quote name='ninju D']I totally agree with Cheapy's take on the One. I was honestly pretty surprised to see how much some people/web outlets dislike it already. I work at a high school and I watched the announcement live with a group of teachers and students. There was a pretty good mix of casual and hardcore gamers probably slanted more toward casual and everyone there left extremely excited about what was shown. None of them were especially xbox-centric so it wasn't like a bunch of fanboys waiting to gush (in fact most were in the room for an unrelated pizza party). It wasn't until I started looking at the blogs etc that I saw anything that resembled negativity.

Also, maybe I am not reading the right things but haven't I seem much about the skype/NFL stuff? In my opinion that is going to be huge for the average gamer.

Good show, as usual. And I chuckled every time you mentioned BatShip industries.[/QUOTE]

Well, the announcement pretty much only talked about tv, sports and cod, the negativity is from neglecting to talk about games and the after-announcement interviews/twitter talk, where they gave conflicting statements on used games and the always calling home stuff. All the bad stuff was discussed seperately from the video.
 
How is Skype and NFL huge for the average gamer?

It's interesting how certain people can watch a console reveal where not a single game is shown running in real time and not even bat an eyelid.
 
[quote name='ZombieJeebus']Listening to the 'cast now...

re: NFL/sports stuff for XB1

It was revealed yesterday that MS is paying the NFL 400 million over FIVE years. 80 mill a year....yeah that stuff isn't gonna be free.[/QUOTE]

I think they want the NFL to use Surface tablets on the field and what not. Probably why it is that much. Expect Microsoft ads in abundance during NFL games.
 
XB1 is kind of what Microsoft has been building towards the entire time they've been in the gaming business. It was their end goal from the beginning.

Every HD console so far has lost between 3 and 5 BILLION dollars, so a shift in strategy really couldnt be much worse. Its worth a shot anyway, since we're not exactly going to bend the development cost curve that has cratered so many developers over the last cycle.

With all that power and online infrastructure on deck - you'd be leaving a lot of money on the table if you DIDNT have all this other stuff available.
 
They did say the external drive would be able to do everything the internal could. If that holds true, that's awesome. I would totally buy a cheap SSD and use it for game installs
 
Oh man, finally. Someone identified the challenge we have in my household with the Kinect and identical twins.

As a parent of 11 year old twin boys, kinect causes more fights with profile switching than arguments on which games to play. It constantly switches which kid is signed in, really annoying. I have to admit that one of my first thoughts with the XBOne was that I hope that's fixed for Kinect 2.0.

Totally agree w Cheapy that PS4 and One will have the same (or similar) used game protection.

At the end of the day, we are moving in the direction of full digital distribution and always on. Neither bother me, though the idea of a digital trade in program definitely intrigues me.

Keep up the entertaining show.
 
Once I buy a game I own that damn game (disc) ...and I'll play it when I want, and I'll choose who else gets to play it.
 
[quote name='halvorsb']Oh man, finally. Someone identified the challenge we have in my household with the Kinect and identical twins.

As a parent of 11 year old twin boys, kinect causes more fights with profile switching than arguments on which games to play. It constantly switches which kid is signed in, really annoying. I have to admit that one of my first thoughts with the XBOne was that I hope that's fixed for Kinect 2.0.
.[/QUOTE]


Looks like you'll have to choose which one to keep. I think I'd make them play Street Fighter for it. No sense keeping a kid who can't even Hadokun.
 
Why do people think XBLA games could be compatible if other games aren't? It's all software that runs on the same OS.
 
[quote name='ramatut4001']Why do people think XBLA games could be compatible if other games aren't? It's all software that runs on the same OS.[/QUOTE]
Because about every other thing besides consoles where you digitally download software lets you take that software with you when you upgrade.
 
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[quote name='itachiitachi']Because about every other besides consoles where you digitally download software lets you take that software with you when you upgrade.[/QUOTE]

I get what you're saying, but there is no precedent for consoles where digital media has carried over.

There is a rumor that MS is making a 360 mini that will piggy back your XB1 and allow your 360 content to work.
 
Actually, based on the official specs that we know, it's very easy to conclude that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbone. We know it has a better GPU and we know the speed advantages of GDDR5 compared to GDDR3.
 
[quote name='ZombieJeebus']I get what you're saying, but there is no precedent for consoles where digital media has carried over.
[/QUOTE]
It's the industry standard for technology to let you transfer digital content.
Why would consoles be an exception?(from a consumer expectation standpoint)

In fact every major console with digital content, that has had a successor released so far has let you transfer the digital content over. 3ds,vita, and WiiU all let you transfer data digital content from their predecessors.
The PS4 and XB1 will be breaking the precedent of the tech industry and of the gaming industry.
 
I guess when you spend a few billion dollars developing your console you get to make your own rules.

DirecTV won't let me copy content if you upgrade your box, if you want a left field example of digital media not carrying over.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Actually, based on the official specs that we know, it's very easy to conclude that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbone. We know it has a better GPU and we know the speed advantages of GDDR5 compared to GDDR3.[/QUOTE]

#1 reason for me PS4 is in the lead for my money. It is almost inconceivable that 3rd party games won't run better on PS4. Exclusive titles will be untouchable.


MS is spouting crazy talk that their cloud power is going to make up the difference.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']It's the industry standard for technology to let you transfer digital content. [/quote]

Why is digital media for a console so different than regular media? Regular media (i.e. games, that's what we're really talking about here) doesn't carry-over for the most part. I couldn't play NES games on my Super NES, or Super NES games on my N64, or N64 games on my Gamecube, or PS2 games on my PS3 (unless you got an original one), etc. Yes, PS2 could play PS1 games, and that was the exception. If there's any industry standard (talking about the video game industry here), it's for non-backwards compatibility. Suddenly everyone expects their games to be playable on the next-gen machine?
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']It's the industry standard for technology to let you transfer digital content.
Why would consoles be an exception?(from a consumer expectation standpoint)

In fact every major console with digital content, that has had a successor released so far has let you transfer the digital content over. 3ds,vita, and WiiU all let you transfer data digital content from their predecessors.
The PS4 and XB1 will be breaking the precedent of the tech industry and of the gaming industry.[/QUOTE]

Yeah. I agree. I wish it was all compatible. I'm not defending it. I'm just saying digital content and disc content are programs coded in the same language. If one works the other will and vice-versa. I hear a lot of people seperate them when talking about both consoles.
 
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Actually, based on the official specs that we know, it's very easy to conclude that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbone. We know it has a better GPU and we know the speed advantages of GDDR5 compared to GDDR3.[/QUOTE]

I just got up to the part where Cheapy and Shipwreck said that anyone who can tell you which system is better at this point "is a liar, is a fanboy".

Actually, all you need to be is someone who knows that GDDR5 RAM is much faster than DDR3 RAM, and who has read the Digital Foundry article which states that PlayStation 4's 18 CU graphics core has 50 per cent more raw power than the GPU in the new Microsoft console. The Xbox One's architecture is also more complicated than the PS4's setup because of the 32 MB of ESRAM they added to try and alleviate the slowness of the DDR3 RAM.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one

Anyone who still thinks the new consoles are the same technically, is either ignorant, or a fanboy, or both.
 
[quote name='Backlash']Why is digital media for a console so different than regular media? Regular media (i.e. games, that's what we're really talking about here) doesn't carry-over for the most part. I couldn't play NES games on my Super NES, or Super NES games on my N64, or N64 games on my Gamecube, or PS2 games on my PS3 (unless you got an original one), etc. Yes, PS2 could play PS1 games, and that was the exception. If there's any industry standard (talking about the video game industry here), it's for non-backwards compatibility. Suddenly everyone expects their games to be playable on the next-gen machine?[/QUOTE]

I won't even get into the (HUGE) difference between a physical copy and a digital copy of the same game but imagine if Apple released a new iPod and said you can buy new music for our new device but sorry all those songs and movies you previously bought will not work. Sure, you could always use your old iPod to listen to those old songs but once that breaks (which it inevitably will) you are out of luck.

I can't believe people are OK with this line of thinking. There is no difference between a song, a movie or any digital content when you boil it down. As a consumer I don't give a shit about "different architecture" and other behind the scenes nonsense - just make it work.
 
[quote name='Javery']I won't even get into the (HUGE) difference between a physical copy and a digital copy of the same game but imagine if Apple released a new iPod and said you can buy new music for our new device but sorry all those songs and movies you previously bought will not work. Sure, you could always use your old iPod to listen to those old songs but once that breaks (which it inevitably will) you are out of luck.

I can't believe people are OK with this line of thinking. There is no difference between a song, a movie or any digital content when you boil it down. As a consumer I don't give a shit about "different architecture" and other behind the scenes nonsense - just make it work.[/QUOTE]

I thought we were talking about the game industry, not the music industry? Also, what is the HUGE difference between digital and physical media? It's the exact same bits. You just mean one is easier to copy?

My point was mainly that everyone was fine with this for over two decades (and thus it is the standard), but suddenly everyone is in an uproar about backwards compatibility just recently.

Edit: You analogy for Apple is bad because the song is the exact same. Apple is just letting you store more of them on the device and making the device smaller, or whatever. If you wanted much better songs or the actual content of the media encoding changed, then you wouldn't be able to play them on the new iPod. You're trying to compare apples to oranges, as they say.
 
[quote name='Javery']
I can't believe people are OK with this line of thinking. There is no difference between a song, a movie or any digital content when you boil it down. As a consumer I don't give a shit about "different architecture" and other behind the scenes nonsense - just make it work.[/QUOTE]

MS does see a difference, because movies and music will carry over.


They think you will buy it again if they offer a means. Whether is is Gakai, xbox mini or a super HD remake...who knows at this point.

Nothing is set in stone with game consoles. Stop expecting something to happen in this medium just because of something from the past.

Games get more expensive to make, games get shorter. We learn to live with games going from 40 hours in length to 12 and then to 8 or even 6. Content gets monetized into ever smaller and smaller pieces, and we buy it.

The only thing we can accept as a constant is that the industry is big enough now that it is overrun with marketers and ad people whose sole job is to extract every conceivable cent from every possible source.
 
[quote name='Backlash']Why is digital media for a console so different than regular media? Regular media (i.e. games, that's what we're really talking about here) doesn't carry-over for the most part. I couldn't play NES games on my Super NES, or Super NES games on my N64, or N64 games on my Gamecube, or PS2 games on my PS3 (unless you got an original one), etc. Yes, PS2 could play PS1 games, and that was the exception. If there's any industry standard (talking about the video game industry here), it's for non-backwards compatibility. Suddenly everyone expects their games to be playable on the next-gen machine?[/QUOTE]
You can sell, trade gift your nes snes, ps2, ect... games, you can't do that with your digital media.

@zombie Jeebus, you are recording content with your cable box, not purchasing it.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']
@zombie Jeebus, you are recording content with your cable box, not purchasing it.[/QUOTE]

Maybe so but if I use the entitled gamer line of thinking I am paying X dollars per month to my provider and so I expect it to just work. :wink
 
I've been an on and off listener since the very first episode and you guys are great.

As for constructive criticism: I think Shipwreck is kind of dry and humorless. He needs to loosen up. He may play the most games, but I get bored hearing his rundown of each title. I hate to criticize him because I do prefer having three "casters." I guess it beats awkward silence between Wombat and CheapyD's antics.

Thanks to all three of you for making an hour+ of my work week less boring.
 
Ship's exasperated patience with Wombat as he "explained to the engineer how something works" was the funniest thing in the 'cast tho.
 
[quote name='Backlash']I thought we were talking about the game industry, not the music industry? Also, what is the HUGE difference between digital and physical media? It's the exact same bits. You just mean one is easier to copy?[/QUOTE]

The HUGE difference is the DRM. With digital content, you have a lot less control over your ability to access that content in the future. That's why backwards compatibility is more important now and the fact that they aren't concerned with it does not make one feel secure in building a digital library of games.
 
[quote name='Backlash']I thought we were talking about the game industry, not the music industry? Also, what is the HUGE difference between digital and physical media? It's the exact same bits. You just mean one is easier to copy?[/QUOTE]

Consumers have control over physical media. With digital media it is out of our hands. I expect that when I purchase something I can do whatever I want with it. The whole "it's just a license" thing is BS thought up by greedy corporations and their asshole lawyers in order to take advantage of their customers. I don't really care about the backwards compatibility thing since I rarely go back and play a game once I'm finished (although I do think they should just make it work - there has to be a simple fix). It probably means I'll just be buying WAY less games since I don't really own them anymore. The times are changing and I'm just a bitter old man.
 
I'm shocked nobody made the joke about Major Nelson's tweet after the PS4 conference:

"Announcing a console without showing it? That's one approach..."

Nothing? Shame on you...I had to go to the Player One Podcast to hear the joke I was waiting for about "Announcing a game console without showing games? That's one approach..."
 
[quote name='Curufinwe']I just got up to the part where Cheapy and Shipwreck said that anyone who can tell you which system is better at this point "is a liar, is a fanboy".

Actually, all you need to be is someone who knows that GDDR5 RAM is much faster than DDR3 RAM, and who has read the Digital Foundry article which states that PlayStation 4's 18 CU graphics core has 50 per cent more raw power than the GPU in the new Microsoft console. The Xbox One's architecture is also more complicated than the PS4's setup because of the 32 MB of ESRAM they added to try and alleviate the slowness of the DDR3 RAM.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-spec-analysis-xbox-one

Anyone who still thinks the new consoles are the same technically, is either ignorant, or a fanboy, or both.[/QUOTE]

The conversation about which is better gets a little muddled when it comes to latency. Can't seem to find the article but GDDR3 has much lower latency than GDDR5 which is why most PCs, even if they have GDDR5, offload all the physics and world calculations to GDDR3 where latency is more important. Graphically though is where GDDR5 shines.
 
[quote name='Javery']Consumers have control over physical media. With digital media it is out of our hands. I expect that when I purchase something I can do whatever I want with it. The whole "it's just a license" thing is BS thought up by greedy corporations and their asshole lawyers in order to take advantage of their customers. I don't really care about the backwards compatibility thing since I rarely go back and play a game once I'm finished (although I do think they should just make it work - there has to be a simple fix). It probably means I'll just be buying WAY less games since I don't really own them anymore. The times are changing and I'm just a bitter old man.[/QUOTE]

A lot of gamers have Stockholm syndrome. They worship the altar of the gaming industry.

I'm with you 100% on buying less games if they are tied to hardware (which will break). With MP3s and FLAC at least you can move them from computer to computer.
 
Being in a household with three 360's, the licensing of games and DLC sucks. DL on one for all, but DL on a second for one and the third gets screwed. If I have to buy multiple copies of a game for my kids and I to play, I'll be seriously considering no more xbox.
 
Wombat's point about front-end/back-end made sense to me...

For the Xbox One to ever be backwards compatible with XBOX 360 game discs, it would probably have to be something that is built-in to the hardware/console itself and how it reads those discs, thus making it unlikely that something like that would ever happen since it would require a new system (a frontend change)

But for the Xbox One to be backwards compatible with XBLA/downloadable games, it could probably do that via a system updates that allows previously purchased games to be streamed on your system without any changes to the hardware itself, similar to what Sony is planning with the PS4 (a backend change)
 
[quote name='shajek']Being in a household with three 360's, the licensing of games and DLC sucks. DL on one for all, but DL on a second for one and the third gets screwed. If I have to buy multiple copies of a game for my kids and I to play, I'll be seriously considering no more xbox.[/QUOTE]

You won't have to. You will have to use the same account to get it on all 3 consoles though.

I'm betting they are going to change up accounts a little, and XB1 will have a "master" account for this type of thing. Then your kids can have sub accounts so they still get all the personalizations and stuff.
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I'm with you 100% on buying less games if they are tied to hardware (which will break). With MP3s and FLAC at least you can move them from computer to computer.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Other digital content can be moved from device to device with little or no trouble but not video games. Even PC games who people keep saying you can't trade in, etc. could work on future computers because they are open systems as opposed to a console.

[quote name='bardiya27']Wombat's point about front-end/back-end made sense to me...

For the Xbox One to ever be backwards compatible with XBOX 360 game discs, it would probably have to be something that is built-in to the hardware/console itself and how it reads those discs, thus making it unlikely that something like that would ever happen since it would require a new system (a frontend change)

But for the Xbox One to be backwards compatible with XBLA/downloadable games, it could probably do that via a system updates that allows previously purchased games to be streamed on your system without any changes to the hardware itself, similar to what Sony is planning with the PS4 (a backend change)[/QUOTE]

I think people are OK with the 360 discs not working - I don't have an expectation of backwards compatibility in that regard but I agree that MS could (and should) do something on the back end to handle previous XBLA purchases.
 
[quote name='Javery']Consumers have control over physical media. With digital media it is out of our hands. I expect that when I purchase something I can do whatever I want with it. The whole "it's just a license" thing is BS thought up by greedy corporations and their asshole lawyers in order to take advantage of their customers. I don't really care about the backwards compatibility thing since I rarely go back and play a game once I'm finished (although I do think they should just make it work - there has to be a simple fix). It probably means I'll just be buying WAY less games since I don't really own them anymore. The times are changing and I'm just a bitter old man.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough - as long as you're talking about redistribution issues (selling, loaning to a friend, etc). It seemed like everyone was talking about backwards compatibility when I joined this conversation, though.

[quote name='Javery']I think people are OK with the 360 discs not working - I don't have an expectation of backwards compatibility in that regard but I agree that MS could (and should) do something on the back end to handle previous XBLA purchases.[/QUOTE]

That's just it - there is zero difference in this regard. If one works, the other works. Why would you think they are different as far as the game code?
 
[quote name='Javery']Exactly. Other digital content can be moved from device to device with little or no trouble but not video games. Even PC games who people keep saying you can't trade in, etc. could work on future computers because they are open systems as opposed to a console.



I think people are OK with the 360 discs not working - I don't have an expectation of backwards compatibility in that regard but I agree that MS could (and should) do something on the back end to handle previous XBLA purchases.[/QUOTE]

The problem with XBLA/I games are that they are still built on the same old architecture. If MS wanted to run any of these titles on an x86-based system they would have to emulate or stream them over the internet much like the PS4 will do with their Gaikai tech.

I'm sure it has been mentioned before in this tread so forgive me if I am repeating someone else's statement. Lol I didn't take the time to read the whole thing, it's pretty clear most CAG's and hardcore gamers are pretty unimpressed with Xbox1.
 
Comparing Siri to Kinect seems like apples to oranges to me. Maybe I'm wrong but aren't Kinect's voice commands built around a pre-defined set of user commands? i.e. "watch tv," "play game," "bing yourself." Siri tries to interpret anything you say. Vastly different ways the products handle things.

[quote name='Milkyman']Well, the announcement pretty much only talked about tv, sports and cod, the negativity is from neglecting to talk about games and the after-announcement interviews/twitter talk, where they gave conflicting statements on used games and the always calling home stuff. All the bad stuff was discussed seperately from the video.[/QUOTE]

Correct. The conference wasn't that bad. I liked it. It was all the negative rumors leading up to the conference seemingly coming true after the conference.

[quote name='halvorsb']Oh man, finally. Someone identified the challenge we have in my household with the Kinect and identical twins. [/QUOTE]

Make one grow a beard. ;)

[quote name='Backlash']Why is digital media for a console so different than regular media? Regular media (i.e. games, that's what we're really talking about here) doesn't carry-over for the most part. I couldn't play NES games on my Super NES, or Super NES games on my N64, or N64 games on my Gamecube, or PS2 games on my PS3 (unless you got an original one), etc. Yes, PS2 could play PS1 games, and that was the exception. If there's any industry standard (talking about the video game industry here), it's for non-backwards compatibility. Suddenly everyone expects their games to be playable on the next-gen machine?[/QUOTE]

Selective memory. The Genesis had back-compat with an extra device. The Wii played GCN games. The WiiU, Wii games. PS2 and PS3 were both back compatible. Xbox 360 even had mostly back-compat. Someone else broke down the ones that let you transfer digital content.

[quote name='Javery']I won't even get into the (HUGE) difference between a physical copy and a digital copy of the same game but imagine if Apple released a new iPod and said you can buy new music for our new device but sorry all those songs and movies you previously bought will not work. Sure, you could always use your old iPod to listen to those old songs but once that breaks (which it inevitably will) you are out of luck.

I can't believe people are OK with this line of thinking. There is no difference between a song, a movie or any digital content when you boil it down. As a consumer I don't give a shit about "different architecture" and other behind the scenes nonsense - just make it work.[/QUOTE]

Amen. Preach it brother. I love the "it's a different architecture" argument. So what, why not build the console around the old architecture?

[quote name='ZombieJeebus']Maybe so but if I use the entitled gamer line of thinking I am paying X dollars per month to my provider and so I expect it to just work. :wink[/QUOTE]

You're comparing a service to a product.

[quote name='4thHorseman']
Nothing? Shame on you...I had to go to the Player One Podcast to hear the joke I was waiting for about "Announcing a game console without showing games? That's one approach..."[/QUOTE]

Selective memory here as well. Quantum Break, Madden, NBA, UFC, Fifa, CoD. They may not be games you like but that is a half dozen games during a conference where they clearly said they weren't going to focus on games.
 
The moral is don't buy games expecting that someone will port your game for free to every new piece of hardware that comes along.
 
The new consoles want to integrate PC features (DRM) without the PC benefits (backwards compatibility of digital games).

The advantage console gaming has over PC is the absence of DRM on physical and digital media.

When you take that away the PC is a much better value to the consumer and it really is unacceptable that digital items are not BC. When my PC can play games I've purchased from multiple generations, my new $500 DRM ridden "game console" should do the same.

I don't understand how people can support this bullshit. Are exclusive games and a controller that important to you?
 
Okay, I get the lack of XBLA support because the games are created to utilize the PowerPC processor and it’s a huge change from the x86 processor. I also get what they are trying to do with DRM and the whole ‘you are buying the license’ argument. So when I bought the license to say Castle Crashers on XBLA and it was tied to my XBL account\, shouldn’t that mean if they put out Castle Crashers on XBL1A/Marketplace I still own the license and should be entitled to download the game without an additional fee? How does it work one way but not the other?
 
[quote name='trip1eX']The moral is don't buy games expecting that someone will port your game for free to every new piece of hardware that comes along.[/QUOTE]

How about eliminating the need to port it in the first place and just use the same software to make it work? Do we honestly think that the almightly Microsoft and its advanced technology couldn't provide some type of back-end or cloud based service where I can stream the games that I already own on whatever system they release and the next one after that and the next one after that, etc.? They are claiming the Xbox One will be the one stop destination for all of my entertainment needs - TV, movies, music, sports, handjobs, etc. but they can't provide access to the things I've ALREADY PURCHASED FROM THEM?? The whole thing sucks.
 
There is a collision of two worlds here, the collision of games as a physical product and games as a service. In the physical product world of old, you bought a game that worked on a box. Users wanted backward compatibility in the next round, but it was a feature on the next box and not necessarily a foregone conclusion. We are making the slow transition to games as a service, a transition that is dragging a lot of gamers kicking and screaming, and a lot of that reluctance comes from the mixed messages they are receiving on how things will be handled going forward. We are still in that awkward transition state of keeping with the old games as a product mentality (new console box with new architecture, physical products, retail stores, etc.) but trying to bolt on games as a service features (account based, downloadable content, microtransactions, added functionality through updates and DLC, etc.). I think the difference people are seeing in backward compatibility of downloadable media vs physical media is that difference in perception of buying a tangible physical item, and buying access to a product through an account. The physical media makes sense to tie to a machine, the account based media doesn’t feel as if it makes as much sense to tie to a physical machine. So far we have heard all of the negatives of an account based system (even if only in rumors), no used games, always online, etc. with none of the positives one of which is backward compatibility because the actual machine no longer matters. People want to hear something to the effect that these companies are thinking of the consumer in this transition.

Steam, which is form of hated DRM, DRM being something that pc gamers loather, eventually won over the majority of pc gamers because the account based solution was consumer friendly, you could play your games anywhere on any pc as long as you are logged in and and you never lose your library when changing machines. They also won people over by making games cheap, which everybody knows isn’t in the plans on a closed platform like psn or xbox live.

The reactions to mixed messaging can be plainly seen in the reactions to the XBOX One announcement, which brought up more questions than answers. You guys mentioned on the show that they are holding their cards until they are ready to reveal the marketing message at E3 or later, but I think they are letting the conversation get away from them. Holding on to the message is one thing when the rumors and speculation are just idle chatter, it’s another when you’ve let the rumors and speculation overshadow your message. Just today I heard a friend (not a hardcore game, but definitely interested in the next gen consoles) mention that the XBOX One won’t play used games to a group of us, Including me (the gamer), and a bunch of other non-gamers. The reaction was not good. I don’t think Microsoft wants their message to be controlled by rumors are mixed messages.

Also it’s been great to hear Cheapy’s slow transition to the dark side over the past year, building a pc, buying most games on the pc, then finally culminating this episode with mentioning that he has been playing Bioshock Infinite (I think) with mouse and keyboard.
 
[quote name='Corvin']
Selective memory here as well. Quantum Break, Madden, NBA, UFC, Fifa, CoD. They may not be games you like but that is a half dozen games during a conference where they clearly said they weren't going to focus on games.[/QUOTE]

Showing trailers for games are not the same as showing games.

Had they shown actual gameplay, that would be a different story.
 
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